She's Reading Smut Instead of Having Sex with You — Here's Why

She's not hiding her book because she's embarrassed. She's hiding it because what she's reading is giving her something her sex life isn't — and nobody's asking what that means for your relationship.

Romance is the fastest-growing category in print. 51 million units sold in the last year. One in four NYT hardcover fiction bestsellers was romantasy. Women aren't casually reading this stuff. They're consuming it. Today I sat down with Carolyn Hood — certified sex therapist, licensed clinical social worker, and author of Sex Begets Sex: Reclaiming Desire as an Act of Female Empowerment — to decode exactly what's going on.

In this episode:

• What dark romance, romantasy, and smut are actually giving her that real life isn't
• Who's reading it — and why the numbers point straight to moms and long-term partners
• The porn parallel nobody wants to say out loud (but we say it)
• How to use her book to open a conversation you've both been avoiding
• Why innuendo and anticipation are the low-effort moves with the highest return
• 3 things you can do tonight to bring the heat from the pages into your bedroom

 🔗 Find Carolyn: https://www.desireinreallife.com @desireinreallife 

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Transcript

Welcome And The New Show Name

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Do the sex. I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast formerly known as Locker Room Talk and Shots. The show has a new name, Talk Sex with Annette. But at its core, this is still your locker room. It's where we strip away shame, get curious, and speak the unspoken about sex, kink dating, pleasure, and desire. Around here, nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chat, our most trusted friends, and of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest, and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. Welcome to my podcast where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Let's talk about sex. Cheers. Today's talk sex with Annette topic is why she's reading smut instead of having sex with you. She is on her phone again, or her Kindle, or that paperback she's been tearing through all week with a bent spine and the bookmark she will not let you see. She's reading dark romance, romantic, smut, whatever you want to call it. And she's not hiding it because she's embarrassed. She's hiding it because what she's reading is giving her something that her actual sex life isn't, and she doesn't know how to say it out loud. This is not a shaming episode. I'm not here to make anyone feel bad about what they're reading or not reading.

Why She Chooses Smut

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I'm here because romance is the fastest growing category in the entire print book market right now. Million units sold in the last 12 months. One in four New York Times hardcover fiction bestsellers last year was romantic. Women aren't casually reading this stuff, they are consuming it. And the question that nobody is asking is what is she so hungry for? And what can our partner actually do about it? That's what today's episode is about. A roadmap. What dark romance is actually giving her, what's missing in the bedroom that's sending her to the book, and how her partner can use that information to close the gap. My guest today is Carolyn Hood. She is a certified sex therapist, licensed clinical social worker, and author of the forthcoming book, Sex Begets Sex: Reclaiming Desire as an Act of Female Empowerment. She holds a psychology degree from Columbia, a master's in social work from USC, and an executive leadership certificate from Harvard. She has spent 25 years working at the intersection of relationships, trauma, and identity. She's also a mother of three living in Sydney, and she's navigating long-term partnership, midlife, and her own desire in real time. She's not just a clinician, she is the woman living at Caroline. Welcome to Talk Sex with Annette. Now, before we dive in and before I hand the mic over to her, I have to remind you that I'm over on OnlyFans, and there I'm sharing my sex and intimacy, how-tos, audio guided, self-pleasure meditations,

Meet Sex Therapist Carolyn Hood

SPEAKER_00 3:10

and so much more. You can find me there with my handle at Talk. I'm also on Substack doing a whole lot of the same. You can find me there with my handle at Talk. And you can find both Caroline and I wherever you want to find us when you scroll down to the notes below, and you're gonna see our links there. But for now, Caroline, can you tell me and my listeners a little bit more about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

That was such a nice introduction, and I'm so excited for this conversation and to be here. You encapsulated things really well. I think additionally, what I try to bring to the table that I don't see a lot in conversation is the duality of being a parent and somebody writing about desire and a and a clinician. Often you're only a clinician speaking from this research mindset, or you're not really experiencing the realities that I think so many women are facing in their day-to-day life. So I'm just happy to bridge those two and just sure have some clinical backing, but but really just speak from the reality and two girlfriends chatting and having those conversations that people want to have, but don't really feel like they have the space to have.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

That's that's perfect because I am betting, and we'll talk about this when we get started, that there are a lot of moms out there that are the ones reading the romanticism and dark romance. I when we drill down into who the readers are, listeners, here's why you're gonna want to stay to the end. This isn't just about why she's reading it, it's about what you can do to start bringing those elements into your bedroom and getting some of that fun with her, maybe even using those books as some fuel, if you will, to get her juiced up for what you're going to bring into the bedroom. I'm not the expert in this area, so Caroline is going to help us figure that out. We're gonna draw that roadmap for you. And by the end of this episode, we are gonna leave you with takeaways, things you can start doing tonight, as soon as this podcast is over with, to reignite the passion in the bedroom, maybe using her favorite novel, right? So I'm ready. There you go. Let's talk about SMET. I can always cheers to SMUT with cheers. Cheers. Right. First of all, this is purely to quench my my curiosity, but can you tell me maybe the difference between dark romance, romantic, and just romance? Because I do know there are at least with the dark romance, there are some small, perhaps important differences.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah, I mean, I think it there's all these different categories, right, that have really grown immensely over the past few years and are just growing and

Dark Romance And Romantasy Explained

SPEAKER_01 6:05

growing. But at a high level, they all are this romance-based, how how explicitly sexual it gets, right? That lives on the spectrum. So this isn't erotica. These are still books that you could buy in the quote, normal or traditional bookstore. And the romanticy is is often this bringing together of the romance and and fantasy. So it's often involving fairies or other sort of otherworldly creatures, right? Or otherworldly just universes or other things like that. So it brings in that kind of that fantasy element of outside the the norm. Romance is more of your traditional sort of two people meet and they they have a mute key, cute, and they fall in love, and it tends to be a little bit more PG. And then the dark romance often is veering closer to the erotica and may involve some other elements that get us closer to kink or other things that are a little bit more explicit in nature, but but they're all sort of under this under this big umbrella of romance.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Where does 52 shades fall into this? Just to give my listeners, since everybody knows 52 shades. I think, look, I even read the books and watched the movies just to get it.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Just to understand. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that gosh, and that's gosh, it's 20 years old now, is it not? I mean, it's that can be. There is no need for that. Anyway, that came out a long time ago, and I think hit it shocked people. It was really this beginning of, oh my gosh, why are women consuming this? I think people thought maybe men would consume it more, but women were really eating it up, reading the books, watching the movies. That sort of took that took romance and added the edge. There was this, this a little bit of a light dom situation going on. I think, God, it's been years, the sort of boss relationship, right? And this kind of hierarchy and status. So, so that doesn't have any of the fantasy elements. There's nothing about that that's otherworldly. But I think it really came on the scene and shocked people about probably people thought it was going to be the sort of niche, maybe cult favorite of some variety, and it just hit the mainstream. And I think that really spurred this understanding of oh, there's a big audience for this material. There's a huge audience of women for this material that that was just really, I mean, from a from a from a marketing standpoint, this untapped market of buyers and consumers that I think nobody even really considered had this desire for this material. I mean, and it and then it launched all of this stuff that's just been coming in waves.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

So dark dark romance, to be clear, has darker themes to it, right? Meaning maybe some problematic male behavior that also leads to the turn-on. That's my understanding. It's it gives women a place to dip into their dark turn-ons that are fine in fantasy, but you definitely don't want to have show up in your real life scenario. I guess that's a question. What do these types of books provide for her physically that she's not getting in real life?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yeah, I think so. I think there's this one is there's a really hopeful message here, which is that I think so many people get into later stages of life and midlife, mothers who are caregiving and just inundated with so much, or people who are in long-term relationships that feel kind of stale. I think the message we can glean from from this huge consumption is oh, that desire is still really alive. It's really a well, it's it's alive and well, it's there, but it's it's not happening in reality. So people and women are seeking it in these other venues. And now there's there's a place for it. 20 years ago, there wasn't a place for it. So there wasn't even the conversation. Now, with all of these books, there's a place for women to get that need met. And I think what we're seeing is both from an emotional kind of psychological standpoint, there's this escapism to this place of, oh my gosh, I don't have this in reality. And then, yeah, as you said, physically, reading material like this can be very much a turn on. And it can be, it can be fuel for your own enjoyment or enjoyment with a partner, but they're getting things that aren't happening in the day-to-day grind of their lives, because I think so many women have deprioritized their own pleasure in service of their children, their jobs, their partner, just life. And now they're finding this little piece that they can plug back into. And it's it's just blossoming and it's ballooning, ballooning, and people are having so much fun with it.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

So before we get too far down the road of this conversation, I want to circle back to something that we talked about before we did our little cheers, which is who exactly are the women who are buying these books? Do we have a demographic? Do we have a profile, if you will? Are we looking at an age range? Are we looking at an occupation type?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I don't have all, I don't have all that data, right? I haven't looked at all that sales data, but I think I certainly know anecdotally and from conversations that there is this group of women mid-30s up who don't have the active sex life that they want. Many of them mothers, they look back in retrospect and see in hindsight, oh, in their 20s, they had their even late teens, they had this amazing sex life. So I think there's this dominant market of people who once had the sex life they dreamed of and now they don't. And they're finding this and they're just grabbing onto it.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Right. Because a lot of women, especially in that age range, if if you have children, even if you don't, but many of us do, there we we become desexualized in society's eyes, right? The minute you become a mom, yes, to become mom is by banging, folks. But the minute you become a mom, you're not sexual, you're not sexy. And as much as society is looks at you and treats you that way, I mean, from the standpoint of even the clothes, the clothes that that start being sold to you in the stores to women, it's pretty crazy to see what happens from the clothes they're selling to 20-year-olds and then 30 or misses. It's holy, yes. I think I've ever shopped in a missus section before. And and I mean that really gets internalized. And there is that feeling inside yourself of, oh, that's not I'm a mom now. I'm I'm not sexual. I'm not, I shouldn't even think about that stuff. So the books give you a whole world

Motherhood And The Loss Of Sexy

SPEAKER_00 13:35

to live out this ulterior reality in.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah. I mean, I think I think it is so ingrained over so many sort of cultural messages, whether it's religion or other cultural norms that say there's this identity marker. And before you become a parent or become a mother, you are a sexual being. You are supposed to procreate. You're supposed to, I think, be sexy, but not be a sexual agent. I think those two are distinct. You're supposed to be sexy to others, but not actually own and embrace your sexual identity and agency. And then certainly when you become mothers, that shuts off. And you are the archetype of selfless mom and this person that thinks no longer about themselves at all and only in service, and therefore, therefore, anything about their own sexual appetite and sexual desire is immoral, is bad, is is unacceptable. And we, yes, we see that in in clothing, we see that in media, we see that in all the messaging. And and women are just, I think, also, we're just fed these messages that our body has changed and therefore we're not sexy anymore just because it looks a different way. And then we we take that in, and then we think the message is coming from inside of us. And and part of my part of what I'm trying to say is no, the message isn't coming from inside of us, it's coming from outside, and we get to push back.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

We get to decide. Absolutely. I want to come back to the mom who is diving into the book to escape something, to another cohort of women that I also believe are consuming and fantasy and romance and and dark romance at a high rate. We know that that in the dating world, there is some struggle between, especially in the heterosexual dating world between men and when we women. We've heard about the loneliness epidemic. We hear about more and more women choosing to stay single, choosing solo sex, finding dating difficult. And many of them instead are finding their hobbies, such as reading romance, dark romance, fulfills that part of them that needs and wants the passion and romance and and spiciness. Does that resonate?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think in that group of folks, one of the things about dating and and and sexual desire and sexual pleasure is that often to be, and you know this, to be really satisfied, you have to be vulnerable and you have to be really open with a partner. And when you're dating, you can have really fun sex and you can have that novelty. And novelty in and of itself is really fun, but it often, not always, but often doesn't allow for that. Oh, I'm really gonna tell you what I really like, and I'm really gonna tell you what I'm interested in, and I'm really gonna get emotionally available in a way that is gonna allow for that pleasure. And dating often doesn't have that, and people aren't establishing those connections, and so they're just sort of like, okay, well, I can find it somewhere else, and then and then I'll either choose to be single or I'll or I'll I'll just be okay with kind of settling for ho-hum in my dating life, and then I'll find it in other arenas, which which is good for them. I'm really, I'm really happy that people are finding these outlets. And I think I just think there's also our own inherent humanity that is built to connect. And so making sure we don't take all of it offline and to ourselves, but make sure we're we're really trying to continue to connect.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Right. Because I think ideally, first of all, books and fantasy worlds and books is wonderful. I mostly listen to audiobooks these days because my eyes are always tired from computer work. But I love, I love books, I love, I love movies, I love series, and I know a lot of people. That's why binge watching has become a thing, because you get to escape into this other world and essentially live vicariously through other people, whether that is a smuddy show or whatever it is. But I think that the beauty of having these outlets, if we can harness what we can learn from them, is that we can take the elements from them that are turning us on and fulfilling our life. And if we have a partner or if we're someone out there dating, we can figure out how to bring some of those elements into the real world and into our real lives, and then actually get to live out some of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think so many women, there's a group of women who know what they want and aren't getting it in their current, whether it's dating or relationships. And so they turn to these other avenues to have a fulfilled. I think there's another group of women though that don't know at all, that have never understood themselves. Again, I think, because culturally we're not, that's not okay. There's there's all sorts of messaging that says that that's bad. And so I think these books, I mean, I know I've had conversations with girlfriends where it's like they just kind of picked it up because another girlfriend recommended it and they were like, yeah, I'll try reading it. And it's it's brought up things for them that they never knew. And it's it's eliciting this kind of awareness and revelation in them because there's this huge group that's just never felt that they had the permission or the time or the ability to really, to really think about what they want. So, so I love that these books are having that impact on just a huge group of women.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

It's interesting that you say that because basically what you're saying is that these books are a great place for women to explore their own fantasies in a safe space. They don't have another person to think about. It's one of the things I love about masturbating, is like I can explore my different feelings and thoughts and stuff like that, and I don't have to worry about someone else. So it's a positive thing. It can be a really positive thing. I do want to go back to the cohort of women who are married, they have partners they have that they could be having sex with. This woman who is not having sex with her partner and is consuming book after book after book, is she escaping her partner? Or is she escaping some version of herself that she feels stuck in? Or could it be a yeah?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

That's interesting. I I think it can definitely be a combo, and I and really too, I

Dating Fatigue And Private Desire

SPEAKER_01 20:45

mean, it it it not to be too negative, I think many women are escaping all the whole structure of their lives. I think there is this time for many women who get to this place, let's call it mid-40s, and you have the kids and you have the car and you have the job and you have the dog and you have whatever you have. And and that was the vision of your life that you had created when you were young. And now you're living in it, and you're sort of like, Oh, is this all there is? Is this I'm supposed to be. Right. This was my dream, and I'm living my dream. And and then I think there's this whole, this whole societal place where we're just told to be grateful that we're supposed to say, No, you have it, so just be grateful. And I think, I think no, I think that's just telling us to settle. And so I think many women, these books are drawing, they're eliciting these parts of themselves that again are alive but have been dormant, or alive but have been deepized in service of these other pieces of their lives. And so I think uh I like to think it's not that they're escaping their partner. I mean, certain some some relationships are are. are not meant to last the the lifespan and that's fine. But I think for many women there's there's lots of love and affection that still very much exists with the partner. They've built a life together, they have children together, there's they've shared this life experience. So I don't necessarily think it's about escaping that. I think it's about tapping into this piece of themselves and the piece of their relationship that is just gone. And so recognizing that and reading it and going, oh, this is still this is still in me. This is still of me. And I I encourage women to say okay great you've identified this thing that's still alive and well embrace it and then take it into your relationship and see if you can build it and start to recreate and start to cultivate these aspects that that once were there and have just have just gone to the wayside.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

I love that piece of using that to start working on what you feel like you've lost and those pieces of yourself that are still there. I'm gonna ask a perhaps a controversial question. Massive amount of women are getting their erotic needs met through these romance novels through the dark romance through the romanticy. That's a given it's it is an erotic need that's being met sexually erotically met. Whether or not they're masturbating or not I think a lot of people think that you actually have to physically be touching yourself or or have a physical orgasm to have that need met. Absolutely not and that's where an energetic orgasm comes from right there are different types of erotic satisfaction. And I think it's also given as the name of this show goes that many of them are getting their needs met there but not having sex in their relationships. So I have to with the intention of being fair equate it to porn where many men turn to get their erotic needs met through visually seeing graphic sex because that's what again men tend to be more these spontaneous arousal. And that and some women are too but we know by and large women are more reactive and that's why the reading and the story and the creating the whole world builds up that that excitement and eroticism and a lot of men are called porn addicts and shamed for doing that. And a lot of women in and and this is a very heterosexual conversation by the way I'm sure there are versions of it I'm a queer woman that exist in the queer space although it's just it's just a very different space we're a little bit less likely to have problems with porn and so on and so forth. Like we've got porn addiction rehabilitation where like the right who's been like doing that and gets caught by his wife who I've worked with a lot of women in in relationships who are very wounded by a man watching porn and getting his needs met there. But yet wouldn't we say this could be somewhat of an equivalent for women it just looks different and it's more palatable in our society overall.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah I mean I think you raise a really good point and I think it's a really fair kind of question to bring up because one is just can it one is considered more socially acceptable because you can you can buy it at a at a regular store not an adult store right I think that there's also less porn is laden with questions around whether it's ethical porn right and and consent. So I think there's questions around the the production of porn that make it far more complicated when it comes to the consumption of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Can I I want to jump in there for a second. While that is true there's also plenty of ethical porn out there. I mean I do think that there was a time there was a time when the idea of ethical porn and non-ethical porn didn't exist. I think it it is much more common for and and easier for people to find ethical porn. And it's also interesting when I think about one is visual and it does it does include other people acting out on screen and then one is words on a written book but both of them trigger the same sort of physical reaction right and and someone wrote that story.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Right. They're both meeting a need. Back to your question I think they're both meeting a need and there is a a general gender breakdown of of who's consuming what but yeah they're both meeting a need. And so I think if you think about it that way there is there is a bit of a double standard around

Smut, Porn, And The Double Standard

SPEAKER_01 27:10

one is totally acceptable and one is is devastating there's also when it comes to the addiction as a as a clinician there's all the sort of DSM criteria for what create what what gets you the label of addiction whether that's porn or gambling or a substance and and whether we agree with the the tenants of how the DSM diagnosis they all look at the sort of how it impacts your daily life and these these these activities and whether they have negative and recurring and consistent consequences. So if you drink alcohol every day but you still go to work, you still pay your rent, your relationships are solid, you haven't developed liver disease, et cetera, et cetera, then you wouldn't be diagnosed with alcohol dependence because you don't have those functional impairments in your daily life. So if you look at porn and you you do the same calculus is that something that you're you're watching so much you're not going to work you're you're spending all your money paying for for live time and and you're not you're not buying your kids birthday present. If you're spending so much time either reading the books or watching the porn or whatever the case may be that you have zero interest in your partner, then that is a problem. But it's not the the porn or the book that's the problem it's that you're diverting all your sexual energy elsewhere when you've probably agreed with that person once upon a time that you are going to make sure that that sexual energy is cultivated with the two of you. So it's not the porn or the book it's that you've you've gone against a a commitment that you've made to say hey we're gonna we're gonna make sure we keep this going with us. And and that's the real issue there.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

And that your partner isn't getting their needs met because you're taking care of your needs somewhere else. Exactly and and so I didn't mean to get our conversation off track but it in the moment occurred to me and it actually adds I think more layers to this this phenomenon. Now I think what's really important for this conversation is all right so we know this is out there and I'm like go read your book. I am a I fully support people enjoying adding erotica to their life whether it is through watching sexy people do sexy things live or on TV in an ethical way or reading about fantasy situations that you may never be able to be a part of but you want to live vicariously through the written words and then you have a partner andor you are out there dating and and not connecting with people, I think what needs to happen now is let's look at what is going on with the romantic with those books. What are some elements that we can take from the reading of those books and start integrating into our own intimate lives to add a little spice, bring the fantasy out of the book and into reality, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah, 100% yeah I mean I think read it together or say hey I I've started reading this book in this this chapter I really liked it. That's that's this release if it's too scary to say I like this specific thing that happened in this specific passage or I've realized that this this makes me want to try a little role play or a little bondage or a little power play or whatever the case may be you can just say hey I've been reading this book and I don't know I don't exactly know what's going on but I know I'm enjoying it and maybe maybe we could read it together.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

That is a great idea talk about fantasy unlocked for me I think something that would be really sexy to do with a partner because I love again I used to be an avid reader now I'm an audio odd avid audiobook listener but I also love just stories, movies, TV series. But I think something that would be super sexy to be able to do with a partner is to find a hot book and have your reading time together in bed every night. And I think it's super important here too because maybe sometimes I'm only guessing because really the last romantic or whatever that I read was was 52 shades. I actually sat with the book and read it because I was like what is going on what's this all about yeah it was really cringe. So maybe some of it's a little cheesy and cringy but the point is to still be there and read the sexy things together and you can laugh a little that makes it fun too yeah I mean I think so much that is also tapping into people with these books is that it is it is it is silly it is fantasy it is ridiculous and it's playful and it's light.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

And I think that's also a piece that many women and couples are missing when they're just like oh my God they're living at this groundhog day of the daily grind and they they have no room for the lighthearted and and this stuff is if you take a minute you go oh my gosh this is so ridiculous. Okay so it's so ridiculous just lean into it and have fun and we we think so much we read all these fantasies and fairy tales to children and we really think we think this is so good for their brain development and this is so healthy and this is so incredible and we really support that. And then when you become adults there's this that's bad. And I and I I disagree why why is that something that is good until you're 12 years old and then it should go away I don't think it should ever go away that can be this really positive part of your life.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

I agree I agree and as motivation to perhaps some of the men who might be like oh it's so cheesy the book what if it leads to you getting laid is it cheesy then I don't think so so what? Have fun with it I've actually had couples I've worked with that that's exactly what I I one of the the assignments I gave them was to either listen to or read Erotica in bed together to find try different books. The other thing that I think is cool about it and I think you'll agree is it can help you come up with ideas for it the bedroom it can help you learn the language of sex because a lot of people have a hard time with sexy talk and sexy talk is a real big acidisiac once you get it right but it's it can be hard you have to practice language to be good.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

It's like learning a new language and by reading taking turns reading the stories out loud you start to learn the language of sex right yes I yeah I think we just there's just the deficit of learning and practice so much of so much of having great sex is also just practice. It's you got to do it you got to learn yourself. If you have a partner you got to learn your partner and oh and guess what as you age it changes after this happens it changes. So it's a constant it's a constant evolution and I think instead of thinking oh God I got to relearn it's no you get to continuously explore. And I yeah I'm thinking of a girlfriend of mine who started reading a lot of this stuff and her her

Bring The Fantasy Into Real Life

SPEAKER_01 34:55

partner husband was like I don't know and then he recognized that there were all these positive benefits for him. And so they have a bunch of kids and he he was this dutiful husband that would make sure she had her reading time and he would take care of the kids and gave her space because because she would read it and then she would want to bring it back into the bedroom with him. So also they weren't doing it together but he but he was like okay this is good for her this makes her happy this makes me happy in turn because she's interested in having sex afterwards and so it actually really did a few things in their relationship. It balanced some workload it gave her some time it it facilitated their sex life and and they just figured out a way to incorporate it.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Gives her libido lit buddy it's it's so simple it's she can go get turned on you tuck the little tykes into bed and then you let her get get act out some of that sexual frustration she's built up and is ready to release. Yeah it's a win-win all around yeah so what are some specific things that women specifically I know there's guys reading it too but we're gonna we're gonna do a gendered version of that this for simplicity's sake all right and if you're really ticked off listeners by the fact that I'm doing this way it this way and assuming women over men feel free to email me drop a comment we'll come back and we'll talk about the men who love erotica okay yes but in this for this conversation's sake we're going by pure numbers and the numbers say that women are consuming this.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

So what are some more things that we can learn from this phenomena that women are getting from reading erotica that we can now take and bring into relationships and the dating world to enhance those two places yeah I think the first there's a few things I think one is if you're if you're comfortable enough start talking start communicating tell your partner tell whomever say I've started reading these books I really like them and whether it's I look them I like them because and you know exactly why or you're just saying I really like them and and I don't actually understand it but but I really like them and do you want to do you want to read them with me? Do you want do you want to just kind of I just I just wanted to tell you this is fun and it's it's doing something for me. I think at the very simplest you can enter into a conversation that way that way. If you're feeling more brave you can go further and really just and really begin having those conversations about what what you miss about your sex life, right? What, oh we used to have this and now we don't have it anymore we're so busy and and I'm really enjoying these books and can we start to carve out some more time can we think about oh we just sit on the couch every night and scroll our phones. We actually have time we keep telling ourselves we don't have time but you know what we actually do have time. Can we do something together? So I think I think at the very least today the talking can start at whatever pace and sort of level of intricacy it's so important. And I think the other takeaway is simply a little bit of a mindset. There's so many women and couples who are just ingrained with this notion that as you age throughout a long-term relationship that you that that you should mourn and grieve the loss of a healthy sex life okay with the goal of getting to acceptance and instead instead of accepting that you get it's an inevitability that it will that it will die and it will not be good, you get to take this experience of reading these books and really enjoying them and go, oh, okay, hang on, wait a second this is something we can still very much have all the time throughout so it's still there's still a fire there. Great. Let me bring it back to my partner let let me go back to talking about it and let me let me see this as just such a positive hopeful thing that we can still have.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Right. And reading those books together can teach you also how to do some different things in your personal intimate life and even in your non-intimate life because a lot of the things that take place in romanticy and in dark romance and in romance novels isn't even sex. It's the fire between the two people throughout their full days. And I am telling you right now as a coach as a sex and intimacy coach when I have couples come to me and the fire has gone out of their relationship I mean one of the first things we start working on is building fiery moments throughout the whole day.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Live your life fully you don't I loved at one point during this conversation you talked about just being stuck in the groundhog type day type living the same fucking day over and over you don't have to make that choice no and you don't have to become your coworkers and that is just what people and and and often they're good at it your roommates your coworkers your co-parents you're whatever you are and and I love what you just said because I think so many people think sexual touch sexual intimacy sexual playful jokes whatever it it's only for the bedroom in time of actual sexual encounter and I think exactly what you said that's the stuff that you you that's the really easy low stakes take zero time zero commitment that you integrate throughout your life to I think remind yourself that you're still a sexual being remind your partner that you all are still lovers and not just coworkers and they're so simple it's a butt grab it's a joke it's a kiss it's a it's a it's a look up and down I mean these aren't things that require more time or more effort but they the return is so great because they enhance that vibration between the two of you to keep you from just becoming owners of a daycare center together which is not sexy.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

It's innuendo and anticipation I'm betting you now I'm not a novel writer. I am a writer but not a novel writer I am betting you two of the winning ingredients in these kinds of books are innuendo and anticipation. However you build that anticipation it can be challenges to get to the eventual sex that the people have or whatever it is. And you can bring innuendo and anticipation into your relationship and into your dating life.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

A hundred percent and it's so it's so simple and again I think for for couples my sort of advice is always that that is not it costs zero money it takes zero time it's low effort it's just it's just behaving slightly differently as you would in your normal day-to-day functions it's just simply so easy it's a mindset and your behavior will follow and that is something anybody can implement right away anybody you guys have got that those are your takeaways if you're gonna sit down and you're gonna read some dirty shit together tonight

Daily Flirtation And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 42:50

it's gonna be wonderful it's gonna be wonderful have have like I think every if you go to bed at the same time every night just make it a what 15 minute routine even it will probably end up going longer bring loose also take some time to to diagnose what is so hot in the book what is getting her you read it and she gets in she's I've got you've got to read this passage or you're reading and she's oh my god that was so hot if it's not hot to you don't go I didn't find it hot say oh what what what turned you on I want to know and then do that thing yeah get curious just go on an adventure together and just look at it like that it's an adventure I don't know where we're gonna go but let's just see yeah and then plug some of those elements into your everyday life all right before we go though I have to ask you do you have any suggestions I again I do you have do you read do you read these books? I do yeah do I read yes I do read yeah and these books are it is it is interesting because I'm like you I don't love them I find them silly and cringy but I think I have a hunch that part of the reason I find them silly and cringy is that I already have this sort of actively present in my life and so I'm not I'm not dipping into this side that doesn't otherwise have a real outlet. So I read it from the lens of this observer and I go, okay, I can see why people like this. I can see why why it taps into a piece of somebody's libido or brain or emotions that they're not otherwise getting I can look at them and go, they're just really playful. They just let you escape and that is what people are missing. They're missing escapism and they're missing play because life is hard and it's serious and it's a grind. And so when I look at it I go okay this is just silly like how amazing let's all just yes have space for that.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

It's that time can you tell my listeners and viewers where they can find you and find out more about you.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah sure the best place to find me is probably on my website where you'll get details about my book and other things going on and that is desireinreal life.com that'll also link you you can go over to the Instagram at the same handle desire in real life yeah and I just I just want more people talking about this having these conversations and not letting this part of themselves die as they age it's so sad. It only gets better I'm 52 and I mean there are challenges but it can get real good because you're over having sex for the purpose of building a family or procreating now it's all just fun and games and less performative you're just like oh okay I'm gonna do what I really want not just what I think people want.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah absolutely thank you so much for joining me today I really appreciate you being here thank you it was great I really appreciate it and to my listeners until next time I'll see you in the locker rooms cheers bye loud