A light red comes up in a tasting - do you know how to tell what it is? We tell you the tricks.
Wines tasted:
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
A light red comes up in a tasting - do you know how to tell what it is? We tell you the tricks.
Wines tasted:
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
One, two, three Say something. One, two three Every time. Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mal. We're here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Mal, Gilchrist, joined by Master of Wine Meg Brotman. Meg, what are we doing this week?
Speaker 2:We're just going to have a look like we did a couple of weeks ago I can't remember when and how to taste wine, so I've got three great varieties reds this time that can be confusing. Yes, totally so. Pinot Gamay much to my dismay, and no, I'm actually kind of turning on to Gamay a little bit. Oh, my God, and a Grenache.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. So we're in the like lighter spectrum of reds. Yes, and if, in theory, you were doing like a blind tasting, how would you tell these apart? Exactly, that's what we're going to do, but first, what have you been drinking?
Speaker 2:I had Howard Park Centre's some 2023, me and Mup Sauvignon Blanc Semillon Blown away. It's a style of wine from Market River SSB. We call them Sauvignon Blanc well, semi-yong Sauvignon Blanc, but this is Sauvignon Blanc Semi-Yong that we haven't. That I have just forgotten about I haven't really been drinking it.
Speaker 2:I've always found them quite grassy, a little bit too herbaceous. The acidity is a little bit can be high. This was amazing, awesome. If you'd given it to me blind, I would have thought this is something from Sancerre. There was black currant leaf and minerality. There was a touch of grassiness, beautifully balanced. It was bloody delicious. I meant to have one glass just to taste it so I could talk about it. Yeah, bottle gone. Wow, and we had it with I'm trying to think, because I'm trying to do it with tasting and doing my notes yes, and then having it with my dinner. And we had it with Korean pancakes, vegetable pancake things. Oh my God, yum. It was really, really good because there was a smokiness in the sort of okonomiyaki sauce with the grassiness. Yum.
Speaker 1:Do you know I love a Sam Sav, especially from that like Western Australian. Like I love a Sam Sav especially from that like Western Australian river type area.
Speaker 2:I have not had one for so long and I've just forgotten In a clear bottle peeps. I had just forgotten how bloody delicious it was just perfect, awesome.
Speaker 1:Do you know how much it's worth?
Speaker 2:No, okay, they haven't put the price on that list, but it was a good year, 2023, apparently cooler vintage. So, yeah, really go and find it. How Park? I'm sure if you Google it you'll be able to find it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll include it in the show notes as well. And fun fact.
Speaker 2:Fun fact there's been a study done by the Viticulture and Enology Journal that natural wines can be clean, oh Jesus. So they believe it is a fallacy that all natural wines are based on flaws. And they went through and they tested the wines for flaws, did the tasting panel, and they had a huge number of people I think there were 45 people on the tasting panel some sort of more conservative or standard wine drinkers, and then there were more of the hipsters and groovers who loved the natural wines. 45% of the wines were shown to actually have faults. Yeah, but they still ranked pretty well amongst the hipsters, but not so well amongst the more conservative drinkers.
Speaker 2:So it's nothing anything new, but I just love the title. Natural wines can be clean.
Speaker 1:I thought that was really funny it is funny, it really is, I don't know. I just think we can't really, um, like we'd spend so much time thinking about these labels like can't wine just exist? It exists on a spectrum, kind of like. Some are filtered, some are not. Like what?
Speaker 2:there is no real definition for natural now anyway no well, according to the europeans, I think the french only the french have the definition it has to be made from organic grapes.
Speaker 2:The italians are trying to get that included as well, but it's not going anywhere. Um, there's not that many organic grapes available in the world, so you're right. But the problem is for me because I've had a winemaking background. That's what we're trained to see, and wine shows came about to try and improve the quality of wines, and so it's just trying to change my mindset. There are some that can be clean, that I enjoy.
Speaker 1:And, like just natural, wine doesn't necessarily have to have zero additives and zero sulfates, right? No, it depends on how, because, like a great example is Pat Sullivan, the stuff that he's doing is unfined and unfiltered, but that is some of the cleanest, most beautiful Chardonnays I've ever tasted. But by definition, it's pretty close to natural.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but don't people give him shit. Isn't he copping a lot of flack for not being?
Speaker 1:natural enough. Oh yeah, this is the thing. It's ridiculous. But no, he is, and he's got some other stuff that's getting.
Speaker 2:yeah, well, it is a cold Did you see that James Suckling has said that, or the wine enthusiasts that Gippsland is the place to be watching at the moment. Ooh, no, yes, so they're all over it, baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, as it should. Be All right, let's get into this?
Speaker 2:Should we try Gamay first? Let's start with Gamay. So this is a Gam Lingo Gam Gamay and Adelaide Hills Gamay. That's easier to drink than say this is a pinnacle wine. Okay, I got it because I kind of like the funky battle. We've got the video going today.
Speaker 1:We do so. If all things go well, you should actually be able to go on YouTube and watch it that way if you want to do that.
Speaker 2:There you go, Mel. You pour yourself. Thank you so, Gamay. What do we expect from Gamay?
Speaker 1:Gamay. So Gamay generally has a bit of a whole bunch in it. So Gamay can be a bit candied, can be a bit like banana red lollies super, super bunchy red bursting fruit.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and acid tends to be on the high side. Fruit Exactly, and acid tends to be on the high side. Tannins tend to be on the low-ish side, even though you can get some of the bunch tannins. Generally, if they do carbonic maceration traditionally with Gamay, they will do the carbonic maceration with the whole bunch, then de-stem and complete the fermentation. That's sort of how it's been done, but with more funkster winemaking now we tend to leave the whole bunches in the sort of the new world in Australia Usually has a really bright cherry purple colour.
Speaker 2:It very rarely for me has that garnet-y colour. Yeah, it does so when you first see it in tasting, if you're doing it in a blind tasting, it has that sort of purple-y tinge to it. The fruit will jump out of the glass and you could confuse it because it is red fruit and it can be a little bit confected with pinot noir very definitely. The thing that sets it apart for me is the tannin structure and the mouth-fillingness. It tends to be a little bit more simple in the mouth. It's not as mouth-filling as Pinot. I have brushed my teeth and then eaten today, so I'm all good to go.
Speaker 1:This to me doesn't have a huge amount of that confected flavour as I would normally get in a gamay. I find it a lot more of that. Just beautiful fresh fruit.
Speaker 2:It's very soft, very gentle. See what I mean. It doesn't have that length that you get from Pinot Noir. Yeah, these were all around the 25-ish mark.
Speaker 1:That's a great drop for 25. That's beautiful. What do you like that I do? Oh, good, Thank God drop for $25. That's beautiful. Do you like that? I do, oh good, thank God.
Speaker 2:I would chill that down. It's delicious, it is seriously delicious. I always say that charcuterie is a really lame way of doing food and wine matching, but I just think something salty with that would work really, really well, unless that's just me wanting some salt now we should bring along food to test at the same time.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, except that would be disgusting in the mics. True, okay, so this is difficult. So the main thing we're saying is possible confected flavour, but this doesn't really have it. It's a simpleness that would distinguish it from, say, a Pinot Noir.
Speaker 2:Yeah and no oak.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Gamay. I've never had a Gamay with oak. There are some of the Creux Gamays. Yeah, beaujolais, beaujolais, some of the Creux Gamay. So in Beaujolais they have Creuxs which are named villages, and some of the Creuxs are actually ageing in oak, but the ones that I have had have usually had older oak, so it's more of a softening and fining of the tannins and Billie seems to like Gamay.
Speaker 1:She's following in her mother's footsteps. Billie likes Gamay.
Speaker 2:But it has no oak and it goes more straight down your line than Pinot. Pinot has that soft, silky tannin that's more mouth-filling.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, okay. So that's kind of hard and abstract. We're not giving a really simple answer for that one, so it might take a bit of tasting and exploring to kind of get around what we're saying there.
Speaker 2:If you are doing like, if you're studying for your MW or for your diploma or even your WCT Level 3, get them next to each other. Yeah, that's the way to tell, and do it often and be confused by it and then keep going back and moving the glasses around. The ones that I got confused about for my MW were Pinot Gamay and, believe it or not, those sort of Roussillon reds, the southern French Grenaches.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, when I look at them now, they are completely different but I would get so confused and I actually spent a lot of time and money just trying to work out how I could tell the difference. And it's Gamay, it's a structural thing. It tends to go straight down. My palate. Pinot is more softer and the other defining factor for me was alcohol. Yep, because this tends to have about 13.5% alcohol. Gamay tends to be grown in a cool climate. This is 13.
Speaker 1:It's lovely, just for meay. It's like a burst of fruit and then it leaves, whereas pinot tends to carry it and and has that, has that journey like a length and has penocity it has penocity because these tannins are different these are tannins, are a little bit aspirin-y.
Speaker 2:You know you have aspirin. I know it's a really old drug. No one has aspirin anymore, I do. There's an aspirin quality about them I wouldn't say effervescence, but like even Eno, there's something I don't know raspy about them. They're not as silky and soft and supple as a Pinot Tenen. That is freaking delicious. Well, you can have that for dinner tonight.
Speaker 1:That is so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, it is nice, all right.
Speaker 1:Moving on, what are we going to taste next?
Speaker 2:So, now we've got a Zonzo Yarra Valley Pinot Noir Nice. This is made by Zonzo, who are in the Yarra Valley. This is made by Zonzo, who are in the Yarra Valley. Caroline Mooney is the winemaker. 13% alcohol. It's from the 2022 vintage, which is a cooler vintage, but still a really good vintage for Pinot. And automatically you'll see that it has. It's still got a cherry red, but there's much more of that garnet tone to it. So if you see these lighter coloured wines in your glass think Grenache, pinot, gamay yeah, I can't think of anything else. That would be Sangiovese Nebbiolo yeah Well, they're going to give themselves away. They're going to be way more garnet and the tannins are going to be completely different. So that's why I didn't put them in this tasting. So it looks like Pinot. It's got a bit bunch on it.
Speaker 1:Surely it's the spice that's giving that away. There's almost like a baking spice savouriness to it. There definitely is some present in the Gamay. There's almost like a baking spice savouriness to it. There's definitely some present in the Gamay You've got baking spice.
Speaker 2:There's definitely some oak in there. The tannin's completely different. It fills your mouth up, I feel it more in my tongue. Very silky tannins. It's got a slightly lower level of acidity than I think the Gamay did have. Definite oak, still cherry fruit. This has got a little bit of, I think, bunchy fermentation in it, so there's a bit of that confected character as well. Yeah, but it's just that roundness.
Speaker 1:It's a way more structural wine than the Gamay Exactly. Not that this is the best wine language, but it just tastes like a more serious wine.
Speaker 2:And I think that's my thing with gamay, because I made so much of it and it was shit. Well, for Nouveau, you know just.
Speaker 1:It's yeah.
Speaker 2:It's. I am a bit dismissive of it because it is so simple. Yeah, it's kind of like the rosé of red wine if you know what I mean. Although I am getting a little bit into the rosé, since trying some of those rosé rum babies.
Speaker 1:I know they're good, yeah, but it's like, how do you find the ones that are like that anyway?
Speaker 2:Anyway, that's off track.
Speaker 1:We, they'll like that anyway. Anyway, that's off track, we know now. But there is definite. See, I'm contradicting myself because I think what I think about Rode, but then I also think there is a definite place for something that's just simple and fun and don't think drink.
Speaker 2:I had one which I'll talk about next week in my what I've been drinking. Pete and I were blown away. The marketing is so freaking clever. Yeah, okay, it's great, great, great wine. So Pinot Noir compared to Gamay, rounder, more plush tannins, silkier. Still got that confected fruit. I know we say don't concentrate too much on colour, but the colour will be cherry red with a hint of garnet usually on it. It'll still be light in colour. Acidities could be the same, yeah, so don't go on acidity, but for me it's just that plushness in your palate, and I think that savoury spicy thing as well is really quite different.
Speaker 2:Definite evidence of oak in that wine. Yeah, and that kind of gives it away, because if people are picking Pinot most Pinots except for your $7 Jacob's Creek, was it that we tried yeah, most Pinots are going to be put into oak because you're spending a lot of money on the fruit, so it's a supportive thing. But you do definitely see Christmasy spice, you know cinnamon and clove and a bit of nutmeg.
Speaker 1:That was pretty nice actually yeah, that is quite nice Very baby wine, baby, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:It's very young. Oh, it's young. It needs a little bit of time to come together. Yeah, I'm finding it hard to believe that that was $25, but I can't remember. These are all from Dan's. So next we have Hensley Farm 2022, the Marl Grenache from Barossa Valley. This is produced by Hentley Farm, 14.5% alcohol. And that's the thing about Grenache.
Speaker 1:It is going to be so high in alcohol, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's not going to be low.
Speaker 1:Looks like pinot in the glass. It's. One of the saddest things in this world is when you smell a Grenache and you think it is going to be so delicious because it smells amazing, and then you taste it and it burns your throat.
Speaker 2:Just pop it in the fridge peeps, just knock that alcohol on your head. Grenache is all about strawberries strawberry jam, strawberry lollies, strawberries and cream lollies. It's got lower levels of acidity because it's grown in warmer climates and it has higher alcohol. But on the color and even on the nose when you first smell it. Strawberries, pinot can have strawberries, but this is just strawberries.
Speaker 1:It's just strawberries and it's more of a jam. It's not dissimilar to the Gamma, though no.
Speaker 2:What do you think Billy's just giving her opinion? She's as opinionated as her mother. We are in trouble, she's a talker. But that is just strawberry, strawberry. There is a hint of minerality in there as well.
Speaker 1:Mmm. Like strawberry icing Mmm.
Speaker 2:But you can feel the alcohol. If you want to know how to feel alcohol, hold the wine in your mouth and let it heat up and it'll become warming, and that's what the alcohol does to you. The tannins on this are more dusty and raspy Again that aspiriny kind of tannin that we got in the Gamay, but the strawberiness just gives it away absolutely as Gamay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And alcohol I find it. You can even see the legs on the glass are just like dripping down. They're very viscous, not that I really put much sway in.
Speaker 1:It's like it has absolutely no palate weight. It's like it has absolutely no palate weight.
Speaker 2:It's quite hollow. Well, and that's why traditionally in Europe in France, where it's home, and in Spain it's blended, yeah. So you've got ganache, tempranillo grenache with Syrah Mouvedre. We have GSMs here in Australia, because it tends to have a little bit of hollowness, it kind of goes around the outside of your palate and not really fills out the middle. So you know, if you've got Mouvedre, it adds a little bit of tannic extract to it, a little bit of spice. Syrah does the same. It adds a little bit more acidity. It can be Grenaches, can be really, really simple. Yeah, but sometimes that's their appeal, I guess, In.
Speaker 1:MW, would you do? They only do single variety. No, they wouldn't, because Bordeaux and stuff hey.
Speaker 2:No, they say this wine has been made from a dominant grape variety. Oh Name, the dominant grape variety.
Speaker 1:So if a GSM was like 30,30-30 plus a little bit of something, it would not be probably in there, it wouldn't go in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, that's fair. I was going to say, because that's hard, no. But when you get to Northern Rhone say you know it's predominantly Syrah with a smattering of white grape varieties. You know usually about 5% Left Bank or it's not Left Bank anymore. What do we call it? I can't even remember.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? We don't call it Left Bank anymore. Oh, I don't know. They've changed it. All the rules on us. Oh really, we can't say New World and Old World anymore.
Speaker 1:I did hear that. What do we say? I don't know, Europe, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's definitely a bear. That's what it is. But they say you know, in the left bank it's usually, but it does vintage, very vintage to vintage. Yeah, so it can be difficult, but it does say this is made from a dominant grape variety. But when they say single grape variety, you're in heaven, because it's Pinot. Yeah, of course, if you're in France, if you're in France, if you're in France, there's not many single red grape variety wines. So yeah it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. Well, let's recap, starting with Gamay, we have single burst of red fruit, kind of really light, soft tannins, pretty short and simple, goes away. Quick, yummy, simple. Is there anything else Really fresh?
Speaker 2:Fresh, yeah, linear, and can often have that confected fruit character.
Speaker 1:Yep Pinot, you're more likely to see a little bit of oak. We're going to have silkier tannins. We're going to have more structure and potentially a bit of savouriness. It's a more serious wine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a plush mouthfeel. It's got a round plush mouthfeel.
Speaker 1:Thank you, billie. And then we go Nash. The biggest giveaway is going to be that high alcohol, over 14% probably. It might have that kind of hollow mouthfeel and just a super straw blue flavour, without a whole lot more complexity mixed in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and can be oaked and unoaked, but generally is unoaked or just lightly oaked. I didn't see any oak in that wine and they don't mention it on the back label and if they've used it they're going to be telling you about it.
Speaker 1:Okay, Well, our next round. What could we do, like a Tempranillo, a Sangiovese Montmelo.
Speaker 2:No. Tempranillo, malbec, Shiraz.
Speaker 1:Nice Okay.
Speaker 2:Because Sangiovese, Nibiolo, Italian tannins are in a completely different ballpark. Yeah, and the colour is. The ones I confused were Malbec, Shiraz and Tempranillo. Yeah, and I mean possibly Merlot, but Merlot tends to be a little bit lighter in colour. I did have a Tempranillo last night from Heathcote.
Speaker 1:Oh, there you go. Wasn't bad, all right, wasn't bad Good, all right, good. And then there's the conversation about do we actually so? Do we take a Tempranillo from Australia or Spain, I reckon we take it from Spain?
Speaker 2:Well, they have all the ageing rules. This is the problem. It would be better to take them all from a single, Just like a young one. Yeah, a single vintage. Similar winemaking style and I confuse Syrah less than Shiraz.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what With Tempranillo and Malbec Syrah? For me, northern Rhine Syrahs tend to have chunkier tannins to them. Oh, wow, yeah, oh, it's a very, very, very busy girl.
Speaker 1:Jesus, you are loud, you are loud, that's all good, she's talking.
Speaker 2:I wonder where she got that loudness from.
Speaker 1:Oh, we'll never know, All right, Meg, let's do a final drop. What have we got?
Speaker 2:So we were sent some wine from Beresford Winery and they've sent through the Galway Pipe Grand Tawny aged 12 years, fortified wine. Now we don't cover much fortified. We don't. Only two percent of production in the world really is fortified wine and two percent of consumption is fortified wine and two percent of our exports from Australia is fortified wine. Yeah, but we have a great history of making fortified wines and I just thought it was interesting.
Speaker 2:It says grand tawny. I thought we weren't allowed to use the term tawny, but it's the word port that we can't use anymore. So tawny is a style. So tawny means barrel. Well, if, if you're sticking to the portuguese definition of it, tawny means barrel aged. So we either talk about barrel aged fortified reds or we talk about bottle aged. So vintage salad, vintage sales, vintage ports or vintage fortified reds, um late bottle vintage. This is a tawny style. So the first thing you notice about it is it's got a distinctly tawny color. There's a touch of red in it, but it's got that real brownie, orangey, bricking hues. Oh, now there's a thing in in um fortified wines called rancia. We were just having this discussion before and you were like what um the translation?
Speaker 1:it means stale, but it's, it's not it gives, it gives a really nutty, desiccated fruit character and sometimes a warm butter.
Speaker 2:How is it different?
Speaker 1:to just a tertiary flavour.
Speaker 2:It isn't. It is a tertiary flavour, but it's described as Rancio, so it's usually from when the wine's been deliberately exposed to oxygen, so it's an oxidative.
Speaker 1:Oh, so it's specifically an oxidative Yep characteristic.
Speaker 2:And Rancio is like floral, it's a broad term covering a number of aromas or flavours. So you see it in Madeira, you see it in some sherrys, you see it in some ports. I see it, as you know, when you do burnt butter or brown butter it gets that nutty butteriness, yes, yum, that's what I see, and I can see that. Sorry in the nose of this, but it's. You know, it's Christmas pudding, it's raisins and spice, Christmas spice and cinnamon, Beautiful wine. We're having some warmer, cooler weather here in Melbourne, so it's nice.
Speaker 1:I just I forget to drink fortified wine. I just don't think of it, but it is so yummy, oh my god, that is bloody delicious it is seriously good stuff, beautifully balanced.
Speaker 2:It's sweet. Yeah, it's got um great acidity. You can't really tell great variety. It could be a mix of anything red, but it's. It's really hyper ripe great varieties, but you've got that sort of raisin fruit. But it's really hyper-ripe grape varieties, but you've got that sort of raisin fruit character. There's a mocha character in there as well. Caramel it is beautiful. The thing that I struggle with is fortifieds and I know that it's not sustainable, but I am in basically a two-person household.
Speaker 1:Yes, how long do we have to drink this?
Speaker 2:Tawny, you can keep that.
Speaker 1:It's gone as far as it will go awesome so oh so we can stay open for the next year and we can just sit away at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would try and drink it quicker than a year, but my mother sure as shit would have it in one of those you know christmas glass decanters. Yeah, from christmas to christmas and it was, it was okay. But um, I would you know, I'd still put a little bit of wine saver on it. I know it's awful and I know that this is not what they want, but that, poured over ice cream, would be absolutely bloody delicious.
Speaker 1:Or what was your one? Tim Tam Slam Tim.
Speaker 2:Tam Slam, it's go out and support fortified wines and it's the sort of thing that you have when you're having a large number of people over, because you know a couple of glasses of that and you're done. We don't tend to drink them as much. You know drink driving and responsible service of alcohol, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. It's not very expensive.
Speaker 1:Here's what you do you get a group of friends. You're booking an Airbnb somewhere in, like the snow.
Speaker 2:Light a fire.
Speaker 1:Like blah or like Hotham Threadbow vibes An Airbnb open fire. Get yourself some of this and I'll sip it by the fire Get some chocolate cheese, all of that.
Speaker 2:You sit up, you talk about solve the problems of the world. If you've got cigars rip out.
Speaker 1:Yep, I agree. Yeah, and that is what you're going to do with this and we should be drinking more of them.
Speaker 2:Um, they and this is australia's wine heritage. You know that they've been made for as long as we've been making wine in this country. In fact, we started off making these styles of wines. So get out there.
Speaker 1:It's very look, I've just looked this up on dance it's 35 bucks. That's for a full bottle.
Speaker 2:That's ridiculous that's 750 mil that's crazy.
Speaker 1:It is serious. I don't really understand how it's that cheap. Also, they use the term nutty rants, you know oh my god, they do too. Look at you, man muster fun. Must have fun. That explains it, I know, I know. So definitely worth doing and definitely worth doing in that exact scenario in which we yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:If you're going to go to the effort to buy these, which you should you need to be sunken low in your lounge suite.
Speaker 1:You need to have time Like a leather chair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, time to enjoy them, your uggies on blanket over your knees.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have a little sip of this. This is like my dessert, I think, just like throughout the week.
Speaker 2:That's what you could do after dinner. That'll put you to sleep. Yeah, put a little bit of Billy a little bit.
Speaker 1:Naughty, maybe not. We're going to be back next week with another wine. If we get cancelled, we're going to be back with another wine news episode. We've got a huge week planned. We have guest Nick Ryan, who's going to be talking about taking on the Australian wine column. We've got Lee McLean, who's going to be talking to us about all the lobbying that's been done in China with China opening. So it's going to be a really jam-packed news episode. We'll see you then, but until then, enjoy your next glass of wine. Drink well, boom.
Speaker 2:Boom, that cat just has to turn up Stop.