Leverage Curiosity & Manage Imposter Syndrome W/Therapist Anna Hindell

1. Anna’s IG
   1. https://www.instagram.com/annahindellpsychotherapy/
2. Anna’s interview / article referenced 
   1. https://medium.com/authority-magazine/women-in-wellness-anna-hindell-on-the-five-lifestyle-tweaks-that-will-help-support-peoples-cd9822128a67
   2. 
      
3. Help people connect whats going on in their bodies with what's going on in their minds
4. The pro’s and perils of dealing with New Yorkers
5. Connecting with the body as the tool to come into the present
   1. Body Scans
6. Avg person is unaware of messages from their body
   1. E.g. Noticing the breath
   2. Awareness prior to change
   3. Holding breath when under pressure
   4. E.g.’s Include a client w/ social anxiety.
7. How can we leverage curiosity
   1. Why do I need to be curious if I just need to know if I should stay in my job.
   2. Being curious helps you to confront your ‘inner judge’
8. Imposter syndrome : Correlation w/social media
   1. Business decisions
9. I elaborate on lesions from Boundaries
   1. It helps to leverage a sense of accountability when one feels tension with boundaries
10. Pick your friends, Love your family
11. Making peace with ‘needing people’, especially those who accept us as we are
12. The importance of ‘candid friends’ and making important life decisions
13. Clean out the closet before you sort it out

My five “lifestyle tweaks” are as follows:

Develop a relationship with your body that includes movement that is fun, convenient, and affordable so you can do it for life. I see the all-or-nothing mentality cycle with movement and exercise. The body we have is the one we’ve got and movement is vital for feeling balanced, energized, and creative.

Take time throughout the day to check in with your body and listen to what it is telling you. These qualities can serve you well, and then pay attention to the messages your body tells you about your needs and wants.

Cultivate curiosity. You can apply this anywhere and you likely won’t be bored. And if you are bored, stay curious about the feeling!

Surround yourself with people you love and who accept you unconditionally. This is vital as we are such goal-oriented people, especially as professionals and hardworking people in New York City. If you get into the striving-to-improve mentality, you can forget about the person on the way to their goals. Sometimes you need the people who love you to remind you how great you are.

Don’t give up on yourself and don’t think you need to go it alone: keep working on your own personal development even through challenging and scary times. Find a therapist or mentor to help you along your way as we all need support.

We have lost the art of curiosity and presence while being with other people. From this communication comes empathy, understanding, and connection — the opposite of loneliness and isolation. I would start a movement designed to build connection between people

Instagram

https://sproutspout.com/

Transcript

  📍  hi, it's Daniel Lucas. And thank you for joining chasing energy today. I'm your host. This is episode number 40. For wow, 44. I would love it. If you could subscribe to the channel, especially through your podcast listening choice, we are on almost every platform, including audible, Spotify, all those. 

And maybe just sort of follow the show from time to time. If you could leave me a feedback on this episode, that would be great to review. Anna Hindle is the guest. And I'm excited about this because she is a therapist in New York now. The reason I'm excited is because some of the most inspiring people I know. 

Chris and Michelle Lauren Clemente. I'm talking to you. These are people who set a benchmark for performance and quite frankly, having an amazing and inspiring amount of work-life balance that makes me really want to step up my game. When I think about how I make excuses to not do this podcast in my free time. 

Or give it the, give it more time. These are people I think of and go look at how much they're accomplishing. Well, That very much plays in today's episode, because I wanted to talk to someone specifically about how therapists deal with people in New York, where expectations are higher for performance, for what you can and what you're capable of. 

I was going to say what you can do. And. I know some of that might be a little bit of a stereotype, but in my experience, they definitely expect more from themselves and they're very productive people. Well, how do you manage being a therapist? And in Anna's case. Uh, a therapist who also teaches yoga. 

Uh, and help these people to achieve. What they're wanting to do and still have a little bit of peace and calm in the process. And that's what we sort of untangled today. So here is a quick, uh, Rundown, uh, I've put Anna's Instagram and, uh, an interview. She just did right at the top of the show notes. If you want to open that, and what we get into today is, um, helping you connect, how, what are the exercises you can do to help connect with what's going on in your body and mind? 

And some of that is a body scans and how she leverages that. There's also an exercise we talk about where she actually has them literally changed chairs to talk to different parts of what you might be confronting within yourself. I thought that was a great literal example. Uh, sort of talking to the different voices that are competing for your attention in your head. 

Noticing your breath. And identifying what causes it to change when you think about certain things. Uh, we do a, a pretty deep dive. On. Leveraging curiosity. And specifically, in terms of how do you leverage curiosity against imposter syndrome? Now that's not something I've heard anywhere before. So I was actually kind of proud that the conversation went that way. 

And then there's a little bit of a lesson there on tension and boundaries and kind of how to identify when our boundaries are being violated or we're not doing what's in alignment with what we feel is best. Thank you so much for listening today, Anna, it was such a pleasure to connect with you and I can't wait to do it again, to be honest. 

Have a great day. Thank you for listening to Jason energy. 



Oh, and one last note I wanted to hit before we. Get started. I was sick as a dog when I recorded this interview. If you ever see clips from it, you will see an herbal tea. And the other thing is that I always stand for all my interviews. This was the first interview I sat down for because I couldn't even stand up and not be exhausted. So you'll hear me. 

Sort of struggling to, you know, get words out of my mouth from time to time. I apologize for that. My throat was so sore and I had to cut out a lot of the coughing second segments. So I do apologize for that. And what I did take from it, cause it was. A learning moment was I have actually gone against my energy level and started sitting down for interviews because I found it to be a little bit more personable. I don't know that I'll do it every time, but. 

I've noticed I've maybe done four interviews since this one, which was around the holidays and I have started sitting for interviews. So it did cause me to change a little bit of my approach to how I talk to people. Again, I hope you enjoy the podcast. I was. Right in the middle of going through COVID when I did this interview. So I do apologize for that.  

  📍 

 📍 Anna Hinde, welcome to Chasing Energy. How are you today from New York.

good. Thanks, Daniel. I'm really happy to be here.

Oh, I'm, and I'm so grateful that we were able to connect and, uh, that you're bearing with me today in my  current condition. Um, thank you for making time. I, I'm so excited to, to have you on the show. Can you tell people a little bit about what you. In terms of your therapy 

sure. Yeah. Uh, so I am a Gest therapist and Iyengar yoga teacher, and I like to say I help people connect what's going on in their body with what's going on in their mind. Um, You know, I think people think of therapy as just sitting on the couch and talking, but the approach, which is really rooted in Gelle theory as well as yoga, the practice, and the theory is really about including the body. Is really the house of the emotion, and it's the body that informs the mind. So I essentially work with people to get them more in touch with their physical experience, which really takes them into the present and just a more grounded and connected state of being in the world. And it's really from there, from that connection. We can get informed about what we feel and what we want, and from there we make decisions about our life and what direction to move in. So it's ex an exploration. It's really, I work with people to help them get to know themselves so they can then figure out what's best for them. you know, definitely not my job to have answers, but just to help them get to know what's right for them.

When you mentioned that part about the answers, uh, you being in New York, do you find that, um, people are generally more interested in like QuickTime turnarounds for, for maybe dealing with a high stress situation

my God. A hundred

in, in.

there. It's like, it's like, and I've got it too. I mean, I think everyone's in a rush here. You know, I always think us New Yorkers are friendly. We just got somewhere to go. um, but there's definitely.

Yeah.

I think there can be a real hustle type of mentality here. You know, even if you've got your job, even if you're secure at your job, there's just a lot of, like seemingly there's a right thing to do, a better thing, to get a real striving mentality, is good and serves us well if we use that and we're aware of that and we know how to. Turn it off so we can be present and chill out

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Now you're, you're sort of tying into how your yoga practice, uh, sort of intertwines there with the turning off. Can you talk to me a little bit? I, I know that when, when we had talked earlier, You help people connect with what's going on in their bodies with what's going on to their minds.

Can you tell me some of the cues that you sort of, uh, help people tune into as to, uh, unlock that there is their body is trying to send a message to them that maybe something's not going right or there's a conflict of interest.

sure. Well, you know, work therapy 1 0 1 is like meet the client where they're at. So, you know, people come to therapy with a story and that story could be, marriage is falling apart or I can't seem to stay in a job, or I just got a

Mm-hmm.

or on and on. And. People often don't know why things have happened that way, and they wanna help understand their part and they often don't know what they're feeling except, unless it's like the big things. Well, I was crying, so it's sad was really angry. So, you know, someone comes in and. within the content. I'd like to kind of slow them down. All right, so as you sit there, what do you notice about your breath? And it looks like you're breathing really shallow. This is an example of what I might mirror to someone. So it's in the live experience of me being in the room with them, them being with me, that I can see them, kind of see what's happening, notice them, but then kind of guide them to. do you feel the weight of your seat in the couch? Do you feel your back against the couch? know, even just these big, seemingly obvious cues that bring awareness to their body starts to get them in touch with, oh God.

When I think about my partner, I feel really hurt. and then you know, that may be connected with a shallow breath or they may feel the tightness of the chest. And I really encourage people to stay with that cuz there's something that unfolds by just staying with what's present.

Right. So this, this leads me to what you had suggested to a lot of your clients, which is learning how to properly do a body scan.

Right, right. So I think it's, you know, this is something anyone can do on their own. And I'll often do this even as I'm walking or sitting with my clients, dropping your awareness, a progressive body scan. And a scan is really just kind of a going over. once you know your body, but doing it in such a way that you really start to get a sense of the feeling. So it could start with, okay, Daniel, press your feet against the floor, or wiggle them. Wiggle your toes in your shoes. Do you start to feel where your feet meet your shoes now Feel the weight of your legs on your chair. You know? Do you feel like you're slouching down? now can you press your thighs down and kind of lengthen up through the sides of your trunk, from your hips to your armpits, and then feel the broadness from the center of the chest to the sides. And I could like go into your breath and even the muscles of your face. So here's a way. that at any point in time with a little bit of practice, you know, and that was like a minute less to just start to feel what's happening for me in this moment.

Mm-hmm. . When, when clients do this and, and we, we'll, I'm assuming this is kind of like a stage one. Uh, what type of initial findings do you, do you kind of latch onto or disregard when they, when they report something? Can you give us some examples of things they may feel

Yeah, sure,

they, when they do that?

Um, You know, I, I don't ever disregard it. I think it's such a sub, it's a subjective experience. So, okay. What, what are you giving me? What are you noticing? Um, I think you know, it, it reminds me of what you asked me about New Yorkers and the hustle and bustle, you know, even coming into a therapy session. there's, what did I just come from and what's waiting for me after? And our minds are usually there. It's like, I've got

you know, half the time

vibe, oh God, it's another thing to do.

I wanna be here, but it's

and I gotta get to this. So it's really a way to just. Okay, let's notice where your mind is. Is it over there? Is it at lunch when we are like in 9:00 AM or is it, you know, in yesterday at that conversation you had with your colleague that really bothered you. But here we are now, so co let's, let's bring more of ourselves into this moment to see what is. And maybe you're feeling some frustration about yesterday, or maybe you're anxious about later, and all of that is interesting. If you can start to get curious and pay attention, because the tendencies that show up in the therapeutic session and in the relationship generally I'd put money on are the things that come up in the rest of people's lives. Sort of familiar patterns.

Right. And, and I, I'll mention that, uh, I have read some of your literature on developing curiosity a and how that's, I know that's something that I, I've been talking about lately in the sense that, uh, es, especially when you get past this, On Maslow's hierarchy where you've got, you know, you, your room and board and food are kind of covered, right?

Um, it's easy to get stuck and, and when I think of curiosity, I think of it as like a secret weapon towards like getting creative solutions that are not necessarily tied to a clear carrot and stick mentality. In other words, I'm enjoying the process of pulling this cart. I'm present with pulling this. , I feel pulling this car as opposed to just saying, I just want to get to the carrot that's in front of me.

So when you, when you talk about curiosity to some of your clients, which again, given, given where your practice is, I imagine that curiosity is kind of often snubbed off as a childish type thing. Um, every, when we're children, we're very curious naturally.

Um.

but I, I feel like. . It's a little bit disregarded as we get older that it's, well, that's not a clear goal.

of

That's there's not a clear, yeah.

to get curious when I just need to figure out if I should stay or leave my job? You know,

Right.

do I need to get curious about what I'm feeling if I have to make this leader or, you know, so, But for the most part, you know, when I think people really and invite curiosity when that critic comes in, when that judger, when it's like, okay, I'm having a feeling, then I'm somehow layering on that, it's the wrong feeling, know? Um, like whatever. I'm at a party and I'm really not having fun. Oh, there's, you know, there's something wrong with me. You know, I'm the only one at the funeral not crying. There's something wrong with me as these examples. that's a really beautiful place where I could say, you know what, Daniel, let's just put that judger to the side right now and stay curious about the initial feeling like, oh,

not having fun at a. Maybe there's something about the party that's not so interesting to you or the people are not so fun for you. look at that.

Yeah. Yeah. And I can, I can relate to that sentiment. Um, when you, when one, uh, becomes a bit of a homebody and you get in a routine of going home every night, it's certain an hour, then you go to a party. . It, it, I, I, I feel that same tendency to go, okay, I've been here for 30 minutes. I can leave now. I wanna leave now.

But the curiosity part of me is going, why do you feel, what do you think is waiting for you when you leave here? It's just a habit that, you know, there's, uh, a process and a routine waiting for you when you get home. And, uh, but also, um, I don't want to digress about me.

I'm, I'm

The,

your

the,

like, maybe there's something really

okay. Um, I think that the thing about the routine of, you know, well, I get home and then I make my own dinner and then I stretch for a while and then I write and then I go to bed or play music, which is very one, and then I go to bed.

But what I will say to that is, The other part of me looks at things and says, you know, in order for you to grow your circle of friends, in order for you to grow your network, in order for you to express empathy for others, you have got to be in a setting that en engages that. And emails is not a, so a substitute for that.

So I find myself in this position where I go, you know what? I know that it's more comfortable to just go on home and skip this or make it short, but the other part of me says it will be more fulfilling if you connect with one person today. Can you connect with one person? So that's a, a typical, um, sort of dichotomous decision.

Making that I get, that I get stuck in when I'm curious with, with myself, if you will. Um, imposter syndrome. I can only imagine. And I keep going back to where you are, uh, because I, I only in the last few years did I start spending time in New York.  and the, the one, the one stereotype I'd already always heard was how fast they walk.

And, and it wasn't a problem for me because, um, I was a very, uh, big time, uh, runner at the time, so I was like, , I can walk as fast as anyone out there. So that, I enjoyed that, that people had a place to go and they were, they were determined. So there were a lot of, lot of that. But what I want you to elaborate on is a little bit about imposter syndrome and how you kind of walk your clients through that.

And, and by the way, Nowhere New York. I, I have definitely struggled with imposter, especially when I left my job at 20 years and went to a different role. I thought to myself, they're gonna find out I'm a fraud. They're gonna find out that I don't know anything. I've been under this sort of shell, um, which turned out to be a, one of the most wonderful growth experiences for me.

Um, so what I'd like you to talk about is how do you help people, um, in this, in that type of high pressure environment to say you. Be curious about why you felt like an imposter.

and. I'm gonna say this can exist high pressure or not, and you, you probably know that, and I've traveled and been around, um, the world. I think that it's a different posture syndrome shows up slightly different flavor for everyone, but there's usually something about, I'm not good enough, I'm not.

Right, and so let me clarify when I talk about New York, I think the difference between that and say an another general area is that the expectations for somebody tend to be higher. So I, I could see imposter syndrome being bigger there because. There's a lot of areas where if you, the expectations in New York are higher than I think most, any, any place.

I think what you're, and, and it's interesting, it makes me think of the word boundaries because so much of the work that I do with people that have imposter syndrome and, and that sort of expresses itself as not good enough. So I'm gonna work harder and faster and do more to try to prove myself and then reach that. And this is not

Yeah.

executives. This could be for. Administrative assistants or a photo assistant. It's just like it's taking that I'm not good enough and applying it to, with a little bit of shame on top of it, which it makes it such a secret, you know? And that secret gets buried and hidden, and then that feeling and imposter syndrome gets even bigger. So, You know, I end up actually working with a lot of people on boundaries this sort of the boundary of, um, look at how you make yourself ragged and you keep yourself in this situation. And so a would be stopping working at 7:00 PM or 6:00

Mm-hmm.

and then, you know, a lot of insecurity will come up. You know, I can't do that. And I think slowly, um, guess this is a L one sort of indirect way of getting into it, but it's starting to pay attention to your needs. I'm

Yeah.

I don't feel good the way that I'm living my life, the way that I'm conducting myself, it's getting driven by this feeling and thought that you probably learned at a young age in one way or another. we may do a little exploration there and then really kind of dissect and get to the bottom of like where you learned this whole story of not being good enough. you know, and then how you keep it alive and how, and then there's a lot of like both what do you want, but to cultivate that empathy and compassion for yourself, is like a really big process.

But it really is, are the ingredients to start to. Feel like you're valid and worthy, and someone who can say, I need to stop working at six because I matter, or I need to leave this relationship because I matter. So, you know, it's kind of, it goes back to curiosity. Even with imposter syndrome, it's like, wow, let's not just go on. autopilot with this moreness because what you're doing is feeling the same way except making yourself exhausted and running yourself down. And kind of get into the curiosity of like, what are you feeling? What's it about? Is this what you want? And slowly from there, and a lot of that is like feelings from the body emerging. It's from there. We

Yeah,

You know, like, don't really like this job.

I, I. I can certainly see this line of questioning is this, is this what you just, you just said, is this what you want? Where's this going? I can certainly see being in your chair and saying things like, well, it's not what I really want, but I'm willing to go through it right now to get what I want. Uh, eventually, and uh, I say that.

is, uh, especially with boundaries. It's so funny you you bring that up. Uh, that was my number one learning lesson from this year was I read that book, uh, front to Back Boundaries and uh, uh, it was really started off so corny and I was, I was really about to skip that book cuz their examples were kind of dated and, uh, but it turned out to be, Much more.

One of those things that came in very, uh, generic, but hit home in a lot more ways than I ever could have counted on. But with boundaries, we talk about needs and permissions. Um, and my mistake is that I based a lot of my boundaries as being sort of endless. Like I could, I can give as much as needs to be given to others.

Uh, and I base that on.  in some ways. My father, my late father, um, and only at the after, you know, things sort of whatever with the relationship or one of the things I was working on sort of fell apart over the years, uh, have I sort of came to this epiphany that I held him in such high esteem because he seemed to have an endless repository for patients and things like that.

But I also ignored the, the, the consequences that happened. I, I was thinking of a very specific period.  young life with my father and not how my father, eventually, his boundaries were violated and it, there were dire, dire consequences. So I kind of took that and said, you know, you've held onto this segment of someone who had endless boundaries to serve.

In my, in my case, my issue is I just can't stop serving. And, uh, I don't, I, I get uncomfortable when it's, when people do things for me. Um, and then I, what I was doing was I was ignoring. That there's got to be some type of repercussion at some point, some type of burnout. And uh, going back to what you were just saying, I could see me sitting on your chair and saying, well, yeah, this isn't what I want, but I'm willing to go through it right now to get what I want.

So this, this very enlightening in a lot of ways. I appreciate it.

okay, well let's see. You're doing that with awareness. Okay, so you get to take responsibility for that then. And

absolutely.

know, I think that can sometimes be the start of change. You know, even that shift from, you know, and I'm not saying it about you, but just anyone of. this thing that I do to, I'm doing this and I'm taking responsibility, and I know I run myself ragged and I endlessly give, but this is what works for me right now. It's like, okay.

I, I think, I think the problem of not adding in that part about responsibility is that you are almost destined to repeat the same mistakes if you can't. Learned to take that accountability and ownership of the consequences that have come from it. So it's one thing, it's one thing to sit here and feel good about, you know, uh, doing body scans, I feel a little better.

I'm taking deep breathing. But then what I'm, what I'm grasping is at some point you need to learn as to how, whether it was the way you were brought up, whether it was your morals, your implications, uh, That, that it's leading you down a path that's causing you problems and own owning that. So I'm responsibility and accountability for, for not enforcing your boundaries, I guess is what I'm saying, uh, makes it to me, uh, much more easier to, to go through that discomfort of enforcing them and saying, no, I'm not gonna do this.

This is not the person I am you. You've, you've asked me for this like three times in the last three weeks, and I told you the last time was the last time. So, um, that to me is the uncomfortable part. Those conversations where you say, I can't do this anymore, but the only way that I can do that is to think about I own the accountability of the consequences that have I've done to myself and, and indirectly others.

this, this is actually making me think about, you asked at the beginning, like a little bit, tell me what Gestalt is and so I'll do the like little

here that, so gestalt's type of psychotherapy and it means whole and. The idea is really that as, as humans in the world, we're, we're always striving to, to feel whole. Yet we exist in all these parts and we show up in these parts. And as a Gelle therapist, you know, when you talk to me about You know, is a little bit of a conflict. I wanna keep going and keep going. I wanna stop, so I might kind, I help people kind of tease out these different voices. like, okay, there's the masochistic voice.

You're just gonna keep going, dig your heels in no matter what. Doesn't matter. But let's bring out what. What the other side of you says, and can we have a dialogue? And I literally, and this is a very gestalt thing, I didn't make it up, you know, I literally will have you in the seat then I have you move over to the other chair and kind of imagine and really get this dialogue

Mm-hmm.

I think what you know it.

when they move to the other chair, are they to take an opposing side of a particular issue?

and you

Okay.

it feels like to be that masochist and really that slave driving, you know, voice that you have. And then you kind of come over and then you embody the like, but I'm really tired and I really wanna break. And

Yeah.

know, that's another way of. Coming into the present, taking on some curiosity. And I find that it really leaves people to kind of tease out the, that these are different sides versus, oh, it's just the thing I do, you know, because it's like, well, it's really, it's really complicated actually. And they're, and, and then we get to kind. Get into a little bit of perhaps the healthier side that's actually wanting a boundary that might not be

because you're just not used to

ju just the thing I do and just the way I am, this is just the way I.

of, oh, I'm this type of person who, I just do this thing, it's like, well, we're not really machines like that. We always have choice and we always have, but it's. It's always, it's about really slowing yourself down. Bring yourself into awareness of like, what am I doing? How am I doing it? Am I, ma, what, what choices am I making?

Yeah. You know, um, it's a bit of a jump, but it reminds me of growth versus fixed mindset. When you go, when you say, this is just the way I am, this is just the way I do things. Whereas, uh, which is a bit, it's a fixed mindset. That is what it is. It,

know?

this is what I do, this is what I'm good at. I'm not good at this.

I'll never be good at this. Um,

Yeah.

like that. I could never play a, i I just did a solo lecture podcast on growth versus fixed mindset, but that book's been around forever. Carol Dweck. Um, and I generally recommend people read that first and then get it go on to things like grit and because those are more built upon the idea of you've sort of mastered, or at least.

Term master, you understand mindset, growth versus fixed. And then you can start to, to add on some of the, the steps that come with that. Uh, one of the things I was looking up while you were talking, um, there, I've heard this book, uh, movie referenced in, um, several books that I've read lately, and it's called Inside Out.

Have you heard

Oh.

that it?

I've

Yeah. Inside Out. So it's, uh, it's from Pixar and the, the reason I bring it up, it comes, it apparently, it wasn't like a huge hit or anything, but I remember watching the movie and saying, this is a very advanced concept for, for children. And so it's the basic is, uh, premise is this.

Uh, and I know we have, we have like 10 minutes left, so I need to be quick. It's the little girl. And then what you're, the movie is about all the different emotions inside her head and their, their characters and how joy, fear, happiness, and all those play a role, uh, nostalgia. Uh, and then the dominant emotion will make her or cause her to do a certain thing, anger, for example, and.

When I think about that, I think of like, when I'm facing a situation, I, I think in my head and go, okay, which one of these emotions is really trying to tug at me right now? Why am I feeling compelled to do this or not compelled to do this in a particular case? Why do I feel like I have to leave this party right now?

Isn't this just,

timely. Here we are coming into the holidays, going to family things, seeing lots of friends. And you know, you get in front, you get in the party with your family members. This one rubs you the wrong way. And that one rubs just, you know, went down that whole storyline again. And it's like all these different triggers. And that's a place where, you know, my sense, it's like it's really healthy to be like, I'm feeling a little irritated by you. You're doing your thing. But am

like act on that? No. I'm gonna, you know, be an adult and breathe and smile and like, excuse myself and go get a drink or something, you know?

Right, right. This is why people do dry January. Not dry December, by the way,

Or get your seltzer water, whatever it may be. But

Yeah.

um, It's like good to feel your feelings, be aware of 'em. Prep yourself for what you think will happen. You might feel less of 'em if you know what's coming and you know, humor always helps with this stuff too.

Absolutely. And one of the things I always lean on because it seems like, um, actually it doesn't seem, I'm quite certain. In the last five to 10 years, uh, family gatherings have become much more frictional if, if you aren't politically aligned with a, with a, with an issue versus, uh, 10 or 15 years ago, it was kind of like a conversation one or two people would have.

It wasn't the main sort of topic, but what I always lean back on Anna, when I have that friction is I always say, you pick your friends, you love your family. Um, I don't have to agree with you, but you're my cousin, my brother, my mother, whatever. We're, we're gonna work this. We're, we're gonna be dealing with each other.

Now that doesn't mean that I feel the need to retort or anything like that, and in fact it often, often it's just, I listen cuz they're wanting to talk. ,

One of the things in your article that you talk about is, uh, surrounding yourself with people you love and accept you unconditionally. Um, this is vital as we are such a goal-oriented people in New York City. Can you elaborate a little bit on that?

Yeah. You know, it does kind of get into what we're talking about with family. It's like I think of it. you get to pick your friends and your community. Those are almost like your

Mm-hmm.

And, um, you know, gestalt is, is a very relational And one thing that I love teaching yoga so much, but there's, it's not as relational in that will teach a class. there's not, and I get the information from how a person is moving and their face and if they are, um, focused or distracted. But in the therapeutic, um, room is, there's this really back and forth, uh, it's experience with someone and. That helps us feel ourselves. Like, I can see you looking at me, and I can feel you.

I can feel myself. I see you nodding. And that makes me feel more of myself in my chair. um, you know, the, the small of it is like we need people. But I think sometimes our egos or, um, the way that we're not like raised in villages anymore, there can be this layer of like, wish I didn't need people, or needing people is not good, or I don't wanna need people. And I'm like, oh, let's be curious about that. It feels good actually to be with people who really accept us as we are and take our good with our bad and our bad with our good, and hopefully we do that with the other people in our life that we choose. So all of that I think is like food for the soul and it's just as important as. our sleep and how we eat. And if we move our bodies, it's like, are the people in our life feeding us and are we kind of relating and feeding them in the way that works too? So, you know, that's all to say. It's just another, um, way to kind of enjoy your life. Right? Like, we got one, we got one ride here. We gotta kinda. take stock of like what's working and how to have a little fun, right? Isn't that the point?

Yeah. Yeah. And by take stock, I go back to, uh, reflection and responsibility and accountability of what, what you find about yourself or what is not working.

And.

So when you, when you talk about having one life, it's like, well, I don't want to keep doing the things that don't make me happy.

right. And like sometimes that calls for the fluidity of like, this person is just no longer serving me, or, or I'm really

Yeah,

this person didn't me in her life. But

yeah.

deal with that feeling, you know.

Well said Anna. You know, um, I think of a, a comment from Bene Brown that, uh, it, it, uh, There's a comment that you, you hear shared from time to time is do do what you want without ever worrying about what other people think. And I've never really quite agreed with that or gotten on board with it.

I think it's a little, um, a little shallow. Um, but what she says is, you should have on your right hand the five people that you do care, that, that, that, that, um, that, that you do care what they think about you. When you make a decision, but it shouldn't be a super long list of everybody in your, so if you're gonna make some big, if Anna's gonna make some big life-changing decision, right?

There should be a couple of people that she goes, I, I kind of want to know what they think about this, as opposed to just saying, this is how I feel today. And no matter what anyone else says, um, we don't have to dig into that. Um, I want to be respectful of your time.

sometimes, you know, we can't look out for ourselves if we're in a bad way and it's like, well we, we need people to look out for us and have our best interest.

Of course. Yeah. Keep us on track. I, I, I have a, I have a habit whenever I go to my friends , I am, I am not a typical person when I go to my friends for advice in the sense that I always go, please don't be nice to me. Please don't tell me what I want to hear. I was like, please tell me what in your, in your gut

want the

I'm, yes, it.

Well, it just feels like when, when most people talk to their friends, what they're really wanting is a, a. Sympathy and not empathy. Um, you know, to feel, oh, I want you to feel sorry for me and tell me I'm doing the best I can. Right? And there's probably a time and place for that when you're really low. But for the most part, what I need is bumper rails to say, don't let me get too far off track.

If I'm, if I'm off on a tangent here and I'm the only one that sees it, you need to pull me back in. Now, there's only certain people that I'll go to and say that to. I'm not gonna say that to every.

people that really know you. Yeah. Yeah,

much, pretty much. So, Anne Anna, where can people find you? Uh, by the way, I did watch a few, uh, for those listening.

Um, if you go to her Instagram channel, she walks you through a couple of breathing exercises, uh, of how to basically, um, kind of a body scan, but more starting with the breath.

have a website, anna hindel.com, and I've got those body scans on there. I've got some therapy tips. I've got a little bit more about my approach and how to reach me.

Anna, this has been such a blessing. Thank you for making time to connect and, uh, being such a trooper and, and being patient with me today. I can't wait to share this interview with my friends in, in the New York area. Um, and, and kind of maybe a, yeah, yeah.

 📍 hearing your stories too. Get a little insight into you at

and I, I think I'm with you

Yeah.

wanting

Yeah, wanting to get home. Thank you, Anna.

care.