Breathing and Behaviors to Achieve 'Beast Mode' W/Alex Neist

Chasing Energy: Boosting Health through Mindset, Nutrition, and Training with Alex Neist

PRESENTED BY Sprout Spout: Your Gateway to Superfoods on Tap
https://sproutspout.com/
Use code 'CE' @ Checkout for 10% off your purchase

The Red Light therapy we discuss can be found here


In this episode of Chasing Energy, the host interviews Alex Nice, founder of Hostage Tape, discussing various strategies for optimizing health, including mindset, nutrition, and training. Key topics include the importance of having a purpose, the impact of sleep on joy and energy, nasal breathing, and a unique routine involving red light therapy, cold plunges, and limited eating. They explore the value of stoicism, insights from authors like Chris Voss and Simon Sinek, and the branding strategy behind Hostage Tape. Alex shares his personal fitness regimen and the role of Hostage Tape in improving sleep quality, highlighting its success and upcoming expansion into retailers like Sobeys in Canada and potentially Walmart.

00:00 Morning Reflections and Purpose
00:58 Introduction to the Guest: Alex, Founder of Hostage Tape
03:27 The Importance of Sleep and Overcoming Challenges
08:08 Daily Routine and Fitness Insights
12:08 Diet and Nutrition Strategies
21:36 The Core of Stoicism: Controlling Reactions
25:29 Navigating Difficult Conversations with Chris Voss
27:45 Balancing Critique and Affirmation in Relationships
30:22 Scaling Business with Traction
33:14 The Success of Hostage Tape
39:55 Future Plans and Retail Expansion
41:08 Final Thoughts and Gratitude

Alex's Webpage
https://hostagetape.com/

Alex's IG
Alex Neist (@alexneist) • Instagram photos and videos

Instagram

https://sproutspout.com/

Transcript

 

​

  📍  📍  📍 when you look in the mirror in the morning, What is your why  when you think about the impact that you are trying to make 

  📍  📍  📍 You have to have a purpose in life  and you have to put that above almost everything else.  📍 ....

uh,   📍  📍  📍 I used to tell people it's almost impossible to experience joy. If you had two nights with, uh, without sleep. 

  📍  📍  📍 the idea of experiencing joy, which is like a sporadic fulfillment, um, It's almost impossible when you're fatigued like that.

Um, 





And   📍  📍  📍 I'm  📍 really intentional about nasal breathing,  keeping my mouth shut. 

So, and then, um,   📍  📍  📍 So along with all of that, I also only eat once a day.

 📍 

  📍  📍  📍 don't ruin your joints. That's the number one rule. If you want to lift when you're old, don't ruin your joints. 



  📍  📍  📍  📍 great brands have polarity. You either love it or you hate it. And we did that by  📍 design. 

  📍  📍  📍  📍  📍  📍  Hello,  📍 and welcome to episode number 52 of chasing energy. And I'm so super excited. This guest actually reached out to me and I was shocked and humbled and honored to have an opportunity to connect with them. Alex. Nice. And he is the founder of hostage tape.  During this interview, we will cover. I'm very proud of the fact that we covered mindset. Nutrition and training in addition to what Alex's company does for your health. 

So, w I felt like this was one of those interviews where the experience is really starting to pay off, and we hit all those sort of round Robin topics that I wanted to cover. And I hope you'll enjoy this one as much as I did. I learned a ton from it. , Look forward to bringing it to you.  Are you one of those people who find yourself going, man, I know I need to get better nutrition, but right now this is all I can do today is to grab this ball or to pack this snack.   Would I want to encourage you to do is go to sprout spout.com and look at the sprouts bout this invention was something I jotted down on a napkin during COVID and a three years and 13 prototypes later, we won't talk about how much money it costs. , to bring this product to market, but it's here and what it is is in 30 seconds or less a day, you have superfoods on tap on any kitchen countertop. 

I'd love for you to have a look at the sprout spout. And most importantly, what I'd love to do is help wellness be more accessible to you. And that's what we do with this podcast. We bring you nutrition training and mindset insights, because it takes all three of those to live a life. Worth living. So without further ado here is Alex.  

 

So good to have you on Chasing Energy, man. Thanks for making the time to be here.

 Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. I always love talking shop.

Okay. We are going to talk shop today, man. And we have actually a lot of hobbies that run over and overlap and you're a little further along than me in a lot of ways, but, um, except for age. But, um, 

You might be surprised. How old do you think I am?

I think we're about the same age. I'm 47.

 Yeah, I'm 45.

Yeah. Um, I think I've got like a, I was thinking I had you bested by like a year or two, but  I'm using the 

Most people are like, when I

say I'm 45, they're like, wow, I never would've guessed that I would've guessed you're like, you know, mid, uh, lower. 30s.

cheated because I've heard, I've heard so many podcasts where you're talking about, you went through this at the age of 40 and, and things like that. So I knew there was some history there, but yeah, um, you're, you're looking great for the part. 

Well, thank you. 

So, um, we were just sharing this, uh, but let's, let's kick it off first by talking about, uh, we're both huge fans of James Nestor, right.

And it was a huge inspiration for how you wanted to create change. Um, tell me exactly when you look in the mirror in the morning, What is your why  when you think about the impact that you are trying to make when you think of Simon Sinek? Like start with your why  I know you're big into mindset and manifestation and things like that.

So I'm asking the question What do you look at your mission in life in terms of what you're trying to accomplish with this? 

so that, that's a good one. Like I think when you, you know, when you're a man and, and you grow up and you become a man older in life,  you have to find your mission. You have to find your passion. And I think too many young kids, too many young, young men  aren't taught that they aren't taught that you have to find your mission, right?

You have to have a purpose in life  and you have to put that above almost everything else. Yes.  To be a man, you have to embrace that. What's your mission? And I think for me,  my mission  is  Well, it was football. As you can see, I've got these jerseys on the wall. My first love was football. So my mission for the first half, for the first quarter, or, you know, two of my life, was to be the best quarterback, to be the best football player I could be. And then now, as I've entered this, I've Next stage of my life. It's, in many respects, to keep playing the game.  And here's what I mean by that. I love working. I'm a workaholic. I sit at my desk and I work 7 days a week. I definitely work Way more than  the average person does, but I love it, especially when I'm, I'm doing what I'm, what I'm choosing to do and I'm not working for somebody else, but I love playing the game of  building something  that actually serves this greater purpose.  And both of the businesses that I've started, they do that. They actually solve a really core problem that meets a large amount of people  And does it in a really interesting way and it's very close to me, right? So it's very close to my chest on, I'm not just picking something that I think  is going to make a lot of money. I'm choosing something that I've actually experienced that I've went through myself. And so I think that's my mission, man. My mission is to, I want to keep playing the game. I want to keep solving problems. I want to keep building things. 

Okay. So solving pain points is what I'm hearing in this. In this case, you're focusing on something that's close to your heart, which was sleep deprivation, snoring, things like that.

 Yeah. Well, actually,  yeah, that's almost, that's related to it, but I think it was motivated by the hitting rock bottom. You know, for me, hitting rock bottom, going through a divorce, a separation with my wife because I snored so bad, pushed her into the other bedroom. And on top of it, I was so focused on the business.

I was burnt out. I was out of shape because I was,  An entrepreneur wasn't sleeping well, wasn't taking care of myself. All that stuff adds into each other. And so then as a result, the first step of it was,  okay, I got to look at my sleep. And then I discovered James Nestor and then I went down this rabbit hole.

That's so great, man. It's funny how those, um, things creep into your life when you're, when you're open and aware to sort of absorb them. Things like James Nestor and people like Andrew Huberman. You know, talking about, uh, sleep is the foundation for everything, man. Where you look at the things you want to accomplish in life.

I used to tell people as someone who's a struggle with sleep deprivation, uh, I used to tell people it's almost impossible to experience joy. If you had two nights with, uh, without sleep. 

Yeah.

So when you think about going two nights without sleep, the idea of experiencing joy, which is like a sporadic fulfillment, um, It's almost impossible when you're fatigued like that.

Um, 

And I think we take it for granted too. Like  because it's, you know, we sleep a third of our lives and we kind of don't think much of, we don't think much of the fact that maybe I'm not getting very good sleep. And Oh, by the way, that's probably A huge reason why I'm not having a great day is because I just I actually did not set myself up. Well,

 And I think that, uh, again, to your point, there's a lot of information coming out about what is it that's within our power to optimize that. Whether it's in your case, you're talking about mouth tape. I know. Um, one of the things you're hearing a lot now is like drinking right before bread bed, huge mistake for, for a good night's rest.

Um,

yeah. Alcohol. You mean,

right?  

Yeah. If you're older drinking anything before bed, it'll affect you, but. That's for another day. So I want to talk to you a little bit. You stay in great shape and you're clearly an ex, your ex arena football player.  And, um, you, uh, you're the head of this health based company. So there's a little bit of accountability there and you're also a dedicated father.

I want to ask you a little bit about what is your typical week of training look like?

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, so I was just talking about this on the power project, uh, yesterday I was on with Mark Bellin and Seema. So my typical, my typical day, let's start with what, like a day, like a morning looks like. I'll usually get up around five 30.  And when I get up at five 30.  And what's up, what's ironic about that is for most of my life, it was not a morning person.  I slept in. I hated getting up, even into my like thirties,  I still couldn't get up early and I would stay up way too late. Right. And so now it's ironic. I completely shifted. I'm, and I'm the morning person of the family and I'm up way before everybody else. So I'll get up at five 30 and then I do red light therapy. So I have this big old red light

thing 

do I. Yeah.

four feet tall or whatever. Right. And I like to sit on the floor and I stretch and I'm like, I try to, I take my shirt off and I try to have the red light on as much skin as I can.  Sometimes I'll do it even like without  bottoms on because there's, I don't know who said it.

I don't know if it was a Ben Greenfield. Ben Greenfield might've said it where if you put red light on your lower region, it's really good for, for that area, especially as we get older as men, right? With our testosterone and everything. So sometimes I'll do that,  but I get a good, good amount of red light maybe for, for You know, 10, 10 minutes or so. And then, and I'm stretching too. I feel like the older that I get, the more I just really need to focus on. And I'm sitting in a computer, you know, so much. I do have a standing desk, so sometimes I'll

stand up, sometimes I'll sit down, but most of the time I'm sitting down. So I try to stretch. And try to stay limber  and, and then I'll do,  and when I do that too, another thing, I was talking to my son about this today,  I am, I like to look at what I do throughout the day.

Outside of work is am I producing or am I consuming?  And while I sit and I work on myself, rather than having the TV on and just playing a movie or something that I'm consuming, I actually like to watch documentaries.  where I'm consuming things that actually help me  production, right? So that's actually giving me information that at some point, maybe I can use that knowledge or use it then from, I'm learning something.

I'm filling my mind up with things I can learn by consuming that because I'm just sitting there and I'm, I'm doing some self work  and then I'll do, I'll go to, I'll drop my son off at school and then I do the sauna at the gym  and then I do the cold plunge.  And then I'll do, I'll come home and then I'll do a, three days a week, I'll do a three to five mile run.  And when I run,  I always wear a nose strip that you see here on my face. And I'm really intentional about nasal breathing,  keeping my mouth shut.  And, And then the other days of the week, I'm going into the gym and I'm getting some sort of resistance training in. I feel like the older that I was a football player at my whole life.

And so I've lived in the weight room pushing iron, all that stuff, and I'm well past those days that I feel like I don't. I don't need to build muscle anymore, but I want to look good and feel good. So I'll go in and I'll just do, I'll do a lot of different variations of pull ups, variations of just sort of machine things. I don't, I don't get on a bench anymore. I don't do Olympic lifts. I don't do cleans and squats, none of that kind of stuff. So, but enough that I get a really good pump of just some of the core things around my body. And in something that I learned when I was out,  actually talking to the power project guys was, you know, as I get older, my, my lower back  has been getting sore and sore, especially when I stand up and I'm not sitting down. And they were, they were teaching me a couple of things to think about. Uh, and one of them was,  to work on different rotational movements. It's like actually creating different  rotational movements of the spine and not staying neutral.  And so I thought I'd never heard that before. So that's something I'm going to start to look at working on with my morning routine is now, how can I work on non spine neutral things that can help so that my lower back doesn't maybe have any pain if I'm standing up for, you know, an hour and a half anymore. So, and then, um, So along with all of that, I also only eat once a day. I don't eat

two, three times a day and I'm taking a handful of different multivitamins  in the morning and in the afternoon. So I'm very, very intentional about taking  enough vitamin D multivitamins, probiotics, you know, resveratrol, um, all these different things, right. That I know my body needs that I'm probably not getting in a lot of the foods we eat anyways.  And especially if I'm eating once a day.  And so, and then I just avoid sugar. I try to avoid eating sugar and  I think the older I get, I'm not as strict about carbs as I used to be  when I lost a bunch of weight,  I'm just more intentional about like, I don't eat as much and I definitely try not to eat that much sugar.  So, but that's  pretty much a week for me when it comes to training

and kind of what I eat. 

Yeah. So, uh, thank you for sharing that. You actually knocked out like three questions that at once, which is great. Um, I'm really shocked at how similar we are, uh, because I generally don't have someone who shares my morning routine, which by the way is, um, 10 minutes of mobility in front of the red light panel.

Oh,

And, uh, and I do, um, to 

What's crazy if, if you try to explain it to people, most people don't get it and they think like, that sounds stupid. That sounds woo woo. Yeah.

I'm not sure which, so, so my, uh, suggestion for those people, because I had the CEO of, uh, Mito Red Light on the podcast, and he, he did a great job pitching, but what I tell people is, if you ever want to really test whether it's placebo or not, if you have an injury, like on both shoulders, you do a tough shoulder workout, only put Red Light on one.

And then see how you feel the rest of the day,

I was going to say like, I'd always wondered, I mean, I've been doing it now for years, but I've always felt like,  how do I know if it's actually doing anything? It's easy for me to do just because I can sit there and do it. And it's not a big lift to do. And I just, I see too many people talking about it that I trust that I'm just going to do it. But I've always wondered that.

How do I test it to know? That it actually is doing

need a controlled variable. And that's, that's 

Yeah, that's a good

But what I will say is, um, what your friends were saying, um, from the power project there is, uh, I do specific movements in front of the red light that are to activate my lower back. So I, I, about two or three years ago, I started doing about a 10 minute routine where it's a lot of mobility work and man, my lower back, I have, it's so weird not being in pain after 10 years of being in lower back pain and not being in 

what kind of, what, so what kind of things are you doing

So I started with the McGill Big Three, right? Stuart McGill is considered the back whisperer, and he's been on all the Hooberman, all those podcasts for years. He's retired, but he is considered the world's authority on back injuries. Um, all the athletes fly into Canada to go his special spine center. But He has the big three and bird dogs is one of one of those in side planks.

But the idea there is get your glutes activated so that they're awake for the day and you're not using your lower back to balance everything. And, uh, I actually do, um, I started doing, um, deficit pushups at the, in there as well, which had like the yoga blocks where you actually go down like eight inches lower.

Oh yeah. Those are

Man, uh, I started doing those. I do two sets during my mobility work. I'll do like five minutes of mobility. Then I'll do a set and then I'll do another set. It is amazing how much stronger I am now. Like when I drop, I was in a class bootcamp class this morning. They're like drop and give 20 every 30 seconds. 

I'm so much stronger. And that's just a bodyweight exercise, but that deficit, it's like benching your body weight, man. I mean, it's, it's legitimate work, but the point is, um, I love that we share so much there. And I have a, I built a cold plunge and then I have a sauna in my backyard as well. So, uh, those, those are obviously things that aren't feasible for everyone.

But I tell people, if you're hitting the sauna three days a week, after about three weeks, you're going to notice your recovery time get better from those hard workouts. You're able to get up the next day. And I personally liked the heat before bed. So like eight o'clock in the evening, it's easier to get to sleep.

The cold, I prefer first thing in the morning.  

Yeah, it's the cold man. It's, it's hard, but it's almost doing a cold plunge. Like Joe Rogan talks about this all the time, right? Where he talks about like getting into his cold plunge. It's almost not even the cold plunge itself, that's the benefit. It's the fact that it's such a mind f that is like  he has to.  Force his mind to go. No, you can do this. You can overcome this and get in it. So it's

almost like a mental exercise of just overcoming this massive.  Oh my god and Continually going into this and doing it  which is uh, just great for us. So,

I have a simple rule. No coffee until after I come out of there. So that removes the decision of are you going to do this? Are you not going to do it? It just goes well. I can't have coffee until I'm out of here. So it makes it a lot easier for me to keep in one thing.

reward, you know, if I can do it, then I get my coffee.

exactly.  So great mobility. Uh, and then the, what, the other thing I was going to give you kudos on was when you talk about your run, uh, focusing, uh, what I, um, have told people for years, I was an ultra runner.

So I tell people, yeah, if some of the best hundred milers I ever ran was. I made a rule and I said, you can't open your mouth for the first 50 miles.  And it.

makes a

Huge difference man. 

because your body doesn't go into that fight or flight mode. Now, if you're in a race, do whatever you need to do. Uh, and if you're like in a 5k or 10 K or whatever, but when I'm training and I go, this is a zone to run, this is not a zone three or four.

The rule is simple. Just don't open your mouth. And then you're going to keep your heart rate in a place where it's calm and you recover so much quicker from those. Once you start breathing through your mouth, your brain gets into fight or flight and says, Gotta breathe, gotta breathe, gotta breathe. And those are 

It's a  It's amazing when you go and you watch people. So one of my favorite things to do in the summer is go to New York. Go to Central Park.  And I love running Central Park, but then I'll sit and I like to watch people. Like there's this spot I'll sit off of the um, the the Kennedy Lake or whatever. I forget what it's called. I like to sit there and just watch people and everybody. Everybody is,

yeah, 

and you just want to like stop everybody or like have a booth and a table and be like, everybody shut your mouth, shut your mouth. Right.

yeah. The problem stems back to things like the Rocky Montage. Because people think if I'm not gasping, this isn't a good workout. And I tell them,

guess what? If you jog with your mouth shut, And you just relax versus run as hard as you can. If you run five miles, it's the same number of calories, the distance.

it's counterintuitive, you know, like people just think, well, I'm getting more air though. Like you're, you are, but you aren't.

Yeah. You're going into fight or flight. You're gasping. I, so I saved those moments from my VO two max workouts where that is where you're going to go. Uh, four minutes on, and I usually do it on a hill, and those are the ones where it's like, okay, if you're not mouth breathing by the end of this, you're not pushing yourself hard enough.

Right.

Um, great insight, by the way, and it's clear to me you're, you're highly committed to your fitness routine there. Uh, thank you for sharing that, and especially, uh, with your diet, man. Uh, I, I, I can't agree with you more. The, the sugar is just an inflammation.  Empty, uh, thing. And, uh, the last thing I'll say about that is, man,  the best sugar substitute I have ever used is one called allulose  and

yeah. That's like, they,

they use that with a lot of stevia type stuff. Right. 

it's in magic spoon.

Um, but it doesn't taste like Stevia. It doesn't, it doesn't have any aftertaste. So I tell people if you're just having a hard time getting off sugar. Go to Allulose. Uh, Peter Atiyah really, uh, endorses it because it actually has good side effects on your body. It actually prepares your body if you have any other source of glucose.

So, it's, it's an amazing chemical and it's calorie free and, um, the best brand is the Splenda brand Stevia. I'm sorry, uh, Allulose. 

I notice whenever it's funny, like once you've read yourself, of most of those, you know, processed foods and stuff. And you're, you're in that state when you consume it. What I get is my fingers get tingly.

I was going to say my teeth hurt as soon as I bite into something that's got sugar in it. I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like as soon as, if I take a bite of like, um, a Ben and Jerry's or someone hands me like, Oh, try this cake I made immediately. I'm just like, Oh my gosh, this is so rich. 

I know what you're saying too. It almost feels like you're eating  like acid

or something weird. And then your teeth start, my teeth start to hurt. Like if I ever like, look, I like candy. I do. It's definitely, it's one of my crutches. And so if, if my daughter brings home, You know sour patch kids. I can't help but have a couple because they're good, but every time I eat them It's like my teeth

hurt exactly what you're saying

Yeah. My, uh, my weakness is granola. That is definitely, I'll take a big handful. Yeah. Like granola that's kind of semi sweetened. I'll, I'll, I'll jump in on that stuff. 

There's a there's a brand of granola It's like what is it like the Big Bear granola or whatever it is,

Yeah. Naked, naked bear, bear naked. Yeah.

naked bear that's got the chunks of, uh, like cashews

And 

And

oh my gosh, that is so good. But there's so many calories in that

It is new. So I try to save it for my running days. I'll go, okay, you can have a few extra calories today, but yeah. So. We talked about the fact that you have turned more into a morning person, which I really respect and admire. Um, there were two insights that I want to give you kudos on. Number one is getting up earlier and then the other is not when you're talking about being in the gym.

Now we actually share that as well, where we're not doing clean and jerks and, and power lifts and, um, Arthur Brooks, which is like one of my favorite authors who wrote strength to strength. He's pretty buff dude, and he's like 65, but he's this really prolific dude. But he says, number one, if you look at all the historical philosophers, they make a rule of getting up like two hours before dawn, because that is when you're thinking is the clearest.

And the number two thing is people always ask him, like, how much do you work out? He says, Don't, don't ruin your joints. That's the number one rule. If you want to lift when you're old, don't ruin your joints.  Props to that. You are a fan of stoicism  and we share this. I'm a big fan of Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, and things like that.

So what I want to know from you is I want a specific and recent example of where you leverage stoicism in a decision. 

Oh,  a recent one.  Man.  Oh, you know what?  This just happened to me. Okay. So  I was just out in Sacramento for the power project  and to me,  The core of Stoicism is not reacting to external variables. It's controlling your reactions and  not having a reaction. It's being able to control myself and understand that nothing outside, like, has to affect me, has to bother me.

Especially if I can't control it. Like, if somebody wants to act a certain way,  like, it is what it is.  I can't control how they act. And also Maybe they're having a bad day, maybe something crazy happened that we don't know.  And so you kind of have to empathize and go, maybe they're just going through something and it's not about me.  So I went into the,  the Delta Sky Lounge.  I, we had a layover in  LA  to then come back to Minnesota. And so I went into the Sky Lounge and when I went up in, you know, when you're dealing with some of the, the airline workers,  it's not an easy job.  Right. They're dealing with so many people that  any, any business that you have to have do customer support in is difficult  and it's taxing and it's wearing on you. And so when I went in,  I had my big old, I wear my, my Apple AirPod maxes.  When you get off a plane, you know, you can flip the mode where you can hear everything. Even though somebody might look at you and think, well, that guy can't hear me, but you can hear everything. So I walked up through and I held my phone out and you go on to the little code, the little bar reader,  and then it just, Recognizes.

Yep. Yep. You're good to go in. And so I did it and I was looking at the woman waiting because you can't always hear it. Beep. Sometimes they have to like, okay, you're good to go. Like they always do that. And I was waiting for her to give me the cue. Like, all right, you're good to go. And she didn't look at me or give me a cue.  And I, so I went, am I good? And she, and she snapped at me  and he goes, yeah, I've been talking to you this whole time. I told you, you're fine. You're good.  And a normal person might have responded back defensive and had a reaction to it. But  I just kind of realized like,  it's not worth my energy  to respond because clearly she's in some sort of state where again, maybe she's having a bad day. Maybe something happened with, maybe she's got a kid or a daughter that something's going on. Like who knows what she's going through that is out of my control. And what I don't want to do is. So I was just gonna allow my energy to be sucked into that negative energy because  I was having a great day and I just wasn't going to allow myself to go there. So I just  smiled, I walked away and I found my seat and sat down and you know, pulled my phone out, got some work done, had a little snack and then two hours later I left and I got on a plane. So I think that's a good example of stoicism of again, not

letting. Some outside  variable or thing  cause you to react.

 And tension tensions, uh, to your point, tensions can be high in airports with layovers and 

totally. like yeah. I mean, who knows, but maybe there was some, maybe there's some dude that she got in an argument with, cause you know how that is. Sometimes you go in and, and they're like, I'm sorry, you can't come in. Cause you're. You know, you don't have the right credentials or you're past your time limit or whatever, you know, rules they set and then people get angry and you know, you have an argument back and forth and you got to kick them out.  Who knows? 

So I'm going to throw you a softball on this one. You're a big fan of Chris Foss, Robert Cialdini and Jordan Belford. Very good list, by the way. Um, I don't, uh, Cialdini alone, who has done persuasion and persuasion and so, so many other great books.

Phenomenal books. Yes. 

Um, I'd love to hear a tactic. Uh, whether it's Chris, Robert or Jordan, that you leverage in your business on a regular basis. 

Yeah. So I'll use Chris. So I think the, the Never Split the Difference book was a life changing book for me and it's a book that I make all of my employees read.  I would say that  there's There's a tactic in, in the book  that,  well, there's a couple of tactics that are kind of sort of related,  but  when, whenever you're trying to have a conversation, a difficult conversation, you're trying to, it can be with anybody.

It could be with an employee, it could be with a vendor, it could be with your wife, it could be with your kid, whoever  you, the end of the day, people want to feel heard.  And so you have to make people feel heard.  And one of the tactics that he teaches is you're mirroring back your, uh, I forget how, what he calls it.

He, there's a specific, I think he calls it an emotional audit or, uh, some kind of audit, whatever, where basically if somebody says 

What I'm hearing, what I'm hearing you say is,

right, exactly. You say, okay, so it sounds like you're having a tough time because this happened. And

is that correct? 

Yeah, that's right. 

question. Is that correct?

So essentially I'm empathizing. I'm making that person feel heard  so that they feel like, okay, he gets it.

He understands where I'm coming from. That's a, that's a strategy that I use daily in every aspect of the business.  And I'll say what's ironic about that. And Simon Sinek was talking about this. I saw a video where he was, he was saying,  He's really good at this kind of stuff, right?  He's good at this with most people, but he's terrible at it with the people closest to him.  I would actually go on a limb here and I would say I'm great at it with  my employees, talking to vendors, talking to everybody else.  But sometimes to the people closest to me, to my wife, I probably don't do a very good job of that

at all, 

It's actually very hard to be stoic with our family too. Cause they, they say something, they say something. It's almost like a nerve pain in your tooth. It goes bypass. It's all your filter. And you're just like, Oh,  yeah.

Yes.

Um, I, I shared something with my son, uh, from the Gottman Institute, which are, they, they do a bunch of research on what makes marriages last.

And one of the credentials for that is the sign of a good relationship is you give four to five good compliments before you give a constructive criticism. On 

I talk about that one a

lot.  Have you seen that my

yeah 

and, uh, I tell my son on a regular basis, I was like, if you can keep a tab and if I start draining the tab, I need to do, I got to do the work.

Because, um, it's important to me that he's my oldest son. So you just constantly, you're thinking of like. Buddy, come on, do this. Come on, come on, come on. And I found myself going, yeah. Am I giving him enough affirmation? Am I giving him enough, uh, feedback or does every compliment come with a, but here's what I need from you.

Right.  Very quid pro quo. Not the way to lead as a father, by the way. 

Right. 

So

magic ratio, I think is

yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like a, the four horsemen of, you know, stone, stonewalling and things like that. Yeah. 

Yeah, there's, there's the, there's the Is like the four, there's a handful of, of things that happen in a

relationship that are signals of like, okay, if these things are, are rearing their head, then you need to address

them. But  yeah, I

know for me, it 

As someone who's been through a divorce, I mean, there's, there's signs you look at, I've been through one too, and

there's signs you look back and go, you know, this is a sign, um,  you have 

Oh yeah. I mean, once you've been through it, like  you can,  I literally. Could do support sessions for other guys going through it and  I could coach them through it because like we've seen it all We know exactly what's happening. We don't Jackie where they're going when this is gonna happen. How's it gonna happen?

And they're like what? 

you know, the biggest thing I notice, um, is that when I'm talking to somebody, like a guy that's a friend of mine, he's, and he'll. Come out and say, Hey, I think we're about to get a divorce or the, a woman, my, you know, that I'm friends with will say, Hey, we're thinking about getting divorced, um,  I'll, I'll do what you were talking about.

Like with Chris Voss, listen, I'm here for you. I want you to know this is a tough thing. The biggest misconception for people who have not been through a divorce and are going down that road is they think it's no big deal. They'll say things like, oh, it's going to be fine. It's no big deal, you know? And that's where I go.

have no idea what you're in for.

And they also say, Oh, kids are resilient. They'll get through it.  No,

 The, the tax from 

that's an excuse people make to make themselves feel better. 

You're exactly right, man.  Man, great information. You're such a, uh, great resource for all these different topics of mine. So, um,  easy question for you. What's the last book you read that caused you to change a way you think or conduct yourself? 

Um, I,  I wouldn't say it's, I've read it all, but I carry,  pull it out cause it's right here.  I think it's right here. Yeah. Here.  So  it's a book that I continually sort of read through it, but it's traction.

Oh yeah, I've got it right here. 

Yeah, there it

is. Yeah. So 

Yeah. I 

this is a, this is a book 

I was a process design engineer when in my corporate life. So we, we practiced 

Oh yeah. So, so this is one of those books where I always take it with me  because I feel like  there's so many things in this book that.  As I continue to scale this business  because as big as it's going to get, continue to get  the amount of people who I've talked to who are like, you have to read traction  because they can see the writing on the wall.

They've been there and they're like, I know where you're going with your business. You have to read that book. And so there's all these SOPs in this book that I'm like,  yeah, okay.  I gotta, I gotta put that in place. Right. It, which is

basically 

for our audience, when he says SOP, he's talking about standard operating procedures.

Yeah. Right.  So I would say this, it's, I can't like pinpoint any one thing from the book, like at the moment, but it's  when I, when I read through the book and then I continue to go back to it, there's just reminders of like, Oh yeah. Okay. I need to have this process in place because like an example is, you know, when you hire employees, And, and you've got all these employees,  you know, most people make the mistake of you hire the employees. And then at some point down the road, you're like, what the hell is wrong with these guys? Why aren't they doing their job very well? But then you realize, well, what are you doing to actually make sure they're set up to succeed  and you're giving them everything that they need. Cause you can't just.  And then you have to hire employees and then like, all right, we'll see you later.

And then expect them to do everything you want.  Right. And you have to coach them. You have to give them what they need. You have to,  and that, that's a shift that I have to make, right. Is being a, being an operator  and being a CEO of a company. I'm still a CEO and the CEO really I'm operating in it, which at some point I shouldn't be. And I should be more focused on, yes, the vision, but also taking care of, My guys and making sure that they have what they need and they're getting enough support from me and, but they're also getting the proper critique from me because they're learning, they're all learning from me.  So,

So what it gives you is the guideline between accountability and autonomy. 

yeah, well, it gives me reminders of,  it gives me reminders of, I got to remember, I should be doing this as well as  giving me areas that I should be doing that. Maybe I didn't know,  you know, because as you scale, you know, when you go from a.  A million dollar a year business to a 50 million a year business.

That's a pretty different business.  So

Quite the scale, quite the scale. Very impressive, man.

quite the scale.

So let's talk a little bit about, um, the hostage tape. And I want to know first, when you think about  what is the biggest differentiator? Between hostage tape and any of those, uh, tapes that we find on Amazon or something else that can be used.

Yeah. So there's a couple of things. One is  let's frame,  when you say the other ones you find on Amazon, let's frame

that for a moment. So now  because I created this category, I basically made mouth tape what it is. Uh, because of what we did.  So now you can go on Amazon and you can see, you know, 50 copycats that are trying to do what I'm doing.

Because they are like, oh my god, look what he did. So now you will find  50 different hostage tape copycats, but

To be fair. I was talking about the generic, uh, three 

right. Exactly. Yes. So now the difference is most of most of those,  they're actually just super cheap, rigid, maybe plasticky tape that maybe doesn't stick too

well.

It doesn't feel very comfortable. It falls off.  And so then they try to  sell it really cheap. Like, here, buy a hundred pieces for five bucks. Like, well, you're gonna get what you pay for. It's not really gonna work too well. And where we differentiated was the fact that it's this flexible  fabric tape that has just the right amount of adhesive that It's strong enough to work, but also not so strong that it's like duct tape and you're going to rip your hair out.  And it works really well with facial hair, right? But the fact that it's this stretchy material makes it so comfortable. Whereas most regular tape, it's really rigid when you put it on. It's not very comfortable. And because it's rigid, it doesn't do well with facial hair. Uneven surfaces, right? And so that's probably one of the biggest, I think, reasons why the tape  has exploded so much is because when people use it, majority of people use it, it works really, really well for them and they immediately know what's going on. Especially the people who have used everything  they know  most but most of them are like, wow, I've, I've used to use micropore tape for years and trying to watch this tape so much more comfortable, so much better,  right? And, and secondly, I would say the brand,  like when I launched the brand, I knew that  I'm going to be selling a commodity.  And how do you differentiate yourself? How do you create a moat?  And you do that by building a brand. A brand that people love. A brand that stands out. A brand that inspires men. That inspires people to buy your product. To want to be a part of the company.  You know, that's what liquid death and what Mike did with, with that, right?

Liquid debt is a phenomenal brand. It's water. It's great water. Don't get me wrong.  It's a great product, but it's such a cool brand. And I love, I love being a part of the brand and dude wipes is another one. I love what Sean did with dude wipes, man. And.  You could easily buy  wipes at Target half the price,  but I'd much rather buy dude wipes because I love the brand.

I love the playfulness of it. I know Sean. I know the founder and I'm a brand like him. I'm a challenger brand. And so I, that's, you know, people, people buy things.  Usually because of emotion,  right? Most people buy things with emotion

and then 

Jordan Belford now. 

yeah. And they'll, and they'll validate it with logic,  right?

You buy an emotion and you validate that with your logic. Like, Oh man, I really want this. I love this. This is cool. This is going to make me feel cool. And then you go. Okay. Do I have enough money to buy this? Yes, I do. Okay. It's not too expensive, right? No, it's not too expensive. Okay. Right. Okay.  You know, and so that's what we knew with the brand was it's going to create this emotional connection with people, with men, inspire them and people love it.

Well, I mean, look, great brands have polarity. You either love it or you hate it. And we did that by design. There's a lot of people that, that hate the brand, hate the branding, right? That's okay. You know, you're just not for

Uh, the author Mark Manson has a state, a phrase that he uses and he's, uh, he's, obviously I'm assuming you know who he is. He's written a lot of bestsellers, but his argument is that if you want to be big, you It's best to be a contrarian. The catch is you actually have to be right. So you have, you have to be able to, you know, take a stance, but in the end, um, you have to be right about it. 

Well, you have to like, it's, so Moise, I talk about Moise all the time with this. You have to, you have to be able to stand out and be different. Like that contrarian mindset, right? Of  like you walked on the Isle of Target and if you see a wall of white, you know, In the deodorant aisle.  Then you go there's an opportunity there rather than be afraid of it.

You go. There's an opportunity because there's a big enough market. And I just have to create something that stands out and get people's

attention.   Yeah, totally.

Exactly. 

 man, you, you have got, uh, the marketing advice down, man. This is great. So with sleep tracking devices being the norm, like the aura ring and the. The whoop strap and things like that. What insights would you offer people who are sleep trackers in terms of like, how long till you see the, any impact from, from using hostage tape?

Yeah, I, look, everybody's different.  Everybody's different.  So for me.  I,  I felt it right away. So when I mouth tape for the first time, and that's why when I discovered mouth taping, I immediately knew I'm like, this is, there's a business here. I have to build a business around this because this was life changing.

Like holy crap, like just the amount of energy I felt waking up.  So everybody's different though, because there's some people who they'll mouth tape, they don't feel it right away.  But then as they continue to do it day by day by day, within maybe five to seven days, then they start to notice something different.  And then some people, they'll, they'll post their, their Whoop or their Oura Ring stats on Instagram and say, Oh my God, look at this. And you know, whatever stats are there, I don't, I don't have those. But they'll show some stat that proves this was before and this was after  look how much better, you know, sleep I'm gaining because the whoop says I am.  So I would say that man, everybody's just a little bit different.

But if you're mouth breathing though, at the end of the day, if you're a mouth breather during sleep, you will 100 percent sleep better, feel better.  By wearing mouth tape.

I love it, man. I love it. This has been fantastic. Um, where can people find out more about what you're working on and what you're up to next? 

Yeah, so everybody can go to HostageTape. com  and you can also go to our socials at Hostage Tape on any one of the channels uh, that you might be on.

Any big box retailers you want to share that you're breaking into lately? 

Yeah, so we are going to be launching into Sobeys up in Canada. That's gonna happen probably at the turn of the year here.  Probably about 400 doors. And

then we're working on Walmart right now. So at some point next year we'll be launching into hopefully Walmart 

I applaud you. I'm moving to Canada, man. Anything over that border. It's just, there's so many 

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's what I love about it, right? Logistically, it's a

nightmare.

shipping to Canada. It's just awful. But also it's strategic in the sense that anytime you get into retail, it's a big risk because if you don't do it right, you could sink your business. And, and so starting small with 400 doors. It's a great starting point to learn, make sure we have everything in place to then roll out to go into Walmart. I'd rather do that than go into Walmart first and then you realize we're not ready. We screwed something up. We didn't have what we needed, you know? 

Okay. That's a great little test then. Um, I want to thank you before we disconnect, uh, not only for what you're doing for people's sleep, but especially today, what you shared with, you know, how you train, how you think, and how you eat. And, uh, you inspired a lot of people. Thank you so much. 

Yeah, thanks for having me. I love talking

Oh, I could tell.

I could tell. Thank you, Alex. 

​Breathing and Behaviors to Achieve 'Beast Mode'