Mastering Goal-Setting: Insights and Practical Steps for Success

Pramoda Vyasarao:  Author of...

Beyond Your Limits: The Proven Path for Achieving Growth, Happiness, and Meaning with Expansive Goals 

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In Episode 54 of 'Chasing Energy,' the host discusses the importance of setting clear, achievable goals and shares personal experiences and strategies for success. Featuring insights on overcoming setbacks, strategic quitting, and the significance of enjoying the journey, this episode underscores the transformative power of goal-setting. The guest, Promoda, shares a touching story of personal loss and how it spurred a lifetime of goal-oriented living. Listeners will gain practical steps to create and maintain meaningful goals, emphasizing intrinsic motivations like mastery, autonomy, and purpose.

00:00 Introduction to Rationalization and Attention

00:27 Welcome to Episode 54

00:58 Setting Nutritional Goals

01:05 The Sprouts Bout Ad

01:59 Guest Introduction and Life-Changing Event

04:39 Seven Steps to Setting Goals

05:28 Intrinsic Goals and Their Importance

12:01 Creating Before Reacting

13:39 Defining Milestones and Avoiding Ambiguity

15:50 Bounce Back from Setbacks

17:41 Quitting Strategically

20:14 Enjoying the Journey

21:34 Conclusion and Contact Information

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Transcript

Beyond Your Limits: The Proven Path for Achieving Growth, Happiness, and Meaning with Expansive Goals 

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anytime you have ambiguity in something that draws you out of your comfort zone, you're opening yourself up for rationalization and it, and to cite Tony Robbins, rationalization is the act of telling yourself a story. 📍 

I was realizing that after some time I was splitting my attention. I was paper cutting my own

attention. So that has been a big change in the last three months. Yes. I will respond to people. I will be active, but I'll block sometime, maybe 60 minutes and that's it.  📍 

 Hey, thanks for joining me for episode 54 of chasing energy. It's such an honor. You have so many choices, uh, in terms of podcast. And I am truly honored that you. I chose this one and it's a fairly brief one. And, uh, just wanted to say thank you. I really appreciate it so much. Liking and leaving a comment is the way to ensure that the podcast keeps going, because I do watch for that, by the way. Uh, Are you. Setting goals. 

That's what this episode is about. And what I want to ask you today is nutritionally. What are your goals? So my invention, the sprouts bout, yes, this is the only ad you'll hear during this podcast. Is a big part of what I preach to people which is take control of your health. Take control of your decisions and always put success within reach. If you study atomic habits, it's always about putting success within reach and making it super convenient. The sprouts about. For those of you watching versus listening. 

I have one right here is about growing your superfoods in three days, right on the counter. And we have some subscription service that delivers it right to your door. If you look at the podcast notes, I put a discount code in there for you. I hope to see your order. And, uh, if you have some feedback on the device, I would absolutely love to hear it. 

Look me up at DP Lucas on Instagram. And I hope you enjoy this wonderful goal-setting podcast with promoter.

 Beyond Your Limits, these are seven steps to setting goals, and we're going to talk a little bit about what an appropriate goal is, what got you here. Um, we'll start with talking about something big that happened in your life in your 20s that caused you to, um, as the Stoics say, memento mori. Um, so, uh, tell us a little bit about what happened then. 

Back in the days, um, I was studying, I was doing master's in computer science back in India. I was 22.  I had a job at Oracle. I was supposed to join after six months, finishing my post graduation and unexpectedly my father passed away in 2002.  That was a big blow for me because, uh, he was my biggest supporter back then.  I was in mild depression for almost 12 months. And within those 12 months, even my grandfather passed away. I was very close to my grandfather. So two deaths in the family, I was devastated.  Existential questions haunted me, like what's the meaning to life, why do we live, what are we supposed to do, and so on.  This went on for about two years,  and I kept reading all these self help books. They were in a way helping me, but I wasn't taking action to do something in my life. I was overweight, I was obese, I was not happy in my life.  I went to a seminar on time management in 2003 October as part of my software job.  My manager thought I could benefit from time management. So he sent me this training.  In the training, I was exposed to a man named John Goddard, who is the American adventurer.  He's very famous. He wrote books on goal setting. I was impressed by his goal setting method. Wow, we can achieve so much by setting goals. That day in October, 2023, I listed five simple goals.  And from there, my life changed.  My life became a goal oriented life, like a plane going to its destination. My last 21 years have been all the time looking at what do I want? What will bring me joy this year? Let me go behind that activity or that goal.  So my life changed in October, 2023 to start with five goals. And in the book, I talk about 52 goals that I have achieved in the last 21 years. 

And so was one of those goals was to write the book, correct?

That is correct. 

That's a great journey. Uh, thank you for sharing that. That's, that's big. Uh, when, as someone who can also speak to, uh, you know, when your father passes, um, you really start to question what is my legacy? You know, there's no, um,  there's no sort of barrier at that point when, you know, it's one thing when you've got a grandfather that's still alive, then you've got a father that's still alive.

And then you realize I'm the next, I'm the next in line here. So with each, uh, with each Each day we get a chance to craft a little piece of our legacy. So, um, let's, let's start with the seven steps here. Um, and there's a few I'm going to ask you that aren't quite in here, but, um, you start with the first one, begin with the end in mind, which by the way, one of my favorite books of all time, seven habits, a highly effective people.

Um, so tell us a little bit about,  I really want to dig into, um, in this particular podcast, I want you to craft, um, an example.  Because we, we, I don't feel that goal setting is new to anyone. What I struggle with, uh, when I hear people say their goals is, is this an appropriate goal to get you to the next level?

Because a lot of people set goals around. what they want to do or something that's fun or that they want to go see this place. But when it comes to actually goals that are going to carve you into the next level, what are some of the criteria that you think about for that?

I love intrinsic goals. This comes from Daniel Pink, who wrote the book Drive, and there are three components to intrinsic goals, which is, uh,  M is the mastery, which means you are going to be skillful in something that you really enjoy doing you want to develop a skill that you enjoy developing. That is, uh, M is mastery is autonomy.  You want to be independent.  So the autonomy is the second aspect of intrinsic goal. And the third aspect is P, purpose. How can I help other people?  So mastery, autonomy, and purpose. I always look at my goals and say, which one of these, either one of these or many of these can be in my goal.

Okay. So it's like a Venn diagram of extrinsic and intrinsic influences. Um, And when you mention purpose, um, I think of like altruism, how is this serving the, the, and fulfillment, which is how is this serving, uh, my peers, my family, the society, whatever.

Absolutely. Yeah. Even if you look at writing the book, the book's premise and the promise is you can have goals to get happiness in your life. Just by following the process, just by being on the journey, you will be happier is the message.  I always thought what would, what difference would my book make to readers? I started from there. 

Yeah, there's a, there's a book, um, that actually did a clever play on words and it's called the happiness of pursuit instead of the 

pursuit of 

I love the

But yeah, so it's one of those things where when you're.  Part, part of the journey here, since we're talking about how you got started and whatnot, when you sort of go through your forties and you look at sort of your existential meaning,  the, uh, David Brooks has a great book, one of my favorite books called the second mountain.

And it is a lot of that is saying,  what is it about? What I do from day to day, or what is it that I'm trying to accomplish that's going to serve the greater good here because I think we can mostly agree that up until you're at least your mid thirties, you're focused on a career providing for your children.

You know what? I call the first 3 levels of Maslow's hierarchy. Right?  basically air, food, shelter, family, things like that. But when we start getting into purpose, things get a little bit tricky because it's not about the direct rewards. So tell me an example, since we're focusing on the goal setting exercise here, tell me how you might craft a client to revise their goals based on the impact or. 

Or where it fell into those three circles you mentioned. 

I think we generally start with, uh, these days I start with people with two questions. Then we go to other ways of exploring goals. A lot of people have common challenges. So the two questions I ask them is, what is one thing you can start doing  which will improve your life today? 

So in this case, you're talking, what can you do to get immediate gratification? 

And the second question is, what can you do? Stop? What can you stop doing today? That will improve your life.

You'll be surprised, Daniel. When people give me answers, uh, I spoke to somebody at Meta who is my client. Sometime back, he's a manager at Meta Facebook, big organization. As we explored goals, he told me that I am not mindful with my own daughter.

She's always

coming to me and she wants to play with me. She's three and a half, but I have no time for her. She talks to me. And while she's talking to me, I look at the phone and check my messages.  So a lot of people tell big goals are important to me. This is an important goal He wants to be mindful with his daughter  savor the moments with her.

That is a wonderful goal.  That is intrinsic goal 

Yeah.

So when you

talk to clients, that's where it surfaces out what exactly their goals are What's the real pain right now, which you can solve by setting goals?

so in this case, Promoda, what we would want to start is the active, um,  the act, the act of paying more attention and being more present with the daughter. The thing you would want to stop is saying things like, or doing things like saying, when you have. When you are trying to connect with your daughter, you make an agreement with yourself that the phone is in the other room or that you won't check it or something along those lines that puts it out of reach so that you can achieve the first goal.

Absolutely. Absolutely So you list the actions and say what can you do today? To facilitate those behaviors to show the mindfulness with your daughter. Yes, you're right. 

Okay. And I know another one of your, uh,  uh, things that you say are considered an urge people to consider stopping is television time, right? Where, uh, you think about the amount of time people are spending and what they're getting out of it. And you really call that in a question. So you did an experiment with your wife 90 days and you said, let's try without the TV and it stuck, right?

You saw that the value for what you had with your family was, was worth it. Um, give me an example of something that you recently stopped, uh, of your own accord in order to help you clarify and have more time or more cognitive bandwidth in pursuing your goals.

One of the things I've been doing is, uh, as I run my own business, I was posting a lot on LinkedIn  and naturally what happens is when people come back and respond, you go be active and responding to everybody possible. I was realizing that after some time I was splitting my attention. I was paper cutting my own

attention. So that has been a big change in the last three months. Yes. I will respond to people. I will be active, but I'll block sometime, maybe 60 minutes and that's it.  As opposed to checking randomly once in a while and seeing who is responding and commenting back and sharing my ideas with them. So this has been a game changer for me.

I am back to my elements where I can read, I can meditate, I can learn new things and be with my family. So this has been the biggest change in the last three months.

 so the first thing I think of in that act is, uh, Cal Newport, which is the author of Deep Work and how his entire sort of, if you read any of his books, it's largely based on get away from this, uh, Split model of attention and get into where you devote this time to your, your most important part of the day to where it's distraction free.

Right. And you're, you're focused on it. So in your case,  I, and by the way, I don't think you're, you're unique in that respect where you say I'm helping the business by getting on LinkedIn and then you end up finding yourself, well, I never really got any deep work done because I was constantly doing this thing.

The problem in, in, uh, today is we can justify or rationalize all these little actions as. Tidbits in as we're investing in ourself.  And there's not, that's not a lie, but it's not the best investment. The best investment is often saying, I will not touch that until my deep work for the day is done. And then, um, you know, and then you can go into that mode.

I agree. In fact, I have a distinction called, uh, you have to create before you react,  create something every day in the morning so that you do the deep work first

before you react to things in your day.

Oh, I love that. 

is most of reacting, not creating. 

So, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll share a story on that Pramoda Vyasarao Um, I noticed that if I check my phone before I journal for the day, I'm  number one, I'm a lot less likely to do any journaling. If I open the phone number two is I'm actually a lot less satisfied with my day. If I started off with, if even looking at my phone within the first hour of the day, there is some part of me that is never as focused and effective because I go into reactive mode, as you say.

Right.  And so I've kind of been, and there's times where in my career, I can justify checking the phone first, you know, what were my sales yesterday, blah, blah, blah. But, um, It is, it is a very detrimental thing and it's very, uh, and as adults, right, there's no one standing over our 

shoulders, slapping our hands and you're not supposed to do that.

Um, so. I'm very much with you. Um, I'm probably a little more on the extreme side. I do like the cold plunge in the morning and all that stuff. But, uh, what I found was to your point, uh, create before you react is, is imperative. And the danger is that a lot of people think, um,  Oh, I'm more creative in the evening.

And to that, I would say you, you, as long as you actually commit to that and get it done. I think it's very rare that people carve out time in the evening to be, to be a productive and creative versus the mornings.

I agree. You know, we have most energy in the morning, especially if you go for a short run and come back, you're the best energy in the morning. 

Yeah. 

Uh, we can do great things in the morning. That has been my experience as

 Yeah. I love the feedback here. I love the feedback. So let's talk a little bit about defining milestones. 

well. This is something I have seen in my own career and others is we take a big goal  and we decide, okay, I'm going to achieve a lot in the next six months or 12 months. We are now ready for a disaster later that. It was not well defined milestone. 

Yes. 

other words, we overestimate what we can achieve in one year. This is Tony Robbins code, if you remember, and we underestimate what we can achieve in five years.  So if you put a shorter milestone, something achievable, but a little difficult, there is a higher chance of achieving our milestones and hence our goals. Yes. Yes. Yes.

great example of, of laying that out. The other part I'll add to that is, um, I cannot stand ambiguous goals.  I'm going to be healthier in six months. What, what does that mean exactly? You're in better shape. You weigh less, you eat better. I mean,  anytime you have ambiguity in something that draws you out of your comfort zone, you're opening yourself up for rationalization and it, and to cite Tony Robbins, rationalization is the act of telling yourself a story.

So. Try to create a narrative when you define these milestones that makes it storyproof to where you go, I'll know whether I'm on track and I'll know whether I've hit it. 

Even if you consider my book writing journey, I took nine months to write and publish the book. I worked with the coach. My goal was each day, sit down for 30 minutes and write.  And that's what I did for the first four months. Every day, sit down for 30 minutes and write and I have a chapter goals for each week.

And then each month I had a milestone. So that way you can chunk it every day.

Those words that are your writing become chapter chapters become sections. And in nine months, it can become a book. That's how you can define milestones. From a chunk, to a page, to a chapter, to a section, to a book.

 it comes down to, um, I'm going to guess it comes down to simple tactics. Like I will write 500 words a day.

You can either go by the number of words or the number of minutes. In my case, I took number of minutes and say, 30 minutes every day, I will write. Whatever comes to my mind. I knew the flow of my book. I knew the structure. It was well organized already. My job was to sit down every day and write for 30 minutes.

Okay. Love it. Love it. So let's talk a little bit about bounce back. Give me an example of what that's about. 

Bounce back is about you are on a journey toward your goal. There are always setbacks. The setbacks can be your own making, or it can be environmental, it can be situational and so on. I'll give you a couple of examples. When I was training for a full marathon, 26 kilometers.  I was not able to run beyond 16 miles because I had, uh,  issues with my calves and Achilles heel.

I went to someone who's an expert physiotherapist. He said, you need a little more time to recover. You need a little more time to strengthen your calf and other muscles so you can run more distance.  Now this is the perfect example of bouncing back. There is a technical reason I cannot run longer distances yet. How do I keep myself focused on the goal? I'll come back to this bounce back later.  So I went back, I did yoga in those six months.

I did other workouts to strengthen myself, but my goal was still clear. At some point I want to bounce back to my track.  The path is always there. I can bounce back having this patience, having the goal in mind while you are not actually pursuing it.  In fact, you are still pursuing it by becoming stronger. It's just that you're not running at this point.

that's right. Uh, so I'm, I was an endurance athlete, so I can definitely speak to what you're talking about. And, uh, what you're talking about is the physioskeleton, um, adaptations to the trauma. And the trauma are from micro tears that come, especially once you go past the 13 mile distance. So I usually tell people who are, let's say they're not runners at all, and they want to do the Disney marathon in six months, I go, you will probably get hurt. 

Or finish and be burnt out or both, because when you go from nothing to a marathon, you're setting yourself up for that. You're not giving yourself proper time recovery. But like you said,  there are so many things you can do to bounce back and be clever with that. As, as I like to say in the training, uh, in my training, um, injuries are a riddle.

You just figure out what is it that I can do to promote my training that doesn't make this injury worse.  Awesome. So tell me a little bit about quick quitting strategically.

What I've realized, Daniel, is there are some goals that are not worth pursuing. May not be the right time, may not be the right goal for me, may not be relevant anymore at this point. We need to be ego less to understand and accept the fact that I was chasing this goal. This is no longer relevant to me for so many reasons. And gracefully exiting and say, I will not pursue this anymore.  This is where I take my family's help. My wife, my son, my coach to understand what am I doing and why am I doing?

Absolutely.

One specific example is right after publishing my first book,  I started writing my second book  because I am a software engineer.

English is my third language. I have struggled in my communication.  I have improved a lot with first masters and other things.  So I wanted to write a book on communication engineering. How can you tailor your message to the audience?  And the subtitle of the book was think like an engineer, talk like an executive.  That was a subtitle. I started writing already. I realized, um, I have other goals to achieve right now. My finance goals from business, my newsletter and so many other things.

Writing another book is not useful at this point. It's mostly for ego boosting. Like I wrote another book. 

Yeah, plus you've already built the habit of writing every day, so it's a lot easier to continue to sort of produce that. 

But when I went to my coach, Eric Maisel, he said, look, uh, I understand you are passionate about your second book, but how is it relevant right now in your business? You  As we explored together as a coach and client, I realized it's a great idea. I can put the outline and keep it ready, but I don't have to invest time to publish it because that's not relevant right now in my business.  So I quit strategically and said, I'll come back to it. Maybe later, whenever I want, I have the outline ready, but I will say goodbye. Right now, focus on my other business goals that are more important at this point. And it's okay. Totally fine. I did not lose. I'm not a loser by quitting this goal. I know I quit strategically.

I might come back if I want to. 

Yeah. And I think most people agree if, um, if you are writing and even if it's not being leveraged for a book, it's still such a productive exercise in so many other areas of your life. When you're writing, you become a much better thinker. You become more clear about what it is you want in your life. Uh, and all those wonderful things that don't come from, as you say, being reactive, you're creating, even if this writing is not part of the goal in and of itself, it serves you so well when you write to be clear about how you're going to achieve the goals you currently have. 

This has been great. Let's let's do just a quick, quick cover on enjoying the journey. Before we wrap up here.

Yes. Um, this is something I have personally experienced. I take big goals and I started achieving them.  For some reason, we get angry. We get frustrated that, okay, the, the goal is not here yet. I am not there yet.  And while you're with your family, friends, and people around you, You show the frustration that you're struggling, your body's paining.

You went for a 20 mile run today. So you don't know any mood to go to a coffee shop with your wife. So we started, we start feeling angst that we are not able to enjoy our life.  I have realized very early in my life that you need to be graceful during a goal driven journey. Just like a, a swan, it is swimming in a lake. You will not see how it is actually paddling its legs. 

It is so well gliding, smoothly gliding on the surface, but there's something happening beneath the water or even the surface. Same thing with our goal driven journey. I've realized we need to enjoy the journey no matter how difficult it is. I chose the goal. The goal is making me a better person.  I want to enjoy this. If I'm not enjoying Something is wrong with my goal or my approach to this goal. 

I love it. Uh, that's, that's, it's incredibly important because what we don't want is for people to achieve the goal and be so burned out that they just don't want to do anything else beyond that. This is extremely beneficial. And I liked the, the grace example there of, you know, things going on beyond the surface. 

Promota, uh, where can people find out more about what you're doing? I mean, I know your, your website is change smith. me. Um, because you are a specialist in helping people to achieve change and I believe you offer the audiobook for free, correct?

That is correct People can go to chainsmith.  me slash audio  chainsmith is one word dot me slash audio. They can download the audiobook

Okay. All right. I appreciate your time today and I hope you continue to make some wonderful changes in the people who are willing to commit to it.

Thank you, daniel. I really enjoyed the conversation so nice and welcoming and warm conversation. I loved 

wow. 

Wow. I'm feeling good about it. 

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