Becoming Whole
Relationships and sexuality are areas of life that can be beautiful or confusing, life-giving, or painful. Becoming Whole is a conversational podcast for men, women, and families seeking to draw nearer to Jesus as they navigate topics like sexual integrity, relational healing, spiritual health, and so much more.
Becoming Whole
Advent: Why The Incarnation Heals Sexual Shame
Ever felt like you’re living two lives—one that prays and serves, and one that hides, aches, or acts out? We go straight at that divide and ask what Advent is really saying to our bodies: the Word became flesh. If God chose skin and bone, then your body isn’t a liability to your faith—it’s the home where Christ loves, heals, and restores.
If this met you, share it with a friend who needs hope, subscribe for more conversations on embodied faith, and leave a review with one takeaway you’ll try this week. Where does your body most long to meet Jesus?
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole:
- Email us questions! info@regenerationministries.org
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
Hey everybody, we are glad you're back. It's Josh Glazer and Aaron Taggart, AA Ron in our um podcast studio, aka my office and his office. Uh nothing fancy here. Aaron, good to be with you. It's good to be with you. Thank you. Thank you. With we use that word with. Oh actually. Yeah, we're gonna get into that. All right. So, but here's what we want to talk about today. We were talking offline beforehand and thinking about the number of clients that we've seen over the years, men and women alike, who have this kind of experience where they they love Jesus, they're Christians, they're faithful, and they've got this like spiritual life on the one hand, but then the sexual behavior, the sexual thoughts, these sexual feelings, the sexual wounds on the other. And the spiritual and sexual don't really seem to cross very much. And sometimes, even if they do, it's not very helpful. But we want to get after today why it is super helpful. Uh so Aaron, what as even as we just get going, give it a give an example or some thoughts about like what's your experience been as you're walking with men or men and women there who whose spiritual life is alive, but whose sexual life is also leaning away from their spiritual life. What's what's been some of your experience of that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm you know, I I think about just so many clients that I've walked with uh in coaching, um who just like you kind of said, like it's almost like there are sort of two versions uh of themselves. So that the version that they that they really want, uh, you know, they want to pour more into you know that spiritual life and be spiritually healthy. And but they've they've got some you know, some you know, trauma, some wounds, some you know, places like their you know, sexual integrity or the sexual brokenness that doesn't seem to kind of line up with that. And so it's almost like I'm actually thinking of IFS right now, that's like there's this part of them that's not welcome, and they would call that the exile, right? And so there's this sort of separation of the whole self, and you know, just thinking like you know, to get fully whole, and like this is the becoming whole podcast, like how how do we become whole, integrated, one entire sort of um body, uh, you know, heart, mind, you know, soul, like all together as one. And I think I think I just see so much of where it's I get this visual of like all these things kind of floating in different parts, you know, and it's like they're not all like together. It's like, oh, this one's over here and this one's over here. And but how do we how do we bring it all together? Um, and I and I just yeah, I so I hear that a lot, like in in uh I feel like um the the clients that I coach. And then honestly, Josh, as I'm sitting here thinking about this, I I think I see this in the church too. This is like this is a place where that the church hasn't historically done a really great job of entering into, and in some ways, kind of created in what way? What do you mean? Yeah, so I you know, I just maybe because you know, uh churches or church leaders don't know how to engage or enter in, or you know, because a lot of this also culturally is pretty sensitive stuff, and so things that maybe not be you know talked about or engaged in, and and so there's almost kind of like this sexuality part, and then like all the other parts, and so I think even on that level, we see to some degree, and not by you know, probably you know, any sort of um negligent intent or anything like that, but just sort of again out of like how do we engage this? How do we enter in? I don't feel quit and so we're not gonna really engage it, and we're just gonna kind of, you know, maybe nominally talk about it, but it's it's kind of its separate thing, and we're gonna, you know, everything else is kind of in its other lane.
SPEAKER_00:And so I think in those ways we see that too. So if you're if you're listening and you're thinking, and you and can you it can resonate with that experience that you you love Jesus, you want to be a faithful Christian, you have quiet times, you practice other spiritual disciplines. Uh imperfectly, yes, but that this is a significant part of your life. And yet you got these, maybe there's sexual wounds from things in your past that just feel like, man, I just want to keep those tucked away. I don't know how bringing them somehow into my Christian faith is gonna make a difference. Or maybe I've tried to do that in the past and it just didn't what was unhelpful. Uh, or you're struggling with an unwanted sexual behavior and you keep going back to that well and you know the water's bad there, but sometimes it seems so, so good. Or you've got a spouse with them with your shoes. And and we're recording this. This is gonna drop uh during Advent. And I know also there's there for many people, there's like, I just want Christmas to be nice. I don't want to think about these things, I don't want these to get in the way, but they do get in the way. And actually, actually, actually, this is why Christmas matters so much. Uh Christmas is not the time to divert our attention away from the things that that are troublesome to us sexually. Christmas is actually a time for us to look right into the heart of this stuff because uh Jesus' incarnation speaks to it, and that is actually substantively um, effectually the answer to the these very things that people struggle to bring into alignment and integrate, as you mentioned, Aaron. So that's where we're gonna go.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, I ought to like, yeah, and we're about to go there, you know, but just that Emmanuel, God with us, is so much different than God over us. You know, it's like, you know, we there is something that changes once again, just when someone steps off of a platform and into the crowd, like you go to a concert or something, and and they come into the stands, you know, and it's like they're not just up on the stage, they're like down here with us. There's something that changes in that with us. Um, and so I want to dive into that, Josh. I want to I wanna uh bring a question to you uh in line with that. So why did God choose to take on a body instead of just remaining purely spiritual?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good question. Good question I feel like I've heard this question before. No, it I I do not assume in any way to know the mind of God in its entirety, but I think there the the question is is really important and good for those of us who are bodies. Why did God choose to take on a body? And and and interestingly, even some of your language, like it it, I'm not sure. It's it's important for us to consider carefully how do we think about God taking on a body? We'll get to that a little bit. Um, but a couple a couple things I do know are important. Number one is that scripture's clear that God, who is spirit, created the material physical world. And so whether we're talking about Genesis one, where the spirit hovers over the waters and creates, speaks life, Genesis two, where God gets into the the dirt of creation. And we're not trying to get after like what's literal, what's poetic, what's metaphorical, but but the writers of scripture are definitely trying to get into the reality that God, who is invisible, has made this material world. And then the end of Genesis 2, he says it's very good. And so, right away out of the gates, we recognize that from God's perspective, the material world is really, really good. And that includes sex. Really, really good. A lot more we could say about that, maybe we will. Romans 1, Paul takes and he's alluding back in a very transparent way. He's alluding back to Genesis 1 and 2. But he's talking about how the invisible God has is revealing stuff to us, has revealed stuff to us about himself, his invisible nature, he's revealing to us through what he's made. And so there's something about the creation that God has made that that he's made visible, tangible, practical, material, so that we would know some more about him. And so, right, right out of the gates and answer your question, why didn't God choose to just remain purely spiritual? We we have to go back even further than that and say, why did God even choose to make matter in the first place? Uh I'm not again, I'm not sure I can answer that question in full, but I I think it's important for us to recognize he did it at least, at least to sh to reveal something about himself and for his glory, for his delight, his joy. He didn't have to. It wasn't like he's he was other ancient near ancient Near East myths would say things like, you know, the gods were looking for people to serve them. And so they created these um, you know, demigods or disgusting human creatures and and made them and and they're just a pain in the neck anyway. But the the writers of the Hebrew scriptures are very paint a very different picture about God's heart for matter. Um and then if we look at uh church history a little bit here, uh Athanasius does a great job of digging into the incarnation. He was battling heresies that were suggesting that Jesus wasn't truly human. Maybe he just looked human, just seemed human, but he wasn't actually human. Or maybe he wasn't really God, he was just, you know, a demi-god or partly God. And so he's this early champion of the church who went right into the midst of it. And by the way, because it's Advent, I would highly recommend everyone pick up a copy of Athanasius's on the incarnation and read it. It's a short little book, but it's meaty, and get the edition that has the uh the preface by C.S. Lewis, because that's worth the the cost of the book. But um, but one of the cases that Athanasius makes in this in this book is if if human beings, human beings have have, have, they they sinned. We sinned. We we fell away from God's original intent. Uh, and if we're gonna make that right, then it has to be human beings who make it right. It it couldn't just be someone else making it right. It had to, it had to come from us. But at the same time, because we're in the midst of this corrupted stuff and it's all in us and around us, we can't save ourselves. It's like a drowning person who's got no strength. They there's nothing to stand on. I can't lift myself out of the waters to save myself. And so these things are simultaneously true. And so Athanasius' point is it had to be God. It had to be a greater being outside of humanity to come into humanity, become humanity in order to redeem humanity. That's the theological answer to your question. And I and Athanasius does a much better job than I than I just did, but and and takes greater length to do it too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, but it's so good to to begin to to think about and and to to chew on a little bit. And yeah, I feel like you need to be kind of a cow there, you know, when you're the you know, the you're chewing the cut. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna sit with that for a little bit. And maybe we can put something like that in the show notes that you know listeners can find uh that book with the with specific specifically with the C.S. Lewis. Absolutely. Yeah. So just to dive into that more. Um, yeah, and I'm thinking too, you know, so often, you know, we hear Jesus referred to as the second Adam. Like just think about like the the things that we experience, even in our bodies. Like Jesus experienced these things. Um, you know, and so here's this sort of again, second Adam, another a man kind of showing us uh a different way, God's initial intended purpose, but we also know that Jesus redeems uh humanity.
SPEAKER_00:Um, you know, in in the so let me kick that back to you because you're getting after I realize I'm I'm giving kind of a a biblical or theological answer to the question, but we're the reason we're talking about it is because it relates to the men and women who are wounded sexually, struggling sexually, or hurt by others' sexuality. And so when you think about that, what Max Lukato, for example, kind of fleshed out for you, and you have a sense of like, wait, he really was human. Like, and by the way, the Christian Christian church traditionally would not say that Jesus was human as though he's not anymore, but that he has become human. He has made himself. While he is, he he retains his true divinity, he has also retained his true humanity. We can maybe get into that, but but what I guess yeah I go back to the theological, but but but come back to the pastoral, come back to the what difference does that make to the man you're sitting across from who's betrayed his wife and is really, really trying hard to pull in his pornography use or to learn sexual integrity. What difference does it make that Jesus was a boy, was an adolescent, was a young man, was a man?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think, you know, of um uh of that passage that you know even talks about that you know Jesus himself was tempted in every way, uh, but yet was without sin. And so, you know, I think he knows what it's like to be angry, he knows what it's like to be heartbroken uh and to hurt. Uh and we see that, you know, we see the anger in the the kind of turning uh of the tables in the temple. We see um we see the tears and the the mourning um shed over Lazarus. Um so I I think you know what does this do? It it draws us, or or I don't know if should is the right word or could, but like I am drawn to the fact that he had experiences with other people and had emotions and expressed emotions about these things, yeah. And so for the man or the woman who are struggling and don't want to struggle, I mean, I picture Jesus sitting across from them, you know, seeing them who for who they are, not these things that they've done or are doing, but but see the the person in in front of him, um, tears maybe coming down his face, a hand on the shoulder. Like Jesus could do that. He could put a hand on, and he, and we see that, you know, that in in that embodiment, we see uh healthy, appropriate, and in some ways, maybe even holy touch.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And affection.
SPEAKER_00:Not in some ways, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. You know, so I mean, one of the reasons that just go back to the theology for a minute, one of the reasons that uh the early church wrestled so much around the doctrine of of Jesus full humanity was because there were these things that it seeped into the culture at that point that suggested that matter itself is is inherently bad and always will be, that it's irredeemable. And what you're describing is if that were true, then God could not enter fully into humanity, he could not be a human, it had to be a mirage. But if it's not true, if Jesus entered into humanity, because from his vantage point, the humanity is very good and bears his image and and things like touch and eye contact and hearing someone else speak and sex, if these things are actually designed very good and very holy sacred, then it starts to make sense. Like, oh, Jesus didn't come as a consolation. He he entered into our humanity because he wanted to seek and to save that which was lost, which is precisely the holiness, the sacredness of like the things you're describing. And I'm with you. Like, I I think about the woman who came to Simon the Pharisee's house in Luke 7, and her the physicality of that passage. I mean, she is she is weeping at his feet. She is washing his feet with her hair and her tears. I mean, her, she's got bodily fluids, her, her snot, her, her, her tears on Jesus' feet, and she's wiping them, and and and even why is she there in the first place? What has she encountered from this guy physically? What is she seeing in his facial expressions? What has she heard with her ears of his voice? What's the what's the tenor of his voice, the tone of his voice that she's heard, that that has brought her to this place of great love, as Jesus describes it to Simon? That she's weeping at his feet. And what kind of God is this that he not just permits her, but but permits her and honors her and esteems her above the others at the table, and then turns to her with this beautiful um, your faith has saved you, go in peace. I mean, I I can't I I I think I'm I'm still I still have the toxins in me of the sacred and secular, you know, like say spirit sacred, flesh, secular. Like I can still feel the the toxins in me because I kind of like cringe. I can feel something inside of me pull back a little bit from like, wait, Jesus didn't just allow her, like he liked her touch, he honored her touch. There was there was some kind of communion between them there, like communication through her touch. Um it's probably worth musing on this advent. So so yeah, and and there's something healing about it as we as we wrestle with our own brokenness to like stay in that space and allow ourselves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I wanna I I'm I'm drawn to the the woman in the crowd that comes and and touches his garment. Like, what was she doing? She was going to great lengths to try to fight against that crowd and just get to Jesus to touch him. And what does he say? Who touched who touched me? And and that can be like, you know, in that moment, like I can see two sides of that coin, right? The uh the man or woman who are you know is might be struggling, you know, with their sexual integrity, who touched me? Oh gosh, the shame, like it was me. I'm I'm so sorry, I shouldn't have done that. I'm I'm you know, and just go into this, you know, monologue of how you're less than. But Jesus doesn't do that. You know, he honors, he honors her and and and you know, in a way sort of elevates her. So it's not this shameful like who to who touched me, how dare you? It was like, who touched me? You know, because he knew that so you know, it says power went out of him, and she was healed. And she knew that she was healed. You know, she she knew that. And so I think even in that, she, so there's an invitation there to, I think, not see those words like, you know, who touched me as a, you know, as a as a negative, but as like a that embodiment of this is why I came.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder, I wonder what it would do for for our listeners to either on their own or if they've got a spiritual coach at regen or spiritual director or someone, if they were to spend some time in prayer, just allowing their the good of their imagination, what Lianne Payne called the sanctified imagination. So we've used our imagination for all sorts of evil purposes, lust right at the top of the list for many of our listeners. What if we were to use our sanctified imagination? What what would your mind call out to? What would your mind bring up as the need of your body in relation to Jesus? Like, where would you go? What what picture would it be? Would it be at Jesus' feet with tears? Would it be like pushing through a crowd just to get a get to him? Would it be like one of the little children that he picks up and blesses? Um would it be at the foot of his cross? Would it be at the manger? Like where do you sense, listeners, your your own body longing for the incarnate word of God who came to save you, who made you in the first place, and who came to save you? I think there's something, see, a healing exercise in there for us.
SPEAKER_02:Um my gosh, that is that is so good. Um maybe hit pause right now. You know, as you're listening to this. How does that hit you? Don't don't rush. Don't rush past that if there is something hitting you. Um explore that. Press into that. Yeah, give you just full permission to to press pause. And if you don't listen to the rest of this, totally fine. But I just, oh, what a beautiful invitation, Josh. I just I sense something really profound and something that the Lord wants to do. Um and listeners there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, and for those of you who maybe are skeptical of your imagination and the and the the use of your imagination in prayer, a couple clarifying points. One, uh, imagination does not mean imaginary. We're not talking about you know, creating a you know some fictional version of Jesus. Um likewise, the imagination is as it with all of your faculties given to you by God. And there is no separation for the Lord between sacred and secular. All creation is meant to be sacred. And that doesn't mean inaccessible, it means that you yourself are designed, every part of you designed for union is God. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6 about the body, which your brain is a part from where your imagination comes, um, that uh the body is not designed for sexual morality, but is designed for the Lord. And the Lord is for the body. And here I think he's speaking specifically about this is why Jesus came in the flesh for your body. And um, so if you can imagine yourself like, you know, writing out of prayer, you're using your hand, you're using your mind's capacity to communicate. Um, but the Lord's not limited to words in communication. That word communication is about communion, it's about uh being heard, being understood, being seen, seeing. Uh you you know this if you've got a good friend, or uh you can remember from your mother, father, or um another loved one, a spouse, that sometimes you communicate without words, you know, um a look of the eye. You certainly know this through some of the wounding you've experienced in your life, you know, when a fellow classmate looked at you with eyes of derision, jeering at you, like they communicated something with their eyes in the way they they looked at you with scorn. Um and so the Lord is able to communicate with you, commune with you through your faculties, including your your imagination. So yeah, take the permission. Um, let it be a cry of your heart. I mean, I I I'm I can for me, I am drawn to John at Jesus' breast, chest, leaning against Jesus' chest. And I know there could be a picture of that, like John leaning back. I, if it were me, I would lean sideways and not have my ear to Jesus' chest so I could hear his heart. Just the slow, steady cadence of his heart. Because there's as a man who deals a lot with fear and anxiety and shame, I think there's something to me about just the the thump, thump, thump, thump, thump of Jesus' heart that I I long for.
SPEAKER_01:And I I want to be there.
SPEAKER_00:There's more. There's more. Yeah, there's more for us around the incarnation I don't want us to miss. Um I also don't want to skip past this holy moment. So if you need to pause, pause.
SPEAKER_02:And if you're oh no, sorry, I was just gonna say, I'm again too, like, you know, even the the paralytic, you know, on the mat, he couldn't get to Jesus, but his friends got him to Jesus. Like, so even if there's a way that you feel like there's something, I don't know, there is preventing you, or you know, who's who you know, who is in your life that could be those mat carriers, you know, to get you get you to Jesus. Um, yeah, uh so anyway, I just yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and if you if you don't have anybody, pick us. You know, we're this is what our spiritual coaching and our groups are about. Like we we don't have much, but we can carry a mat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We can we can bring you to a place where you can we'd be honored to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that is such our heart's desire. Um well Josh, you brought up some really um you brought up some things there that I want to maybe build on uh a little bit. Um yeah, let's do it. So you said you kind of got into you know prayer worship, you know, different things like that. So how might prayer, worship, confession look different if you believed your body is the temple where co where Christ dwells and not a problem being managed?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's good, that's good. Yeah, I um I was just talking to uh uh my my church about this not long ago. Uh I I take issue with the the phrase, um, well, I'm only human, you know? Uh like, hey, why do you, you know, I struggle with my quiet times, I struggle to pray, I struggle to stay awake. Yeah, I'm only human. And on one level, it's that's true. It's absolutely you're not God, you know, you're not limitless. Um, we don't believe as Christians the lie that, you know, anything you want to be able to do, put set your mind to it, you can do it. That's not what is meant by Paul when he says, all things are possible for me in Christ. Like, uh, and yet the that kind of diminutive look at I'm only human disregards two two fundamental character, two fundamental truths. One, that there's only one creature on the entire planet made in the image of likeness of God. In all of creation, Genesis 1, there's only one creature who God says this one is created uniquely in my image and my likeness. Um more we can say about that if we had more time. Secondly, there's only one creature, and this brings us right back to the incarnation. There's only one creature in the entire planet that the creator has himself become. There's only one creature in the entire planet that the creator of everything has become. And obviously, in both cases, we're talking about people, human person, in all their physicality, all that makes them spirit, body, soul, mind, will, I mean, however, all these things integrate together. And so when we when we come to the Lord to pray or in confession for the things that we've done with our bodies or fail to do with our bodies, we come not as or we need not come as you know, kind of viewing ourselves as filthy wretches. So I want to be careful because I I know there's a there's a space of humility that that acknowledges our utter need. I I come with nothing. I got nothing, Lord. And yet at the same time, we can come with a level of hope that's just sewn into the fabric of who we are because we are made in God's image. And because Jesus became us, he became human. Uh Athanasius, again, I'm gonna butcher this, but he he he makes a I'm gonna he makes a uh comparison. He said, if if a king moved into your town, he would bring all his regalia, all his forces with him, and suddenly your town would be remade. It would be safe from the enemy in a new way because the king is there. And I'd add to that, you you'd you'd be esteemed to live there. You know, what once was just your town, you know. Like now it's like, well, that's where the king lives. And the same thing is true among humans. When the rest of creation looks at humankind, they don't go, ah, they're only human. They go, that's that's the creature right there. Like, I mean, we, you know, a mountain images God in a way in its grandeur. The the sea images God in a way, in its depth and magnitude, and weight and mystery. But the sea and the mountain look at humans, go like, but that creature images God in a way that's unique in among all of us. And the angels look upon, the angels who are spirits look upon human beings and go, that creature, our God that we worship in front of day and night, became one of them. There, there's an esteem there. And I think we can we can come with that hope that even though we may be soiled, we've done wrong things, wrong things have been done to us. And we feel that in our bodies, we feel that shame. We, I mean, I I know that feeling in my body. Um, and nonetheless, like there's hope because the God of the universe became became us, became one with us. Anyway, let I'm just I I could ramble on, but Aaron, what what what does that draw to you? What does that pop for you? Where did I miss? Like, what would you add? What I don't man.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I I don't know, but but what kind of uh where my mind kind of went was that you know, I it's almost as if you know Christ is saying, uh and I almost kind of picture him looking at his body, you know, not in a vanity kind of way, but you know, being like, huh I'm I'm not ashamed to dwell here. I'm I'm not ashamed to I'm not ashamed to wear this, you know, this body. Um and so yeah, then I think, well, why then then why should why should we? You know, and I know that in in different places of brokenness, and again, you know, through coaching and just different, you know, stories and things, you know, hearing, you know, so much about, you know, again, just maybe thinking about our bodies in a certain way, or you know, being ashamed, or um, you know, it's uh just yeah, just hearing, you know, that visual of just Christ being like, oh, yeah, this is this is pretty great. You know, I like this body, you know, and and so I wonder, you know, you know, just for you know, for the listeners, and you know, where in where in your story do you need to hear that? Where in your story do you need to hear Christ say, I'm not ashamed to dwell here in your body, because our bodies are a temple, and he's not ashamed to dwell in you or me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah, and just just to just to put a theological like little little slant, I think is important, just just so we kind of continue to purge from our minds some of the the wrong thinking that keeps us separated from our bodies. Jesus didn't wear a body. Yeah. He he is a body, he became flesh. That's what John says. The word became flesh, not the word, you know, entered into flesh, disguised himself as flesh. Like, um, and and you and I, we don't wear a body.
SPEAKER_02:We are bodies. We are a body, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We're this we're this strange, mysterious and all of creation fusion of spirit and body together as one. And how those things go together, I don't know. And what happens after death, I don't know. The day is raised, we get a new body, and yet it is still us. Like uh, there's mystery here for sure. But um, but I think it the the reason it matters, the reason, as I heard Christopher West say years ago, theology has consequences, the reason this matters for us is exactly your point. Like Jesus is not ashamed to become body. And then likewise, as he ascends and then sends his Holy Spirit to dwell within us and become fused with our body, become one with us, um, then what difference does that make for us? So we we use earlier that illustration of like where, you know, where does your body wish you could be, want to be, cry out in relation to Christ's body? Maybe, maybe here we'd we come to the point of like, which which part of your body, where in your body do you experience shame? Or do you struggle to feel like this part of my body is is disgusting or is not lovable, not desirable? Maybe it's a part of your body that's out of control. Maybe you feel certain in certain parts of your body, like this is where the unwanted sexual behaviors just happen to me. Um, I wish I didn't get aroused when other men came in the room, for example. Um, maybe that's a part of your body. Maybe it's a part of your body that doesn't fit the beauty standards of the culture. Maybe it's part of your body that's been through surgery or that doesn't work the way it's meant to. Maybe it's part of your body that someone else has violated. The Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the eternal Holy Spirit of God, who is all love for you, is not ashamed of your body, and desires to be in you, with you, not in a not in a violating way, not in a puritanical way. He's fully aware of what you've done with your body, he's fully aware of how you felt about your body, fully aware of what others have done to your body, but as the the beautiful, purifying, holy, nothing but love, God that He is, like um desires to bring redemption to your body, healing, new life, um, freedom from shame. I I'm saying these words trying to wrap my own heart, mind, body around these words. I I don't get it. There are parts of my body I still feel ashamed about that that don't look good to me, and I don't want other people to see them. You know, like uh so I'm preaching to myself here. But um, but when we're thinking about the area of sexuality, it is so important to know that our our the the Lord sees our bodies as sacred every part. Um and we didn't even get into, we haven't even gotten into um how our our sexual parts specifically image God and why they matter so much to him. But before I go there, Aaron, what what's happening for you? What are you hearing thinking? Anything you wanted to comment on from just that what you were saying before and God's spirit in us.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I don't know. I mean, I I'm thinking, you know, it because that's true, um, you know, that that can also change things like how we see community um and touch and and being able to, and we know this, you know, from you know, here at Regen and coaching virtually compared to you know having a retreat in person. You know, there's there's something different about being with in in like embodied, you know, we use the word embodied brotherhood like on the on the on our retreat. And and there was just exactly that. Like we're in person, we're laying hands on, we're we're able to hug, we're able to to see the tears, to hand a Kleenex, to um, and so you know, I think you know, there's something that happens in our in our in our healing, or even just in that in the process of just um becoming more whole in this area of like if if these things are true, then things like community have a lot of power in our lives. Yeah. Um, our churches, our the small groups that we attend, the the home groups, the you know, these aren't just groups of people, these are groups of image bearers, these are groups of Christ dwellers, Holy Spirit dwellers, and and we are too. It's not just them, it's us too. And gosh, if that just doesn't, you know, uh I I don't know. That just speaks to, you know, I think just some of those things I said, you know, the importance of being able to to hug, lay hands on, you know, um, uh, you know, even healthy pleasure, you know, there's there there are things these things play such a such Significant role, I think, in our, you know, using a big theological term, sanctification, or becoming more, you know, like like him on this side of eternity.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, the other thing that possibly as you're saying that, Aaron, is like we we spend so much time thinking content, content, content. Like, let me just get the latest information, let me say the right things to somebody, uh, let me answer the questions. Um this is this is our our post-Enlightenment kind of training. Uh even even the phrase you use, like embodied brotherhood, like there was a day and age that that wouldn't make any sense whatever. Like, what other kind of brotherhood is there? Like that, you know, of course. Uh and we live in this virtual age where, but but what it, what if, Christian, what if you were to begin practicing the reality that just by the fact that you are present with another person, you are giving a gift to the other person, your very presence, your body with that person. I mean, I I remember that when I when I first began uh receiving the ministry of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands from other people. Ministry of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands of other people sounds so intimidating. And I'll tell you though, like just having a brother lay his hand on my shoulder or on the upper part of my back. Like, I couldn't, I couldn't deny, like just the touch felt good. I was a single man. It just felt good to be touched. It wasn't anything erotic about it. There wasn't anything inappropriate about it. It just was a brother putting his hand on me. And and that's not mutually exclusive from the spiritual impact of the laying on of hands. It goes together. I mean, so there's something. What it what if we were to begin just acknowledging? And and if you're in a space of needing healing, you're in a space of needing to begin to experience the love of God in your body because you've viewed your body as just a uh a tool of sin. Or what what would it be like to be in opening yourself to the ministry of the Holy Spirit just through the presence of somebody else? One of the things that one of our the people on the retreat shared as a point of reflection. I can't remember uh all the details, but one of the things they said was how meaningful it was in their small group. We we had small groups all over the place, and many of them were outside and it was sunny. And they mentioned about James, one of our other coaches here, um, how meaningful it was that he took his sunglasses off when he was listening. And he said that the eye contact made made such a difference. So that that guy is just an example of opening himself up to something different in his experience of receiving the Lord's love through the the eye contact of a brother. And I just wonder if there might be some ways that um some of our listeners could just benefit and grow and grow and heal and be transformed through opening themselves. So like it just feels good to be with brothers or sisters. It feels good to receive a hug. I got one friend who um, I get a couple friends actually who they're just big huggers. Uh, if I go to shake their hand, they're like, no, no, no, no. Yeah, like, yeah, Aaron. Aaron's one of them. Um, but uh, I got one one brother who when we get together, he hugs me long. And there are two ways for me to to deal with that. One is to just endure it and kind of be like, yeah, this is awkward. The other is just kind of like sink into it and go, like, okay, Lord, thank you. Thank you. Um Aaron, we gotta, we gotta cover a little bit more ground here because um, and and we get kind of back into the the theological a little bit with the incarnation and and the part it plays in healing our sexual brokenness. Um there's there's dignity in the fact that Jesus became human, that he became flesh. Uh and and we've we've alluded to this and this this goes hand in hand with what we talked about, but I think it's worth just mentioning right up like explicitly, that only in Jesus' humanity and him becoming fully human did he then bear up and out of humanity our corruption and our sin through his cross and resurrection. Uh and this gets out of Advent and into Lent and Easter, but it's, you know, his life was one fabric of of self-giving love. And and the culminating, the culmination of his life is uh is him bearing out of humanity like a uh like someone sucking poison from a snake bite. Uh, the sin and brokenness, the sin and and and shame and death that we have uh that's just been in us since the fall. And we still experience it. We're still not, you know, this Jesus is going to come again. And and uh 1 John 3, John writes that, hey, you know, those of us who've seen him, we like it's happening. Like we're children of God now. This is for real. And yet it's not yet seen who we will be when we see him at his second appearing. Um so there's more to come. But um, but the other good news, and this goes back to your initial question, like why, why, why would God become human? Uh bearing the the worst of the worst that we've done and the worst of the worst that's been done against us. And we sin with our bodies. We love other bodies, we sin with our bodies. This is not just sentiments, these are like real things that we do. Um, and yeah, they're spiritual sins too, things that we don't do with our bodies. Envy would be an example of that, pride would be an example of that. Um, they they can be manifested through our bodies, but these are things we do. Um other part of who we are. But but Jesus entered into all Jesus entered into all of that, that we could be free from it. This is not the end. Um and so, in whatever way you're you're wrestling with your own sexuality, something done against you, um, something that you've done, Jesus has entered into that mess. Um, and he did it on the cross where uh he became sin. Uh Paul writes that he who he who knew no sin became sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in him. And this is something that that we become in our in our bodies. Um yeah. So uh Aaron, pick up there. What what would you add, or what what does that kind of do as you think about the the importance of the incarnation as it relates to sexual wholeness, sexual healing, sexual integrity, or even integration, as you were talking about at the beginning?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um well, gosh, I mean, I just think it really can reshape um, or really, I don't know if reshapes the right word, but I mean it it can help us think more um, you know, I think even holistically about our you know, femininity, our masculinity, our um our intimacy, um, our whole like you know, our relationship with the you know, with God, you know, who became flesh. Um, you know, to me, like you know, you were talking about this earlier too, you know, but just yeah, he didn't be he didn't become a mountain, he didn't become a a buffalo, uh, he didn't become, you know, he became man. He became uh, you know, uh someone that we could be with, dwell with, see cry, experience, like you know, and that that is so profound. It is so profound, you know, that you know, God in in creation calls uh calls uh you know man really good. And then he decides, you know, yeah, I'm you know Jesus is gonna I'm I'm I'm gonna become you know God in the flesh in the thing that I called really good. Um and I think yeah, that's just really good news. You know, that's oh my gosh. Um, but yeah, I mean it it does it allows us to in that light, you know, frame how we think about ourselves as men, as women, as as beings with desire, uh, you know, and um and and those different things, you know. How is all of that, how do we take all of that and allow that to sort of inform and help shape our holiness unto him?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. If you're hearing nothing else today, I hope you're hearing some some doors, some hallways kind of toward engagement with the Lord, towards some interaction, some prayerful interaction, some conversation, maybe some banging at the door of ways to be reconnecting with the Lord. And certainly I hope you're hearing and feeling even some invitation in your body, how much your body really longs for the Lord. Um, the Lord in his body, uh, the Lord who is spirit. Um He he has become human and He has retained His Godhead and base God for both. And how he does that, uh interestingly, the creeds don't tell us uh because they don't know. Like we don't know. Um, but thank thank God he has. Um but we didn't, you know, we we just kind of brushed over a little bit of what's known as theology of the body. And uh um we'll we'll you know, if you've listened long for this, you'll know we'll get into it. We've we did a podcast, a couple, a couple, pup, a couple podcasts uh earlier in the fall with Christopher West, and he he takes a deep dive into theology of the body. Um, and so we'd encourage you to to dig in there too, because I think that's one of the other places that helps us to really get a clearer sense of the dignity that is uh that is woven into the fabric of our design as men and as women. That that's part of what I was thinking as you're talking about masculinity and femininity. These are not just ethereal concepts, they are rooted and grounded in our bodies, which make visible invisible attributes of God, uh, including specifically in our maleness and female, that which makes us male or female, meaning our our genitalia, male and female. Uh, these image God in a profound way. And uh, and when Jesus came to seek and save that which is lost, part of what he wanted to do is restore the sacred, holy, beautiful aspects of what it means to be a man and a woman. Uh, and man, if that's not pertinent in a very uh meaningful way right now in our culture, uh, I don't know what is. Yeah. So Merry Christmas. Whatever, whatever you experience this Christmas. Yep. And if you listen to this after Christmas, whatever you experience in your day-to-day, bodily urges, bodily shame, bodily struggles, these are not diversions from the Christian faith. They are right in the midst of it. And all those things are why God became flesh and why his spirit dwells within us and has come for us, and why he's returning uh to give us uh new life in the flesh. Um, this is all this this all weaves together. It's it's not, we are not going to one day rid ourselves of these earthly bodies, these earthly bodies will be raised to new life. Uh, thank God, thank God, thank God.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so just a yeah, I think a final word, and it's really more of a question, I think, for the listener on that exact note, Josh, is what does the word became flesh out of John 1.14? What does that invite you to become in your own story? And so I'm gonna let you sit with that listener. The word became flesh. What does that invite you to become in your own story? Josh, will you pray a sound?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Jesus, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for our bodies, Lord. Thank you that we are bodies. Thank you for what our bodies are designed by you, with your your care, uh, your infinite attention and detail. Thank you, Lord, for what our bodies are designed to say about you and about your heart toward us. And Lord, we just say with our listeners today, enter in more fully into us, that we would experience the redemption of our bodies that is ours in Christ. Jesus, thank you that you didn't uh leave us to our own devices, but you, and man, if this isn't the most impossible thing to believe, but the most important thing for us to believe, that you became you, God, infinite God, became a human person.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Lord.
SPEAKER_00:May what you did and who you who you are uh have full effect in our lives, that our bodies would glorify you as we are made to do. Or we ask it for your glory, we ask it for our good and our joy. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
.png)
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
