Heights Wellness Retreat CEO Shane Evans on Building a Wellness Empire

Shane Evans, founder of Massage Heights turned Heights Wellness Retreat, joins Jack & Jill Johnson and the Franchise Insiders team to share how a personal health journey transformed a 100+ location massage franchise into a full-service wellness retreat featuring cryotherapy, red light therapy, infrared saunas, halotherapy, and more.

Shane breaks down the brand evolution, why younger millennials and Gen Z are driving the wellness boom, how franchisees are thriving in first-year revenue with the new model, and the pre-opening membership playbook that targets 300 members before day one. Plus, hear what it was really like on Undercover Boss, why the right operator matters more than the right market, and what Shane looks for in franchise partners after 20 years of building the brand.

Whether you're exploring franchise ownership or already in the game, this episode is packed with insights on scaling, culture, and riding the wellness franchise wave.

🔥 Find your franchise match in under 3 minutes: https://www.thefranchiseinsiders.com/heights-wellness-retreat-franchise

Visit www.thefranchiseinsiders.com to subscribe.
Send us your questions for an upcoming episode at 305-710-0050.
From your pals in franchise ownership, Jack and Jill Johnson.

The Franchise Insiders

Podcast

Schedule A Call

Text: 305-710-0050

Take our FREE Business Builder Assessment

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Hi everyone, welcome back to the We Bought a Franchise podcast. I'm Jack Johnson.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

I'm Jill Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

And today we are joined with a legendary guest in the world of franchising, Shane Evans, who is the founder of Massage Heights, which is now the Heights Wellness. And we're also joined with Katherine Allen, Jay Arosa, and Morgan Knowler. Shane, welcome to the show. We're so excited to finally have you.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

From Debilitating Pain To A Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:49

So, Shane, you have an incredible story. Yours actually is somewhat similar to ours, in that when Jill and I, you know, first became franchise consultants, we we kind of threw everything on the line. We sold our house, we used the money from selling the house to start our business. We didn't make any money for the first eight months. And when I look at your background, you had like this, I guess, you had like really debilitating back pain. And so much so that it caused you to sort of mortgage your own future and start a business. Can we just dive right into the American dream here and talk about how this started?

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Yeah, in my early 20s, I started having some lower back pain that would that was pretty debilitating. I'd be on the floor for about two weeks, and I kept on getting chiropractic for it, and it would just make it worse. And I finally discovered massage therapy. And that was a long time ago, and it was not mainstream. So I got this massage in the gym that I worked at. I was a manager at a health club at the time. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You know, I want to get them all the time. And instead of being down two weeks, I was down like two days. So I so I embraced that and I loved it. And I had an appreciation for the benefits of massage therapy at a very young age. And just sort of became obsessed. And so fast forward multiple years later, I got a subpar massage at a high-end hotel spa for way too much money. And I'm like, I can do something different and better. You know, people just need that hands-on therapy. Doesn't have to be the full experience of the spa. We're just looking for the therapeutic benefit, you know, most of the time. Going to the spa is fabulous when you have the time. But really, people need it on a regular basis. And so April 4th, 2004, Massage Heights was born. And it was really, again, out of my sort of appreciation, need, and the desire to bring it to a lot of people. So affordable, convenient, professional. And that was that was where it all started. In San Antonio, Texas, a little area called Alamo Heights, Massage Heights was born.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

And thus the name Massage Heights.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

And you know what's crazy, Shane, is that I've I have a similar story in that. In 2019, I started getting really bad sciatica pain, debilitating, right? It would go all the way down my leg. And it is, you know, and I did the same thing. I went to a chiropractor and it made it worse. And then it's like I found, then I got to another doc who recommended massage, but also they said that the stronger the pain, the more you need to try and move and walk. And you're not, it's it sounds crazy, but the nothing worked for me as well as massage. And now we do it like once a week. And it's the same thing as what you're talking about, where when you find someone who's really good, and then you go to, you know, that resort, we were just talking about the one hotel, not throwing shade, great hotel. But an expensive, underwhelming massage. So I think that's just it's true.

Why Therapeutic Beats Luxury Spa

SPEAKER_03 3:45

But the actual massage is is a whole nother thing. And so getting a great massage and then regularly, anytime I would go in and get a massage at a resort or you know, fancy spa, they'd always tell me you need to get regular massages. And as I'm laying on the bed, I'm like, you're right, I need to, but like, did I? No, I didn't. And now that we've been doing it regularly, I mean it's a huge difference. And I don't need all the fancy oils and you know, I want the the good massage, you know, and I think on therapy that's gonna make a difference. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

The Case For Routine Bodywork

SPEAKER_05 4:16

I I had a massage yesterday at my hotel where I'm at right now. Speaking of massages, and it was amazing, but it was, she said at the end, she's like, You need to come back for a 90-minute and I need to work on your shoulders because I carry so much stress in my neck and my upper back. And every time I go in for a massage, because I don't go frequently, they tell me that. And they're like, oh my goodness, because I am doing so much with the businesses and all the things. And so I'm, you know, the mom, the the working professional, like many of our listeners are out there. And so I do need that frequent massage because it does build up. And I and I can't be the luxury massage and what I had yesterday was phen phenomenal, but I can't afford that all the time and I don't have the time for that. So that's why I love your concept.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

Yeah, well, and a lot of us, I mean, especially since 2020, we're sitting at desks a lot, right? People are still working from home in in in many instances, and we're just sitting a whole lot. We're on Zoom meetings all day long. What used to be a conference call, right, is now a Zoom meeting. And everything's a Zoom meeting. And so, yeah, I think like it you really will start seeing that in your shoulders and your neck. And so good for you. Glad you're glad you're all doing that on a regular basis. I too get them at least once a week. So something I will never stop doing.

Recovery Culture And Brand Evolution

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Well, and it's what I love so much about how you've evolved the concept. And I think we'll probably there's so many angles to your your story that I want to cover, but I I think it's worth I'd love just to hear about, you know, how you've evolved the concept because it has so many of the things that I think are so great. And the whole team is so sick of hearing me talk about how much I love saunas and cold plunges. But, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, we were not putting so much emphasis on on taking care of our bodies, right? It was more, oh, got to work out, got to work out every day. And now it's, yeah, we still have to work out, we've got to get the right nutrition, but we also have to focus on recovery. I'd love to hear, you know, what sort of spurred on the evolution of the brand and maybe give us the the high points if you wouldn't mind.

COVID Resilience And Membership Model

A Daughter’s Health Journey Shapes Strategy

Adding Tech-Enabled Wellness Modalities

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Sure. So multiple things. And I'm gonna go back a little bit and share just a personal story with you. I knew before the COVID era that it was time to evolve the brand. And we started exploring it. And then, you know, COVID, and it was like, okay, let's just hone in on the fundamentals, the foundation, make sure our franchisees are good, that we're keeping the members that we have, that we've got a plan to make sure that we don't lose everything. And the model was awesome because it's membership based and the services that you accumulate roll over. And so what happened during that time was people were just rushing in, right? They wanted that hands-on care and the demand was there. And so our model was did very, very well during that time, believe it or not. A lot of people were like, oh my gosh, Shane, y'all must be really hurting. I'm like, no, absolutely not. It's absolutely opposite of that, right? So the model did very, very well, but we we we put it on hold. And then I stepped away for a little bit. I actually thought, you know, maybe I should professionalize this a little bit more, bring in a hired gun, and I brought somebody else in. And the the evolution did not happen. Well, during that time in 2021, 22, my daughter Grady, who is now 19, just turned 19, started experiencing some really odd symptoms. And they are neuromuscular symptoms. And I started going down the rabbit hole of things that I could do to help her. We still don't have a diagnosis today, which is crazy. We've done all kinds of genome sequencing tests and blood work, everything you can imagine. And we still don't have a diagnosis. But so I thought, what can I do to help her sustain what she has, right? And a lot of that came down to red light therapy, really, really important. Even her functional neurologist, that's what he had her doing, red light therapy, hyperbaric oxygen chamber, and some other things that help with the vagus nerve and all of that. And so her, her own debilitating situation is really what got me way deep down the rabbit hole of these types of services. Um, I always knew that there was there was benefit, but I didn't know to what degree the benefit was. So if I could help her, you know, keep what she had, she just to give you an idea. I mean, she's she's got muscle wasting, she's got drop foot. I mean, it's it's serious stuff, right? And she has to get OT and PT and all sorts of things. So then I really thought, this is not just, you know, there's a lot of different brands that have the some of these services popping up. And a lot of them are single modality, right? Like you can go here and get the Sana or whatever. But I I don't really believe, I don't think that I really understood the real benefits to that until I until I started going down that, that, that journey with her. Um, and so then that was it. And I'm like, you know what? We have got to, we've got to explore this further for heights because I think that these types of services combined with the hands-on care that we're really, really good at would be very beneficial to people. So we started, you know, with data, right? Our own membership base of the hundred plus locations that we have across the country in Canada. What are the members saying? What are third-party resources saying? We did a lot of research. What is, you know, the biggest up-and-coming group of spenders and the people that are actually sort of creating the trends and really buying into wellness and longevity is the younger generation. So you've got your younger millennials and your Gen Z's, and they're really leading the way and they're influencing their older peers, parents, and all of that in this space, right? And so let's build something for that generation because they already get it. And so that's really what brought us to Heights Wellness Retreat and the brand evolution.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

And it's so cool. I mean, it there's so many things. Like there, there, there's meditation, right? There you have the red light therapy, and I believe you got you guys have cryotherapy. I mean, it's like what it is, is it's it's uh it just sounds like bliss. It sounds like just me time in such an incredible way.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I mean, you know, the other thing obviously is franchisee profitability, right? And so we we I didn't want them to have to be so highly dependent on humans. And we love the humans, and the humans are still very important to the business model because that is what actually creates the feeling, that relationship, right? But yeah, so we're doing cryotherapy, red light therapy, full spectrum sauna, technology-based lymphatic drainage, halotherapy, which is salt, technology-based meditation. Um, and uh, and we're continuing to add more things. So there's a really cool, I don't know if you guys have seen it yet, but there's a really cool device called the Immortal Chamber. Have you seen it?

SPEAKER_03 10:57

No.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

You need to look for it. It is a seven-in-one device, red light, vibroacoustic therapy, hydrogen, uh, meditation, a 25-minute session. You'll have visions. It's it's so relaxing. Wow. You will literally have clarifying moments. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Do you think that the local franchisee here in Boca Raton Del Rey has this machine?

SPEAKER_04 11:24

Not yet. Not yet.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

I'm ready. As soon as they do, you guys let us know. I'll be there.

Inside The Immortal Chamber Concept

SPEAKER_04 11:30

Yeah, they're not in a lot of places yet, but they they work with a number of professional sports teams and and that sort of thing. And I I found them at a biohacking conference last year. And they're just the it's just it's a really cool device. So, you know, it's for like people don't have time to do all those different things. You'd be somewhere for two or three hours if you just did, you know, individual services. And so it gives you the ability to get it all done in a short period of time.

Designing A Social Wellness Experience

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Thank you for sharing that personal story. I think the best outcomes usually come when you have a real strong personal experience. So I've not been to any of your uh locations, but just hearing you talk about the different services and all that. I'm really curious, like for the viewers, can you describe just the vibe and the feel of when you walk into one of your stores, what can they expect? What are they gonna feel, what are they gonna experience? And your typical, I guess, member or guest, if you will. I mean, why do they keep coming back?

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Yeah, I'm happy to explain the experience because it is awesome. I mean, we've been very, very thoughtful about the experience with the evolution. And so when you come in, you're in the area that we call we call the rise. And then we call it the rise because this is where you come to rise, right? And it's a reception area, and that's all it is in the sense of we don't people don't sit and wait there, right? So it is literally used, it's it's very vibey, it's kind of high energy. We have different stages like a sunrise and a sunset, the music changes. And it's it was really important that that was a very energetic area to me because a lot of the people that our franchisees hire are young, young people, right? And we wanted them to love the space that they're working. And ultimately that area is used to talk to our guests about what their wellness goals are. And so, and then based on the wellness goals, we basically recommend a journey. And that journey is a combination of services depending on what they want to accomplish. Um, and then when the guest returns, that is they're leaving, that is where we talk to them about our past membership, right? So we wanted it to be very energetic. So once we get them checked in, we talk about the goals, we actually move them into the well. And the well is a lot of people will describe it as kind of this Tulum-like feel. It's got a really cool vibe to it and it's very social. So we set it up very social intently. So it it's it's kind of a social club environment. We hold VIP events there, influencer events. It's a place that people can just chill between their different modalities, talk, right? And so, um, and then the well is surrounded by the ascension circuit. And the ascension circuit, super cool. So imagine you're in this kind of like dark, vibey place, and then you've got this light coming through these doors, and that light is literally from you know the different modalities. So the cryotherapy, and that door opens and that cryo fog kind of seeps into the well. It's super cool. And yeah, it's a vibe. It's it's a total vibe. And then right after you have what we call the drift. I know it it really is. It's so it's it's gorgeous. I mean, you walk in and you're like, whoa. Yeah, well, we're building, so we're converting and building. But yeah, it's I mean, it's beautiful. That's so the drift lounge is where we have the vibroacoustic therapy and the meditation technology. And then you go down into the oasis, and the oasis is this like really soft, beautiful, but sort of dramatic area where all of our massage tables and skincare tables and all of that are. So yeah, it's uh it's a very cool space. Very cool space.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Back in the day, I would have thought that something like this would be really good for like California or Florida or Texas or something where people are really into wellness, but now it's become such a national movement of people really wanting wellness. Are you are you seeing that the franchisees, the top performers, are they more spread out than they used to be? Or is it still kind of like certain states are performing better than others?

Operator Skill Over Market Myths

Unit Economics And Conversion Rollout

SPEAKER_04 15:18

No, it's not certain states. It's it's really the operator, right? I mean, it it always comes down to the operator. Obviously, location is a great help when you've got a great location with a lot of visibility and traffic, but you can take a kind of subpar location with a great operator and it'll rock and roll, right? So um it always comes down to execution. And so, no, I mean, we've got locations that in various areas of the United States that are, you know, perform very, very well. But I can tell you, I have a I have a one operator that has now eight locations. And she started as she started as a single owner, single unit owner. And she that between her eight locations last year, she netted somewhere around, right? Like she's a phenomenal operator. And some of those she built from the ground up, others she acquired. And there's one thing that happens every single time is that poor performing location all of a sudden is sitting somewhere around either average or above, right? So we're average unit volumes about just the massage model. With Heights Wellness Retreat, our projections are looking more around five in that first year of business. So we take that massage heights model we know works around six to eight hands-on treatment rooms. That'll give you easily. And then you add on those touchless modalities, right, which are far more profitable. Um, and then you're looking at around, you know, we've got a lot of work to do still. We're converting locations across the country. We started with high performers, early adopters, people that really wanted to go on the journey with us. And then what's happening is franchisees are raising their hand and going, oh my gosh, okay, all right, I'm seeing what's happening here, you know, and so we'll convert probably about 40% of our system by the by the end of this year.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

And then everything else we're building is brand new.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

So you know, Shane, it's so interesting that you you say that. There was a uh you're you're on the the board of the IFA, correct?

SPEAKER_04 17:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

So Shelly's son, who I think she was the IFA chair for for a number of years, she had Bright Star, and I I was involved, as was Jay and Jill and Catherine, in a franchise called Home Care Assistance. And when Shelly brought on the medical care in addition to or what they call skilled care in addition to the non-medical, Brightstar's item 19, and I don't know the exact number, so I won't quote it, but it essentially doubled. And it reminds me of exactly what you're saying, where you bring on these other modalities, either these other services, and you're going to see the average revenue jump. So just very, you know, interesting stuff in terms of, and I think it makes so much sense. And it, as Morgan was saying, in today's day and age, there's such a bigger focus on wellness, and we see it exploding this year in franchising. I don't know if I told you, but two weeks ago we had the ultimate human center, Jen Kane, who does sales for that franchise. She was on their free franchise sales. What's that?

SPEAKER_04 18:16

I said Jen used to do my franchise sales.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Well, they're perfect bet, right? I know. Perfect bet. And then last week we had the founders of HB Protein Smoothies on, where every smoothie is under 250 calories, it's all natural, and everything's 35 grams of protein. And so we're seeing this year, there is such a shift towards wellness. And you might be sitting there saying, Well, duh, this has been my world forever. But there is such demand picking up for this type of thing. But I want to go back to one thing that you said that I think is really important for everyone listening. Um, and this this will tie into your IFA experience. So there's been a lot of talk over the past couple of years about responsible franchising. And I love what you said in that high-performing franchise owners will do well in almost, you know, that it you could take put them in Green Bay, Wisconsin or in Beverly Hills, California. They're going to do well because they're high performers. Yeah. And I really do think, and this is why we spend so much time at franchise insiders, before we ever show someone a franchise, we have them take a Zorical analysis. We do a deep profile, you know, comp to see where they fit high performers, where they match them, and show them categories before we ever show them a brand. We say, you match top performers in these five types of franchises. Let's pick two categories that resonate the most with you because there's been too much. And this is, you know, for us as franchise consultants, while we make no guarantees or promises, we really want to help people do it right, you know, find the right franchise and bring you guys franchisees that make sense. Um, and that means removing emotion from the selection process and really using data, just like you guys are doing at health and wellness, to really nail that franchise fit.

Square Footage And Build Costs

SPEAKER_04 20:00

Yeah, so important. I was actually invited to participate in a in a session for students in a business school, but on franchising the last two days. And I I was at uh at Unleashed Brands yesterday, is where we were and propelled brands the the day before. And I don't I don't know if you know Jerry Akers. Do you know Jerry?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

He's not personally, but certainly no.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Yeah. So he was there. And so he did this actual session with these students where he basically gave them sort of a way to determine what would not one, like what would actually fit them, right? And their goals and you know what what interests them, but also to evaluate the business opportunity and to really come out of it and say, well, with this one I see this could be a problem, or with this one. And what he said there was exactly what you just said was take the emotion out of it, right? Like if you you eventually might get there, but initially you you you can't do it on emotion, right? It it needs to fit your lifestyle, it needs to fit your goals for your family and for yourself, right? And it needs to, it needs to fit a lot of things, obviously. On top of that, capital and all those, right? But yeah, I think you gotta make, it's gotta be a smart decision. If you're gonna work the business, you really do need to enjoy it and love it. But the bottom line is you would hope as a franchisee that you're not gonna be in those four walls, right? That you're gonna scale it to the degree in which you've got a bench and a management team, and now you're opening number two and number three and so on and so forth, and you're able to work on the business instead of in the business. So yeah, I think that process is so important because the wrong franchise for the right franchisee and vice versa, you can end up disastrous.

Undercover Boss And Talent Pipeline

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, and it's process is so important in franchising. And so it's interesting you brought up Zoom earlier. All of our intakes, all of our first calls with a new client are held over a Google meet. And it's when we schedule a call, they get a reminder about five times over the course of 24 hours, you know, prior to their call with us. Here's what time we're meeting, here's your Google Meet link. We'll see you at this time. And if they can't figure that part out, if they don't show up to the call and then we say, Hey, sorry, we miss you, they say, Well, I was I was waiting for you to call me. We told you 20 times. We're going to see on the Google Meet for us. We know the strongest franchise owners are good team players and they can follow a system and they understand the details. So we really do try and do a lot of that up front for you guys, knowing, you know, ourselves, and this is the whole thesis of our company, which is franchise owners helping future franchise owners. I mean, on this call, you've got Catherine, who is the top soccer stars franchisee amongst what, Catherine, 110 franchisees?

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Well, I just saw the Rock and Stack today, and I'm number one in the entire center single brand at YAU for revenue. So and I'm in Cabo, and this is our board meeting. My husband and I were having, so it's, you know, working on the business. I'm working on the business right now. I am working, but my manager is at home running all the day-to-day operations. So that is the beauty of franchising. You do the work. I mean, I you do the work, but I love it. And I'm just building and scaling so I can step out and focus on the things that I love. But I I did want to bring it back to you, Shane. Sorry, with the capital piece. What does it cost? What is the initial investment to get started? And what are we talking in terms of square footage for something like, you know, your concept?

Culture That Attracts And Retains Pros

SPEAKER_04 23:37

Yep. So sweet spots 26 to 2,800 square feet. Yep. And we're looking at right now 1.1 is what we've seen so far. Now I will tell you, I mean, we've built some fairly big locations, right? So obviously that is going to, so we're building one in Dallas right now that's 4,200 square feet. The one that we built in LA and opened a couple months ago is 3,200 square feet. There, it was prime real estate. And you know, the franchisee really won it. That franchisee in LA came as a big, big, big operator and in a restaurant. So 149 units. And his wife comes from hospitality and all that. So, anyways, they you, you know, with certain operators, you know they know they get it, right? And you're like, okay, well, we can do that. So yeah, so but we can get it into 2,600 square feet well. And we're we're continuing to refine that a little bit too, right? And you know, it kind of depends on the layout. You can you can sometimes get it into a little bit less, but we we can create a really great cool space with the well being sort of the hub and social center of it with that amount.

SPEAKER_05 24:43

I feel like, are you in San Francisco? Sorry, are you in San Francisco yet? By chance. No, no, no. Love to be open as a market.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we're I mean, we're really uh the the only markets, I mean, there's no market that we couldn't do anything in, but San Antonio and Houston are pretty tapped out for us because that's where we grew first. And we're in, you know, converting all those locations to high smallness. So not completely out of the question, but very limited in those two markets.

unknown 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Do any of the franchisees own the real estate?

SPEAKER_04 25:17

Well, we've got a Canadian franchisee that owns several locations and they've got they own the real estate. They're in Calgary, but nowhere else.

Corporate And Community Partnerships

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Okay. No. And by the way, I should say, well, one, Catherine, look out because Morgan's coming for you for sure. Morgan's also a soccer stars owner. And Jay, Jay was one of the top franchise owners we had at home care assistance. I won't share what revenue he he did, but uh it was mind-blowing. So awesome. Our our team, we love to help people do it right and help them win. And we're just so proud to to to have all of you guys on the call or on these podcasts and helping clients do this the right way. So I have a I have a question, and I'm sure the team has many more questions too. But what was it like on undercover boss?

SPEAKER_04 25:57

Well, you were on undercover boss, that thing is so yes, it's been a long time. It's been a long time. It was an interesting experience. You know, I mean, it's it's you know, they don't tell you at all what to say. They just make you say something so many times that you eventually either get frustrated, cry, freak out like it's you know, you're exhausted. They they've got you working and traveling, you know, 16, 18 hours a day. And so, you know, it was an interesting experience. It was a learning opportunity. There wasn't anything that I didn't know. You know, we own the supply chain. I knew which franchisees were utilizing our product versus not. You know, you kind of just you you think about all the possible worst-case scenarios, you know, before you go in and do something like that. And yeah, it was interesting. You know what came out of that, which was super cool. We ended up awarding us some franchises from it. But what was really, really cool was the very first day that it aired, we had over 3,500 people apply for jobs at our franchisees' locations. So that was super cool.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah.

Pre-Sales Playbook: 300 Members Before Day One

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Yeah, that was that was a great outcome for the franchisees. So just more brand exposure, you know, massage therapists applying for jobs with them. And so that was good. Kind of funny. One of my girlfriends in franchising sent a screenshot the other day of Undercover Boss, and she said, which is crazy because it's so old. I'm like, where did this come from? And she said, Oh my gosh, when you get on TikTok and Shane's undercover boss pops up, somebody had taken AI and done something with it, and it it's now this like piece. I'm like, okay, that thing is haunting me forever. It was an interesting experience, but you know, not one I'd probably want to do again.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Well, you know, it's been a good episode if you got so many people trying to work for you, Shane.

SPEAKER_04 27:45

So Yeah, I mean, that was really good. That was really, you know what? And to it, this this is also kind of cool. With this brand evolution, we have been able to attract some amazing talent. At HQ, we are we're continuing to build our infrastructure. There's a lot going on between the brand new ones coming up, you know, opening and then the conversions, and then we've got resales too, because we're, you know, we've got franchisees, legacy franchisees that have been here for a long time. So there's a lot going on. But we've been able to attract some really stellar talent at HQ, but also at the retreats. So the the therapists are loving this evolution because they can be more prescriptive. So if they're giving somebody massage, they can also say, you know, you really should go and do this, this, or this, right? Um, and it's just creating an awesome work environment for all that work there. And so we we really believe that this positions us as the brand of choice in the space. And it is making it easier to attract and retain the therapists who are still core to our to our business model. So yeah, that's been an awesome thing that's come out of it too. And we didn't need undercover boss for that.

Change Management And System Momentum

SPEAKER_00 28:51

So I had a question. Like I mentioned a little earlier prior to this podcast chain that my, you know, I have a son, he's an athlete, so I can totally see how athletes can benefit from you know the type of uh massage services that and the complete holistic services you guys provide. But does the corporate world kind of like play into you know a customer base for a lot of your franchisees? Do they do they approach corporations and try to get on their wellness packages or anything like that?

SPEAKER_04 29:19

Or we have we have corporate programs and some franchisees are really good at at doing that. You know, we definitely recommend that they do often, you know, you just start talking to people and you're like, oh, I'm uh whatever at this company, you know, and oh, wouldn't, you know, would your team benefit from this, right? So yes, that is part of the way that we attract new customers. But, you know, again, I think some people are really good at, you know, getting out and doing those types of things and and others just are that's just not their forte, right? But yeah, corporate programs are a good way to to bring a lot of people in fairly quickly and and get new members signed up. We do a lot of uh local kind of communities. Do you do anything with college athletics departments with so we have we have in the past a lot of these, yeah, a lot, you know, a lot of these these colleges have their own therapists and equipment and things like that. And often my my daughter was a D1 athlete. She she played volleyball at Baylor, and they don't necessarily wanting you to go and get some of these things outside of the scope of right, the athl at the athletic department. But I mean, that's a great suggestion. Yeah. In some cases, certainly, you know, smaller schools. We've done a lot with even local high schools, you know. We tell our franchisees, go connect and, you know, you know, do stuff in the in the it with with the with the athletic group. Yeah, if you do it with the athletic group, you have to kind of offer it to the entire school, right? But it is definitely a way to to get younger people in early. Um, so there's all kinds of ways to to market.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

People thinking about being a franchise owner of the heights or doing something with it. What did what are the 90 days look like leading up to opening? Are you are you actively marketing for memberships before? Are you getting like ambassadors ready, influencers, or how are you like I'm not a marketing background person, I always say that. So I'm always curious, like, how how are you getting like that first year of revenue is insane. And so it must be that you're getting these memberships prior to opening.

Hiring, Training, And Cloud Nine Standards

SPEAKER_04 31:18

Yeah, you're exactly right. That's a great question. So we have a playbook for we start 120 days before the retreat is estimated to open. And we have a playbook for driving those members. So it's it's we have a we have a digital partner that we work with, a number of things, right? And so, and it's literally selling those programs over the phone. It's we have we have somebody that does that for us. So the franchisee doesn't need to do it. They can focus on, you know, the community relationships and doing pop-ups and things like that. So, and there's it's kind of it's a layered approach. It's not just that. There's there's several things that we do. So our goal is 300 before they even open. So you think about that at an average of about$150 in dues per membership, it's pretty significant, you know, on that first day. And you've already got customers baked in the day that you write and they're gonna start referring. So yeah, it's a really important element.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

That is so important because I I've looked into brick and mortar franchises and I immediately got turned off from them, mainly because by the time you open, you have paid so much for that location and you haven't made a dime. And it just was really frustrating to look at those numbers and understand how much I was about to spend on a lease before even opening my door. So, in in this model, you would have all that cash flow helping support that location before opening. I think that's brilliant. It's critical.

Balancing Hands-On And Touchless Profit

SPEAKER_04 32:45

It's critical. And, you know, it was really hard. We did it with massage heights as well, but it was harder. People really wanted to experience that hands-on with Heights Wellness. It's it's different. And so, and we're getting better and better. We've got a location that we're opening up in Raleigh, and we started that program last week. And within the first seven, 10 days, they had just under 40 memberships sold. Right. So, yeah, and so that we just started that program. They'll open in April, late April to early May. And so, yeah, I mean, we're just and we continue to refine it, right? And like I said, it's not just one thing that we're doing, it's a combination of things to get us there. But it's been really important to us, as you can imagine. So, you know, with with converting locations from massage heights to heights wellness retreat, super critical that those early adopters, those first franchisees perform very, very, very well. Um, and then with the brand new ones opening up, same thing, right? But those early adopter franchisees, they're ultimately the ones that are gonna create that excitement for the rest of the system, right? And so we have been hyper, hyper, hyper focused on making sure that those guys are doing really, really, really well. And, you know, it's what's been fun about this for me is it's not just, it's it's re-energizing everyone, like our corporate team, our franchisees, everybody's super pumped and excited about what we're doing. And that is awesome. Like a lot of people say, like, oh my gosh, that must have been really scary. How did your franchisees handle that? They loved it. I announced it at our at our conference in September of 2024 with my nerves. They were shot. I was like, oh my gosh, how are these guys gonna react? You know, but they they loved it. Were there questions and some concerns and clarifying things that they need? Absolutely. But, you know, we didn't force it either. We're like, this is what we're doing. We'd love for some of you to come on this journey. This is how we're gonna help, right? And it's been sort of a natural progression with people just getting excited about, you know, the results and what we're doing. So that's been that's been super, super energizing for everybody. Our franchise system is in the best like mental state it's ever been in the history of owning the brand. And that's that's awesome. Like that's what you want, you know. That's you want franchisees happy and thriving, and that's the most important thing.

Candid Advice For Aspiring Owners

SPEAKER_01 35:11

So well, and change can be scary, but change is necessary. You know, if there's one constant in life, it's it's change. And I think just staying static, you're not doing your franchisees a service. So I I think being a visionary on this and and seeing where the market is going, I mean, everyone's gonna win. And I just think it's so forward-thinking. And I it truly really fits. Again, because our our whole outlook on, as we were talking about earlier, on recovery and taking care of our bodies and longevity, it's so important. And so things like this, man, and you see the difference, you really do. I just think it's fabulous. You know, it's something you said earlier that I want to make sure our listeners really take in when you did undercover boss and all those people you had, did you say 3,500 people applied?

SPEAKER_04 35:58

Yeah, like the very first day. It's over time, right?

The Power Of People And Process

SPEAKER_01 36:04

So, yep. I mean, so everyone wants to talk revenue always. Everyone wants to talk about sales. Uh, but the thing that I think most people glaze over is how important hiring and and building the right team, you know, hiring slow, firing fast, but really building a good culture, getting the right team members in place. Um, if you can do those things right, if you can provide a great customer service, or when Jill and I had our Pinks franchise, when we knew we had the team that could go in and do any job, that's a powerful feeling. And uh for all of you listening, that's such a big piece. It's like, you know, looking back into our world when we were in home health care. And Jay, you know this. You know, you'd get a call, someone needs 24-7 care for their mom who has dementia. And if you don't have the caregiver to fill that case, you are going to be kicking yourself. So managing the employee piece is so important and it's not talked about enough in franchising, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Yeah. Look, I mean, there's not too many businesses that don't require people, right? I mean, you I think the most important skill set that a business owner can have is literally like loving people. That's not even a skill set. It's just like something that you have to you have to appreciate people, right? I mean, in order to get the results that you want, in order to get people to want to work with you and stay with you and refer their friends and all those things, you you have to love on people. And if you don't like people, I mean, business is probably not for you. Like there's a lot of businesses that don't require people. So yeah, and then you know, that yeah, the culture is so important. And you know, you can feel it. You can feel it. You walk into a business that has a really great culture versus one that doesn't, it is so evident, right? And you can directly correlate numbers to that feeling, you know?

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yep. You're so right.

Closing And Where To Learn More

SPEAKER_04 38:01

You always can. I mean, I've walked into locations, I'm just like, oh, no wonder that store is not performing very well, you know?

SPEAKER_01 38:09

It's why we tell our clients, and sorry, Jay, I'll make this quick point and turn it over to you. When we have our clients do validation calls, we mandate it. We say you've got to do at least five calls, and you need to talk to a high performer, low performer, media performer. And when you talk to that low performer, you are going to hear why. And likely it is not the franchise or's fault, it is, it is that particular franchisee. I mean, I saw I've I've been there at countless franchise conventions where the top performers are up front in the first row, and the bottom performers, and again, I'm generalizing, I'm sure I could be wrong in some instances, but but the the folks who are holding up the bottom of the pack are more in the back, and and their questions are around problems, and the top performers, their questions are around how can we go next level? How can we, how can we take this and do this even better? And so I I just think in franchise ownership, just attitude is everything, and and and you know, finding those franchisees that are a good fit. That's why it's so important for you on your side, for us on our side, and for all of you listening who are thinking about owning a franchise, to find that franchise where you're gonna be a good fit. Where we're you know, you again, we're doing it right, we're putting you in the right place to succeed.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yeah, absolutely. Just following up on uh Jack's point about hiring, he touched the nerve there because you know, in the service industry like that you're in and then that we've been in, your your product is your worker or employee that's in front of the the customer. So training is a huge component and part of that. So I'm curious, like for your uh your therapists, what type of training goes into that? And is that something that is on the front? Do the franchisees need to hire people that are already kind of like highly experienced, or does a lot of the training come from from you know you guys as support, or what is that like?

SPEAKER_04 40:02

A good good question. The beauty of the model is that you know, we are hiring professionals, right? We're hiring professional massage therapists and aestheticians. So they already know how to do their their their trade, their practice, right? They they understand it. What we train them on is the heights way, you know. So how you know, how do we greet, how do we go through understanding what their goals and needs are? Um, how how do we deliver our cloud nine experience, right? So we've got a service guarantee. It's called the cloud nine. You need to feel like you're on cloud nine when you leave. You know, those are the things that we're teaching them how to do. And we do provide additional curriculum for credits and things like that for them to, you know, continue to improve. We'll bring them all together and have a trainer come in or what have you, the franchisees will. But yeah, so we we do a train the trainer with the franchisees and their leadership team when they're going through our our training, and they then train their teams on the heights way. And then when we're in the field for a pre-opening and the opening week, we're of course helping to monitor that and you know, correct things where it needs to be uh corrected or give provide more more training insight there. So yeah, that's they're they're professionals, they know how to do it. And so that's the that's the great thing about the model is you're you're literally hiring people that you know have a passion for it. They invested in themselves to get the education, right? And so you're not just getting anybody. But the the this the awesome thing again about the model is that we're not only reliant on human resources at this point, right? And we've created an environment that people really love to work in. And and it's it's really changing the game for us as it relates to recruiting and hiring massage therapists and aestheticians as part of our hybrid model, because it is still part of it. What we're seeing though is we're seeing a lot of the balance in hands-on therapy versus touchless is it's a lot of the touchless modalities, right? It's a lot there. So our goal is to try to continue to make sure that the hands-on therapy is still a very, very much part of our model because again, that's where the feeling and the loyalty and all that kind of come in with with the guests, right? Is those experiences. So, but you know, it's it's exciting to see because the touchless modalities are obviously super profitable. Um, and that's just a great mix for the franchisees.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

It's wonderful. Shane, this has been so great. You've been so gracious with your time. And since we have you, I I'm trying to think about what I would want if I were listening to this. And I guess with all of your experience in this business and doing it at such a high level and have building such a respected brand, what advice would you have to to that person who's listening to this podcast who's thinking about business ownership? You know, if you could summarize it in a sentence or two, what what advice would you give?

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Well, I think I like you said, going through a process to identify the right space, number one, is really important, right? And then the brand should come later. But I think, look, a franchise agreement is a marriage. It's a marriage to a brand. And it's normally 10 years at least, right? And that is a long time in one's life to be part of something. And I think that you need to look for partners that you feel like you can trust that are gonna support you, they're gonna, they're gonna deliver on what they say they're going to do, that they've got infrastructure. Um, you know, often you see brands grow pretty fast and they don't have the infrastructure to really provide for that franchisee, right? And and with with heights, we we do 20 years of experience. We've got money, we're not, you know, fly by night, we're very stable, we've got a great leadership team, all those things. And I think you have to really buy into those people at some point, and you have to feel confident that they're really gonna deliver on what they say they're gonna deliver on. Um, so I'd be looking for, you know, once I figure out like what what what space do I want to be in and what brand, I think it is then it comes down to the people. Do you see yourself in a marriage with this group of executives and their team and so on and so forth?

SPEAKER_01 44:14

And you know, it's so interesting because there's so and I don't know if you guys have seen this, but certainly we have over the past two years. And I think it's finally starting to To cool off a little bit. But there has been this idea floated out there by a lot of gurus that the, you know, there's all these baby boomers out there retiring who can't wait to hand you their business and give it to you for nothing down. I don't know about you, but what I've seen is, and this is part of what makes franchising so great, especially if someone's investing in a system like yours, there is built-in exit and acquisition partners. And what I mean by that is let's say someone invests in the heights and they get in and they love it, right? This is, we've got it, we've got our team. Usually within a system, for whatever reason, there's always turnover. It doesn't mean that it's bad, but life happens, right? People's needs change, they need to move on. Usually in any franchise system, there are franchisees who need to sell their business for whatever reason. And those businesses do not go on biz by sell, they go to other franchise owners in the system. And the same is true of a franchisee who's buying into a system who may just determine, you know what, franchise ownership isn't right for me. That's usually going to go to another franchisee within the system. So the best thing is to start, and this is my opinion, and I welcome any of you guys to challenge it, but the best thing is to start with a new franchise, learn it from the ground up, build your team, start, and if then if you want to add other locations, it's the cleanest way to do it. I agree. Well, this has been a fabulous conversation. Shane, thank you for being so gracious with your time. Jay, Morgan, it's been great having you guys. Catherine, I think the the the cabo signal uh went out. She yeah, she has to go back to her 90-minute massage now. And you know, Jill's just recovering from a flu, so her cough was going crazy. So she had to go. But Shane, thank you so much. We really appreciate you. For all of you who'd like more information on the heights, you know what to do. Visit thefranchiseinsiders.com. Feel free to go to our team page, look up the backgrounds of any of our consultants, choose who you'd like to work with. We'd love to hear from you. Uh, and for this episode, I'm Jack Johnson. Thank you for joining the We Bought a Franchise podcast.