Pelicans Biggest Needs Revealed + NBA Draft Trade Rumors | Joe Dumars’ Next Move

The 2026 NBA Draft is almost here, and the New Orleans Pelicans have some major decisions to make.

Raphael Rattler and Garrick “G-Money” Rattler break down the Pelicans’ biggest roster needs, discuss whether Joe Dumars should trade into the first round, and highlight a few intriguing second-round prospects who could fit the team’s vision moving forward.

We also discuss what the New York Knicks’ championship run means for the rest of the NBA, why two-way players are more important than ever, and what teams like the Spurs and Victor Wembanyama can learn from the Knicks’ success.

🏀 Topics Covered:

• What the Knicks’ title run teaches the NBA
• How Victor Wembanyama and the Spurs should respond
• Why two-way players matter more than ever
• Brandon Demas named Laketown Squadron Head Coach
• God Shammgod named Pelicans Summer League Head Coach

Big Questions:

• Do the Pelicans need a floor-spacing center?
• Is there room for a traditional backup big?
• Can Jordan Hawkins become the movement shooter they need?
• Is Bryce McGowens developing into a 3-and-D wing?
• Who becomes the emergency third ball handler?

NBA DRAFT TALK

• Should the Pelicans trade into the first round?
• Why moving into the lottery likely doesn’t make sense
• Potential costs of acquiring a first-round pick
• Why late first-round and early second-round targets may be more realistic
• Second-round prospects to watch:

* Trevon Brazile (Arkansas)
* Bryce Hopkins (St. John’s)

👇 Let us know in the comments:

What is the Pelicans’ biggest roster need?
Should Joe Dumars trade into the first round?
Which prospect do you want New Orleans to target?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

What up, what up, what up? Welcome to another episode of New Orleans Dive Basketball. I am your host, Raphael Rattler, drawing my fellow little brother, Gary Monarch. What's popping with you, bro?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Happy June teeth. Happy June teeth, brother. Happy June teeth. Also, happy birthday to you, my brother. Another year around the sun, man. It's uh it's always a blessing to be able to celebrate them with you, bro. So happy birthday to you, man. But uh, yeah, man, everything's all good. The the finals are done, man. I learned uh I learned a lot from these finals. I can't wait to get into it. I I learned a lot from these finals, man. And I I learned that you know, this is like the first time in a couple of years. Obviously, we've been having different champions over and over, but like we talked about, it's been like for different reasons, right? Like you had can you stop yoking? So we gotta go get a whole bunch of big bodies. Then the Celtics win, right? And then it's like, okay, we gotta shoot a bunch of threes, and then the thunder and the the uh the the Knicks won. And the thunder and the Knicks have a lot in common as far as team buildup, they just did it in different ways, right? Uh obviously through the draft with with OKC and through trades and transactions with the Knicks, but they have that two-way center, they have a bunch of wing, uh not two-way center, but can play each way, right? Can can can be versatile offensively, uh, can play down in the post, can get out to the three-point line. Um, well, and you know, you're supposed to have that in in check. Um, but then you also have a bunch of like big wings, right? And then you have the head of the snake, which is the guard, right? And so I think this is the first time in a couple of years where you can say, Okay, I think there is a similarity of how teams as far as the makeup of the team goes. And I just I what a what a what a finals, bro. And you know, again, I talk you know, as we all know, big market, little market kind of beef and bias goes. Um, but I but man, New York acted like a they acted like a on in a small market underdog team, the way they circled their their team, and um, you know, obviously when they won and the the the parades and stuff. Um, it just was it was it's really exciting to see people from all different walks of life from as far as far as obviously you know as New York goes, uh just kind of all collapse on the state of New York and New York Knicks basketball. You just want that for the city of New Orleans to able to experience something like that because you just know this city doesn't even need a reason to party, but you give them a reason, and it is too. But um, speaking of the city, man, I got my I got my you are officially living in New Orleans. Uh checkup yesterday when I woke up to a tornado warning, uh a flash flood warning, uh, a heat advisory, uh, and all in the same day, just all in the same day, back to back to back to back to back. So uh things are going swimmingly in the city of New Orleans, in case you were wondering. But uh, outside of that, man, how's everything on your side?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Everything is blessed, uh, from my end. No other answer to your point. Another trip around. Uh, made it in and couldn't couldn't express the gratitude more than enough from that standpoint. But from your point about like the finals, first of all, shout out to Jose Alvarado, shout out to Josh Hart, former Pelicans, go win a championship, and like the crazy uh hold on, shell met on Mitchell Robinson, baby.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Shell met on the Packers starting him a uh a parade. I love that, I love that for them, man.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I look at it this way when Jose Alvarado and Josh Hart were on the roster, even then, like Jose spent the last couple of the first couple years of his career there, and Josh Hart spent a couple years uh in New Orleans, but like even then, it was very clear that these are players that help you win when it matters most. But it just so happened that the Pelicans didn't have all the pieces around it. It was like Josh Hart, you gotta start. Jose Alvarado, you gotta be a star playmaker, versus we need you to be you in order to help us win.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

To to great points that you that you bring it up uh when you talk about those because you look at what Jose was in this playoff since he got to the Knicks up until the championship run, you know, the Pelicans paid him like the plug-and-play energy player, but they used him like hey, bro, like you are the six-man pseudo starter some nights. He went to New York, was out of the rotation for a couple of games, right? But like he was the guy when the pet when the Knicks needed uh a jolt of energy, they they subbed him in and he did exactly he performed in his role as a superstar. And when you go to Josh Hart, you the same things, right? Josh Hart was asked to carry uh a tremendous weight as far as what he did with the Pelicans. And listen, if you don't believe what you just said about Josh Hart, ask Josh Hart because he just literally said on his podcast that if I'm the first, second, or third player, best player on your team, then you'll be looking for lottery balls. If on the fourth fifth, this is where I'm I'm good at it. And lo and behold, it it it rung true. So you know how I feel about self-awareness. I just want to give Josh Hart an applause for self-awareness, right? Then and yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

But you like you see those things, and like the world is shocked. And I know you know that we listen to the Who Collective and Tim Bonteps is like, Well, Jose Alvarado gets on the floor at the same time as Jalen Brunson, they've never done that before, and they save a had the biggest comeback in finals history. But like, if you're a Pelicans fan, you're watching is like that's just what Jose does, like he that's just who he is as a player, and so to see that come out, that really stood out to me. Like, I feel like from the Knicks' perspective, you you brought up a great point in that we've had a lot of different winners over the last couple years. I think that's good for the NBA. I just think that that's a good place for basketball where a lot every team feels like they're not that far away, right? Like, you you bring up the winning teams, what about the losing teams? Like, the paces are Tyrese Halliburton injury away from saying, Does OKC really have that first championship? And like the Spurs are four epic collapses away from saying, damn, Wimby won one already. So, like, teams aren't that far off. This ain't the this ain't the Jordan Bulls, this ain't the the Steph Warriors. Like, every year I think it's gonna take some luck, it's gonna take some matchup luck, it's gonna take some health, right? Um, from year to year. And I think that's a healthy place to be. Like, I look at this finals and I look at you know, the the LeBron James finals with the Heat, where not the finals where he went with the Cavs and got swept by the Spurba with the Heat, where like everyone's like, Well, is LeBron really that good because he shrunk in the moment? And like, I look at Wimby as a 22-year-old going to the finals, no one expected him to be there. You know, the the I'm not gonna say the stage look too big, but like some of the things that you go through, and again, this will lead into our Pelicans conversation. Some of the things that you have to go through, especially the losses, help you end up where you need to be in the long run. That's why young players don't win, that's why young teams don't win because you have to go through something to figure out how to get the best version yourself. And so I'm looking at it not only as okay, look at what the Knicks did from a chemistry perspective. Obviously, they got the whole Nova Knicks and all that stuff going on, but they really found a roster that fit versus like the the big three era where it's like everybody gets a superstar, stuff like that. You talk about okayc, they got a roster that fit and it built over time. I think that's gonna be the motion moving forward. But to your point, this is the NBA where like I just I think it's gonna struggle for specialist moving forward. Like, if you're only good on one side of the ball, I think contracts are gonna reflect it, I think teams are gonna reflect it. Like, you're just not gonna be as valuable if you're only because look at the playoffs and how quickly someone gets exposed for one side or the other. So that's what I take away from it. There's some other things too, and before we get too far into the show and we start talking about the Pelicans and how this relates, make sure you're followers on X, as on Twitter, as Inno Basketball No E. Make sure you're liking the episode below, make sure you subscribe to the channel. I just think that the landscape of the NBA is a really competitive one. I think a lot, there's a lot, especially with the new lottery rules and all that. There's a lot of teams that are like, if we are healthy, like if I'm the Timberwolves, I know that there's a lot of like mucking around, but like I'm really looking at that series where San Antonio said if Ann had more than one leg, like and and if it and if we didn't have our best shooter out, like do we do we get out that series? So, like, there's a lot of teams that probably feel that way right now and feel like now is the time to strike before there is like a true dynasty or whatever that may be. And I just think that's going to take place this free agency. I think that's gonna show itself in the draft, and I think the Pelicans are gonna be in the mix of that. Before we get to the Pelicans, shout out to your boy B, named the head coach of the Pelicans G League squadron. They have moved, they're no longer in Birmingham, it's the Lake Town Squadron now. He's been with the coaches that he's been the organization for a long time. Like, literally, one of the great stories of both being a homegrown product and just working your ass off to get to where you need to be without being 6'8 and having an NBA career or anything like that. So, shout out to him for that opportunity. I'm interested to see what he says. We see a lot of changes this past offseason with Joe Dumars in the front office, but you also see them rewarding like success and rewarding some, so like it can't all be one thing and it's getting out all the other, right? Like, so where you fall there, I also think it's interesting that guy Shamcon is the summer league coach. I think that'll be fun. I don't know who's gonna be on the Pelicans summer league roster, but I think that's the question. That is a super interesting thing, and so the dominant is starting to fall for the Pelicans. You mentioned how there's been a lot of changes, a lot of fluctuating in the top teams, uh, the past couple years and things like that. And so far, from Joe Duma and Troy Weaver, both with their moves as well as their words, have really started to articulate that we don't think the team is that far. You already checked the first box of the offseason was go find your coach that raises your floor. They did that with Jamal Mosley. Now it's to start to build around what you want to be as an organization, what this coach needs, and how you be successful. That so that leads us to next Tuesday, which is the NBA draft. Um, the Pelicans do not have a first round pick, but apparently they are itching and scratching and clawing and pushing to get to get into the first round after trading this pick for Derrick Queen. Here's my question to you before we get there. If you have a target, like it was very clear that Derrick Queen was a target of uh Joe Dumas and this organization way before the draft last season, probably it's before he became the vice president of operations for the Pelicans and things like that. So if you have a target again this next offseason, it's gotta be either uh a position of need or a skill set of need or a player altogether. And so, like, before we get to the draft and how they might potentially get back into the first, let's talk about like some of the needs of the roster just going in. Let's assume there's no huge shakeups, right? Obviously, there's probably gonna be one or two, maybe a couple, but let's assume there's no huge shakeups. We've talked at nauseam about the uniqueness of this roster, and how if you just take the the Pelicans off and take New Orleans off and just list names, a lot of teams would say, Yeah, that's someone that could be in my rotation, that's someone I can be in rotation, and then like the conversation comes, well, why did they have a putrid record all season long in the NBA and couldn't get couldn't get in any ways if most of those guys were healthy? Well, then it becomes well, the fit wasn't quite there, the coaching wasn't quite there, the scheme wasn't quite there. So I'm just gonna take a book, uh a page out of the book of the Knicks, you know, OKC, the Pacers, the Spurs, the teams that have all built themselves differently to start competing at today's NBA. So I look at hub fours because what have we talked about? You need multiple options who can be your hub at any given time. Like, look in the playoffs, Carl Anthony Towns hadn't been maximized all season long, and then like at the beginning of the playoffs, they were like, Wait, cat, you are really good. Let's start playing through you some and breaking it off with Jalen Brunson and things like that. And so, like, they had full hubs, different ways to beat different teams, and that's why they were so successful on their historic run. I look at that, I see Zion again. Say what you want about Zion, whether he's tapped out, whether you think that there's a huge ceiling, like Jamal Mosley has alliterated that he hasn't touched yet, whether you think that there's somewhere in between. I think everyone can agree that if you give Zion the ball and you can you can build a healthy offense around that to some degree. I feel the same way about Derrick Queen. We've talked about this, we've always viewed him as a four. Going into the draft, we looked at him as a four. Watching him for a season, I look at him as a four. Going into next season, I still think he is a four. So I look at those two players. Then I look at league guards. Say what you want about DeJounte Murray. He came back early from a very central serious injury. He looked just as good as Jason Tatum looked and his return from a just as serious injury. Where are your thought processes here? Obviously, you've got the two two hub. Give me your thoughts on that, but then you got a DeJounte Murray and you got a uh itching uh sophomore coming up with Jeremiah Fierce looking to push him from the do you think the Pelicans are set in their guard rotation?

SPEAKER_01 14:30

I think for for now, uh, I think the Pelicans are are are good in their in their guard rotation. Now, I say that with a caveat saying that you know, breaking news, NBA team needs more shooting. All right, so that's I that's a easy, lazy thing that everybody can say about their team, you know, they need more shooting. The Pelicans need more shooting from the guard position. I think you know, Jordan Hawkins was supposed to bring some of that. Um, obviously that has not worked out well. Um, but I do think they need shooting from their guarding position. Set that aside. I think when you talk about DeJounte as the starting guard, and you and you talk about Jeremiah Fears, um, I think both of those guys bring two totally different skill sets um and two totally different ways to attack the game. Um, but I do think that they both have the mentality to like be the guards for this team, um, you know, be the lead guards for this team, especially when you add on the fact that Zion's gonna be doing some ball, uh some lead ball handling duties. And we just talked about we just watched the season of Zion not being on the ball, and it just never felt right, right? And so the I mean, to the only way to remedy that is to give him the ball, right? And so you have guys who can play both off the ball with DeJounte and Jeremiah Fears, and then play on the ball, um, especially DeJounte, who when he came back, the the Pelicans just felt different, they competed different. Um, they they felt more physical. Everybody remembers that Toronto game. Um, you know, the obviously the loud statement that DeJounte made that game. Um, but they just felt more confident, and you felt like there was an adult in a room as far as who had the ball in in their hands, and so Jeremiah Fears, you you've already seen his you know upward trajectory throughout the entire season, and now he's put the the pelicans are posting on Instagram just like he didn't ate Popeye spinach and he's in a weight room. So I I think you know that's a guy that's not going to it. It is very it's not super similar, but it's not super unlike the way we just watched Dylan Harper and Dearon Fox kind of be like, okay, like yeah, that guy kind of is ready to play. And I, you know, obviously, I think you know, Jeremiah Fairs and DeJounte are good, and that's not even a question, but I do think at some point Jeremiah Fair is gonna be like, Hey man, like I know you win and drafted Derek Queen and traded a pick to get him, but I'm a lottery pick too, and I've done nothing to show you to to have me take less of a role. I've only shown you more. I need to have more of a role, and so that helped that kind of healthy competition brings out the best in guys. Um, and so I think you know, just to tie that whole section up, I think your those hub fours and the lead guards are are kind of intertwined because both of those lead, those those hub fours are so unique when you talk about Zion, you talk about Derrick Queen and the way they play and the way they process and the way um they can make passes, especially Derek Queen and his audaciousness with his passing. Um, you know, I think that kind of helps alleviate some of that that that ball handling duty, which you talked about with the Knicks as far as what they were running into against the Hawks in those first couple of games was Jalen Brunson dribbling the ball, the the air out the ball, and you know, Atlanta kind of circulating with all those wing defenders on that. It wasn't until they allowed you know uh cat to to kind of handle the bar at the high post and and and down low in the low post and attack and have Jalen Brunson play some of that off ball. I think that's what you can see a lot of with Derek Queen and Zion as well. When you talk about DeJounte and Jeremiah Fears, and so I think the guard position, obviously, if they they need to add, you know, I her is do you consider Herb a guard? What is Sadiq Bey? Do you consider him a guard? Like, so like those wing because DeJounte and Herb are not very unsimilar, but DeJounte is a point as far as size-wise, but DeJounte is a point guard, and Herb's so like this DeJounte a wing, so like you have a bunch of like guys who can fit up and down that one, two, three, and in Zion and Derrick Queen's case, that four area where you can play those guys interchangeably there, and so that ball handling duty is gonna be gonna be spread out to a lot of other people, and Jamal Mosley has is a guy who is coached that fresh off of coaching that um dealing with Franz and Paulo when you have guys like Jalen Suggs and Anthony Black who also need the ball, and so it's gonna be interesting to see how they fit that together. But I like the guard positions, I I like jerk, I like Jeremiah Fears, and I really like what DeJountier showed coming off of his injury. I think uh offseason together because I think when you talk about the Pelicans last season, we're wrong. I think is if if you said that the Pelicans like the Rockets were missing their starting point guard, and they had Kevin Durant, they had Alfred Shagun, they had Amen Thompson, they had all of these name Tyree East, all of these names, and they couldn't get out of their way when it came come to offense because they didn't have Fred Van Vliet that's starting point guard, right? I think the Pelicans didn't have a starting point guard for a lot of last season. Um, and so I I think it just it it having an offseason and coming in healthy with with Jeremiah Fears and DeJounte, I think that in and of itself is an improvement um for that backcourt and should play uh uh better when you have both of those guys available and another year of you know of Jeremiah Fears learning the game and putting in the work to change his body.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Right, I would I agree with that. The way I would differ is I think DeJounte and Jeremiah Fears' skill set are more similar than you think. They both would prefer to go downhill and attack the rim as shorter guards, right? From that perspective, and and settle for the settle, they would rather shoot after they drive, and they're both high intensity, high pushers of the ball, things like that. And I think that was intentional, you know. But from how Jewel Dumas wants to play, and probably how Jamal Mosey wants to play as well. You bring up the shooting piece, that's where everyone's gonna point to, especially when it comes to Pelicans, because every year we're talking about them being in the bottom third of three points attempted, bottom third of three points mates, and things like that. But here's where, like, I don't say I push back on the idea of just add shooting, just find someone who can shoot. Look at the finals. If you look at the Spurs, how many of their starting six, seven, would you say is a shooter? Devin Vassell, yeah. How do they champion and then like De'Aaron Fox is not a shooter, right? Dylan Harper's not a shooter, Vic Victor became a shooter. I don't know why, but he's not a shooter, and then flip it on the other side and look at the Knicks. Okay, Kat's a shooter, Jalen Brunson's a scorer to me more than he is, like a shooter per se. And then they they they dust they dust off um um Landry Shambett. I don't know. All of a sudden he is JJ Reddick, right? Because like Josh Hart, McCalm, Bridget, OG, they can shoot, but they're not shooter. And so, like I look at the roster internally, and you look at okay, how do the Pelicans go from bottom third to like half or the midway part? Because they will never be a they will never be the Celtics, they will never be the Warriors, they will never be that team because that's not how the team is built. But you need to be able to hit three. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

No, so look, I I agree with you when you talk about like the the Spurs and the Knicks, you know, don't have the the dearth of shooters that you that you see a lot of other teams have. Um, but I will say that this as far as shooting-wise and what you can bring from those two teams for the Pelicans, what we talked about last season was that the reason OKC won obviously Shea was great, obviously, you know, Chet played a big role, Jalen Williams. One of the huge reasons they won is because their defensive stal work, Lou Dort, shot 40 from the three-point line and was able to stay on the floor. What did we see in this this series? He was not Devin Vassell and Julian Champagne were the defenders, they both had to knock down shots. OG Ananobi, he didn't miss a shot, being basically the whole final the whole playoffs, the whole playoffs, and so what I take from that is that Herb Jones needs to get into the into the into the the shooting, you know, into the Fred Vincent re bring up the alumni chapter or something for Fred Vincent. Because if he's gonna be the defensive stalwart, and we've talked about this, like you know, if he's gonna start, continue to start, and you know, this deep bay conundrum and question that we talked about, we talk about shooting, because you are gonna have a team that has at some point gonna feature Zion and Derek Queen and Jeremiah Fisher, you're gonna need guys to be able to be outlets other than Trey Murphy. And if Herb is gonna be the defender, the guy that needs to be out there defending, making the bet uh the other team's best player, you know, beat putting through hell, he needs to be able to knock down threes because Lou Dort wasn't able to knock down threes against the Spurs, and he was played off the floor basically, and that is a guy who made first who made the all-defensive team this season, and so he needs to be able to knock down the threes. When you talk about shooting, that is one of the guys who who can help this team as far as shooting, because again, teams are going to leave him wide open, and if he's un not uh able to make them pay consistently, night in and night out, then that's gonna run, that's gonna be an issue as far as the offense goes, as far as personnel goes, and probably as far as like chemistry goes, because you're gonna have to start pulling guys and and taking it. The Spurs while just were in the finals, and D'Aaron five uh uh uh Dylan Harper is already leaking out to the media that I want to have a bigger role next season. So, like those kind of things happen to players, and so if if Herb is not able to consistently knock down that three ball, then that's gonna run into okay, well, should Sadiq be playing more? And if he's not gonna be playing playing a lot and he's not gonna be guarding the best player because he's not able to knock down a three, then what is the and then a lot of other questions? A lot of questions are answered and are not even asked if Herb Jones can get back to what we saw two seasons ago where he was almost automatic in those corners.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

I think the most glaring thing, and you're absolutely right. I think the most glaring thing that stands out is Herb Jones, but like, in order from the Pelicans to get from bottom third to like middle of the back, it's really not that many threes, like they if it's really about like five to eight more threes made and attempted per game, and like, yes, some of those need now. The volume of threes from Herb Jones needs to be inspected going into next season, the quality and the shot making behind that. I agree with you 100%. But see, that's the but but but to that point, but like that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

If you start in five and they tip the ball off, and LeBron goes stands in front of Zion and leaves Herb in the corner, he's gonna have to shoot the ball. That's it's I it's it's it's it's a hand-to-hand thing because they're not the threes are not gonna come down until somebody is guarding him, and the only way to guard him is to knock down some threes and make the defense respectful.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Well, I agree. There's no just like we opened the pot, there's no way moving forward. I think you can get into high-intensity basketball only playing one side of the floor. I just don't think that's something that you're able to do anymore in today's NBA, but not just putting it on herb, like we've talked about before. I think Zion needs to give you one or two again. I think Derrick Queen needs to give you one. Some of the guys that are gonna have, we just talked about these hubs, some of these guys that are gonna have the ball in their hands, and then when some of these other guys are also on the court, not have the ball in their hands, have to be able and willing to shoot the three as well. And so I think it's it's a collaboration of almost everybody on the roster in terms of what they do. Now, you talk about shooting, it can't all just be Sadiq Bey and hopefully and Trey Murphy as well. It can't just be that's the only way we feel confident the three is going in, is if one of those two shoot it, it's gotta be better all around. You talk about um the lead guards and the ability there again. Like, I'm not giving up on like a Bryce McGowns because like I really liked his fits with this team just because he's able, he's very self-aware, but he's able to do the things you need him to do when he's not a main player, and then also when the ball is in his hands.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

He reminds me a lot of Julian Champigne of the Julian Champigne role that he just had with this first team, where he was waived by the Philadelphia 76ers and ended up starting on a championship, you know, capable team, just knocking down threes, playing smart defense, uh, and just being a uh a tough glue guy, keeping things together. I agree with you about Bryce, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

And so then I look at the the remainder of the I would say not core, but the the rotation. I look at the wing defenders. We talk about Herb Jones. Can Michael P get consistent? Like I'm talking league average at the three-point line. It's the same thing as Hurt, it's the same conundrum you put him in. You look at the finals, you look at the playoffs. They every team that made it anywhere had wing defenders that could throw at your best player over and over and make it difficult. Even Jalen Brunson until the 40-ball game to close him out. He had a very tough series because the Spurs were throwing body after body after body and different body type defenders. And I think the Pelicans have a lot of that, but to your point, do you trust them on the offensive end of the floor? It's the same thing, I think, when it comes down to their athletic bigs. Look, we talk about how did you how did the league have to adjust to Jokic? We had to get bigger bodies to be able to load up and to put Jokic in tough positions or at least make other people beat us. Now you got Victor Wamanyaba coming into the league. Now you got all these people that are seven foot tall, but they can dribble and can shoot chet, all these other guys. You need athletic bigs too. And like I look at Eve's Messi and I look at Carlo Makovich, and you really like what they put on film, even though Eve's numbers dropped from his rookie year. As you saw the years went on, there were a lot of things that point out like that is what you need to see from a young big. But here's the part where I think the biggest question comes into play. Okay, Victor Romanba went up against bigger body guys and struggled a lot. That's the same type of issues that Eve Misi faced in a different capacity because you weren't throwing the ball to Eves on the post and saying, Go give me a bucket, or throwing the ball to Eve at the three-point line and saying, shoot that big e like you weren't you weren't doing those things. But in the in different facets, you saw Eve struggle to box out, you saw him struggle versus bigger body guys, and so it begs the question: do the Pelicans need to go invest in a in a true traditional center? I look at it from two phases. I think anyone on the roster, we talked about the league guards, we talked about the wings. What we're not talking about is the big section. Like you were playing Caban Looney, you were playing Ease Messi, you were playing, you were playing anyone off the bench. I won't say any names, but he is not on the team and he didn't play very many games afterwards that he was in the he was on the squadron for a lot of the season to start the year, right? And so that is telling you you don't have the depth that you need in terms of the big bodies. I look at this NBA and the roster that's constructed, like you need some guys that are six foot nine, six foot who can also shoot the ball, right? Carlo shot 40% on a very low volume and things like that. But it can't just be Carlo, he can't be the only person you put out there that can rim protect a little bit, but uh can also shoot. I do think a big body is needed, but you look as you look at what teams are about to face. The Spurs just went to the finals, no one expected to see the finals, and now they're staring De'Aaron Fox in the face with 50 million dollars, and they're like, Well, we got Dylan Harper right here, but who's gonna take this 50 million? And the rest of the NBA is looking at the Spurs like, yeah, who's gonna take that 50 million? Like, they ran into a conundrum real quick. So going to free agency, going to the trademark, and saying, Yeah, we're the Pelicans, we struggled at rebounding. Let's go pay 35 million, let's go pay 40 million for a center who we're not looking to play through. Like, we just talked about all the guys who need the ball. For a center, we need to eat minutes, be an EDZ eater. Look at what Mitch Robinson did in the in the finals. His stat sheet is not gonna blow anyone off, but if you watch the finals and watch his impact, tremendous, right? What is that worth? Right? That not 30 million dollars. The Knicks just won a finals. I can guarantee you they're not about to walk up to Mitch Robinson and say, hey, look, bruh, here's 25, here's third. Like, that's that's not gonna happen. And so if you want to go find another big body, I think DeAndre Jordan is probably a good vet to have at the end of the bitch, but you don't want him playing minutes like he did in this year. So you go find another big body to supplement some of the taller, lanky guys you have on the roster, but what is that worth? Which begs to question the trade into the first round, right? So the only way the Pelicans are making moves in these next uh five days, five, four days before the draft hits is if they're moving Trey Murphy because they're not gonna move Zion, they've already talked about that. I'm not sure there's another player that yields you a lottery pick in this draft. Maybe, like, if you trade multiple picks in the future to come back into this draft, maybe no, there's no other, but but there's no other player on the roster that someone's gonna be like, Yeah, you can have pick nine for that person if it's not Zion or Trey. So if we just talked about some of the biggest holes on the team and we're talking about just the improved shooting throughout and having more viable shooters, but also having bigger, more versatile big men that can both you know pound in the paint for the biggest guy, but also spread the floor to some degree. The toughest position in basketball to adopt right away in the NBA is big. So if you are trading into the first round, this comes to our question: does that make a whole lot of sense? For a team that has just signed a coach who walked away for a cup of coffee from the Orlando Magic and decided he wanted to jump right back on with the with the New Orleans Pelicans very short after. Doesn't sound like a rebuilding situation to me. Sounds like someone who thinks he can win relatively quickly. Does trading someone who you clearly see the fit for for a 21-year-old, 19-year-old, 20-year-old center who's probably gonna take some time to figure it out to some degree make a whole lot of sense? No, okay. If it's not a center, what would you be looking at in the top 13 picks that you say very similar to what Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver said last year about Jeremiah Fierce and Derrick Queen? Those were 19-year-old kids who contributed to winning right away, and we knew we could do find that or we knew we could use that in the season. Where is the 19-year-old kid that is gonna either start at center or start? What are your thoughts on the the idea of the pelicans trading into the first round?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

I don't get it. I don't I don't understand it. I don't understand what the what's the the plan around that. So here's here's my reasoning behind it. So if you are the Pelicans and you just hired Joe Dumas, Troy Weaver, Jamal Mosley, right? And you're missing you're miss Gail Benson, and you have gotten in front of all of these men and got in front of all of the the city and said, you know, we're ready to to build a team now, all right? And then Joe Dumas gets in front and say, Hey, we're not trading Zion Williamson, which means you are looking to compete. You are looking to you Zion. We're past the Zion is rebuilding and was young, and we can got time. Zion needs to win now, like that's a player who needs to do something with his career now. I don't you you just said you wanted to have Jeremiah Fares and Derrick Queen because they contributed to winning. Newsflashy didn't win anything, they did not contribute to winning at all, and so I don't understand how you can say out of on one side that you're keeping Zion, and Sadiq is the kind of guy that you want on this team, and DeJounte is the guy that you wanna you want to see a whole season. All the stuff you said at the end of season, presser, um, and and all of those things, and then turn around and say, You know how we're gonna compete with Zion and Sadiq and Herb, we're gonna trade the most malleable player on the team, the best shooter on the team, for somebody who's 19 years old. When last season, when you wanted to go get Derek Queen, you didn't trade a player, you just traded a future pick. And so I I just don't unlike if you're gonna trade Trey. I've I said this in the last podcast. When I say that those three guys are connected and and and should be you know connected together, talking about Zion, Trey, and Herb. I don't mean that as like they all need to stay on the team. What I mean is if you're gonna get and really it's Zion and Trey, because I think Herb's you you're able to get a little bit of Herb's productivity from Sadiq Bey and all of those guys, but you're not getting Zion's productivity from anybody on the team, you know, as the number one option. We've seen Trey as the number one option, and you're not getting anything from Trey. Anybody's giving you what Trey is giving you in the in like on this roster right now, and so I just think if you're gonna trade Trey Murphy, I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying if that's what you want to do to go get someone, then that's fine. But like this, that is no longer the Zion-led team. That at that point, it needs to be the Jeremiah Fears, Derek Queen, whoever this player is team, and you need to see what you can get for Zion because I just don't understand how you can tell Zion and Sadiq and all those guys, you know how we're gonna compete, we're gonna compete with a uh a Derek Queen who has yet to show us he can play center, we're gonna go draft a 19-year-old center. We got this baby point guard uh uh here who's gonna be ready to take you, you turn to 20 next year. Like, I that just doesn't seem like a direction to me. Whereas if you have Trey Murphy, like unless unless you're trading Trey Murphy for Jalen Brown, who's gonna come here and and plug right into his production, there's no way in the world you you are the same level team as if you trade Trey Murphy for somebody who is 19-20 years old, then if you have Trey Murphy now. And so my thing is if you're if you are this gung ho or if they or if you are really this serious about going in and getting someone, yeah, then that's that's fine, but like don't don't sell at as like you're trying to be competitive next year because you won't be. You you you won't be you the wimby's not on your team. Wimby was the outlier. The Spurs are the outlier. You are restarting the clock if you trade Trey Murphy for an 18, 19, 20 year old, whoever he is, right? And so I it just doesn't make any sense to me to to try to walk the line of oh, we're gonna still be competitive next year, but we're gonna trade this our second best player for a rookie who we've yet to see do anything. I just don't think that that's something. Um, you know, that that's something that that that makes very much sense. So I don't really understand it. I I think that you have a better chance of being a competitive team next year with Trey Murphy on your team rather than you know Nate Mint or any whoever any of those guys are. Um, but if you're gonna do it, then go ahead and and and don't, you know, don't have Stephen. Go ahead and if you want to trade Trey and do it, go ahead and do it. But like also trade Zion, look to see what's going on with DeJounte, look to see what's going on with all of those earlier vets because at that point, that team is no longer built to compete around Zion, it's built to have those three four guys, whoever you get as young players, as those guys now taking over the realm, and and that's just my opinion in that in essence.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

You just hit it on the head, it's not just Trey, and everyone's gonna say, Okay, well, if you trade Trey, you got Trey Zion and stuff like that. Why would Sadiq Bey, after you just got in front of Mike and said he is the example of what you want as a pelican in a uniform, why would he extend if, to your point, the best players on the team are now 21, 20? I guess ease is 21. Everybody, it's not just Zion and Trey, it's everybody else. The jante would have to go like literally everyone else on the roster who's above the age of like 26 would probably need to go to in some some facet. So that domino has a huge impact over that, and I still come, I still come back to Jamal Mosley. If I'm Jamal Mosley, I am not running to the Pelicans organization with no history of success saying, Yeah, sign me up for a rebuild. I just why would he do that? He could have took the draw. I don't I don't I don't think Joe Du More and Dra Wheeler signed up for that. I don't think they signed up for that. Exactly, exactly. So like I look at that, and to your point, like Trey is probably the biggest chip that you have to get in the first round, unless you are using future first round picks to get in. And after last season, I hope it's not that just because I don't want to listen to that. But at the same time, at the same time, I don't know what the hell the lottery is gonna look like moving forward. I have no idea what what is all gonna shake out to be. But if I know there's a guy I want in this draft and it's not gonna cost me an arm and leg to get him, what did the Rams say? F them picks, right? When they win trade trade, like like if that's how you feel, like you went two for two with Jeremiah Fears and Derrick Queen so far. Like, it looks like you went two for two there. So if you feel like you got a guy and you want to use picks to get there, I could understand. I still don't know if it's wise, but I could understand that line of reasoning. But I think what's more likely and what makes more sense, at least to me, is if you were to try to trade into the late first round, right? Like, if there's a guy you don't feel like is gonna be there at the second round pick because you're even your second round pick is late, right? Because it's not yours. Like if there's a guy the late first that you might think might not cost you a whole lot, you know, in future capital, or maybe you could swing some of these salary filler things that you have on your roster to make that move. Because you know, uh OKC has multiple more draft picks than they're allowed to have salary cap on their roster, so they're probably not taking both of their draft. Like, if there's a bunch of teams like that at the end of the first that you want to make a call on and see what's it gonna take, that makes a lot more sense to me because typically those players are a little bit older, right? And typically they're 23, 24, and more ready to contribute to winning than a 19-year-old, 20-year-old, or whatever that may be. And so that makes a whole lot of sense to me. It is draft season, it is NBA off season, it is rumor season, it's saucer season, it's all it's all that right now, and that it's intended to be that because the NBA is an entertainment drama show, that's just what it is. Uh, it is for all fans, and so it's meant to be that, but like when I just break it down from a logical standpoint, it makes sense if they find someone they like that's available late in the first, but like getting into the lottery for what it's gonna cost you, like I I I struggle to see the vision yet there, so it would just be interesting to see how the team is kind of looking at the given the we just talked about some of the the holes and and some of the issues on the roster. I just don't know how that's addressed in the lottery this season. I that that player doesn't stick out to me. Um, as far as yeah, that's the guy that's gonna fish your fix your issues there.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

And I real real quick, and I just think that like you could find a much wetter way to upgrade the roster using 30 million dollars of salary of Jordan Pooh, uh, you know, than you know, trading Trey Murphy and trying to upgrade the roster. I just that just that that seems like taking five steps back to potentially take two steps forward, uh, maybe like three, four years from now. So I I it just doesn't make sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Right. So let's say. You know, let's play devil's advocate here. Let's say the Pelicans do not get into the first round early first round lottery. Let's say they stand packed. I don't know if they'll stand packed, but let's say they do. What are some names that you're thinking? The second round is a crapshoot because people do all kinds of things just to move money around. And the second round, I feel bad for those guys. A lot of those people would rather be like undrafted free agents because then they can control their own destiny and stuff like that. But tell me a name that people may or may not be thinking about that if the pelicans stand back and you're like, you know what, we cool. We're gonna wait to free agency, we're gonna wait to trade season, then we'll get it popping. Tell me a name that pops out for you. So so you saying if they if they do trade it to the first half, they stay where they are. Let's say they trade they trade no higher than like 25. Okay, and or they don't trade at all. That that's kind of the realm that they they stay in, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Cause I I had a guy for if they don't, if they don't, because I I got a sleeper that I want to talk about. Okay, okay. So I'm gonna tell you about my sleeper, okay. So I got a Pad Dutch, shout out to Keith, uh with the St. John's uh up up north, all right. And so you know, guy he puts a lot of Saint John's on my timeline, um you know, throughout the season, a lot of Saint Johns be on my timeline, and I respect it. You know, I respect that I go hard about my cages, go hard about the big red. You know, big red, they they got they got a coach up there, okay. Rick Patino been up there doing some work. There's a guy on their team named Bryce Hopkins. Okay, there's a guy on their team, Bryce Hopkins. He last year he he was he's coming off of a torn ACL. I understand injury problems, I get it. Whatever, I understand. He came back and he's played a full season now, okay. So he's uh he's 24 years old, all right. So he's an older guy, he's a senior, and he is, I think I I've read he's six, six, six, two twenty, but he shot 40 from the three-point line, and he got to the he got to the free throw line in uh insane amount of time. He's a big physical guy. Um, and I think that you know, outside of the guy that I'm I want you to talk about, because that's your guy that you found, and I I I really like the guy that you're gonna speak about. I think that that that Bryce Thompson is the kind of guy that can come in um older, ready to compete. Um, you you we just watched the the Knicks have uh Mikhail Bridges, have OG Ananobi, have Josh Hart, just have a whole bunch of just guys, wing guys, hard playing, hard body guys, um, you know, to throw out, to play defense, uh, to to shoot, to do a lot of two-way things. And I think this guy, you know, again, senior out of out of St. John, he's 24 years old, he's an older guy. I think if he's around at the time to pick the the Pelicans RVL, again, he's older and he's coming off of an injury. So I think that is the kind of thing that make you make you slide. Uh, but I've I watched some some film on him, I've looked at his numbers. He gave Duke a hell of a game uh in their in their in their tournament game. They lost that game, but he had like 17 points, he had like four threes in that game. Um, and so he really played well against some of the best talent um that was out there. Duke is gonna have a a couple of guys that go to the to the draft as well. So I think you know, if you if you're looking for a guy where the pelican, if the pelicans stay put around in that 50 area, um, I think that's a guy that you could you could go pay attention and and look at the the you know the tape, look at his stats, and look at some the way he gets to the free throw line, his downhill ability, he's able to knock down the three. Um, I just think that he's older, he's coming off that injury, but he played all the games last season for for St. John's. He played well, he played hard, he played 40, 39, 30, 40 minutes a game. So that's not a problem for him um at all. And so I I think that he's a guy that the Pelicans can look at and see some of the things that that they could use to to plug in some of those things that you like from Sadiq Bey and Bryce McGowan, just and Micah PV, just hey, get out there. And if I need you to shoot corner threes, shoot corner threes. If I need you to pick him up full court, pick him up full court. And I think that Bryce Thompson is the kind of out of St. John's is the kind of guy that could do that, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:24

And like again, I look at the makeup and and of what they've drafted in the past, and both of what they've said so far from Roy Troy Weaver and Joe Dumas, they are looking for those kind of guys. Like, if you could find another Sadiq Bay this offseason, I think that would be I don't think the Pelicans are on the hunt for the next superstar. I think they they believe in Zion and they believe in Jeremiah Fears and DRQ. It's the pieces around the edges that I think that they're in suit of, and I think that would be a great fit, just another wing who is both self-aware in their role in terms of what they can bring right out of the gates and how they can play off the players already on the roster. Everybody already knows my answer to this question if you follow. Talk to us guys Brazil from Arkansas, older guy, you know, multiple years at uh at uh Arkansas. Some may say he underproduced and things like that. Listen, when I watch this, when I watch this guy, literally, it reminds me so much of like Carlo Makovich. Like, you'd be like, Well, well, why isn't he on the court sometimes? And then when he's on the court, it's like, oh my god, like consistently playing above the rim, getting rebounded, he's not the biggest guy, so he would fall into that same camp as Carlo and Ease, where they're like in the body of a four, but they have like the athleticism to rim protect and to play above the rim and things like that. I don't mind having another one of those guys and adding, you know, a big body guy. I think the more bigger bodies you can add to this Pelicans roster, the better. You're gonna that's gonna be the theme of my offseason in terms of the moves that the Pelicans just add bigger bodies to the team. I think this guy can both spray face the floor, he can both rim protect, he can be a lob threat. So if ever Carlos down, Eve's down, whoever is down, you have another guy that can give you just a different element and you don't lack anything on the athleticism front. And so this is a guy who you and I talked about this. I won't live it down. I know they lost this year. Jay Will from Arkansas again went to OKC when he was coming out of the draft. I had a very similar feeling about him. I'm like, he's never gonna be an all-star. I don't know his ceiling in the NBA, but that kid can play basketball, like that guy just knows the game and understands the game, and he damn near kept OKC alive in a lot of these games in the final where nobody else can hit a shot. It's the center in the second round that is playing. The first person to get their contract last offseason was him. I get the same type of inklings when it comes to Travon. I just feel like that's a kind of guy in today's NBA where you got all these monsters walking around dribbling and shooting and doing all this stuff from the half court line. Like, I think you need bigger wigs that can move their feet, that can still give you something in terms of rim protection at the rim and can shoot the ball right out of the gates. And so I think that's a seamless fit. I don't know if he's available, I know he's older, and so it's gonna cause him to slide. I don't expect him to go in the first round. But if there's a way the Pelicans can find a way to acquire Trevor Brazil for Barclays, I'll bring that, bring that over here.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Yeah, unfortunately, I think he's gonna be gone by the time this pick. I think he's gonna be gone. I think the thing, you know, you mentioned him, and what you know, in when they were in the SEC tournament, and we were and I went and watched the game uh that he was playing, and Darren Zaycuff went a shit, and then to hear Trevon Brazil come running up and down the floor. The thing that stands out to me, all the things you said, the rim threat, the the floor space, and the thing. The thing that stands out to me about uh Brazil is his motor. He is always moving, he is always active, crashing the boards and running around and flaring out for threes and looking for those lob threads. He he was at times when I watched him, he was the best athlete on the floor and also like the hardest playing player on the floor, which is a pretty unique type of thing that you know you have with a guy. And so if he can continue to bring that type that same type of motor, sometimes as you need a guy just to come in and and just wreck wreck stuff and just run up and down, and kind of similar to what Mitch did, Mitch, uh, you know, Mitch Robinson did for the you know for the for the Knicks, but Brazil has a lot more skill to him, has a shot, has a shot to him, can put the ball on the ground for one or two dribbles. Um, and he's a tremendous lob threat. And I just think that motor is the thing that will make him um will make him successful in the league. Unfortunately, I think he's gonna go, but um, but I think he's gonna. Yes, Slippery, you're right. It's Bryce Hopkins, not Thompson. I'm sorry about that. I was thinking about somebody else. Bryce Hopkins, you're right. That is him.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

No, I mean you're you're absolutely right. Like I said, it's gonna be a crapshoot. The second round is always just all over the place. Yay, for the NBA for making the draft, two days for some reason. Like everyone was like, Yeah, there's a great idea. That's crazy, yeah. Yeah, just totally unnecessary. But but but all that being said, this is a pivotal five days leading into this draft. I think again, the domino effects will start to play. And if the Pelicans don't make a crazy move in the first round, I'm hoping for that just because like you just need a year from not being in the media for making a crazy trade. Like, if they don't do that, don't worry, there are gonna be trades shortly after the draft, too, right? And so there's just a lot of things to be molding, a lot of changes to happen around um the NBA this offseason. A lot of teams are trying to duck money and get under the cab, a lot of teams trying to get better to compete with the Spurs and the Thunder, the Knicks, and things like that. Like, there's a lot of teams going for it, and so the only way under this new CBA is for people to move and for players to move in trades. And with all the Giannis stuff, I just expect the Pelicans to be in the mix in some facet, whether that's trades, free agency, the draft noise, and things like that, whatever that may be. But with that being said, Garrett, what you got left for the people as we let we lead into this this this crazy week, uh, that is the NBA draft.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

As always, you never know what people are going through. So give someone a smile today. Uh, yeah, man, this is this is the craziness of the times, and um, you know, this this is probably gonna be one of the more active, um, active offseasons, drafts, or whatever you want to call it, simply because I think Giannis is going to get moved, and I think people are waiting and things are are are gonna, you know, people are keeping their assets. You hear all of these stories about well, this is the team's plan B, and then it's like half the NBA, right? It's Kawhi and Trey. Oh, yeah, you're those guys are just gonna move to it. So, um, so yeah, I think this is gonna be a a really active um there, and I and I and I think I mean an active offseason. I think the Pelicans are gonna be in it, and even if they aren't like super in it this year, they got Milwaukee pick next year, and then uh the swap for next year, and then you know, we'll we'll see at that point who's on the Bucks team and how you know how uh juicy that pick will be to the league, and will people start so like there's gonna be a lot of pelicans attached to a lot of things going on, um, you know, and we'll be here for it. We'll be in uh in in and summer league, regardless of who the Pelicans draft or whoever will be there uh to see some of the new prospects. So we'll be coming to y'all uh as we as we go there as well. So as always, follow myself at Garrick underscore rattler, follow my brother at Raphael underscore rattler, follow the page at no underscore basketball no e. Um, last thing, everyone who has dealt with dealt with that storm uh in southeast Louisiana last year. We all thinking about you, we all praying for you. Everybody that's in Mississippi, all of those areas. Um, everybody please stay safe out there, and we'll see you guys in the next one.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Also, happy Father's Day uh for everybody tomorrow, and happy birthday to the other person, Cinderella Crawford, my best friend in the world. I get to do this. This is fun. I had somebody ping me the other day, was like, How do y'all get up here and talk? I was like, Do you understand? It's the sport I love, it's the brother I love, it's the city I love. This is just like talking, like this is this is this is easy, things like that. But happy birthday to you. You go enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself. Hopefully, the pelicans don't blow it up for you so that you can't enjoy your birthday as well. I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Can we not do birthday, please?

SPEAKER_00 56:25

But everybody enjoy the Juneteenth, enjoy the Spotler's Day, and we'll holla at y'all next week.