Pelicans Playing It Too Safe? | Center Conundrum & Summer League Preview

he New Orleans Pelicans have taken a much more cautious approach this offseason—but is that the right strategy after a 26-56 season?

In this episode, Raphael Rattler and Garrick “G-Money” Rattler discuss why Joe Dumars may be choosing patience over blockbuster moves, whether the Pelicans should still pursue a center upgrade, and which players they’re most excited to watch during NBA Summer League.

🏀 In this episode:

• Why the Pelicans have stayed quiet this offseason
• Is New Orleans making the right decision by competing instead of rebuilding?
• Why the Pelicans are rarely a free-agent destination
• Could waiting until the trade deadline be the smarter move?
• Which Pelicans veterans could still be moved?

👇 Join the conversation!

Would you trade for Walker Kessler?
Should the Pelicans make another move before the season?
Who are you most excited to watch in Summer League?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hey, Venorita.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

What up, what up, what up? Welcome to another episode of New Orleans Dot Basketball. I'm your host, Raphael Rattler, joined by my fellow middle brother, Gary G Munradler. What's popping with you, bro? What up, what up, bro? It's man, it's been good. Been been a minute since we've been on this pod, man. You know, things things happening, you know, as always. Or not, um, or not happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Things have been quiet. Um, but yeah, man, everything's all good on this side, man. City is uh shaking back from Essence Festival, man. Once again, always beautiful to see uh, you know, my people coming down and going and celebrating themselves in the essence culture in the in the city of New Orleans. Um, just another reason why things should be uh in New Orleans. I think Summer League should be in New Orleans, they should give new uh Summer League a shot. I mean the heat is about whatnot, bigs. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's fair, but at least you could walk to the smoothie king center. Uh you can't walk to the Thomas and Mac Center. We're we're gonna find that out uh shortly. But yeah, man, everything's all good. Uh on this side. Yeah, the city is the city is is is a blaze, man, because uh, you know, we got got some local flavor going going put on that that Pelicans uniform, man. Really, really cool thing to see. Um, and yeah, outside of that and DeAndre Jordan, that's all.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

That's all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

That's that's pretty much it. But uh, how's everything on your side? Man, oh team USA. I I heard they're down three-one. Now we in the midst of recording and the game is on. I gotta go watch this blunder that apparently the goalie made that is all time oof. So um, looks like you know, the the yeah, I'm not a huge soccer fan, obviously, but I do get up for the world cup because it's you know, it's you know, get get get get your get your countrymen together and let's get it get it going. Um, so I've been locked in. Shout out to to Gerard, our little brother, been kind of feeding me the information that I need to know about the World Cup. Um, but man, it's it's it's cool to see it in the USA. Um, but it looks like the USA is not gonna be able to advance past the sweet 16. So um, you know, it's all good, it's all good, man. It was a it was a it was gave it a good try. But um, how's everything on your side, bro? Everything is blessed, everything is blessed, other than the fact that it's 1,000 degrees outside already, everywhere, everywhere you go. It doesn't matter the city, doesn't matter the location, it is hot, it is spicy everywhere. Other than that, I can't complain. I hope everyone had a safe uh and healthy 4th of July. I hope that um everyone was able to enjoy themselves and uh no one lost any fingers with fireworks or anything. Please know, please know. But yeah, man, to your point, um, a lot has happened since the last time we talked, and nothing has happened since the last time we talked. Um, despite all the rumors, despite all the trade engine, despite all the the hoopla leading into the draft, the pelicans did not trade up. Trey Murphy is still on the team, Herb Jones is still on the team, DeAndre Jordan is still on the team, and that's pretty much it. And so it's after all of the shebang from last offseason, there has been nothing but crickets this offseason. And no matter what, just like we always say, the Pelicans are never boring because people are pissed either way. So before we get into it, before we get too deep into it, make sure you guys follow us on Twitter, on X, on IG, on TikTok, that's in no basketball no e. Make sure you're liking the episode below and make sure you are subscribed to the channel. So the NBA looks different, which is wild. Like, I feel like we talk about this every offseason. Like the NBA, unlike the NFL and the MLB and the NHL, like it is a entertainment business because whether it's personalities, whether it's transactions, whether it's what happens on the on the court, it's just always something going on in the NBA. But this summer, Garrett, Giannis is now on the heat. Jalen Brown is on the Sixers, Kawhi's back in the six, like LeBron is making decision number three. Like, like, what happened? Like, in a short amount of time, the NBA looks like one of those. My son is very into the YouTube shorts. He's he the NBA looks like one of the YouTube videos you're watching when they just go and change the whole league up and put different players on different teams. That's what the league looks like right now, which again, that's exciting. Like, if you're a fan of the NBA, it's like, whoa, what happened? But at the same time, you're like, Man, this next season is gonna look completely different, and that's exciting to a lot of folks, unless you're a Pelican. So, so let's call the Pelicans' approach so far this offseason as cautious, right? Let's let's let that let's use it that word because we talked about it going in. Um, the Pelicans obviously make the trade for Derek Queen last year, don't have a draft pick going in this year. They've said nothing, their actions have said nothing. They're hiring a coach that all say the same things that they're ready to compete. And so you and I talked about it before. It never made sense for a team that's ready to compete to trade assets that can help you now for a player who's probably not gonna be able to really help you win for years down the line, if not one year, two years, things like that. So that never made sense, and the fact that the Pelicans were up against the cap with all their contracts being movable and being tradable, but still being up against the cap for a 26-win team. The only way you are gonna be able to there, I don't understand like the the the freak out from the the fan base in free agency news flash New Orleans has never been an NBA destination city, it will never be an NBA destination. That is not how you're ever going to build a winner from this team. So the fact that free agency has like started and like I don't know about the rules, but like the rules don't really apply because everybody knew where everybody was going. But like the fact that the Pelicans weren't like in on a lot of free agents, their books tell you they're not they're not gonna be in unless they made a trade, they weren't gonna be in. So, like, you knew that free agency wasn't gonna be how they changed their their team, it was gonna be via trade or via trade. And so far this summer, there has been none of that. Let's stop there. What are your thoughts for a team that hired a coach that is looking to win right away, for a team that has said nothing, but we want to win or want to start building it, build build a culture of winning right away, for a team that's coming off 26 wins to have cricket so far. What are your thoughts? Listen, it it is a shock to the system for some. Um it it really it really isn't that surprising for me. Um first of all, the thing that you don't want to do, you don't want to make a move for the sake of making a move and end up costing yourself in the short term and then possibly in the long term, because just making trades to kind of do things is how you end up with 32 33 million dollars on your roster um in an in a player that you can't play uh play at all. Um, and then now even with it being an expiry contract, you can't find a uh seller for that guy, right? And so you're in a situation in New Orleans where you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, because if you don't make any type of move to the team, then you you're known as okay, well, you're running this terrible team back once again, correct? But if you make a move and you give out a bad contract, say Solomon Hill version, right? Just to add the person to your or Omar Ashik, Alexis Jensa, you just add that person to the team just because you were trying to give out a contract and add a person to the team, or you give Kavon Looney eight million dollars just because you're trying to add somebody to the team, um, then then you're you're considered a front office mismanagement or whatever the case is. So you you you you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Going into to next season, I always thought, and it's kind of what's been the outward-facing message from Joe Dumars, from you know, from Jamal Mosley, is that this team has players who were utilized correctly and who haven't been healthy, right? A lot of pla a lot of times that you know about the last season's pelicans that you don't really think about is that the Pelicans played a majority of their season without a starting point guard. And again, you know, there was a there's a lot to do with it. Jeremiah Fears was not ready to step in and help contribute to a team, neither was Derrick Queen. But for sure, the point guard position. I think anybody who is being reasonable, right? Pelicans are not a good team, not a great team, not anywhere close to it. But there was a market difference when DeJounte Murray came back to this team. There just was, if you're just being honest, and so the Pelicans can view the return of DeJounte, another offseason under his belt healthy, as a bit of a of a free agency move, right? You already agency is what they call it. You're already starting off from a different place than you started off last season. If you will just want to talk about changes, there's a change right there. You're getting a an adult at the point guard position in an approving NBA player um at the point guard position, you change coaches, right? And I think the whole Trey Murphy for draft capital never made sense for me. Uh, because you don't hire a coach who is a floor raiser and then take away all of the tools to make that floor, so that maybe three years down the line you might be able to get back and find a player who is half as good as Trey Murphy, um, you know, or in a lottery system that you have no idea what the rules will be. Um, and so it it always made sense that this team was gonna try to to to move around the edges, use that Jordan Poole expiring contract, um, you know, to find a center or find a shooter, whatever they wanted to use that for, and then move into you know this season and at least give this team you know the at least to the trade deadline, or they were doing their due diligence with every team. Is GM is supposed to do. Every GM is supposed to call about Trey Murphy, every GM is supposed to call about Herb Jones because those are good basketball players who can help other teams, and it would and the Pelicans would not be doing their jobs, Jared Weaver would not be doing his job, Joe Dumas will not be doing his job if they didn't at least listen to every offer that came for both of those guys. And I think what what's been reported, what they've said is the truth. We're not looking to trade them, but if you come to us with a blow-out socks off offer, we will trade you Trey Murphy, we will trade you Herb Jones. Nobody has come to them with that sock, that the uh those kind of draft, I mean those kind of trade packages, and here we are. And so it it is not a surprise to me. Um, I do think the Pelicans need to do obviously something with the Jordan Poole, Jordan Hawkins kind of contracts, and and do something with that to add a piece here or there, but as far as those main trades go, they say they wasn't trading Zion, Trey and Herb. They talked about what their price is for Trey and Herb, and and they've come out and say they're not trading Ease Messi, who is the only real center-ish on the team, uh, as is. So it just never it it it it this this route never it didn't shock me. Um, and I thought this was the most likely outcome. Sure. I mean, let me take a couple steps back. So I agree with you wholeheartedly. There wasn't a player that was attainable, like you weren't getting AJ DeBonsa, like you weren't getting a top four pick, even if you traded Trump to hell with Trey Murphy, even if you traded Zion, I don't think any of those top four teams were gonna give you that pick for one what which was a loaded draft class. You weren't getting that, so if you weren't getting one of those needle movers that could potentially blossom into something special, you were not getting a player that was gonna change your franchise by trading one of these players. So that's one. Let's also talk about the Jalen Brown situation. One, you talk about the price for Trey Murphy. I I I compare it to this. Like when people trade with like Danny Age and stuff like that, like I feel like everybody has a fantasy draft. And if you have a long time fantasy draft with the with your old old friends, you always got one guy who you never trade with because they're never realistic. Because every time you talk to them, their players are always so much more valuable than your players. I feel like that's how Danny Age is. So I didn't I didn't even want to have the conversation about Walker Kessler, but let's talk about Jalen Brown. The everyone is up in arms about the Pelicans not trading for Jalen Brown. Oh, he only went for two draft picks. I mean, also, if Jalen Brown went for two draft picks, I'm not sure a team is then going to follow that up by trading Trey Murphy for more than two draft picks, but anyway, I don't think the Pelicans are Jalen Brown away from a championship. And so everyone's saying, Well, well, well, why wouldn't you trade for a player that could be potentially quote unquote cheap in terms of a trade package? Well, if you make that trade for Jalen Brown, for everyone we just talked about, the Pelicans have not been a good team. The Pelicans, this iteration of the Pelicans have shown no signs of like continuous sustainable winning. So if you go trade for a Jalen Brown, who one is already making damn near 60 million down, and two, going to want a contract extension thereafter, you are saying that we are ready to compete. Now, my next question would be okay, let's say you make a trade for Jalen Brown and you don't give up that much. You maybe give up Trey and some other stuff. How many series are you walking into in the Western Conference with Jalen Brown as your post? Let's say you keep Zion and you're saying we have the best player on the court and we're gonna go beat OKC, we're gonna beat Minnesota, we're gonna go. How all how confident are you saying that? Because that's exactly what you're doing. If you go trade for a player who's in his prime, ready to win now, wants more money. I just don't think the Pelicans are there. I don't think that they're one superstar away. I think it needs to be growth at I've said this all offseason at every level of the team, at the superstar level, at the role player level, at the bench player level, at the coaching, at the front office, at the jersey sales, at the like everyone, everyone needs to be better, right? And so you don't go make a win now trade. I think the league would have laughed at the Pelicans if they went and traded for Jalen Brown and they're like, to do what, right? They're after. And so there's there's also the fact that Jalen Brown told the 76ers that he didn't want to play for the Pelicans, right? Right. So so you don't really know where you stand on that. And so for my for from my I understand why the Pelicans weren't hot and heavy in no negotiations with the Celtics, because it just doesn't make it sense where the team is. Not to mention Sadiq Bey is making six million dollars this year. Garrick, Joe Dumas came out and said Sadiq Bey is the definition of what we want our organizations to be moving forward. I can promise you that next year he will be making a lot more money than this is a team that's already up to the deck with the tax and have never paid the tax. So you're already saying that a person on your team is gonna make probably quadruple what they make next year than this year. So, how would you bring more money to this team without going over the tax? Like, that's that's what I look at. I look at from that standpoint. But to your point about the deadline, now we talk about Trey, we talk about her, we talk about Sadiq, Zion, any of these players, and we've talked about it all offseason. If you look at these players in a vacuum and you go through the list, the Pelicans have about eight players that would probably be on any rotation in the NBA today. It just so happens that they had 26 wins and it didn't come together last year. Now, that being said, if you know you have players that can fit on different teams and that and that could easily be molded to different players places, what offers that you're being presented today for Trey Murphy, for Herb Jones, for Ease Mises Hein, whoever, what offers today are better than what you would have at the trade deadline? Because wouldn't a team that is getting closer, like let's say the the beginning of the season goes out and shambles again, and you get to the trade deadline, there's teams ramping up and trying to go for it. Would they offer less than what they're doing now than then if they're trying to go for it? And so, what is the rus to go throw yourself in a bad bad trade just to say we're mixing it up? That doesn't that's bad business, in my opinion. And so, like, I don't necessarily mind the the patient approach. There are we've talked about there are holes and gaps on this roster that need to be addressed that have not been addressed so far. We're about to talk about one of them, but to make a trade or to force yourself into a trade that you know you probably are not gonna win, whether you're a winning team or whether you're a losing team, you're setting yourself up as an organization again to one look bad, but two, not get the value back that you wouldn't in the first place. Like, this is not, I don't think this is like a Brandon Ingram situation where you hold on to a player too long that you knew you probably weren't gonna pay that type of money, so then you don't get the return back. Trey Murphy's 26 years old. Like at the trade deadline, people are still gonna want Trey Murphy. Her job, like, like, like, like these players are don't have contracts or extensions coming that are so significant that someone's gonna offer you significantly less if they want out or whatnot. These are players that would be coveted in a lot of different situations around the league. So, why force yourself into a corner in order to again execute a bad trade? It just doesn't make sense to me. Whether that's DeJounte Murray or not, like we talked that you talked about DeJounte Murray going at this point last summer, you had no idea when DeJounte was coming back. Yes, he came back. Yeah, the Pelicans were closing games, still didn't win. He was still on minutes restriction, so like I don't know how much of that you can count and stuff like that. But I would venture to say DeJounte Murray has a better chance of increasing his value between now and the trade deadline than he has playing 14 games on minutes restriction last season. So again, it's just it's just bad business, I think, to rush and force a trade just because everyone's clamoring for one. Now, we talk about the gaps and we talk about the issue. What's up, uh Troubade? We talk about those things. A lot of the things that have been talked about are the center position for the Pelicans. Um, if you look at this offseason, it's been a real one because we're we're we're entering into again the the NBA, really sports in general are cyclical, right? You go from we're the Golden State Warriors and everybody's playing small ball, Draymond's at the five, to oh, yeah, now everybody needs a seven foot four guy, a third foot two guy, and a big guy. Like every we're back to the double bigs again. So that the NBA runs in a circle. So you look at that and you look at what Memphis did, and yeah, they were rebuilding, but all they did was add giants. You look at the Spurs, you look at the Thunder. What did they do? When and added another giant, like you look at all these teams and they're adding footers left and right. The Pelicans have zero footers, right? Like 6'11, DeAndre Jordan 6'11, and he's older than me. Like, like the the Pelicans have none of those seven-foot players, and so you look at the center position, you looked at how the the team faltered really on uh from a board perspective, from a rim protection perspective, just in a lot of ways at the center. I mean, listen to Jeremiah Fears himself. He's over there saying we didn't have stuff like that. But you have an interesting conundrum. You talked about you know Chris Haynes' report of the New York Knicks trying to get Ease Missy, and again, you don't know what they're offering. They're probably they they're not offering first-round picks, they're probably offering pennies and stuff like that, where the Pelicans are like, Yeah, man, nah, we're good, stuff like that. But everyone's up in arms again because you don't want to trade one of these players. And I don't know, Eve's had a down year statistically last year, but to your point to start this pod, I think there's a lot of players, ease Missi included, who were misused last year. Like, whether you didn't play them at all, whether you didn't play them for long periods of time, whether you just played them in a weird way, just misuse. And so, like, I credit some of that to him. Now, there's a lot that he needs to grow on, and I think he will continue to be. But the question remains what are the Pelicans gonna do at center? Some of the rumors have been around hey, to your point, Jordan Poole, Jordan Hogg, can you get off some of that money? Because that's the only way you. Can make trades to go find another big body. But here's the conundrum. Easy Mees is 21 years old. He's about seven months older than Derek Weed. This is a player that you want to see grow. In today's NBA, when your center's got to block shots, he's got to be able to shoot threes, he's got to be able to do a lot of things, he's got to do uh he's be able to finish above the rim. You have an athletic big who's just starting to like figure things out and like the wheels are starting to turn. So, how much are you willing to trade to go find either a player better than that or equal to that so that you can play him in part? So, my question to you is if you're looking at the center market, which so far has been a little bit wild, the Walker Kessler trade was something. I'll just say that we can talk about that later. Something, but like Jalen Dern, all NBA, obviously had a bad playoffs. I don't think he's going anywhere from Detroit, but like he's in in battles with his own team, and then you look around the league like Andre Drummond's sign and like Mitch went to the Celtics, but like there's not a whole lot of centers moving or changing teams and things like that. So when you look at the landscape of the league, probably not free agents anymore, but like trades to pitch potentially had, are you looking for like a huge upgrade? Because I'm not sure that player is available, or are you looking for someone to help fill in your big man rotation? Yeah, this is where I think where I've been having the conversation and the questions about um about the level of center that you would be looking for if you're going to look for a center, because I said this all last season, the curious case of of Carlo Makovich, right? Like he he got on the floor and did good things, and then you didn't see him for large stretches of games. And so my question is if your front court or your power forward center rotation is in some form or fashion Zion, Eve Misi, Derek Queen, Carlo, where would that center play? And okay, let's say it's a starting center. Okay, that's fine. Well, then you just picked up Carlos, you know, Carlos uh uh option. So like I I'm gonna assume that you want Carlo Makovich to play. You you spent first round draft capital on Eves Misi. So if you're not gonna trade him, I'm sure you're trying to maximize and get the most out of him, and then you spend Uber draft capital on Derrick Queen. So I'm sure he has to play as well. And so if you drop in, let's say, for instance, you go get Miles turn, okay? Miles turn is a fine player, he does a lot of things that you would want the Pelican, you know, uh uh a center for this version of the Pelicans, space the floor, rim protect, things like that. He has a lot of Carlo Makovich to his game, not a great rebound, not the best rebound, okay. So if you're gonna pay, if you're gonna if it just takes Jordan Poole, get you know the Jordan Poole contract to go get Miles Turner, right? And maybe some maybe a second, some second, whatever the case is, maybe whatever it takes to get your to get Miles Turner, then you plot Miles Turner into that center rotation, he he slots in as your starting center, and now your backup center is is is Eves Misi. Well, does Carlo not play? Because you know Derrick Queen for sure is gonna play, and Zion is gonna be starting at the power forward, so those minutes will be so and that you're paying him 20 million dollars or whatever the case, however much you know, however much uh Miles Turner is getting paid, 20 plus a lot more than 20 million. Yeah, yeah, I think what is it? It's 20, 25, 26, but whatever many, however many many he million he's getting. So that that is the the the the conundrum. There's a there's a there's a ton of conundrums down this team. You talk about the Herb Jones Sadiq Bay conundrum, which we drift, you know, deep into the which we kind of unearthed even more a little bit if you know if you know we're talking earlier today. Um, but then you have another conundrum with with with Miles turning it. So if you if you don't go that route, then you go say you go like a wendell carter route or some some situation like that. Well then like what does that like what does that guy you know what does he command? What is it does he want another contract? Is that person slotted above Eve's Misi? How many minutes does Ease play? And so I do think this the center position, you need another big body or two, right? Like you do need a bigger body. I just don't know if you need to go spin like some serious capital in that route, especially when uh obviously guys are playing, like you said, double bigs and things like that. But we saw in this playoffs, even in this finals, right? Luke Cornet got played, got uh got played off the floor. He couldn't play, so it was really wimpy, and then they would like go like Keldon Johnson at the five when he would play. And then you had mild, you had uh on on the other side with with Kat, and then you play Mitch Robinson. Obviously, Mitch brought a different flavor to the game, and he was you know incredible in his role. Um, but like I don't like you, you should go get a body that could that can battle with that person, but like you don't need to spend 20, 25, 30 million dollars to go get that when you're gonna have times where where Zion might be the biggest guy on the floor for certain uh stretches on the floor when talking about like big as far as like size-wise and things, or like you might have Derek Queen back there for like small ball five, or Carlo might be like that. So you have to you have to find a way to add to this team. I just don't know if if allocating 25 million dollars to a center um fixes everything that you need. Like you can go if if LeBron goes to Cleveland and somehow, some way the the Cavs want to trade Jared Allen for Jordan Poole. Like, I don't know how else you'll get Jared Allen unless you're trading Jordan Poole and multiple first, uh which they're not gonna want. And so then you're talking about well, are you gonna trade Trey Murphy for Jared Allen? Like it and that gate, so like there's a lot that you have to think about when you're thinking about adding people to this team, their their cap implications, their second apron implications, and the Pelicans have shown they they are not paying the the they're not doing it until you they've they've have proof of concept, and so you know you can you know be upset and be mad and think that it's the wrong way to do it, and and I'm not saying that it is the right or the wrong way to do it. What I'm saying is what they've shown you and what the history has shown you, and going forward, I just don't know if they're gonna if if doing it or even if them looking to do it is something that they're gonna do, spending 25 million dollars on a starting center when you have other glaring issues that that need to be you know to be addressed. Let's talk about the Miles Turner situation. I see it in the comments. You know, go get Miles Turner again. If you have watched Miles Turner over his career or you have followed his fan bases, the same things we're talking about, like some of the frustrations about from the semi-present or lack thereof, has been a knock on him as well. We talk about the rebound. A lot of times he's the tallest guy on the court, but he is not the one fighting for rebounds. And so I I to me, I understand the Miles Turner situation, but I look at it from a different perspective. If you're gonna trade to your point, Jordan Poole, and you're you're you're trading, let's say a depreciating asset that's an expiring contract for a position of need. If both are depreciating access, even though the Bucs have said they don't want to trade, I don't know what Miles Turner is doing for the Bucs this season, but but they said that they don't want to trade it. Even if that's the case, that's a contract extension they gave to him while Giannis was on the team. Now Giannis is no longer on the team and they're not competing for much. And so you look at that and say, okay, if you're willing to have some cap relief, we have an expiring contract for you. If you want to look at it that way and you want to say, okay, Miles Turner and and in because he's a better player than Carlo. If Miles Turner even and having some type of combination there to get us through, we have some floor spacing, then we have like a traditional rim running big. I could get there. But if the Bucs could get there, I think Miles Turner would already be a Pelican. So something, so something, something is not right. Like, obviously, the Pelicans have a big knee circled, and the Bucks are like, Yeah, but we don't want what you have. So that's why the deal hasn't been struck. Let me ask you this question. Now, I see a lot of people in the comments, I'm betting on ease. I also think the likelihood that you're gonna get a player that's significantly better than Ease Messi without giving up significant capital or or or any type of value is is low. Like, I just don't think that player exists because everybody wants their center, because everyone needs a center, like that that the ones that are willing to be moved are the ones that people don't want, right? This is my question for the starting center position. When you say that you need a player better than Eve Misi, what what exactly do people mean by that? Because are you looking for like Nicola Jokic, where like you can throw the ball to him and he just like posts up, or like are you looking for like Shaq, where like you every play is gonna be run through this center because you have DeJounte Murray, you have Trey Murphy, you have Zion Williamson, you have Jeremiah Fairs, you have Sadiq Bay. All of these guys, I would say that those five off the dump are probably gonna be in front of that center on the higher offensive hierarchy. And so, if you're saying, Well, we need a center that's gonna rim run, block shots, and rebound, you have that on the team, and so I I you're not going to get like Carl Anthony Towns to come to New Orleans, and so what center, when you say a person that is better, this team again, I until Zion is not on this team, this team is going to be structured around him or Derrick Queen or Jeremiah Fierce or DeJounte Murray at the with the ball in their hands, with offense moving around those guys, and so I those you you can't be looking for a center who's a 20-point per game scorer because that person is not gonna get utilized on this team the way that you would be utilized on some team where you could go get 20-25 points a game, and so at this point, for this team, until this team is not built around Zion and Troy Murphy, that the offense is gonna go through them and those guards, you know, DeJounte, Jeremiah Fear, like those guys, it's not gonna go through the center, and so you need a center to fit this team. The problem with that people talk about this Pelicans team is that you have all of these talented players that don't fit together. That's the that's the that's what everybody talks about with the Pelicans. So to go get a center who can score 20 points a game and pay him 25 million dollars, 26 million dollars, when you have Zion, Ed Trey, a Sadiq, it's Jeremiah Fears, and Derek Queen, who are going to be the ball, the offense is going to be played through those guys. It just is a it's a misallocation of assets and it's a misallocation of money. If that is where you're saying, like that is where they need to take this expiring contract or whatever they have left, there's one chip, this one way to to move and make something make this team better. This is the one way you have to do it, and you're gonna do it and spend it on a guy who's gonna be doing this the whole game. You're you're you're absolutely right. Like, like I look at it as, and again, I totally get it. Like, you're looking at the rebounding because the rebound was open, and and again, like, shout out to JV. I don't know if he's retiring this year or not, but like the rebounding when he was on the team was already spoken for because you know JV was right there to get the as soon as he left. You're like, damn, well, that's what it's like to get rebounds. And this goes back to how I started the pod. I don't think this is an ease Macy issue, I don't think this is a Carlo Makovich's issue, I don't think this is a Derek Queen issue. I think the entire roster has to be better at rebound. I'm looking at Zion, I'm looking at Trey. There's no reason that you have the athleticism for any of the players I just named. I'm looking at Herb and you don't get rebounded. This is what I mean by like a mentality shift. It can't just be one guy needs to get boards, it needs to be everyone needs to be better at like look at OKC. When they go small, it's not Chet gobbling up all the rebounds, everybody is hitting the boards. The same thing with the Spurs. The Dylan Harper, one of the most impressive things about him is that that guy is always around the ball and he's a guard. Like, it's a mentality thing versus a one thing. I think the likelihood of Eve's meeting at 21 years old. I keep going back to that. Like, everyone talking about DQ is the future and Jeremiah Fears the court. Eve's is a couple months older than those players. Like, he's just been on the team longer, so you assume that he's older, and he's played a hell of a lot less basketball than both of those two as well. So I think the likelihood that he takes another step, especially as you kind of saw him toward the end of last season, in his consistency, because it's not the rebounding, it's not the activity, because you saw it in Spurts where Ease looked like the best player on the court at times, it's the consistency, the motor type thing that I think he needs to harness and bring. Now, let me ask you this question because again, this is going to be a hot topic because this is the the gap that was so evident last year last year for the Pelicans. If you're the Pelicans and you traded two first-round picks, two swaps, and you gave this man a $32 million multi-year contract for Kessler. Marker Kessler was probably the most gettable best center available this offseason. Let me ask this, and in the comments as well. If the Pelicans made that trade, so you gave away future capital and all this for him to come be the rim runner, rebounding lob threat, would you be happy as a Pelicans fan? Like, if you were like, We mortgaged the future to get this guy who was the best available, we're set and we're ready to go. Because the team would basically be the same, right? Except you're just adding one guy and with a lot of money and a lot of draft pick. Is that the answer? Like, I like you know, show me in the comments. Like, I want to know if you would be thrilled right now if you gave the same trade to Utah as the Lakers. You know, you know what that what that's I know was the answer to that question because you know what you know who's dealing with something like that right now? The San Antonio Spurs. They went and got Darren Fox, and it was like, Oh, yeah, D Fox, he keeps coming in here to be the point guard for Wimby. The pick and roll is about to be great. All right, he's looking for an extension. No worries, go give him the money. Got got uh Wimby got dealer, uh, you know, got Steph Castle, those are rookie deals. Not worried about that, and then a year pass and you're like, Okay, it's not it's not great. Wait, we just paid him how much money 200 24 25 million. Okay, all right, and then they get to the finals, and that contract starts to look abnormal, like the screaming elephant in a room, and now it's like, Well, who's gonna help get this DR Fox uh contract off of your books? No one, no one is helping the Lakers get that Walker Kessler contract off of their books. And had the Pelicans done something like that. Um, I think you know, Adam Silver would be on and be like, you know what? You know, we was talking about Vegas and Seattle. You know, yeah, might they move somewhere else? I had to move another team somewhere else because uh this isn't working. That you you don't overpay the they overpaid Walker Kessel, Utah knew exactly what the Lakers wanted, they knew they had to spend the money right now, they knew they had to appease Luca, and they knew that Walker Kessel would get them with it, and and and so that is the kind of the the center position when you talk about like seven footers and footers. The reason why they aren't a lot available is because a lot of teams know just how important they are, and so when they are available, when they are gettable, you start getting these kind of conversations like what are you willing to give up for Walker Kessler? Oh, two unprotected first, two pick swaps, and you're gonna pay him 35 million dollars too. Like the Lakers had to overpay for a center nowadays. So, like I just in this new CBA, it is a death sentence if you have one, two bad contracts on your books. It is a you are going to spend time and you are going to spend assets to try to remedy that situation, and for the Pelicans to just go try to do it for the sake of saying, okay, we just cannot run this team back, it's just a misallocation uh uh of those assets, and I just don't know if like that that is the kind of contract that could get you in cap hell for years combined. I want to talk about this comment right here. Slippy, you're absolutely correct. I do agree, just like we talked about, that the the league is heading back to double bigs, but just like you talked about in the playoffs, a lot of teams are not going double big in the playoffs. You wonder why? Because people find your weaknesses and expose them right away. So if it wasn't Walker, even Walker Kessler, he's got some weaknesses as well. He's not the fastest guy ever. And so if you're gonna get bigs, they need to be versatile, they need to be able to shoot. Walker Kessler's not a shooter, 32 million dollars, not a shooter, like literally to catch lobs into a rim protect, he's not a shooter. So, so if you're only limited to a certain part of your game to spend a quarter of the cap for someone who's gonna average 12 and 10, 13 and 10, you better be damn sure the rest of your roster is ready to win. And I don't think that the Pelicans are there yet. And so, the same way everyone looked last offseason and said the Pelicans are a joke, what a what a trade. I can't believe they made the dumbest trade ever. The same season that Luca got traded, they were like, This is the dumbest trade. Now people are like, Oh, yeah, it don't look that bad. This is the same people that made that trade, and now when they're being a little bit more cautious and being more measured with what they do, you're saying the same things again. So, to your point, how you started it, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now, they did not make a trade, so we're looking at the summer league roster with no first-round pick, and you're like, ooh, ooh, look at the names on there. So the Pelicans dropped their summer league roster today. Shout out to Sham God, his first opportunity being a head coach uh for the Pelicans Summer League. We can't wait to get out there. I mean, it's gonna be hot, but we can't wait to get out there and experience it just a little bit. But we do have to talk about now. Again, I understand fans are upset. I am always a believer, is I am no, I am no one to tell you how to feel. So if you are upset, you are more than welcome, and it's your right to be upset. And everyone's like, Why are you talking so much about a second round pick and things like that? Because it's a unique situation, and to hell, Garrick, you know this young man, so we're gonna talk about it anyway. So the Pelicans do not trade up, they trade 58th, they draft a Purple Knight, St. Augs finest, someone you know well. I'm not sure he's going to play a lot, I'm not sure he won't be on the G League team. I'm not sure that's not the case, but going in the summer league, knowing that Jeremiah Fields was not playing, knowing that Derrick Queen is not playing, which I for one never thought they were gonna play. These they just started 50, they just started 50 games in the NBA. That was their summer league. Like, we watched last summer league, and it was very clear that oh, this is not serious basketball, and so like to put them in that environment again with even probably less talent. Um I don't know if you're learning. We we watched Derek Queen break his freaking wrist at summer league, and we don't need to expose any more injury to to fears of Queen than we need to continue. Listen, every 30 seconds you see Jeremiah Fears in the gym. So some of the times when he he's gonna be all right when it comes comes to training camp. But talk to me a little bit about Jerome Pierre, talk to me a little bit about your your experience, your exposure to the young man. Talk to me about what you're looking for out of summer league. Like, I personally I'm looking at Michael Peavy, not because I expect him to go be the summer league MVP, but again, it's the Herb conundrum. This is a player who was an offensive engine. Herb was not the offensive engine in college at Alabama. Micah Peavy was the offensive engine at Georgetown for his team. If he can get to the point where he is serviceable on the offensive end, can knock down a shot. That's what I'm looking for summerly from him. I don't care how aggressive you can get him up. My dog and Darius Acub got him 29 shots. Yesterday, get him up. There's no one stopping you there. That's what I'm looking for. But talk to me about Jeron. Talk to me about what you're looking for, so Lee. Yeah, nah, I want to see Michael P V too. I want to see if he can get some consistent shots. I think we were talking about you know conundrum, Sini Sadiq Bey conundrum with Herb Jones and his corner threes and his three-point percentage and his extension, and he goes up to 20 million. And so, like, you're gonna have a conundrum. So, how do you kind of how does one how do you could see yourself out of out of one way? We see people in the in the comments talk about trading herb. If Michael Pv can get up to you know a respectable amount at the three-point line, then that is the kind of guy you have to have someone to defend some of these these you know great ball handlers and offenses that you have. Um, that's a guy who, if he can get up to that position, um, you know, it you know, could could you have him step in and take a bigger role this this season and then maybe moving forward? Um, and then also I'd like to see if they're gonna do the same thing they did with Jordan Hawkins, uh, his summer league when they just kind of put the ball in his hands. Obviously, you're gonna give and we're gonna talk about uh Jeron. Um, but like you know, Michael Peavy, can he initiate some offense? Can you get him going and see what's what you know what what he looks like with the ball in his hand? I'm interested to see if they if they do that as well. But Raphael, allow me to allow me to to indulge a little bit. So, yes, Jeron Pierre is a is a Saint Augustine Purple Knight, uh, between law and hope, if you know you know, uh 2600, if you know you know. Um, I watched him all through high school. Um, my one of my best friends, shout out to Brent, he's a uh basketball coach at Saint Augustine. Um, and he you know, you he kept us around, you know. After you graduate, you got your boys that keep you around the school and things like that. Um, and so he kept us around. So we would go to his games, and he would, you know, he was a standout. He was literally the offense for you know while he was there. And when he would come after he graduated from St. Aug and you know, started his career. I think he started at Jacksonville State. We had this men's league in the city, right? And if you lived in New Orleans, um, you know, right after right after like COVID kind of died down a little bit, um, you knew about this league, it was the biggest league in the city. We played at Sophie v. Right. Um, and it was they had a lot of players in there. You had Greg Monroe playing for the team. I had a guy, if you remember, played on the summer league, Frank Bartley. Uh, he won MVP of the Israel League. Um, he's he's my guy, he played on our team. Um, we had a lot of guys playing. You had uh uh Bo Michaaleb, who's a uh basketball legend in the city, uh, with his little brother Tyree. You had a bunch of like local legends and stuff, and Jeron came in and he played in that league. And I got the opportunity to coach him for two or three uh three games. And let me tell you, this like he is a bucket, like he is a walking bucket. He has been doing this since he was in high school. Getting buckets is his business, that is what he does. Um, I was so excited to see him kind of grow up into his man body and put some strength on and things like that. And he will come and play against like older guys, like way older guys. He was a freshman in college, he would come play with guys who are done college, guys who play in the overseas and things like that. And he will hold his arm, he's a physical guy, um, and he's a freak athlete, right? And so I think when you when you look at like a guy like Jordan Poole on the team, right? A guy who you bring him in, and this is the guy who is supposed to step on the floor and be ignitable and just get buckets and be a instantaneous scorer, like that's who Jeron is, right? And so he he's gonna have some some issues on the defensive side of the ball, obviously, because that is the thing that that most rookies, most guards, young guards have to uh learn and and and get comfortable with because these guys are athletic, these guys, all of those guys that you played before in college, these are the cream of the cream of the crop guys, and so you're gonna have to be able to fight through screens, you're gonna have to be able to use some of that that wingspan you have and that athleticism you have to to to stay, you know, right on the defensive team, especially for a guy like Jamal Mosley, who's not gonna give you any slack if you're not playing that that you know that knockdown defense. But as far as getting getting buckets and putting points on the board, Jeremy Pierre, that is something he is he is that he does that in his sleep. Um, I was so excited. I knew he was going to the draft. I had no idea, I didn't think he would get drafted by the Pelicans. I thought he'd get drafted with somebody else or have been undrafted, maybe brought it as an undrafted guy. Um, but listen, he is he was one of the top five scorers in college basketball. Um, you know, every year they all of the years that he was playing, he was up there and scoring 23, 22, 23 points a game. Um, and I'm excited to see him at the summer league with Sham Guy, who's a guard whisperer, who's gonna speak, you know, speak uh a lot of positivity and a lot of of strength and and a lot of work that he's gonna be putting with with Jeron. And so I'm excited to see it. I'm I'm going out there, I might throw on my my Saint All Purple Knight uh class ring um out there. But just to kind of see him and reconnect with him, man, it's been a minute since you know he was coaching those things. He then he took off and become you know college basketball scorer, phenomena and so you know he stopped. Uh the the league had to take a back seat to that. Um, but I'm so happy to see him um you know in the NBA living his dream, uh a local kid, um, and obviously with with Solomon Washington as well. But um, but I'm so excited for Jeron Pierre. And I and I'm I think a lot of people are gonna fall in love with his personality. Uh he's a brash, he talked that he talked that stuff. He don't let he don't let nobody push him around and stuff. And so I really like that about him. But I think his shooting um and his his confidence, he's he's he's got a a brash confidence about him that that we kind of thought Jordan Hawkins had out of college, where you if you miss the first two, I'm taking the next three. Don't worry about him. Jordan uh Jeron Pierre has that, and I'm excited to see him at some of league. And hopefully, you know, he can make the team. Uh, but if not, and he's at the you know with the squadron at the Lake Town, and you know, now that we now that the games will be in Kenner, I'll be at those games to see him him and B uh kind of work their magic there if need be. But hopefully he gets an opportunity because I got I do think he's a big time scorer, and I think that that is that is the kind of bench production and small spurts that you could that you could really use uh from a guy who can be ignitable. Yeah, and what do we always say on this pod? The the best uh ability you can have for self-awareness. To your point, that's the first thing he said when he's interviewed I gotta show what I can do on the defensive side of the ball. Again, you could say that about damn in the entire roster. Jamal, I think again, we'll talk about this in a later pod. I think the biggest weight and the biggest amount of pressure is on Jamal Mosley and on Zion Williamson. You brought up Sham Guy, Sham Guy did an interview with Andrew Lopez not too long ago talking about how Zion wanted to be a three-level score and things like that. To your point about Jerron and his brashness, his size, and things like that. I would always, if there's gonna be a bucket getter or someone like that on the bench and every team needs one, size is always what matters because size can at least get you in the way, right? At least be serviceable on the defensive end. Whereas some of the we you talk about Jordan Hawkins, you talk about Jordan Poole, they don't have the size or the defensive shots, and so on that side they struggle. But if you've got the size and athleticism, it's a want-to thing from a rebounding perspective. So he knows what it's going to take to get on the floor. I'm excited to see it play out in the summer league, see his confidence play out, show what he could potentially bring. Because again, like it's not about being a 58th pick, it's not about being a second-round pick. Look at the finals this season. There were multiple people on both teams that were undrafted or second-round, but it's about finding players around the margin, and those players come back to help you win championships around the day. So it's not just about drafting someone in the lottery over and over. You also have to get the small pieces, and I'm interested to see if this young man can do it as well. You know who else? I'm a little bit interested to see before we wrap this thing up, and some of the surprise, surprise, he's a center. Hunter Dickinson. Now, he started the season game one. He was the first sub of 2025. So he was thrown into action right away. But after some time, after Jays Morego took took over, he went back to the G League. He was putting on some crazy stats. I kept looking at it and I'm sending it to you. I'm like, Hunter, he has 30 of them. How many rebounds? Stuff like that. I'm not saying that he is an NBA player, I'm not saying that he is going to be on this rotation. But for a team that needs bigger bodies, what can you do in summer league year two? Can you show that, hey, I can rebound, hey, I can shoot it a little bit. Hey, I can do some of those things, I can be that third fourth, big off the bench, whatever it be. I'm just a little curious. Like, I know the the Pelicans don't have the name, and this summer league has a ton of names and a ton of Starbucks. They're already going at it already, uh it with the summer league. So when you once we get to Vegas, it's gonna be big names galore. The Pelicans don't have them, but I'm really interested to see just the minute pieces of this team and what could potentially bring to the team. So, with that being said, I still think that there's moves to be had. I know everyone's upset. A lot of deals get done at summer league because uh everyone's in the same place and things like that. The the league does not start for months and months and months, so there are plenty of time for Carl Anthony Towns got traded like the month before the season, so there's plenty of time for deals and transactions to still happen, and so don't just uh throw everything off the desk right now, give it a little bit of time. But I still do think there's a a tweak or two to be had with this rouse. But with that being said, what you got left for the people as we head into summer league? Yeah, as always, you never know what people are going through. So give someone a smile a day. Uh, yeah, man. This this is the this summer league, last year's summer league was about the pick and what did you trade and Derek Queen and Jeremiah Fairs, and is this the future? This season, this this summer league is gonna be about what can what can be added towards the back end of that roster. We talk about Jeron Pierre, we talk about Micah PV, talk about Hunter Dickerson, talk about some of the other guys that are on the on the team. Like maybe there's a standout that we don't see, right? There's somebody who makes a name for themselves, and so this is what this summer league is gonna be about. Um, and I think it's a it's a it's more of a of a shock to see it go from what the all of who blob from last year to the quietness of of this year. Um, but like you said, I do think that there are still moves to be made. The Pelicans still have expiring contracts, they have picks for their picks, they have uh the buck swap and things like this. So they they have things that can be moved. Um, again, basket the NBA regular season doesn't tip off for months, and so you have time for this to move, even if you were to trade for you know Victo Winyama today, you wouldn't see him in the Pelicans jersey until I told you. So you have a lot of time uh to make moves and and and and shure up this roster. Um, and I think the Pelicans are trying to do that, um, and hopefully they can. So, with that being said, as always, follow myself at Garrick underscore rattler, follow my brother at Raphael uh underscore rattler, follow the page at ino underscore basketball. Uh no e. And most importantly, subscribe to new ones.basketball. We appreciate everybody coming through, and we'll see you guys in the next one.