From the Cricket Pitch to the BBQ Pit: Matthew Hoggard

Get ready to transform your barbecue game with insights from none other than cricket legend turned grill master, Matthew Hoggard! Hoggy, as he's affectionately known, takes us through his incredible journey—from his days on the cricket field to becoming the passionate proprietor of Hoggy's Grill, a thriving barbecue school. You'll hear about his love for barbecuing, a passion ignited during his time in South Africa, and his mission to revolutionize the UK's approach to alfresco dining and real fire cooking. Learn how Hoggy has navigated various career transitions and the challenges of setting up his barbecue school amidst a global pandemic, all while building a community of barbecue enthusiasts.

Hoggy offers an inside look at the rewarding experience of running a barbecue school, discussing the evolution of equipment from basic grills to high-end options like Kamado Joe and Traeger. You'll discover the camaraderie within the barbecue community and the joy of teaching kids through eat-free classes, instilling in them a love for cooking and creativity. Hoggy also emphasises the importance of using quality, locally-sourced meat, such as from Simpson's Butchers, to elevate your barbecue experience. Expect to gain expert tips for perfectly grilled meals, from preparing pork belly to achieving that flawless pork crackling.

Elevate your barbecue techniques with Hoggy's seasoned advice on using the right tools, like chimney starters and meat thermometers, to simplify and enhance your grilling. He shares his favorite methods for cooking large cuts of meat, like brisket and pulled pork, and offers creative ideas for using leftover lamb in delicious new ways. This episode is brimming with practical tips and inspiring stories, whether you're a novice or a seasoned grill enthusiast. Join us and let Hoggy ignite your passion for barbecuing, making it a stress-free and enjoyable activity you'll want to share with family and friends.

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Transcript

Matthew Hoggard

Hoggy 0:00

Today's episode of the Meat and Greet Barbecue Podcast is brought to you by AOS Outdoor Kitchens. They are the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Meat and Greet Barbecue Podcast. Today we're speaking to Matthew Hoggard, otherwise known as Hoggy, from Hoggy's Grill, where we're going to talk to him about how he's gone from professional cricketer right the way through to barbecue school owner and everything in between as well. But Hoggy can talk more about that. So, without much further ado, here's Hoggy.

Owen 0:42

Welcome, hoggy, to the Meat and Greet BBQ podcast. It's fantastic to have you here and for everyone. Please introduce yourself. Let us know who you are.

Dan 0:50

Yeah, so I am Matthew Hoggard, a ex-cricketer, a now-BBQ school proprietor and a massive mickey-taker.

Hoggy 1:05

Perfect, that's exactly what we want to hear, in which case, it's a big leap from one of your professions to the other where you find yourself now. Talk us through that journey of how you went from cricket to barbecue school proprietor.

Owen 1:22

I was going to say from cricket to Mickey Taker. Yeah, so I was going to say from cricketer to mickey taker.

Dan 1:28

No, that's always been the mickey taker, throughout the, throughout the life, really. Um, but from cricketer to um barbecue. I went to south africa at 18 years old and I played club cricket over there and they bri every night. They've got the weather for it, they've got fantastic meat and they've got cold beers and lovely wines. And to sit out in the open almost guaranteed nice weather. Um, with the smell of the real fire, with the, the drinking, the eating and just creating such lovely memories of standing out and enjoying each other's company while barbecue in England Fell in love with it.

Dan 2:14

I've been doing it for the last 40 years so not too long and I was lucky enough to make a profession through cricket. I was lucky enough to play for my country for nine years. I played professional cricket for 16 years and I retired in 2013. I tried my hand at coaching commentary, I tried my hand at insurance, I tried my hand at foreign currency and I didn't love any of it. And my wife got rather angry with me and said right, you need to find something you're passionate about. And I said eating and drinking. Eating and drinking was barbecue school.

Dan 2:58

I say nobody knows how to barbecue in the UK, but barbecuing. In the UK people tend to pre-cook the chicken in the oven before they plonk it on the on the barbecue. They burn the sausages. They get horrible patties from the supermarket. I wanted to educate people so and you know all the time it shouldn't be stressful. You can cook anything on a grill that you can cook in a kitchen, and I wanted to share my love of the alfresco dining and real fire cooking with everybody else. So hence we opened Hoggy's Grill.

Owen 3:31

Was Hoggy's Grill always kind of first in mind when you were going through that? You know what am I going to do next after after those series of things. Was it just barbecue school? Or did you not think about catering or chefing? Or was it just straight to teaching people?

Dan 3:45

No, not at all. So again, it was like leaving school. So you retire from professional sport. It's like leaving school, but 40 years after, 30 years later, you haven't got any qualifications that are current or that people want. You've got an e-touch, you've got a driver. You don't know what to do with yourself. And when you're 17 and you've got a, an e-touch, you've got a drive, but you don't know what to do with yourself. And when you're 17 and you've left school, you can jump and up, up and down ladders and change career paths.

Dan 4:12

I didn't know what to do with myself at all. Um, I was coming in hour and about a barbecue school. Um, we said, right, well, you want to do it, let's do it. We didn't know where to do it. So we had a word with the local butchers who had the lambing sheds that we were going to convert into a barbecue school. They wanted a little bit too much control. So, chance meeting at a Christmas party with a garden centre Said right, you need to meet these guys. They've got a garden centre, they know you from your cricketing days. Garden centre said, right, you need to meet these guys. They've got a garden centre, they, they know you from your cricketing days and they're willing to put Hoggy's Grill School at the garden centre. So we said, right, let's go for it. And we we had maybe a year of finding the barbecue school and we opened up in 2020, just in time to shut up.

Dan 5:05

Oh yeah, that's that must have been a pretty stressful time uh, it was, and when we went to the garden center, it was a nursery. They sold plants, they had a small cafe, um, and we were at the back of the the nursery. We were in a long polytunnel and behind us were fields and then butler water and it was a lovely spot, had a fantastic view, um, but it was just a nursery, just a plant selling nursery, and the garden center invested a lot of money and now I am in a fucker garden center. It is really posh. They have a, a restaurant called the view, overlooking the water. Um, it is lush. It is one of the nicest garden centers in in the um in rutland, and it's not the best garden center in nutland. Uh, and it is now really posh and I'm stuck on the end. But we opened.

Dan 6:12

We opened up in then in a um, in a building site, so we opened up just in time for covid. Then we had restrictions, then we had the cost of living crisis. Then we had a building site. People have to go into the hoggy's grill with a hard cut on to get through the building site, to get into hoggy's grill before they'll have to take it off. Um, it was. So. The last three, four years have been deadly because everything's contrived to against us and saying, right then, you're not doing this, um, but we're still here, we're still, we don't owe any money, we're still going and we're really lucky that it's a family business. So my wife does all the admin and the hard things, um, like the organization, everything else. I rock up and cook and entertain the guests, and our son helps with entertaining the guests and washing. So it's a real family affair. We've been really lucky that our, our um, our garden center and people that let us there looked after us during covid.

Dan 7:14

So if people weren't in we didn't have to pay. It wasn't a fixed rent, we only paid some of the people that came in. And we decided that we we were going to open a shop, but then we didn't have the capital to put in all the all the stock. So we then said, right, we'll open the school until we get the capital to open. And we were going to drop ship. But drop ship, we have covid and all the big people said, right, we don't want any more stock. If it's not on the water, we're not taking any more stock. If it's not on the water, we're not taking any more stock. So then we had the backlog of you can't get grills in the UK because everybody bought a grill in the start of COVID.

Dan 7:51

Then you saw you couldn't drop ship. So our business model has split and flipped very, very regularly. But luckily we've only got Sarah and I in the company and she tells me what we are doing.

Dan 8:07

So it's nice and easy. We don't have to go to committees, we don't have to take too long in making decisions. We said we weren't going to do outside catering and now outside catering are the things that we do. We go out and cater. I love outside catering. So from what we thought it was going to be to what it actually is now is completely different, but it's a rollercoaster and I've loved every minute of it.

Owen 8:34

I suppose that's part of an agile business nowadays, isn't it as well, being able to kind of pivot to do different things.

Dan 8:44

But it just sounds like and for people watching this on perhaps youtube rather than listening, but you can definitely see, just when you're talking about it, the passion that that comes through, even though all of the things that you've had to do during the last few years of, like you said, covid cost of living, all those things, you're still smiling when you're talking to us about it yeah, um, we had an amazing day yesterday with andrew peace wines and we had influence here then and just, we do kids eat free burger classes and pizza classes, and it's just the enjoyment of people that come to the grill that don't normally cook, they don't cook inside, um, in the kitchen and they come and you're getting prepping food, you get them cooking food and you get them eating it and when they taste it and go, wow, this is amazing, and they say thank you so much. Well, I've done nothing. All I've done is shout at you. I mean, I'm just told you to watch from scratch, cook everything from scratch, and to hear people say do you know what? This is the best food that they're not not just that they've cooked, but they've eaten and it.

Dan 9:52

It brings a smile to my face and it's that, that whole ethos of knowing where your food's coming from, what's in your food and you cooking your food, and the enjoyment we've had people come to the grill and that are strangers and have organized holidays together before they've left. I'm thinking, well, that is the power of food in general. But sitting out, sitting around preparing food, cooking over a real fire, there's something neanderthalic about it. There's something really nice about just cooking good food or fires and people come together and have a fantastic time it must have been so fun to plan out the cooking space of the school where you even start.

Hoggy 10:34

Oh, you think we planned it, but thinking about you've got us all wrong thinking about what I want people cooking, on what I want to be teaching, on how many of them do I want what's the setup going to look like? All of that must have been something I mean I know I would love doing that yeah, so.

Barbecue School and Community Interaction

Dan 10:53

So again, everything was organic. Um, because we we did it on a shoestring, um, we we have to speak nicely to some barbecue companies and said you know, we want to use your equipment. But what, what can we have? Um, and it's gone from maybe two or three grills and two, we've got a myriad of different grills now.

Dan 11:15

Um, I'm a big fan of kj. Um, we use a lot of comado joe and masterbuilt. We've got tragers, we've got somerset grills, we've got offset smokers, we've got pks, we've got fire pits. Um, you name it, we seem to have it. Um, but we always seem to. But people always seem to come back to these sort of like ceramic way of cooking and the kjs and the versatility of kjs. And I mean we, the day yesterday we were cooking yorkshire pud and people say you can't cook Yorkshire puddings on a grill. I said well, I'm from Yorkshire, where there's will, there's a way he can take the man out of Yorkshire, but not Yorkshire out of the man. So we were making Yorkshire puddings and sirloin steaks with a bit of chimichurri sauce and some canapes.

Owen 12:11

Just to open people's eyes and people going wow, yorkshire puddings on a grill, you can bake cakes on a grill, you can do anything on a grill, and do you? Do you find that a lot of people that are coming to the school, uh, are complete novices when it comes to barbecue? Or do you get quite a good range of people that perhaps have a grill and they've delved into a little bit more? Or to some people that, like me, that have got about 10 and just immerse themselves into it all the time?

Dan 12:29

so I go everything, every spectrum. You get people that don't even know how to cut up an onion, um, to people that have 10 grills um, with the 10 grills. It's lovely to just bounce ideas off people and say have you tried this, have you done that?

Dan 12:43

um, I did this the other day and that worked really well. Have you dropped a little bit of hickory on that? So there's so many different things that you learn off each other, and I think that is the fantastic thing about the barbecue community. Everybody's really friendly. Everybody is so free with their information. Everybody just wants to eat great food and pass the joy on of smoking, open fire cooking and grilling out alfresco.

Owen 13:14

So you mentioned, obviously, about the kids' eat-free classes that you've done around burgers and pizzas. I think you've kind of been doing that across the summer, haven't you? Yes, in the summer holidays and that in itself must be quite rewarding, just kind of trying to get the next generation into A being able to cook and be more independent, but actually understanding how cooking over fire works and actually it's not a scary thing at all.

Dan 13:43

Yeah, just be in charge of your own destiny, because, I say right, it doesn't matter what your mum and dad like. This is about what you're eating. You're cooking it, you're making it, you're eating it, so don't come in with any free ideas. We've had kids put maple syrup on their burgers and in their burgers Not for me, but the kids love it. We always had people sugaring sugaring their burgers, but eating it.

Dan 14:10

Um, I'm not a fan um, but I wouldn't I wouldn't have said you know what, let's try maple syrup on this burger. But the kids. If the kids are smiling, if the kids are loving it, if the kids say I cannot wait to make burgers again, then that's half the the job done people, to get kids interactive in what they want to eat, how they're eating, what flavors are actually going into their food, giving them the opportunity to cook for themselves. We've had little eight-year-olds that cook for the family and say I made a spag bowl last night. It melts my heart that you get the next generation actually wanting to cook for other people.

Dan 14:52

I don't know why. I think it stems about from seeing my son feed for the first time. I saw him feed for the first time and I was in bits. I love being a feeder, I love giving people food and seeing the smiles on their faces and nine times out of ten I'm done with it. Done with eating. I I don't eat. I just love people enjoying their own food and having the opportunity to make decent food on a grill. But in fact I don't even care if it's on a grill. I just like people enjoying decent food and cooking their own food and knowing where that food's come from.

Hoggy 15:31

On that point, the meat that you use in the school. Where do you source that from, and is that similar to what you're cooking with at home, when you're cooking for yourself as well?

Dan 15:42

Yeah, so we use Gary Simpson, our simpson's butchers. Um. He's award winning. He's twice won britain's best butcher shop. Um he's local. He's in stanford, which is 10-15 minutes away from the grill school, so I can whatsapp him the day before when I've forgotten everything I've forgotten xyz or you know, sometimes I've forgotten X, y, z, or you know, sometimes I'm organized for the day, but it's so versatile.

Dan 16:10

He's got so many different products and ranges and the meat that we get he knows exactly where it's from, he knows exactly where it's been eaten, you know where it was slaughtered, you know how long he's had it. It comes to us in the fridge and it's always fresh because it's so local um and after. But if you use great products to start with, that's half the battle. It's harder to to mess up. Um great products, um uh. But equally, I've had, I have had the odd, I've forgotten everything. I need to go to Aldi on the way in and I've cooked things from Aldi and the clients have said you know what? This is the best things we've eaten. I said, well, I've got a confession.

Hoggy 16:54

They're from Aldi.

Dan 16:56

And for our fish and our seafood and our scallops and our prawns we use a fish-rich company from Nottingham which, again, is nice and close. I know we're nowhere near the sea, um, in fact, uh, leicester is the middle of the country that's furthest away from the sea. Um, but to have people going to to grooms and bidocks in the morning and bringing you fresh fish and there's so many times we're halfway through the morning and we're having lemon sole or we're having place for lunch and it's not there yet and they come in and they bring it in from the van, fresh from the van, and say you know fresh this, Just bring some dogs in here and get fresh from that. So yeah, it's really nice. We've got some really good suppliers. They've looked after those really well and I love having local relationships.

Owen 17:49

I think that's definitely key, isn't it? Do you find the social element you mentioned, obviously back in South, when you were living in South Africa, and you're having the brides, the social element, beer or not, just kind of getting together around? There's not a lot about grilling.

Dan 18:12

It's almost illegal to grill without a beer or a drop of wine in your hand.

Owen 18:19

Yes, I think it's unwritten, but pretty much it is a rating. No, no, I was just going to say about the social aspect. Yeah, and do you try and bring us? How does that kind of work, with perhaps a group of strangers that are coming together, how do you kind of get them to, like you said, book holidays by the end of it, what does it experience really?

Dan 18:43

yeah, so I am, I hate rules, I hate regulations I hate being told what to do and I hate rules.

Dan 18:49

I hate regulations. I hate being told what to do. I like fun, I like interaction, I like being in charge of what I'm doing. So, although there are guidelines and saying right, then, this is what we're eating, like a salsa, right, I'm not going to tell you how to make a salsa. If you want a spicy salsa we've got some chilies I suggest you put two chilies in. If you don't like chilies, don't put chilies in.

Dan 19:14

If you like coriander, let's zest it out with coriander. If you don't like coriander, you think it tastes as soft. We've got some parsley. We've got some chives. Don't put coriander and to have people. This is about your taste buds, not my taste buds. This isn't about me dictating to you how you should have a meal, how, uh, what you're putting in your, in your food. We'll give you the main main ingredients and then I'll tell you if you like it. You'll stay medium rare. It's three minutes. If you like it, or if you like it very serious, you let me do it. So if you like it over that, you it. If you like it over that, you can leave. There's all.

Dan 19:54

I try and make it fun. I try and like. It's not a stuffy atmosphere, it is about enjoyment. It is, and food does that to people and I don't. If I went to a course I would hate to watch somebody else cook, because I'd go to a course and I'd want to be hands-on, I'd want to be doing the cooking. I wouldn't want to watch them cook and then go home try and replicate that. So everything is. We I'll make the start up, so I make little nibbles to start with, so they'll come in at 10 o'clock they'll have a nibble that we've already, we've already made. Then I don't prep, I don't touch, I do absolutely bugger all except for make their experience hopefully fun, enjoyable. And they do all the prep, all the cooking and all the eating.

Dan 20:45

Well, maybe, I need some food afterwards. But it is a hands-on. You, the guests, do all the work, they do all the prep, they do all the cooking, they do all the eating. We just supply the, the soft drinks, the teas, the coffees, the, the alcohol and just try and get everybody to have a fantastic time and an enjoyable experience.

Hoggy 21:13

You're right, the hands-on technique, from learning and cooking yourself. You pick up so much more from that because if you're just watching someone for half an hour, an hour, you're not getting the feel, the touch, the way that meat bends, and when it's cooking and things you know. All of that you're not. You're not getting through when you develop. I know no planning, as I said, but as you're learning and teaching, is it going on? Is your technique and how you're teaching people changing over time?

Dan 21:41

Yeah, obviously, if you don't progress, if you don't improve, you're standing still. When you go back to sport and everything else and coaching, the everything progresses through the thing, you're always learning, you're always picking up little things, you're always developing your skills and you don't want to be stagnant. Um, you, you're trying little things every time you're changing the menu. Um, and it's you'll, you'll pick up little things from on this, from customers said you, I could have done that better. And next week you implement that and I've got a 17-year-old son who does a lot of the classes, who's not backwards in coming forwards, and he will tell me you know, this is what we should be doing, we should be doing and suggestive hint it. And you listen to your clients, you listen to how they've enjoyed it and you want to improve every time. I'm not an arrogant little bar humble that says right, this is the only thing that we're doing, this is how we're doing it and this is always going to be how we do things. So we try and bend and be really flexible.

Owen 22:55

So you know, you were sort of saying about kind of being flexible to what they want in terms of, like you said, if you don't want chilies, don't have chilies. If you want, you know, coriander, etc. Is that kind of the same in terms of equipment. So if someone wants to use the traeger, they use the traeger. If they want to use a kj or a pizza oven, or even if they're not cooking pizza, do you kind of allow that flexibility as well?

Dan 23:15

correct. Um, because the whole, the whole element of Hoggy's Grill is you know, come in and experience different things. If you haven't, if you've got a commando, if you've got a flail oven, you you can by all means. If you want to experiment and use different ones, I will suggest that. You know, the Traegers are fantastic for smoking, slow cooking, not fantastic for searing Masturbates, exactly the same. I will explain to them how each grill works, what the benefits are of each grill. We'll explain the menu to them. If they're right, then what we're cooking I'll give them the option. Sometimes people will email in before and say, right, then I have a KJ, so can I do all my cooking on a KJ? You get other people that come in saying I'll cook on gas and I want to really cook on gas, and then you explain how easy everything else works and they go maybe I want to use real fire today.

Owen 24:17

So we do do not swearing, but we do have gas.

Dan 24:19

We'll cut that out we have gas bottles but they're not normally full. People go and if people are adamant they want to come use gas. Then we'll go to the gas shop and we'll get some gas. But the whole ethos of Hoggy's Grill is cooking on real life fire and smoke and opening people's hearts how easy it is.

Dan 24:44

So just to get a KJ from 0 to 200 degrees you know it's 17 minutes and you say it's not 17 in 17 minutes you can get a kj from no charcoal to 200 degrees ready for your, your options, for your hassle back to to hold it and 20 minutes. And they say don't you have to light it three hours in advance. And you don't know you don't have to light charcoal three hours in back. And in fact if you only use a chimney starter, if you're using decent quality lumpwood charcoal, you can be cooking quicker than on a gas barbecue. Because when you turn on the gas you have to wait for all the the metal to heat up. So when the fat drips down it turns into gas and goes back into you, into your food or to stop you having the the fires With charcoal. Your fat drops down, it turns into nice flavours and comes back up and you don't have to light it three hours in advance. You can be 20 minutes before you're cooking on charcoal.

The Art of Barbecuing and Patience

Hoggy 25:43

So it's just opening people's eyes of how easy charcoal is to use if you have the right techniques and the right yeah, chimney starters for anyone listening, who has never listened to this podcast before and was maybe hoping to hear more about 2005, um, I would say, from an ease perspective, a chimney starter and a meat thermometer are the two essential accessories for any barbecuing, but they're a great starting point as well. If you're a bit intimidated because it just takes all of the pain out any barbecuing, but they're a great starting point as well. If you're a bit intimidated because it just takes all of the pain out of barbecuing, ah, what's pain in?

Dan 26:18

barbecuing.

Dan 26:21

I'm not saying that, no, there's no pain in barbecuing. It's lovely, but, yeah, meat thermometers are a must. It turns everybody into an instant better cook. And that implies in your cooker as well, because you'll get a chicken from a supermarket. It'll tell you that you need to cook it for two hours at 220 degrees and blah, blah, blah. If you use a meat probe, you'll find out that you know he's cooked after an hour and a half. He doesn't need the two hours and they're giving you two hours to make sure that their backsides are covered and so everything's overcooked. Um, but as soon as you start using temperature probes and cooking to temperature, not to time, you find you meat is so tasty and juicy, not overcooked, and it takes all the guesswork out. You don't have to chop it in half and see how it's doing to let all the juices run out. You know exactly exactly when things are cooked and you can wow your guests while enjoying, enjoying life and relaxing.

Dan 27:30

But I think the biggest mistake that people make when they have barbecues if you went round to a friend's house and you were saying, right, we're having a dinner party and you're sat inside in the dining room, you have one starter, you have one main course and you have one dessert, all cooked in the kitchen. The person that cooks, always cooks, knows how to cook, has done the menu. You then say oh, do you know what? It's a nice day, let's have a barbecue. So you buy three different starters, you buy three different main courses and you buy two desserts. You buy three starters that are cooked in different ways and at different temperature and different techniques. The three main courses are cooked at different ways and at different temperature and different techniques. The three main courses are cooked at different times and different temperature and different techniques.

Dan 28:17

You give it to the person that doesn't cook normally and only cooks twice a year when the sun's out and they go out and light their grill. They don't have a freaking clue how to cook and don't wonder why it's stressful Now. So keep it simple, keep it nice and easy, keep people wanting more. Um, it is to me a so easy to say why do we complicate things when it comes to you and people don't use the direction I know you'll have talked about it all the time the direct and indirect. They won't use the lids, they won't, they don't use the right techniques and wonder why things are stressful and why they start wasting beer by chugging beers and wines over the flames that they're getting out because the fatty food is dripping onto the charcoal, their bile easy like charcoal, it's pumped full of petroleum and then sprayed with fire retardant.

Dan 29:08

Wondered why they smelled like chemicals and that's why we opened up a school to say you know what? It's so easy and so it should be so easy and relaxing using using them that's, yeah, funny enough I was.

Owen 29:26

I was kind of going to bring up the kind of petroleum based fire lighters and charcoal and just how bad they are.

Dan 29:37

You know, you know when you go around people's houses and you know you get the little white blocks that you just it's so yeah, and the easy light charcoal that's pumped full of petroleum products and then it says wait for 20 minutes because you can smell. Once you've lit it, you can smell the chemicals coming off it and I've got a big job, which is big. It is a huge barbecue. It takes a lot of charcoal and when you put your charcoal in I'm a big fan of low baltic single species bird charcoal whack it in one fire lighter that you put into like a woody and that you're using your burner stoves one fire lighter in the middle to start the fire. When it 17 minutes later it's at 200 degrees and people that, yeah, but you didn't use any fire lighters, you didn't use. Or you use one fire light. You didn't use any squirty crap, you didn't use anything else. It's one fire light to charcoal around it. You set it up, it gets to 200 degrees and 70 and people go, wow, and that's a huge cage. The smaller cage will take less time. So it's opening people's eyes to how easy grilling can be if you buy the right charcoal, and that's one of my biggest bull bears is your charcoal.

Dan 31:06

A barbecue is a sealed container. It holds charcoal. Therefore, the charcoal is the most important thing that you buy. It could be made out of steel, concrete, ceramic, iron. It's just an enclosed chamber to hold your charcoal. Therefore, your charcoal gives you your heat, gives you the flavors, and it is the thing that makes your cooking experience good or bad. So if the biggest thing that you take away from this podcast is invest in some decent lumpwood charcoal, If you've been looking or thinking about an outdoor kitchen, then look no further than AOS Outdoor Kitchens.

Hoggy 31:51

They are the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation.

Owen 31:52

Further nao-esque outdoor kitchens they are the south's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists their extensive showroom is based just outside bournemouth on the dorset hampshire border and, as well as numerous in-store displays, also features a live outdoor kitchen where they cook every week on comando grills, pizza ovens, and all filmed and shown on youtube they offer a wealth of knowledge on how to transform your patio into the most incredible outdoor dining area, with styles and options to suit every budget, and you can guarantee they will be able to create something perfectly suited to you and your home.

Owen 32:24

They stock and supply everything that you're going to need for outdoor cooking, including barbecues, kamado ovens, pizza ovens, outdoor fridges and every accessory that you would need to become the ultimate outdoor chef.

Hoggy 32:38

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Owen 32:49

Visit aoskitchenscouk. Yeah, we've had a couple of episodes before where we've actually dedicated them to charcoal and just about how you know proper good charcoal is made, and you know, just because you're right, it's so essential, um, but typically it's like you said, twice a year when we've had the sun out, uh, you nip to your local supermarket, get the 2.99 bag that's at the front of the store and, uh, and end up using that. And I also find that still even going to barbecues now, even though I think we have come along along in our barbecue journey. Generally in the uk everyone chucks everything on at once, it's all cooked once, whereas you gotta it's gotta be like get it out over three or four hours and just do little bits and pieces patience yeah, patience is the key and you know what patience gives you more time to drink exactly that.

The Joy of Barbecuing and Patience

Dan 33:48

So when somebody asks you how long would you cook this piece of meat 10 beers I say how long, how long you got, because how long you've got is how long it will take me to cook that piece of meat because you have so much more time to get slated into that piece of meat. You're not rushing it, you're not making it close like, yeah, your patience. To me is the the buzzword. You don't have to be ready in 10 minutes. And if you want a, if you, if you're cooking a big piece of meat, if you're cooking a brisket, if you're not getting you want, you need to rest. So if you're inviting guests around at two o'clock, ready for two o'clock because even if you plan to get your meat ready for two o'clock, you'll hit that stall point. It won't get, it won't be cooked at two o'clock, you'll go past it. You'll people be stressing because they came around to eat at two o'clock. It's not ready. You're turning the heat up, you're now rushing it.

Dan 34:48

You ruin the cook. You then say oh, it's ready. Now you take it straight out. You start slicing it. All the juices run out and you know it's a bit tough, it's a bit dry and you you ruin the experience where I say, well, I'm getting people around at two o'clock, well, let's get it ready for at least 12 o'clock, if not before, and let it rest. Let it rest, let's suck up the again. So when you're carving it, you've got no stress because your food's already ready. You're now just cooking the secondary bits. Your main superstar ingredient is already cooked. It's resting. If it's a brisket or a pulled pork, it's now in the cool box. You did it four hours before. It's now just ticking over. You did it four hours before it's now just ticking over and you've got no rest whatsoever because you know that the superstar of your ingredient is ready and all you have to do is take it out and carve it. To try and get it ready at the time that your guests arrive is absolutely not on?

Hoggy 35:53

No, it's ridiculous. And also, you miss out. You miss out on the joy of half-cut cooking. I like to call it at like half 11 at night to midnight right like the barbecue now get, get everything on correct, and it's so fun. It's so fun to do that you know and you can impart so much more flavors.

Dan 36:15

So I I had a guy come around and the other day he said, right, we're doing pulled pork. Um, I'm going to get up early and put my full pork on. And I said why? He said, well, I need to get up at six just to get my full pork on. So it's ready. I said, yeah, but why you're using a trigger?

Dan 36:34

Put it on overnight, man, get it on at 90 degrees overnight. It's not going to overcook because you're at 90 degrees. You, your pork, wants to get to 95 degrees before we're going to pull it and everything, so you can put it on in the morning before you go to bed. You can check it on your phone, you can make sure that everything's tickety-boo. And he texted me. He said you know, I had an 18 hour cook at 19 degrees and it was absolutely banging and it took all the the stress out of getting up early, because nobody likes getting up early. Um, relaxing, relaxing, having a lovely cook, getting as many flavours as you can, spritzing, it's just patience. The longer you have to cook, the longer you take.

Owen 37:27

So I think it's quite appropriate, Hoggy, that whilst you've been imparting all of those tips, that we kind of flip it on its head now and talk about some of the barbecue fails. That's one of the things that we hold very dear on the podcast how long we got, as long as you've got patience we want to hear the stories.

Dan 37:46

Of course, patience is the key. And the fails? Where do we go? First, you failed at everything. When you start your barbecuing journey, you fail a lot of the time. You don't set fire to. You know we smoke, not letting enough air in, not getting the fire started, so everything's so acid and horrible and smoky and you take a bite and you go. I can't eat that. It's absolutely amazing.

Hoggy 38:13

It's just like so you overcook things and you take a bite and you go I can't eat that.

Dan 38:14

It's absolutely amazing. It just tastes like suck. You overcook things and you say I've done burnt belly pork ends. Yeah, excellent, they are burnt. They're like freaking good. They're not succulent, they're not juicy. You've cooked them far too long. They're just crunchy in my mouth and horrible. The list goes on and on you. You take chicken off with before before temperature was a a big thing. You say, right, I always cooked it. Right. You open it up and it's raw.

Dan 38:45

Uh, you, on your barbecuing journey, you will have failed so many times, um, but if you're not failing, you're not progressing. If you don't, but, and then you learn, you get taught, um, in a sporting environment that you need a safe environment to progress. That you know. If you're not failing, you're not progressing, you're sat in a comfort. So it's same with same with anything in life. If you're just sat in one zone and doing things that are comfortable, that you can do in your sleep, day in, day out, then you're not going. You're never going to get better and daring to. I mean, I've failed with briskets. I've had briskets that you try and cook, you it got and you're going. I might need a saw because they're super tough. And now am I allowed to swear yeah.

Hoggy 39:45

I'm going to tell you that I think brisket's overrated. Wow, I agree, I think it's a fun thing to cook, but if you're just talking about beef for a starting point, I've said many times on here, I think beef ribs are the better option.

Dan 39:56

Personally, short beef ribs. But it's brisket's a cheap cut of meat and you have to cook it a long time because you know it is a cheap cut of meat. Um, and I don't like long cooked, slow cooked beef. I I don't like stew. I don't like long cooked, slow cooked beef. I don't like stew. I don't like long cooked, slow cooked beef. Um, I'm much more of a fan of a pork or a lamb that's been long cooked, slow cooked. Um, but the fantastic thing is horses, of course is that everybody has an opinion and some other people that jar, not beef. The brisket is the best thing that's since sliced bread. Um, so I I'm not going to tell you not to cook it, I'm just saying that I find that I've I've tried brisket and I've put brisket where it's bendy. You push it, it comes out all juicy and everything, and to me it tastes like a cheap cut. I've waited, I say I've wasted. I've cooked it for 20 hours, 24 hours, I've cooked it, so it's perfect and I still haven't enjoyed the eating experience.

Owen 41:01

I've sliced it and gone you know what?

Dan 41:03

You know what? I'd rather have a tomahawk, a reverse tomahawk, than this piece of brisket. I'd rather have a rib eye steak. I'd rather have a different cut of meat to brisket. But it is horses for courses and that's why cooking is fantastic. Nobody has the same taste buds. Nobody can tell you what you like and what you don't like, and that's what we try and practice.

Hoggy 41:28

On that point, then we've talked a lot about different kind of cuts and everything. What is your favourite thing to barbecue? If no one else was around you you weren't doing it for anyone else, just for yourself what would you cook?

Dan 41:40

What day of the week is it A drinking day? My whole ethos is that everything tastes better on a barbecue. So, from a cooked breakfast bacon, sausages, eggs everything else tastes better on the grill. Your pork, your steak, your ribs, your chicken everything tastes better on a grill. And your chili, your flank steak chili that you've dropped tastes better on a grill, on a grill, um, and even left, I think leftovers you can eat.

Dan 42:21

I think leftover barbecue food you can taste so much more smoke and so much more flavors that intensify in the fridge overnight. I'm going to say leftover absolutely one of my favorite things, things to eat. But I've avoided your question there, haven't I? What am I cooking?

Owen 42:35

That was like a politician's answer, yeah.

Dan 42:39

But everything is my answer. It would most probably be a nice reverse seared tomahawk steak.

Owen 42:47

I do love a bit.

Dan 42:48

Or a bit of lamb. I love pork Fish. I mean Prawns, lobster, stop it Everything. Oh, pork fish, prawns, lobster, stop it Everything.

Owen 43:04

Perhaps, we should turn it around and say, apart from brisket, what wouldn't you cook on the barbecue? What just don't you enjoy cooking?

Dan 43:12

Let's try and narrow that down.

Dan 43:19

Nothing. I love a challenge, challenge. I love the challenge. So I've made cakes on the grill. I'm I've already told you I make puddings on the grill. There's nothing we've had. We've had um chefs that have come in for development, chefs that have made souffles in a grill. There is nothing you can't cook on a grill that you can in a kitchen. You just need to have the right technique and the confidence, and one of the biggest thing I try and give our is the confidence, the confidence to go out and try things. Because you say, if you sit in your little comfort zone and you keep on cooking your sausages and your burgers, you're not going to get any better.

Dan 43:57

So go out and say you know what? Let's practice, let's have the confidence to put our decent cups of meat, potatoes, everything else on the grill. Sometimes you'll fail. Everybody fails with grilling. Everybody's failed in a kitchen. So the reward that you get for succeeding outside with charcoal, with smoke, with wood, is that the flavors that you impart are so much better than putting it in an electric oven in your kitchen or cooking it in a frying pan. So confidence, have a. Go and experiment and enjoy your failures. But other than that, you're going to enjoy your success so much more.

Owen 44:45

I think this is a really opportune moment to go into barbecue bingo, talking about ingredients and challenging yourself. So what I want to do is I'm going to share my screen. Hopefully you'll be able to see. We've got a spinning wheel. We paid a lot of money for this Hoggy.

Dan 45:04

It looks like you have the graphics. They're amazing.

Owen 45:07

I know I'll tell my daughter. She was on it for weeks.

Dan 45:13

I might need to go to Specsavers because I can't read that.

Hoggy 45:15

That's alright, damned out. Yeah, dammed out, do you?

Dan 45:20

know what. I'll trust you.

Hoggy 45:22

So the other reason I read it out is because the people who are listening rather than watching it. So we've got this large wheel in front of us with lots of different ingredients on that have been left now what are? The different colours. The different colours are the fact that it labels it different colours, so apparently it's easier to read when they're next to each other.

Dan 45:39

Nothing to do with the type of food.

Owen 45:41

It's not we're not that sophisticated, you're not that sophisticated okay.

Hoggy 45:48

I'm pretty sure, if you check you can't spell, you know what that's, that's about as slow as my bowling now. So some of the bits that we've got on there. We've got tripe kangaroo beef neck and do your sausage Andouille, sausage, vindaloo paste octopus pineapple monkfish chicken hearts duck. Szechuan pepper paella and something on there which we haven't discussed yet, which is called my signature dish. So if it lands on that, it's up to you what you cook, what are you best known for?

Dan 46:35

That's cheating. I'm best known for nothing because I cook everything you cook everything then for us.

Hoggy 46:45

Yeah, one of everything. Let's deal with that bridge. If it lands on it, shall we Right, let's give it a spin. Oh, so you're obviously here we go.

Dan 47:00

Oh the anticipation you can see.

Owen 47:01

I'm nervous. Here comes the fastball.

Dan 47:04

Yeah, go on. Then it's going backwards and forwards. Oh, it's red, it's danger. Oh, it's Undea sausage. Ah, that's red, it's danger. Oh it's Undia sausage. Ah, that's boring.

Hoggy 47:17

Can we have another spin? Have another spin, if you want?

Owen 47:22

Yeah, all right, I'll give it another spin, why not?

Dan 47:23

Yeah, go on Sausage. We can cook sausage Undia, something like here oh, spicy sausage pasta, that sounds nice, beefneck Cool, let's do that.

Owen 47:38

Sounds good.

Dan 47:39

Let's do a beefneck.

Owen 47:41

And we'd love you to leave something, if you can, for, hopefully, another guest. Have you got anything that you'd like to put on here for us?

Dan 47:49

Yes, now I'm going to be nice, one of my favourite things to cook is scallops. Nice, can I put scallops on there? They're on.

Owen 48:07

Great, they're on there. So what are you thinking with beef neck? What's your first thoughts?

Dan 48:13

Obviously we're going to have to do it slow and low. Initial thing is tacos. Nice, we can make some nice fresh tacos out of there. We can make a nice chili. I do like a chili. I might slow braise it and smoke it and make a nice little chili out of it. I could slow cook it and make a lasagna um chili out of it. I could slow cook it and make a lasagna. That, oh, slow lasagna. I love a lasagna. I might slow cook my beef neck and pull it and make a beef lasagna.

Dan 48:47

I love a lasagna that sounds epic yeah, now do you know when you have leftover pulled pork, have you made a pulled pork lasagna?

Hoggy 48:56

I have not, I've not considered doing that. I've done it with like brisket and things in the past, but I've never gone to the pork side.

Dan 49:05

Oh, come to the dark side. Make a pulled pork lasagna. You will thank me later. It is delicious. I've made a lasagna where I've put black pudding as the first base, I'm up with that. I love a bit of black pudding I mean, it was very rich, but do you know what I like with black pudding mash? Black pudding mash oh yeah, I'll make it mixed in together.

Owen 49:32

yes, oh okay, nice, a bit of black pudding mash. Ooh oh, make it make it make it Mixed in together.

Dan 49:36

Yes, oh, okay, nice A bit of black pudding mash a little peppery in there, a little bit of nice richness in your mash oh that sounds good.

Owen 49:45

And you can do your trio with pork.

Dan 49:47

With that you you fix cheeks and you can make them down into a little sticky bonbon. You can go oh, stop it, it's a problem isn't it you?

Elevated Barbecue Techniques and Tips

Dan 49:58

just talk about food all the time, so hungry all the time. One of my favourites is pork belly. So you're brining it in your cider and everything all the flavours that you want to do that. Then you smoke it until it's nice and cooked, and then I squash it until it's nice and cooked and then I squash it for 24 hours so I press it in between two baking sheets. So the last one I put 25 kgs on it and pressed it and it comes out really thin and really dense and then you can slice it and then you can grill it back up and you you can get that really crackly because it's been smoked for for eight nine hours and it's nice and fresh.

Dan 50:42

You can slice it up and it's still melting your mouth. But so when you take it off and it's warm you it falls to pieces because you cooked, cooked it until it's so tender. But if you then squash it and refrigerate it, then the consistency hardens back up so you can get it into nice slices and you can portion it out, and that with black pudding mash and sticky pig's cheeks bonbons. Oh, it's bloody lovely. I would never think to do that with pork belly, but that sounds awesome cheese bonbons or it's bloody lovely.

Owen 51:15

I would never think to do that with pork belly.

Dan 51:16

But that sounds awesome.

Owen 51:18

Again, it seems like a long process but worth all the steps to get that end result.

Dan 51:23

So again, even with pork crackling, people say how do I get pork crackling? And you say well, do you know that supermarket pork that you buy on a Saturday, that's in the shrink wrap, that's really wet and horrible and you take it out 20 minutes before you're going to cook it, you ain't getting crappy.

Dan 51:43

You need to take it out at least two days. Make sure that you salt it and try and dry your skin out. And, even better, go to the sitting butchers, because we already said, the the better the products are, the easier it is to cook it. Go to the butchers who, when they display it, it's not shrink wrapped. They'll then put it in a plastic bag and they'll give it to you when you take it home. Take it out of that plastic bag and put it back in the fridge with some salt on it to dry that skin out, because if you haven't got dry skin, you're not going to get perfect.

Hoggy 52:17

We're coming towards the end now and I'm loving some of these tips that you've given us. Are there any other secret barbecue school hacks for getting the most out of cuts that maybe we haven't discussed yet? That blow people's minds when you tell them now?

Dan 52:37

there's so many that you off the cuff, you you don't think about and then you go. But one of the the bigger ones, have you made burnt belly pork heads? We're going back to I don't know why we've fixated on, on belly the burnt belly pork ends.

Dan 52:53

Have you gone to your butcher and said right then, I want some smoky bacon, but don't slice it. I want the cured belly. And make your burnt belly pork ends out of cured smoky bacon and you can have you. And you can make burnt belly pork ends out of smoked bacon, pure burnt belly they are just elevated to a different level. They are amazing.

Owen 53:27

I've never tried that, that sounds excellent.

Hoggy 53:32

I said one thing that we, you might go away, which is great, but yeah, the bacon, cured bacon, burnt belly pork absolutely fantastic so Owen's been curing his own bacon from time to time, so what I'd like you to do is cure and smoke some bacon for me, and I'll do it with your bacon and see how that comes out.

Dan 53:54

Oh that sounds good, that's a challenge challenge. So I'm going to be making some beef neck, you're going to be making some smoked bacon so we can um make some sounds good to me sounds good to me so Hoggy has said.

Owen 54:17

Obviously, dan said that we're kind of coming towards the end and just want to make sure is there anything else that we haven't kind of covered yet that you know you wanted to kind of get across in this episode and, of course, plug yourself, tell us where people can find you afterwards, of course obviously we're Hoggy's Grill.

Creative Ideas for Leftover Lamb

Dan 54:35

We're a barbecue school in Rutland, nicely easy to get to in the centre of the country. I run all the classes, so you get me. It's not a place where you rock up and you'll have any chef come in to do it. I run all the classes Other than that. No, I would suggest to people do your experiment, because some of the biggest mistakes I mean Guinness was a mistake. Somebody burnt the hops, turned it black, and how big is Guinness now? So you might make a huge mistake and go oh that's absolutely fantastic, I'm going to use that. So use good quality charcoal, use your lid, use a meat probe All the same thing that everybody tells you to do. But don't be afraid, have fun, be confident and don't be scared of making a mess up, because everybody messes right yeah I couldn't agree more.

Owen 55:37

There's some really good tips. Thank you very much. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure coming having you on the show. Genuinely lots of uh, lots of uh treasures there, but also some things that we're going to take away and and do ourselves. I really want to go at squishing that pork belly as well.

Dan 55:51

That between the sheets and make them um full pork lasagna. It is awesome yeah.

Hoggy 55:59

That'll be done, top of the list. Thank you so much, hogi. Thank you.

Owen 56:02

I literally did pulled pork yesterday as well. I have to go get some pulled pork.

Dan 56:06

Have you got any leftover?

Owen 56:07

No, I put them into a mac and cheese. We had a bit of an American sort of style thing, but yeah.

Dan 56:13

Okay, so, okay, so. So what do you do? So I'm gonna ask you, what do you do with your leftover lamb? So if you cook lamb and so you've tunnel burned a leg of lamb, you've packed it full of nice, nice flavors, you've cooked it medium rare, you're slicing it, you've got lamb left over. What do you do with your leftover lamb?

Hoggy 56:35

um, things that I've done with it. I like making almost like a cottage pie with it. That's just really really nice. Um, other things that I've actually passed through mashed potato before as well and almost almost had them in like a stew, as dumplings as part of a stew. Um, that's really nice. Um, sometimes I like to bring it back up to temperature in kind of stock and then just have it as kind of the main meat as part of a meal. Uh, what else have I done it? Done with it Kind of in a pasta dish as well, more with its own kind of juices and tossed with tagliatelle that sort of stuff.

Dan 57:12

It's just the lamb. Is the the one meat that you get? That's cold, you know. Let's wise it up and make a shepherd's pie. That's what I normally do with it. I was just wondering what could I be doing with leftover lamb rather than shepherd's pie.

Dan 57:30

But I'm liking wising it up and making potato rosties out of it. I've been saying you know what? We're going to have lamb roasties. That might work quite nicely, but it's just bouncing out. The thing is that you bounce ideas off people and somebody will say, ah, have you tried it? And that's what I love about the BBQ community everybody has done something and tried something that you got. Ah, I want to cook that next. And it's just an ever-evolving landscape that everybody's so happy to share. Well, most people are happy to share and it's just a fantastic place to be.

Hoggy 58:13

Yeah, and on the point of lamb, my favorite way to barbecue lamb is a butterfly leg. I just think that's so, so good. It allows you to get more without over-smoking it. More smoke across, more of a surface area as well. I just find that comes out so nicely. People listening who haven't tried that, go and try it.

Dan 58:33

Yeah, so we have arguments when we come to lamb at home. So Sarah likes fall off the bone, keep it on there. I want, you want, to pull the bone out. It'd be nice and clean. Pull the back lap so moroccan style. Yeah, ernie, and I like pink. Yeah, and when we do lamb, I like to tunnel bone it. So you like to tunnel bone it. So you like to butterfly it and get more surface area. I love to tunnel bone it so we don't butterfly it. We can then pull the bone out and then stuff the lamb with a lot of flavor and then put that as a joint and then you can slice all the way through without the bones, and I love lamb, but it's the leftover lamb that we struggle with. If you had um, crispy, crispy beef from I call it cardboard beef in the chinese- yeah um, the crispy chili beef.

Dan 59:32

So we do that with the lamb. So if we've got it, we slice it up and we make crispy chili lamb rather than the beef, and it tastes less like cardboard. So I don't like crispy chili beef, but my missus loves it, and so we make crispy chili lamb, uh, which which is really nice, but it's it's asking people what the what they do, and picking their brains and nicking their ideas and then passing them off as your own two weeks later.

Hoggy 1:00:03

The other thing we do, which I haven't mentioned actually, is dice it up and then have it in an orzo, but almost cook it a bit like a paella, and finish it off with feta as well. Oh, I love that. So good, that is very, very nice. Oh, and toasted pine nuts as well. So you no, I love a bit of feta. So good, that is Very, very nice. Oh, and toasted pine nuts as well. So you've got a bit of different crunches and stuff.

Dan 1:00:22

That's really good, I love cashew nuts. I love a bit of toasted cashew nuts to whack in there.

Owen 1:00:27

Yes, I have no ideas for lamb because I just never cook it. I just cut them out on this one.

Dan 1:00:41

But lamb tacos would seem like a good way to use up leftovers. Yeah, a bit of shit. No, no, no. Lamb tacos. Lamb fajitas, lamb fajitas yeah, it's just. Yeah, I don't like lamb Hoggy I can't get on with it. Can you not? Not even a whole crusted rack of lamb.

Owen 1:00:56

I can't. I've tried lamb so many times different ways. I just can't get on with it. I don't know if we can be friends anymore. It's been emotional, though it's been emotional.

Hoggy 1:01:07

Huge disappointment Every single day.

Dan 1:01:11

I have to speak to him.

Owen 1:01:17

Well-cooked lamb is absolutely fantastic. I want to like it so much because it does obviously look really nice and there's some fantastic recipes.

Dan 1:01:24

Well, to be fair, I told you I don't like brisket.

Owen 1:01:28

Yeah.

Dan 1:01:29

So we're sharing. We are we are sharing, I think, because we can share our dislikes, we can just concentrate on our likes and make them super likes and make them better. Yeah, like your bacon, burnt belly pork ends.

Barbecue Passion With Hoggy

Hoggy 1:01:48

I think you need to both go away and have a word with yourselves about how you're acting, and then I can do that. Hoggy, thank you so much for coming on, and I'm sure that we'll see you out in the wilderness at some point as well, at different events and things like that. I look forward to it. So, yeah, thank you so much for coming on, no worries.

Dan 1:02:11

Thank you for having us.

Owen 1:02:14

That's it for another episode of the Meat and Greet Barbecue Podcast. Thanks so much to Hoggy. It was great to chat to him and talk to him about his clear passion for barbecue, cooking outside and great quality produce. Hopefully you picked up some tips there. We certainly did, and until next time, keep on grilling. Today's episode is brought to you by AOS kitchens, the south's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists.