Fire, Music, And Meat: DJ BBQ’s Journey

A food truck, a festival stage, and a sword stacked with sizzling meat—DJ BBQ shows how live-fire cooking becomes unforgettable when craft meets theatre. We dive into his story from early days on the Jamie Oliver network to building a mobile pit operation that feeds tens of thousands, all while sharing the techniques that make barbecue consistent and crowd-pleasing. Think precise temperature zones, the confidence to probe to target, and the art of trusting the rest so joints finish tender, not tough.

We get practical and specific: why British-made lump charcoal beats chemical‑laden imports, how grass‑fed British brisket delivers deep flavour once you’ve mastered fat and carryover, and when beginners might “goofproof” with imported packers. Christian breaks down cooking by senses—listening for sizzles, reading smoke, feeling for that soft‑to‑tough‑to‑soft arc—and admits the hard lessons learned from opening pits too often or trapping embers in greasy gloves. The tips are actionable: pull turkey around 64°C and rest upward, carve radiant heat for rare spit‑roast beef, and skip full-bed coals in a kettle to keep a safe zone for flare‑ups.

The conversation roams where the fire leads. We champion winter grilling with stews, chilis, and cauldrons over embers; trade notes on Weber kettles, Kamado efficiency, and insulated fireboxes; and set our sights on pizza—New Haven and New York styles that crackle without the heavy chew. Regional cues thread through it all: Alabama white sauce you can double-dip on the grill, Memphis-style one-hour ribs at Rendezvous, and the Piedmont “outside brown” technique that turns pork shoulder into burnished, addictive steaks. It’s a celebration of the UK’s melting pot—techniques and flavours borrowed, blended, and made our own.

Ready to level up your barbecue with skills you can use this weekend? Hit play, then share your winter fire plans and favourite live‑fire tip. If you enjoyed the show, follow, rate, and leave a review—your support helps more people find the flame.

Sponsored by AOS Kitchens
AOS Kitchens are a leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists based in Hampshire

Thermapen Electronic Temperature Probes
Thermapen thermometers are designed to take the guesswork out of cooking perfect for your BBQ

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Transcript

Sponsor & Warm Welcome

Owen 0:00

Today's episode is brought to you by AOS Kitchens, the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists.

Dan 0:17

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Meet and Greet Barbecue Podcast. Owen and I are delighted and excited today to introduce uh this guest. Um, so much uh personality and passion in there. Christian really needs no introduction. So here is DJ Barbecue.

Owen 0:36

DJ Barbecue, welcome to the podcast. We're very, very excited to have you here. Uh I've been following you for a very long time. Please introduce yourself. I'm pretty sure most of our listeners know who you are, but do give uh yourself an intro.

DJ BBQ 0:51

Uh thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys even reaching out. Uh, it's always an honor doing a podcast and talking to uh fellow uh barbecue aficionados, live fire artisans, and just people who care about getting outdoors and cooking out. Uh my name is Christian Stevenson, aka DJ Barbecue. And I've been, yeah, I kind of launched DJ Barbecue in 2012. Uh luckily for me, I got kind of uh I was founded by Jamie Oliver's people, which kind of helped me really push the brand on YouTube with his channel. And then um, yeah, I just kind of bought a food truck or built a food truck, bought some smokers, kind of tweaked them, put them on trailers, and started hitting the festival circuit. And now I catertained for a living. And uh, we wrote a bunch of books, and we just want to empower people to get outdoors and have a good time and cook out. That's what we do. We want people to cook deliciousness because I think it's an empowering thing. The quickest way to someone's heart is through their stomach and their ears.

Owen 1:56

Most definitely. So uh I well 2012, so you know, already been doing DJ, you know, under the DJ Barbecue Brown for a long, long time. Um so where did you go from that kind of uh initial concept, as you said, working, you know, kind of with the Jamie Oliver brand to I'm just gonna go buy a food truck, buy a load of smokers, and and and off I go.

DJ BBQ 2:19

Well, in the concept, so I've always cooked barbecue and I've always DJed. So I could I cook barbecue from the age of six because my my parents, my mom was the disco queen of the east coast. So she was at Studio 54, partying it up with like Andy Warhol and Grace Jones. My dad was a naval man, uh, he was the officer and the gentleman, and he and he was stationed down in Virginia Beach, and the local beauty pageant winner fell, you know, fell for the officer and the gentleman. Uh, and my dad won me in a landmark court case in the 70s, and he knew barbecue because he grew up in Iowa, Midwest, and his dad cooked barbecue. He taught my dad how to cook barbecue, and then that's and then from the age of six, I was cooking barbecue. Um, and that that so it was always there, and I've always been DJing. I think I started DJing since uh I think 18, you know, university, college, parties, and then went to radio. Uh, and then I just did a lot of like festivals, and I was at a festival called Loch Ness on the banks of Rockness, no, Roch Ness on the banks of Loch Ness, and I was headlining. Uh and my buddy, who's the prodigies DJ, Toby Malaj, was opening for me. And he headlined on the Friday. We swapped headline sets, and he, I was like, I don't want to follow Toby, he's too good. Anyway, I was able to pull off a good set on the fry on the Saturday, but everybody started ticking their clothes off uh on the Saturday night. And I was like 15 deep out of the tent, and everybody's like going forward, it's heaving, and everybody just starts chucking their clothes off. And I'm looking at this crowd, I'm like, what am I gonna do when I turn 40? What am I gonna do when I turn 50? And that's when I came up with the concept of DJ Barbecue. Um I I figured I could make a destination because I've been doing all the festivals and I was doing destination stuff, but for brands and and sound systems, and I was like, I'll I'll give them a reason to stay. You know, it might come for the music and stay for the food, or they might come for the you know, vice versa. So that's kind of how DJ Barbecue was born because I've always enjoyed DJing and Catertaining, you know. I just I love to throw a party, and that's what we do now. And we've been doing we we uh and I was building like the areas at festivals. Uh, we were like, you know, gazebos, wood frames, corgate iron, kind of like the juke joints in the south. We were kind of having those built. And but it was always a it was like a day build and a day to take it all down. And uh and I was like, okay, I need to get this quicker and I need hot water. It got kind of a lot easier. And that's when um I was at a festival for reno cars, and Jamie uh had had did a deal with them where they built Jamie Oliver two food trucks, and I'm um, and Jamie couldn't go to everything, so I they would send me off to like, hey, represent Jamie Oliver. And I'm like, okay, that's cool. So I'm there doing some demos with this food truck, and it's got all the branding on it, Jamie Oliver Food Tube, Reno. And this guy taps me on the shoulder. I'm about to get some food. I'm gonna get, I'm actually ordering barbecue from like the it's it's a it's a reno summer picnic. And the this guy taps me on the shoulder. He had a North American accent. He's like, um, so what do you think about the food truck over there? I was like, it's great. We're mobile, we can clean really easy. Um, you know, it's amazing to have hot water buses. Don't tell anybody from Renault, but I'm gonna I'm gonna steal it when uh when I'm done today. I would I think I said nick it, and then I go, I'm gonna steal it, but don't tell anybody. And I knew he was Renault. And he's like, well, don't steal it, I'll build you one. And I go, what do you mean? Build me one. And he's like, I'm Ken Ramirez, CEO of Renault Europe. And he shook my hand, and within a year he built me a food truck.

Speaker 3 6:06

Wow.

Building The Food Truck & Festival Setup

DJ BBQ 6:06

And uh that kind of I was like, that's a big help. Because, you know, it's just is you're really barbecue's hard. You know, we barbecue's a hard uh thing to do, and it's fun, but it's like it's it's a long process and it's expensive. So any any little help you can get, you know, I'll take it. So now we have a food truck and and uh we're mobile, and I put a hitch on it so we can pull the smokers and everything and do uh authentic Carolina barbecue.

Dan 6:38

Also, I suppose the barbecue culture in the UK would have been very different from way where you grew up and everything. So barbecue in the UK in 2012 must have been very different, and what you brought to the table must have been shocking to people who've only had kind of half-raw sausages in the middle for a lot of that time.

DJ BBQ 6:57

And that that was it. Like we were trying to like do like proper slow and low stuff and showing them how to like cook cheaper cuts, you know, frontal muscles with all the collagen and the connective tissue, and how to treat those muscles so you can get a good, you know, get a good result, something delicious. Uh, and also, you know, how to cook even the stuff that we used to cook in, like chicken and sausages and burgers and the steak, and how to get a good result out of that. So you're not dying of, you're not getting food poisoning from salmonella. Um, yeah, it was it, but but England, you know, I went to grill stock uh pretty early. I forgot which grill stock we went to, like one of the first ones, 2014, 2015, 2016. And I was pretty blown away with the level of you know where it was. Bunch of swines went to uh went to the the Kansas City Championships and and won, you know. So England was, you know, putting their name on the map uh quite early. I but you know, it was also letting everybody else know about it, you know, and that's kind of what my mission was. I was I was the food editor for FHM and I was writing you know monthly articles in there to kind of like empower people to cook barbecue. So yeah, there's nothing better than making helping people along that journey.

Owen 8:17

So uh for for for complete newbies, let's you know, no one's that's never picked up a uh a grill before or never cooked anything over fire or charcoal. What are what would you say? What's the kind of biggest piece of advice that you'd give someone to try and give them confidence?

UK Barbecue Culture Shift

DJ BBQ 8:35

Indirect. Just keep yourself safe zones. It's a it's it's the one piece of advice I give most people, and then they it changes their game. Um, yeah. Always like two different. I mean, I cook a lot on a on a Kamado and a Weber, and with the Weber, I won't I never have charcoal everywhere. Unless I gotta get things done, you know, and I'm cooking for lots of people, and it's it's a certain tool, but I just want temperature zones. Plus, I'm drinking a beer. Yeah. You want to drink a beer, you want, you know, places to go, and especially with chicken and the fats and thighs and dark meats and uh that when those fats render, they hit the coals and you get the flames and all that. And nah, just give yourself temperature zones. And also, I think later on I learned, you know, when I cook barbecue, I don't, I don't probe. I I've never probed. I've just done it by touch and feel. But when I'm roasting and grilling, I cooked attempt, not the time. And those are like the two things I I try to say, you know, temperature zones, indirect, direct heat, and and cooked a temp, not the time when it comes to grilling. Because if you're gonna go do a steak, that's a big investment again. You know, brisket's a big investment. But I'm looking for that wobble. You know, meat starts off soft and then you put heat to it, and then it tenses up. And then, you know, when it's like a frontal muscle, then you want it to slow cook and then relax again and go swooshy, like you know, when you're putting your thumb between the bones on the ribs or you're putting your thumb through that the pork shoulder, you know, you're looking for it's soft to tough to soft again. And if you do it wrong, it'll stay tough, and that's where you don't want it to go. But it's just trying to find that arc where you get to the meat stall and you get goods. But yeah, but always invest in a good probe. I like I I use a thermopen and uh and when I'm doing steak, I probe the crap out of it because I used to do it all by touch and you know what the steak feels like, and I still touch it, but when I want to pull it off, I want it at a certain temperature that I want to be able to let it rest so it hits where it's perfect. Like I cook the turkey till 64 degrees and let it rest to 72, you know, because it turkeys, if it's slow growth, will rise 10 degrees in in an hour when it's out of the cooker.

Dan 10:54

It's that thing, isn't it? How it's also trusting the rest and trusting time to be on your side. I think that's one thing that we can be very guilty of is rushing the afterthought, particularly if you've mistimed something, because a barbecue takes as long as barbecue takes, right?

DJ BBQ 11:11

But the rest is done when it's done.

Dan 11:14

Yeah, yeah, exactly, right?

DJ BBQ 11:16

That's it. It's just it's trusting the rest, and and and trusting you. I guess the more you do it, the better you get at it, and that's why you guys are into it. Like, you know, you you know you know how to get good results, and it feels getting to know your cooker, getting to know your fuel, getting to know the muscles, getting to know your your the touch and the probe and all that, and that and it's in its experience, you know. During lockdown, I was doing a lot of barbecue because of I just I had a little um I'm I'm a I was a solo dad raising three boys on my own, and I have a little backyard in southeast London, and I have a little Romeo and Juliet balcony. There's no there's no balcony, but there's a little like a little rail there where I can open up doors, and I was cooking by smell and what I could hear down there. But then if I couldn't hear it, I I was just smelling it. I could it I was like, oh my god, I think I'm I'm running too hot. And I would run down and you know, close my dampeners. But it's amazing how you you you get good at that. Like my a lot of times, my smokers, the the the gauges break. So we're just cooking, we're just touching the top of it, you know, we're listening, we're smelling. It's really amazing to use those other senses to to get the best results.

Owen 12:34

I mean, that's definitely taking it to the next level, though, isn't it? In in that most people are very much going by their their temperature gauge on the on the on the grill.

DJ BBQ 12:44

But it feels good when you can get there.

Owen 12:46

Uh I'm I mean, I'm not there, so it must absolutely, but surely that must have taken dude, just use that nose.

DJ BBQ 12:55

I know I got a big one.

Owen 12:59

But just going through that process then of uh you know being so you know reliant on those other senses, does that mean there has been some times when you're kind of getting used to that and not the visual of of the thumb uh the thermometer where it's it's completely not gone so well?

Newbie Fundamentals: Zones And Probing

DJ BBQ 13:16

I think we did for two summers of festival catering, we didn't have because like my things are made in uh Georgia and America, my smokers, they're langs, they're offset firebox, and I I had none of the gauges worked. So we we just it was myself, Choppy, and a guy called Matt Williams who started Oxford Charcoal and then went on to do Whittle and Flame. And we we would just like we would just be touching it. He Matt Williams can touch, can move live fire around. So when he touched it, he was there for like you know, five, six, seven, eight seconds. You know, if it's running hot, you're like two seconds and you're like you're burnt. But usually you want to be able to put your hand on the top of the smoker near the the smokestack for about five seconds, you're like, okay, we're good. We're we're hitting. But that's how we cooked. And listening for that little sizzle, knowing those fats we're rendering, and we're gonna get through the meat stall. It's it's pure intuition, then, isn't it? You've you've that's what you're running on. Yeah. Yeah. And then I called the guy who makes my can I get some temperature probes? Because there's people that are might be because I might be DJing, you know, and we have a sound system and a stage right next to the cookers and the food truck. So I gotta like do other stuff. So I got some probes that worked, some temperature gauges. We we have we had one smoker. I've sold it to Big Grill in Dublin that had I think six probes on it. It was 108 inches long. Uh Lang.

Dan 14:45

Is that male inches or like actual inches?

DJ BBQ 14:48

Yeah, 108 inches long. They call it the Intimidator. It's the biggest smoker that uh Ben Lang like rolls and makes. And uh it just took forever to get temp. So, and it's a pain in the ass to transport. So I sold that to a friend that runs the festival. So all the big pit masters when they come over from America, they get to use that smoker. So it's always a joy to go watch those guys run my smoker. But I I take a 60-inch uh offset lang. I can fit about 20, 22 to 24 shoulders in there, pork shoulders. And then I got a 42-inch grille on the front, so I can do burgers and shoulders. So I can do quicker food and slow food because I ran out, I realized like I kept running out of pork shoulder at festivals. I was like, well, can't, you know, can't just make it real quick. So I started doing burgers to just have something to feed the people.

Owen 15:44

Uh and they like like Smash Burger type or or no, everything's over Live Fire.

DJ BBQ 15:49

Uh, I mean, I cook a lot of Smash Burgers at home. But yeah, and for festivals, everything's over Live Fire. We make our own charcoal. We we get charcoal in from Love Logs, Black Dog Forestry. Always champion British-made charcoal because um the charcoal that's coming from overseas has got retardants on it. And that's why you got to burn off all that crap and it smokes. It's just oh, so much chemicals and it's decimating rainforest. So support your local charcoal makers. Buy British.

Owen 16:20

Yeah, yeah. Um very much, yeah. We we we talk about British a lot. Actually, do you just out of interest on that point, uh, and talking about beef, I think specifically.

DJ BBQ 16:30

Best beef in it in the world is in England.

Owen 16:33

Okay, yeah. So, because I think there's obviously the conversation around brisket, right? And obviously, where typically beef here is grass-fed, it's leaner as opposed to a grain-fed. Um, I just wonder what your thoughts are where you've obviously been both sides of uh the the uh pond, what your preference would be.

DJ BBQ 16:52

I love a British brisket, you know. I love it. If if I can get a good fatty one. So we get a black Angus Hereford cross breed that works for us from uh Walter Rosen Sons. And I know so I know Smokestack now are pretty much 100% British, uh that restaurant, and that's good to hear. Uh, but if you if you're just starting your journey, import like uh Jacobs Creek Australian one or an American brisket just for that that goofproofing.

Dan 17:24

Yeah, Owen and I have talked about that before. If if I have people coming over, I am much more likely to do that because I know the one time I get it wrong is when I'm cooking for people. Whereas I'm cooking for family, um, then I want that that extra depth that you get from a good British piece, particularly, you know, if it's aged, grass-fed, there's so much that you can get from that. X dairy cows as well, you know.

DJ BBQ 17:50

You want that dynamic flavor. That's why British beef's the best in the world, because it's all grass-fed. You guys are a very lucky nation to have such wonderful beef. That's why I came here 32 years ago and never left. Chasing the beef. Chasing the beef. That's got a tattoo to my right butt cheek. And then the word anal with a question mark on my left butt cheek. I'm just kidding, my buddy is in the middle, man. He's got that tattoo.

Dan 18:18

And then a tattoo just on the lower back.

DJ BBQ 18:22

I love comedy tattoos. Maybe it wasn't nominee.

Owen 18:25

Anyway, I don't so obviously like you said, uh we see well, we see your name, uh, and we've seen you at you know various festivals. And uh you were doing some bits at Pub in the Park, was the most recent festival that I went to uh a few months ago.

DJ BBQ 18:45

Like you must be one of the busiest men in mixed grill sword, I think. If you were there a couple months ago, like we cooked everything from a mixed grill, yeah, but the whole part of the animal and put it on a sword, because that was Choppy's idea. Because we did Burger Sword for sorry to interrupt you, but we did burger, we we we toured Burger Sword for a while. I kept calling Choppy, who I write the books with, and uh who's my partner in crime, godfather of my child, one of my best friends in the world. And he I always say, We should do a recipe from one of the books and push the book. And he's like, Burger Sword. I go, Burger Sword is not a recipe, and it's not even in any of the books. He's like, but that's what the crowd wants. Because we would cook 20 burgers in 10 minutes and put them on a sword, and then we run around the the crowd and hand burgers off a sword, they taste better. Um, and kids love it, you know.

Dan 19:32

Yeah, I was I love the the the joy of that as well. How can we make this better? Sword, yeah.

Cooking By Senses: Smell, Sound, Touch

DJ BBQ 19:39

Can we have a roll bazooka to load it up as well? Choppy does medieval battle reenactments, so he's got an authentic sword that he had handcrafted. Like Choppy's crazy. Uh it's a re it's heavy. Like Choppy basically, when we're doing like a demo, Choppy's you know, performing for the crowd, singing. You know, he's doing musical medleys and he's holding a sword while so I'm cooking a leg of lamb, uh, three ribeyes, um, a whole like a big thick gamon steak, you know, a bunch of eggs, you know, everything you can imagine on a on a mixed grill, a full chicken. Like at first, I was taking apart all the animals so I can get them done, but Choppy's like, no, no, they need to be whole. I go, I go, it's gonna take a while to do a leg of leg of lamb, you know. And he's like, I know, but it'll look better. And he was right. So the first time I did it, I took apart the chicken, I took apart the lamp, I butterfied the lamb, so it was all a bit quicker to cook, and I can get it on a sword. But then I started cooking like hours in advance with everything else and just made sure it was all kind of like done and on the home stretch before we finished the demo and just put it on a sword form. So uh Owen, you saw if you were there, you got to witness it.

Owen 20:50

Yeah, so I was at the St. Open's one and um yeah, again, just obviously the crowds absolutely love it. They love it. It's it's it's pure cantertainment. And then they think yeah, well, yeah, exactly. Uh I I suppose where I suppose where does the in, you know, you've been doing it for a long, long time now, and just in just in the way that you talk, still very, very much passionate. We can hear the passion in your voice. What what what continues to drive you in in terms of barbecue and doing things like that uh you know, live demos?

DJ BBQ 21:25

Uh that's a good question. Which drives me uh four children to pay a really expensive divorce. No, uh it there's a joy in, I mean, you guys could barbecue. There's a joy in feeding people good food.

Speaker 3 21:41

Yeah.

DJ BBQ 21:42

And and I know we we we add more with the entertainment, the stages, the music, the we've added pyro, smoke machines, bubble machines. You know, we we do a lot more and uh in the outfits. Um, but there's a joy in giving people good food. And like, and I like cooking for like I want a footfall of 30,000, 40,000 people. I want that footfall, and so I can just feed them all. If they're if they're hungry, I'll feed them. Uh, and then I love like cooking for family and friends and you know, feeding, you know, you know, a dozen, 20 people, whoever come over. And and everybody's always looking at me like, don't you get stressed? And I go, God, no. This this there's a you know, there might be some like you know, little moments where you're like trying to get your timings right, but uh for the most part, I'm I'm in my zone when I'm in the kitchen or I'm outdoors cooking. I had a Kamado Joe, two Webers going, the stovetop, you know, and I was even using the oven, which we just fixed because the oven broke as soon as we moved into this house in Nottingham. So it's been really fun working off just outdoor cookers for like since I moved in in March. Um, and I did get the missus an air fryer um just for ease. So yeah, basically a Kamado and a Weber and an air fryer have been our cookers.

Owen 23:01

Are you talking about the original Ketzel or maybe the big ranch one?

DJ BBQ 23:05

Yeah, the the Weber, the 57. I mean, I have a ranch, but it's in the basement. I haven't I haven't built it yet. We use the big one at festivals for our buns. The problem with those, they get they get hot. Yeah, and and I'm just burning arm hair, you know. So I can only put a fire on one corner. Uh, because it those things hold a lot of fuel.

Owen 23:26

Those ranches, it's quite yeah, it's quite a deep basin, isn't it?

Gear, Smokers, And British Charcoal

DJ BBQ 23:30

Yeah, they hold fuel. Uh like even when I used to use a drumbecue a lot, those oil oil kind of ones, oil, oil drums, you know, if you put anything in the back, you know, you're asking for trouble getting that food from the back just because there's all that heat. That's why it's important to have indirect cooking. You know, take off all your uh arm hair. But yeah, I think it's a joy of giving people good food. And plus, uh, when people buy our books and they tell us, I you know, I do you know the the movie Paddington? Yes, so Hugh Bonville. I know Madonna told me to quit name dropping. Uh Hugh Bonville did an interview, and my phone went crazy one day saying Hugh's just come out with this interview praising DJ Barbecue. And I'm like, what? And I and I I look and I find the article, and he's like saying, Yeah. They go, they asked him, Hugh, do you cook? He's like, I love cooking barbecue. And I bought a book uh by a guy called DJ Barbecue called Firefood, and it was in this book where this American gentleman told me nicely what I was doing wrong. And and I was like, man, what a nice way to say, you know, yeah, don't put charcoal the whole way through a Weber, you know, like give yourself some temperature zones. I mean, I know that's what he was he learned, and uh, and I was like, oh man, and then and then we just came out with uh Backyard Baking, our our kind of bread and barbecue book, and I sent him a signed copy uh from all the guys we wrote up with David Wright, Choppy, and myself. Just I was so thankful. And he he took a photo of himself holding it up and put it up on his Instagram. I'm like, you know, thank you. You know, you can't, you can't. That's just I love when I love when that happens, but yeah, it's teaching people. Like I did a course uh last weekend or two weekends ago in SoCal in Southampton. Yeah, uh, we did a greatest hits kind of day, like all the the most loved recipes from the books. So pull pork, how to really get the easiest uh you know, how to cook ribs really easy, you know, uh St. Louis style, baby back, those kind of sizes, um, tomato pie, how to cook steak, different, you know, everything from ribeye to bevette. Uh, and just gave people knowledge and let them talk. And uh that was a wonderful day. And it was in the rain too, but it did you it didn't dampen the spirits. We had a wonderful day with uh like 20 people that wanted to learn how to cook barbecue. And I I love teaching. So I'm doing courses with Elkie, Hunter Gather Cook. We're doing more in SoCal. So there's a ton coming up. Just follow our Instagram and you'll see us what we know what we're up to.

Owen 26:20

Uh yeah, and like I said, you must be one of the busiest men in barbecue, uh always doing masterclasses or books or or in America filming because that's I was just saying you've just done that Lost In series, right?

DJ BBQ 26:33

That was season two, so yeah, I was doing like a week here and then three weeks over there. So I've just we moved here in March and I haven't been here. I mean, you're you're luckily you're in the only room that we've kind of done apart from the bed. This is this is the where we spend most of the time. Uh yeah, it's it's pretty crazy. So right now I'm I'm I'm looking forward to because winter is kind of I wish we cooked more in the winter outdoors. I think that's the what that I used to go on this morning a lot when when Phil Schofield was hosting. He loves barbecue, and he would always they would always have me on on the hottest day of the year, the first hottest day of the year. And Phil would always say, Why do we call DJ Barbecue on the hottest day of the year to stand around hot cold? And I said, I really appreciate it. But I wouldn't I would love to come during the winter and in the in the kind of darker months. I think that's the best time to cook. Like this is my favorite time to cook out.

Dan 27:33

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I went over to Owen's house, what was it, a week ago, two weeks ago? Time to fly in at the moment, and it's freezing outside, and we're slipping over on ice, but there's nothing more joyous while that's happening to be cooking in the background and doing a whole host of different types of meats, and as you said, having a beer cracked open. That's far for me more enjoyable than being out there in 30 degree heat, burning from two sides.

DJ BBQ 28:00

Yeah, why would you want around why do you want to stand around hot coals in like super hot weather? Nah, like post September, like end of September into like uh April, May, that's like the that's the perfect time to cook out before it gets too hot. And and I and I wish we pushed that more in this country. And that's kind of what I've been trying to do is get people to cook and using seasonal ingredients and doing more stews and chili. Just get outside, you know. Don't just think about grilling direct, you know, with so you have like you so you get in the char. Just put a put a big pot out there, you know, make red beans and rice and chicken thighs and chorizo, do uh a stew, do a chili, but you know, you get your cauldron out there, but use light a fire and stand around and stand around the the the the cooker and cook outdoors and you know stay warm and and get fresh air. It's just it feels good.

Owen 29:02

Uh I mean, yeah, we we obviously agree massively that you know uh 365 barbecue in as far as I'm concerned, but it is amazing still, and you know, I when we just talk to people at work or friends and family, and they're just like, What? It's one degree outside, and you're you're cooking outside, and it's like yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's it's so much fun, so you should definitely give it a go. But there is still a reluctance to do that.

DJ BBQ 29:29

And I I don't get why, but there's a there's a dude in Buffalo, New York. Now, if you guys are familiar with how much it snows in Buffalo, New York. If you watch like the Buffalo Bills, the football team, the NFL football team play, they're they play in a lot of snowy conditions.

Dan 29:43

They don't have green grass there, do they? It's white.

British Vs Imported Brisket

DJ BBQ 29:46

It's just it's just there's a guy called uh Ryan Hernandez. And at age 16, he moved to Dallas, and he does this Texas brisket biryani, his grandma's biryani with his brisket, and it's called Southern Junction. And I went and visited him and did some filming with him when I when I was doing some filming with our bag whiskey, uh, doing some ambassador work for them. And it was one of the best things I've ever tasted, but he had a smoker, and the firebox was it was the biggest firebox I've ever seen. It was about the size of that TV. Um, and but it was insulated because I go, wait, you've insulated your your your firebox, you know, so there's walls and walls, and then the fire. He's like, Well, yeah, I cook in like three, four feet of snow. I have to dig out my firebox just to get a fire going in there, and so I'm not battling cold. So we had a custom built with an insulation on the firebox. Well, I suppose that helps maintain the heat as well, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, my my my Langs world quarter-inch seal, so it purrs, you know. And that's why people like, you know, what what do I buy as my first cooker and they want to get like a cheap offset, and they buy like the landmans or whatever those things are from Costco, and they break, but it's a good, I guess, entry point cooker. Um, but you know, that's why the ceramics are so good because they yeah, they they're efficient, you know, you don't have to keep re-adding fuel, and you're not they just purr. That's what you want. You want a cooker that purrs.

Dan 31:23

We've talked uh a lot about kind of uh the different opportunities of types of grills you've been able to cook on over the years and smokers and everything. Do you have a next toy in mind that you're hoping to get to cook on or do something different with?

DJ BBQ 31:40

That's a great question, my friend. Um my next toy.

Dan 31:47

Because they are playful, right?

DJ BBQ 31:48

That that's that's you know, you know where you know where I really want to go is I I want to play more with pizza. Yeah. So I'm I'm looking at more, and I've had I've gone through a a couple, you know, ovens that way, like you know, like kind of gazdi type cookers, and I have a little one, the rock box in the backyard. Um, but uh I I really want to just dive more into pizza because meat's expensive, and I really want to play with New Haven style pizzas and New York style pizzas. I'm over Nepal Neapolitan. Uh I don't want to chew on dough for a week. Uh, but I want to be able to play with the ovens that will get me that. So the I think the kit I'm looking at right now are are pizza ovens and that kind of those that kind of kit. But yeah, always I always say have an have a Weber as your first cooker, a Weber 57 Mask Touch. That's your first cooker you should always have. Because it's a it's accessible, it's affordable. Uh, I know Broil King uh out of Canada, which is a family-run um uh operation, they're doing a kettle soon, and they're doing like a smoker, like a pellet slash I think gas like hybrid that they're working on. I'm looking forward to checking that out. Um, my KJ has been my go-to for the last couple of years. I'm loving my KJ, my Kamado Joe. But yeah, I think I just want to experiment more with like kind of pizza ovens, and that's like the next kit. Because I've got the Langs, I've got three Langs, uh 108, uh 60, and a 36. So I've played with them. Next, next, or maybe some cabinets. I did build a I did build an offset smoker that I turned into a lightsaber. Oh wow. If you want to see a pretty crazy build, that's on YouTube. Lightsaber smoker with DJ Barbecue. It's it's it's proper.

Dan 33:40

If you're listening, Paul's go look that up and then come back. Yeah, that's what we're gonna do after this.

DJ BBQ 33:45

Yeah, stay here. But when you're done, go on, look, go look up lightsaber. You know, use use you use the pork. By the way, you know, um, when I first started describing the kind of indirect method, I called it the Death Star technique. So charcoal on both sides, like in the Weber, and then no charcoal in the middle. That's how I put like a chicken in there, like a lamb, you know, your big cuts, but you know, over indirect heat. But it's kind of how uh in Star Wars A New Hope when Luke Skyward, well, Felicity Jones in Rogue One gets the plans to blow up a Death Star. She passes away, she dies to get those plans, so we can blow up a Death Star. And that's how I would set up my grill. So charcoal here, nothing here, and that's where Luke Skyward goes with the X-Wing. Yeah, the guy's yelling, you know, stay on target.

Dan 34:35

So, like it is the temperature dial, then like the amount of distance you've got until you have to shoot. And that's when you get to the master Jedi level, you take it off because you can tell by the smell and the feel.

Speaker 3 34:45

Yeah, that's it. That's where we're trying to get to.

DJ BBQ 34:48

Use the force, Luke. You get rid of it, you get rid of all the tech, and you send us two shots down the exhaust and blow up a Death Star, and then you eventually because you all Luke's trying to do in that movie is get the girl, yeah. Who and he hits the girl who winds up being his sister. It's a whole movie based on incest. Yeah, I mean, there's been worse movies made, so luckily it's Han Solo moves in and they make Kylo Rand and they make a bigger Death Star out of a planet, and it just history repeats. That's Star Wars. Sorry for the spoiler, folks. Yeah, I was just getting to watch them.

Dan 35:26

60s. What I would love to actually that I found in a charity shop.

DJ BBQ 35:37

Yeah, go on, go on, show us, show us. Okay. It's from 19, I think it's 1938. I found this in Lumpstead uh Woolwich. Can you imagine that you got your you got your first electric or you know, gas cooker? Because everything was live fire.

Speaker 3 36:01

Yeah.

Showmanship: Burger Swords And Mixed Grills

DJ BBQ 36:02

Yeah. Your your hearths, you know, with hooks, you know, everything was barbecue, everything was live fire. 1938. Wow. And this just tells you what to do with the refrigerator, with the cooker, with all these appliances that are pretty, you know, back in 1938's a big deal. So um, but of course, back then they'd have like three or four recipes on a page, you know. They assume you know how to do everything. Grapefruit cocktail, gooseberry cocktail, melon cocktail, cream of lentils of dry or dried peas, cream of celery. And there's that's just there's still two more recipes on that one page, you know. It's just crazy. So this is one of my favorite books. So I try to reenact some of these recipes, but I bring them back outdoors. Yeah. But apparently Elizabeth Craig was the Don. Like she was the Delius Smith back in the um 30s and 40s.

Dan 37:02

It's it's finding something like that is real kind of food history, and to see it going back outdoors is very full circle, which is great. That that feels like you have just pitched a TV show through the podcast, right?

DJ BBQ 37:18

Yeah. Well, you know, we we there's a there's a there's a lardy cake in there that we we we took it back outdoors and we did for uh backyard baking. And it's one of the most gorgeous things, I think, Dave Wright. So we wrote Choppy and I teamed up with a 2017 Baker of the Year, David Wright, uh, third generation baker out of Woodbridge.

Dan 37:38

Um in very close to me, very close to me. I'm Ipswich base, okay. Yes, yeah, yeah.

DJ BBQ 37:45

Also also the birthplace of Voldemort.

Dan 37:48

Yeah, well, you know, we win some, they win some, they lose some, you know.

DJ BBQ 37:52

I was trying to, yeah. My kids, we were gonna open up a restaurant there, a barbecue pizza place, and his family's old bakery. And I was like trying to tell my kids, okay. I know you guys have been living in London with your friends here, but we're thinking about moving to the to Woodbridge, and they're like, Woodbridge, and then I was like, It's the birthplace of Voldemort, and then they're like, Oh, okay, now we're interested. It's got a lovely national trust. Yeah, the way to a good table. I wish I took better care of it because I left it in my basement. Oh, look at look at her, look at her. What do you what do I do with this thing? But that's the thing is so back then they were used to fires, yeah. And then they're trying to bring it indoors, you know. We've been cooking on gas for like a hundred and you know, just over a hundred years, like really, everything was fire, and now we're trying to, you guys and myself we're teaching everybody, we're promoting people to get back out there and cook with fire. But back then they brought it indoors, you know. That that hearth was everything that that thing was was huge. That's where everything's happening.

Owen 39:00

It's interesting though, isn't it? Because some of the brands have actually done electric style barbecues, asn't is it what is it Weber Lumen? And I think on Uni did an electric pizza oven that could be done indoors. Well, black just look at Blackstone, you know.

DJ BBQ 39:15

Yeah, I mean that they've just joined forces with with Weber. I mean, they they're now the same company, and and and they've revolutionized uh the outdoor cooking, but it's a griddle, you know, it's a it's a it's a plancha, it's a big flat cooker.

Dan 39:31

Which is I I held off getting one for ages and I love mine. Um yeah, yeah. I I've got uh I've got a monolith tomato, which I do a lot of cooking on, but I love being able to sear stuff on there. I love to be able to do kind of breakfasts on there, like pancakes on a on a Sunday for the kids and stuff. I it's uh having two very different cooking or barbecuing toys. Um makes it feel that much more versatile. Um nothing compared to kind of Owen's army of barbecues.

DJ BBQ 40:06

What what do you got, Owen?

Owen 40:09

What have I got? So I've got a 57, Weber 57, I've got a Broil King Keg. Nice. I I do, yeah. So I actually I won it uh on a through SoCal uh years and years ago about 20 uh five six years ago. Um so it's it's just like a Camado isn't it but just a cast iron version instead of ceramic okay um so it's quite good. I've got a Weber 57 Smoky Mountain. Nice uh I've got a Delavita wood fired pizza oven I've got an Uni wood fired pizza oven. Wow uh I've just bought a Somerset grill so the Asado yeah uh which is really cool very very good funny live just a normal house in Essex just outside near near Colchester yeah yeah the oldest founded town in England absolutely you weren't ready for the American to come up with that fact were you I was not no caledinian facts yeah yeah yeah it is it is married and divorced an Essex girl from Colchester oh okay yeah so just outside um I've also got a blackstone uh nice yeah and um like a uh oh a master built the portable um the on the trolley that you can take with you the cabinet kind of style no it's it's literally uh it's uh it's like a fold down um so it's a portable grille um so it runs on back it's got like an uh air throw with batteries and all you can plug it in but you can take it camping and things like that. Oh nice and then like a a cheap version of a Smokey Joe you know the little Weber thing. That's yeah a little rectangle thing.

Motivation, Teaching, And Courses

DJ BBQ 41:54

Yeah kind of yeah uh so yeah quite a few. Wow uh Owens Owens rocking yeah yeah he is a little my last house in London I think I had about 12 cookers in the backyard but I I've been renting for like 10 years after the divorce so I kind of lost a lot of cookers from my divorce I mean I had a beautiful uh Italian uh refresh what like one of those clay kind of like you know pizza ovens like oh yeah Damian Oliver hooked me up with it I mean it was stupid money and he's like gifted it to me and I had I had all this kid I had my Lang in the front yard I mean I was just laughing and then I got divorced moved to London to a little one bedroom uh and then I had I so I had there I had the Weber I had a uh the the oil drum that was like horizont like vertical um pit barrel I had a pit barrel which was fun uh Weber pit barrel and a drum cue and that was like all I cooked on that's what I wrote fire food on I wrote my I wrote fire food with Choppy there in that house and I had a little garage so I could hold stuff in there and I had a pinball machine and then I got full custody of three kids so I moved to a little three bedroom down the road in southeast London and uh then I was able to start stockpiling more kids and then we moved to Nottingham because I was able to get back on the ladder and I don't have a backyard. Can you believe it DJ Barbecue does not have a backyard. I have a tiny ass courtyard and there's it it's this room is twice the size of my courtyard. Wow yeah it's small so what are you gonna do with all your gear well you can't walk there because it's just all the gear and I need to find houses around Nottingham where I'm gonna start putting stuff where I can film because I've got a Kamado Joe I got the new digital one I'm still building uh and then I've got three three Webers I got a drumbecue and I got the the the rock box but there's just no room yeah so I'm gonna kind of try to whittle down like three maybe four so I went from 15 it's hard to get rid of them though isn't it yeah it's so hard you feel like kids like I I had a Traeger um uh you got rid of your kids yeah that's it I had a I had an 885 ironwood um and I just I didn't use it that often but someone traged going down is that true well uh I heard their market share is like dwindling and their stocks tanking and uh who I don't know who I spoke to and they were like I think Traeger won't be around next year and I'm like whoa I thought that's a big statement I thought Traeger was like such a a brand like a Weber brand yeah well I heard something similar today okay I don't I don't think worldwide but I just think certainly this side all right if you've been looking or thinking about an outdoor kitchen then look no further than AOS outdoor kitchens.

Owen 45:02

They are the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists. Their extensive show room is based just outside Bournemouth on the Dorset Hampshire border and as well as numerous in-store displays also features a live outdoor kitchen where they cook every week on Camado grills, pizza ovens and all filmed and shown on YouTube.

Dan 45:22

They offer a wealth of knowledge on how to transform your patio into the most incredible outdoor dining area with styles and options to suit every budget and you can guarantee they will be able to create something perfectly suited to you and your home.

Owen 45:35

They stock and supply everything that you're going to need for outdoor cooking including barbecues, comado ovens, pizza ovens, outdoor fridges and every accessory that you would need to become the ultimate outdoor chef.

Dan 45:49

So if you want to make yourself the envy of your friends and neighbours get in touch with them today to arrange a consultation and take the first step in transforming your back garden into the most incredible entertainment space. Visit aoskitchens.co dot it's um it's interesting because uh Owen and I have talked in depth about the more you play with fire something like that is fantastic if you haven't got time if you're worried about holding temperatures over a period or if you're getting into it but I think the more hardcore people now want to be playing with fire and you don't have an element.

DJ BBQ 46:29

Yes in it it connects you to the earth to who you are as a person to being you know to being a human you know once we discovered fire we that that's how we developed as humans as Homo sapiens like we were chewing food for four and a half hours a day before fire you know trying to get I still do but I eat I swallow most of it all the way through so digestion starts with mastication Dan's got that tattooed on his right butt cheek no but I mean if if it wasn't for barbecue fire we wouldn't have evolved yeah because now we we chew for 30 minutes instead of four and a half four and a half hours a day we were chewing to get through to get through each day and um but fire changed that so I think that's that primal thing you were talking about Dan is like when you really learn how to connect with your fire and and you know it's funny because like everyone wanted a gas grill and that's great. You know I started on a gas grill when I was six and I cooked on it for till I was about 14 and then just started cooking on Weber's and other cookers and smokers and that once you get into the the the real fuel you know that it just changes the way you want to operate and I know people want ease and that's great. I mean I got the digital KJ so I'm looking forward to playing with that but there's a primal intensity of playing with fire that feels good.

Owen 48:03

Yeah you see it with children on on campsites you know just yeah with the fire and wanting to poke it with a stick it draws you in that's exactly the reason I went for the asado you know that Somerset grill type type thing just that and and you know Dan c dan's come around and actually did it for the first time together which was quite good. But you can just you could just literally I know we've talked about it so many times but it you could just look at it for hours you could just watch the flame you know it's just like you said so bright and primal. And so I've just had an outdoor kitchen installed um in my garden. Good for you um readily yeah it's a proper life goal thing I've been wanting one for a very very long time uh and Jody from AOS Kitchens that that sponsors the podcast is um so I got it from him and he actually came up today uh and did some filming and videoing of the the the kitchen um and he was asking about the Somerset and what is it like um fire does obviously take longer to get going where the cut to get the coals you know to whittle down into the to the coals.

DJ BBQ 49:14

You're not you're not see cooking but that's the point isn't it it yeah it's it's radiant very much theater yeah it's it's theater but it it serves the purpose and all that you know and then what your that radiant heat you know we we I don't know if you guys have seen our setup at festivals more cooking for like the masses we do a whole leg of cow on a spit we took apart a landover winch system choppy did because Choppy's an engineer he got his degree in engineering so he can build anything and we we take the whole top bit of a of a cow the whole haunch uh with the Chateaubriand and the the rump like we get that whole bit and we put a pole through it and we spin it over over live fire we build a coal bed you know and we're slowly everybody's like well how long do you cook it for I like well once the outside fats are rendered I get a chart and I I can carve it because I'm carving rare yeah you know and then and and but it's that radiant heat you want to kind of just start rendering fat.

Owen 50:15

Yeah it takes but it it does take like you said you can't do it speedily right you it it does take but then I think you know if you are most of the time we're doing it because we're in it for the long haul.

DJ BBQ 50:30

Yeah exactly that's the definition of barbecue is slow cooked food with sauce that's the definition like in in America we don't call bar barbecue is not the cooker it's not a verb it's the food that's slow cooked but I think it's okay to call I call anything that's I think England it's okay now to call everything barbecue like and to barbecue I'm gonna go bar I'm barbecuing I think it's fine I'm not a I'm not pedantic about it anymore. But yeah it's but the traditional word of what slow cooked meat is with sauce is barbecue that's what it means.

Dan 51:06

But yeah we I think I like how England's just it's a it it's it's an action yes yeah I I think it it goes back to like the history I mean being Welsh maybe we look at it slightly differently from the empirical point of view but like an empire which you took a bit from here you took a bit from there lots of awful things happened but now what we have is a real melting pot of flavor techniques and we're not afraid to try different things and do different things.

DJ BBQ 51:38

I think that's what separates British barbecue from what you're seeing over in the States I I I think England is one of the best places in the world to to cook barbecue because of all the influences and I think it's a melting pot of cultures and I I honestly believe London's in the top five for best food in the world and I've walked this earth I've been everywhere um and I think it's one of the you know England's great for food. Everybody kind of disses English food but you know England's made is an immigrant it's made of immigrants and immigrants bring delicious food and and cooking techniques because you know no one we don't invented barbecue barbecue was invented when people wanted to evolve and that was with fire. So so we were asked so it's similar so we recently uh it was actually quite weird us being on the other foot and being interviewed uh quite recently but we were interviewed by uh uh the bar uh barbecue radio network um in in in the states uh and they were he asked us how to describe british barbecue and it was it was all I think with the we almost use the term like fusion like it it's not but it's a naughty word isn't it but it's it's a good it's a good word to describe but how yeah how else yeah exactly because we're not just amalgamation yeah I don't know how what other words to use but why is fusion become such a dirty word I don't know because in the 80s they ruined it when they were talking about you know Japanese Italian fusion by the way if you go to Porto there's so many Japanese Italian restaurants like together yeah that are part of the same thing you're like what but it's just those cultures come together and they yeah open a restaurant so you can get pasta and sushi I think I think that there's a lot of there's a lot of I want to say this right there's a lot of snobbiness around tradition yes and I think it but it's also important to get the basics right now but yeah but what what you can always strive for improvement right so how do you strive for improvement without fusing things together I don't know yeah well I mean that that's why I like England I ain't leaving you guys you guys are great everybody talks funny over here we do like talking silly no you have funny accents manybody's got a funny accent no no but it I think and people are willing to learn and and and you guys are i i think i find it a really good community like you know country wood smoke that form great community what what marcus has built over there everybody wants to kind of lift each other up you know and and and and encourage people there's i don't really find a whole lot of like nitpicking and i don't find it too cli I don't really find it too clicky over here you know in America you know there's very regional barbecue but here everybody's I'll I'll I'm up for everything you know I want to learn northern Alabama white sauce I want to learn about dry rubs from Memphis I want to learn about you know Carolina mustard based sauces in this region I want to learn about outside brown of the Piedmont region I want to learn about vinegar based sauces you know uh and that's so everybody's just up for it and that's that's a positive thing.

Snow, Insulated Fireboxes, And Purring Cookers

Owen 55:06

Yeah it's quite it's we've interviewed a few people from from America and and actually um so we've just recently released an episode uh from a lady called Sarah um who's got a huge offset smoke and she does a lot of like she basically cooks at a weekend and does everything meal prep but it's all kind of she was like I'm from South Louisiana it's all Cajun style and and that you know that that's what they do and then you know we've uh Tina Cannon that was won the first series of you know that uh barbecue showdown episode you know TV to you know it's Georgia this is the type of stuff that we do shotgun barbecue also on that show you know he was like this is the type of style and it doesn't seem to be that that like you said it's that regional style it's not the the blend the fusion but you're seeing that in restaurants in America you'll see a lot most places have a white sauce you know have an Alabama white sauce um you know you'll see you know and and over here I think when you have a barbecue place that's traditional American style they'll have every sauce you know Red Dog would do that all those kind of early barbecue shops places would would champion a lot of the regions um if you ever guys get a chance to go to Memphis uh I went to one of the oldest barbecue joints there is and that's Rendezvous uh they cook uh they cook baby back ribs in an hour wow wow they're in the they're in a basement and they're in a cabinet and there's 18 inches between it's a charcoal there are like Kingsford charcoals um 18 inches above that is the rail and they put the baby backs here bone side down no seasoning interesting 45 minutes flip it for the last 15 um mop it with like a vinegar mop they wouldn't tell me what's in it we're pretty sure it was kind of vinegar based crack it's just vinegar based crack just on there just crack mop spots and um and then they finit and they pull them out after an hour and then they hit them up with the rub which is their Greek immigrants but the father trained in uh Louisiana so he's got Cajun meets Greek herbs and that's the dry rub and that's their signature rib and it's yeah I've not heard anyone doing it that sort of way you hear about like three two one you talk about people having it on for ages ages more two two one than three two one because they're not as big as the American stupid ribs but just two two one's great yeah our rib I when a guy told me I was like our you're you're you're shitting me and he's like no go talk to the pit master he's been here 30 years and his son's over there on that pit go talk to Ernie and his boy I'm like okay yeah he's like yeah an hour and they and their slaw was a mustard slaw and it was delicious.

DJ BBQ 58:03

I've I always had creamy slaws or vinegar slaws and I never had a mustard slaw and it was so good. And I love experiencing new barbecue yeah I love seeing I love seeing something new that's exciting that's I think that's what's so exciting for me is learning new techniques like Piedmont region of Carolina outside Brown my buddy Tyson Ho uh he was doing whole hog in Bushwick New York and there's only 11 restaurants in America doing whole hog it's it's a lot of work cooking a whole hog and if you don't do it don't do it right it it starts there are different muscles and it looks like powded ham if you don't hit it right and he would sit in restaurants all around the Carolinas and just sit there and watch what the locals order because they would order off menu. And then what they would order was called outside brown which is the burnt ends of the pork shoulder they want that oxidation that you know the bats have rendered and uh he put it on his menu in in brook in in New York in Brooklyn I go how you only get so much he's like I cut it in big slabs and so I made more circumference area. So at SoCal we did it look because I because I I I showed him how I do I prepped a shoulder and then but I already had one cooking all night because it takes 18 hours so I pulled that for him but I had the shoulder that I prepped in season and then we just took out the the blade bone made these big fat steaks and then cooked them with a mopping sauce and it was one of the best things I've ever eaten. I think they're also called Indiana steaks. Oh okay I think Adam Purnell Shropshire Lattice actually I told him the technique and he put it on his menu at Emverse um so again off menu items become menu items and that's so Indiana Steaks, try it, man. Get burnt ends of the poor shoulder world. There you go. Try that over there, Dan. Yeah, sounds good.

Owen 1:00:11

So I I want to change the pace a little bit and just go up to um for all the great food that we're talking about. Um, one of the things that we hold very dear on the on the podcast is barbecue fails. We want to hear some of the things that haven't gone so well. So, have you got any stories that you can tell us uh about some uh fails?

Next Toys: Pizza Ovens And Styles

DJ BBQ 1:00:32

I've man, I never yeah, man. Jesus. Um I think my first event I did with shoulder, I kept show I was so excited to show everybody the smoker. I just kept opening up the thing and letting people look. And if you're looking, you ain't cooking and I I struggle. I mean it was cooked, but I struggled to pull. And that didn't feel good. Uh and I've and I've and I remember I think one of my first briskets I did, because the KJ is still direct, even with the bathroom plates. I think I might have left it there a bit long and then it got a bit of that crunchy bottom, you know. Uh and if you overdo a shoulder, man, it's just some dry ass pork. Uh so I mean I've had, yeah. There are a few and far between these days, which feels good, but yeah, I've I've not cooked my barbecue right a bunch. Um I think Epic fails. I try to, yeah, try not to think about them too often. But yeah, there's there's there's plenty. Yeah, I think it I think it was the first time I cooked shoulder. And and I remember or maybe my first time doing, I think my first time really doing mass briskets, they just I wasn't getting the briskets I needed, you know. And a lot of times the butchers wouldn't give me the full packer, it was always a flat. And I'm like, if you're gonna, and then I just like and then and people that's why British people get upset with brisket. I'm like, because you're not doing, you're not getting what you need, which is that that that flat and that point. Um if you get a flat and it's rolled, if I was this is how I tell people fix that, sear it, salt and pepper, sear it, and then put it in a bath and pot roast it, you know, or slow cook it like you would like for a biria or like you know a beef, yeah, beef stock. Oh and but yeah, don't I don't think you can slow cook a flat. You can you can slow cook the you can I saw the guys from one of the best places in Texas, blacks were a big grill, and they did like a they took the full packer and they cut off um the the the flat bit and just left the flat and the point so they could fit on like a Weber. You know, because you can actually, you know, you can't fit a full packer on a Weber, but it's it's a lot of work to really to really do that. But yeah, that's a kind of an easier, not easier, but you know, it's like that big instead of that big. But yeah, oh and yeah, I we've all fucked up. And I'm I'm sure I'll fuck up some more.

Dan 1:03:24

I my most recent was um did a curry, so did like the chicken skewers uh over over the fire in the comado, and um I'd I'd watched something online and they talked about using a comado like a tando, and actually the clay on the side and trying to put the the noise directly on that. I couldn't get that to work, that was a mess. That was a big mess, and my arms did not enjoy being that close to the knee either. No, oh my, you're trying to use it as a tandoor. I'd seen stuff online talk about it, and I was like, well, I've already taken the chicken out, I've got plenty of dough, I can still do them, um, which I ended up doing on like a flat top, but inside over the buttons like while I'm here, let's try it. And um, that was that was fun to clean up, I'll tell you.

DJ BBQ 1:04:11

Wow, that's a good way of losing your arm here.

Dan 1:04:14

Oh, and and dignity, time, um, teaching children swear words, that sort of thing.

DJ BBQ 1:04:20

I've got a scar here from I was uh working my firebox, and I had about 21 full, 22 full-size pork shoulders in there. So between like 4.5 and six kilos. They're big and they're and um and I'm moving them around. So the gloves are kind of there's a lot of pork fat on them. And then I went to my firebox to fill it up, and I just because I just kept on moving them all around and wrapping them and putting them in bed. Um, when I say put to bed, I cook my shoulder for about five to six hours. Once I get the mahogany color, I wrap them in peach paper and then I slow and low all night because I want to get a little bit of sleep. But I've got to fill that firebox up. And I was moving things around in the firebox, adding coals, and a bunch of hot coals flu flipped off some of the logs into my glove because the glove was wet from the pork fat, I couldn't eat it off in time. So I'm all I can feel is these these coals just searing holes right here. Oh man, that hurt, and I still got scars from it. And um, and then I had to go to America to shoot the TV show, and I've just got scabs everywhere here. Oh god, didn't look good. The director's like, yes, wear a long sleeve. I'm like, it's 40 degrees out, and they go, Yes, wear a long sleeve. There's a fail for you. Yeah, it's a good lesson though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make sure you can take those gloves off.

Dan 1:05:50

Oh, that's put literally put the hairs on my back on end. There's nothing worse than that burning feeling, but to know that you're trapped with it as well.

DJ BBQ 1:05:58

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's it. You're you're you're trapped. I can't, I was like, just couldn't get it off. Oh, that was the worst. Um, Owen, do you got a fail for us? Uh I don't I don't have a recent fail.

Owen 1:06:15

Good, good job.

DJ BBQ 1:06:16

You're doing good.

Owen 1:06:17

Yeah, uh, yeah, thank you.

unknown 1:06:19

Thank you.

Owen 1:06:20

Uh uh no, yeah, no, nothing in particular. Uh just uh some standard stuff. I cooked some I cooked a couple of bits the other night. Um I was doing a whole I rotisseried a turkey thigh and a whole butternut squash. Um uh and then I was doing also a bit of uh uh T-bone steak and uh I was just doing a medley of things really. Uh and I got to the point where I was really happy with these vine tomatoes that I'd grilled and uh mushrooms and stuff like that, and then bloody dropped them in the coals. Uh just you know, like to the point where because of all the rotisserie and stuff, I couldn't actually reach them. So then I had to restart again with my tomatoes and veg. So that was a bit annoying.

Dan 1:07:06

I know what you're like though, uh your brain would have gone, it's ruins, there's no point now. Borderline thrown the rotisserie away.

DJ BBQ 1:07:12

But dirty cooking's a great way of cooking, you know.

Owen 1:07:16

It it it is, but it was just because the rotisserie was on. Uh I I just I couldn't get to it in time without I'd have had to take it the whole lot apart just to get uh okay, yeah, because everything was still going. So um I roast I had potatoes on there, is that I'd have literally had to take about 10 things out, and it was a bit bit frustrating. So I you know I lost a few bits. Are you okay?

Dan 1:07:41

I don't think it is.

Owen 1:07:42

No, no, I'm clearly annoyed about it, aren't I? I hadn't thought about it until you just asked, uh, and now I've annoyed myself.

DJ BBQ 1:07:53

Oh dear. Um so fails, they make us stronger.

Live-Fire History And Electric Trends

Owen 1:07:58

They do, but they're generally funny. They're generally funny in some way, shape, or form. So what I'd love for what we'd love to do as well um is our barbecue bingo challenge. Um now we've put together a really high tech, spent a lot of money on this re uh wheel of uh ingredients that we've got. Um, however, all of our previous guests have left something. So we we've not added to it for a very, very long time. So we'd like to spin the wheel. If an ingredient that it lands on, we'd love for you to do a cook with something that's on the list.

DJ BBQ 1:08:38

Okay.

Owen 1:08:39

Um, but we'd also like you to leave um uh an ingredient for for for next guests.

DJ BBQ 1:08:45

So you see you see the tripe up there? I had a tripe taco from Jonathan Sawyer at Mietopia one year. I hosted Miitopia for 10 years, and and he made me this taco made of tripe. And I was like, oh, I just don't really know if I really want to eat tripe. It's one of the best things I've ever eaten. Really? Oh my lord. Oh my lord, was it good? Um oh it's it's not one I jump up into straight, I don't think. No, but it's fun to be surprised. Yes, true, yeah.

Dan 1:09:18

Absolutely. Oh, the interesting thing for me is so all the ingredients you're seeing have been left by other guests. Now, when we first started doing this 90 odd episodes ago, Owen and I were quite nice, and we put and the more we've handed it over to other people, okay. Don't get me wrong, scallops is nice, rabbits are interesting, frog legs is different, but you've got tripe, kangaroo, um, things like white pudding, chicken hearts, alligator. Um, it has kind of become its own beast in one sense, but don't feel you have to be harsh on people. You can put nice things on there as well. But there's one thing on there called my signature dish, which we always say to people, look, if it goes on that, what are you known for? What's your kind of signature? So, from your point of view, what would be your signature dish?

DJ BBQ 1:10:06

It's either it's either my pulled pork sandwich, which I've served a shit ton of it. I mean, we're doing 72 to 80 a weekend at full size pork shoulders.

Dan 1:10:17

That's probably boring for you then.

DJ BBQ 1:10:21

Tomato pie. Tomato pie is is the grandma dish that is really kind of we're known for. Um, so I think that's one of my signature dishes is my tomato pie. Sounds good.

Owen 1:10:32

Right, let's give it a spin and see what it says.

DJ BBQ 1:10:35

Okay.

Dan 1:10:39

People on YouTube will love this, the listeners, it's just silence.

DJ BBQ 1:10:44

Oh, geez. Vindaloo pain. You know, how are you with spice? I I'm pretty good. I've done a lot of chili challenges, which has actually really wrecked my my internal. But you know, you know, I mean, Vindaloo really, the name came from uh the transportation of of meats uh by the Portuguese, you know, as they went to Goa and all these places around the world to preserve the meats and wine and bin.

Speaker 3 1:11:13

Yeah.

DJ BBQ 1:11:13

You know, it it there, yes, there were spices there, but it wasn't meant to be blow your head off. But that it's kind of the Vindaloo and the the falls, the fowls that have gone really hot. Um, Vindaloo kind of next day can mean Vindu Pooh or Pooh Kingdom. But the the original Vindaloo, you know, it's all about preserving. Yeah, that's what barbecue is smoke, sugar, salt, curing, and just preserving meats. So yeah, I'm I I look forward to that. You ready for my ingredient? Yes, please, yeah. Just because I worked with weekend two dishes, and it it, you know, it's it's gonna be I'm throwing one in there, marshmallow. Marshmallow, nice because that that'll that uh it's different, right?

Dan 1:12:03

Yeah, it's very different. And for listeners, we were talking just before we uh started recording, a bit behind the curtain, as it were, and um, you were telling us the joint about Ambrosia salad.

DJ BBQ 1:12:16

Sorry, before we start, I did Thanksgiving this weekend, and we I grew up with a salad that should not have the word salad anywhere near it, but it involves like a sweet, sweet cream, like a whipped cream, like we uh we call it cool whip in America, it comes out of a tub. Uh but I I whipped ambrosia custard with some double cream, and then I folded some yogurt in there to kind of unsweeten it. And then uh it's a lot of canned fruit because grandmas in the Midwest would just serve me, you know, canned to table kind of food. Uh, so lots of like mandarin oranges and fruit cocktails uh with desiccated coconut in there, and then marshmallows. You add them in near the end so they kind of keep their integrity.

Dan 1:13:08

Is there any dignity and integrity with that?

DJ BBQ 1:13:12

Yeah, that's an oxymoron right there, right? Oh, anyway, I made it and uh I made two batches, one with marshmallows, one without. No one, no one hardly anybody touched it. There's still two bowls in my fridge, they're huge, and I just don't know what to do with them. Like keep thinking I can make a breakfast with it or something, or add it with some granola.

Dan 1:13:37

There's a lot of sugar there for the start of the day, to be fair.

DJ BBQ 1:13:40

I did do so. They do a candied yams with marshmallows in the States that's kind of famous. And I did a I did a sweet potato and marshmallows, but I did it two ways again. I did just normal ones, uh, and then I did one with marshmallows. And they they went down to storm. I was like quite surprised. So yeah, there you go. If you if you're gonna add any kind of brown sugar to something, maybe use the the marshmallows as your uh as your sweetness. I don't I don't really need much sweet, but it's all about balancing flavors. I love tang, I love vinegar, but also uh a chef told me, you know, it's all you gotta balance things, so don't be afraid to add a little sugar every now and then. I'm like, okay. I was a bit of a pedantic for a long time. I just wanted tang. I think it's because I drink beer, and then I sort of realized, okay, I gotta add, I gotta balance these flavors a bit more, you know, the fats, the vinegars, the tang, the the acid, and then a little bit of sweet. It works. But I mean, what is barbecue sauce? It's it's sugar, tomatoes, and vinegar, and then you play with enough to give it the complexities. Um, but that's why I kind of prefer white sauces, because there's there's none or very little sugar. It gives me that kind of that tang, that that moorishness like you get with pickles. Yeah.

Dan 1:15:01

You don't want to give it in the UK, do you? White like a white sauce barbecue sauce.

Kit Collections, Downsizing, And Traeger Talk

DJ BBQ 1:15:06

I mean, it's it yeah, I mean, I I make I I make it all the time and I teach people how to make it, but it's just vinegar and mayonnaise and lots of cracked pepper. Um, I add like kind of charred lemon juice and horseradish and a bit of Worcester sauce to it, just to kind of add complexity. But also a lot of people add sugar. But you can you you can add it, you can double dip your and triple dip your chicken into it, you know, and and as long as it's like got if it's almost a store-bought mayonnaise, because if you make the mayonnaise, it'll split, you know, you gotta be careful split. But Chris Lilly from uh Big Bob Gibson, he showed me his version, and he has a really runny and he has used distilled vinegar with really low uh low content. So he has a really uh mild tang. It's all about just less is more for him and and Big Bob Gibson who put it on the map, the northern Alabama. That's my favorite sauce of all the sauces.

Dan 1:16:05

I need to look into recipes and actually start doing some myself because I've heard so many people talk about it, and it's it's not something I by the time I've cooked stuff, I go into the larder, I always think, oh, I should have I should have done that. So there you go. That's my homework for the weekend.

DJ BBQ 1:16:20

Make a big bowl of white sauce, uh Alabama white sauce, and then uh have a a thinner version for dipping and then a thicker version for serving on the table. So split it and add a bit more vinegar, and then just keep putting your chicken. And once it's like halfway through or two-thirds through, just keep dipping it and putting it back on the grill so it kind of sets in. Oh, nice. Because there's no sugar in there, you can keep doing it, it won't burn.

Speaker 3 1:16:46

Yeah, yeah.

DJ BBQ 1:16:47

God, sounds so good. That that sauce.

Owen 1:16:53

So um it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. As uh as we kind of come to the close, is there anything that we haven't discussed yet that you you know you wanted to share with share with the group? No, I'm I'm I want to go on to pizza. The takeaway from this whole thing, pizza.

DJ BBQ 1:17:14

Yeah, that's that's that's my I think that's my next journey is to just you know, we've written a lot of pizza recipes in our books, but I really want to I I love serving barbecue, but I really choppy's gone into pizza. If you go to his pop-ups, he's serving pizza. It's fun. And I and and and I it's what we eat, you know. We love eating burgers, we love eating. Oh, my favorite burger. Uh, if you see an Oklahoma on the menu, get get an Oklahoma. They smash like paper thin onions into the beef, you know, and you and that's like, and get it, get it animal style, like with a mustard crust. That's like my favorite burger. Double, double smash Oklahoma style onion burger with a mustard uh crust. That's my favorite burger. My favorite steaks are ribeye. Uh I love a fish taco. Um, I have four kids, Blue, Noah, Frazier, and now Della, which is the name of our smoker. Then we named a kid uh Della, which my missus doesn't really like. That we have a smoker called Della, and we have a beer called Della. Um, but it's my grandma. My grandma, I got I got raised by grandparents when I was going through all the crazy kidnappings and divorces as a as a as an eight-year-old. So uh grandmas mean a lot to me, and that's where I learned how to cook, grandmas and grandpa's.

Dan 1:18:37

That's where the soul is in cooking, right? It feels like.

Radiant Heat, Whole Cow, And True Barbecue

DJ BBQ 1:18:41

Yeah. So I spent half my summer in Virginia Beach with grandma and granddaddy, and and he would take me fishing on the Atlantic. And this is my favorite childhood memory. Here we go. Before I leave you, I'd go out. My Uncle Rip was the he drove the PBR beer truck past Blue Ribbon. It's a very Americana beer, and he would unload 10 cases for granddaddy every so granddaddy just had a fridge in the next to the washer and dryer that just was full of beer, and he just drank. So on the way to the boat, which is about a half an hour drive, he'd kill two or three cans. And he'd have a can outside of grandma's house with a pull tab, and then he'd pull over on the sub the highway and he'd give me the keys and say, he'd go through every uh kid's name in the family before he got to mine. He'd get through a couple dogs' names before he said, He'd go, Rill, which is his son, and Pam, which is my mom, Beth, Tiffany, Rambler, uh, Spanky, Punch. And then he would just say, Chief, go and why don't you go on back at Granddaddy Bear? And I run down the car, open it up, and he's missing fingers because he got drunk and the fan belt broke on the boat, and he went to grab it, he ripped his fingers off. Drill sergeant in the army, you Know gnarly, and he'd go out and he'd kill a case of beer with his brother, and they got so hammered they would pass out. And we're out in the Atlantic. But my dad was a navigational officer on deck uh in the Navy. He was picking up Gemini 11 uh when it would splash down. So my dad was calling. He knew he knew he was a communications officer on deck and he was navigations officer on deck. So he would he knew how to read horizons. So I learned how to read horizons as a young kid. So I was actually looking forward to my my pet my my granddaddy and my uncle Rip, my uncle Seely passing out. I could bring the boat in. Uh it's a pretty big entrance. It's where all the big naval shipyard was. So I it's a big jetty to get through. Um and I and I could read all the lights on the horizon when that time we're coming in. So we would get in, he would dock it because he wouldn't let me dock it. He'd always come too um from his drunken stupor. And then um we would then clean fish for hours. So we come in with 150, 175 fish we would catch, because this is the Atlantic in the 70s. And he would cut the head off, and then I would just I would slice the uh right here on the fish, and I'd pull all the guts out, and we put them in these uh tumble dryer things that would descale them. And then grandma would save all the plastic bags for the bread, and we would just fill everything with uh like three or four fish, tie it up, and put it in an igloo cooler on ice, and he'd fill two of them. And on the way home, we would stop off at everybody's houses, like all the friends and family, drop off fresh fish, and they would get the bounty from their backyard, fruit, veg, bread they they baked. Uh, maybe they got some meat, they they they butchered a pig. And we would come home with all this stuff that we kind of just just gave people stuff because we had a bounty of fish. And uh, and that way of living was one of my favorite memories of of childhood was just and then coming home and having a fish fry. And that's how we ate it. You know, we didn't grill it. Grandma would roll in cornmeal and uh cook it in lard and this big cast iron skillet with spoon bread, all these kind of southern dishes. And to me, that was like my favorite memory of food as a child, yeah. And that's community and it's part as well. Yeah, it is community, it's family, it's community, it's yeah, it's fishing. Yeah, so I'll I'll leave you with that little story because that's one of my favorites growing up.

Owen 1:22:39

I appreciate it. I said it's been an absolute pleasure. We've been so excited to have you on. Um, and uh no doubt we'll bump into you uh again next year into the into the festival season.

DJ BBQ 1:22:49

Well, next time you come to the festival, come and hang out and uh feed you. Oh, done. There you go. It's a contract signed. Thanks for the invite and thanks for for the chat. I appreciate it.

Owen 1:23:02

Well, yeah, we'll let you know when it comes out.

Dan 1:23:04

Thanks so much, Christian. Cheers. Don't worry, thanks, Dan. Thanks, everyone.

Owen 1:23:07

See you later. Cheers.

Dan 1:23:09

Bye.

Owen 1:23:10

That's it for another episode of the Meet and Greek Barbecue podcast. Wow, what an episode! Uh, so great, great to speak to Christian, DJ Barbecue. Uh no doubt most of you have seen him at some festival, or you've read his book, or you've tried his rubs, or you've watched him on YouTube. Uh, truly a fountain of knowledge. Um, really great to have him on. Um, as ever, we want to hear from you. Do please reach out uh on our social channels. Um, and until next time, keep on grilling.

Dan 1:23:52

Today's episode of the Meet and Greek Barbecue Podcast is brought to you by AOS Outdoor Kitchens. They are the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists.