Mom on Purpose

Discover What's Right for You: Therapy vs Coaching

• Lara Johnson

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Imagine discovering that your path to personal growth and mental well-being has more options than you thought. Today, we welcome Dr. Emma Mansour, a licensed psychologist and clinical director of Life Matters Counseling and Psychological Services, as she opens up about her journey from aspiring lawyer to dedicated psychologist.

Together, we explore the critical distinctions between therapy and coaching, helping you understand when it's important to seek each type of support.

We also navigate the often challenging journey of finding the right therapist and establishing a strong therapist-client relationship. This episode is a heartfelt and informative guide to understanding when to seek therapy versus coaching for personal growth and mental well-being.

What you'll learn in this episode:  

  • The unique roles and boundaries of therapy and coaching
  • Recognizing changes in behavior and emotional states that may signal the need for therapy
  • Steps to find the right therapist and the importance of a strong therapist-client relationship
  • The importance of self-advocacy in therapy
  • Guidance on seeking the right support for mental well-being

Dr. Emma Mansour's Bio:

Dr. Emma Mansour is a licensed psychologist specializing in individual therapy and psychological testing. With over 14 years of therapy experience and as a graduate of the University of Utah's Counseling Psychology program, in addition to providing individual therapy, she also specializes in psychological testing and she is the founder of Life Matters: Counseling and Psychological Services.

Her mission is to help you lead a meaningful and fulfilling life by guiding you through life's challenges and towards your values and goals.

Using ACT principles, she combines mindfulness strategies and behavioral change techniques to help you accept difficult emotions and thoughts. This approach enables you to commit to actions that align with your values. By fostering psychological flexibility, she empowers you to navigate stress, anxiety, depression, and life transitions with resilience and purpose.

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How to Connect with Lara:

Web: www.larajohnsoncoaching.com

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Facebook: www.facebook.com/larajohnsoncoaching

Work with Lara: www.larajohnsoncoaching.com/work-with-me/

Welcome to the Mom On Purpose podcast. I'm Lara Johnson and I'm here to teach you how to get out of your funk, be in a better mood, play more with your kids, manage your home better, get your to-do list done and live your life on purpose. With my proven method, this is possible for you, and I'll show you how. 

You're not alone anymore. We're in this together.

All right, welcome back to the Mom on Purpose podcast. I have an amazing, amazing guest today for you, and I have to apologize because I don't actually know how to say your last name. I just always call you Dr Emma. So, Emma, how do you say your last name? 

Emma (Guest)

It's Emma Mansour so it's almost as if it has two O's. 

Lara (Host)

Okay, I'm pretty sure that's how I always pronounce it, but I was never sure if I was saying it right. 

So, I just started calling you Dr Emma, because I was embarrassed, so I do apologize for that. So, we have Dr Mansour on the podcast today and we have been gosh. I don't even know how we met each other years ago, maybe you remember, but I've followed you for a very long time on social media and we kind of have collaborated and we've just barely started like integrating coaching into her therapy practice, which is I'm so excited about. So, you're at the very like you're hearing this podcast on the like beginning cusp of this amazing experience that we're about to embark on. So I wanted to have her on the podcast today so that we can talk a little bit about the difference between therapy and coaching and when it is important to see a therapist and how we can know what we can take to therapy and what is really coaching material, cause I really think that's important to differentiate between the two. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. So welcome, Dr. Mansour. Why don't you just share a little bit about you and just a brief introduction? 

Emma (Guest)

First off, I'd say my clients call me Emma, so that is totally fine. 

Lara (Host)

Okay, all right, you worked hard for that doctor. 

Emma (Guest)

So, you know, part of my approach is to actually be very friendly and collegial, and so I feel like how much this works makes things less complicated. But yes. 

I am a licensed psychologist and the owner and clinical director of a practice in Farmington called Life Matters Counseling and Psychological Services, and at the practice we offer a range of services, so therapy obviously is one of them. We do psychological testing. Laura, you're also there to do the coaching piece. We have some ADHD coaching, reiki and some recently added ketamine-assisted psychotherapy so quite the variety of services. We do take most insurances, so that is something that's important to know and we do have a sliding fee scale for people who might need something more affordable. 

Lara (Host)

I think that's fantastic and what an amazing opportunity, because finding good therapists is very hard and we have people that listen to this podcast all over the world, which is fantastic. This is what she's sharing is more local information, which I love. So please, please, please, because we have so many local listeners, please come see Emma, Dr Emma, so tell me a little bit about why you wanted to become a therapist like what? Or a psychologist, excuse me, what was it that really drew you into that field? 

Emma (Guest)

You know originally. So, my father's an attorney and I was like you know what, following in dad's footsteps, that's how it's going to be came to you know an 11th grade or so and it's like, yep, going to apply to go to college, go to law school. And then my high school offered a psychology class, and I was like, oh well, that's really interesting. And it was sort of probably the first time where I really looked forward to going to class and I just loved every minute of that class. I thought you know what? I think this is what I should do. If it's this exciting, then I'm going to go and sort of hear that calling and that's where I ended up. 

Lara (Host)

I love that. I love that you mentioned, like your calling because that's what we talk so much about on the podcast is when there's something stirring inside of you like you can't deny that, like there's something that just like lights up inside, like you said, it just made you excited to go to class. There it's. It's almost like this intrigue, like you can't get enough of this, like really good thing, and it didn't feel like work. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's always some aspect of work that does come in eventually, but when you're learning about these things, oh, that fire is just so much fun. So, thank you for sharing that. I never asked you that before, so I was kind of curious. Do you remember how we met? 

Emma (Guest)

It was online. Yeah, not quite sure. It might have been in some community networking group. 

Like that. I know I used to watch your videos you would post with your whiteboard. 

Lara (Host)

What funny whiteboard I of practice staring at the camera without it being on. So, yes, but I do love my whiteboard. All my listeners know that. So, let's talk a little bit about some of our experiences with therapy, because I do think you know, as coaches, some of our experiences with therapy, because I do think you know, as coaches, I love coaching, I love the space of coaching. I think it's so fantastic. But I also really love therapy and therapy was kind of like my gateway drug into coaching, because I learned so many amazing things and I kind of entered that through postpartum depression. That was the first time I had seen a therapist. And this last year I kind of felt something shifting in my body again to the point where I was seeing some patterns that I knew I wanted to address with a therapist. So, I started seeing a therapist again. So, I am very, very grateful for the experiences I've had in therapy. So, I wondered if there's anything specific that you love about therapy. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, I thought about this question, and you know it comes up sometimes for clients who are new in the therapy space, and sometimes the question is a variation of you know well, so how does this work, you know, and along the same lines of sort of like why does this work? So, I thought you know, and along the same lines of sort of like why does this work? So, I thought, you know what, what are some of the you know sort of essentials of therapy that make it healing? And I think it's about self-awareness, right? So, sort of building that understanding of who we are translates into resilience, learning some coping skills, how to manage life without getting completely overwhelmed. It improves relationships. 

So, a lot of times people come into therapy for relationship issues. So, I think the more we understand ourselves, the better we are at connecting and understanding others. It's really a safe space for reflection and I think for some people that's a hard space to find. So, a place where there's, you know, non-judgment and positive regard and just this general sense that you know we are working together for you. So that really individual space for people, and you know, the other side of that is, you know, so some people think that they have to come in and crisis right. So, it's got to be like this really big thing happening and if my life's just everyday Joe life, then I shouldn't go to therapy. And I think that, yes, therapy is good for some transitions that happen in life, but it's also there for everyday challenges, right? Okay, I need to navigate these situations with more confidence or a little more ease or a little more balance, right, and just being able to bounce ideas off of another person is really helpful. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, I found that going to a third party person that wasn't involved in my life, that I could have these discussions with, where maybe I didn't want to share intimate details about my marriage with somebody in my family or with my friends or you know things like that where and not just like my marriage, but with children, and you know even things that were happening in my own mind and my own body and that's when I really started to recognize having a third party person is such a sacred responsibility for us. Well, for me as a coach like I've always felt that, but I know that you feel that too as a therapist, and I love what you said, like that safe place for reflection where there's no judgment, and I think that is such a beautiful way to describe therapy. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, you know, a lot of a lot of clients will, you know, apologize for being emotional. That's, that's the thing that gets me. Every time, you know, I'm so sorry that I'm crying. I'm like, no, no, this is the space to do that. And you know, in some ways I think that's a really good difference between your friends and your therapist, right, like when you're crying with your friends, you're like, oh, I'm so sorry, I don't mean to cry and bring everyone down, but then, you know, when you're in the therapy room, it's like, no, that's, that's exactly what you know. If it's that emotional for you here, then that's, this is the space to do that. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, yeah, I've always felt that in the space that I've been in with a therapist and I'm grateful, Like those are life changing moments for me and I think sometimes people can get scared of like well, what's going to come out when I'm in therapy or how can I really look at this. And I think for me it was always very open and guided to where I felt comfortable going and it always felt like the next door opened as soon as I was stable and secure. It was like the next little bit open. You're like, oh, I haven't seen that for a while. It's coming back up Now. It's time to address that. So, it was never like I walked into a therapy office, and we had to dive into like all these heavy things. And I think you know, going back to what you said, it's that safe place of discovery and, yeah, I think that's a really incredible skill that you all have to allow for that. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, there's a saying in the psych world that says you know, meet your client where they're at. No, no good is going to come from us pushing too hard, going too fast. You know, at the end of the day, the space is for the client and meeting them where they're at is what they need. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, and also, just to go back to what you were saying, it doesn't have to be when you're in crisis. I think for me because I've been in crisis and saw a therapist that was the first time like postpartum depression, and this time I was not in crisis by any means, but I still could feel that shift in me. And I think for me, having gone through a lot of stuff with my kids as well and I've talked about that on the podcast where we have been in crisis as well, and I've talked about that on the podcast where we have been in crisis already having a connection with a therapist, already having a relationship when life does bring the hard things, you're not on a wait list for six months trying to find someone, like they already know what's happening in your life and you have that safe place already built so you can bring those big things when life gets really hard. 

Emma (Guest)

That's a really good, important point that people might want to know sort of how this works. So, you know, eventually you stop seeing your therapist, at least that's the goal, right, and not because we don't like you, we want you to stay forever. But you know you're ready to move on and then we've done good work together. But then life happens again, right. So, some something else goes on. 

You know there's a major change or something you didn't expect, right, or something you did, but you realized that this was a little harder than last time because something was different about it. Being able to have a therapist and, even if it's been six months, right, being able to text or call and say, hey, I really could use some, you know, sessions again or some time. The way I tend to work is, if you're a former client, you're not at the end of the wait list, you go right to the top, and so in that sense you know I will make time, just because it's like you said, like we I know the backstory we can get in, even if it's been a few months, and start right where we left off and fill in the details in between. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, I love that. That's such a gift to give to all of your clients because I think we've all been to that spot before and you don't want to have to start over every time and we'll talk about that on like the way to find like the best fit for a therapist in a little bit. But yeah, I always tell my clients like when, if they're feeling the need, like there's some things they want to take to therapy, or say, well, just remember, it's kind of I call it therapy dating Like you have to find the right way. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, yeah. 

Lara (Host)

So, knowing that somebody has already dated you, Emma, they're able to come back, which I think is such a gift. So, when we're talking about therapy and coaching and this is probably the number one question that I get as a life coach, like what is the difference between therapy and coaching? And in my mind, it's very clear, but I think sometimes out in the world it's not as clear. So, I love to have that discussion on when do you like, what is that difference and when do you see someone going to coaching and when do you see someone going to therapy? 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, and I completely understand why it can be confusing because on the surface they look very much alike, right, but really there I think there are some key differences. So, therapy, for instance, would be more focused on mental health and emotional healing. So, it's about maybe more digging into your past right, exploring things like trauma or patterns that might be holding you back from something. The therapist is there to diagnose and treat mental health issues like anxiety, depression, PTSD and so on. So, it's about healing and improving psychological well-being. And I think coaching is a bit different in that it may be more future-oriented. So, we're future-oriented and maybe goal-driven. So instead of looking back at what's happened, we're looking forward. So that could be your career relationship that you're setting goals, making plans and staying accountable. So, in that way it may be less about diving deep into psychological issues and more about sort of unlocking potential. Maybe it's a good way of achieving specific outcomes. 

Lara (Host)

I love that in my coaching program we talk about emotional processing and there's been instances, and I'll share this you know where, as we're learning like day-to-day skills on, like, hey, I feel anxiety. What do I do with that? You know, like very simple things. Sometimes these big patterns do start to arise and there have been times where you know we've stopped and I said you know, this is something I would definitely take to a therapist, because this is a different space than coaching and I think making sure, like if you are working with a life coach, that they know where that line is. Because that's where, like, I want to make sure, as you know, doing my due diligence for my you know, doing my due diligence for my, you know, for my career and for my community of coaches we need to know, we need to know where that line is and be very clear on that. And so, anybody listening to this, if you ever work with a coach like I, would really challenge you to ask them if they know where that line is. 

And that's where I find that, like this last year, I started seeing, like you said, some of those patterns from my past starting to creep up, and it was not like I always tell my clients, if you're trying to work on mindset and you're throwing things at the wall and nothing's sticking, there's usually some emotional processing that needs to happen. Yeah, so that's where I started. Seeing I was throwing things at the wall. I'm like, oh, none of these are sticking. There's something deeper going on here, which I then was able to take to therapy to really uncover some of that, which is cool. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, maybe a quick example could be helpful. Make one up on the fly here. So, you know, let's take Sarah. I'll call her Sarah and she's, you know, maybe generally handling things. Well, you know, let's say she's a new mom, which would work right, just generally handling things. Okay. She just needs a few tools to help sort of manage her time better, maybe have more life balance right. So, prioritizing some self-care work on some specific goals, I think that she would be a great coaching client. You know there's some anxiety there and that's maybe why these tasks are really hard for her. But let's take same Sarah, and anxiety is still an issue, but now it's affecting her sleep, right? Or she's starting to have panic attacks, or perhaps it's tied to some unresolved trauma in her past. That's sort of resurfacing, and so I think in that case, you know, Sarah is now a better fit for therapy. 

Lara (Host)

I love that and it's so cool to see how when someone is seeing a therapist they come back to coaching and it's a totally different experience. And it's always amazing to me that when those things are healed from the inside out, things like time management are different, things like you know managing your house and your kids and you know finding what that calling is it becomes so much more possible when you've really addressed those things from the inside out. So that kind of leads into and we kind of talked about it already, you know. The next question that I had kind of planned on was like when to seek a therapist. What are some of the signs and symptoms I guess you could say when someone knows to go see a therapist, and then I'll share kind of like where I'm always at looking for clients into myself. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, I think there, you know, at the end of the day, it's about how much of an impact the issues you're struggling with have on your day-to-day functioning. You know, so it could be. You know and there's a spectrum here, right, so it could be you're in a new relationship and you're jumping to conclusions too fast about what their intentions are, or meanings are behind what they're saying. That's causing friction. That might be on like the lower end, like you know what this is impacting my relationships. I don't quite know why I'm making these assumptions, and so maybe I need to go look into sort of better communication or why I think that begin with, and then it could be on the more you know the end of things where it's harder. 

So maybe you know, like we said, panic attacks, not being able to focus at work, maybe getting written up at work because we're taking too many days off, sleeping too much, being irritable, right, for reasons that don't seem to make sense, so being more irritable with the people around you crying more easily that seems to be one that people notice pretty significantly. 

It's like, wow, I'm really emotional lately. That can be something that comes up. So, basically, anything where the norm changes and maybe you're not able to keep a grip on or handle the day-to-day the way you used to, and you're not quite sure why. For some people it can be remembering pasts that all of a sudden come up. So, for new moms, there's a lot of stuff that comes up about their own childhood that they weren't prepared for and that can make them more emotional or more irritable. And that shift or that change it's making it hard for you to show up in ways that you want to are good reasons to come in and say, hey, maybe there's something going on here. I don't, I can't access that easily on my own. 

Lara (Host)

I know. For me that was very much the case. One of the symptoms that I saw was I get a mouth like a sailor because I'm cursing and I'm like I've never been someone that swears a lot. What is happening? Why am I swearing over something that seems very insignificant? So that was always one that, like I knew as soon as that started coming up there was a shift happening in my body. But I love what you said about when the norm starts to change, and that's one thing. 

Since I already knew postpartum depression was my history and it was going to be going forward, I made a promise to myself that I'd start kind of keeping track of how many rough days do I have where I'm not able to keep a grip or handle, versus how many are okay. Because the first time I went to go see a therapist, it kind of tripped me out a little bit because I'd have all these really bad days and then I'd have a good day and I'm like, okay, well, then I don't need to call someone. I think I'm okay. But then I'd have all these bad days. I'm like, well, what just happened? So, then it was like I just made like a promise to myself If I get over that 50% of having more bad days than good, I would see a therapist, but I also communicated that to my spouse so he was also watching when I couldn't see it, or in my mom as well. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, you know, tracking those things would be really important, even on a calendar, like smiley face for good day, face, brownie face for bad day can be really helpful. And just reflecting on what is happening to me right, for some new moms it's not feeling like they're connecting with their child right. 

That can be a thing that shows up, and I would say therapy would be super helpful there because you can sort of avoid as much as you can obviously heading into shame and feeling like you're a bad mom or not good enough. Any of those types of thoughts would definitely be a therapy might be a good idea for that. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, I remember the first time my therapist said it's okay not to like your kid. 

Emma (Guest)

I just started crying. I was like thank you for saying that we don't like them all the time. 

Lara (Host)

Yes, when I absolutely, absolutely loved my daughter, but she never stopped crying, and I was like. I don't know how I can like this child. She screams at me all day long and, yeah, I hope she never hears this. I absolutely adore her. 

Emma (Guest)

I'm sure they feel the same about us. We love you, mom. 

Lara (Host)

I don't like you all the time, that's so true, it's so true, yeah, so how do you kind of go about finding a good therapist? You know, going back to that like therapy dating, because it can be hard just like there's good and not so great life coaches, there's good and not so great therapists, and there's ones that fit really well and ones that don't fit really well. So how do you go about that? How do you therapy? 

Emma (Guest)

Yes, therapist. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, clarification, thank you. 

Emma (Guest)

I think. Well, first and foremost, they need to be licensed. So, you definitely want a licensed professional, someone who's practicing in their field. You know you can filter down further. So, if it's anxiety looking, someone who's practicing in their field, you know you can filter down further. So, if it's anxiety looking for someone who maybe has anxiety as a specialty, depression, postpartum, all of that you know couples, therapists, grief counselors so there's quite a few different variations. You know that would be first, and then probably really, really up there in importance is personal connection. 

So, research shows us time and time again that it doesn't matter if you know what techniques we're trying, what things we're doing in the therapy room. If the client and the therapist don't have a good relationship, it doesn't work. And that's because you know the key component to therapy is trust. So, you have to trust that your therapist is listening, that they care, that they're not judging you, and if you don't have those things, it just doesn't work. So definitely strong relationship. Now, by strong relationship, I just mean you like this person, you enjoy their style, you get along, you feel like they understand you. And then I think there's some other sort of more nuanced things like this person, you enjoy their style, you get along, you feel like they understand you. And then I think there's some other sort of more nuanced things. 

So cultural competence is a term we throw out in the therapy world, and this just means finding someone who is of your same sort of value system. Or you know, we're in Utah and so often I'll get emails and say, hey, I'm looking for an LDS therapist or looking for a non-LDS therapist. And those are really good questions to ask, right, cause that's sort of as an understanding that like, okay, are you going to be able to understand me, not judge me, et cetera. It's the same things with you know, are you an LGBTQ ally? All of those things come under competence in terms of cultural and social issues. 

And then probably insurance and cost is the next place to go. So, they could be paneled with your insurance. That still doesn't mean that it's covered, so always check with your insurance company saying, hey, I want to start individual therapy, and I want to know how much I would owe per session. So, and more often than not, insurance companies have a list of providers that are paneled with them, so that's a good place to start as well. Also, Psychology Today there's a lot of like online search engines, sort of. You know. Psychology Today is the biggest one about therapy, Zen, and I think there's like GoTherapy or something like that. 

Emma (Guest)

Psychology Today is the biggest return on providers. 

Lara (Host)

Okay, that's really great. This is one question I have all the time from clients, or you know people I've talked to. How do you know when you've made that connection? They're always looking for, like, what's the magic number of sessions that I should have a connection by? Like again, it goes back to dating. I'm like I don't know if there's a magic number. 

Emma (Guest)

So, I was kind of curious your thoughts on that. 

Well, there is actually a magic number-ish and it's between session three and four that most clients are going to understand how to use therapy in their life or what sort of issues to bring in, and they're going to feel a connection with that person. So, the first session it's going to be it's like a first date. You're not going to know anything about this person, right? The therapist is showing up in a very much more of an interview style, just because there's so much information to get in terms of history and presenting concern. And then session two is sort of a little more of that right, like past, that we didn't get to and then just okay, what's happening, or what's going on since we last met? 

Session three tends to making some broad generalizations, but patterns over time. Session three tends to be different and that people are coming in saying, okay, so this happened, right, so now we're getting like this this is my life, this is an incident that's concerning me, let's talk about that. And session four is a lot of like did we try something different? Have you known? Have we thought about anything since we last met that we talked about last time in that issue? 

Sometimes, yeah sometimes people are like, are like nope, because something else happened. That's fine too, but yeah, it's about three or four sessions. I would say that clients are able to be okay, I think I know what I'm doing here and how I'm going to use this time. 

Lara (Host)

I love that and that's really, really good to hear that. You know pattern that kind of emerges on your end, because I think that's kind of where people start to question you know, do I keep going down this route or not? So, here's the other question that I get often when I'm referring people to a therapist is what if they're not a fit? And I find that as women we want to people, please our therapist and not hurt their feelings and always make sure we're not being confrontational or not telling them we like them. So, I was curious if you've ever had that experience where you know you're just not a good fit and you kind of had a breakup. Do they just move on, or do they actually say something to you just out of curiosity? 

Emma (Guest)

it depends. I would prefer that people say something, but it doesn't have to be confrontational, so it could be. You know, I've had clients just outright say like hey, you know you, but I've decided to go a different direction. You know, it's like a breakup. It's not you, it's me. 

Emma (Guest)

Let's say, you know, some people come in from session one and they're saying hey, you know I am meeting with multiple therapists, and I'll get back to you if I want to make another appointment. That's fine too. But yeah, you know, normally if you're with a therapist that's accessible, you should be able to email you know message, somehow get in contact with them to say, hey, thank you for your time, but I'm taking a break right now or I'm moving in a different direction or any of those things would work. 

We don't need great detail. It's implied and we're okay with that. You're not going to hurt our feelings, you know, in fact, yeah, it's more of a oh good, right. This person knows what they're needing is wanting to advocate for themselves, and you know we're not for everyone, right? 

Lara (Host)

And I think for me that was the most refreshing thing was realizing I'm not for everyone, so I can just show up and be myself and the people that jive with that. Those are my clients, and it's so much more enjoyable for both people to experience that. And when it isn't a good fit, like you said, like oh good, like I'm glad they're finding and they're advocating for themselves. It's always more, I think, as maybe and I don't want to speak for you, but at least for me it's very refreshing when someone says this isn't a good fit, because then you don't always feel that disconnect and you're always trying to make up for it. I feel like in sessions. So, yeah, I've had the same experience, where I love that people are open and honest about that and we should be, we should be able to be that way with our, with those that we are hiring to help us in our lives, our world. 

Emma (Guest)

I mean we are intimate. You know we're getting really intimate detail where they're in our clients' lives in ways that you know your general practitioner is not right Like I have a fever five days. Need some help, right? And then you know, doing a chest x-ray, see if you have pneumonia, like I mean, yes, in some ways that's invasive, but they're not wondering about what's happened at home this week and how your kids are and you know, you're not crying because of something someone said to you, right, that it was mean. 

And yeah, in order to really share those personal details, you really have the connections key. And if it's not there, um, yeah, back to the research shows, right, it's just not going to work. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, very well and I find that when I'm talking with potential clients, I always say something like you know, some people are vanilla, some people are chocolate, some people are raspberry sherbet, which is okay, that is not me, but I'm so glad there's some people that do like that. There's a therapist for everyone, there's a client for everyone, and just making sure that I think everybody finds what that flavor of personality is for them, I think is so important. So, I love that. You really mentioned that. So, I'm trying to think, was there anything else that you wanted to share, anything that we missed? 

Emma (Guest)

No, I don't think so. 

I just I hope people are getting the idea that you know this is accessible where you know it is not. Scary is the wrong word, but it takes courage. It really takes courage to show up at a therapist's office and say, hey, I know I need to talk, and you know that, Lara, you know you've been in therapy. I have my own therapist, and I remember that first walking through the door the first time, I was like, oh, is this? My clients, my clients feel like this is you know, really just saying like this takes courage. It is work, but with the right person it's so rewarding. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah, it's work that gives so much back to you. I have found I've always said getting a therapist was the most courageous thing I've ever done. And I've done some. I feel like I've done some pretty courageous things, but that was the very first time I personally had put myself in a position of vulnerability, the first time I even heard the word vulnerability. And I even remember talking to my husband like I googled some therapists, and I talked to my husband, and he was genuinely confused on why I need a therapist, because I masked it and hit it so well. So, for me, like no one else would have seen it, it had to come from me. So, I had to dig deep and find that courage to take those first steps. And there it's hard to take the first steps but gosh, like you said, it's so rewarding. 

Emma (Guest)

Yeah, super hard, but super healthy. 

Lara (Host)

Yes, yeah, well, where can people find out more about you? For our locals and people online? They can follow you on social media. 

Emma (Guest)

Yes, so head to our website so it's lifematterpsyche.com, and from there you can link to our socials. If you're local and interested in an appointment on that website, you can actually schedule online. So, you know, get on there and there should be a book now. But then you can press that, and it should pull up the therapists. Yeah, so head to the website would probably be the place where it's mostly all located, and yeah, yeah, I love it, and I love that you can book online now. 

Lara (Host)

Calling and scheduling something was even harder. 

Emma (Guest)

So, and I would say, you know locals, not to be just, you know Davis County, Farmington, but now that we can do telehealth, you know, as long as you're in Utah and your therapist is licensed in Utah, you can be in Logan or down in St George. Yeah, we can still connect. 

Lara (Host)

And I what I've been very impressed with all the therapists in the office. I've loved everyone that I've met. It is a very inclusive group. So I talk a lot about on the podcast about neurodivergencies in our family and I find that you all are very well equipped to handle those and that is very rare, I feel like, where sometimes if you have neurodivergent experiences or a brain like that, it can sometimes be harder to find a therapist that knows how to work with that. So that's something else. Anybody that is in Utah. I do feel like you guys are very inclusive in that area as well. 

Emma (Guest)

Thank you. 

Lara (Host)

Yeah Well, thank you very much. We loved having you and I will see you soon.

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