The one with the CX bridge - Sean Cherry Experience Insights at LinkedIn E201

🎤🎞️Create results and bring the worlds together in “The one with the CX bridge” with Sean Cherry Experience Insights at LinkedIn in CX Passport Episode 201🎧 What’s in the episode?...

CHAPTERS

0:00 Introduction to Sean Cherry and CX Expertise

2:02 Leveraging Customer Feedback for Revenue Growth

5:10 The Value of Actionable Customer Insights

8:19 Tying Customer Metrics to Business Outcomes

11:10 Building Relationships to Drive CX Success

16:53 Bridging Product and Service Teams for Better CX

21:06 First-Class Lounge Travel Stories with Sean Cherry

26:26 Getting Real with AI: Challenges and Opportunities

31:59 How to Connect with Sean Cherry

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I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport

Episode resources:

Sean LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-t-cherry/

Transcript

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Sean Cherry: 0:00

The short answer is, your relationships are your currency. You can't really go alone. Otherwise, there's not really a great deal of incentive to listen to you,

Rick Denton: 0:09

customer experience wisdom, a dash of travel talk. We've been cleared for takeoff. The best meals are served outside and require passport. Hey, CX, passport travelers. Welcome back to this week's episode of CX passport. Joining us this week is Sean cherry, manager of member and customer experience insights at LinkedIn. Sean brings nearly 15 years in CX analytics and strategy with experience turning data into insights for customer focused solutions across brands like Comcast, wells, Fargo and well now LinkedIn, data, insights, solutions. That's the kind of customer journey I like to see at LinkedIn. Sean leads initiatives to connect customer insights with CX, UX and product operations driving improvements in satisfaction and product engagement. He's known for using data to tell compelling stories that influence senior leadership decisions and foster customer centric approaches. Stories I'm eager to hear some of those compelling stories today. Sean, welcome to CX passport. Hey. Good morning,

Sean Cherry: 1:18

Rick, thanks for having me. Yeah, an introduction. It's really nice. Yeah,

Rick Denton: 1:21

well, I It's easy when you got a guess it's got a story, like a story, I didn't even mean to say that, but you know, a story like yours, and I'm glad to have you on the show. To Sean is joining us today from South Philly. Is that right? South Philly? Yes, South Philly, that's right. I'm in Texas. We will not talk football today. Fear not, because I don't want to get into a fight with a guest, how awkward that would be. So Sean, customer feedback, customer insights, customer voice, you and I know this is vital. Companies are often under utilizing this. You got go to market in your job title. How should companies use these insights, these customer inputs, as they are looking to go to market, aka, grow revenue.

Sean Cherry: 2:03

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think there's a number of ways that they can, that they can use this more effectively than they are today. So one thing that I've kind of noticed throughout my career is just sort of the, I don't know, I guess, like the sunk cost of asking your customers for feedback and then just under utilizing it. I think a lot of that, like, in my opinion, comes from just sort of this legacy place of where feedback collection and surveys were more so a tool for performance measurement and a QA, and less about customer experience and voc and making continuous process improvements, and, you know, and even if that's not the case, you still might have these scenarios where there's a couple dashboards living out there that, you know, they've existed for 10 or 15 years, and some executive is, like, really fond of it, and for lack of better word, they're sort of just watching the score. You know, I've, I've worked at companies where, you know, we've had, you know, televisions in the office showing the the the Net Promoter Score, right from our loyalty tracking survey, that goes out randomly to, you know, a percentage of the customer base, you know, at random, but executed by a research vendor, and then we take, like, a rolling average of that number and, and hey, like, don't get me wrong, it's great to see that measure of loyalty go up over time, and I think it motivates the employees at HQ, but, but I can Also recall times where that number dropped, and instead of really understanding, like, what makes up that number can, like, continuously as part of your your job as you know, a CX practitioner, voc leader, insights manager, whatever it is that you do at the company, it was it felt that at times, it felt very reactive like, Oh no, our NPS went down. And then you have to remember, you know, oh, we use, like, a rolling eight week average, so we need to figure out, like, when it dropped, why it dropped, what cohort of customers, what product like. And so you're, you're, you're already just like, so behind the issue. And so that's, I guess that's one thing that I would say is, you know, like in terms of how people can really use the feedback more effectively, I guess if I had to break it down into some bullet points, it would be to actually use the surveys that you have, you know, your customers feedback is, is a gift. You'll, you'll learn a lot if you take the time to just read, even if you just read a couple a day, it would be better, obviously, if the if the entire company had, like, you know, systematized processes where everyone was empowered and engaged in getting that feedback, but even just reading a few a day, I think that are specific to kind of like, the part of the business you work on is huge. I. Um, most places I've worked have not had a standardized practice of taking action and following up on the feedback they received.

Rick Denton: 5:10

Yeah, and so you are starting to get into my sweet spot. There's a there's a lot in there that you were talking about, one thing that we may come back to, actually, no, I'm gonna ask you this now. You, you mentioned something about the scoreboard in in, in the room, whatever that might look like contact center, or whether it's some other role, that sort of stuff. And I have been a part of places that did that. You see it a lot in Contact Center window, yeah, operational metrics, for sure, sure. Yeah. You said something that's interesting. And you said it can be motivating for the employee. And I've been sort of on a mantra of, you know, stop serving and scores, and that aspect of it, is there something that perhaps I'm I'm guilty of, and others have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Of saying the scores are not what's important. Are we ignoring that motivational part? Or, in fact, is that motivational part a more high risk thing that we shouldn't be going down that path using scores to do so I

Sean Cherry: 6:09

that's a really good question. I tend to Yeah, generally be in your camp where it's less about the score and more about like, what's what's really going on underneath the score, like, what makes that number what it is? I think the main reason it was motivating, well, there are a couple of reasons. One company in particular that I worked for where it was especially motivating was the first factor was we were coming from a place where the score was extraordinarily low, and so seeing that growth over time, I think was energizing for folks. The other, the other piece, you know, candidly, was this, this particular company did a really nice job of tying, tying financial compensation to to their performance with regards to customer experience and loyalty metrics, okay, and so I think that gave everyone, even if you're not in the contact center, like, in my case, I was at the company's headquarters in a non customer facing role, and so that that to me, you know, that's a way of getting your your senior leaders and your product managers and your analysts, all these folks that think to themselves Like, well, I don't talk to customers, and I don't, you know, I'm not, I'm not responsible, quote, unquote, for, for the customer experience. I think that sort of brought to them a lens of like, hey, actually, your work does ladder up and contribute to the overall customer experience. And, you know, here's how, and here's why, and and I guess most importantly, like here's here's why you should care. You know your your bonus at the end of the year will be, will be better if we, if we can reduce our churn and keep these customers happier.

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Rick Denton: 8:19

It will, you know, and it's I like that you said, reduce our churn, because there's a danger in using incentives. And I'm going to use folks have heard me say this before, capital I incentives, which means hard dollars, and tie it to a CSAT score or an NPS score or something like that, because it is so relatively easy to game. We saw it at one of my former employers. We saw individuals gaming the system by wiping out email addresses so a survey wouldn't be sent after a bad call, those sorts of things. And so there's a risk of that. But you didn't say score. You said to customer churn, which is the actual financial and business result that is being sought, and that tying incentives to business results via customer experience sounds like a valuable way to attack that, that tension between incentives and gaming and motivating people to deliver a great experience,

Sean Cherry: 9:15

I would agree. I think it removes, you know, some of the buys and risk for gaming. Yeah, like coming prior to CX, I was in a lot of roles that were more heavy into analytics and business reporting, business intelligence, things like that. And you know, I can recall working on on a sales program, and just seeing sales numbers that were extraordinary, and thinking to myself, like, how is this person doing? How are they doing this? And getting in and understanding, coming to understand that this person found some sort of, you know, loophole in the CRM where, you know, even if they don't get the sale today, if the customer takes some action within, you know, X number of weeks, you know, there's a. Loophole where that sale will be attributed to, you know, their their ID in the system. And so, I mean, yeah, like, people are extraordinarily clever, and like gaming, gaming can and will take place. And so, yeah, I'm a big believer that it's important to kind of find ways to mitigate that. And I think, I think, like looking at churn and retention was a, I guess, a less biased way to achieve that.

Rick Denton: 10:28

People are extraordinarily clever. Now I don't want to make that the title, because it's not what we're going to only talk about, but I love the idea of people. What a great turn of phrase that you've got there. Let's go back to you were talking about the insights, and you were talking about how not there's a lot of companies don't do a great job of then turning that into action, something that creates an experience. You've used this term with me before, create an experience that sucks less so if a company wanted actually that you say that you've seen that it doesn't work well in the in some What is an example of where you've seen it work really well. What did that look

Sean Cherry: 11:02

like in terms of bringing the insights to action, going straight,

Rick Denton: 11:07

getting to action, where it's a tangible result at the end?

Sean Cherry: 11:10

Yeah, well, I would say the first, the first step, and most important piece of that is just like having really great relationships with the different stakeholders that are kind of party to what you're doing. So in my experience recently, like what that typically looks like is, you know, the product team, the people that are actually customer facing. So whether that's, you know, whether that's the support team in a contact center. I used to work for a large cable company, and so that could mean, like a retail store, or technicians that go into people's homes, but but the short answer is, like your relationships are kind of your currency. You you can't really go alone, and you also need to, kind of, like, build some sort of equity by bringing these people insights that are going to help them. Otherwise, there's not really a great deal of incentive to listen to you. I think the last thing that people want is the feeling that CX is here to be a QA person to tell them how to do their job more effectively. And so like in my experience working in in CX, I've had to kind of break down that wall and say, like, you know, if we're, if I'm finding something that can be can be done better or improved for the customer experience, I'm not coming to you through the lens of like, QA and telling you that you know you're, you're doing a bad job. You don't need another boss to, like, tell you what to do, right? So I think like to get from a place to of insights to action. The first thing that is paramount is just kind of setting up that framework of like, how we're going to work together, and forming your at your alliances, basically, and earning your seat in their their organizations, meetings where maybe you would otherwise not be present. As far as getting from insights to action, the way I've kind of gone about that is just framing the finding in a way that is meaningful to them. So by tethering myself like with these teams, and trying to embed myself as much as possible. Like, you know, if you think about like a journalist that's embedded with, you know, a team of firefighters or something, or or right out in California. Like, I don't know, this is a bad example, maybe, but like, I sort of see myself as kind of that, that ride along with them. And so by doing that, I try to understand, like, what metrics and KPIs are important to them, and then discerning how the what the customers are telling us, what the customers are telling us through their, you know, their quantitative feedback, but also, like their their verbatim responses, just kind of craft a narrative and say, like, Okay, this is how this correlates to your KPI, and whatever it is that they're focusing on, maybe they're in a position where I feel like the trend over the last several years has really been cost reduction, so a popular one has understatement

Rick Denton: 14:18

of the year, right? Sean, yeah, yeah. I like how calmly you said that. I think it's a trend, yeah, no, it's significant, right? It's

Sean Cherry: 14:27

very significant. I would say since, you know, basically since COVID, the all of the kind of organizations I've worked with since that time, it's like, yes, delivering, delivering a best in class experience is still very, very important, but even more so I would, I would argue, is doing it efficiently or doing more with less? Kind of padding, your padding, your costs for kind of that rainy day. Because I I don't know if it's exclusively COVID, but maybe COVID and the macro economic headwinds that followed. But regardless, I feel like every. Since then, everyone has a little bit more of, like, a penchant to to pad for a rainy day. And that's and, you know, that's fine. I think it does make our life a little bit harder. As as, like a CX practitioner, you want to deliver the best experience, but now you kind of have to have a lens of, how can I deliver the best experience within the constraints that are, are budgetary?

Rick Denton: 15:22

Yeah, reasonable. And I think, and inspired by that, I think it's something that actually, CX teams have been called to, you know, called the table on over the last couple years. Some of the cost cutting is the CX teams that didn't pay attention to this, those that have recognized that a great experience can be both one that increases revenue going back to that go to market thing that's in your role, and how do we grow that market? It can also be. How can we create a great experience that reduces cost? Those are not inherently in opposition to each other. They can be. It can be very easy to cut costs that degrades experience. But a wise team, a wise group that's working together with their operations, with their insights, with their product teams, can find that way to create an experience that does both, and it's a great experience, and it reduces cost. I want to, I want to talk about it. Kind of you inspired me with something when you mentioned the we've talked about product teams. There's this other team of, you know, service teams, right? We've talked about somebody creates a great product, and then somebody has to deal with the customers that are interacting with that product, either a problem or a question or a educational aspect of it. In a large company, those teams, I've seen it get out of sync very quickly. Product team does something. Service team has no idea what the customer doesn't care. They just see brand. They just want the brand, the company, to give them the experience they want. How have you and the work that you've done bring those teams together, product and service? Yeah,

Sean Cherry: 16:53

that's a great question. I think, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have kind of a varied experience. You know, I've worked in a contact center, I've worked in BI and reporting, and I've worked closely, very closely, with product operations teams, like all along the way of kind of being in CX roles as well. And so I think, like, the biggest thing it really is, is your network. And when I, when I changed jobs, actually leaving the cable company that I used to work for, and coming to LinkedIn, that was one of the, the most shocking things was just kind of like realizing to myself, hmm, like, you need to rebuild. You need to rebuild your entire Rolodex. Like, this is a completely, you know, new company and and you work remotely, and so how are you going to, like, establish relationships with all of these teams? I've always kind of seen myself as a bridge. Like in a lot of the roles I've held, I've been kind of the connector or the conduit between highly technical teams and less technical teams. So like explaining to the business what's possible based on engineering constraints and vice versa, like decoding business needs to the end teams to understand what our senior leaders need. And so I think those skills and kind of translation and building connections will serve you well if this is something that you need to do. So how I've done that, or how I've approached that? Well, I think with with product and service, telling like, real customer stories to a non face, a non customer facing team, because I think it's so easy to get lost in, you know, your your spreadsheets and dashboards, and when you're looking at like product usage trends or product feature ramps or things that are all like extraordinarily important, but when you're going through these line items, and you're, you know, as a product manager, maybe you're trying to get engineering to commit to something. But on a lot of those, you know, pieces of slide where reports the product ramp you're talking about, it might have a line item and say, you know, this affects 10,500 customers, you know, per week. And when I think, when you're looking at it at that macro level, you forget what the experience of just one of those customers can feel like, and so like, we have some programs at my current company where where we basically go into a specific customer journey. And, you know, we'll, we'll maybe summarize their their experience with service and share if they, if they did, complete a post service survey, we'll kind of summarize that and walk the relevant product teams through it. In some cases, I think it actually goes up to some of our executive team members as well. And the goal is to basically be this empathy building session. And I think remind people of like, hey, look how much friction these types of mishaps. Have for someone using our products or services, take that experience back to your product meeting and extrapolate it or multiply it by how many people you know have that same experience or friction point. And I think that kind of like lights a little bit of a fire under, under. So I think conveying these stories back to the product org is the way for them to sort of get energized around like what they can do to help the end customer.

Rick Denton: 20:33

Sean, you've talked a lot about relationships, and I hear that woven throughout that right even there, as you're talking about with the product and service, starting with relationships, and then getting that connectivity back there. It can be it can be challenging to build those relationships, it can be exhausting to build those relationships. And sometimes you just want to stop down and take a little break. And so I'm going to do that with you today. We're going to take a little break here as we enter the first class lounge. We'll move quickly here and have a little bit of fun. What of fun. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Sean Cherry: 21:06

Dream travel location from my past? Ooh, you know, I would love to return to Montreal, Quebec. Big hockey fan. Love the winter time. Lots of cool stuff to see, and it's a beautiful town. The last time I went, I got to see my Philadelphia Flyers play the Montreal Canadiens. Nice. A lot of fun. Yeah, it's just a lot. It's a great city with a lot of lot of fun stuff to do and to see, and the food is fantastic too. So yeah, I've

Rick Denton: 21:37

definitely heard that I didn't spend much time in Montreal this a long time ago, when I was in Canada, maybe early aughts, late 90s, even, like that kind of but we went to Quebec City. And I, of course, you know, you go to the Old Town, Quebec City, it's the old kind of European style. But that part of Canada is really, it's this really, it truly is. It's a taste of Europe in your Western Hemisphere, and it's a lot of fun. I can see why you'd want to go back there. What about going forward? What is a dream travel location you've not been to yet.

Unknown: 22:02

Yeah, so dream location that I have not been to yet. I think I would lean this is tough, but I think I am leaning towards Spain, yeah, similar reasons. Love, well, not the hockey in winter, not a lot of hockey there, but, but as far as, far as the food scene, the culture, I've heard fantastic things. I've also heard the beaches are great, and my wife and I are, you know, we love, we love a good glass of wine. So, yeah, there's a lot of reasons, and for foodies, a lot of good reasons to pull us out there love it. Well, let's stay in that food space. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat? Wow, it'd probably be easier to list things that I yeah, not, but we'll get there. Yeah, I think lately, you know, we went to a French restaurant, like, like, a week ago, and I've been thinking about it ever since. So that probably wouldn't have always been my answer, but right now, I'm on a little bit of a kick. I like that. Well, you got

Rick Denton: 23:04

the French influence, and in Montreal and beyond, you went to that restaurants. That makes sense. Okay, that's right. You said this would be easier. Let's see what is something growing up you were forced to eat, but you hate it as a kid.

Sean Cherry: 23:16

Hate it as a kid, vegetables and now I can't get enough. Yeah. I mean anything green as a child and as a new dad, I'm kind of going through it now. I thought my kid was, I thought he was a really good eater, and turns out he just kind of didn't have any preferences yet. And now that he's, you know, now that he's, like, had melted cheese and, like, a cookie and stuff, like, good luck trying to get him to eat broccoli, like, kind of, ah,

Rick Denton: 23:42

but pour that melted cheese all over that broccoli, and somehow you can get that snuck in. Yes, yeah, that's so funny. Just learning

Sean Cherry: 23:49

his preferences, and it's making, uh, making things a lot more challenging. So we could do a whole episode

Rick Denton: 23:55

not related to CX, about how, as kids discover their preferences, it makes life a lot more challenging. But we're not gonna go there, because that would totally derail the episode. We're gonna have to leave the lounge. What is one travel item not including your phone, not including your passport, that you will not leave home without,

Sean Cherry: 24:11

not leave without my phone or my passport? Wow, wow, wow, wow. You know probably, probably my AirPods love, love to listen to music. I know there's this trend going on social media where, where folks try to do, do their flights with no no phone, no music, no book, no nothing, what? Yes. Look it up. It's like a point of pride. If you can, if you can just sit through a flight and do and do nothing but stare at the back of the seat in front of you. Hey, more power to them. That sounds like some really cool mindfulness or presence, or whatever you want to self discipline, whatever you want to call it, but it's not for me. I need I need my I need my earbuds, and I need my my music to relax and get through the travel i.

Rick Denton: 25:07

John. I'm very disturbed by this trend, and this is a dated reference. It'll show my age. But for those that are Seinfeld fans, they will recall that there was a flight that Elaine and putty took back from Europe to the US, and they got into another one of their fights because he was doing exactly that, just staring at the back of the seat without a book, without headphones, without anything. And it drove her mad. And so I have I'm very disturbed by this, this next social media challenge. And so all I'd ask is, if I'm sitting next to someone like that on the plane that Don't you dare break that challenge by talking to me, because when I'm on the plane, your lack of preparation is not a reason to bug my my saying sanctity, my solitude, that's the word, yeah, yeah. Oh man, what? I'm glad you told me that so I can watch out for that. Let's I do feel like there's a topic that the podcaster union would well, actually, maybe I get a SAG card out of this. Sometime, anybody out there that knows can podcast or get a SAG card, but the podcasters union would still get on to me if I didn't bring up AI. Now, all joking aside, right? We're past that initial hype. A lot of companies are now feeling like that. AI actually has come up pretty short as a solution for them. Why is that? How can companies actually do better with AI now that the hype is over?

Sean Cherry: 26:26

Yeah, great, great question. So, I mean, I actually, right before I spoke with you today, I saw an ad, a YouTube ad, and I don't even know that the gentleman's name that was in it, but he, he said something about, you know, kind of not expecting AI to be this kind of, like grandiose salute, like one stop solution for all of your, all the world's problems, but instead to kind of think of it as a useful or helpful co worker that kind of rides along with you. And more and more, I'm kind of, I'm in that camp of, like, I'll come right out say, I think, I think AI and the technology is incredible. I think there's a lot of great applications for it. It's super impressive. But it's come up short for me a number of times where, you know, I've been trying to do something, or I just kind of, you know, I like it for the more basic things, like, if I need, like, a template to start a document so I'm not starting from zero, and it saves me a lot of time with kind of these simple, these simple tasks. I think the the number one piece of advice that I that I would use with to, you know, if a company came to me and as a consultant and asked, like, how can we get the most out of AI? I think I would first just say, kind of like, temper your expectations with with realism, understand that, like it's garbage in and garbage out. So yeah, since we're talking about service teams and customer experience, like the number one application that I, that I see or hear about all the time is chat bots. And right, I would say, which, again, is, is obvious, right? Because if everyone is kind of in this this mode of cost cutting, what better way to do it than to take all of your highly repeatable or high volume service interactions and find a way to reduce that volume or shift that volume to a bot for lower cost? Like, it's a no brainer, but that AI bots only going to be as good as as the as, like the Knowledge Center articles that you feed it right, like the large language models that you train it on. And I think the the number one issue that I'm seeing is that the fundamentals, just like, aren't there. So like, what are your data foundations? I give you an example, like, I've worked with a quality team that reviews service cases, and they break down. And, you know, they don't get through all of them, but they do a sampling so that one, they can use it for evaluating the representatives performance, but also so that, you know, as insights leaders, we can, we can try and understand, like, what's what's working well and what's not working well in the service experience. And I was reading through these and I was like, thinking to myself, is there an AI application here where I could save some of these QA folks a little bit of time, and we could review larger sample size, right? The problem is, some of these things are are behavioral or like, if the reps are not using the right tools, for example, and if your systems internally don't talk to each other in the right way, there's no way that AI could ever know that that was the problem. And so now we're opening ourselves up to a possibility where there's like, AI hallucination, or it's inventing a problem that that maybe wasn't really there. So then now you have the challenging choice to make of either not use AI at all, or grant it way too much trust, and now it's feeding you, you know, unintelligible or unintelligent advice about the situation. So I think my advice would basically be just to get your foundations in order and not. Be so over eager to slap AI on top of something, because in a situation like that, what you're doing is, I think, is just getting your hopes up or getting setting your expectations too high, and also simultaneously increasing your tech debt by you know, now you have this even more complicated system where, you know, you've integrated tools that aren't really going to work with that well, for you, maybe,

Rick Denton: 30:23

I think, and, you know, as you're saying that, and I think we're going to close the episode on this, because I think what you said is such a sort of salient theme, and it was when you talk about tech debt, and you talk about the the, you know, the integration the systems. I think a lot of us, when we first started hearing AI. First of all, AI has been around for decades, right? You know, it's just because of when chat GPT came into our collective consciousnesses, then it really sort of took on a new life of its own, almost there's nothing new under the sun. Sort of feel here, right? Yes, it is a an accelerant of a tool. It is a companion, like you said, a colleague, a co worker, and it has all of the same challenges that implementing SAP did a decade ago or two decades ago, or whatever that looked like when we were in that world of it doesn't just plop in and automatically solve your problems. There's the thoughtfulness of how it's going to be used, how you're going to feed it with information, how it's going to integrate into your actual business processes. All of that is what I heard you say there, and that makes a lot of sense to me how we're now, okay, the hype is over. Oh yeah, this didn't quite work like we thought. And yet, there's still a ton of value to extract from this. Sean, this is I like how we were slightly all over the map, which is how I like my journeys to go, actually, right? The unexpected path is actually kind of delightful. If folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about you, your approach to customer experience, your thoughts in that space, hey, making sure that product and service teams stay aligned, or your views towards relationships inside a business. What's the best way for them to get to connect with you and know you better?

Unknown: 31:59

Yeah, I would say, well, shameless plug, right? But I was gonna say, I bet your answer is, I work. I work for LinkedIn. So, you know, no, no bias intended. But yeah, obviously you can always find me on LinkedIn. And, you know, feel free to drop me a line there. Or, yeah, I'm happy to respond to any messages, or if anyone has any questions or business problems that they'd like to maybe unpack or discuss. I'm an open book and always happy to chat and meet new folks. I'll definitely get

Rick Denton: 32:33

that down there in the show notes. And yeah, as I was asking the question, I'm like, Well, I bet you, I know was answered probably is one of those That better be that answer, right? Yeah, so, but of course, that's one of the best places to connect. That's how we came to know each other. Is exactly through a mutual connection there on LinkedIn, and then we have developed our relationship here. Sean, it was a delightful conversation. We did. We went the full episode without having any discussion around football, which is fantastic, not because I dislike it, but because we're gonna avoid that conflict. So Sean, I do appreciate having you on the show today. Thank you for being on CX passport.

Sean Cherry: 33:09

Hey, thank you, Rick. Thanks so much for having me. It was a great time, and yeah, we'll chat soon, hopefully.

Rick Denton: 33:19

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.