[00:00:00] Kate: The most successful person in the room isn't the smartest person. It's the person with the most influence. And how to develop your own influence at work is the topic that I'm diving into with my guest today, consultant, speaker, and soon to be published author Friska Wirya. In her consultancy, Fresh by Friska, she has worked with some of the biggest names in mining, engineering and technology as a change and transformation expert for a decade.
[00:01:36] Her passion for driving change around the world has seen her influence people of all backgrounds and inspire the most conservative organisations to do things differently from the way that they've been done before. As you're about to discover, Oh, this was such a great conversation. Friska and I covered everything from the relationship between visibility and influence, how your personal brand can impact your influence at work and how to develop your executive presence.
[00:02:07] Friska even shares some advice about how to connect with your senior executive sponsor. In fact, she even shared her take on some very hairy questions that I asked, like, You know, if you've only got three minutes with the sponsor, should you be pitching or should you be focusing on building the relationship first?
[00:02:27] What would you say to that? Listen to this episode. Towards the end, Friska is gonna share what she recommends, and it is. Gold. That noise was me doing a, chef's kiss but it's gold. This episode is full of useful aha moments and practical tips that you're gonna be able to start putting into action immediately today.
[00:02:47] So I'm not gonna keep it from you any longer. Let's dive in.
[00:02:51] Friska. Hi. I am thrilled that we're chatting today. I've got so many questions for you.
[00:02:58] Friska: Okay. Ominous. I'm ready.
[00:03:01] Kate: No, no, no. In the best possible way. In the best possible way. to begin with, I know that you have been in the change management space for. Quite a while now, and so I bet you have seen all kinds of things and all kinds of human behaviour. I would love to know, this is such a left field way to start, but what is the craziest response to change that you have seen, maybe, you know, like the biggest emotion or the craziest thing in your career?
[00:03:30] Is there something that has stood out for you?
[00:03:32] Friska: Oh my God. So yes, I've been in change for a decade and during that time I've worked in. You know, mining, utilities, public safety, lots of different industries. It's always the seemingly small changes that cause people to go into a complete rage or a t. It was about car parking, believe it or not. So one of the many changes in this program was moving from car parks to individual carpooling and moving a particular government department.
[00:04:05] From a really old C B D building to a brand new shiny building about 40 minutes away from the C B D. And so a lot of people were going to be losing car parking. I've had people probably this far from my face, yelling full pelt that they were gonna lose their car parking. It was like I'd taken their firstborn
[00:04:26] Kate: my God.
[00:04:27] I have to say, I have had similar experiences about car parking I think that somehow car parking for many organisations represents there's kind of a privileged position, you know, where you are in the chain of things and people get very attached to their car parks. So how did you respond to that?
[00:04:50] Friska: At the time, honestly, I was like a deer in the headlights. And it took me like a few seconds to kind of stop, not get emotional, the whole point is to take the sting out of it. Like it's nothing personal. It's not about your performance. It's not about, we don't value your position anymore, but it's simply a matter of space.
[00:05:08] And the whole point of moving to this new building is to benefit everybody. You know? It's gonna be so much more spacious. You're gonna have cutting edge technology. It's really for the benefit of the entire department, not just you. So I emphasize the collective benefits rather than focusing on the individual.
[00:05:26] Kate: Very smart, very smart approach. Yeah. I think it's always fascinating to ask that question, you know, what's the craziest response that you've experienced? Because big emotions come up when change is happening. And quite often there is some poor change manager who may be extremely qualified and very good at what they do, very strategic who can often find themselves on the front line.
[00:05:51] Of these really full on responses yeah, it can be very confronting.
[00:05:58] Friska: totally. Yeah. And, and never mind car parking. I'm sure you've been involved in many initiatives that are focused on cost cutting, et cetera. The number of conversations I've overheard and people stopping work because they took biscuits away, you know, as a cost cutting initiative. Like I can't even begin to count.
[00:06:17] It's definitely more than my true hands, you know, like that little. Seemingly small change, it hits people because it makes them think, what? You don't value me enough? Like, don't you want me to be comfortable? You know, I'm here eight hours a day working hard for you, blah, blah, blah. and it was minuscule, like a $60,000 saving, cutting away biscuits, morning teas, et cetera.
[00:06:39] The lost productivity from people stopping work and having a banter about it was probably in the millions.
[00:06:44] Kate: Yes, yes. I have seen that kind of thing. Yeah. That's interesting that you raised it. I've never thought about that before, but you're right. Changes to communal spaces, office kitchens, that type of thing. In terms of the supplies, I have seen significant responses to that. I've also seen really, really, Big responses to moving from having a dedicated desk to a more hot desking kind of arrangement.
[00:07:10] What am I gonna do with my family photos? This is a picture of my child graduating. Where am I gonna put that? And you know, the impact of that. And you hit the nail on the head in terms of, don't you value me? You know, like you're taking away my biscuits, my car park, my space to put my personal belongings.
[00:07:30] Yeah, it kind of really hits on the heart for people about the organisation, the sense of being valued by that organisation. it's interesting, isn't it? Those little things when we are putting together strategies of this very significant change often can be really the sticking points.
[00:07:47] Friska: Mm.
[00:07:47] Kate: Well, look, this is quite a good segue because. I want to talk to you about influence. something I have come across when I talk to change managers who are early career, mid-career, and even senior change leaders. Something I hear that comes up quite often is people saying things like, You know, they can't get in the room.
[00:08:07] They wish they could connect with a leader or you know, someone that they would like to influence or they're trying to connect with stakeholders, but the stakeholders aren't really paying attention to them. And to me that has to do with influence. And I'd love to know Is influence in your work with change management? Is that a kind of central part of it? What's your take on influence in change management?
[00:08:35] Friska: You can't influence someone if you are having trouble connecting with them. influence is very interesting because, you know, I'm a big believer in Dr. Robert Cialdini's work and he talks about, you know, the similarity effect. He talks about reciprocity, et cetera. And I think what most people don't realise is that influence is not built overnight.
[00:08:55] So I remember one of the most challenging projects I was on, I really had to get this stakeholder on board. She was, an admin person that had been there three decades or something, and everything went through her. She had informal influence, right? She didn't have the seniority, you know, she wasn't a CEO she wasn't a gm, but everything had to go through her.
[00:09:15] Kate: she was the head of the mafia.
[00:09:17] Friska: Oh yeah, yeah. She was the gatekeeper. And she was notoriously difficult and I had to influence her to come on board. and you know, she would always have, pardon my French resting bitch face and, you know, always going in the office. No smile, no hello, no nothing. And I was like, God damn, I need to like, get this person on board.
[00:09:36] And so I started small. I just started with a simple smile. Every morning to her. Good morning, Sue. How are you? Good morning. Good morning. Guess what? I got nothing back for probably three solid weeks, but did I give up? No. And then I started seeing minor changes, she wouldn't smile back, but she'd be like, raise an eyebrow.
[00:09:56] The raised eyebrow turned into a little grin. A little grin turned into a smile, and two months later, two solid months of me saying hello to her. We finally started having coffee together. Like that sort of influence you need to build and you know, people don't trust you or like you instantly. Some do for sure, but if they're already resistant, you're not gonna get that.
[00:10:18] And I think where most people fall over is that they give up too early. Right. Just because I have a conversation today with a really resistant stakeholder, doesn't mean they're gonna be singing the praises of the change tomorrow. You know, that sort of commitment and acceptance takes time. You need to move them through that commitment curve.
[00:10:34] You do that by building up your influence and your likability with them.
[00:10:38] Kate: Yes. I love that reminder that it takes time. There are lot of reasons why people are in a hurry. It may be they're feeling the change manager's feeling pressure from the project to deliver results or whatever it may be, but, Human relationships and connection. I love that word that you use connection.
[00:10:57] takes time. And it sounds like you really persevered, you know, you were patient and focused on the little baby steps Tell me more about, Influence. And so connection is part of it. I wonder about the relationship with I guess I'm gonna say like our personal brand at Work and Influence.
[00:11:22] Is there a relationship between those things?
[00:11:24] Friska: I mean, definitely I think the stronger your personal brand, the greater your influence. So I don't know how long you've had your business, Kate, but I haven't had mine very long, and I started at the worst time ever. Two months before the pandemic hit in November 2019, I decided I wanted to forge a different path.
[00:11:43] I wanted more control over where, when, and how much I worked. Even though before this, you already know I work a lot and I thought, oh, I've always had such great feedback from peers, colleagues, and managers, I wanna consult independently and no one knew me. Outside of the mining industry, no one knew me and I realised the only thing standing in the way between where I was and where I wanted to be, which was partnering with you know, big name clients on exciting projects, making a difference, making an impact speaking, you know, workshops, et cetera, all around the world.
[00:12:19] Invisibility was what was blocking me. And visibility creates credibility, and credibility creates influence. And so I started being very intentional with my personal brand and what I put out there in the world. Obviously, I chose LinkedIn as my platform 'cause I'm B two B and I started posting 60-second videos on change management when no one was doing it. And that's really what grew my following from like 4,000 to 20-something thousand to what it is today. And it's all about consistency and discipline and commitment. Just like change. If you wanna push through that resistance to adoption, it's a consistency and irregularity thing.
[00:12:57] Long story short, Six weeks later got my first client 'cause they found me, found my videos on LinkedIn. And that was the University of Melbourne. And I haven't looked back. And since then, you know, I've had speaking gigs at Salesforce, at Google, and at Microsoft. I've spoken at Women Leaders Institute Summits in Singapore, Melbourne, and Sydney.
[00:13:16] And all that happened because I started putting myself out there. It is scary because you are gonna be judged, but if you don't, you're gonna be judged anyway. So you may as well take control of how the world perceives you.
[00:13:27] Kate: Yes. That's wonderful advice. Thank you. If you are a change manager or a change leader listening to this, I hope that inspires you to think about your visibility in the industry, and in the market across your network. I reckon there's gonna be heaps of parallels in terms of building your visibility.
[00:13:46] with your business and your expertise as there are for people who may be in an organisation or working on a particular change project and kind of building their visibility with key stakeholders as well. LinkedIn may or may not be the appropriate platform for that, but I'm sure that there are many transferable lessons there and the strategy largely is transferable.
[00:14:12] I love what you said about visibility is credibility is influence.
[00:14:18] Friska: And Kate, like you've hit the nail bang on the head. How I approached changing how others perceived me was exactly the same tools, strategies, and techniques that I used in a change management program in an organisation. like, let's start at the basics, right? Adca, awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, reinforcement.
[00:14:36] I literally applied those principles to my personal brand. The first step was awareness, which is posting on LinkedIn. How do I get people to wanna engage with me, to wanna support me? What's gonna get them to desire to hire me As a consultant, I really took the time to flesh out. You know, change management one-on-one, stakeholder analysis.
[00:14:55] Who's who in the zoo? What are their fears? What are their motivations, what are their desires? And I literally stepped out that entire process and applied it to my personal brand.
[00:15:03] Kate: Killing it guys. That is such good advice. don't cheap out You know, in terms of trying to engage with your stakeholders or have influence with your stakeholders to quickly really consider it to be strategic in your approach. I would love to get your take I'm gonna ask you for some of the tips and some of the tricks that you use in your practice when you are supporting organisations through change.
[00:15:30] In terms of getting access and visibility to senior executives. I think a key part of it is your own personal executive presence. I think we're probably aligned in our thinking on that. You may call it something different, but I would love to know, do you have tips for people in terms of how they may be able to elevate their executive presence to create that credibility, that influence?
[00:15:58] Friska: There's a few things There's two parts, should I say. There's, there's looking the part and then there's speaking the part, I've invested a lot of time and a lot of money to level up my communication and my presenting skills. So if that's something you are in a deficit of, I'd say get yourself some training.
[00:16:17] And there's nothing like practice, practice, practice. My TED Talk was one of the highest rated in the technology talks and it's on ted.com. And people always say the same thing. It looks so natural, it looks so organic, like, you know, you're just born with it.
[00:16:30] Kate: Oh my God. Friska. I was just gonna say the same thing. I the way you move your hands. Sorry to cut you off. We will link to it in the show notes, so it's really easy for people to see. It's a wonderful Ted talk. but the way you present it is perfection. You convey ideas, very big, ideas very clearly.
[00:16:50] Just using some hand gestures, your facial expression. it is a masterclass. Guys, I'll link to it in the show notes, so you can check it out. Please. I'm sorry to cut you off.
[00:16:59] Please
[00:16:59] Friska: no, no. no. Thank you, Kate. And I wanted to tell people that happened with effort. I didn't wake up and just go, Hey, here's a TED Talk. I literally practised two hours a day. For six weeks straight. Literally, I would, I would record myself. I'd listen to it as I went. On my morning walks, when I'm buying groceries, when I'm on the train, people probably thought I was crazy talking to myself.
[00:17:24] Practiced in front of a mirror, and that's why it's perfect, right? if you are not confident when you're about to speak, I'm sorry, it's because you haven't done the hard yards. If you've put in the effort, you're not gonna be scared. You're not gonna be nervous because you know you are solid.
[00:17:40] Kate: Preparation. Yes.
[00:17:42] Friska: a lot of people do not put in the work.
[00:17:46] Kate: so that's one part. I love that using your voice and being able to speak as an executive in a professional kind of way with conviction, the energy that you bring to it. And you also mentioned, tell me more about the first thing you mentioned, looking the part.
[00:18:00] Friska: The looking of the part. It doesn't take a lot of money, a lot of time, or a lot of effort to look pulled together to have a cohesive look. And at the end of the day, humans are visual creatures and first impressions are made in less than four seconds now. So you need to take the time to think about what impression you wanna make.
[00:18:22] Like what colours you wear. clothes, obviously jewellery, and understated makeup for women. So these little things all kind of form your whole image, and it does matter. So take the time to cultivate, to have a think about what, what are your values, what do you want people to kind of walk away with when they first encounter you?
[00:18:43] And then you can intentionally cultivate those values.
[00:18:45] Kate: Ooh. I like that kind of thinking about coming from a values first perspective in terms of how you present yourself and, what your executive presence means and how you bring
[00:18:59] Friska: Yep. And definitely don't underestimate eye contact. A strong handshake and a friendly smile.
[00:19:05] Kate: Ooh, great tips.
[00:19:06] Friska: And I also wanted to highlight that looking, the part does just. The things that you wear, but it's all your collateral. Everything you produce needs to look the part, you know, from your slide decks, from your, you know, whatever it is that, that you are creating.
[00:19:24] It all needs to be consistent. Like the people that have the strongest brands, it's because their online presence and their offline presence is completely congruent. Right. They don't look great on their website, and then in person, they look like a hobo because that is the same person. And that congruence really evokes a sense of confidence in the people that you interact with.
[00:19:48] Kate: I love that insight that it flows through into your collateral and the material that you're creating. So any kind of communication that you might be producing or briefings that you're intending to deliver, everything is congruent. That is such a wonderful reminder for people. That's not something I think I've consciously thought about before, but that is such a wonderful way to be able to reflect on it, that's a wonderful cue to give people.
[00:20:17] There's something Now I'm gonna get kind of down in the weeds and I'd love to get your take on if I am a change manager who finally kind of gets in front of a key influencer, a senior executive, perhaps the most senior sponsor of the change program or the c e o or whoever it is in my wildest dreams that I thought was out of reach, but I'm finally, I've got a couple of minutes maybe with them, And I'm kind of coming back to something you originally mentioned in terms of it takes time to build that relationship, build trust, build credibility. given that I may not have very much time with this key stakeholder, should I kind of get in and pitch them straight away, or should I take baby steps and hold off from the pitch and kind of try to make a human connection? What do you reckon?
[00:21:08] Friska: I'd say read the room. So if they are, for example, on the way to presenting at a big board meeting, not the right time to ambush them. If they're sim if they're simply waiting for their coffee order and it just looks like they're scrolling the weather on their phone or the news. Sure, definitely. And always come prepared with interesting questions.
[00:21:30] No one likes to be asked. So what keeps you awake at night? what does success look like to you? Oh my God. Like, don't be beige.
[00:21:39] Kate: Yes.
[00:21:40] Friska: Ask a boring question. You're gonna get a boring answer and no one's gonna remember you. So often I'll ask something completely out of left field.
[00:21:49] Kate: Please give us an example.
[00:21:51] Friska: Like, I'll ask something about or I'll, I'll say, Hey, how are you? And he'll, often the question is, you know, I'm great. How are you? And I'll be like, I just came off the crappiest flight ever because, this really happened by the way, yesterday morning, the woman next to me literally was crying all the time.
[00:22:11] She just said that she popped three Valium. She was nervous when she was flying. I became her support person. Like she held my hands so tight and it was a red-eye flight and I barely like got a wink of sleep. And I'll be like, has that ever happened to you? What's been your worst flight experience? and that gets you talking, it lowers the defences, you know, and then it just, it just happens so naturally. So. If you wanna be remembered and be relatable you have to be likable. And, you know, we've all had bad experiences. There's nothing like sharing that with somebody to break the ice.
[00:22:48] And then once you've lowered the fences, then sure. Talk business, talk about, you know, whatever it is that, that you want to talk about.
[00:22:55] Kate: that's wonderful. I love that tip of kind of disclosing, having a story and then kind of connecting on it. That's a wonderful way to do it. A, a great little formula for people to keep in their back pocket. Thank you so much. You've shared. So many golden little tips and suggestions and advice for people that I know.
[00:23:16] Well, I hope that people are inspired to put it into practice today. Give it a go. See how it goes. how can people keep the conversation going and connect with you? You mentioned LinkedIn. Tell me all the places you would like people to connect with you.
[00:23:30] Friska: Sure. So besides LinkedIn, I'm also on Instagram, instagram.com/freshbyfrisca. My website is freshbyfrisca.com and those 60-second change management videos, tips and tricks, they're also on my TikTok, so By the same name and next month my book will be launching, so it's based on my TED Talk. It's called The Future Fit Organisation - A Leader's Guide to Transformation. So I'll let the community know when that's out.
[00:23:58] Kate: Ooh, how exciting. Yes. I can't wait to check that out. Thank you so much for your time today. We will link to everything in the show notes including your TED Talk so people can give themselves the gift of 15 minutes to watch it. I know you'll really enjoy it. Thank you so much for your time today, Friska.This has been so much fun.
[00:24:18] Friska: You are welcome. Thanks for having me, Kate.