The Culture Nerds - A Leadership Podcast
Want to constantly grow as a leader and shape a great culture in your workplace? This is the podcast for you.
Of course, if you’re a yoghurt fan who typed in ‘culture’ and ended up here …(sorry, nerdy workplace culture joke). If you’re a serious person who believes serious topics must be covered in a serious way, we may not be the petri dish for you either.
But, if you want lived executive experience and decades working with corporate clients, government agencies & NFPs, all topped off by the hilarious hosts (at least we think so!), welcome - we're glad you could join us!
We nerd out on leadership and workplace culture – which is why we’re good at them. We tackle the topics you need to develop as a leader and to transform the workplace culture you have into the workplace culture you want. And we have fun doing it.
Hard hitting topics. Easy listening.
The Culture Nerds - A Leadership Podcast
Encouraging Leaders to Charge Into Leadership with R & J Batteries (Rebroadcast)
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Good decisions when replacing managers are critical because their actions flow through to the performance and morale of their team. Having Emerging Leaders ready to step into management roles is essential for every organisation, big or small.
Ready-made successors
A robust Emerging Leaders process fosters ready-made leaders within the organisation. They already know the organisation and sector and they have lived the workplace culture. Presumably they represent your ideal culture. If not, take them of the list of candidates. This means they can focus on the biggest challenges for new managers– developing leadership skills and strategies to deal with the people they lead. If you have created a robust Emerging Leaders process, they will have been developing these skills before they need them, so they are ready when the opportunity comes.
Mistake or choice?
Recruiting leaders from outside the organisation isn’t a bad thing. They can bring fresh perspectives, promote positive change and enhance innovation. It just shouldn’t be your only option because of a lack of emerging leaders within your organisation.If you need to replace a manager and you have no option but to look externally, that’s a mistake. Learn from it. If it happens again, that’s a choice and it suggests you didn’t learn.
Our guests today are from R&J Batteries, Australia’s fastest growing battery company. Each played a pivotal role in implementing an Emerging Leaders program. Two participants took on management positions within less than 12 months & most others showed significant growth.
- Jo Preece, National Training Manager
- Glenn Kennedy, Beresfield Branch Manager
- Dylan Smith, Team Member at Beresfield & participant in the Emerging Leaders program
Links and resources mentioned in the show
Case Study on Emerging Leaders Program
Emerging Leaders Program Product Page
Emerging Leaders Free Resources
Re-Released Podcast Episode
Plenty in 20:
The Culture Nerds Monthly Newsletter:
Authentic Leadership
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Visit our website The Real Learning Experience
Thanks to our producer, Josh at JCALdigital.org
Introduction and Everyday Leadership
Speaker 1Before we get into today's episode , we want to acknowledge the privilege of living and working on Aboriginal land and we pay our respects to the Elders , past , present and emerging .
Speaker 3Our words of authenticity , which is normally one of our features in the first part of the show . I'd actually like to leave until after the interview because some absolute gold that came up in this wonderful interview that you did with a group of people yesterday and I was unable to be there and I think the interview was better for it . But there was a wonderful quote there that I'd like to use as our words of authenticity . But let's leave that till after the interview . Before we go to the interview , kiralee , you were telling me a lovely story earlier about everyday leadership , about noticing very unassuming leadership in the world around you , and look , I'll dob you in . You're a proud mum but you noticed this in one of your kids . But I think they often teach us such amazing lessons about our leadership and about leadership and the people around us . Would you tell the listeners what you told me before ? Sorry if I've thrown you in that .
Speaker 1No , that's okay . So my son is 11 and he has been . He plays in a cricket team and they're playing in the grand final tonight and he has been made captain of his team for the finals , which is huge for him . He can be quite an anxious little thing at times and takes on all the worries of the world and he's really embraced playing at a new club which we've really enjoyed seeing him thrive in an environment that probably 12 to 18 months ago would have been too much for him .
Speaker 1So he was made captain and he came home and we were having a discussion about because he was quite overwhelmed and really humbled by the fact that he'd been made captain and I said well , mate , you are a really good leader . I said you do lots of things . I see you do lots of things . And it was actually the same night he'd played basketball and in his basketball team he has three kids that have never played basketball before and one of them he doesn't really know the rules and he's trying so hard every week and he did this really good intercept and pass the ball off and they got a goal and Braith went over and he just really gave him like the double high fives and really embraced him and was like that was awesome , good job . And I said to him they're these little things that you do that really help people when you're in a team with them and really make them feel like they're part of the team . And when you do things like that , zach wants to go and do that again because he goes . That's really great .
Speaker 1My team really loved when I did that and I said and you do that at cricket as well , like you really lift people up and you do lots of talk and you give lots of praise . He goes . But , mum , that's just what you do when you're part of a team . And he couldn't see what I was highlighting to him , as that's just what everybody does . And I said to him mate , I'm really proud of you that you think like that , but the reality is that that's a choice , that you make a choice to be like that .
Speaker 3And not everyone does do it .
Speaker 1And not everybody does that . I said some people don't have the confidence to do that , Some people just want to concentrate on themselves and their own performance . And I said but you really take the time to invest in others and bring everyone else along with you . And I said , and that's when you've been made captain . They're those little things that you do that you think everyone does . It's actually things that you do that are pretty good . And after I had the conversation with him and he went off and started bouncing his basketball outside or whatever , and I stopped and I thought about it and I thought this is very much about what we do every day with our leaders , and especially our episode today about emerging leaders and developing leaders Nice segue .
Speaker 1It's very much about those I always talk about and I know you do , simon those leadership layers that we put on our everyday behaviours , and it's such a great way to explain to people that we go to work every day to complete a job , that we're put in a role because we have a technical skill to do , that . We make a choice , then , to put leadership layers over everything we do say , think and decide .
Speaker 1And that is very much about what we are talking about today when we talk about emerging leaders and how we embrace emerging leaders in our teams and how we help bring them along for the journey . And it all starts with making that choice of putting those leadership layers over . We can go to work and we can do our job and we can go home , but we could also go to work and we can empower others and we can bring others along for the journey and we can share our knowledge and we can make other people feel good about the things that they do .
Speaker 1And that's where we take that step from management or just take that step from a technical role to being a leader , and we don't have to have a leadership role to do that we can every single person and like the lesson I learned from my 11 year old son , you can be a leader when you're 11 in an under 12s cricket team .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's okay and that's that whole concept that the job of a leader is to develop more leaders , and we do that by nurturing leadership at all levels . It's leadership in people who aren't leaders Help people become leaders before they need to be leaders and then , all of a sudden , it's not that big a step , it's not that big a challenge and in fact , that's one of the things that will come out in the interview today , and I love the , the personal stories . It was . It's a very human interview , the one you've done , because it is about three humans who played different roles and and you won't take any credit , but you played an immense role in the process as well but the three humans who played a role in helping leadership emerge and help the organization prepare for the time that they actually needed formal leaders . So should we cut to the interview ?
Speaker 1I think we should . It's a good one .
Speaker 3See you on the other side .
Leadership Layers in Daily Behaviour
Speaker 1Okay , listeners , welcome to today's episode . It's a little different to our normal structure of our episode today in that we're missing Simon as he's away with his son competing in a state triathlon championship . However , I'll try to throw in a few dad jokes to make up for his absence . But also it's a little different in that we have three guests joining us today . Last year we ran our Emerging Leaders Program with our long-term clients , r&j Batteries , and internally they called this program Charge Into Leadership .
Speaker 1This episode is not about promoting the Emerging Leaders Program . From our perspective . What it is about is discussing the role different people play in an organization to ensure that leaders emerge and that there's the environment for leaders to emerge . Right now it's so hard to recruit people in any industry and if you're a reasonable-sized organization , if every time you need a new leader or a new supervisor or a new manager and you have to look outside your organization to recruit externally , then the reality is your system is failing . You should be developing people internally . It doesn't mean that external people are not good , because they do bring a fresh perspective to the organization , but personally I would always prefer to have ready-made managers already there within your organization , ready to go to take on leadership roles .
Speaker 1How does this happen , people might ask . The way it happens is we develop them before we need them . We develop leaders so that they're ready for the opportunity , not so that we're looking for them when the opportunity comes . We create opportunities for people to become leaders before they have leadership titles . So today with me I have Jo Preece , who is the National Training Manager for R&J Batteries . I've got Glenn Kennedy who at the time of the program , was the branch manager of the Beresfield store with R&J Batteries , and I also have Dylan Smith who at the time of the program , was a CSR , which is a customer service representative , and at the time had no direct leadership responsibility . Dylan went through our Emerging Leaders program with Glenn as his direct leader . Welcome everybody .
Speaker 2Welcome .
Speaker 1Hello , kiralee . Very good , really excited to be recording this . Joe and I have talked about this for a while , so it's really good that we've been able to get this happening . So , joe , I'm going to start with you . You were a big part of this program rolling out and it's something that you are really passionate about with R&J . Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what drove your need for this program and what led you to believe that this would be something useful for your organization ?
Speaker 4So it come about because I took on the training role four years ago and we had three branch managers to actually train then and there , and it was very difficult for me to train external people all at the same time .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 4So it got me thinking about putting something together or something to the CEO and just having a conversation and saying we need to do something to actually develop our people . So we're not looking externally for branch managers outside , because it's very difficult to actually teach them everything . Plus , they've got to teach their and lead their team members at the same time . It would be a lot beneficial for the business to have people ready to take on those roles , and that's why that program come about and it was a long time coming . It wasn wasn't just a five-minute solution . We built on it and obviously talked with you and Simon , who we are missing today , but it was a long conversation that we had with Stuart and yourselves and then we finally got the program put together and we released it last year .
Speaker 1And so we had the Emerging Leaders Program and then we tinkered around with it a little bit to really specialise it for R&J , and part of that was the name Charge Into Leadership . But also part of that was who takes part in this program . How do you guys roll that out internally and how do you choose the people that get that opportunity ? So can you talk a little bit about how you and it wasn't just you , I know , it was a lot of the managers and senior leadership team how did you determine who took part in the program ?
Speaker 4So we put out a expression of interest in the beginning to get everyone who thought that who wanted to participate in the program . They could have been anyone in the business , doesn't matter what role they they had taken on . So we got an expression of interest and then we could only hold the program .
Speaker 4I think from memory it was about 13 yeah team members because we wanted to keep it nice and and small so we can actually have those one-on-one interactions with uh , with everyone at the time . So so then we shortlisted , spoke with the general manager at the time and I obviously didn't know everyone personally so I couldn't really have any influence on who actually would be chosen to actually go in on it . So it was Jason Hanley , our general manager , who actually finalized the 13 participants to go through the program actually finalised the 13 participants to go through the program ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and when the participants either put their hand up or were nominated , their direct managers played a big role in this , in saying yeah , you know , we think we're up to it . Glenn , why did you think Dylan would be a good choice to participate in the program ?
Speaker 2Dylan was to me was a no-brainer the program Dylan was to me was a no-brainer . He had all the qualities there that could be learned from and he could easily progress into that role with the qualities he had . He was very self-sufficient , he was very well-organised , Time management was good . So he had the base there to be a good leader and I found it a no-brainer to really put him on board . I could see that he could be training for this program . That would make success for him .
Speaker 1And what were your thoughts on having a team member go through the program when you were given the opportunity , like when R&J said we're going to run this ? What were your thoughts on creating emerging leaders ?
Speaker 2I thought it was fabulous Yep , absolutely fabulous . Emerging leaders I thought it was fabulous Yep , absolutely fabulous . This is a big benefit to the company and a big benefit to the employees who want to take part in it . So , being that I had gone through it previously , before the leadership program started , we had it , I don't know , four or five years ago . We all had it ourselves through Simon and the benefit it was given to me as a branch manager early in my career as RMJ beneficial . So I thought , yeah , this was really a no-brainer , this has to be done . The benefits were just too big to walk away from . You had to do it .
Speaker 1Yeah , and Dylan , how did you feel about participating in the program ? I know you put your hand up and said to Glenn you know I really want to take part in this . How did you feel going into it , knowing that I guess you were in a program where people had lead it , like there were supervisors and people that were leading people and you were in a role that you didn't ? What appealed to you about it ?
Speaker 5For me personally , it was a lot of personal development really . I'd been doing the CSR role since starting the company seven odd years ago and I really just wanted to dive headfirst into something that I hadn't
R&J Batteries Emerging Leaders Program
Speaker 5done and then just really apply myself to it .
Speaker 1Yeah , and you were really the perfect example of someone who started practicing leadership before you had an official title . And that's what we always say when we're working with people , like we want leaders to be practicing leadership even if they don't have a leadership title , because the more leaders we have and so you're the perfect example of that how did you find entering the program and the pre-program of that ? How did you find ? Um , the entering the program and the pre-program work , like how did you ? How did you find that ?
Speaker 5um , I won't lie , it was nerve-wracking to begin with um , but yeah , once again it was .
Speaker 5it was something that I just really was um passionate about about diet and I I took those steps , kind of how I say , like taking a more of a leadership role within just the team ourselves and how we interacted and how we operated , just using that as baby steps towards seeing if it was something that I was genuinely interested in and as of a course of action it was . So I definitely wanted to pursue it further once the program was announced .
Speaker 1Absolutely so . In this program we had around 12 participants and the reality is two-thirds of them had enthusiastic support from their managers , and of those around eight , we believe seven made significant progress , and we'll talk about Dylan's progress in a little while . Of the four who didn't have the same committed support , only one made good progress through the program , and there's a direct correlation here . Which is the point we're really trying to make is that you can send people off to Emerging Leaders Program . You can send people off to any type of leadership or development , but the people who really help people develop and in this case , the people that really help emerging leaders emerge , are their direct supervisors and managers . So , glenn , can you talk to us a little bit about what you did to support Dylan through the program and why did you think that those actions were important ?
Speaker 2Well , he knew the structure of our branch , he knew the way that I operated and I just wanted to pass on as much of that knowledge to help him progress . So it was very important that I showed him and give him some time to try and train these techniques as well . So , yeah , he actually was fairly lucky to get a great opportunity because , as this program was in progression , he was early stages of feedback . I actually took a long break of annual leave so he pretty much got thrown into the deep end there , but he was very confident of doing it as well . I said , well , try this technique , try that technique , do this . And he was very welcoming to that information and I was really proud of it because it was something that he put in and did and progressed well .
Speaker 2So , yeah , you've got to give them guidelines , you've got to give them techniques . Um , everyone's got their own personality and style , but I was very confident dylan could use these coaching techniques that I have learned from myself and progress on to him . Give him as much techniques and as much ideas as he can , as much feedback . It's going to help anybody , yeah .
Speaker 1But I know Dylan's already put his own spin on it since talking to him after I've been up here , which is great , yeah , and it's so good that when we share things and people , they take what they need from it , and then they practice it and see how it lands and add little bits and pieces to it and learn from it . So that's the perfect circle , really , isn't it ? And then they can pass that on to the next person .
Speaker 2Yeah , he's got his own style . He changed my office around straight away , so it wasn't on his own straight away , but yeah , no , that's him coming his own direction and his own style . Yeah , but I'm sure he got benefits out of that for sure .
Speaker 1And we always say , like we hear a lot not with R&J , but we hear a lot when we have people come to us wanting to us to work with people . You know , my people won't step up , my people won't step up and we say , well , you need to get off the step , you need to give them room to step up . And I think , glenn , you're the perfect example of someone that gave him room to step up whilst you were still there helping him , but gave him the room and gave him that safe environment to just really see how it lands , learn from it , discuss feedback , all the things that someone needs when they're learning new things . And , dylan , so talk to me a little bit about that journey through the program for you and maybe give our listeners Glenn alluded to it a little bit , then but give our listeners a little bit of an idea of where that's led for you personally in R&J .
Speaker 5Yeah , well , starting off in the program , when we first did our meeting down in Ballarat with everyone , that was really the kind of the final push that really wanted me to pursue it like learning .
Speaker 1What I learnt in that workshop was really the kind of the final push that really wanted me to pursue it , like learning .
Speaker 5What I learned in that workshop was really like all right , this is where I want to go . Coming back from that , I spoke a lot with Glenn one-on-one and said , you know where can we go from here ? And he did exactly that . He directed me on the kind of right path and then , yeah , we just went down that way and continued on and obviously we've ended up where we are now , which is awesome .
Speaker 1Talk to me about what that is , because our listeners won't know what the current situation is from where , like I introduced you at the time , glenn was the branch manager and you were the branch CSR . So talk to us a little bit about what that looks like now .
Speaker 5Yeah , well , thankfully I ended up as the new branch manager of Beresfield , which is absolutely awesome .
Speaker 1Otherwise known as our charging , the leadership golden child .
Speaker 5Yeah , and it's been awesome , Like it really has . I was a little bit nervous coming into it . Obviously , working alongside the team now to leading the team was a bit of a step that I found difficult , I would say . But once again , with Glenn's training and even going through more of the program steps as we have been , it's been really really helpful in getting my head around it and understanding it and actioning on it better .
Speaker 1So , just on that , when you said that the challenge has been going from being part of the team to leading the team , that is a challenge that so
Glenn's Support of Dylan's Leadership Journey
Speaker 1many of our leaders will have experienced and will be experiencing . What's something that you could maybe share with them about what has helped you through that period of time , in moving through it ?
Speaker 5Yeah , Once again , it was a lot of one-on-one with Glenn , with Wade , my current state manager , talking through challenges like that that I had with them , and they would kind of they wouldn't give me the answer , they wouldn't spoon-feed me , but they'd definitely point me in the right direction and allow me to freely put my own spin on it , which was the main thing , making it more of a personal thing coming from me , not just reading from a script , which was really good , and myself and the team we really worked through it together and , yeah , now we're in a really I feel we're in a really , really good place .
Speaker 1Dylan , what I really loved about your style from the first time we met in Ballarat was when you weren't in a leadership position . What you initially concentrated on was putting those leadership layers over the interactions that you had with people . And I know when we put some of the strategies in and you were taking it back to the workplace , a lot of those was conversations you were going to have with people and coaching conversations that you were going to have with people . And I think for people that step into a leadership position , most people would say that the biggest challenge they have is the people issues and the conversations that they need to have . So how did that help in your step forward , knowing that you'd already started practicing those leadership ? I like to call them leadership layers because they're the layers that we put over our everyday behaviors of what we do , say , think and decide . So how did that help , knowing that you'd already been practising those things before you were actually given the formal leadership title ?
Speaker 5Yeah , once again it just helped ease into the transition rather than just being a clear cut from one to the other , and it really it was very much a practice run for myself , obviously , throwing different techniques out there , seeing how they landed . If it landed the way I wanted to , fantastic . But if it didn't land the way I wanted to , then I'd take a step back , have a think about how I approached it and then tried to readdress for the next time . So it was just , yeah , a lot of trial and repeat .
Speaker 1Yeah , and winning and learning , we win and we learn that . A lot of trial and repeat , yeah , and winning and learning , we win and we learn . That's exactly so you stepping up into the branch manager and obviously , glenn , you're still here , so you didn't go . You went far , but you didn't go far from not externally to the company . Can you talk a little bit about what that meant for you in being able to create this opportunity for an emerging leader to step in ?
Speaker 2Yeah , it was exciting times for myself as well , and it was exciting that I knew I had someone like Dylan going into that role , which made me confident to make my decision . I mean like personally , which I've moved from Beresfield and I've taken the sea chains up to Queensland and I've taken a new role as the Queensland State Manager , which is a big step in my progression , absolutely . But knowing that I had someone there like Dylan that could fill that role and it's a branch that I've run for 10 years it was very reassuring that someone I had there to do the job . So that was great . And I still touch base with Dylan two or three times a week .
Speaker 2Beresfield was my baby so I wasn't going to walk away from it . So we still talk quite regularly and I may tread on my field stage . Sometimes he's the New South Wales state manager , but you know , if I've seen something up here , dylan's , I'll ring my branch managers and then Dylan's my next call straight away . Yeah , so I've still touched base with Dylan a lot . We still have a great relationship and we still feed off each other still , which is fabulous , yeah .
Speaker 1And it just goes to show you the strength of the relationships that exist within R&J that even when you move away externally to a different state , that there's still that mentoring role of you being there . Oh , 100% .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's so good . So , joe , from an organisational perspective , what does that look like when you sit here and I just I'm beaming because I'm like this is so I love hearing this story ? What does that look like when we think back to what the goal was at the start ? You know , we want to be able to recruit internally , we want to be creating leaders , and not only have we been able to identify Dylan as a leader , but then that's also given Glenn the opportunity to further his leadership career , and he could do that confidently , knowing there was a ready-made successor to step into his role . From an organisational perspective , like , like , how does that feel ?
Speaker 4Amazing .
Speaker 1I've got to say I've had goosebumps the whole time .
Speaker 4Dylan and Glenn have been actually speaking . So it's just incredible for me . I could cry of happiness and just pure joy . Just something that we thought about , that we put together , is now living . This is what R&J batteries is living , and these people get to live it too and enjoy their careers with the business . So it's just phenomenal . I can't say any more . It's just fantastic .
Speaker 1And it is . I think it's good and it is a fact we can say now that , because of the leadership within R&J and the way that not only the leaders applied themselves but the emerging leaders applied themselves through this program , that Dylan's not going to be the only success story Like there's going to be many more that follow after him .
Speaker 4There's already been a couple .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 4Which is awesome .
Speaker 1Yeah Well , thank you guys for sharing this story . I know it's really hard to get the three of you and your busy lives together at the same time , so we really appreciate it . Um , and I think it's just a really it was a story after it happened and we had so much um good . We had such a good story from the end of it . I just thought we had glenn , who really um led dylan so well , and dylan that fully emerged himself into the process and was so vulnerable throughout . I thought it was a really good story that we really should share with people . That what happens when leaders take an invested interest in developing their people and can see the value in sharing their knowledge . Our knowledge is nothing unless we share it , and sometimes people can feel like that's you know , sharing means that I'm less valuable , but all it does is create more
Dylan's Transition to Branch Manager
Speaker 1success within our team and those around . So thanks so much , guys for sharing the story .
Speaker 2No problem , kiralee , kiralee , I think we may have missed one big opportunity here as well . I mentioned Wade Field as the New South Wales State Manager , who was my boss at the time Yep , and he has now done the same that I've done to Dylan . He has actually done the same for me , dressing into my role in Queensland Absolutely . So the mentoring and ideas I've picked up from Wade on this role has been absolutely valuable to my current position as well . So I think it was a three-way street if you really think about it that way . Absolutely , yeah .
Speaker 1It absolutely is , and we are currently for listeners who won't know this , but we have a separate leadership program going with R&J at the moment , with their senior leaders and the amount of people we've had join that along the way , and your state managers play a really big role in that .
Speaker 1You know exactly what you said about wade .
Speaker 1Like you guys are always investing in your people and investing in the time to share the knowledge , and that's one thing that I always look at r and j and think they do so well is everyone shares their knowledge and everyone wants everyone to be better in their roles and they create space really well for people to step into roles .
Speaker 1So that's a really good point , glenn , to share that . And it's um , like you're one of the great success stories as well , glenn , because you know for you for it to be able to come down and go okay , well , you're moving up into this role and we've got someone to move here and then someone to move here like it's , that's that's the goal , that's that's the goal that every organization wants . So , and it hasn't been easy and I'm not going to sell it as a story that's easy . It takes hard work and it takes dedication from the people that are in teams , and it takes dedication from your state managers and it takes dedication from people like you , dylan , that know this is where I want to be and I can see . I know what I'm capable of and grab those opportunities with both hands when they come at you .
Speaker 1Yeah , I know what I'm capable of and grab those opportunities with both hands when they come at you . So , Dylan , just before we finish , how's everything going for you now ? You've had some time to settle in . Are you finding your feet and feeling like you're really hitting the ground running now ?
Speaker 5Yeah , yeah , I feel as though we're in a really good place now . Everyone's kind of adapted to the fact that this is the new normal . Yeah , we're in a really good place now . Everyone's kind of adapted to the fact that this is the new normal . So , yeah , and I've just taken a great lead off what Glenn has left behind and just really being open with the team . That's the biggest thing I could say that I've learnt is just being really open . Don't be afraid to be vulnerable and potentially say something that might make you less of a manager , but is really bonding with the team and really treating everyone as an individual really helps along the way and everyone here , I feel , is really on board with that .
Speaker 1And those moments that sometimes in our heads make us feel like we'll be less of a manager are actually the moments where we become more of a manager for our people by sharing those things , aren't they ?
Speaker 5Yeah , definitely . I've experienced the other side of management , and definitely not the way I want to be , and then when I experience this side , it's like that's where I want to go .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that's what we say align yourselves with the people you want to be , surround yourselves with the people that you aspire to be , and this is a perfect example of that . Well , thank you guys for your time . I really do appreciate it . I know that it's not easy to get the three of you all together , but I do appreciate you all giving me the time that you have for our listeners .
Speaker 2Thanks very much , kiralee , it's been great .
Speaker 4Thank you , kiralee , and thank you Glenn and Dylan for joining in . Really really appreciate your time .
Speaker 2Thank you .
Speaker 1Well , simon , after our Silicon Valley series , I'm expecting you to have a fair amount of FOMO . Since we recorded without you this time , it's only fair .
Speaker 3Yeah , and the dad jokes weren't up to standard , but I think Glenn might have dropped one or two in there at one point . So good on him for filling the void . The dad jokes weren't up to standard , but I think Glenn might have dropped one or two in there at one point . So good on him for filling the void the dad joke void I was actually driving my daughter to dancing last night .
Speaker 1thinking about the recording I was like I didn't throw one dad joke in there .
Speaker 3You had a go at something , but it was pretty lame . I can't even remember what it was . It didn't stick . The rest of the episode was brilliant , but your attempt at a dad joke it was a flop . Thanks for the feedback . Yeah , we'll stay in our lanes . Thanks , my lane's , the dad jokes .
Speaker 1Okay , message heard , taken on board . I'm really excited to unpack this discussion that we had with Joe , glenn and Dylan . I love talking to them . It's a topic that I am so passionate about when we talk about emerging leaders . For them , they had a goal which was to not only identify emerging leaders in their organization but to develop them , and they were so accountable to the process . And the reality is that I guess , as we spoke about in the discussion , is that in any process like this , there will be some people that don't see the value in it , and maybe they're people that's leadership skills aren't that strong at that time for them . But the people like Glenn and I've got a couple of other people here that we can talk about during this discussion but for the people that did see the value in their investment as a leader into their emerging leaders , they're no longer chasing their tail and they're just seeing the rewards of investing their time into the process .
Speaker 3I had a realization a number of years ago as an executive leader , and we were trying to recruit people into some leadership roles . They were sort of entry-level leadership roles , so they weren't senior roles , they were entry-level , and we were really , really struggling to recruit from outside , and one of my comments was why are we trying to recruit from outside all the time ? Surely , we're nurturing this talent within . And we sat down and it was a group of senior people sat down and looked around the organization , and the honest truth was that there weren't people that were at the level they needed to be , and our default was to look at them and go well , we don't have anyone who's good enough . And we actually had to turn that on its head and say you know what ? The fact that we don't have anyone at that point is our fault . It means that we haven't invested in them . It means we haven't developed them . It means we haven't given them opportunities .
Speaker 3What we've done is said we need a leader , oh , let's look around and hope one's ready made , but without actually doing anything to create that outcome , and the philosophy we adopted as a team was that okay , this time it's our fault , but we're going to forgive ourselves for that Next time , though .
Speaker 3It's a choice . So if we're in this situation in three months , four months , six months , and we've done nothing to help people grow and be ready for those roles , then we've let them down . Rather than looking at them and saying they're not actually good enough , they're not right for the role , we need to look and say what have we done ? What opportunities have we created ? Now , if we've done all that and people haven't leaned into it , then we can look at them and say , well , no one's shown they want to run with that . But the whole experience that you have with R&J is that once the opportunity was created , people leaned into it and the results are there . Am I tipping your hand a little bit here if I say not only Dylan , apparently , because hot off the press ? Do you want to share with our listeners ?
Speaker 1Hot off the press . We have another supervisor that is going into a branch manager position next month , which is such a great result and I just , I beam , like I'm just , I'm like Jo , like it's just when you see people apply so much and you see people invest so much time into a process and into a belief in a process and you we now watch them reap the benefits , and that is just it's amazing to watch and so , yeah , so , and it's that full circle again , because the branch manager has gone into a state manager's role , which has opened up a position for one of our supervisors in the Emerging Leaders Program to step up into that branch manager's role .
Speaker 1And that's because , from the top down , there is nurturing for growth and there is space on the step for people to step up in and there is belief in people's leadership and it's amazing to see up in and there is belief in people's leadership and it's amazing to see , like Joe rang me the other day and we were cheering and you know we can't wait to catch up in Melbourne for a couple of weeks and have a celebration drink about it , because it's just great to see . And I think when you see that they're in a position now where they are able to identify ready-made leaders and what I think the biggest takeaway for people listening to this right now is , we speak to a lot of leaders . We speak to a lot of leaders that have a lot of years' experience , right through to very green leaders that are new to the role . The number one problem people have when they step into a leadership role at any level is the people issues and it's dealing with the people issues . People have great technical skill .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely they suddenly have all these people , issues that they need to deal with . And for this group of emerging leaders , that's what we equipped them with . We gave them strategies and we gave them the confidence we coached them through how to have a difficult conversation . We coached them through how to have a courageous conversation , which we call- .
Speaker 3How to sit with uncomfortable .
Speaker 1Yeah , how to sit with uncomfortable when you have to raise something that you might kind of go . Oh , I don't really want to go there . I'll ignore it this time and I might bring it up next time .
Speaker 3How to approach people .
Speaker 1That's right how to embrace people when they do something really good and really bring the team . And that was something that one of Dylan's goals was . He goes . He's a CSR driver , so he takes all the stock and he goes around and he has relationships with all the people , that they all their customers , he deals with all of them . And he said and he won't mind me saying this he said you know , most days I just jump in my car and go . He said I'm going to make an actual conscious effort to go and have a conversation with the people that pack my car and go hey , can I give you a hand with anything ? Thanks so much for doing that . Did I let you know how much easier that makes my job once I get out there and know that everything's in there and in an order that ?
Speaker 3makes it easy , just really little things like that . These are those leadership layers that he started practicing before he was .
Speaker 1he had no staff , he wasn't responsible for anyone . He made a conscious decision . I am going to put leadership layers over my behavior because I want to be a leader . So when that opportunity comes , I want to be ready . And this is how he was identified as one , because they could see all these things he was doing that he didn't have to do .
Speaker 3Well , he self-identified , didn't he ? He ?
Speaker 1chose to do . That's exactly right . And he , by definition , emerged as someone that was ready to take on that role and I just think that ,
Organizational Impact and Success Stories
Speaker 1with all these different strategies that they learnt , like to see him and to see Brad now in the roles that they're going to be in . It's amazing for the company . It's such a win for them as a team when they have so many people all taking their role and making things happen . It's so good to see when things like this happen for them .
Speaker 3So , if we unpack this a bit , they , in less than 12 months , what they've done is they went through , and I think part of the process that was important is the fact that they the identification process , so where they got people to self-nominate and where they asked leaders to nominate people because what that did , is it tested , why people wanted to be a leader . Was it for the big bucks ? Was it for the ego and the prestige ? Was it because they loved working with people and felt they had more to contribute ? And it helped them identify the ones with those more altruistic motives and the people who were likely to bring , therefore , good leadership styles . It also helped them identify leaders or managers who were prepared to support the person they nominated , so that set them up for success . A dozen people go into a program and within eight months or thereabouts , two people have moved into reasonably senior positions .
Speaker 3Running a branch , running a store , is a pretty responsible thing . You're working autonomously , you've got a reasonable number of staff , you're responsible for quite a bit of turnover , you've got to make lots of decisions and you've got to , as I say , do that reasonably autonomously . But that's also enabled them to push an excellent candidate up into the next level of leadership . But it all started with that responsibility . If we want leaders , we need to create leaders and then the process they use to identify them . And it's just a no-brainer , isn't it ? And I'm not saying that everyone would love to do emerging leadership programs for everyone listening , but I'm not saying that's what they have to do . But you've got to do something to have your leaders emerge . It won't happen by chance , it won't happen by luck .
Speaker 1It can be as simple . I received an email after the program from one of the branch managers up in Queensland and he emailed me just to say how much easier his life is now . He said when he used to go away on holidays he used to have to think about whether he would be out of mobile phone reception or not because the branch he's a branch manager the branch would rely so heavily on being able to bring him to assist with day-to-day operations of the branch . And since his supervisor went through the program and together they worked on empowering him . How those conversations look just the confidence , that coaching leadership of when someone comes and says you know , what do you think I should do ? Well , what do you think you should do .
Speaker 1And that was one thing that Rob did a lot . He said you know , what would you do if you were making this decision ? What would you do ? And really give him the confidence and the safe space to have a go at making a decision and see whether it lands or not before he's on his own and he said that it's a lot at this by learn , by him being able to learn these strategies as the branch manager , but also him creating the space for the supervisor to step in . He said it's allowed him to introduce so much more tasks to the supervisor .
Speaker 1And he said recently he took some annual leaves and while I was away , one of the biggest things was he noticed that there was no phone calls received from the branch and that his supervisor had really found his feet and was finding the solutions for the problems he faced without needing to call him for backup . So whilst it's great and I love the fact that we've got people emerging and stepping into senior leadership roles , it's also just about leaders being able to make their life easier when they need to not be at work If you're a leader that can't leave because you need to check your emails and check your phone all the time .
Speaker 1It's that what failure of leadership led to here . What am I doing ?
Speaker 1And maybe you're not empowering people enough and you're not spending enough time investing time into your people so that when you go away , they have the confidence to be able to run , and that's the ultimate goal . When you walk away , to go and leave , or if you have to go out of the office , 25 phone calls over three days is not that you are needed . 25 phone calls is the fact that something is not right here and we need to look away . I can't leave and people can't do what they need to do .
Speaker 3Well , I had a conversation with another branch manager , another store manager at R&J Batteries , and he was telling me how his 2IC never steps up when he's out of the shop . This branch manager , by the way , has moved on . He , he was not able to grow into the , into the role , and I think one of the limitations was that he was he , he was , he wasn't developing people around him . But the question I asked him if people are not stepping up while you're and in particular you two , I see isn't stepping up while you're out of the store , how many opportunities did you give them to step up while you're in the store ? Because wouldn't that be the safest way to do it ? Get them to step up while you're in the store , be there to catch them , be there to build their confidence .
Speaker 3When I say catch them , I don't mean catch them doing things wrong . I mean catch them if they fall . They catch them . I don't mean catch them doing things wrong . I mean catch them if they fall and be there to support them . Debrief , unpack , and it won't be long until stepping up becomes just what they do . But they also do it with confidence , they do it with skill and away they go . It sounds to me a bit Kiralee , like from your Queensland email there . There might be another one sitting there waiting just for that opportunity to emerge . So it's a great thing .
Speaker 1We've had some really great discussions with Stuart , the CEO , and the fact that they can see it internally as well , like it's great that we see it because we deal with I dealt with all of them one-on-one because there was a coaching element to the process as well but it's so good that internally they are now seeing they're reaping the benefits of the investment they made , both the investment they made in the program but the investment that each person involved in that made with their time .
Speaker 1And I love that . They know well , we've got that person . That's you know they've got people almost earmarked now for leadership . They're going , like you know , he's going to be a really great leader . So he'll be someone that you know we need to keep developing and he's someone that I know can step into a role if it becomes available . And it's exactly what Joe said at the start . You know they identified they had a need for . You know they wanted to be able to reward people internally , but people just weren't ready to be able to reward people internally but people just weren't ready . Now that they're reaping those benefits , which I think is so good to see .
Speaker 3The way I'd say it is that luck is when opportunity meets preparation , and there's a lot of preparation here and just waiting for the opportunity . But let's talk about the . Let's have a blunt conversation here about some realities , because not everyone in the program has thrived to the same degree and not everyone has had the same preparation . The reality is that we identified , of the 12 and you raised this in the interview , but I think we're going to drill down on it because this is a massive lesson for our listeners Of the 12 people in the program , eight of them had significant support with some urging from you . No , that's not unfair on them . Some of them did it with no urging because that's what they were doing . They were in that place . Some of them needed some urging and prompting from you and then they got it and went with it . Bam . Of those eight , all of them all eight made measurable , significant progress and two of them are now in more senior roles .
Speaker 3Of the four who didn't have the support from their , they didn't have the same level of support from their immediate supervisor . You know their immediate supervisor saw it as an interruption to their work or was too busy or didn't value it or whatever . Of those four , only one stepped up . Yeah , of those four , only one stepped up . And what that shows us is that if we want anything to work , it could be an emerging leaders program or any development process , but I think , especially in an emerging leaders program , the leader of the emerging leader plays such a pivotal role , because if we leave it to the other individual to step up without the support , we leave it entirely down to their motivation . But it also comes to the point where they get discouraged . They go . I tried to do this and I got undermined . Or I tried to do this and it wasn't valued . Or I tried to do this and then I was told I should be focused .
Speaker 1I feel like my manager doesn't feel like this is a value .
Speaker 3So I probably shouldn't concentrate on this . And people stopped doing it . And so only one of the four Now I know this is not a scientific process but eight out of eight who had support from their direct supervisor , good level support , made tangible , measurable improvement . One out of four who didn't have that . You know , it's not , as I say , not a scientific study , but those numbers make it pretty clear and that's carried , that's borne out by so much other , so much evidence we see in workplaces about whether people develop or not .
Speaker 1Yeah , and we talk . I had specific conversations during the program , but we talk about this with anyone that we work with , in that there's always going to be interruptions , we're always
The Critical Role of Manager Support
Speaker 1going to be busy , we're going to have pressures , we're going to have staff away . There's always going to be a list a mile long . We need to make a choice of going . If I do this now , I'm just going to do 10 minutes of giving my emerging leader some value from me today . It can just be 10 minutes , but when we decide , not to do it , nothing changes .
Speaker 1Nothing changes if we don't change , and that was the message that I always try to get across to people is that you are always going to have , there's always going to be , staff issues . There's always going to be people away during winter , there's always going to be . You know , I've got so much to do . I've got reports due . Any leader in any organization will always have pressures . What ?
Speaker 1we need to do is go the 10 minutes I give this today or the 20 minutes I give this today . I will reap a reward from this . This is worth my time because developing people is of benefit to me and I think that that was the difference between , I guess , probably the leadership , understanding of the value of their time , investing in it , of going .
Speaker 1I know that this will come back because the people that did invest in it , they knew the benefit of it , they could see the potential and they knew the benefit , whereas I think some other people were too caught up in the technical side of things to see the benefit that would happen from the people management side of things .
Speaker 3Little challenge for our listeners . Honestly , hand on heart , how hard is what I'm about to suggest ? But , on the other hand , how often does it happen ? How often does it happen ? So , a conversation with someone , an emerging leader , who's had the benefit of some training , been to a workshop , had some coaching , and sitting down saying , hey , what are the two or three biggest things you learned that you'd like to try and work on and how can I give you some opportunities to practice those ? Because that's what turns that workshop learning into workplace skill is the opportunity to practice it . How hard is that ? It's bloody simple . How common is it ? It's bloody rare , because I would say very , very few managers now , because of the support and encouragement you gave and because of their own capabilities . That happened with two-thirds of the managers who led people that were in this program . But that's one of the key differences that simple conversation .
Speaker 1And it's those light bulbs that start to go off when they do that . I did it and it actually helped me . I sat down and I taught them how to do this and the next time they did it and I didn't have to do it and it was a job that I hated doing and I always had to find time and you see , these light bulbs start to go off of people when they start . Like you know , I did it and it worked and they can step up and they've done the job that I need them to do , and now I'm reaping the benefits of investing my time back here , because right now I'm getting back time , because someone can take on more it's managers recognizing and anybody in any leadership role can do that .
Speaker 1I think any leader can reflect and I loved that about Dylan , like when he said that so much of his process now that he uses when he's working with his team , when something doesn't land , he just does that self-reflection of going how could I have done that a little differently ?
Speaker 4And what role did I play in that not landing well Like that ?
Speaker 1is just so essential to taking that leadership step and bringing your team along with the journey , and he's had such a challenge Like and there's , so there will be so many listeners out there that will have had the same challenge . It's hard when you go from working with your mates and being one of the team to suddenly now you are the boss , so to speak , and you are responsible for the accountability of everybody and you're responsible for the tough conversations as well as the good conversations . It's a really hard journey to take in a short amount of time .
Speaker 1Absolutely and he's just embraced it and I really think that vulnerability and that ability to self-reflect and self-assess for himself and to be able to say to his team you know , yeah , okay , maybe I didn't get that right , but how about we think about this next time ? That is just going to put him in such good stead for the goals that him and his team will achieve .
Speaker 3The funny you should take is there because I mentioned in the intro that I'd gone a bit rogue and I had deferred the words of authenticity which you've just led us into beautifully For listeners . I refuse to share with Kiralee what the words of authenticity were , because she said something that just made me stop . I listened to this while I was out actually having a short walk this morning . I listened to the interview she did because I obviously wasn't there for it , and these words made me stop and I had to stop and write them down .
Speaker 3It was when Dylan talked about being open with the team , not being afraid to be vulnerable , being okay , not being the manager or doing something that's not very manager-like and some absolute pure KW gold . She responded without really thinking about it , just in the conversational flow , which actually made it more profound for me . She said it's the moments when we feel that we're doing something that may make us seem less of a manager . Those are the moments when we become more of a manager and I just made me stop and think about it . Those moments where managers admit they're wrong , where managers admit they're not perfect , where managers are prepared to be vulnerable . They can feel like the antithesis of being a manager , but those are the moments that make you a better manager . Amazing words , kw . Thank you .
Speaker 1And it's probably one of my biggest leadership lessons as well , and people anyone I've worked with will hear me talk about this but that would be allowing the vulnerability and allowing me to let my guard down , that I don't always have to have the solution , always don't have the answer , and sometimes we get it wrong . It has absolutely been . What has been the moments where I've taken the biggest steps forward as a leader with teams is when you just let your guard down and go . Yep , you know what ? Sometimes we don't always get it right , and it's how we recover and it's how we bounce back and , like I said to Dil , it's winning and learning . And how do we learn from this when we don't win ?
Speaker 3Absolutely , kelly , an amazing interview . I think you know we're a development company and given the interview was better for my absence , there's two ways we can respond . One is to get rid of me . The other is to develop me . So we'll invest in developing me and hopefully I can lift that standard . It was a fantastic interview and you should be really pleased with what you've achieved with that team , but also to be able to bring out that real humanity in that standard . It was a fantastic interview and you should be really pleased with what you've achieved with that team , but also to be able to bring out that real humanity in that interview . I loved listening to it . Well done .
Speaker 1Thank
Final Thoughts on Vulnerability in Leadership
Speaker 1you . No , it's definitely been one of my favorite projects to date , so I really enjoyed it .
Speaker 3See you next episode , everyone and see the real thing . Come and see . The real thing . Come and see . Come and see .