Cycling Oklahoma
We will talk about everything cycling in Oklahoma. We cover races, athletes, bike industry, local gossip and everything fun that has to do with 2 wheels.
Cycling Oklahoma
Racing Adventures and Coaching Journeys w/ Mark Te Ruki
We're thrilled to have the passionate and inspiring cycling coach, Mark Ta Ruki, from Tulsa, who has devoted his life to mentoring young cyclists. Mark has been a transformative figure in the cycling community, having impacted many, including the Drummond family. With Ryan Drummond's exciting selection for a World Cup cyclocross event in Europe, Mark's influence is evident, showcasing his dedication to nurturing talent and fostering a thriving cycling culture in Oklahoma.
Embark on a journey from New Zealand to America, where a cyclist's adventurous spirit led him to the competitive cycling scene in the United States. From daring races in snowy Colorado to finding a new home base in Oklahoma, this episode recounts the trials, triumphs, and camaraderie experienced on the pro circuit. We explore the evolution of the Tulsa cycling program, where post-mono realizations led to a shift from racing to mentoring. Discover how the passion for empowering the next wave of cyclists brought about personal growth and community development.
As we reflect on the advancements in cycling training and technology, this episode dives into the transformative power of coaching, modern tools like power meters, and the balance between cutting-edge techniques and traditional coaching wisdom. By creating engaging environments for athletes and embracing new technologies, we highlight how coaches like Mark are shaping the future of cycling. From empowering athletes with knowledge to celebrating their victories, this episode encapsulates the spirit of community, dedication, and the relentless pursuit of excellence in the world of cycling.
Instagram @materuki
Facebook @ Teruki Training
Ryan Drummond GoFund Me
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-ryans-journey-to-europe?attribution_id=sl:6597de89-dd84-4c59-a738-cff279d15c8b&utm_campaign=natman_sharesheet_dash&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link
What is up? Cycling Oklahoma? Thank you so much for tuning into another episode. I know I say that every time, but I am very, very, very thankful. We got our stats for the downloads and our listeners and all that stuff for 2024 and blew it out of the water water. We had about 5000 downloads. 34 different countries have tuned in to listen to the incredible athletes that we have here in Oklahoma and I am so thankful to everyone who has downloaded and listened to an episode. Thank you to all our incredible sponsors, to everyone that's helped out, given ideas, given recommendations of things that we can do to the website or to the podcast to to make it better. I greatly appreciate it and without this incredible cycling community in Oklahoma, none of this exists and we don't get to hear the stories of all of our amazing friends and athletes. So, thanks again and um, you know, as I always say, please go to um cycling Oklahomacom.
Speaker 1:Download some routes. If you have some new gravel routes, send them over to me. I really want to put some new ones on there. It's been a while since I've been able to update any new routes that anyone sent to me, so I want to share your favorite route and maybe we can highlight some on Instagram so we can get people out in your neck of the woods or people to get out and explore some of the trails that you've or routes that you've created and or really enjoy riding. So go to cyclingoklahomacom, please check it out.
Speaker 1:Have some new video ideas and been doing a lot of research on some new places, so we, of course, need sponsors and money and all those things to pay for these, uh, really cool things that we're trying to do here. So if you want a sponsor, if your company wants to sponsor, if you know somebody who would be good and potentially would step up and help with these projects, please let me know. Shoot me a message. Uh, check, uh, check us out on Instagram. Uh, at cycling Oklahoma but cycling Oklahomacom, you can get all the good stuff. You can see our amazing video, um, that we work so hard on. So we have some good ones. We just need the funds to go produce them, um. So if you want to step up and be a sponsor of the videos and any of the things that we have going, please let me know and reach out. If you have someone who wants to be on the podcast or you would be a great guest. I'm absolutely would love to talk to you, um, and again, this episode is brought to you by more overhead door. They've stepped up for a long, long time to help us out. Um, please reach out to them If you have any garage door needs whatsoever. You know the spiel. At this point, they're located in more Oklahoma and, uh, they and they support us. All of our sponsors are people in our cycling community and it's just great for us to be able to put dollars back to them and help them out. But more overhead door at 405-799-9214, 405-799-9214, or look them up online Just Google more overhead door they're going to pop up. Have them come out and take care of you. But I greatly appreciate everything you guys have done. Just go out, love each other, wave at each other on the bikes, get dirty, have fun. And again, thank you so very much. This episode was so fun.
Speaker 1:Mark Taruki, who is an incredible coach and once you listen to this episode, you'll realize just an absolutely amazing human as well. Um, I have been trying to get Mark on here for quite a while and we just could never make it happen. And, uh, he is a cycling coach out of Tulsa. You're going to love his story. It's absolutely incredible and, um, it's a really, really good one. He's he really gives everything he has to the sport of cycling and to our youth and trying to continue to grow the sport, and he's done this his entire life. So I really think you're going to enjoy this one. I want to say thank you so much to Chris Drummond that helped set this one up and helps host this episode with me. Mark has coached basically the entire Drummond family at one point or another and clearly everyone around Oklahoma knows how fast that family is, so the guy might know what he's talking about. So if you're looking for a coach, please hit Mark up. He's a great guy, clearly knows his stuff and knows how to make you fast. So all of his links and everything are in the show notes of this episode.
Speaker 1:But Mark um is also going to be the beneficiary of Mr Ray Hall's 12, uh, 12 hour mountain bike race in March or April. I believe he moved it to April. So if you ride mountain bikes, um, if you want to donate to someone who who is in a time of just needs to cover some expenses and has some things going on in his life where he needs some help. You can see the full story there, uh, on the 12 hour uh link that I'll be posting here. But Mark uh is going through some crazy stuff in life right now, needs our help and, um, you know, this episode was great for him to sit down and share his knowledge and share his story with us. So I hope you really enjoy this. But Mark Trucchi is an absolute wonderful human and please check out the 12 hour race that Ray Hall is doing in Tulsa. That will be benefiting Mr Coach Trucchi.
Speaker 1:So, and the other thing that I would like to add into this is one of Coach Trucchi's athletes, ryan Drummond, just got picked to go to a World Cup in Europe. This is an incredible thing for cyclocross to get to go race in Europe to do it. You can listen to RyRy's episode that we've done and you can hear whenever he was able to go to Europe before to do cyclocross. But he just finished third at single speed cross nationals, which is crazy and so cool. And with his abilities that he's shown this year, his talent that he's shown this year, he got picked up by Team USA to go race in Europe at a World Cup.
Speaker 1:They are fundraising this. It's on a GoFundMe. I'm also going to put that link in the show notes so you know you want to ride your bike and help someone in our community. You can do that in April at the 12 hour race. You'll want to donate a little bit and help Ryan get to Europe, try to chase this dream of becoming a professional cyclocross racer. He gets that opportunity to take that next step. You can do that by clicking on the link that's in the show notes. But I hope you enjoy this and, uh, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2:Just a quick warning. We're now recording so little. Now you can spill all of the good shoes when we were getting started. We did this until all of the magic. This interview remote, so I think we're having some microphone issues. So the sound quality is there. You can hear everything and it's good. It's just a little bit different than you're used to hearing, so we got the problem at minimum in the future.
Speaker 2:But this one was 100% with our connection. Even when I did Rise Rise, just turn it up a little bit you got to get Mark on here.
Speaker 1:Have you got Mark on here? Have you talked to Mark? And I'm like, well, I clearly need to talk to Mark, so thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having me on, ron.
Speaker 1:I think I dropped the ball about a year ago, I think there was some contact and but I'm happy to be on and thanks for having me on, I appreciate it. Uh, yeah, I think. Uh, I think, just to get started, I mean jump in with with what you were getting ready to start talking about and uh, let's just see kind of where we go from there as far as how you got into cycling, kind of a little bit of your background and kind of where it all started with you yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, um, some you know listeners may or may not know originally I'm from new zealand, so I grew up in new zealand and, um, you know, my dad used to race um and I I got I started racing I don't know 12 years old, I think. Um, new ze Zealand scene was pretty much you raced the road in the winter and you raced on the track if you had one available in the summertime, and luckily, in the town I grew up in we did have a velodrome. It was an outdoor cement 400-meter track rugby field, and so, yeah, you could, you know, race the road in the winter, go on the track in the summertime, and so you develop. You know, race the road in the winter, got on the track in the summertime, and so you develop a pretty good, well-rounded base there. There was no way. Cyclocross was not a thing in New Zealand at the time and mountain biking hadn't even been thought of at that time. This was like early 70s, so it goes back a long way.
Speaker 1:Did you play any other sports like rugby or any of the traditional sports in New Zealand?
Speaker 3:I did. I played a lot of sports growing up. I played rugby, swam, I did a road crew in high school, I did judo. I did a lot of sports.
Speaker 3:I just you know I loved doing sports but ultimately, you know, when it came time to start sort of paring it down, cycling is what held my fascination. I think and I'm not sure exactly why I mean, I had some success that had to do with it something. You know, if you're set for something's, it's easy, you enjoy doing it. But I also, um, I just, I just love the sport.
Speaker 1:I think that's why I stayed in it a long time, because, uh, ultimately, you know, I just love the sport and love getting out riding my bike and in that time frame in new zealand was cycling a very popular sport or was it pretty like niche and kind of like low key, kind of similar to how it is kind of here in Oklahoma?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was definitely niche, pretty small at the time, and one of the things that's amazed me is how the sport is growing over there. Amazed me is how the sport is growing over there. Um, you know, in the, in this and since, in the 2000s I mean, I think they developed a really good. I think they followed the model of the um, the brits and the australians, and that they developed a lot of guys through the belt, through the track program, um, and built them up through the track racing and then they went into the road side of things and, um, you know, we developed a lot of world tour riders now over in europe. So it's growing. But yeah, back then it was, it was a pretty small sport. Um, you know, my one of my friends, freddie karcher, from down there in Norman, he used to talk about it being a sport of maladjust and misfits and that's pretty much what it was in New Zealand at the time, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Nice. And so when did you get into like taking, like, hey, I think I got something here, like I found some success, and I want to go all in on this. What did that transition look like and that road look like?
Speaker 3:You know it just kind of happened. You know it's just like year by year. You just kept building, you know, went through the junior years, went off to college. The writing kind of took a backseat while I was in college because I just I wasn't good enough at both academics and cycling to be able to like juggle them both. I tried and was unsuccessful, so kind of took a back seat while I was in college. And then, coming out of college, you know I was devoted back to racing more.
Speaker 3:You were still in New Zealand at this time this time, yeah, I was, I was, um, this is the mid 80s, early 80s, um, you know. So the, the, the schedule of races of new zealand at the time was, um, uh, it was. It was a good series of races, but you, but you end up doing the same races every year. It's a pretty small country, and so I had a friend who had come over to the States, graham Bond. He had come over after the Olympic year, the Los Angeles Olympic year, and he came back and said you know, the racing in the States is really good, the weather's great, um, the food's good, they speak English. I was supposed to go into Europe, um, and the money was good. And so I was like, why don't I? I don't know, he was going back in 86. Um, and I was like, oh, I'm going to come and join you. So, uh, jumped on a plane, you know bike and two sets of wheels, and came to the States to live the cycling dream over here, is that?
Speaker 2:when you had that 13, that 1319 freewheel that you posted on Facebook that wide range cassette.
Speaker 3:I think we might've had eight speed by then.
Speaker 2:Still down to shifting, though had hadn't gone to sbi yet so I gotta, I gotta, pull that picture up and show it to ryan. This is what you said so.
Speaker 1:When you came to the states, where did you where? Where did you land at? Where was the first place you came?
Speaker 3:um flew into colorado?
Speaker 1:well, no wonder, he thought it was great.
Speaker 3:Well, there was snow on the ground, so we thought we've got to get out of here. It's still early. So we went down and did what used to be called the Tour of Texas. A lot of you know weeks of consecutive or weekends of consecutive criterium racing and then, kind of you know, well, well, the interesting thing for me was, um, you know, criterium racing was not, you know, new zealand, the right, it was basically road racing. So I'd probably done five or six crits in my life before came the states and then I got here and you know, it was just crit after crit after crit and they were fast, and the first couple of weekends I just I was out of my league. You know, it's just I, I I've never seen so much speed, um, you know, and and cornering, and I I kind of had to learn how to race again because it was different, and so that was humbling.
Speaker 1:When you came over, were you a pro already.
Speaker 3:I was not a pro, I was racing as a Cat 1 over here. Cat 1 pro each field combined care. Okay, so cat one pro each field's kind of like combined but um, uh, how long did you plan on staying?
Speaker 3:when you came over, were you like hey, I'm going over for good, I'm just going to go race for six weeks and then head back no, I'll kind of six months kind of like, and then the plan was to go back to this, back to new zealand, to finish out the season there with the you know, national championships and, um, then this, then they, after that in new zealand, that time you went into stage racing, um kind of season, and so finish out with the national championships and then, uh, do the stage races back home.
Speaker 3:So at this point you were racing full-time for a living yeah, I was trying to make it, you know, go a a bit. I didn't have a lot of money in my pocket and, you know, just trying to make a go of it. I mean, I wasn't really thinking about going pro or anything like that. It was, you know, it's like I mean, you're racing the pro one field, so the money's the same. But I just wanted to see given the ability to train full-time. Back in New Zealand I always had a job, as did everybody. So the ability to train full-time and then also the incentive of not having a backup plan. Basically, I was here, you know, on a visitor's visa, trying to make a living out of racing a bike, you know, earning prize money. So there was no backup plan. So that all of a sudden.
Speaker 1:How did you live, like, how did you afford? I mean, you said you came over with not much money in your pocket. I don't know if you know this, but bike racing in the States is not a good way to get a lot of money in your pocket take you in hostels.
Speaker 3:You I had Freddie Carter, like I said, and Norman took me in and gave me a lot of support at the time and gave you the means to travel around, and then sometimes you would just hitch a ride with somebody to the next race. You know, didn't know who you were going with, crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean I know times were probably I mean considerably different back in the in the 80s as far as how things operate and stuff. But like my limited travel of the world, I can't fathom going to the other side of the planet not knowing anyone with my bicycle, me like I don't see what happens yeah, and I think I was pretty naive.
Speaker 3:You know, it's just like my buddy had done it. So I was like oh, this sounds like a good idea. You know how old were you uh 25 oh my goodness you know, you know, at 25 you're pretty. I mean I would never do that.
Speaker 1:Now what your family think when you like, went to school. You went to college and you're like, hey, or your friends that weren't bike racers, like I'm going to go travel.
Speaker 3:You know, I think my dad secretly thought it was cool, because you know he was a cyclist and so he would. You know he thought it was great. My mom not so much. So what are you doing? But, um, yeah, but nevertheless they supported me, um, and you know, my, my friends that weren't cyclists, they, a lot of them, were doing. I mean, they were living life on the edge too.
Speaker 1:They were playing rugby or you know, making a go of their life. So they, they thought it was great. You know you had to learn the crit, the crit scene and those kinds of things. But like, what was your thoughts when you came over of? Like man, this place is what I thought it was going to be, or was it just like? This place is ridiculous?
Speaker 3:no, I had, um, you know, the people were great. I mean, the people have always been great. Um, the the biggest thing, uh, for me was the sheer size of the country and how, you know I'd be like, oh well, we're going to go to a race in Colorado and we're in Oklahoma. It's like, okay, it's just the next state over. I didn't realize that was a day of driving to get there. You know, the whole of New Zealand is the same land mass as the state of Colorado. So, oh my gosh, to be able to drive for 12 hours and not having actually left the state yet just blew me away. It took me a long time to figure out that. It was going to take a long time to get to places and lots of long car rides, that's just 14 hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one day.
Speaker 1:It's just a drive. It's weird how that changes.
Speaker 2:So you came over initially and we're in colorado. When did you get to oklahoma, or how?
Speaker 3:um, you know. So we came back, um, did the tour of texas. We'll do the end of that. Um, and then kind of what was happening, how the racing was going in the States at the time. It kind of migrated north with the weather getting warmer.
Speaker 3:So there was a stage race in Norman called the 89er stage race. That was on the US racing circuit at the time and so that was kind of one of the next stops on the way circuit at the time and so that was kind of one of the next stops on the way. And there I kind of ryan and knew the guys and norman from racing there previously. Um, so we got kind of hooked up with freddie at buchanan bicycles at the time and, uh, he hosted us there and then, um, uh, that kind of became my base because he, you know, he had a place to put me in or had a, you know one of the riders took me in, gave me a place to sleep, and so that kind of became the base for us for that for that year and we just kept covering the races from there. So that was my introduction to Oklahoma.
Speaker 1:And it's only 14 hours from all the other races, though you're central so that's yeah, that's how I ended up in oklahoma, I mean um yeah you have success, that that first start to your racing career in the states was their success that brought you back, or what was the reason that you came back?
Speaker 3:well, actually, you know, you know, I did have some success.
Speaker 1:I mean nothing monumental, but I this episode, along with our amazing video that you can find on Instagram at Cycling Oklahoma or YouTube at cycling Oklahoma, is brought to you by Ethan Hume. Of thriving financial, ethan is stepped up and become a great sponsor of the podcast and a great sponsor of all things cycling in Oklahoma. He really has stepped up and puts his money behind his passion of cycling, sponsoring races, sponsoring this podcast, sponsoring our amazing video. If you have any financial needs whatsoever, ethan is the man. He is such a great human. He stands behind all of us in the cycling community with his money and his advertising and making our events better. And Ethan's a super fast dude. He won the cat to a tour to dirt series this year.
Speaker 1:So please reach out to Ethan If you have any financial needs whatsoever. Ethan can help you with so many things with life insurance, mutual funds, retirement accounts, just basic financial guidance, because you don't know what's going on in these times of need. Reach out to Ethan If you have any questions whatsoever financial. You can find him online at Thriventcom. You can reach out to Ethan directly. He's here in Oklahoma city or in Edmond at 4 0, 5, 3, 5, 9, 7, 2, 8. 3. 4 0, 5, 3, 5, 9, 7, 2, 8, 3. Reach out to me and I will put you in connection with you know I had.
Speaker 3:I had some good races. I had some good races and ultimately, end of that year, I did get mono and so went back home and my season was done. Obviously, in the meantime I met a young lady here and we we got married, so we went back to New Zealand.
Speaker 1:Now we hear the full there. It is Okay, Got it.
Speaker 3:Um, and then she, you know she was from Tulsa, um, so we went back to New Zealand for a couple of years, um, and I really did think we were going to, I was going to come back the next year and race again. I really did think I was going to come back the next year and race again. And then, after you know that summer, back home, getting on the bike again after the mono, I was out riding one day training, and I just did not want to do this anymore. It went through my head. I just turned around and rode my bike home and said I think I'm done racing, um, and it was just, yeah, I was, I was not ready to do it all again, um, and so, yeah, then I got a real job and went to work, but in the meantime we uh decided to move back to tulsa, um, and that was, I think, 1990.
Speaker 3:Moved back to Tulsa, wasn't racing, but I was still riding. And then I connected with Adam Vanderberg who owned Lease Bicycles and he had started a junior development team called Team Powertrain and I just, you know, went down and talked to him. I said I'd likeertrain. I just went down and talked to them and said I'd like to help. I don't know what I can do, but I'd like to help you with these kids because I think having a junior program is great. Maybe I can help with these kids.
Speaker 2:Do you remember? I've heard about this team, team, maybe give some names, because, like these kids, I think are all the all the really fast old guys in tulsa now yeah, I mean so, um, and there's some, you know there's some old.
Speaker 3:I mean brian duvall started on this team. He was one of the early members. So, brian, you know, get local guys up here know him. A lot of guys have moved away but we had I'm trying to think of some other guys that are around here Was Leslie ever part of that? But oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, jake was jake kind of, was in kind of the next, uh, he was a few years later. He came in but yeah, jake was a big part and he that, yeah, he, he was strong, he was a strong junior, I know.
Speaker 1:Actually.
Speaker 3:I've got to. Just so one winter, I mean, it came down, I woke up and it was snowing, it was way below freezing and it was not rideable conditions, not rideable conditions. So I called um jake up to give him an alternate, you know, indoor plan and his dad answered and, um, he said he was riding his bike. And I was like, well, you know, can I, can I talk to him? Well, no, he's he's. I'm like where's he gone? He's like, yeah, jake was out riding in the snow and the ice and whatever else was going on that day. I was, I mean, I am convinced he was probably the only guy riding his bike outside that day.
Speaker 2:Nothing's changed then, because he would still do that.
Speaker 3:Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed. That is Jake.
Speaker 1:So that team is how you got started working with juniors and that was your first time like coaching athletes, or had you coached people?
Speaker 3:not just. You know, I wasn't even um, you know I wasn't looking to get into coaching or anything like that, I just kind of wanted to help them out. And there's a, and it just kind of evolved, um, and then I'm in a really good, good job.
Speaker 1:What did you do for living um personal training? Okay, so you were in the fitness world?
Speaker 3:yeah, I was, yeah, okay yeah, um and so, um, we had a really good program and and was well supported also by, uh, the other big club at the time, tulsa Wheelman, and they had guys like Greg Saunders. I mean, greg had done the Giro d'Italia.
Speaker 1:Gary.
Speaker 3:Holder, multiple national champion and just a really, oh, Rich Chillingworth. He had written in Europe so there was some guys in the Wheelman that also helped, you know, kind of manage all of these juniors and take them out on team rides and group rides. And yeah, we just kind of developed this program and at the same time.
Speaker 1:Do you remember how many kids you guys had early on? I mean, did you have like 10, or was there like 30 kids? I mean, that's what.
Speaker 2:I was telling.
Speaker 1:Chris, it seems like Tulsa cycling has always been such a different level.
Speaker 3:Yeah, probably between, at any given time, between 10 and 20. Okay, and it kind of morphed through the years 10 and 20. And it kind of morphed through the years. At one point we had a contingent of BMX kids, you know, and then one point we had a lot of mountain bikers, so they weren't always just roadies, but yeah, between 10 and 20, seems like you know.
Speaker 3:And about that same time USA Psychic was trying to develop their coaching development program. So I got on board with that. Chris Carmichael had taken that over and I think he was really visionary in terms of creating a pathway for coaches so that, you know, riders could get good coaching and also, you know, looking for a pathway for coaches to make money and professional coaches. So I got on board with the USA cycling coaching program, you know, got certified, went through that and and that was that was a great experience, um, to be able to get around other coaches, see what they were doing. Um, they brought in some guys from overseas, european guys, um, had some big conferences. So that was that was a great experience.
Speaker 1:And then it just kind of all blossomed from there um so and so at this time, say in the 90s and stuff, where did you race at all yourself? Or you still just like, I'm done, I don't want to do this anymore, I just want to ride my bike for fun I'd kind of uh, chris is gonna hate to hear this but I'd kind of morphed into some multi-sport stuff.
Speaker 3:I've done some running to stay in shape and attaboy ryan loves here.
Speaker 2:He's probably not wearing socks right now.
Speaker 3:Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1:Ankle socks.
Speaker 2:There you go, he mountain bikes and ankle socks. All right, I'll turn my mic off, you two can talk about this.
Speaker 1:I will tell you a great story about one time. He was I don't know if I think you were I don't think you'd moved to Tulsa yet we did a mountain bike race at St Crispin and I was like, oh, I'm going to wear ankle socks Cause I know drum and I'll be there. So I'm definitely wearing ankle socks Cause this is going to be funny, cause he always gives me crap about it. So I show up and there was one spot I wrecked and what was the one part of me that became bloody?
Speaker 3:my ankle, yeah, so I get done.
Speaker 1:And I walked over there and he's like oh, those stupid socks. All stuff was like all right. I have to admit, look what happened and he loved it. I was like all right.
Speaker 3:I guess yeah, but every once in a while I gotta still bust them out I, um, I had to stay in shape because I had to keep up with these kids that I was coaching. I mean, I was, you know, we would go out, you know, do a team ride every Sunday and, um, these kids were starting to get fast and so I, you know if I, if I, was sacked off, I couldn't keep up. So, um, yeah, I did enough to stay in shape. Um, you know, I did some triathlons just to mix it up and, yeah, did enough to keep up with the young kids for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then when did this become like I'm all in on the coaching thing and like I really want to go full blast on this thing and really make a difference for people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you know. Uh, the same year, the first year for tulsa tough was the same year I decided to kind of go full-time coaching. I decided, um, you know, if there was any better time I mean this was you couldn't have a better time to jump on that in Tulsa. At the time, I mean, the cycling and racing had exploded in Tulsa. Participation was big. And then, you know, with Tulsa Tough starting also that year, it was just riding the wave. It's like this is the time to do it. If I can't do it now, I'm never going to do it. So I'm not even sure what the year was Early 2006, 2007, something like that. And yeah, I've been doing it ever since.
Speaker 1:Doing it ever since then? Have you had let's go back to this the athlete that you've coached? What's the biggest race that they've done, and has it always been cycling only, or have you done?
Speaker 3:I the biggest race I've done. I've had um several my athletes you know, and if you know part. So back up a little bit what I. So I got an opportunity to um work a um one of the training camps for usa, cycling out at um, the olympic Training Center out in San Diego, and I think that was end of the I think 99, something like that. It's like their winter-based training camp out in San Diego and going into, you know, going into that, I kind of thought, well, you know, I'm going to take this coaching thing and hopefully become a national coach, work for USA Soccer and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3:Then, when I got and did that camp, I came away really with a revelation that what I really liked to do was develop young writers. Um, you know, by the time they got to that national level, um, you, you were more managing than coaching. Um, and, and that's even you know, even more so now I think, with with kind of the take, the taking over of the development by proteins now to a large degree, really love to do with work with up-and-coming riders, and it didn't have to be juniors, it could be, you know, a cat for a 30 year old that wants to see what he can do in the masters level, whatever it might be. But I really liked developing riders, um, and then you know, for the, for the juniors, you know I saw my role as to develop them, to get them to a point where they could then go on to the next level. So I did send several of my riders did go race for.
Speaker 3:USA Cycling and went to Europe. So they raced over there, some of the big junior races over there and the U23 races over in Europe, races over there, um, and the u23 races over in europe, so, um, but you know, by then they were again under usa cycling coaching or uh, um, or taken up by a team, so that was kind of you really found your niche with the juniors yeah, I did, and you know, like I said, it didn't have to be juniors, I mean, I just became you know.
Speaker 3:Um, and this is probably one of the things that you know. Like I say, it didn't have to be juniors, I mean, I just became you know, and this is probably one of the things that you know. You come up with people getting into the sport think, oh, I'm not good enough to be coached yet, let me do a couple of years of racing, then, when I'm good enough, I'll get a coach. It's like no, no, no, you've got that around the wrong way. The coach can help you get there quicker, um, than you muddling around by yourself trying to do it yourself. So you know, that would and doesn't have to be me, you know, if you've got access to a coach and there's many coaches out there, um, if you're a beginner rider, um, look into getting coached because, uh, it'll, it'll make it a quicker progression for you than just trying to muddle around by yourself, trying to figure it out by yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I touched on that a little on our last random podcast, and what you're really great at is.
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Speaker 2:You give a good coach. You know, I got this many hours a week to ride my bike and they just make the most of that time. That's where, when you're getting into it, you're not going to go from you know a cat five to a cat one in a year. But the transition is smoother because you're learning to do everything the right way, Right Yep, and you're making the most of the time you have. Right, yep, and you're making the most of the time you have.
Speaker 3:That's what you've always been great at with me is, you know, we've given me a realistic training plan based on what I have to do day to day. Right, yeah, and that's that's. That's a big part of you know what I see, my, my role, as is, like you know, I mean, if you've got 20 hours a week to train, don't worry I'll, I'll find 20 hours of training to do it. But you know, most people do not have that, and so my job is to figure out how we get, you know, bang for the buck in the 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 hours you do have. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What before you guys? Kind of we started digging into how you guys met and kind of bring you into the athletes that you're working with these days and kind of how you see coaching now what have you seen, because I mean, you've been coaching kind of from the beginning and when coaching became a thing, what are some of the big changes that you've seen outside of, like the technology you know, with power meters and training peaks and those kinds of things, what it has? Has coaching and the athletes changed a whole lot or has it still pretty much? You know it's. It's pretty simple and pretty much the same thing. Just times change.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question, ron. Um, there was this. There have been changes, um, and that's uh, I was thinking about this the other day when I was thinking about coming on. I was like the great thing about having been in the area and the realm and the profession for this long is, you know, every time there's changes uh, there are, there are still, and there's there's things that I did. I remember when I was a, you know, a 13, 14 year old kid and and one of the adult races I was around with would give me some advice and it's amazing how much we did back then. We didn't know why we did it, but it was done and you were taught to do it. And now you know, decades later, the science behind it all and that's the big thing is now we've got science behind everything, but there have been changes.
Speaker 3:There have been changes and I would say, obviously, with power meters, with technology, with science, we're understanding a lot more. That's pushed a lot of the changes seen and where I'm kind of not just me, you know other coaches too um, where I'm focused in on now there are two areas, um, uh, one one is again with having power meters available. Now we now see the demands of an event. So if you, if you're doing a 60-minute criterium or a four-hour road race or a 45-minute cyclocross race, we get data off your power meters now that show us the demands of the event and that then allows the coach to go back and say okay, what do we need to do in training to match those demands and improve your ability to do them? So that's, one area is we're able to kind of look at the demand of a race and coach accordingly. And the other big thing is, the last couple of years, this concept of fatigue resistance or or durability, in other words, the ability to be strong at the end of the race when you need to be.
Speaker 3:And again, um, this has come from having power meters. There's been some interesting studies done. When they look at world tour riders, um, and the next level down of professional riders, um, what, what makes a difference between those guys? And so they'll do power tests with them, um, in a, in a fresh state, then they'll have them, do you know, 3 000 kilojoules of work and then do those same power tests at the end of the 3 000 kilojoules, for example, um, and that's where the difference is being made. It's like how good are you when you're fatigued? How good are you at the end of an event, the last hour of an event or the last 10 minutes of a crit, for example?
Speaker 2:And so I'm always pretty tired at that point.
Speaker 1:That sounds like the worst workout of all time. I don't hire a coach, he's like, oh, this is really hard, go do this Like no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Then the trick is trying to get. You know, how do you, how do you put that into a training, how do you put it into a workout?
Speaker 1:You know have you seen riders over the years become better riders like power wise and on that side of things? Or is it more of the, I guess, the marginal gains from like nutrition? We can dial nutrition a little bit stronger and better now because we know more, we can get recovery better. Because we know more, recovery better because we know more. Um, so is the athlete better? And or is it the marginal gains of the technology and the bicycles and the low-hanging fruit of recovery and those things that we just didn't know back in the day? What have you seen on that stuff?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean it's hard to separate those things right. I mean that was. I mean that was my experience when I came to the states that year. To race was like, um, sure I was able to train more, but I was able to train more because I was able to recover more. I didn't go and stand on my feet for eight hours at a job, you know. So I could, I could go out and put in. You know, I put in 90 miles in the morning, come on, take a nap and then go to the local evening, local crit in the evening and get a 60 minute crit in, um, and then, you know, get up the next morning and go out again.
Speaker 3:So, um, it's hard to separate the recovery, recovery techniques, um, from the person getting better. But I mean, there's no doubt, um, I mean riders generate generationally. Riders are just, they're getting stronger, you know. I mean I go down and watch races now and I'm just like these guys are so much faster than we ever were. And you know what is it? Is it the technology, the recovery, it's the training, it's a bit of everything you know, and they're just like all sports. The athletes are bigger, stronger, faster, um, and that's, you know.
Speaker 2:Soccer is no different do you have you had issues, I would say, in the last five years just with so much of this of the knowledge that you have being public knowledge Now people can look up training methods and do you have a lot of pushback from athletes? I mean, I I'm sure I've done this a little with you, but thinking they know what they need and and not actually knowing what they need just because they read like an article online.
Speaker 3:Um, but I enjoy that. I mean, I, I enjoy working with athletes that are also knowledgeable. I think it's, I think it's um, it's uh, it's easy to fall into. Um, I'm gonna tell you what to do and you're just gonna do it without questioning and or questioning it, um, and that's that's not good coaching. Um, and I, I do like, I do like questions or athletes questioning me why, and I, I, you know probably one of my weaknesses I'm not real forthcoming sometimes with why we're doing something, and it would probably be helpful to do that, but I do enjoy engaging with my clients. Um, you know, why are we doing this? Why are we doing? I read somewhere that, are you right?
Speaker 2:I mean, knowledge is out there and it's, it's great um and um, what I know I've, I've challenged you before and then you explain to me why we're doing it and I'm like, oh yeah, he knows more than me. It makes me, it makes sense. Like now I get why we're doing it. Yeah, which I think is important to note, because I think there's a lot of athletes that, like you said, they just they're afraid to question it, they just do what they're told and they don't realize that.
Speaker 2:You know, you as a coach, work for me as an athlete if you're paying correct, so you, you are in charge as the athlete, the coach is not in charge right in that sense, and I think that's probably 90 of the time.
Speaker 3:It's the opposite, I would agree yeah, yeah, and I think, um, you know, and, and there's, I mean you know this, you know, overall, I, I, there's probably no bad knowledge. Um, it's just a matter of like. It's just a matter of like. It's just a matter of how you apply it. When you apply it, is it applicable to your circumstance, your situation? And I'm not always right, you know. I mean, and that's, you know, I'm not always right. Sometimes I'll scratch my head and think, well, you know, maybe he's got a point here, maybe we should look at something. I tried it. I, hopefully. Am, you know, flexible enough to not get bogged down in my own thought process or belief system, which, you know, I don't have a lot of strong belief systems. I think everything is open, is open for evaluation, um, and and looking at.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Are you um your coaching style? Is it much more based on intensity, or is it much more based on duration, or is it every single athlete you take completely separate?
Speaker 3:I do it's, it's, it's all, it's all separate, it's all different. Separate I do, it's all separate, it's all different. And you know, again it comes back to often what time availability they have. I have general principles that I adhere to or think about. I adhere to or think about, but there's different ways to apply that. So you know, I'd say, if it's one way, I mean again it comes back to you know, at some point there's a demand of the event. You know it's racing, so there's got to be some intensity in there. How do you apply that? You know, how do you develop enough of a base foundation before you go into intensity so that you know it can be their race day? But yeah, I don't have so are you still working?
Speaker 1:You still do a lot of work with juniors and new riders. Is that still kind of your sweet spot?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm working with you know, working currently with several of the flyers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is so. Let me ask you this then. So what would be your? I mean, this is completely abstract and just a couple of basic guidelines for a junior getting into writing. It's just like you know, their parents are just getting them into it. They like it, they're just getting started. What are a couple of basic guidelines for that? And then I have a couple of other follow-ups with that, with different segments of population.
Speaker 3:Would it just be just to go right, I think you broke up a little bit there, sorry.
Speaker 1:Like what would be some basic guidelines for some juniors who are just getting into writing?
Speaker 3:yeah, so, um, you know, first of all, yeah, get around other juniors if you can, and then you know you've got that. It's certainly in tulsa. They're lucky enough to have that, because nothing's I mean my, some of my best memories growing up was sucking with that. You know me and my 13 yearold buddies all hooking up on a Sunday morning to go out and ride together. You know, just clowning around having fun. And you see that with the Flyers nowadays and the group that Ryan came up with, you know Chris's son, I mean they just came up in the sport together. I mean Ryan used to have that nickname, bunny Hopping Wizard. I mean they just came up in the sport together. I mean Brian used to have that nickname, bunny Hopping Wizard. I mean these kids were like 10 years old, could barely walk, but they could bunny hop their bikes, you know. So get another kid your age, I think and just enjoy.
Speaker 2:It.
Speaker 1:Basic principles as far as training. What's that again I said, are there any basic principles for a new racer as far as training? What's that, again I said? Are there any basic principles for a new racer as far as training? Like as far as, hey, just go put in, just go, just go ride your bike and have fun and and put in a couple of, like you know, hour and a half long days, or is it? You need some intensity, or is it just be unstructured and go play for a couple of years?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do, I do. Even I. I kind of I build in the structure. So my first time working with Ryan, when he was still pretty young, and Aubrey too, they were both pretty young, young and Aubrey too, they were both pretty young and um, and even with, uh, isaiah and Leaf right now, the first few years I was with them, I limited the structure because I didn't. I knew that that's kind of the thing that can kill the fun for the kids early is is, you know, all structure all the time. So I try to build in the structure and, frankly, when they get out and ride together they're racing, they're getting their intensity just racing each 20 of intensity when you get two of them together so a lot of that.
Speaker 3:But you know, I mean I'm um. You know, when I started working with isaiah a couple of of years ago, it was a very short period of time. I think it was six weeks that I worked with him the first year, so that again it wasn't all structure all the time. And then I focus on the basics. I mean cadence is a big thing for me, pedaling cadence and juniors used to have a gear restriction. They don't anymore. I know why they don't, but I kind of do miss having it and I mean it was. You know it was easy for the coach because they were already gear limited. Now the coach is going to tell them what gears to restrict to. But the development of a fast, high pedaling cadence, smooth cadence, will last you throughout the years. And what, um, what, what I mean?
Speaker 2:I I now teach that to the kids I work with and even adults I work with, like the the cadence side of, because you taught me that you were telling me you know track racing, you spin high cadence, you're producing more power, and then I didn't really believe it because it's counterintuitive. You're mashing on the pedals and you think you're putting out a lot of power but you're just fatiguing. And so I've, I've, yeah, I've learned that from you and pass that on to people that I've coached. Yeah, and it's like a funny story that I tell people sometimes, when you, you started working with aubrey when, I think when she was 12 and you were very, yeah, he was very limited on what he gave her and it was, I remember he. He asked me what gearing she had on the bike and I told him and he's like all right, so have her.
Speaker 2:You know, the workout was based on like two different cogs, like have her do this long in this cog and this long in this cog at this cadence. And so what I did because she didn't know what cog she was in she'd do this on the trainer as I uh, I got a cassette and I painted one blue and one white, and so she knew like all right, lucas blue, cog, white, she would just look back and, on the trainer, she could shift into those gears. That's super smart. Um, but yeah, that was, uh, that was like I. I like that you said that because it's I teach that now, because I learned that from you yeah, and what?
Speaker 3:what people don't realize is that you know you build the cadence up and then, as you develop as a rider, you're able to transfer that cadence into bigger and bigger gears. So guys now are riding huger gears than I ever used to ride, you know. But the cadence is having to change. That's how they've gotten faster. You know, the guys are still riding, you know, 9,500 RPM. They're just pushing bigger gears than what I was when I was racing. That's how that speeds come about, um do you think equipment?
Speaker 2:do you think equipment is you know just, we're joking about that free will earlier but the fact that you didn't have an easy gear to spend sometimes right, you could have been hard to develop that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know it's funny, chris. Um, I still and I'm a, you know, I'm a natural 96 to 102 RPM spinner, that's my sweet spot. But I still ride climbs in bigger gears than everyone around me and I think I just I had never I've not learned to use, um, you know, the gears that are available now. I mean, I'm I'm not on a 19 anymore, I'm going to swing on the back now and I need it. But but, uh, it's kind of interesting when I go out on group rides and I'm on and I'm on um some hills and I see guys me spinning and I'm like man, I can't spill, I can't spin on a hill that fast. It's like it just feels unnatural to me and I think it's just years of you know not having those gears available.
Speaker 3:But you know, also, going back to kind of ideas with kids is, you know, you can send them out and just tell them. You know a way to kind of build in some intensity without it being through instructions. You can tell them to go and ride a loop or a particular route with a hill in it and every time they get to the hill they're going to go as high as they can up the hill. You know it might be a two-minute hill. That's their two-minute interval and then the rest of the loop. They can do whatever they want, but every time they get to the hill they're going. I go um. You know where was it?
Speaker 2:that you took, took my kids and some of the others and it was like, uh, the radio tower or something, a climb, um, I was talking about it like two weeks ago. He said ryan and aubrey both were is either water tower or radio, is there was a climb up to it and you guys would ride out there and you'd make them climb it.
Speaker 3:Do repeats and it might have been that ride might be down light hill.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, yeah yeah, so you take them out like go up this hill and that that was their intensity and it kind of like you know you almost have to trick, trick the juniors into into the intensity by making it a game like that and yeah, yeah, yeah, um, but it's funny they still like everything they've done. They still talk about like we were. We, I think we're at flyers cross, yeah, and one of them brought that up and they still talk about it because that's right by where that hill is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense it either worked or scarred them one or the other, I don't know somehow of them, printed them.
Speaker 3:I don't know if it's good or bad either way, they got success.
Speaker 1:so it doesn't matter what the mental damage has been, it's it works. Yeah, yeah, I do that same kind of workout. I still coach, uh, some multi-sport athletes and I I do that same thing on on a lot of their runs. I'm like go run and when you have an incline, run hard. And you don't have an incline, just cruise. And it's amazing how much that just changes things up as like a fart, like workout, and they get. They get a lot of work in without realizing they get a lot of work in Correct, yep, yep, that's good. Yeah, it's more relaxed and enjoyable.
Speaker 2:So how did you two, did you? You guys meet you and chris and the drumming crew, I reached out. Yeah, I reached out to you. Yeah, I never had a coach. I was just. I mean, for several years I was doing pretty well racing tour de dirt, that's kind of all I was doing and local crits or circuit races, but I would just ride. I just went out and rode hard like I didn't really know what I was doing at all. Um, but then I decided I wanted to get better and I didn't really know of any coaches. I knew of mark, I'd heard his name but I'd never met him how many years ago was this?
Speaker 2:I think it was like 2012, 2013, around. It was around then it was when I worked on bike one right before I left bike one, um, but yeah, then I reached out to him and asked him about coaching me and he said, yeah, and we started working together, probably 2013, 2014, I would guess Then pretty consistent for several years. And then right now it's like I don't do anything, and then I'd send Mark a text. I'm like, hey, I want to do good in a couple weeks, so you make me faster.
Speaker 1:I haven't done anything for six months. I roll the dice every time. Next week I have a race. What can you do?
Speaker 2:Then I'm like I didn't feel good this weekend.
Speaker 1:He's like yeah, well, you had a train.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's how it went. I love that, though. I love it when you know Chris or any of my old clients you know, reach out to me again and say hey, I'm getting back in. You know it's like just I'm always happy to help and love it when you know people kind of take a break and then get back into it and want to set goals and do things.
Speaker 1:So are you, uh, are you a very science-based coach with technology? I mean, you say, hey, you need a power meter. We're going to look at this and dig into the numbers and kind of go about it that way. Is that how you work with the drummonds?
Speaker 2:blue gear, white gear, that's right what more science, do you think than that?
Speaker 3:I don't, I don't require it. I love the science side of it and you know, I mean there's a lot smarter sports scientists out there, you know that have really done a good job of being able to channel information down to, you know, people like me to where we understand it. But I do enjoy, um, delving into the science side of things. And if a person has a power meter, for sure, um, I can get all all sciencey on that and go down web. You know wormholes, um, and you know that's funny at this time of year is the kind of time you cause it's it's a slower time of year, um, and so this is kind of the time of year where I'll often go down wormholes and start delving into research articles and, and you know, don't come up for days but, um, but I mean again, with a 13-, 14-year-old kid, the sport's expensive enough.
Speaker 3:You know I'm not going to say to his parents go and buy this. You know $1,000 power meter, you know, and again, we can get 80% of the benefit without it. You know it's like an 80-20 rule and so you know, I mean, if he's got a Strava account, I can see what he's doing on Strava and you know, then we might get a heart rate monitor and that's helpful. And then as he progresses usually they you know how it is in the sport you know somebody has something, the next person wants it. So, whether it be a fast set of wheels or a power meter, you know so eventually they'll get to the point where they want one themselves. And so, yeah, I enjoy that side of it.
Speaker 2:I think that's a nice thing about smart trainers at least I agree. Like I'm working with the Beeson kids a little now and you know that's a family that can use one Like I have them maybe on that trainer once or twice a week for power and the rest is pretty. You know, just perceived exertion or loose writing. But but they, they, you could buy that one smart trainer and everyone in the family's got a power meter if they need it. That's, that's been a game changer, I think, for that type of thing yeah, I agree so.
Speaker 1:So you've worked with the whole drum and crew at this point I have haven't coach vanessa yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not yet wait, she'll.
Speaker 1:She'll come out of retirement and be like hey, I want to do this race next week and it's 24 hours. What should we do? What should we do? Yeah, yeah, do you have? I have a list of uh of other like for the yard sale. Do you have any other stories that you want to hear out of him that you haven't gotten to ask?
Speaker 2:no stories. I mean I kind of got the backstory, um, I mean I've got. I've got little experience as a so far. But for you and it might be a hard one to to uh say, but do you get more satisfaction? Or or do you out of maybe an athlete that wins a big event or you just see like a cat four, cat five have a big breakthrough and maybe kind of achieve the same level you know in their world, like what do you, what do you appreciate?
Speaker 3:Obviously, you know, winning stars and stars, things like that, those are the, those are the, the the pinnacle, peak kind of events.
Speaker 3:But yeah, like you said, chris, um, for me as a coach, uh, I get as big a thrill out of.
Speaker 3:You know the person who just got on a bike this year and heard about this thing called unbound gravel um, and so they thought they might like to go and do the hundred mile of that, you know, and having no idea what they're getting themselves into, um, and then just the elation of uh, of them completing that and you know, and seeing what that does for them as a person. You know very um, you know they might have been insecure about their ability to ride a bike and all these sorts of things, and there's no what you know what have might have been insecure about their ability to ride a bike and all these sorts of things, and there's no. You know what have I done? I've entered this 100 mile gravel event. I've never done a gravel event. So seeing, you know, no matter what the goal is, seeing the growth, the development and seeing my athletes reach their goal and helping them get there, no matter whether that's a local criterium, their first gravel event or a national championship. It makes me feel the same way for all of them.
Speaker 1:Do you know how many national champions you've coached? Ah, I mean, if they were nice, they would let you hang a jersey in your house.
Speaker 2:He's got one of my jerseys.
Speaker 1:He has it. Oh, he does have one there. It is Perfect.
Speaker 3:Well, that worked out. I've had that's awesome.
Speaker 3:I think One, two, three, four different athletes win national championships. I believe that's pretty great, yeah. Yeah, I mean it's hard to do. Chris will tell you. I mean, obviously it's hard to do, right, not everyone, but you know to. You know something like the national championship race. You know, like the Olympics, you know to be to do it on the day. You have to do it in the moment you have to do it. When you know, like the olympics, you know to be to do it on the day, you have to do it in the moment you have to do it. Um, when you know you've got 50, 60, 100 depending. You know, on the event, other people trying to do the same thing. They're all trying to win too. Um, it's, it's, it's an incredible, uh achievement to get that stars and stripes jersey. Um, and chris knows he's, he's had podiums. Um, and you know it's like to, to get it all together on the day. Um, on the day it has to be done.
Speaker 2:Is is a huge achievement, for sure I mean there's, there's so much, I mean so much luck that comes with it too. Yeah, yeah, I mean you can there's. I would say, when you line up, there's 10 guys that could win and now you've got like four or five that are having a good day and actually can win, and then you've got to have one that has everything go the way it needs to go. Yeah, like that's. That's. The really hard part is like your bike could break, you can crash, like whatever. I mean you get so much that goes into it aside from the preparation. But yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 3:It's a tough thing, yeah yep, and I think you know sometimes, um, you know, because I mean we're kind of blessed around here to have people like you know, chris, um, jake, leslie, um, you know, people have won national championships that are right here, and so I think sometimes people look at these riders that have won and it's like, oh, you know, anybody can kind of do this, and then, so clearly, well, I mean it's funny.
Speaker 2:It's funny you say that we were we're gonna have jake on but we have to reschedule. But like the only reason I won is because jake won, like jake won and I never even it was never a thought that like I could win a national championship and then I watched jake do it in and I'm like wait a minute. I can do that do it right, I could probably do it. Yeah, and I feel like that actually just started this, because the next year, brandon.
Speaker 1:Malak won. That's probably the same way it happened with Malak and then.
Speaker 2:Ray Hall won, Like we just had this year after year of national titles in Oklahoma after Jake kind of set that in motion. That's the way I look at it because I never believed it until I saw him do it.
Speaker 2:I mean it makes sense. It's like you see someone that's just like you in it, not someone that's from across the country, and it's like, oh well, they've got this or that there. It's like anybody can do it. You've got to really commit to it and put the work in, and then, of course, you've got to have the luck on the day to everything to go well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but yeah to everything. Well, yeah, but yeah. So yeah, I agree, chris, there's, you know, you realize. You know there's a. There's a great story about, you know, frank Shorter, the American marathon runner. He won the Olympics, not sure where. But there's a story out there about you know one of his friends, you know, and he used to run with him and he you know what shorter wins the olympic gold medal and his friend was like huh, you know, I, I thought you needed to be something, something, someone special, you know, to win olympic gold. You know it's like this is this guy that he trained with and you and he's just like an ordinary guy. But, um, you know he, he put it all together and won the Olympics. So, you know, you don't have to be anything special. You just you got to be prepared to do things that are special to get there. But yeah, you have.
Speaker 1:You have any other questions? Before we jump into yard sale.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:We did a little segment we call yard sale. These are just fast questions. They can be simple, simple answers. So you can or you can let them go, and if chris comes up with any any off top of his head, then we'll go with that. Um, what's the besides? Like arrow, of course. What's the biggest difference you've seen in bikes over the last 20 years?
Speaker 3:Well, I would say power meters. I mean, is that bikes? That works?
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably the power meter. What's your favorite workout to prescribe? Just because it's your favorite workout, it doesn't have to have a reason. Just what's your favorite workout that you end up prescribing to most people and it could be tweaked to their abilities, but it's kind of the base of what you do I would guess I would guess a sweet spot workout yeah, it's not my favorite.
Speaker 2:I've gotten a lot of those.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you do um over the, over the years that's probably changed um, some kind of probably right now my favorite would be some kind of version of a um, moderate effort into a high or max effort into a short recovery and repeat those over and over. So moderate to high to recover. And why is that? Why is that your favorite? I think it's very effective. Number one and covers a lot of bases and it's very. I mean, it's how races are. It doesn't really matter whether it's a road race, a criterium, a cyclocross race. Races are all some form of moderate, hard recover and then repeat it.
Speaker 1:And do you change those durations of those segments?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I do, depending on the event, or the uh or the, the athlete, their ability, um, and what we got to make stronger. What aspect of that we got to make stronger, gotcha?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna ask both of you this question and I'm gonna let chris go first. What's the hardest workout he's ever given you?
Speaker 2:what's the hardest workout he's ever given you. It's been a long time.
Speaker 1:It's been a long time since I've had consistent coaching for martin, because I, because of me I mean the 3000 kilojoule and then do a power test maybe the most satanistic thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
Speaker 2:I don't think I'm at that level. Um, I don't, I don't know. I mean, Mark knows that I hate any kind of 30, 30, any kind of those intervals. He knows that I hate recovery rides just as much because I wouldn't do them. Um, he gave me an opener workout this past week. That was pretty hard, but I asked for that, but I can't think of one that's just, that's stuck in your head.
Speaker 1:That was just like whenever I saw it.
Speaker 2:I just hated it okay, I think, when I think at that time I was locked in enough that I didn't care yeah, and now? Now I would probably complain, but I don't get stuff consistently mark what's what's the hardest.
Speaker 1:Some of the harder workouts that you prescribe to people yeah.
Speaker 3:So those, um, you know those kinds of 30, 30s, some version of that, um, not pretty brutal. Um, you know, and, and sometimes it's, you know, the individual is different. So, um, for example, I loved when I raced, I loved going out and doing, you know, 20 minutes, steady state threshold type of workouts I love that stuff um same here.
Speaker 2:I like him too. Like aubrey said she hates him ryan hates him.
Speaker 3:I'd rather do that than 30, 30s all day long right and then, yeah, other people hate those um, and, and you know, say, bring on the 30, 30s. So, um, but in terms of, you know, say bring on the 30-30. But in terms of, you know, in terms of the effect on the body, the side effects, those high-intensity repetitions they're brutal. I mean, they do all sorts of bad things to your body. And the reason we do it is because the races they choose I mean these crazy cyclocrosses they chose this brutal event that requires that kind of effort. So you know, there we go.
Speaker 1:This one, you may take a little bit of thinking. So if we have to come back to it, we'll come back to it. Most overrated piece of equipment Woo.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Uh, to come back to it. We'll come back to it. Most overrated piece of equipment Woo yeah.
Speaker 1:If we need to come back to it while you think we can do that. Yeah, that's an overrated piece of equipment.
Speaker 2:I've got a lot of thoughts.
Speaker 3:Hmm, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Hmm, lot of thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I would say if I was gonna guess I would say and not, and we're not going with the elite racer, just kind of talk. Get this conversation started. I would say a little for the average Joe. Say cap three and up, I would say a light, expensive bicycle. Clearly you don't want one that weighs 35 pounds and you're riding on the road but people spend four thousand extra dollars on something that weighs a pound less and because it's a pound less and they could take that money and get coaching and a power trainer or power meter and faster wheels and a skin suit or kit that fits better and be at the same point and be significantly faster.
Speaker 3:So I would say saving grams on a bicycle would be, I think is extremely that that I, I can, I can agree with that, and certainly, um, certainly, you can put the money into wheels and get bigger savings. Interestingly enough, one of the best bang for the buck in terms of aero is the helmet. Um, so, yeah, you can, you can put the money into things that'll. That'll probably get you um better savings than the the total bike setup. Yeah, but what would you say?
Speaker 2:I mean I, I kind of agree in the same terms, like a lot of the, a lot of the aero stuff, because if you're not strong enough to pedal your bike, you know it doesn't matter. Like, yeah, I guess it makes a difference, but like the, the giant pulley wheels and stuff like that, I mean I just I see the difference. If, yeah, I'm gonna, if I'm racing someone identical to me and and and strength and skill, yeah, it could come down to that well. But if not, I mean I've I've had really nice bikes and got beat by people bad on not nice bikes. I'm just like they were way better than me today, and it doesn't matter what's on my bike. I wasn't going to win this race.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree this is. We can come up with a couple more, but this is the last one I have written down was what's? Your must have one piece of equipment. We're not talking price doesn't matter. What's? Your must have one piece of equipment. We're not talking price, doesn't matter. If, if somebody could say, just walk into a room, into a store, bike shop, and say I want, I need and or want this one piece of equipment, what would say is a is a must have.
Speaker 3:I'll meet him. Yeah, pal meter.
Speaker 2:What would you say? I mean, it depends on what the goal is. I guess, if the goal is to get stronger, I would agree with mark, because it's, I mean, training. We all, I think we all know training someone with heart rate or power, power is much easier to use, yeah, it's much more consistent. It's like that's the reason everybody uses it. Um, so, yeah, but if it's, yeah, it depends on what the goal is, because I, I feel, you know, being in a bike shop every day, that could be a lot of different things, you know, if they're an off-road rider, on-road rider, but yeah, I mean, one important piece of equipment would be that, um, good tires. Yeah, good tires are really important, kind of depending on what you're doing, I would agree the right tool for the job.
Speaker 1:Mark, do you still do strength training for people? I do. Okay, what's your one or two go-to exercises that every cyclist should do?
Speaker 3:Okay, I think you know one is the bird. I call it the bird dog. I mean something that's known as the bird dog or the quadruped, so basically you're on all fours, extend opposite arm and leg out slow back in. There's various versions of it, but I think for cyclists that is just a really good, easy core stability exercise. And then I think I mean some version of a squat, slash, leg press, um is is kind of critical, um, you know, and I, I am, I'm still, you know, I am still unclear in my own head about the performance benefits of strength training to a cyclist, um, and I mean, it's an eternal debate, it's been going on forever.
Speaker 3:But I do think there are benefits outside of performance for cyclists in particular because it's a non-weight-bearing activity. We know, for example, bone health is an issue with cyclists. For example, bone health is an issue with cyclists, um, you know, uh, masters cyclists, uh, you know female cyclists, um, and even you know juniors at least, developing that, that bone density as juniors while they're growing um. So there are, there are benefits for the person, um, outside of, necessarily, performance, and there may, you know, there's, there's papers out there that show performance benefits and then there's other papers that show you know, minimal, especially for road cyclists. I mean on the track for sure, uh, bmx for sure, um, but I think um for a, for a well-rounded training program. A cyclist should include some strength training, I agree.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not going to hurt you, right? In reality, everybody's like oh, I'm going to gain weight, I'm going to bulk up, blah blah, it's not going to happen, yeah it doesn't have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would even argue that you would get more. Just, with some stuff I've been doing recently, is you get more benefit of of working on your mobility?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Cycling kills your mobility yeah, it does, um, and your body just, I think, starts to close off in a sense where if you just do more mobility stuff, you don't have to go to the gym, you don't have to lift. I've lifted, I you know, in the last couple of years and I never have before, and I could notice massive improvements and just turning the pedals over. But still, I mean, if you're not, if you're not mobile and moving like you're supposed to, then lifting is probably not still not that good for you because you can't do it, right, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think just buying some TRX straps every cyclist should have some TRX straps at the house and just doing body weight. Worst case scenario you're just doing body weight, uh, range of motion stuff, like because that's gonna make your hips better, your shoulders better, your back better, your ankles better, like you're just gonna be a better human right exactly yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're back to being, uh, you know, and yeah, there's no doubt you spend. You're spending four hours on a bike in this one flex position. I mean definitely, over time, that creates postural. Your body just learns to be in that posture. So, extension movements, anything that straightens you out and hits that what they call a posterior chain. Um, to balance out all that that, uh, posterior.
Speaker 1:I have to have to break it down for this. Hey, I'm not alan. Uh, do you have any? Uh yard sale questions?
Speaker 2:I'm out um, I guess the only one I would have would be what? What's been your favorite bike? Oh man, and if you wish you still had it even if you didn't ride it. What's the favorite?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, you know it's so funny because every time I get a new bike it's like man, these are so sweet, you know. I mean there's no doubt. I mean I know there's, the old steel is real thing. And but I'll tell you, you know, you can't beat modern bikes. I mean they feel so good. And every time I get on a new one it's even better than the one that I thought was great before. But you know, same to me.
Speaker 3:I have my old Colnago that I, you know, raced on and it ended up cracking, the frame cracked, you know, and it I don't know where it is. I mean, I got, I tossed it, um, I was always gonna, you know, I was always gonna get it repaired one day and just have it for all time. And now, with, you know, with, um, um, toss it tough, bringing back the uh, the old, what's I can't remember what they call it now, but the ride was the old steel bikes and stuff. I'm like I wish I had that, you know. And that, yeah, it was tubular wheels. You know, I didn't know anything about clinches back then, so everything was so, up, it was probably eight speed speed down, tube shifter, it was beautiful. Yeah, that's my sentimental favorite, my old Colnago.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a good one. That's a good one, mark. Is there anything that you want to add as we close up here?
Speaker 3:No, I think this has been great. I've enjoyed it. Thanks. I mean, this has been a blast.
Speaker 1:I greatly appreciate you spending time with us this evening and sharing a little bit of your history and your story. Well, let's go with this before we close up. As far as getting a hold of you, are you taking clients? How do people get a hold of you? How do people follow you? Those kinds of things?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, those kinds of things, yeah, yeah, um, so, email coach c-o-a-c-h at teruki trainingcom it's t-e-r-u-k-i trainingcom. That's email. Um, I'm on instagram. Uh, I don't do a lot, I don't do a lot of social media stuff. It's that's almost a full-time job, though I need it, I need a person. But, um, I'm on facebook, I'm on instagram, uh, to rookie training. Um, but, yeah, email would be a good way. And uh, yeah, I'm taking, I'm taking clients on. I've just, uh, actually I've got an interview coming up tomorrow with person that uh just got into Unbound.
Speaker 2:Maybe you can try to talk him into Cyclocross instead.
Speaker 3:Maybe tell him the pros and cons there. Six hours, one hour.
Speaker 2:I think that's what you need to start talking all your gravel clients into being Cyclocrossers.
Speaker 1:Just get them back over. Nope, tell them, cross is dead.
Speaker 3:No, I won't tell him. That. I really. You know Rutson got spooked this last weekend and you know, every time we have that, you think back to when soccer cross was booming in this state and I would love to see it come back again. So maybe with Nationals at Fayetteville next year there's a resurgence here. It's just a couple of hours away, so that would be great if it had that effect. But I think you know soccer cross is a is a event that is, uh, I think it because of where it's placed, you know, on the grass, um and uh, short events, um, family oriented, I mean, I think it's got such good room for growth, um, and so you know, I mean there's really when you, if you were going to build a sport in cycling, cyclocross is the sport you would build.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's no reason that it's not off the charts because it brings in gravel riding, it brings in mountain biking, it brings in some group dynamics, you know, as far as racing like a crit ish sometimes, as far as racing like a crit-ish sometimes kind of, and, like you said, it's in one park and everybody can go and see the whole race and you get the heckling and the beer drinking and all the things. It's the perfect cycling sport. If people would just do it.
Speaker 3:But, don't tell him.
Speaker 2:I said that Well, you can start tomorrow with that client.
Speaker 1:Break their spirit. Would you like to cycle across for six hours or cycle across for one hour?
Speaker 2:Your choice. What if you could train a lot less?
Speaker 1:And dream bigger sooner. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's your selling point. Do you have anything you want to wrap up with?
Speaker 2:I'll let you know. I mean, thanks, thanks for coming on. I know you know how much I appreciate you and what you've done for me, my family, but just kind of as a whole the, the entire state. I mean I think a lot of people don't realize how impactful you are, maybe everyone you've worked with and things you've done. But, um, thank you for that and thanks for just giving so much when you don't need to.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's times where you just throw me a little program together and you won't let me pay you. So it's like and that's kind of what my coaching's turned into. I'm just like you know what? I'll just give you six weeks just to help you out and see what you think that's passed along onto me, because you've done it for me. Um, and sometimes people can't commit or don't want to commit or you know, don't know if they want coaching. So you're the type of coach that's not going to put someone in a contract and charge them 400 a month to see if they like it, and there's so much value in that for the growth of the sport.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks, chris, I appreciate those words, yeah, and I do. I mean, that's my whole thing is the continued growth of the sport and I think that's why part of my big push is with juniors, because they are the future, why, you know, part of my big push is with juniors because they are the future, um and so, um, but yeah, I think that's it's. It's a tough sport to stay in, um and so anything I can do that keeps people in it, um, you know, I like to do mark.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for you know, changing cycling in oklahoma we greatly appreciate and it wouldn't be what it is without people. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for changing cycling in Oklahoma.
Speaker 3:We greatly appreciate it and it wouldn't be what it is without people like you, so hopefully we'll meet face-to-face soon. Yeah, thanks, ron, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, thank you.
Speaker 3:I appreciate it.