Cycling Oklahoma
Cycling Oklahoma
Thunderbird Trails, New Era w/ Josh Jewell
We share the full story behind the Lake Thunderbird rebuild, from a million dollars in funding to permits, design choices, and the future of sustainable singletrack in Norman. Josh explains how a barber chair conversation became a blueprint for community-led trails that protect the lake and elevate rider experience.
• why T-Bird’s redesign matters for Norman’s cycling scene
• how funds unlocked a professional, sustainable build
• working with Bureau of Reclamation and State Parks
• straightening lines, adding drainage, saving Tabletop
• bridges, rock armoring and erosion control near the lake
• target mileage, likely direction and room for session lines
• volunteer stewardship and a new generation of trail crews
• fixing race fees and parking pain points with State Parks
• building a statewide playbook for trail funding and access
• inspiring partners to support future jump lines and hubs
Coldlahoma Endurance Series
https://www.webscorer.com/registerseries?seriesid=416898&fbclid=IwY2xjawPE4OdleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETEwb0U1ZldiRmpLVURnVktlc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHk0uRixF3Fv0g5nxJmkmpHDsckmjzTFncfGLZamw656i_GtRbrlFgynq1OZO_aem_5leC7-RtP5exvj01bVGumA
What is up, Cycling Oklahoma? Thank you so much for listening to another amazing episode. And I just want to say thank you for an incredible year. We had so many downloads, so many listens. We had more interactions as far as feedback from podcast episodes that we've had this past year in 2025. So thank you so much for that. You know, as long as you guys want to listen to me and my friends and people I don't know ramble about cycling in Oklahoma, then we'll keep doing this. So keep giving us feedback. Uh, keep letting me know some amazing guests that you guys want to hear from, and we'll do our best uh this next year to keep giving you good content. So this episode is one I think that a lot of people are gonna want to hear and have been waiting for. And this is the updates on T-Bird Trail System. So this is a fascinating conversation of how all the new updates and the new trail system is come about, um, how it's being funded, the money, where it's coming from, uh, who's doing it, all those kinds of things. So, this is gonna be everything you want to know about the new T-Bird trails here in Norman, Oklahoma at Lake Thunderbird. And I hope you enjoy this. Hopefully, we'll have more uh cool episodes like this coming about some really cool updates on trails and stuff like that. So this year is gonna be fascinating when it comes to our racing and the events that we have. We have a phenomenal endurance series coming up and that's gonna be going around the state called Cold Lahoma, and it hits Skip, which is in Oklahoma City, uh, McMurtry, which is in Stillwater, and then it ends at Arcadia, which is in Edmond, Oklahoma. Uh, hopefully the entire state will come out to this. There's gonna be three-hour, six-hour events, uh, team events, kind of come do what you want, and there will be overall series winners for this as well. So please check in uh to Cold Lahoma. You can find it on the G3 uh Instagram. I'll put a link in this podcast as well, but you can find it all over if you just go look. It's going to be a super fun grassroots event. We have a phenomenal race schedule coming up in the spring with a great, great, great series hitting everywhere in the state. It's actually a true Oklahoma mountain bike series. It's not just a central Oklahoma series or just a Tulsa series. It's a true statewide series. Gets done in the spring. You can train for it, you can focus on it, you can peek for it. It ends with a one-day state championship that's gonna be at Arcadia at the end of May. Please check it out. I'll put links in everything as this stuff continues to unfold where you can sign up. It kicks off the first of March, goes through the end of May. Uh, short and sweet, six races. It's gonna be absolutely phenomenal. So hopefully you enjoy it and uh we'll keep you updated on all fresh and exciting things in cycling in Oklahoma. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode, and uh, we'll see you guys out there. All right, Josh. This one is has a lot of self-interest because like I want to hear all the scoop for myself, but clearly we have uh hundreds of other people that want to hear what you have to say as well. Um, so I think there's gonna be a lot of people really excited about this one for a lot of reasons. So, first off, let's jump in and introduce yourself and then uh let's hit learn a little bit about you and then figure out why we're here. Hi, um, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01:I'm super excited to get all the all the words out about the trail sound Thunderbird. I'm Josh Shuell. I'm from Norman, Oklahoma. Um 48 years old. I like bikes. I like trickles. It's this is kind of like your dating profile.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and go. It's exactly right. Um, yeah, that's um I worked out in Norman. I've worked down there uh my little barber shop for over 27 years. Oh, nice. And uh yeah, but just where's your shop at in Norman? It's in downtown. Oh Norman, I've been down there uh my whole time. I used to have uh a bigger barber shop and have a smaller barbershop, so it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:Anybody in Norman that needs to get their hair hair done? Guys only?
SPEAKER_01:I just yeah, just get guys' hair.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, nice. You have to do the beards and all the things. All the things. How is that so the beard like resurgent has to be good for barbers then, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's good. I mean it's it's an upside-down haircut when you never thought about that one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're just putting triangles on top of a sphere or on the bottom. How often do guys guys that have really manicured beards, how often do they come in and get that done?
SPEAKER_01:Same as a haircut, about every two to four weeks. Okay, it's a full-time job for those guys. No kidding.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because sometimes I see a beard and I'm like, man, that's like the most perfect fade. It looks so clean and so much work. And I'm like, yeah, that is not. I have a beard because I don't want to shave. I'm I'm the same. Yeah, it's not because I'm like, oh, this is trendy and nice. It's like, no, it's because I'm lazy and worthless. That's why I grow facial hair. Some guys are so lazy they get all the way down to their belly. Yeah, that's a true story. That's true. Um, so I I think what uh we I want to learn a little bit more about your cycling because we I don't we've never met, um, and we're spent time together talking about any of this stuff. So um, how did you get into riding bikes? Did you grow up riding bikes or come into it later in life?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I grew up riding bikes uh just as a kid out in the country. And uh for a bit when I was a teenager when I could drive, uh, I rode uh started racing BMX up at Sooner Pearl. So uh got to meet yeah, I mean, a ton of great people up there as a as a you know a kid just wondering what the heck with some bike racing uh for a short time. So you know, I got to meet like Charlie Long up there. He was super cool when I was like we were both young, obviously. Yeah, but he was like, man, keep coming back and racing with a that sounds like Charles. Had the cardboard lords thing going. So uh that was I started to cycling uh competitive, and then uh I joined the army, went away uh for a bit, came back and started work. And it's like man, this mountain bike stuff looks kind of cool. So I went riding with a buddy, and uh it was funny we were out riding, he's like, Well, you can handle that bike pretty good. And and we're out in the middle of Thunderbird, and I'm winded, and he's like, Dude, you'd be a lot better on that bike if you'd lose 20 pounds. And I was like, you know what, man?
SPEAKER_02:F F pop.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he wasn't wrong, so I started I kept showing up and riding bikes, and uh at the time I was like 240 pounds. Oh, wow, really? And how much do you weigh now? Uh, we don't want to talk about that. Like 180, 180.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, because you're nowhere near 240 pounds.
SPEAKER_01:And uh, I just kept riding bikes, and that that uh, you know, there's a good crew down in in Norman. So uh just going to the bike shop, and a lot of the guys down there would be like, yeah, come right on road with us. So I ended up getting a road bike and uh I would just go out by myself. In fact, I uh I showed up once to a BLN ride on a Tuesday. Everyone's like, it's really good, just get in the slow group. So I did, and I got dropped by the slow group. And one guy, Phil Trotter, would not he would he would let he kept leaving the group and falling back for me to keep pulling me back. I'm like, man, just go. I know where I'm at. And uh so finally he left me. He's like, Man, are you sure? And he was so kind about it and really cool. So they rode off. I turned around and went home, and on the whole way home, I was like, I'm never getting dropped by that old man. And then he's one of the strongest dudes around.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but uh cycling will humble you so fast. Oh my gosh. Well, when you think, especially when you don't know anybody, when you think, you're like, I'm feeling like I'm pretty decent shape. Yeah, and then some old person drops you, or some guy that weighs like 50 pounds more than you drops you up a climb, you're like, huh. I'm missing something here. Yeah, okay, good to know. Yeah, it's a good, humbling reality.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, we I just rode more about myself, came back, kept showing up and meeting more more of the folks and just getting more and more involved, uh, with group rise and hanging out. And uh got invited once like the old Mathis Brothers guys invited me out uh on a real long ride. So I was able to hang in, and then of course, you know, Steven and Jason and uh Waddell and those guys were all super cool, like keep coming and you just kind of started racing bikes. And you yeah, I think we all know how that goes. You get obsessive or addicted or whatever. Yeah, same thing. Yeah. Um, so had some small success there, you know.
SPEAKER_00:And were you racing like road, crit, mountain bike? Where what were you doing?
SPEAKER_01:More mountain bikes, tour to dirt stuff. And I would I would head out in Texas here and there and just get my butt kicked, and over to Arkansas before it got it blew up. Right. Uh and just go get your butt kicked over there. Uh, but just had fun racing, just enjoying the the days of racing.
SPEAKER_00:So you've been around the game for quite a while then.
SPEAKER_01:A little bit, yeah. Uh I can't remember the years, but I mean, gosh, it was early 2000s, I'm sure. Yeah. And then I started I tried some crit racing and I just couldn't trust anybody at the 4-5 level enough.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's the scariest level.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man. So that's the worst. Yeah, it was so bad. Uh, or just intimidating for me. And again, like uh just guys, cool guys, Charlie Wong. Again, one of the others, like, just get in there and ride. Like, I can't, man, I can't turn my head off.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I get it.
SPEAKER_01:Or what L be like, just go, you know, um, yeah, just tell me to go. But uh, then I found Cyclocross and really fell in love with that because it is it's like a perfect mix. I think it's the hardest.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's the most gut-wrenching for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Your brain takes a beating the whole time, and yeah, uh the guys are super fun to write to race with, and and uh yeah, your heart rate doesn't come down to you just either want to die or you finish the race.
SPEAKER_00:That's pretty much it. Cross is like it. I mean, it's like the most beautiful self-punishment in the moment you sound it's fun when you're at the starting line. First laparti, you're like, oh my god, this is so funny, you have so much adrenaline, and then that middle, like it's not even the next 80% of the race is just you trying not to quit. Yeah, pretty much and hating yourself for doing this, but you have so much embarrassment if you quit because you know that somebody's in this one part of the rec the watching, yeah, and you have to go buy them and you know how much crap they're gonna give you if you like got past or you quit. Oh, yeah, it's gonna be bad. And then 10 minutes later, when it's over with, you're like, God, it was so fun. Oh, we had the next good time.
SPEAKER_01:We're gonna race a next. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Most of your day was spent telling yourself how stupid you are and how much you hate what you're doing, and then you've had the most fun ever when it's over with.
SPEAKER_01:I think, yeah, you summed it up perfectly. That's exactly the way it went for me. Yeah, me too. That's why I haven't done it in a while. Yeah, I'm over that. Yeah. Well, in fact, I'm not over it. I would love to race it across again, only I don't want to put in the training.
SPEAKER_00:You just gotta be ready for it. Yeah, for sure. I'd want to race. The good thing is they're usually shorter, but that just means they hurt more.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, and the masters guys are still good. Yeah, they're still training and stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Because they're like X like super good dudes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not there anymore. I'll just go cheer them on. Now I'm just old with never not enough as much talent as them, and they're old with like a whole bunch of talent.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so it is it's still not the same. No. We're not playing the same sport.
SPEAKER_01:I go cherry one.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. That's way more fun.
SPEAKER_01:I did find so I quit I actually quit riding for a little bit, just raising a kid and doing all the stuff you do in your life. Uh, I did find Enduro mountain biking. Oh. Which we can't really do it right here. It's pretty good. Yeah, I was gonna say, where did you how'd you get into that? Uh I mean Facebook, you know, but the Southern Enduro Southern Enduro Tour uh has a fall, winter thing that they do. Texas? They're Arkansas. Arkansas. Uh but they do some races in Texas, Arkansas. And uh so it's super cool. It's the best part about mountain biking. You're only racing downhill. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:So you better it's for the BMX side of you, it's probably amazing.
SPEAKER_01:It's yeah, it's BMX downhill.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Basically on a mountain bike. Yeah, you gotta know how to handle your bike.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you only hit the cool parts. So yeah. But then and the neat thing about it is you know that's so when you start, they say, okay, race starts at nine, you need to be in by two, and everybody has a chip timer. And you go to each section, which is all marked. So you get to section one, you wait in line for your turn to go, you go as fast as you can down that section, you're timed, and then you have to get to section two, which is back up the hill. Um, and you ride, you can ride 40 miles that day. So you get your mileage in, but you're racing, you're only going hard on the fun parts. So, because getting back up, you just take however much time you want.
SPEAKER_00:You can, yeah. Some guys just walk their bike. I was gonna say, do you do you have how do you do your gearing? Because it needs to be easy enough that when you get it to go back up the hill, you're not using any effort or a minimal amount of effort.
SPEAKER_01:Minimal, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But you need a big enough gear that you can pedal on the on the flatter spots of the trail.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I use just my same gearing that I have all the time. Gotcha. And you've also got to take all your food and a rain jacket if it's gonna rain and tools and tubes. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00:You're self-sufficient. So how man, because I've watched some of Enduro stuff. Do you do you have an Enduro bike or do you have a downhill bike?
SPEAKER_01:I have a no, I don't I have an enduro-ish bike.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, gotcha. Was it like a 130 travel? Yeah, it's a 140. 140. Okay, yeah. So it's a it's a bigger bike. It's a bigger one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I found that is super fun. You don't have to be overly fit, or not overly fit, but you don't have to be you know in the best shape. Right. But you need to you need to drive a bike really well. Yeah. And uh those are the parts, so technical, the technical skills are the parts that we have.
SPEAKER_00:BMX side of you's gotta just be in heaven.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then I actually I so I raced BMX last year and got my nephew hooked on it. So uh that was fun. Like we raced the State Series and that's fun.
SPEAKER_00:He's still racing. I'm afraid I would get on some trails that would hurt me.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, on for Enduro stuff?
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. Nah, you'd be okay. You say that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's that's the thing, is like the the downhill, like, and then when you're going fast, like you don't have a choice.
SPEAKER_01:No, you just keep going. But again, you just you know, practice it slow and work on your techniques. So do you pre-ride the trails beforehand in those races? Some let you and some do not. Okay. Most of the times uh they let you uh pre-ride, so you but you you don't want to spend your whole day. Right. So you you know you kind of ask around, like, what's the hard part? What's the hard line or which one's the worst? And you kind of pre-ride what you think is gonna be the toughest. Gotcha. Uh you don't want to burn up interesting all your burn all your matches. And how often do you do those races? I did them a couple years ago. I'm actually I'm pretty I was actually talking to my wife uh the other day. I was like, you know, I'm kind of thinking about doing that again. So yeah, we'll see how it goes.
SPEAKER_00:Have you been to Tulsa yet to see the new jump lines?
SPEAKER_01:I haven't been to the new rockyard. I went the other.
SPEAKER_00:How is it? I ain't doing it. I can't tell you that. I rode up there and it is it's first off, it's insane that that's in Tulsa. It's so cool. It's insane.
SPEAKER_01:It's so cool.
SPEAKER_00:Uh Dave Weaver, who has a big part in cycling uh mountain biking and cycling up there, um, and is in charge of Nica um for the state, he took me out there and showed it to me. It he said they spent five months stacking the rocks. Wow. Just for the like basically the grand entrance that you start on. It took five months of stacking rocks. That's how big it is. It is so cool. When I say big, dude, it is. The day I was there, the wind was blowing, I don't know, 15-ish.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And some two of the lines were closed for because of how big the jumps were. Sure. And the wind was only blowing like 15. So it's not, I mean, they are large jumps. So you're you're the kid inside of you needs to go do this place.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but the old man that I live in is like, I don't know, man.
SPEAKER_00:I can't yeah, that a broken something that has bad consequences.
SPEAKER_01:But I gotta work on my hands. That's right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You need to go up there. If you they have options, right? Yeah, but uh it's it's fantastic what they did up there.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's so cool for the sport. You know, for now, just like you know, Arkansas blew up and all those good trails. Man, those kids that grew up riding that stuff are so much better than we ever thought of. So the the sport's just gonna get that's exactly what I told them.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. I said 10 years from now, some of the kids that are coming out of here, some of the 20-year-olds that are gonna be in cycling in Oklahoma, their skill set is gonna be insane. Yeah. Because they're not gonna know any different.
SPEAKER_01:No, not at all. No one's gonna be able to ride Red Bull Hardline.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's crazy. Yeah, it's it's impressive up there. So if you as soon as you get a chance, you need to go up there and see it. Oh man, I can't wait. Yeah, it's really cool. Um, well, let's fast forward into why we're here a little bit and your involvement in cycling in Norman. So what how did how did you get to the point that you're so involved in now really reshaping uh mountain biking in in our state and and definitely reshaping mountain biking in central part of the state? Um, I think this is a massive first step for our sport and hopefully a huge thing of of great uh adventures to come.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I hope so. Um really kind of happened like a lot of things, just right behind my barber chair. Um we were talking about uh I was talking with uh the head of Norman uh Visit Norman, Dan Shem, and he was uh you were talking about mountain bike trails and how they were enjoying it, and uh a few haircuts down the road, you know, we were talking about uh like man, what can we do to improve the trails? And he he really took an interest on that and and started diving in. Um but kind of you know, we're we're this was but we're all kind of coming out of COVID at this time. So uh it's it's been a long time, like this has been a really long progress or a long road. So um, yeah, he just took an interest. Like, man, I don't know what we can do about that. So I've been going riding back to riding out at Thunderbird with the the guys uh with Team Warm-Up. They've been taking care of that place for 10 years. It was immaculate. Yeah. Thank goodness for Team Warm Up. Oh my gosh. Uh yeah, Randy and the guys, like they That dude, Randy. He just loves weed eating. So he'll just honestly, he would go out there on his way home from work with his weed ear in his truck and be like, I'm weed eating, and that's just what he likes to do.
SPEAKER_00:And I mean, we're I've tried to get Randy on this podcast numerous times. Oh, he won't do it, I'll bet. He's like, Oh yeah, yeah. And then of course not. That dude has got some wild stories. Oh, yeah. Wild stories. He does. Randy is a man, if people don't know Randy, you need to know Randy. Darn right. For a lot of reasons. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And uh, so you know, they've been taking such good care of the trail, but it and it's you could sort of see like the end of like Bicycle League of Norman started that trail. So John Resmeyer, you know, got us the land access, and and uh we're so thankful for him uh for getting that and just the first 18 miles of trails that were that were permitted to be out there, and then you know, so we got to go out and help build those trails long ago, and then you could just kind of see those dudes get as they got older, they got burned out. Yeah, that's a lot of work, it's so much work. And so we were lucky team warm up kicked out or kicked in, and man, they've got a shed full of tools and all the stuff to do this. And you kind of see like they're getting pretty tired, and and that I was I was I didn't say much about it, but like, man, you guys are getting tired. Like, who's gonna do this next? Yeah, and that's kind of a scary option. And then you know, kind of hear again behind my barber chair, like, why does the trail go this way and not that way? And why do we do this? And then all this stuff. So it's just this kind of like, like, man, what do we do? And so Dan Schim, like, is kind of hearing all this too, and he gets us all together and it's like, what can we do? If money wasn't an object, guys, what what will we do? And um, you know, kind of just like we need more dirt or we need more material, or just we need help, we need it more sustainable. And that was kind of the thing that stood out. Like, how do we make this more sustainable and less work for everybody? Um, and so we kind of that's where it started. Like, what do we do and how do we do this? So money. I mean, that's yeah, that's where you come in. Um, and so you know, Visit Norman, they're all about like how do we get tourists into Norman to come in and hang out and do fun things and buy a hotel room and buy food. Uh so they got I mean, he Dan got really excited about it, and um he he was going to these community events and Cleveland County and the county commissioners had uh ARPA money, so old COVID money that they had to spend. And so basically there was a million dollars that needed to be spent on a community project that coming out of COVID. So uh we were able to get that to go toward our trails. That's amazing. Uh yeah, and it's just so it was so good that that Dan loves mountain biking, Dan talked to me, Dan talked to Team Warm Up, uh, you know, kinda understood the problem and then knew where to find the money. Right. Um And so that's kind of how it started right there. And that was three-ish years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Um is whenever that all kind of came down, so when the ball started rolling about four years ago. It's a long process. It has been. And so it was funny, Dan was like, I was like, yeah, man, all right, you got some money, and we got like we kind of know what we need to do. And he's like, just wait, this is gonna take a few years. Like, oh, you've got to be wrong. He's like, I'm not wrong.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is the way things work. Yeah. So from there, um it's interesting. So the money came from a a COVID fund of money.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it's called ARPO, which is an acronym for like American Relief PA.
SPEAKER_00:Because I that's what I asked Tulsa how how do they where's all this money coming from? Some of it's coming from foundations, but they said the um the latest chunk that they got was from T Set. Oh, wow. There you go. Yeah. So I know so many random programs that we could fund for amazing projects like this.
SPEAKER_01:And like the more you know, right? Yeah. Like if we had we got lucky and and had visit Norman in these meetings. I mean, they go to all the community meetings at Norman. So having someone in at the table at all the things, just knowing, hey, there's this thing sitting here, and if we meet these requirements, it could work for this project. Um so so that that's super important. We're learning. Um, once we kind of got a plan on this, we had to meet with well, I I actually just went over to Arkansas. I called uh the Trailblazers over there. I was like, How do you guys do this?
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:We don't know what to do in Oklahoma. What do you guys do? And they were so welcoming. They're like, come over and ride with us one day and we'll talk about it and we'll show you. And so we rode.
SPEAKER_00:Uh what a great sales pitch.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. And it was uh, I mean, yeah, one of the guys, Gary Vernon, who's been over here to talk uh to the to the mountain biking crews. Um, you know, he was in he was at the beginning of all this, and him and some of the other trailblazer people who work at Trailblazers, we all just went and rode. And he's like, Man, look, this is how we've raised the money, this is what we do, this is how we work it. And the, you know, the guys that that run the machines um were like, yeah, this is how we build the trail and why. Uh and they were they were super welcoming. We spent half a day just one. Super teaching me. And they were like, and I still call, like, they're they're an open book, and anything we can help with, just just tell us. Yeah. Um, so that's been a great resource. And then just learning about funding and ways to do that through them and bringing that back here, um, which has been an eye-opening.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but it's yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So we started there, then we had to start, we had to get uh permission from the lake. Yeah. That was that's the part that took the longest.
SPEAKER_00:I was gonna say that seems to be the the thorn over all the years.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So so there was a disconnect there. We didn't, you know, the guys from Team Warm-Up are at work, and they were just like, Yeah, we mow the we mow the trails, and if we we need to move the trail, we just do it. Um and they just couldn't, you know, a lot of time they couldn't get in touch with anybody to ask if it was okay. So it was one of those, well, whatever, we're gonna do our thing. Is it the core of engineers? Is that who it is, or is it it's another group? It's a federal bureau of reclamations. Okay, they own the land. Okay. And the Oklahoma State Parks, they like lease the land and manage the land with the interest of the bureau in mine. Gotcha. And then and there's a lot, a lot of rules. It's a super thick book.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And they're super strict about it. Uh so we approached them and had a meeting. And the first thing this guy uh from the bureau was like, Hey man, you guys have really messed this place up. Um, we're gonna close it down. And I mean, that's how he started. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:That's a tough start to a meeting.
SPEAKER_01:Like, oh, really? He's like, Yeah, I was like, Well, I'll take this bullet and uh why? And so he explained why, you know, we we built too many trails and we have all these wooden structures that that are helping the trail, and he doesn't care about that. And I have rules, and this is the way it goes, and you guys haven't followed the rules.
SPEAKER_00:And how long has this guy been there?
SPEAKER_01:Forever.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so it's the same guy that's always been there, yeah, through all through all of this building and and making of the trails.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he uh he permitted the first, you know, it was him and his boss that permitted the first uh so he's been there since the beginning of all this, okay. Yeah, and he even asked, he's like, you know, you you guys knew when you started you were supposed to do this, and you're just explaining, like, man, there's a big disconnect. We didn't know who to talk to. And here's our email chain, and we tried to email you and there's no return. And I mean, it wasn't a mean conversation, it was just trying to like understand how we can work together. Yeah, and we walked away from it that way. We're like, well, look, man, we realize we messed up and we're sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um a lot of miscommunication going both directions, it sounds like for sure.
SPEAKER_01:And then you're talking to the him, you're talking to the federal government, they've got rules and procedures that they don't veer from it.
SPEAKER_00:And it may not make sense, it just is what it is sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it has been tough.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, gosh, I can't imagine.
SPEAKER_01:But we we explain, hey, we have this money, and yeah, the trails right now are some of the best trails that volunteers from Oklahoma can imagine, and we built them. Yeah. And now we're bringing in engineers and we want to do it the right way. That's kind of the that was the fix. So uh once once we got that understood, then it was just working through an entire process. I mean, it took two years to get through this process. Oh my gosh. Of finally getting a permit signed so the contractors can get to work.
SPEAKER_02:Jeez.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, a lot of a lot of dotted eyes, cross boxes checked, right, bars erased, and we keep keep jumping the bar.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and so yeah, has it been at any point that you just get into it? You're just like, you know what? How many times do we have to keep doing the same stuff or the same dance? And it got to get to did it ever get to a point where it was so frustrating you just like you guys were over it, or was it it's always continued to move forward since the beginning?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's just I just slow. It's just slow. So realizing it's not a for-profit business and they don't care. That was the first thing. Um, the second part, and you know, the state has something to do with this too. There's a a park manager out there, Susie Snyder, who's like, yeah, we want to build these trails, but I've also got these rules, guys. Come on. And uh, so she's been really helpful in helping navigate all this too, but it's just realizing that a lot of time an employee like that is they don't, if they don't make a change, then they don't have to, there's no repercussion. Like we'll just keep it the same. Right. So and that's not a bad thing on them. It's just the system they work in, and it's okay. So realizing when you when you give them an idea, you need to frame it in a way where they win. Yeah. And and you're just creating more work for them. Exactly. With no upside. Yeah. Yeah. I saw this like, and then we got to explain to them, look, we've we've raised the money, we're managing the project, we're just trying to do everything the right way so we don't get in trouble. And uh and once we can't.
SPEAKER_00:When you say we, what who is that?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so I'm I'm kind of the mountain biker. Okay. Again, I like bikes, so I'm that guy. Uh visit Norman is and then uh the Cleveland County Economic Development Coalition, they're the two groups that so they put money up front. Okay. Uh when they knew we had this million dollars that we could get, they put, I want to say it was like$35,000 up just to have a study done. Okay. To see what the trails could be, what were all the rules and restrictions and how this goes from here. Wow. So they put the the initial amount of money up. And uh so it's them and then also the Cleveland County commissioners, they they had the money pigeonholed for a project that would fit.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So that's the team.
SPEAKER_00:And then you're just kind of the the third party representative inside that that knows bikes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm the and because it's important that we keep the mountain bikers on board, you know, uh the guys at you know, Team Mormo is kind of like, man, we don't, you know, they're they're a little bitter. They're not not bitter, but it's like, hey, we can't do it our way.
SPEAKER_00:We don't you don't want to do all of our work and because they they I mean they built that system and they've maintained it for gosh, I I don't even know how many years at this point. Yeah. Maybe like 20 years they've been in there doing the groundwork.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And and the things changed. And the you know, the state parks like, hey, now that we know you're here, we want you to do it the right way, and this is our way. And and you can't do it unless you do it our way. Yeah. And it was kind of tough, like not just kind of, it was really tough.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there wasn't much of a partnership there. It was like do it our way. Yeah. Um and I don't know if many people that listen to this know team warm-up guys, they're that group of people is not a do it our way kind of group. They're a much more free-spirited. Let's drink some beers and you know, hang out in in the trees.
SPEAKER_01:Of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And they, I mean, um a true mountain boot mountain biking group of people. Yeah, grassroots style. A hundred percent, yeah. Um, so they just kept butting heads, I would assume.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it was and so I just try to step in the middle of that. Like, hey, let's let's do it their way, and that way we can keep our trail going when until we get it rebuilt, and and that and that worked okay. Um so it's just a lot of change, no one likes change.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. So believe me, I know that.
SPEAKER_01:But uh, but I never really got frustrated because it was one of those, like, hey, I I put my neck out here and asked asked my mountain biking friends, like, hey, what do you guys think? Should we do this? And I was like, Yeah, let's do it. And then stuck my neck out, like, with uh, you know, partners at Visit Norman, like, hey, I think this is a good project that fits. Um so it was one is more like not getting frustrated. It's like, hey, we've stuck our neck out, or I've stuck my neck out too. We have to make this happen because it's important. We don't want to lose our trail, number one. Yeah. Um, it is such an important part of the community. And uh and we and we all love it for different reasons, and everyone's putting so much like just sweat and and blood out there making it happen. So never wanted it to to stop because it's like, man, we this can't this can't end here. Right.
SPEAKER_00:I don't want to be the reason it and you don't want communication to be the reason that it goes away.
SPEAKER_01:No. I mean, yeah. Um so yeah, we just kind of kept pushing and kept kept going. And and um, yeah, the our community partners are awesome too. So they just step in, you know, if if I if I couldn't make a meeting or do something, then of course they're like, man, we're there, we got it. So it's it's been a really good team effort.
SPEAKER_00:That seems to be the huge piece of any of this stuff getting done. Learning more about the Tulsa group that's you know making all that stuff happen up there, and then you know, learning about this, having that community piece behind you is everything.
SPEAKER_01:I it's I think it is. Yeah, it's and it's a part that we never knew about before because we're all just nerds riding our bikes in the woods. Right. Uh and picking ticks off at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's some I would have never thought unless, again, you know, a longtime customer is like, hey, what can we do? Um, and how can we, how can we help? And then yeah, seeing the stuff going on Turkey Mountain, meeting the guys in Northwest Arkansas that, you know, they formed a whole organization of that we're gonna fund mountain biking because we want a great place to ride. Um, yeah, I think community having community partners is it's huge and it's gonna be essential, I think, moving forward. I think so too. Building more trails in our state.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. Yeah, yeah. And it's it's kind of I think Northwest Arkansas has laid out the blueprint. Clearly, that piece of the world is different than any other piece of the world for a variety of reasons. True. But I think Tulsa has proven that it can be done um outside of Northwest Arkansas with foundations, with government programs, but the city, the city buying in and backing it and giving land and you know, having foundations buy. I mean, we rode one piece of land or up there because I got to go ride it, and they took me from one place to another. And he was like, Yeah, a foundation bought this 96 acres and then gifted it back to us so we could connect the two parks together. That was like amazing. This is insane. This is incredible. I'm like, why would they do that? He's like, Because they want to see this screw, because they just want to see Tulsa get better.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm like, That's so good.
SPEAKER_00:So good. But I'm like, you know, you just need people to buy groups to buy in, but you need it, but and I'm like, oh man, if Oklahoma City would get just get some momentum. But I that's why I'm so excited about this because I think Turk, I mean, I think Thunderbird could be like that first ball to drop to get Oklahoma City thinking in a different way.
SPEAKER_01:I hope so. Um, and it's so this is a different area because it's a state park. Yeah. So um it's not city funded or anything like that. And the state, so even through this process, I've met with tons of state leaders. Uh, they've been really kind to to meet with me for one, like me, Matt Pennell, and um all the way down to the the state park manager, but uh Sterling Shepherd's the new director of of our state parks. And and uh they've all been so nice to meet with us. And I mean, of course we're bringing a million dollars. Yeah, yeah. At the same time, but then they can see what state parks pretty sure it could be look like. Right. And they and they see that there's such interest, and they you know, these people don't. I mean, Matt Pinnell knows about cycling, he's into it and sees all the things going on in Tulsa because that's where he's from. Um, but you know, the uh some other folks with the state parks department, they're like, Oh yeah, there's some trails. And you know, I showed him so I I brought my bike with me and and showed him like, man, this is a pretty cool bike. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I'm like, it costs a lot of money. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of money in this sport. About how much. And I kind of talked to him about that and all the gear that goes with it. Right. And my bike rack. And I mean, we have an RV and and all this stuff. So it's like, this is this is cycling. Yeah. Not all of it, but this, you know, from from people riding just any bike they get to people racing super competitive, like that's cycling, and that's what we want.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. The economic impact, I don't think cities or towns and cities and states have a concept. They're, I think they're starting to kind of pay attention. And Norman, I think, is on the forefront of this in central Oklahoma with having the Maverick crits last year, and they're backing it again this year, doing this. I think that is like kind of that first domino to fall in this part of the state. Because I think the domino fell for Northwest Arkansas with Tulsa, and that's why they're doing what they're doing because they want people to stay in Tulsa and not go up there. And hopefully what Oklahoma City will see what Tulsa's doing, and this can be the first domino that drops here because there's a lot of economic impact that goes with this.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's huge. And then, you know, and when you when you dig into it, I mean you can search the stuff online, but you know, the the Trailblazers are even, I don't think it's the Walton Foundation, but there's a there's economic reports out there of the benefits that you know from 2017 on of how much money tourism has brought into Bentonville just from trails. And uh they you know they even do it with their golf courses and yeah and stuff. So so we you know, all of our community leaders do see that stuff. Good. And they're actually it's neat to watch their the light bulb come onto them to see we don't have that in Oklahoma, like we don't have that mountain, we don't have that that perfect landscape, but we can build something that's amazing. And and you know, I think we can turn it our trail, at least for trails, we can make it more than just a pass-through. Because if you go to Colorado to Arkansas, you gotta come through here, right? And why not stop at Thunderbird and camp out and hit our trail and and do the cool stuff? That's exactly right. Uh so they and that's kind of the pitch to them. It's like, man, let's get them to stop. And or let's make some cool stuff so basically I can ride it come selfish.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. And we have so many people in Oklahoma that ride bikes that don't have that, you know. I mean, even Elk Elk City has a trail, you know. Yeah, Purcell now has a trail. Like these smaller towns outside of the big metros have trails and or are developing trails. And if you give maybe that's where they start, and you know, at some point you get tired of riding the exact same trail over and over and over again. Yep. So you want to take a day trip or you want to take a weekend trip, you know, or the kids play, you know, sports and you come through town. Um, so there's lots of reasons to bring them, you know, into town to ride these trails in the metro area, which is absolutely which is I think how people need to see it. And hopefully they start understanding that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it and I think it, I think they are. Um, and they're they're they're really keen to to doing it. Um, it's just how do we fund it? Right. How do we get access? Uh those are those are the two bigger issues, and I think we're starting to tackle those.
SPEAKER_00:Whenever we're gonna get into some of the nuts and bolts of the of the trail system, because I know there's lots of questions people want to hear answers to, but now that you've gone through this process, are you gonna be a one and done? Or do you think this is something that like, man, this is maybe I can help either be a consultant and a helper to people that want to do this in their community? Uh, or you know, in Oklahoma City, has this developed somewhere else, you know, or is it like, no, this was enough.
SPEAKER_01:I'm uh I will I'll help anybody.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I'm always happy to do that. I guess I did kind of put you on the spot with that, but you're good.
SPEAKER_01:No, you're fine. Uh I would be happy to help anybody. I'm I'm gonna see this project through for sure. Yeah. Um it has warmed me down a bit. It's been, you know, it's not all my work, but it's a lot. Yeah. But um I think I think what needs to happen, especially so for state parks, I think it would be cool to see an organization come up. It could be Oklahoma Mountain Biking Association if they had the bandwidth. But I think we need to see someone who is more in that, who can be more in that role of like sit at a legislative table or sit at the table with Loves, Sonic, uh, Bank of Oklahoma, anybody that so we could raise money for our trails at state parks, or we could where's the money in the state, uh at the state legislature for state parks? How can we allocate more money for uh for parks? How can we get more access at our other state parks? Uh I would love to see something start that that grows into that. Uh I think that needs to be, you know, someone would need to be paid money for that. Um, so I don't know how that gets going. But we have a lot of super smart cyclists. We have a lot of uh very uh people are very involved in different ways. So it'd be really cool to see something uh start. I mean, I'm actually, I mean, I'd like to get that started. I love that. But uh that's that's how I see it going. But I don't want to be, I'm not that person. Uh yeah, you know, again, I got to go talk to uh Mr. Pennell at the State Capitol. Hey man, I got this cool idea. He's like, I love your idea, I'll help support it. Um, but that's as far as I want to go with that. Right. I'm not that good at at the other stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. Gotcha. Yeah, it's uh I mean, the the whole thing of this of the podcast, you know, it started completely different. It started as a marketing tool for my business, and that's the only reason I started it. Nice. And then I was like, okay, well, then I sold the business, and then I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore because I don't have a reason to. And then people would say, like, oh, I missed hearing people's stories. So we kept it going. But the whole point of the cycling Oklahoma has evolved into how do we make Oklahoma cycling better? Like, yes, and talking to people like you and sharing this and that vision that you have and what you think it could be is exactly because that's exactly right. Our the cycling community in Oklahoma has so many deep financial possible leaders in it that could help support things.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And not only they're with their own financial situations, but work for the companies or are in positions in certain companies that could change everything.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and we just need a way for all of those conversations to start and start coming together. And I think all I mean, I'm really excited about where this is going over the next five years for Oklahoma Science. I think we're like at the edge of things really starting to ramp up. I'm hopeful that that's the case.
SPEAKER_01:I'm the same. Yeah. It's kind of uh, yeah, we we've kind of pushed the boulder up to the edge and like let's kick it over and see what we can do. Uh, which is it's super exciting to see. I think I think people could kind of step into some leadership positions and really get everybody. Let's just say just talk about trails, you know, get everything on the same page. Like, this is how we build trails in our state. This is where the money goes and where it gets outlook how it gets allocated, and just have a standard operating procedure for this is how we're gonna do trails. Yeah. Be awesome. Arkansas, I mean, they've again they've just uh they're the they're the on the forefront of that.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. And we can learn so we can learn a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it may it's not gonna be Bentonville, but it can be better than what it is now.
SPEAKER_01:It could be Oklahoma. That's we need our own identity. That's it. You know, we don't we don't have huge downhills in central Oklahoma, but we could have some super cool short track and cross country stuff. Super cool stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, we just build with what we have. Because that's a whole nother skill set.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:Like that's a thing. Yeah. Because it's funny because uh just talking to the Tulsa guy the other day, we were riding along and I was like, this is the stuff that I'm as like because I had it's a lot more flowy and cleaner trail because it's professionally built now, right? So we wrote a bunch of the new stuff. And I'm like, this is the stuff that all the Tulsa people used to gripe about whenever they came to Oklahoma City and raced races. Sure. Because this they're like, this stuff sucks because we don't have this and or ride this. And I'm like, but Oklahoma City people never went to Tulsa because they're like, I don't want to ride the rocks because that stuff sucks and I don't want to do it. You know? I was like, so it's it's funny how people have their things that they like, but it's because that's the thing that they have to learn on and practice on. That's right. So um, like the the guys down, guys and gals down in Med Park, you go down there and ride up one of those nasty, chunky, rocky climbs, they will pick you apart. They will just bebop right up the thing, and you're gonna be shot when you get to the top of it. But if you come to Draper and go flying through the trees, they're gonna be like, what is wrong with you? Like this exactly, we we're not doing this.
SPEAKER_01:We hate sand. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:So everybody has their strengths and weaknesses, but it's so fun to see like how dynamic it can be here because it's not just about climbing mountains or having really technical rocks. It's right, it's a whole nother skill set.
SPEAKER_01:We could really, we could build anything we that we wanted to.
SPEAKER_00:We really could. I love it. Um, so going into this, you got your community partners that we've kind of talked about, like all the people that it took coming together. Once you guys kind of got the money earmarked, you got that done. What was the steps for going and laying out the trail and kind of getting like moving and getting that those first steps going forward? Like, was it more than just, hey, we're coming out to move dirt, like conservation efforts of the land of because I know there's probably a lot of I know I read some articles about the like the runoff into the lake, and there's some of those things. So, how is all of that play in for starting to move dirt?
SPEAKER_01:So uh it first started with uh we had we hired the uh rogue trails to come out and that we paid money for them to give us the first master plan. So Phil Penny with Rogue came out, super cool guy. He's engineering background, dude's like heart old, like kind of like us. Like we all start on 26-inch wheels with skinny bars. That's how he started riding bikes. So he came out to Thunderbird and was like, I get it. This is what the what it is, and um, but also going out there, he just saw like, okay, see this part of your trail, like this is why it did this because you guys built this on the wrong part of the hill, or you're overusing this hill, or you're overusing this area, and here's why. Oh, okay. Uh almost, I mean, I don't I can't say if it I'm sure because he has an engineer, an engineering background. I mean, it was a scientific style of of moving dirt. Right. But it's just new school and old school. Yeah. Yeah. And so he rode the whole trail with me and a couple other guys, and we were just showing him like, this is what we like, this is why we like it. Um, you know, here's tabletop, here's the rock drop, and we we don't want to lose these things. They're amazing, and they're they're why please tell me tabletop stays.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Um that makes me so happy. So those are the staples of Thunderbird. Yes. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:And uh so we just kind of would go through the whole trail, and they so he would put, you know, Mark Pins on his phone and and just took notes and listened and was really good about showing, okay, it needs to change, and here's why. So he did that, then he went back and has computer systems, and uh a few weeks later he comes back with a a rough draft of like, this is what it's gonna look like. Here's what you have, here's what we're gonna do. And you know, a lot of our trails in Oklahoma, I mean, I just speak for Thunderbird, I guess. Sometimes it just makes a lot of U-turns because we're like, that looks cool, it's right by that tree, that's right by that tree, and oh yeah, let's go down that dip. But let's get a mile in there. Uh so we kind of just zigzagged. And that's just what we did. So he just straightened out a lot of those zigzags. He's like, the reason we need to take that out is because you guys are killing the the ground and the soil's kind of sandy, it's a real sandy base, but there's some good stuff under there, and and we can't you can't keep beating it up. Okay. And uh or overusing it. And so he yeah, just showed that and I was like, kind of just straightened out a lot. Now, you know, the mileage is I mean, I think it's gonna be 10 or 12 miles when they finish it, but um even Phil Penny or Rogue Trail design was just like uh this is what it has to be for the area that you have available to you. So like, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Because they have a they have a legit um missing the word, um, like calculation for how many miles per acres.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, there's math.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and it was really cool because uh, you know, Phil when he came to talk to uh Jeff of the Bureau of Reclamate Reclamations, it was, you know, I'd introduce them and then let them talk shop. And it was seriously like, listen, I mean, it was just two science guys talking dirt. And it was a whole other language, and they're talking about pressures and all this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:But it was really amazing how much science goes into a riding in the dirt.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, but it was really cool because they could talk, you know, he's like, Yeah, this area of the trail, and he showed photos of it's running so much sediment into your lake, and so it's gotta change. And uh, you know, Phil really helped win over the bureau. Like, I was like, I'm a real you know, I'm a real engineering type of guy. I want this to work, and I want I want the job, obviously. And uh, so that really helped us. So after that, you know, we kind of had a rough draft of of where we wanted to go. So uh Phil came out again, and we just it was him and I with a a belt full of ribbon tape, like we were marking a cyclocross.
SPEAKER_00:The orange tapes. Yeah. Uh-huh. I've seen him out there in the trees for about a about two years now.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, yep. And so we walked the trail in the layout, and he had a GPS, and we he would just put a ribbon here, and he's like, Oh, go put one over there. And we would walk it, and then we'd ride something. And uh we did that for a couple days. Yeah. And uh he did a lot more than I did, but he I think he was out there for three days total. Wow. And marked it all and and got it all pinpointed, and then um went back. So we had to get um a bid put in because it's a uh job like that. And unfortunately, Rogue didn't win that bid. Uh Rock Solid did, which is is a good thing. Uh they're an awesome crew. So so basically what happened with them is they came back into that same process over again. Oh wow. And okay. So we had, which was cool because um, you know, Sebastian, I can't remember Sebastian's last name, but another, again, super like nerd dirt. Uh and his team came out and they're you know experienced mountain bikers, and they they you were riding down these lines, like, oh man, you can have a line over here and it would totally help. Uh so it was it was almost like repeating exactly what I heard the first time, only with new different ideas. Gotcha. And so they same process, they went back, gave us a rough draft, and it was pretty similar. And uh, so they've gone out now and flagged it. Okay, and uh got the permit, all the permitting done. And you know, um the first design with Rogue had a lot of wooden bridges and different things like that. Um, so that that was gonna take a lot of engineering design with the the bureau. Uh Rock Solid didn't put as many of those in there, but more built up with rocks and worms and some cool stuff that we're used to uh in the like the Northwest Arkansas area. But uh yeah, so that's the way it went. They they uh the ribbons all over the place and then they got the permit, and now they're actually out there like moving dirt. They started moving dirt uh in November? Yeah, first part of I want to say it was the first part of November, yeah. Okay, yeah. Um yeah, they've been out there working. So it's cool. The trail's closed, uh-huh, so we can't go out there.
SPEAKER_00:Uh we're all cheer. We're all cheering for a really dry spring. Oh my gosh, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Winter.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, we need dry spring and winter.
SPEAKER_01:Uh but it's a little hectic leading up to that with the permitting. Yeah. Um, you know, again, good thing we had our community partners uh that had our back because it was, you know, the bureau's like, hey, you don't have this eye cr I dotted. Yeah. Oh man, all right. Well, we're scheduled, you know, with the construction crew, so this has to happen. They're like, Yeah, we don't we don't care. Like we need it done the right way. So again, everyone was able to pitch in there and and get it, get it rolling. Man. So it's it was stressful like that last week.
SPEAKER_00:Seriously. So from the time the bid went out and the trailblazers got the bid to the time they started moving dirt, how long was that?
SPEAKER_01:Oh gosh, that was uh probably six months, wow guessing. Okay. But I mean just the two years leading up to that, yeah, meeting all the requirements. Jeez. Um, but yeah, it was it was good. But um, you know, and then and the trail builders who came out, both both guys, you know, when I talked to them, I was like, hey, should we bring out a lot of the guys that built the trail? Like, actually, if the guys were actually like super passionate about the trail, we we love them, but we don't coming out because we want to put our fresh ideas on this and we don't want to hear the sob story of we should keep this because yeah, I built it. Uh-huh. I'm like, what? And he's like, no, seriously, this is the only way it can work without basically making everybody mad.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I get that. Um those guys warm up has so much pride in that trail.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, and and I I mean, I did spend some time with like, what are the important things to you?
SPEAKER_00:Like yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Things and and ultimately, like those guys care and they listen, but they're like, Look, man, because of the landscape and the way you basically your four hills are out here and the triangle shape that you have, this is the way the trail has to go. Um we can manipulate a little bit here and there. Um but yeah, it just it that was a long time kind of getting there.
SPEAKER_00:What are some of the um some of the key features that are gonna stay? So tabletop's gonna stay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, tabletop's gonna stay. Um that makes me so happy. And that could so you know the way we go up tabletop always, you know, we've we've basically made a big ditch there. It wasn't always that way. Right. No, it wasn't that way. Right, like you know, it was only six inches deep. Yeah, now it's like a man deep. It really is. Yeah, it really is. So we did pitch the idea of like, what if we came from the other way and made it like three drops off of this? Off, you know, it's a it's just gonna stay a cross-country style trail. That's the type of train we have. Good. But what if we had some drops out there? And so maybe if it goes that way. Okay. I don't know the actual direction. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So will it be a multi-directional or a unidirectional trail or will it be run one way?
SPEAKER_01:Um it will be able to be ridden either way. I think, you know, whoever kind of takes over running, I think we need to discuss that. I'm pretty sure the state wants to run in one way just for safety. Okay. A lot of people rather their eyes down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So and it's gonna be roughly 10-ish miles, roughly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like 10 to 10 to 15. Okay. 15 would be high. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So somewhere in the middle. Don't crow me on that anyone, please. Right. Let's just say around 10. If you get anything more than that, it's a bonus. There we go. Okay. Um, is there any possibility of them building more trail if more funds come available? Or is the land kind of tapped at 10 mil 10 to 15 miles?
SPEAKER_01:There's some spots. So we talked about putting in some um like session lines or some Enduro jump lines. Okay. Maybe not enduro, but like some jump lines. And there's some areas for that in the center. So we'd have to bring in dirt and rocks. Uh funding is the issue there. Um, the Bureau saw that plan, they saw the jumps, and they're like, man, it looks super fun. Uh, luckily these guys are adventurous outdoor guys. Thank goodness, yeah. And uh it's funny, they're actually not even concerned about our safety. Love it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh that was my fear. It was like, uh we don't want you guys getting hurt out. Yes, an attorney seeing this and be like, absolutely not. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so yeah, they're they're cool with that. It money would be the thing. So again, if we had if we could raise money, um, so yeah, if anybody's at loves and they want to just build a trail hub and what's the jump line, we it could be the love line or something.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Let's make that happen somehow, some way.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so there's some some out there for that. As far as the rest of Lake Thunderbird, there's a ton of land around there. Uh the thing is there's a lot of indigenous, important indigenous sites out there. Oh, interesting. Okay. And we're not allowed to get close to those. Yeah. The other part is we don't know where they are as public because they don't want anyone out there. Messing with anything. Interesting. So if we do find an area of trail that we like, uh we think would be good, we would have to draw a plan and submit that and to see if we were close.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. See if you have the it's kind of a tricky.
SPEAKER_01:It would be really hard. Yeah. Okay. Um, but again, if someone had that as their you know, mission to do that, yeah. That it they can make that happen.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Um, but yeah, for the area that we have, you know, between South Damn Clear Bay, basically Highway 9 and the lake. Um, we're gonna for cross-country style trail, we're gonna be pretty close to tapped, and then there's some you know, straight line areas that we could build some jump lines. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:What's uh as far as timeline? We we just started, they started moving dirt in November. Um, what is I mean, I keep hearing springtime roughly, but that's so weather dependent in Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_01:Totally.
SPEAKER_00:Um, do they have a kind of a guesstimate of what they're thinking depending on weather?
SPEAKER_01:No, right, that's what Rock Solid is telling us screen. Spring time. So yeah, we tried to we're gonna try and get out there and see some progress here pretty soon and and uh you know put some pictures up so people can get excited. Um, and then get an idea like how's it looking? Like, are you behind, ahead? Like what does it look like? Because we're ready to get to riding.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they get tired of hearing that every time they do a project.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I'm sure. The cool thing about these construction crews, I mean, they're not, you know, they're not like old school knuckle dragon construction guys. These guys are mountain bikers who love running equipment. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:They're like, believe me, we want to ride too. Yeah. Yeah, we're trying to get it done so we can ride too. That's awesome. So what um what is okay? So we talked about there could be some potential downhill lines and stuff like that. Do is it going to be built where they have some structures built in? Do you know if that's gonna be the case?
SPEAKER_01:There's a couple of bridges that go across like creek type areas.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_01:Um, because and you know, because of the Bureau's right regulation, they don't want a lot of sand running unnecessarily riding off into that lake. So, you know, when we ride over an area, they say that causes a bunch of sand riding down, and then that we have to stay out of the creek areas. Okay. Um, so we'll have bridges over those. And and we mostly have those now, those old bridges that are about to fall in. Yeah. So we we mostly have those, and then some areas. So when we did go ride out there with rock solid, it was in June, and we had just had a ton of rain. And the trail was and and team warm up hadn't been allowed out there, and that was allowed, but no one was able to get out there, and it was raining, and uh it was it was a wreck out there with flooding. Yeah, but the trail was actually decent, so they got to see it at the highest I've ever seen it in in years. So they were like, okay, we definitely are gonna need a bridge here, yeah, and we'll need something here. So that's good. Doing some wood bridges, but they're also bringing out a lot of rock and dirt. Cool, do some more natural looking stuff. Great. Um, want to keep that that style. I mean, that's that's kind of who we are down there. It's just you know, uh, we need the machines to build the trails, but we are, I mean, it's a hand-cut trail. Uh skinny and happy to hear that and all that. So they're trying to keep as much of the style of the good as they can.
SPEAKER_00:Because that's the thing, is I go to Benville as much as I can. I'm gonna try to go in the next week or two uh because I haven't been out there this winter. It's so fun to ride out there, it's just so fun. Yeah, but also it's it's machine-built trails. It's it's a dirt sidewalk. It's a dirt sidewalk. Yeah, and so when you go out there, when you grew up riding trails like Thunderbird and some of that stuff, and even I happens to me when I go to Bluff now, I'm like, I'm the cranky old guy. I'm like, this isn't old Bluff, you know, this is like these roots have been packed in and all this kind of stuff, you know. And and back then I hated those roots because I couldn't ride them and couldn't clear them, but now I'm like, this is what made Bluff Bluff, and you know, the T bird having the big ruts and the you know, the roots and the rocks and stuff, that's what made it, you know. And so when I went to Turkey the other day, that was I know I keep going back to that, but we were riding and I was like, I mean, this is fantastic, but it's not Turkey, it's not the old like Ho Chi Min trail that we're gonna do. No, it wasn't you up. Yeah, it wasn't that John Cane's like, Oh, there's a trail over here that they built that's like that. And I'm like, so we get over there and I was like, this is not old Turkey. He's like, No, all this was man-made, machined, but they put the rocks in here to make it because they wanted a section like old turkey. Sure. And we wrote it, and we wrote up it, and it is like old turkey. And I'm like, they did this, they've made this. He's like, Yeah, this wasn't here. They put I'm like, Okay, that's super cool. That made me feel a little better that you they can still make it not a dirt sidewalk where it's fun and it's fast and it's flowy and it's so great, but it's not the tradition of the trail. So I'm glad to hear that they're doing that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and a lot of it too is you know, and so I say this all the time, especially mountain biking, motorcycle, whatever I'm riding, I love the sand. And everyone's gonna would push me over for that, like whatever. Sand's dumb, but I love it. Uh, especially in cyclocross races. Oh, yeah. But uh, you just it's it's kind of its own animal. But the sand there, if you think of it like water, it needs to go under the trail. You know, the the Bureau of Reclamations doesn't want us moving moving dirt out there. In fact, if we move dirt out there, we're gonna have to file a permit. Oh, wow. It's they're pretty strict. So you're just taking down trees, essentially. We can't even do that. Really? Now the construction crew can. Right. They have permits for all this, but right if we go out there, no, and there's no cutting. Do you we are actually allowed to um face slap, we can do face slappers, weeds, grass, and like the thorny, I call them wait a minute vines. They're yeah. Um those things are the devils. They are. We can get rid of that stuff, and if a tree falls over the trail, we're allowed to to remove that. Gotcha. Um, but we're not supposed to be moving dirt out there. Okay. And so that's kind of the way it goes. So we need that sand to go under under the trail or something. So that's what for a lot of the machinery, they're gonna be digging some ditches and making washes. Gotcha. So it's it is still sustainable, and we don't have to do a ton of work like we need to usually.
SPEAKER_00:So once it's built and done and they open it, ribbon cutting, we're ready to roll. Who takes care of it? Because team warm-up's out, I guess. I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_01:I hope we can like hug them and like come back.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. I say if a couple cases of beer, I think those guys could be and gals could be uh sweet talked.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, and I get it, you know, maybe they're tired too. Maybe for sure. I don't. And I know Randy's now took his weed whacker down to Purcell. Yeah, and he's he's whacking away down there because they're turning trail quickly.
SPEAKER_01:And uh, but there's a bunch of people in Norman uh that I talk to who are very excited. New mountain bikers, old mountain bikers, families, a lot of runners even are super interested in what's going on out there and want to get involved. They've had some great trail races out there. They really have. Um, and you have two running stores in Norman now, big running club. So it'd be cool to see those folks kind of get involved. But I think, you know, kind of like I said with the bicycle league with Norman, those guys are older, just don't want to go Weedy. Right. You know, Team Warm up took over for so long and and they did it for free. And and heck, all the races they did, you know, they just raised money for to buy a new lawnmower or eater. Um, so maybe they're just tired, but we need a new, like, you know, it needs like Ryan Drummond to call his buddies and go, hey, schedule a trail work day at Thunderbird. Right. Because we need that age group, yeah, getting interested because that was us back when we were starting to learn to ride and fall in love with the trails and and the areas that we have to ride. So hopefully we can we can kind of inspire that uh a new crew to come out and fall in love with it enough they want to take care of it. But yeah, we're gonna you know, kind of go old school with it and just be like, shell day, we're gonna have hot dogs.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, let's all come out. So there's gonna be kind of a trail like a trail boss person, but they're gonna use community resources to round people up to come out there. I think hopefully you have some staple groups that are involved, but yeah, it's definitely gonna be a community situation.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And then again, you know, uh if we can light a fire and get get an organization started, they would be they would be the head of that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And um we just don't have that in place yet.
SPEAKER_01:Not yet. Okay. But hopefully that can get started. Um, but yeah, just right now, just do the old school style of everyone come and love your trail. Okay. You love riding it. Like, let's love it. And then that'll help with you know, because the uh the state parks charge so when we have a race, they charge some money uh out there. It's like that's a it's a lot.
SPEAKER_00:That's a yeah, that's a thorn in everyone's side.
SPEAKER_01:It yes.
SPEAKER_00:That needs to be addressed. It needs to be it needs to be fixed in a in a better way.
SPEAKER_01:The way we've addressed it so far is if uh you know, say like um the team might team warm up. comes out there if we're gonna log the hours that we work out there. And so if you work out there, you know, 50 hours for the for the half year, then we'll just maybe maybe that'd be enough to get rid of that 30% cost on the food truck and the interfee and everything else. So um the the new director of the state parks is totally for that. He's like, let's figure it out.
SPEAKER_00:That's huge help because that is such a I mean I didn't have anything to do with any of the planning down there. I'd never you know I just listened to the racers um over the years down there. It's like man I got a ticket I didn't even know where I was supposed I didn't know what I was supposed to pay.
SPEAKER_01:So the parking's another thing yeah that's I mean I'm sure they raise a lot of money with that and and it's a good thing um you know all the new all the new bath the restrooms yeah out there and showers yeah that's from the parking right and they're they're great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah um they just need it to be significantly better displayed and they need it because people have because they have a sign that's like over in the corner that's like the size of a notebook.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And basically kind of we well we posted it but you can't see it unless you're looking for it and then you get a$30 ticket or whatever it was. And then when you have hundreds of people out there racing right it's a lot of money for the park and a lot of pissed off people because they're like well and you go up there and they're like oh well there's somebody parked in front of the sign. You know like yeah so they didn't even know but that would be something and it gets frustrating for I know this has nothing to do with you uh or the project that's going but it's so frustrating for an event and the racers when it's like we are bringing people a massive amount of people to your facility and now you're just pissing them all off. That's right which it's so it it's a it's a tough balance but you know that would be great that whoever's in charge is willing to talk ideas and thoughts because it would be great and I don't know how it works but you know if it's like well the race is just going to pay you a flat fee for this you know we're gonna say we're gonna probably have 150 races we're just gonna play if we can just pay you three dollars per person or five dollars per person with it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah it's nice to hear that they're willing to yeah he's ready to sit down and talk about it and get it figured out um and you know they'd even gosh they were you know the state parks this was last year with a different director was like man if we could get a series going at our state parks with like it was she uh it was the old director she was like it could be it didn't have to be just mountain bike it could be adventure races it could be whatever we want some cool stuff going on in our state parks like cool like help us yeah and she's all for it we're gonna let we're gonna talk after this but I think you have the right per you're talking to the right person here that nice is doing everything they can to make that happen.
SPEAKER_00:Okay so we're gonna continue that conversation post this podcast and let's see if we can make that happen. Heck yeah like that that could happen for sure.
SPEAKER_01:I think there's people here that that would love it.
SPEAKER_00:Yes 1000% and uh that is in the works with new things that are happening this year with our spring series that we're gonna do um and we're gonna rotate these races around to different venues we're gonna have a couple staples and the rest of them are going to rotate around and that would be fantastic and we can make that situation happen for sure.
SPEAKER_01:So okay yeah they're on board and so it's just yeah it's it's good to kind of start being the connecting tissue for all that. Exactly and you know but the out the we I think everyone's ready to to to get it working. Yeah and that's that's the cool part is it's it's like it's coming together.
SPEAKER_00:That's the key that's the key. It's finally people are just talking to each other. Yes. Instead of everybody doing everything independently and we have amazing groups all over the place yes and they don't work together. Right. For a variety of reasons.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah just whatever I mean everyone's busy. Yeah yeah like you said we've got great trails everywhere.
SPEAKER_00:I know uh so so nice to see like the the next step happening in our cycling. What's is there any other like crazy rumors that you've been hearing on all the socials or any um things that you hear people talking about or you know people ask you about all the time that we haven't covered um I can't think of anything off because they're getting about a million bucks right yeah yep million dollars for the trail um and then I know timeline's a big one and then who's gonna take care of it and is there going to be stuff out there any in the future which it sounds like there will be yeah sound like there there definitely can be um yeah that's about it I mean really it's just been a a long grind of like hey we wanted this really cool thing and then everyone's like tell me about it like there's not a lot to tell yeah just a lot of waiting yeah it's the fed I would love to tell you but I can't yeah and I have nothing.
SPEAKER_01:There's just nothing to say.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Um so where where how much longer are you involved in this situation? What where do you go from here?
SPEAKER_01:Oh I've I I of course stay with this because it's I'm again I gotta see it through yeah and uh but you're getting closer yeah to the finish line I'll be finished with the trail part and and I'll I'm gonna help you know get people inspired to come out there and work and and again I want people to fall in love with the trail the same way I did uh and you know team warm up did and everybody who's ridden out there just they've got its own it's its own thing it's the best and uh especially since Crispin went away like oh man when Crispin went away T Bird was that was it in central Oklahoma it's those those were the two trails. Right. Yeah so I I really want to get some folks uh excited about it again yeah and and loving it so that'd be super cool. Um again I'd like to see uh you know help get this organization started that can help trails at the state park and just kind of kind of get that started because again I'm not the person who needs to be running that but that person does exist. And the and the board members and everybody else that does is gonna help take Oklahoma mountain biking to another level just like Arkansas did. I think those people are out there and I think they are looking for a way to help and and are wondering what to do. I think if we get them all in the same room they'll come up with something amazing and I'll definitely just again just just kind of help get those people in the pot mix up the pot a little bit and then step away.
SPEAKER_00:100% yeah I think we're on the same page with that.
SPEAKER_01:That's for me and then just just ride my bike and have fun. That's that's what I want to do.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Yeah that's the thing is I'm like I have nothing to gain from any of this stuff from any of it. All I'm going to do through all of this stuff that we've been doing recently and stuff that we want to do is probably make enemies and piss people off because I they don't see it our way or you know or or kind of or don't they just like the way that it was happening.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it I get it. I totally get the change sucks for some people um and I understand that you know it's the way we've this is the way we've done it this is the way we're gonna do it is the answer from multiple groups. That's true. And that's a great way to die. Like that's a great way for innovation to never happen and it just go into the ground over time. So I'm so excited to see fresh ideas and fresh things happening. And I'm the same as you I just want to be a connector. So however we anybody that's listening to this that knows somebody or has a connection or anything like that, reach out and we will figure out who they need to talk to and figure out how they those people need to connect.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I think I think that's important. And maybe you know I'm not super active on social media and I kind of just like I cut hair in a little bitty old place. I kind of go in my little hole and yeah and get to work and stay at home uh and ride my bike when I can but I think it'd be cool over the winter time when everything kind of is chill after the holidays just to get those folks interested in the same room like let's all meet at let's go to Capital Co-op drink some coffee let's talk about it and uh let's see where it goes from here and then those folks can take over 100% agree. And I think it'd be so cool to see to see that just blossom into something. Yeah I agree.
SPEAKER_00:Um are you gonna be the first one to ride your bike on the new trail I know I don't that doesn't need to be me. I don't know who it does need to be you. No I don't know you have to be in that first group you have to I'll be so I'll get dropped out of that group that's fine out of shape you have to be the first ones on that trail.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe no I think the team guys need to come and do that. I think I would love it. That would be cool. It'd be really cool that would be really cool I'll see them smiling about it and loving it.
SPEAKER_00:Um so that'd be cool for me um you need to be in that group yeah totally I'll be at the back of it though that's fine uh yeah you've done way too much for this to thank you to not be be on that front that first inaugural ride of of smiles actually Randy we're putting Randy at the front of that group that'll be awes that's what we're gonna do he's the he's the godfather of T-Bird at this point he should be and knowing Randy be like I screw off you know he would have 18 explicit adjectives to say no oh yeah completely inappropriate completely inappropriate with a no at the end yes yeah that's exactly right um cool well is there anything else you want to add to this I can't think of anything at all thank you very much for having me well we have we have to do a yard sale before at in every episode okay so these are just quick questions that mean that have nothing to do with anything totally random got it um first off do you drink alcohol no okay what's your favorite coffee uh what's your favorite go-to coffee drink uh tall black or americano so been lately I've been to Pekka the Ethiopia uh roast that's that's what I've been at home uh favorite place you've ever ridden your bike oh man uh zippity doodle and frutta oh that's a good one that was a fun one yeah so do you spend a lot of time on the frutta trails I was we spent a couple of weekends out there over the years okay I've always I've driven through it and seen it from the road but I do want to go out there and it's gotta stop. I mean it's yeah it's two totally different animals one side of the interstate to the other okay it's just it's super duper cool I haven't been out there in years but okay yeah the first time I rode that trail I was like oh my gosh this is it that's what I've heard it just I mean just it was that trail that bike that day just it was just it was it was magic it was it uh did you because I drove through it going to Moab and I was with my uncle who he's ridden there a couple times he's like it is it's everything you've heard it is it is okay all right well and what's wild is it's like this random dot on the highway in the middle of nowhere and they have huge statues in the um when you get off the highways now like in the roundabouts that are cycling it's like oh yeah it's like a Europe kind of vibe with their artwork and all stuff around this tiny little nothing town at the western town. Yeah it's super weird took hold it's super weird it did take hold it is wild. Okay that's a good one. Place that you want to ride that you haven't ridden.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man uh I actually I signed up for an enduro race two years ago in Oaxaca Mexico uh it's they do it on the day of the dead so that's the one I want to do maybe this next year is hit that race and uh just have a good time down there. Wow the trails look amazing and the city looks even better. That's cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah that would be a super cool trip.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah it'd be really cool. Um what's the favorite vacation you've ever been on oh man that's a tough one I've been a lot of good ones okay pick a couple that's usually my priority top two or three uh hop one of my tops is uh we used to drive dirt roads in our trucks and uh just having my kid drive down and she was six at the time she drove from she drove over Mont Pass in our truck she did that's awesome uh that was a really good trip this summer did you guys overland kind of yeah that's super cool um so yeah we did that for a few years that was super cool um man did did some uh just some cool motorcycle trips too out there uh this last summer we did go to London and Paris I'd never been over there it was really neat to see the differences of their cities than our cities yeah they're pretty similar but you like London or Paris better I liked Paris better my wife and daughter loved London better so that I did I thought it would be more the other way I did too yeah so that's just the way it went down okay pastries as you can see stop not even not even a little bit um any exciting Christmas or New Year's plans? Uh new year we're gonna spend New Year's in Puerto Varto Mexico wow um nice yeah so we're gonna do that and just chill out turn the phones off and sounds great just just walk along and eat tacos and enjoy the sand that doesn't suck no um so the one I always ask everybody is uh what's your it's used to be favorite bike piece of equipment under a hundred dollars but at this point it's it's because it doesn't exist really anymore.
SPEAKER_00:What's your favorite piece of bike equipment besides a bike?
SPEAKER_01:Uh like an accessory of some sort oh man accessory I was gonna say like buzzing hubs like Chris King style.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh Chris King style yeah like the big louder the better okay okay uh my funny story that you know Troy Cowan oh yeah okay I just got his hair like a couple weeks ago oh did you okay so me and Troy he'll tell you the story too he likes to tell everybody um I was so new to this stuff I had no idea about anything and we went and did a race and Troy clearly should not have been my race he was sandbagging like a champ. Both were the same Troy yeah it was a cat five road race oh my god and in Woodward okay Troy was in my division right doesn't shouldn't whatever so we're rolling along and we the me him and this other guy who could have dropped us at any given time that guy because that guy wanted to not look at us anymore he could have just ridden away with nothing we could have done. And we're going down this hill and I turned his room I'm like dude what is wrong with your bike and he's like what do you mean I was like something is wrong with your wheel like listen to it. He's like that's the way it's supposed to sound like no that's just something is not right with your hub man I don't know what's wrong with it but it's not good. He's like it's a Chris King hub that's how they sound like that's right oh got it okay and still to this day he's like remember that time that you thought you were you were such an idiot and you thought my Chris King hub was wrong I was like yeah that sounds right yeah so now I know the beauty of Chris King hubs yeah that's at the time it did not they do sound nice they're pretty cool do you have colored hubs I don't even have Chris King hubs anymore I've got some industry nines that are pretty close. That's pretty close yeah they're no they're just black what kind of bike boring uh right now I'm running a specialize okay uh the uh stum jumper uh stum jumper something it's a bigger stum jumper it's not the regular one it's the do you uh do you have a dream bike no whatever one's under me I'll ride any bike I do I just see good suspension on it that's all I care about that's fair enough um man thank you so much for your time thank you very much I had a lot of fun it was fun I hope this clears up a lot of things and I really hope that this like helps get the ball rolling for the future of mountain biking in Oklahoma. I really think this project is really going to push central Oklahoma to that next level that it really really needs. And so I'm so thankful for people like you.
SPEAKER_01:Cool thank you I'm excited to get it rolling happy to do it.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks a lot