Finding leads with Planning Pipe

Want more targeted leads? Of course you do!
In this episode we look at a fantastic tool called Planning Pipe which collates projects submitted for planning permission.

Paul Graham founded Planning Pipe in 2010 to provide accessible and affordable information about new construction projects in Planning across the UK. Paul is a business information specialist and formerly Managing Director of established UK construction information provider, Glenigan.

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Transcript

So, welcome to the podcast. Really pleased today to welcome Paul Graham as a guest. We've actually recorded this podcast a couple of times and we've had some technical fails every single time, so we're hoping this is third time lucky. Paul, really nice to have you on the show. 



Thank you very much. 



So, Paul is the founder of Planning Pipe, which is a lead generation software for construction companies. It's a software that I've used for many years when I had my construction business and it's one we really recommend to a lot of our clients as a fantastic tool for generating leads. So I really wanted to get Paul on today to explain why this should be a tool that you should consider as part of your marketing strategy. So, Paul, would you like to just maybe introduce yourself and let us know what your background in construction marketing is? 



Sure. So my background going back is in business publishing. And 2002, I worked for a company, managed a company called Glenagan, which is one of the main established players in this sort of area. And then after that, I set up Planning Pipe, which was an attempt, really, to provide this sort of information for smaller and medium sized companies, I guess, at a price that was much more manageable for them. I think in the past, there's been, as many people in the industry may know, there's been two main providers of construction sales leads information in the UK, Glenigan and Barbara Abi. 



But the subscription prices for them are well into the thousands and it didn't provide an easy means for entry for a lot of companies who were either dipping their toe in the market or didn't have the marketing budgets to stretch to those sorts of numbers. So what we tried to do, really, was to give people, I guess, the key elements of what this system has to offer. And by the system, I mean the planning system. And that is essentially to give you a heads up on the decision makers on any plan construction work across the whole of the UK. So what we try and do is give you a heads up on what work is coming, filtering it down to the type of project looking for and then get you in at the right time. 



And that is before key decisions are made on who's doing the build, who's the contractor on the build, but then also the products and services that will be specified on the build and getting you in at the time. That is right before those decisions are made. So, in sales and marketing terms, I think it's a unique opportunity for a lot of firms. 



So just to clarify to everyone who's listening how you're gathering this data, because obviously the data is all there on the public record, isn't it, the planning commission data. So someone's going to submit some plans to the council and due to the data freedom of information, is it? That data is always there, isn't it? So anyone could go onto a local planning authority's website and potentially find that data, but why is your software so much better than manually having to go on and find that information? 



I think anybody who's actually been onto an individual local authority website will appreciate some of the challenges involved in actually finding the right information for you. So what we do is essentially take, we track every single planning application in the UK. So that's about half a million a year. We filter that down to exclude things like tree work and advertising notifications and all sorts of, I suppose, noise that's going on in the planning system and we save people time. But also we research the key contact information on those schemes so that at a planning stage will be the client, the architect or agent on the project and then also provide them with viable contact details to get in touch. 



So for example for let's say, house extensions or home renovations and that's probably the overwhelming majority of construction work that's going through the planning system. We're reporting on about 200,000 of those a year. So we'll provide named contact details for the client so that will be not just the occupier, but who that person is, and also provide address contact details in mail merge format so you can easily market to those clients. Together with that, on each project we provide architect contact details and that's the name of the architect, the firm, and also telephone number and email. 



So what is the biggest makeup of your client base? Is it general builders or do you have a mix of different trades and specialities? 



It's a split, really. I mean, I suppose our main customers are main contractors, small to medium sized firms. There are some larger firms in there as well, but also material and product suppliers. So these are firms who are wanting to target, let's say, architects critically at the specification stage, and larger projects. For larger projects, we're reporting on client telephone numbers as well for the larger schemes, also giving people an idea of the scale of the projects as well. So for example, for a residential, let's say, contractor, they're not often targeting very large schemes that will be left to the big developers, but maybe they want, let's say, multi residential schemes under ten units. 



They want them in a 25 miles radius or 50 miles radius from their location, so we'll be able to filter down from the planning system and that 50 miles radius may cover 2030 different local authorities. So from a practical point of view, for any customer or client, it would take too much time to attempt to trawl through all of that information to narrow it down to what you want. So we provide all that filtering and then give you a means to target the types of projects that you want in the areas that you want to target. 



And also on your portal, I noticed that there are other specialty things that you report on. For example, hotels, schools, industrial things like that. So there's quite a range, isn't there? If you do have a specialist company that maybe you only target hotels, renovations or something else, there is the ability to search for that, isn't there? 



Oh, for sure. So, I mean, we've got quite a large number of clients who target commercial schemes, commercial and public sector schemes. So anything from steel manufacturers looking at storage facilities, warehousing, industrial units, or even agricultural buildings. We're reporting on about five and a half thousand agricultural buildings across the UK through to playground manufacturers and suppliers, those wanting to target nurseries for supplying them with equipment, hotels, bar conversions to cafes or bars. So there's quite a wide range. I mean, it's literally everything that goes through planning. So it covers every sector, covers every category. And we also report on every size of scheme as well, large and small. So you can filter in or out things that are either too small or too big for you and just thinking. 



About how niche you can get with your filtering, because you even offer keyword research, don't you? Or to pick up certain keywords in planning applications. 



Yeah, that's right. So sometimes you'll get, let's say we've got a swimming pool manufacturers. So swimming pools, they may be private residential ones, they may be public leisure centers, but you can pick those up with a keyword search. We've got marina manufacturers or jetties MOT bays. So whatever is within likely within a description of a keyword, if you, I don't know, houses are multiple, occupation, it's almost the sky's the limit in terms of keywords that you can search on. And that particularly if you're targeting a niche supplier or contractor searching over a large area, there kind of isn't any other way of doing that other than using a system like planning pipe can provide. 



Brilliant. Now, you mentioned earlier that you left Glenn's and Glennigans and Barber Abi obviously charge extensive fees because they say they're putting a lot more research into contact details and things and maybe reporting on bigger schemes. So you've come up with a model that is so much more affordable for the everyday main contractor or specialist supplier. Give us an idea of what those fees are. Because you offer a couple of tiers, don't. 



You'Re, looking we offer sort of two, well, four versions of the service. So if you're regional targeting a particular region, the regions are quite big. So London is a region southeast southwest, you can pick up to two of those. So if they cross over regions, that's fine. And you're looking entry level at around about 45 quid a month, and that's on a month by month basis. So we do offer a higher tier bespoke service and that you can get a lot more sophisticated, but that's only a ten or more for those two regions. So about 55 pounds a month. Nationally it's around about 110. So if you compare that to I guess probably the big two providers of this who you're looking at thousands three 4000 upwards pounds a year with often a long term commitment. 



And what we try and do is offer both an affordable service but also flex of all month by month subscriptions. And that really helps. People can dip in and dip out depending where their business is, their new business requirements. 



It's incredible how affordable it is. I was blown away really when I first come across it compared to my experiences with Glenagans and others I would. 



Say to be you know, what we don't do is we don't track post planning approval. So I mean a lot of those no disrespect to those companies because they're very solid, very well established companies they do research post planning approval. So we're not a service really that's geared towards subcontractors who are looking to target main contractors for example because we won't necessarily track those sorts of or track who those people are post planning approval and we don't track let's say start on site dates. So for those firms targeting sites in progress we're probably reporting at too earlier stage. But I mean if you think about it the core value which is what's being planned, where it's being planned and the ability to filter down to what you're looking for we're providing what I think is the core value at a very affordable price. 



So people listening to this will obviously have a bit of a marketing budget and they'll have their own marketing strategies and this may be completely new strategy for some. So some might just be doing Facebook ads and Google pay per click. Why do you think this direct marketing strategy is so effective? 



Well I think what you're doing is you're getting the details and the ability to target the key decision makers at the point at which they're making those decisions and before they're making those decisions and that makes it a unique tool. I mean, the planning system provides that possibility, but what we try and do is open up that possibility to give you the balance of quantity of leads. Because essentially, you have to be going out there, marketing your service to a large enough pool of interested prospects to generate a response, but balancing that with the quality of who you're targeting. So it's the type of projects not only that are being worked on but the type of projects that you actually want to target. 



So we get, quite as an example we're getting house residential contractors who've been working on home renovations who want to make that next step up. So they want to work on single dwelling, single property new builds or conversions or small multiresidential conversions. So they need to know what's going on in that area to be able to target those sorts of schemes really to have a good chance of making that step up. So it gives you that balance. 



In. 



Your marketing activity of targeting the right number of people in the right areas at the right time, which I think is for any marketing and sales professional is pretty powerful. 



Yeah, without a doubt. And just to strip it right back to basics, you're obviously providing all the data and you said that you can extract that data. What would a company typically do with that market and strategy once they've got that data? 



There's a few different approaches depending on the type of schemes that you're looking at. But let's start with the sort of smaller contractors or material suppliers if they're targeting single home renovations or single dwellings. You've got two entry points there. You've got the client and that will be typically mailings and we provide that in postal mail merge format. We've recently teamed up with an online print and mailing company called Selector Base who've offered they're providing essentially mailings at print and mailing at less than the price of a second class stamp with no minimum volume. So you can send out as few or as many letters as you wish. And that works together pretty seamlessly with our data. You can send letters directly from your desktop to that company who will then send it to the prospects based on the data that we provide. 



You've also got architect contact details, again in mail merge format, you've got emails for those, you've also got phone numbers, but that gives you insight into what architects are working on, the types of projects or in the areas that you're looking at for you to build a relationship with. And those can be those architects or often project managers on schemes and they can be real influences in guiding their clients as to not only some contractors to use, but also from material and product supplier perspective or what gets specified on that project. So those are important influencers and decision makers at that level. That goes also for the larger schemes as well. So for larger multi residential schemes or commercial projects, you'll open up client telephone numbers as well. 



So you can contact clients directly as well as the architects and there's telephone numbers for that. And what that means is that I don't really think anybody cold calling is given a bad name, but this is the data and the information to provide an informed research call. It's a call about something that's relevant that they're working on and you hopefully will have a product or a service that can offer something that is relevant to that particular scheme at the right time. So again, that same goes for mailings in terms of you're getting in there before a tender scheme. So it's that approach at the right time that separates this from a general promotion or marketing or sales activity to those individuals. Yeah. 



Now, I don't know whether you have any experience with the stats after people generate your data. Paul so I might be asking a question here that you can't answer, but do you know just to manage expectations from people? Sometimes it is a numbers game, isn't it, with this? So if you send out ten letters or 100 letters, do you know any further stats on how many of those might be responded to? Or how do we manage people's expectations when they're doing these mail sends? 



It obviously does vary. We've got some advice on our website about how to the kind of do's and don'ts when you talk about mailings, I kind of boil it down from the start as to how many people use our service again and again, because our service planning pipe service is only really used for new business generation. So if it's not generating new business for our customers, then there is no point in subscribing, really, and no point in carrying on. So we judge it by year on year, our renewal rate, so how many people are coming back to us year on year, and that's just over 70%. So it doesn't work for everyone, that's for sure. But it does work for a good majority. I think that's kind of influenced as well by some of the basics of sales, of marketing and preparation. 



Before you make that approach, you've got to get those things right. You've got to have yes, a good letter. Have you got a website? Does your initial approach with your prospect, can you continue that communication to following either a positive response or a call for another inquiry? So what we can't really help with in a way is that post contact process to help you towards that sale. And that's something that there's no science behind that, but it does heavily influence the success that you will have with our service. 



Sure, yeah, 100%. And just as a bit of advice for those listening, because my clients have tested this out multiple ways, you usually find that just one letter doesn't always do the trick. And sometimes you do have to send multiple letters, maybe two, even three, just to get through to people. Sometimes that first letter can be put to one side and think, I'll deal with that later. And then the second or third letter actually is the one that gets through. And I think, actually, I do need to deal with this. Let me contact this company and get a quote. So don't give up at the first attempt. 



No, for sure. I mean, we do, particularly with things like home renovations, so house extensions, loft conversions, basement conversions, that sort of thing. You've got two opportunities, key triggers, once when the planning is submitted, so that's at that sort of earlier stage and you've got the ability to go in at that stage. But once the project is approved, and assuming it's approved and we report on that as well, it does provide another opportunity for those targeting those sorts of schemes to go in. And similarly with the larger commercial projects, there's obviously a planning process. Some of the larger targeting larger schemes possibly might want to wait till the approval stage. Often the larger schemes take longer to go through, not only the planning stage, but also the tender and starting on site, the whole construction process. 



But for the majority of those smaller schemes, if you can get in early and get in there's an opportunity to get at people twice, then it obviously does help. 



So Paul, you've had thousands of companies come through and use the service. Have you got any success stories of someone who's tried it and potentially changed their business because they've been using this as their marketing strategy? 



I think almost all of our longer term subscribers and repeat customers. I mentioned some of the, let's say a contractor who's going to target those larger schemes. Well, that's I think certainly transformed lots of companies that I know that are ongoing customers. But also it's going at it from the perspective of companies who are looking at I suppose what we've introduced, I mean, fairly recently is the ability to target by house value. So in other words, we've kind of crunched the numbers on property sales data and given people now the ability to segment by the value of the house that they're targeting. So for quite a lot of suppliers of high end services or products, this has been a godsend. 



That they can target properties over 2 million pounds, let's say across the whole of the UK or just southern England or however you want. Mean, it just makes their marketing and sales approach both much more efficient, but opens it up to clients and prospects that they never would have been able to target were it not for these insights. 



It is a really fantastic addition and yeah, really pleased that you've added that because that is certainly a game changer for many. Are you allowed to tell us of any other features that you're planning over the next year or so, Paul, or have you got to keep that under wraps? 



No, well, we're looking at so one of the other things we're looking at is putting together some insights into architects and who are the active architects in particular segments. You can get that information over time if you'll see the same firms and names come up regularly. But we're going to tabulate and Rank who are both the active architects in particular regions, counties, nationally and in particular sectors. So whether or not they're house extension architects or specialist commercial or larger residential architects typically work and those are the sorts of relationships that are quite lucrative, hard to develop, but it gives you a starting point on who to target and how to approach them. 



So that's coming up, I would say with the property price data that we've also just added, what that's also given us, which will give our clients, our Bespoke clients, insight into is what are the most lucrative postcodes in the UK or in their region or in their county. So if you're looking to either very much actively target those or even avoid those sorts of postcodes, then this gives you a kind of top ten of, okay, these are the areas that you should be looking at. So there's quite a lot of power in the information for people to access. 



That's fantastic. Yeah, and like I said, I think that's a brilliant addition and I think the new addition of gathering the architect data together is going to be really useful too. So exciting to see what the future is going to bring for Planning Pipe. Paul, so really appreciate you running through all of that with us. How would anyone listening to this? If they want to taste what Planning Pipe is like, you've already mentioned there's not a year contract or anything. They can just do it month to month. How would they get onto that? What is the details to find Planning Pipe? 



So just go to planningpipe co UK. You can sign up as a free customer, you can browse around all of the projects, you can filter, you can almost use it as a normal subscriber. It gives you a feel for what's out there. We're also happy to provide samples of the information so you know exactly what you're getting in advance and give you account estimate based on the criteria of projects that you're looking at. So you know up front, before you've made any financial commitment, what data you'll receive and approximately how many leads that will generate. And as I say, you can sign up directly from the website month by month for the Bespoke service. We do have an initial six month minimum commitment, but it does go month by month after that. 



But it's not, as I think we said at the outset, it's not big money to subscribe, so we give you hopefully enough in advance to give you confidence in making a decision to subscribe, but also we don't lock you in for a year contract or anything like that. 



Brilliant. Well, I think that's going to be really valuable for my listeners, Paul, because as we said, there's many different market strategies out there, but I think this particular data that you're providing is fantastic for the cost. It is and it just gives people another string in their boat to use in that strategy. So thank you very much for coming on today. Really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best. 



Thank you very much. Cheers.