From Pipeline Panic to Multi-Million Pound Projects with John Eastwood

In this episode, Greg Wilkes sits down with John Eastwood, founder of a high-end residential building company operating in London’s prime and super-prime market.

John shares an honest account of what it really takes to move from steady but fragile growth into a controlled, multi-million-pound business. From nearly running out of work while self-funding his own home build, to becoming a go-to contractor for £2m–£4m projects, this conversation unpacks the mindset shifts, systems, and decisions that changed everything.

🔹 Key topics:

✅ The danger of a shallow pipeline — how relying on a handful of architects nearly stalled the business, and why consistent outreach matters even when things feel “fine”.

✅ Why building your own house can expose cracks in the business — cash flow pressure, stress, and the wake-up call it creates.

✅ Winning bigger work without racing harder — why scaling project value is often smarter than scaling volume.

✅ Positioning and proposals that convert — how changing the way prices were presented dramatically improved win rates, without being the cheapest.

✅ Stepping off the tools properly — the real impact of hiring a project manager and building a leadership layer that protects quality and sanity.

✅ Systems that protect profit — tracking jobs properly, spotting issues early, and why knowing your numbers weekly changes decision-making.

✅ Software at the right stage — lessons from using Buildertrend, Procore, and PlanRadar, and when these tools actually make sense.

This is a grounded, real-world episode for builders who want fewer jobs, better clients, stronger margins, and a business that doesn’t rely on them firefighting every day.

If you’re serious about moving into higher-value work and building something sustainable, John’s story will hit home.

Instagram: @Karringtons_ltd

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-eastwood-b97597243/?originalSubdomain=uk 

https://www.karringtons.co.uk/

https://developcoaching.co.uk

For more episode please visit:
https://developcoaching.co.uk/construction-podcast/

If you'd like to discuss fast-tracking your results, book in a free call - https://www.developcoaching.co.uk/schedule/

If you'd like help growing your business join my private Facebook group - https://m.facebook.com/groups/constructiontradesaccelerator

Transcript

Greg: [00:00:00] John, great to have you on the podcast. Welcome.

John: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. 

Greg: Yeah. Awesome. So John, let's let's talk about your story first, shall we, and first of all how we met. So it, it was a, was it a couple years back when we first met? 

John: I think it's just been three years now.

John: I think we, we started with you probably in October, so we've just clicked over the three year mark. 

Greg: Okay. Awesome. All right, so let's go back three years and talk about how things were for you back then. So, I know you were, I think you were doing your own project at the time, weren't you? You were doing your house and trying to build your company up at the same time.

Greg: Is that right? 

John: Yeah, so we'd been we've sort of been sort of growing sort relatively slowly but sort of consistently. And then I sort taken my house, I was building that as well. And then we just had a, like say we, an issue with the drive up and it just left us in a bit of a vulnerable position because we'd, we didn't have any, we had a big hole in our pipeline.

[00:01:00] 

John: And we didn't really have a deep enough like, connections with architects or sources of work and where I've been building my own house that had really sort of drained a lot of, sort of my personal funds. So, it just left us in a bit of precarious position. 

Greg: Yeah, it's I mean I've done that time and time again.

Greg: Built, built my own houses and it's painful, especially, you know, if you're doing it to live in and it might not necessarily be to sell, you sort of chuck all your money into it and it's just like a endless pit, isn't it of money disappearing. And then, 

John: yeah, 

Greg: that's quite stressful. Then on, on the other hand.

Greg: So, why do you think you had this pipeline problem? Was it. That you'd taken your eye off the ball or was like, what do you think led to the pipeline not being where you wanted it to be? 

John: I think we, so we'd already always been really fortunate with whenever, so we'd always taken on a small number of, a small number of projects because for us it's about the delivery.

John: So I always wanted to be really involved. So we've taken on a small number of projects, but we'd always been able to sort of make a couple of phone calls and get a job straight away without any issues. 

[00:02:00] 

And then, so then the problem we've had is we got to a position where I was like, okay, we need to start getting some more work in.

John: And sort of, you know, made the normal phone calls to the architects that we had been dealing with and everyone had stuff that wasn't quite in a position to tender. And that sort of suddenly put the pressure on because it, we didn't have that deeper base of architects. People that we can talk to about generating the work.

John: And so that's when it's really hit home that we needed to sort of go out there and really sort of get a bit more of a name for ourselves. 

Greg: Yeah. And come up with a bit of a marketing strategy. So that's easy done, isn't it? I think we can come quite reliant on good sources of work and, you know, put all our eggs in, you know, a couple of baskets potentially, so that I think that there's a lot of people that can relate to that.

Greg: Let's just go back a little bit further, John, to what your background is because you haven't got a trade background, have I? Is that right?

John: Yeah, no, I was a chippy, so I've always been super in West London. So, that was my sort of my main background. And then once I left, I stopped doing that.

John: I started flipping houses for myself. 

[00:03:00] 

So I sort of done a bit of development. And then when the sort of markets changed in sort of 08, 09, we then moved into working for clients. 

Greg: Oh, cool. Okay, awesome. Right, so if for some reason I thought you had like a project management or QS background or something, so I must have got that wrong.

Greg: Obviously come off more professional than a chippy when we talk, so all good. So, okay, so you were doing some real high-end projects, that was your background. Was that your intention then when you started this company to get into the more luxurious high-end work? 

John: Yeah, so for me that was a, like a massive insight sort of doing those projects.

John: We were working on 35 million pounds of houses in West London and it just gave me the real taste for the high end, the luxury finishes and sort of delivering that sort of, you know, millimeter perfect sort of quality of cropper ship. So that is kind of when I moved into developments and flipping houses, although we were on a much smaller scale.

John: For me it's about sort of the finish. And that's kind of where we've then pushed the company to go to. 

[00:04:00] 

So we're working on like the, sort of the priming in sort of London.

Greg: Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Alright. So. Let's just go back a step then. So we said that in the middle of doing your house up, you need as much money as possible to do that because it's expensive.

Greg: And then all of a sudden work's drying up. You've reached out to all your current contacts. They haven't got a lot. So what happened from there? Where did you go to, you know, what did you do to turn things around? 

John: Well, so we sort of, kind of came to you guys because we're in that position where.

John: We couldn't find the work. Everyone that we'd spoken to or speaking to didn't have anything that was a avail or sort of ready to start or ready to tender. So we were just in this position where we started trying to do some marketing and then I just sort of came across your podcast and started listening to it.

John: I was thinking, oh, there's some really good sort of bits of information on here. And then suddenly you sort of say, you're in my feed all the time. I just thought, well, this, maybe this is a bit of a, you know, a bit of a coincidence. So I just sort of reached out and started working together. 

Greg: Yeah, cool.

[00:05:00] 

Greg: So the algorithm got you in the end, which is yeah. Is what we want. Anyway, if anyone's listening to this podcast now, I just know I'm gonna be all over your feed until until you join us, so, no, that's all good. Did you ever did you ever feel like quitting John and thinking, ah, you know, this isn't working.

Greg: Maybe I should do something else. 

John: Yeah, so I mean, when this was all happening, it was sort of coming up to my, my, my 40th and I suppose there's a bit of reflection that we sort of been doing really well, had this nice steady growth and then suddenly my sort of personal funds had sort of completely dried up where we put everything into the house didn't have a continuation of work, there was a massive amount of stress.

John: And you sort of just looked at it and thought, well, is this really, is this what you know? Is this what I want? So I sort of went down a bit of a rabbit hole, sort of like personal development I suppose. And that's kind of where I then was looking through different podcasts. I remember reading one of the books, which was sort of no excuses, which sort of just popped up on I think it's on my Spotify. And so I listened to it. I found it quite interesting. 

[00:06:00] 

And then. I thought, you know what? I wonder if there's something like this that's construction based and that's where I stumbled across your podcast. So yeah, it was that point of looking at it. But for me, I absolutely love construction and it's something I've always wanted.

John: At one point I was gonna sort of be an architect. I'd had looked at doing that, so it was something I was always into. So I knew that I kind of wanted to stay in this arena. I thought it was a bit of unfinished business. I thought sort of double down and see what I can do to sort of keep going and grow a business.

Greg: Yeah. Nice. It reminds me of a similar situation I went through when my business collapsed many years back. The first business I had, it was so stressful. I was going through a really difficult time and, you know, weighing up, you know, what did I wanna do? Did I even wanna stay in this industry or do something else, but construction's what I knew and loved, you know, that was, that's all I'd ever done since growing up.

Greg: But I did the same as you. I went on a bit of a self-development journey and, you know, read a ton of books and. Look, listen to a ton of podcasts and some real motivational stuff. 

[00:07:00] 

And I must say, like, working on your own mindset during those periods. And if anyone's listening to this and they're going through a period like that at the moment, you know, really take some time out to work on your own mindset because it's, that is what's gonna turn things around eventually for you.

Greg: So, yeah, I can definitely relate to that, John. So let's talk a little bit further then. So you've joined our. Membership, our developed masterminds. But things didn't click immediately for you, did they? I remember when we first started working together and getting messages from you back and forth, but you were putting in the work.

Greg: So tell us like what actually happened right at the beginning, because it wasn't this, if you just landed a job on day one, was it? 

John: No, I mean, so we, obviously you get your onboarding and we're going through those bits. We sort of already. Kind of looked at what we need to do and sort of, sort of realized that we need to increase our marketing, sort of outreach to other architects and try and find the work at Source.

John: So we sort of started to implement updating our websites. And then the one the big things from takeaways from what you guys were doing was the sort of the, when you send the price through the actual document that you goes through.

[00:08:00] 

Where it's personalized to the client, it has a lot more information about what we do as a company, how we work.

John: I think that really made a massive difference. From that point. We started to win a lot more work. Our sort of hit rate was far higher. We kind of went on a bit of a streak of winning pretty much everything. I think that as opposed to just giving someone a sheet of numbers. We're able to give them a document.

John: That's what we explained, what we do and where our value is. I think that's a lot of the time, you know, we are never the cheapest company. But I think the service that we provide is a really high quality service. So it's trying to get that across the client so they understand that you are not just.

John: How you look after them and look after the build and the whole process. 

Greg: Yeah. A hundred percent. I think this is one of the keys, isn't it? Is having like a, your unique selling point and understanding what that is. I think many companies they'll come up with some generic selling point that isn't unique because everyone's got the same sort of, you know, same three selling points that they do.

[00:09:00] 

Greg: But really understanding where you, your value lies and yeah, that might mean you're not the cheapest, but, you know, we don't wanna be winning work because we're the cheapest. Do we? We want people to appreciate why they're paying, you know, a little bit more. So yeah really clear that you've done that.

Greg: So that was good. You got very clear about your messaging and. I dunno if anyone might have missed this, what John just said. But one, one thing that he did change, which was really key was learning how, or learning what the client actually wanted to see in those brochures and in those presentations, because we've really gotta be able to personalize the offer that we're giving to the client.

Greg: And that was something you were able to do. So that's awesome that, I'm glad that really picked your conversion rate up again. So, just give us a guide as well, John, on, on the type of projects you were now aiming for. What was the sort of value of projects that you were aiming for back then and that you are now delivering?

John: Yeah, so I mean previously we were sort of, the project size was between sort of 400 and I think the biggest one we'd, we sort of done was about seven 50. And I remember looking at, you know, the big houses that were going up and thinking, how'd you get involved with those sort of projects? 

[00:10:00] 

Now the smallest project we've currently gotten is it's what, 1.2 million?

John: You've got one that's what, 2.5. And we're looking at some stuff that's in sort of four plus million mark. So, it's been a complete change in the caliber of work that we're doing. And it is hard 'cause sometimes you are turning down work because it's, and you just, we can't be competitive at that level.

John: But yeah, so it's been like a complete sort of change that where we are now, the company that clients are coming to, they're coming to us and saying, look, we've got this project, can you build it for us? Whereas, like I said before, I was looking at these big sites and thinking, how do you even get involved and sort of get to a point where they, you are critical enough for them to actually sort of consider you.

Greg: Yeah. And it is great that you've got that reputation locally. And there's something I need to tell you, John, actually, I haven't actually told you this, but I was speaking to a member in our group the other day who was actually in your area. And we were talking about, you know, how his his architect's outreach was going and, you know, he just, he was just starting some of it.

Greg: But he said that. There's no point in me going for the architects around here. 'cause John Eastwood's got them all sewn up. They're all against John. 

[00:11:00] 

And I said to him, well, look, there's because you know, he's not doing the two to 4 million pound build, you know, he is doing much smaller stuff than that.

Greg: I said, I'm sure I'm sure those architects got smaller stuff as well. I Sure John hasn't got the lot I'll, it just shows just his testament isn't it? To how. You are viewed locally, you know, in the area that actually you know, you are the company that's sewing a lot of these this work up and you are the go-to company.

Greg: So that's awesome. Great to hear. So, why do you think that's easier then to like, I mean, one thing we always talk about, don't we, is that when you're scaling. Tr rather than scaling volume of projects, can we start thinking about scaling the value of the project? You know, it's an easier way to, to do it sometimes, but you've obviously experienced that, John, so why do you think now you're turning over, you know, multimillions why do you think that's an easier way of doing it?

John: Well, so I suppose it's for me personally, again, because for us it was all about the quality. So I don't want to have hundreds of projects, you know, I wanna keep it down to a maximum of four or five projects. So, to achieve the sort of turnovers that we wanna be doing, you've gotta be doing high value work, and it just means that you can sort of commit far more time into the projects.

[00:12:00] 

John: Like personally, I'm involved with them, sort of management team are heavily involved with everything. So it just by doing. A better value job. You've got the better materials. There's a, there's better, there's a better quality product. And it just makes, for me, it makes life easier and it's kind of what I wanna be doing.

John: You know, I'm not that sort of rat race of sort of trying to, you know, race at the bottom of knocking out three by three extensions. It isn't really gonna, isn't really gonna do it for me. It's not what I'm about.

Greg: Hey, can I just ask a quick favor? We are constantly trying to bring on the best guests on this podcast so we can deliver as much value as possible, but the only way we can do that is if we get more subscribers, more likes, more comments, and more reviews. So subscribe to this channel and click notifications so you know, every time we've got a new video coming up, give us a review if you're getting any value from it, and give us a thumbs up.

Greg: We'd really appreciate that.

[00:13:00] 

Greg: Yeah, sure. One of the worries I think with a lot of builders that are scaling up, you know, and going from maybe, you know, half a million million pound company to three, four, 5 million you know, they worry about what is that gonna do to the business owner?

Greg: Like, is that gonna absolutely just fry me time-wise and I'm just gonna be, you know, completely inundated. Your really testament that isn't necessarily how it goes if you run it the right way. So maybe you could just give us some insights into, you know, what have you put in place that means, you know, you're not working 24 7 with regards to maybe team or systems.

Greg: Like what particular things have you done that, has it had the biggest impact to make it easier for you? 

John: Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you were trying to scale that as a one man, I think it would kill you really. So, so originally it was just me and myself. When we, before we started with you, I think my brother started working me for about a year, and that had taken a load of pressure off.

John: But the biggest thing, and again, it's one of the things that you were sort of, whenever we were speaking, you're like, you need to get project manager. And that has been our biggest, things has changed how we've progressed. Mm-hmm.

[00:14:00] 

 We've, I've been able to offload a lot of the operations, so, it's meant that I've been able to sort of take a bit of a step back, whereas on site all the time dealing with any of the sort of issues where someone else is sort of managing that now, it means I'm able to have a much better overview.

John: I can identify where the problems are. So we've already taken on like a junior QS because.

John: Like where my brother does all the admin side, he's been, he was starting to get overloaded and it's that when you sort of that realization and that again, that sort of kind of mindset shift that if you can get the right people in the right seats and you can get 'em doing the job, your capacity just naturally grows.

John: But you can also maintain your quality as well. You know, sometimes you'll grow too quickly and then suddenly your quality will go down the drain. You are on your own. And I look at like my project manager now, and I was thinking the other day, I was like, oh, if he wasn't here, I wouldn't be able to, I'm out meeting architects all the time.

[00:15:00] 

John: I'm sort of meeting clients, I'm looking at jobs. I would be able to do the operations side. I, you know, or there, there'd have to be a bit of, give somewhere and I wouldn't be able to keep the connections and keep things moving if I'm, if I was sort of caught up in the day-to-day one in the site.

Greg: Yeah. It's so true.

John: Yeah. It makes a massive one. 

Greg: Yeah really important. And I think we can forget that as business owners, that, you know, the real value in us as the business owner is having that high level overview and, you know, doing the strategy, not doing the day-to-day stuff, but very hard to get out of it.

Greg: And I think it's credit that you've managed to do that, so that's really good. How's you know, not that we're gonna reveal figures and whatever else, but as you've scaled, one of the dangers is you can all of a sudden, you know, start, become too top heavy in the office overhead wise, or, you know, things can start becoming wasteful on site.

Greg: How have you managed to get on with the profitability and managing that side of things? 

John: So we've implemented a couple of different softwares which really helped. So we, again, it's that sort of, you know, whatever gets tracked, gets managed and is that is a true phrase.

[00:16:00] 

John: So every week I'll review stuff. We do forecasts and then we'll also sort of do a quick, like a fortnightly check on the sort of where we sit across the jobs because every job is broken down and we itemize every single item. We're able to see exactly which item is profitable, if it's on the margins that we're expecting to make.

John: If we've made more, if we've made less. So we, we know across the job and across all the jobs exactly where we are financially and risk wise at any one point in time. I think that's like a real key key thing to do is if you've got the right software in place and you've got the right systems and every, that's, that is really key to everything.

John: If you can get the systems in place. You know, it's very easy to monitor and you can jump on any problems straight away as opposed to getting to the end of the job and suddenly being like, okay, where were we? And again, years ago we were in that sort of position where we'd, we sort of, I'd have a rough idea of where we were project wise, but it's not until you get towards the end and you start looking, you think, oh, okay, we didn't quite make as much as we were expecting.

[00:17:00]

John: And we don't really know where we lost the money. Whereas as soon as we started putting these processes and the systems in place, like straight away, you can identify the problem, know you like five week, five days, 10 days behind where you are. You can know exactly where you are cost-wise.

Greg: That's awesome. And just to let everyone know, the software you are currently using Procore, isn't it the one that you are using now, is that one of them? 

John: So we use Procore as our project management tool, which is really great for communications. And then we actually use a software called Plan Yard, which does our accounting.

John: And again, they integrate with each other. So that way you know, you've got sort of the movement of information between the two softwares. 

Greg: Yeah. Awesome. Now. Sometimes people listen to this and they, you know, immediately they're now looking at Procore and thinking, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get that.

Greg: When do you think is the right time to transition to Procore though? Because, you know, some will be listening to this, they may only be, you know, doing 500 KA million a year. What, when do you think that, because Procore isn't for everyone, is it? So what's your experience with it and you know, when is it the right time to implement that?

[00:18:00] 

John: So we went, we did we used Buildertrend to start with. So that we did that about two or three years. And that's a bit more of it covers a bit more sort, the smaller jobs up to the bigger ones. I mean, propo really say that they don't look at anyone unless they're doing over one to 2 million a year.

John: That's kind of their entry level. 'cause they're kind of more set up for a bigger, for much bigger companies, they took to a hundred million projects. So. We sort of looked at, well, if we get in a little bit earlier, as we grow, we've then got the software in place as opposed to sort of growing and then having to change again.

John: So that was my sort of thought process behind it. But yeah, sort of like you, you sort of, one and a half, 2 million is probably your entry level for protocol. 

Greg: Okay. Awesome. That's good. Good to know. So let's think about the future and what your plans are, John, for the business.

Greg: You know, where do you want to take this business over the sort of, you know, the next five years or so. Have you mapped out what you potentially wanna do with this?

John: Yeah, we've got like quite a clear vision on what we wanna do and sort of, you know, and sort of getting all the management team on board with that as well.

[00:19:00] 

John: So everyone kind knows what we wanna, for us it's, you know, if we can sort be hitting sort five, 6 million a year turnover, we'd be doing kind of exclusively the. Of, you know, four or five, you know, the real big one-offs. That's kind of where we want to be, but the real super prime in is Kenston Surrey and then we a look at doing some sort of like exclusive developments as well.

John: You know, that's kind of where we wanna sort of set ourselves in the next sort of five years. 

Greg: That's awesome. Yeah. Great. Great goal to go for and I think the way you are, you're going, it'll probably be a bit faster than that, so, no that's really good. John, you've obviously experienced growing a company going through the pain of transitioning from, you know, where, you know, where you started to, to where you are now.

Greg: If you were giving someone a sort of advice listening to this, is there anything you'd do differently? First of all, anything that you think you got wrong and thought I wish I hadn't have done that? If I'd done it again I wouldn't do that or I'd do it a different way. 

John: I think I would probably look at taking on probably a bit of staff a bit quicker.

[00:20:00] 

John: I think that was my, you know, one of, I remember sort of when we were, we had about three or four projects running and that was like a really stressful time. Again, it was just still me and sort my brother in the office. And trying to keep all of those running smoothly, trying keep everything organized, sort of chasing up, you know, the, just the mass variety of information you need to do.

John: There that was really hard and I think, you know, had we possibly taken on someone even like a year earlier than we did, if, you know sooner than that, then I think that would've enabled us to have grown. Even more, even quicker. 

John: Mm-hmm. 

John: And I think that's my for, it's really, it's the mindset of, 'cause sometimes you look at the cost of taking on a PM or taking on a member of stock, you think, oh, you know it's gonna be whatever it's a year.

John: But in actual fact, what you'll find is by taking them on that actually it just increases your capacity so you can turn over more and you.

[00:21:00] 

John: Having to manage the jobs. It's a completely different mindset and I think, yeah, if I could do it again or speak to myself, you know, even sort of 5, 10, 5, 10 years ago, I'd been like, look, taking more people, you know, this is, you know, you wanna be engaging people earlier so you can grow in the company, can grow.

Greg: Free up your own time. Yeah, for sure. So what advice would you give someone who's maybe stuck at the moment? Maybe they're, you know, somewhere between 500 and a million and they can't break through. What advice would you give them? Where do you think they should start? 

John: I think it's kind of maybe looking at your processes and your, like your marketing and how you are presenting yourself to the clients.

John: You know, there's sometimes there's a couple of builders, there's one of them on the group that we were chatting to and. After we, I was on a call with you on the sort of the develop group. He contacted me privately and he sent me through his, I said, look, send me through your information, what you send your clients.

[00:22:00] 

John: And I was, I had to be, I said, look, do you want me to be brutally honest or do you want me to just, and he said, no. And I said, that isn't gonna get you those jobs. I'm looking at that now, and I'm saying that's like a 300 grand project kind of contractor. You're not selling yourself for the hiring end stuff.

John: And he sort of looked at him, went, oh, do you know what? Yeah, I can completely see. I said, you know, everything's very generic. There's no, there's nothing that's, you know, selling that. You know, selling the vision of what you can create and mm-hmm. So yeah, straight away we changed the stuff. I think he's pulled in some, like million pound jobs now.

John: So it's kind of like, how do you, yeah. How do you sort of, you know, present yourself to the clients and to the architects and to the know contract administrators. How do you sell yourself to show that you are capable of delivering these projects? 'cause that's ultimately what they all want. They wanna know that.

John: Mm-hmm. If they give you the job that you're gonna deliver and deliver what they want. 

Greg: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, that's really good. And that's one thing I do love about our community is that everyone sort of jumps in and helps each other out and gives a bit of advice because you know, we don't know it all, do we really?

Greg: That's the reality of it. And sometimes when people are actually experiencing something right now and or someone comes on they can just offer absolute gold sometimes where, you know, everyone in the group goes, oh wow, none of us actually thought of that. So it's it's great that you're able to, you know, deliver that help.

[00:23:00] 

Greg: So we've talked about what the next level looks like for you, John. And it's quite exciting. I think, you know, we are looking forward to seeing you achieve that as you go forward. Do you think that you've changed as a leader and a business owner as you've as you've grown this business?

Greg: Or have you had to adapt yourself?

John: I think yeah, I think there's definitely been change. For me. It's, again, I, well, you know, you're in the midst of it. Where now I can take a step back. I, how everyone's doing. Not on a personal level, but how they're working and sort of maybe offering some advice or trying to make sure they've got the right training or trying to understand, or like trying to bring them on to the next role.

John: You know, we wanna sort of hard, so it's able to take a step back. I can sort of see who's doing what, how they're working and that, and doing that side of it. So I think that's probably, I've been a bit more involved in that really. Yeah, but I don't think I've changed too much.

John: Try to keep it. Keep it the same.

[00:24:00] 

Greg: No, that's awesome, John. Really valuable. I appreciate all your time on the podcast today and I love doing episodes like this because I just find it really inspiring for me, you know, to be able to see your journey and how you've changed. But I know anyone listening to this.

Greg: We'll find it inspiring too. I know when I was trying to grow my business, you were just always looking for those stories of how people did it and that just makes you think Yeah if John could do it, I can do it as well. You know, I just need to maybe change a few things. So thanks for your time today, John.

Greg: We really appreciate it.

John: Yeah, no problem. Thank you for having me.

Greg: Awesome. And where would where would people find you, John, if they wanted to see the type of work you're up to? And I know there's a few architects that listen to this as well. Where would they be able to get hold of you? 

John: So we're on Instagram and LinkedIn.

John: So Instagram is Carrington's Limited and websites Carrington uk.

Greg: Awesome. We'll put that in the show notes as well. Thanks, John. All the best.

John: Yeah, thanks a lot.