Spring Break? What Spring Break? (A Roundtable Talk with Teachers)

A lot of schools might be on spring break this week, but with public education at the center of so many right-wing attacks, there's no break for teachers. So in this episode, we’re putting America’s teachers front and center!

This week, Red Wine and Blue hosted a roundtable discussion with four public school teachers to hear about what they’ve been going through… in their own words. Book bans? Critical Race Theory? Covid? Angry parents at school board meetings? Teacher shortages? We talk about all of it and more.

But before we get to our panel of teachers, hosts Rachel Vindman, Jasmine Clark, and Amanda Weinstein dig into what they’ve been seeing in the news. Rachel gives an update on Ukraine, Amanda talks about rising gas prices, and everyone gets furious over the dangerous abortion bills in Missouri and Texas. (As Jasmine says, “if you’ve never had a period, you should not be writing bills about pregnancy. Period.”)

Finally, our hosts raise a glass to rest and recovery, seeing family (and discovering that all three hosts are big sisters!), and of course to amazing teachers in this week’s “Toast to Joy.”

If you enjoy The Suburban Women Problem, you might like White Picket Fence - a podcast from Wonder Media.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSA

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Transcript

Jasmine Clark: Hi, everyone. Thanks for listening. I'm Jasmine Clark. 

Amanda Weinstein: I’m Amanda Weinstein. 

Rachel Vindman: I’m Rachel Vindman. 

Jasmine: And you're listening to The Suburban Women Problem. 

Amanda: Today we’re doing something a little different: instead of interviewing one or two guests, Red Wine and Blue is holding a round table discussion with four public school teachers about what it's like being a teacher in America right now.

We talk about teachers a lot on this podcast, so we wanted to hear more from them— in their own words. That round table will be moderated by Beverly Batte of Red Wine and Blue. But before we get to that, let's check in. Last week, we were all pretty heated and emotional, between Rachel's husband being attacked by Marjorie Taylor Greene and the bills Jasmine's been pushing back against in Georgia and the heart-wrenching conversation we had with our first guest, Jen, about the Don’t Say Gay bill in Florida. Ooh. It was kind of a heavy episode. So how are we feeling this week? What's been blowing up our group chat? Rachel, you should start us with Ukraine. What is going on there? 

Rachel: Um, well, it's not good, you know, it's not good for the Russians, but it’s also not good for the Ukrainians. 

We are in Arizona because Alex was speaking at the Tucson Festival of Books and someone that I follow on Twitter and I really admire, Tom Nichols, was also there and he's written some really great books and he's, he's a Russia expert. He's very against like us being involved, NATO being more involved, until we absolutely have to. And I said, “well, what do you think would be, what would bring us to that moment?” And he said, “I think it's something we can't even predict. It will be kind of a black swan event that no one can predict, but it will be so horrible, you know, just one of these moments where NATO decides, we simply cannot set this out anymore.” 

But we can't just count just the tremendous humanitarian tragedy that we're seeing unfolding, just millions of refugees. And that's really hard for the countries on the border of Ukraine, of how to absorb them. But I know I sent you guys at a clip today that was some Ukrainian children entering an Italian school for the first time. And, you know, so you can imagine how they feel, their world has been turned upside down in a matter of weeks. But the whole school was there clapping for them and cheering for them and welcoming them.

And Jasmine, I remember when you and I got together for dinner, you were saying that your daughter, you know, was watching the news. Has she been talking about this, like what, what are her thoughts about what's going on? Has she talked to you about it? 

Jasmine: Yeah. I mean, she's afraid of just war in general. Cause you know, she's 13. So her idea of war is basically what she's seen on movies and you know, she's just kind of afraid of the worst possible scenario. And so I know on one of the episodes we talked about how our kids want to just know that they're safe and that's what I'm trying to provide for her while also being realistic that, you know, things are not great.

So yes, we are there's a war going on and, you know, yes, we should be concerned about what's going on, but right now she is still basically living pretty comfortably and she does not have the same way. As you know, the kids that she's watching on Tik Tok. 

Amanda: I think I did the opposite for one of my college students. When he was, he asked me, “I know you were in the military and you might know something about this, but you're not actually worried that Russia would like nuke us, right?” And I said, “Are you asking if I am concerned?” He said, “yes.” And I said, “no, I'm concerned about that right now.” Because I am, this might be the most I've ever personally been worried about nuclear war in my lifetime. And I was pretty honest about that and it, and it kind of took him aback that I was even worried about that at all. 

Jasmine: I’m worried about that too, actually, but I'm trying to not be worried about it, cause I literally have so much going on and I'm like, ugh, like I dunno if my little brain can handle much more anxiety at this point.

Amanda: Haha. Yes. Think about something else. 

Jasmine: Speaking of war, while, you know, we're talking about the threat of nuclear war and you know, how our children feel safe, I think also that here in America, we are feeling some, you know, tangible everyday life things when it comes to what's going on in Ukraine. And a lot of that has to do with gas prices. 

Now I will say I am a little bit annoyed with much we were talking about gas prices. I feel like it's actually, you know, taking over the new cycle just a little bit too much. One of the things I read on Twitter— and so Amanda, I'm leaning on you to answer this one— was that people are saying that oil prices are decreasing, but the price of gas is still going up. So is this like a credit score thing? Like, you know, it's really easy to like ding your credit score, but a lot harder to get it back up? Like what is the deal with there being, in my opinion, a disconnect between oil prices and fuel prices at the pump? 

Amanda: So the problem with prices that we pay at the pump is they can be what we call sticky. So it's really easy to increase prices, you can imagine companies, you know, do it with more ease than say, bringing prices down. And so it's not Biden setting these prices. 

And I do get nervous when we talk about gas prices, because the last time this happened in the oil crisis in the seventies, Nixon did put price controls. And what happened with the price controls? Yes, the price of gas went down, but then we waited two hours in line to buy gas. And if there's one thing that Americans hate more than high gas prices, it's waiting two hours for anything. Right. Look at a fast food market. We hate to wait. We hate gas prices, but we hate waiting even more than we hate high prices at the pump.

Rachel: You know, one thing that's really frustrating me, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene, like, bought Lockheed Martin stock before this crisis began in Russia. To me, her doing that should be absolutely be a story. Why are we not talking about this more? And again, I know I've said this a lot, but. I really feel like our leaders, both the president and, you know, our democratic leadership, really needs to go out and talk to people about what is going on and why this is happening and try to get buy-in because the Republicans are doing quite an about face on this.

So they were against, they were pro Putin. They were pro Russia. They took a bit of time to get on board and, you know, get, get on the same page, and now they're all about it. Why are we letting them control the narrative? And if I say this on Twitter, I just eviscerated if I make any comments, but honestly, why, why are we not pushing back? Why are we not controlling the narrative of something? The Democrats have done a really good job so far. And why are they not talking about this? But they're not. They're letting the Republicans be like, “oh, well look, we're, we're just letting people get slaughtered because we won't get involved more.” It drives me crazy.

Jasmine: We’re really bad at tooting our own horn. I don't know if it's like a fear that if we do then something bad is gonna happen or, or we don't want to appear like the other side. But I will say, while a lot of Republicans have done a bit of an about-face, I know here in Georgia, we passed a resolution, basically, you know, condemning what Russia has done, our— in our state, the chair of the Georgia Republican party has been tweeting out all types of pro-Russia, pro-Putin tweets, literally like yesterday. So he is really going all in on taking the side of Russia. He was also one of those fake electors though for the last election, so I'm not really sure exactly what his deal is, but I do not think he is pro democracy in any way. And I would love to see Democrats talk a lot more about the fact that, you know, we are doing a good job. 

Amanda: I think it also is like this whack-a-mole game where they constantly have this misinformation. You get Marjorie Taylor green, say like, Hey, you guys are profiting off of this. You guys just want to go to war.

Oops. I'm not going to tell everyone I just bought stock yesterday and Lockheed Martin. Right. And we also get like whack-a-mole with the really bad legislation they do all the time. So we have in Missouri, they were like, “Hey, we have issues with Russia and Ukraine and the most important issue is the economy” and you have Republicans in Missouri go, “okay, let's kill women with ectopic pregnancies. That's going to be our legislation.” 

Rachel: Oh my god. I have three ectopic pregnancies, by the way, this is something that's really near and dear to me. My first ectopic pregnancy, I knew I was pregnant and I lived in Germany. We'd been trying for a while, I’d had two miscarriages and we were seeing the facility doctor and I had to have emergency surgery. And in that surgery, my fallopian tube, they had to remove part of my fallopian tube and they had to do that to remove the pregnancy. The bill in Missouri would make that surgery illegal.

Amanda: So that you wouldn't die. 

Rachel: Yes. Right. Because otherwise it would rupture and I would die. So, so in the bill that would not be available.

Amanda: Because it would be an abortion.

Rachel: Right. Yeah. My second ectopic pregnancy, we lived in Ukraine, and then my third one, I lived in Russia—I only like to have like medical emergencies when I live outside the United States. And in Russia, they gave me a medication, but the medication would also be illegal. So all these forms, all these would be illegal.

And I tweeted about this and you know what the comments got to me most on Twitter—not, didn't get to me, don't get me wrong, trolls, yh, you can come at me if you want, but I don't care— but that was so stupid, it got me in terms of it's, it's just, it's lack of understanding. It said, “Well, if I moved to New York, I couldn’t buy guns. If I moved to California, then I would be taxed into oblivion. Different states, different rules.” That is not, that is a false equivalency. That is not an, I mean, I don't even feel like I need to explain this to someone, but literally you are talking about not saving someone's life. 

And I mean, Amanda, you shared with us this story. Can you tell us a little bit about the article that you sent us, about the woman in Texas and the ramifications? Cause that broke my heart. I mean, my husband couldn't even finish the article. I gave it to him and he was like, “just tell me, did she die?” He could not read the rest of it. 

Amanda: I know. Yeah. So in Texas, they have restricted abortion so much that a woman, her water broke on her wedding day, of a pregnancy she was keeping and wanted. Right. And it was so early, there was no chance the baby was viable at all. But they could not help her because it would be considered an abortion because there was still a heartbeat that was detectable. And so she had to make the choice of where to go to get an abortion. And they said you can't drive because if you go into labor in the car, you could very well die in the middle of nowhere in Texas, because Texas is a huge state, right? So you've got to fly. 

So she had to fly to Colorado to get an abortion because she could not get it in Texas to save her life because she had the risk of bleeding out or all of these other complications that happen. And before she got on the plane, the doctors taught her how to deliver her own baby, on the plane, just in case she went into labor on the plane.

Rachel: The trauma, the trauma of this already traumatic event, because I've, I mean, I went into early labor and Sarah was born at 24 weeks, which is like on the cusp of viability, but 25 weeks, they automatically resuscitate. At 24 weeks, the parents can make a decision. And really before 24 weeks—and I think this was like 19 weeks or something, this woman— there's really no nothing you can do. I mean, the massive trauma upon trauma because of a law. It is… I don't even have the words. I mean, it's cruel. It's, it's, it's a form of cruelty to say, “I have power over you. I can make you do whatever and I can pass laws and I'll never have to ever feel the ramifications for these laws because I am a man.”

Jasmine: You're right. The people who are writing and the people who are passing these laws think that they're sticking it to somebody. They're like, “oh, I got you now.” And they have, they do not care that this could cause someone their life. They do not care about the trauma, the physical trauma, the emotional trauma, the life-threatening trauma. That these types of bills. Cause they just do it. And then they pat themselves on the back. Like they give themselves applause when they do this as if they've done a good thing.

But you know, we talked about this on the last episode and I hope we do on every episode… this is an election year. And I really do hope that the 70%— I know here in Georgia, it's 70% of people do not want to see laws like this, and they have made that vocal. Well, we don't have 70% of Democrats in Georgia. We're very much on that 50/50 line. So that means that there are Republicans out there, mostly Republican women of childbearing age, who do not like seeing these laws because they understand nuance, they understand complexity. They understand, you know, menstrual cycles and pregnancy and all of the different things that all the things that the people who are writing these bills do not understand. If you have never had a period, you should not be writing bills about. Period. 

Amanda: Amen. 

Rachel: Amen. Preach. 

Amanda: I know I saw a poll that most Republicans in Texas don't agree with that law. Not most people— it's also most people—most Republicans don't agree with that law. 

Jasmine: Same in Georgia. 

Rachel: Stand up. I'm so mad. What are you afraid of? Stand up. You know, we were at this book festival this weekend, and so many people asked me, “how did you get through it? How do you do this? Your life was just thrown into chaos, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” I'm like, “what choice did I have? This is the only thing I could do.” When people in your state pass stuff like this, what choice do you have but to stand up and say, “I'm not going to stand for this. I'm not going to allow it for myself, I’m not gonna allow it for my younger cousin, my younger sister. And I sure as hell don't want it for my children, whenever, you know, cause I don't want to still be dealing this with this when my child gets to that age.”

You have to stand up, you have to take a stand for something. And that means every single one of us. We have that responsibility and we still have the power to change things. Don't think that you can't do it, or it doesn't matter, because it does. But when you see these stories like this in Texas, this, this should be a national story, what happened to this woman. Cause no one, there's no one who could read that story and not be like, “oh my God, this is not what we wanted to do. This is, this is not where we want it to go.” 

You can believe I sent that story to my ultra conservative sister-in-law. A hundred percent I did. And she read it and she was like, this is horrible. Heck yeah she did. Because she knows that's that's horrible. So we have got to share these stories. We've got to talk about it with people and we have to say like, even if you're very anti-abortion and very pro-life, we can not allow it to be taken this far. So that's, I'm sorry, off my soap box. But I stopped thinking that this is, this is just a fait accompli that it's not, it's always going to be like this. We still have the power. And we need to not have a defeatist attitude about it. 

Amanda: And there is a very conservative argument in there that we should not have the government telling us what to do with our lives and our bodies. Like, I think we kind of all kind of agree on that, but we somehow allow it more when it's women.

Jasmine: Everything else, you know, oh, get your hands off of my everything else. Except for women's bodies. But speaking of things that the governments have their hands on, let's talk about all the legislation when it comes to schools. Georgia is a mess. I don't know, how’s Ohio, Amanda? 

Amanda: I mean, same. We have divisive concepts bills where even I could not talk about divisive concepts. Like I teach about the economy. Literally gas prices are a divisive concept right now. Someone out there will say “that was divisive.” 

And it's such a terrible time. We're exhausted, like two years after a pandemic where we had to watch the failure of policymakers to deal with this pandemic. And we had to switch to virtual, hybrid, hybrid with a mask, hybrid without a mask. Right. And we have switched how we've done our entire classes. I've done it every semester for the last two years, completely changed up my classes. We’re exhausted. And now on top of this, instead of saying, “Hey, Oh, my God. You've had it bad for the last two years.” We're like, “how can we make it worse for you? I know, let's talk about what you do in class.”

Jasmine: I know! I know one of the best well speeches I've ever heard here in Georgia was a, one of the representatives Betsy Holland here in Georgia, she got up and she said, “y’all, did y'all did y'all forget how, when the pandemic first happened and everyone's kids were at home, three months or six months or however long, and we all had to basically step in and be, you know, a proxy teacher while they try to, you know, do zooms and all this stuff? And we all got a glimpse into what it takes to teach? Just our own kids, only our children in our house. We didn't have 29 other ones also that we were dealing with! And how much we all said we appreciated all the things that teachers have to do because we finally got a dose of their medicine?” We can't have both ways. We can't say our teachers are heroes and then turn around and call them the villains. Like, which one is it?

Rachel: And the result is many teachers are leaving and they're not waiting. They're leaving now. I mean, it used to be, teachers never quit in the middle of the year. That's because they usually left and went to other teaching jobs. They're not doing that. They are leaving teaching. They're leaving education altogether. And that's why they're leaving in the middle of the year. 

Amanda: Even before the pandemic, we had teacher shortages. I think our schools were very underfunded across the country. So how do you ignore those issues? These made up issues from CRT to trans bathrooms and trans kids in sports, right? You make up this issue so that you can try and take attention away from the real issues that we need to better fund our schools, that we need to better fund our teachers. There's a lot we need to fix in our schools, but CRT is not one of them. 

So let's hear from our round table of teachers. They’ve been through so much in the past few years and they're doing such a good job. I'm really looking forward to hearing from them. That discussion is coming up next after the break. 

BREAK

Beverly Batte: Hi everyone. My name is Beverly Batte and I am the executive producer of The Suburban Women Problem. We are having such a special panel for y'all today. With public schools at the center of so many firestorms, teachers have been dealing with a lot. We've got book bans, we've got anti-vaxxers, we've had virtual learning, and don't forget about all the issues that were facing public schools before the past few years.

So today we wanted to give a platform to teachers. We wanted to hear about their experiences trying to keep their students safe and give kids an honest education while in the midst of a pandemic. And we want to hear how we can support the amazing work that they're doing every day. So first we have Jessica. Jessica, could you tell us where you live and what you teach? 

Jessica: Yeah. Hi, I'm Jessica Berg. I am an English and Women and Gender Studies teacher in Loudon County, Virginia.

Beverly: In the thick of it. April, what about you?

April: I’m April, I’ve been a kindergarten teacher for 15 years in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. This year I'm taking a year out of my classroom because like so many people, COVID made me have to make a lot of strange and unexpected decisions. So I am not in my classroom this year, but it is there. And it's been my home for 15 years in kindergarten. 

Beverly: And Nicole?

Nicole: Nicole Sperry, I am a third grade teacher in Chesapeake.

Beverly: And last but not least, we have Jody. Where are you located and what grade do you teach, Jody? 

Jody: My name is Jody Glass and I teach in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I've taught 38 years and I've only ever taught fourth grade and I've taught in the same classroom for 33 years.

Beverly: So we're going to start kind of where we start a lot on this podcast, which is just a check in on how we're feeling. So, Nicole, let's start with you. Like, how are you doing, how are you feeling with teaching the school year? 

Nicole: So, you know, me a little bit more personally, so you know some of the things that are going on. So it's definitely been a struggle this year. My families and my kids, they’re awesome. But some families and people in our school district are very loud. And thankfully, like my school doesn't have too many like that, but now my district has made masks optional for students and now for staff. And so with me, with my personal things, it's a little bit more of a struggle because… it's a struggle and it's hard to trust that people are doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Beverly: Nicole, do you mind reminding our listeners who might not have heard the last episode, why your struggle a little bit with that?

Nicole: My ten-year-old daughter, my only daughter, passed away on September 27th from COVID. Um, she only had it for about five days before she passed. So that's why, like, some of this is a little bit, lots of anxiety, lots of long days, but my kids, like I have a great group. I have the EL, one of the EL classrooms. And so about half of my kids are Spanish speaking. And so a lot of my other kids, they're working to learn some Spanish to communicate because we have two students that are very low English speaking. So they're learning some Spanish to communicate with the other students, I'm learning Spanish, uh, they're starting to give me quizzes on, you know, random sentences to see how well I'm learning. 

Beverly: That’s amazing. I'm glad that at least with all of the darkness around that and the people who think they know best that you are finding those like silver linings. Jessica, how about you? How are you, how has teaching for you this year?

Jessica: I think what Nicole said was true, that it’s a struggle. With everything going on in Loudoun County, especially, it feels like not just the pandemic and masks and vaccination, but we've been fighting for books and against, you know, CRT bans and for our LGBTQ community and our transgender students. And every day, it feels like it's something new. And, and just to echo Nicole, it’s a very small group of parents, but they are very loud. And it just really does a lot to the mental and emotional wellbeing of book staff and our students.

And Nicole, I am so sorry for your loss. My God. I have a kindergartner and a four-year-old and I think that's one of the biggest things is when they were requiring us to come back. And then now they're, you know, same thing here, masks are optional. And my four year old is still not vaccinated because she can't be, and that realization that like, we have people in our lives that we are trying to protect, and that just doesn't seem to matter when a lot of these decisions and policies are made.

Beverly: And Jody, I'm really interested to hear from you as somebody who— you're in a, I don't want to say solidly red state, but a pretty red state. What are you seeing on the ground? 

Jody: We just literally got defeated HR Bill 1134. Which I know is worthless, knowing that—

Beverly: Hey, we are that we are those people. We like to know the bill numbers. So thank you. 

Jody: Okay. Well, there you go. So the bill stated that all teachers would have to have all lesson plans with all accompanying materials to the office for parent perusal by June 30th for the next school year. Like every day laid out. 

Beverly: Is that even feasible? Like physically?

Jody: No. Then they started saying there was too many words attached, like integration, like words that you weren't supposed to talk about. Integration, separation, racism, you know, lesbian, gay, you know, they had this whole list of things that aren’t supposed to be discussed. And I will tell you the whole bill got— it's done. It got squashed. Thank goodness. 

Beverly: April. I would love to, to go back. You mentioned that you have taken this year off, that you made the choice to step out of the classroom this year. Can you talk a little bit about that and you know, what led to that decision and yeah, just how you're feeling? 

April: Yeah, it's um, it was a very difficult decision. It was really unexpected. And I feel really very thankful and aware of how lucky I am that it was a decision and it was a choice that I made. Cause I see so many people who I'm close to, who I've, I've worked at my school for 15 years. I have worked with a lot of the same people for that long. And so they’re some of my closest friends and my coworkers and I, I'm still so connected to that community and to my friends. And I see what they're going through every day. I definitely feel a bit of survivor guilt right now to kind of be watching that and knowing how it feels.

You said at the beginning that, you know COVID sort of amplified what was going on in education before, and I'd say that's definitely true. Some of the difficulties that we've just sort of been watched sort of slowly creeping in the waters rose very, very quickly. So yeah, it's been a really strange year because I do miss that kindergarten joy every single day. You just can't get it anywhere else but in kindergarten. But I also hear from my colleagues who are some of the best teachers that I know that some of that joy isn't there anymore, and that's really crushing.

Beverly: Do you think you’ll go back?

April: I don't know, it's, I'm, I'm up in the air right now. I hope that I'll be able to find a way to, to be back. I definitely feel that I have unfinished business with me in public education and early childhood education. 

Beverly: I just asked because we're seeing it you know, in our community SWEEP, we see stories all the time of teachers that are just kind of done. Are you, as a body, like any of you worried about, I don't know, recruiting new teachers and retaining the teachers that we have? Are we facing a crisis with educators in this country? 

April: Very much so. I know the, I was not the only person to leave my school this year. And it’s taken months into the year to fill some of the positions that have been vacated. I know that our long-term substitute teachers are doing some really heavy lifting this year because there are still some positions that haven't been filled. And I know of, I know of at least three or four people who have been new hires who aren't planning to finish the year. They're already kind of saying “no, this isn't okay.”

Beverly: Where do you think that's coming from? Is it because of the parental environment, Jessica, do you think that it's everything up in the air? Like why, what is forcing teachers out? 

Jessica: I think it's a culmination of things. And then especially speaking here in Loudon, just being the epicenter of so many culture war issues, whatever you want to call it. And the fact that so much negative attitudes are being directed at teachers and not trusting us as professionals and what we teach and that we actually care for the health and safety and wellbeing of our students. We in Loudoun have seen more teachers like break contract mid year than ever before. My, my husband, who is a teacher for 17 years, just got a new job over winter break and left mid-year.

Beverly: With those of you that have been seeing book bans, anti-trans or anti LGBTQ stuff passed, you know, what are you seeing locally? What in your neck of the woods is that breaking point that people seem to be trying to exploit?

Jessica: Again, Loudoun seems to be just a microcosm of all these issues. And we had a book, Gender Queer, actually banned. Like I could not believe it, like actually pulled from our libraries. It was just unfathomable, like, this is the 21st century. With the ability to look back at history and see what that does, that we could be doing this in a county like Loudoun? And, and being an English teacher, it’s just absolutely ridiculous and demoralizing. 

And especially given the fact that most of the books that they're going after tend to be LGBTQ character centric or theme centric, the biggest thing I'm seeing is what it's doing to our kids, our students in that community, I'm like speechless. You know, I'm so angry at stuff like that. I'm speechless. Literally I'm an English teacher without a word. 

Beverly: English teacher rendered speechless. You heard it here first. 

Nicole, I know that you you're the children that you teach a little bit younger. What are you seeing in relation to that?

Nicole: So I haven't seen too much in my school. I have heard other schools that they've, you know, some parents have voiced concerns in the school district next to us, in Virginia Beach. They have been really vocal, especially after Loudoun, on book banning. And they're really going after those same sets of books. And they're like “it's pornographic” and all this other stuff. And so many of them have never even bothered to read them. There's a lot more on the TV, TikTok, YouTube. Banning doesn't work. 

Beverly: That’s my favorite thing about this is that they keep on coming after these books and it's like, your child has a smartphone. Oh my goodness. How little are you thinking about this? To think that they cannot get the same information and not as well curated, might I add, on the internet. 

But shifting focus a little broader, we have been ingesting a lot of news about the Russian invasion and Ukraine. Russia is notorious for censorship and blocking information from its citizens. And here in the states, we're seeing, like we've talked about, these divisive concept bills pop up or something like Don't Say Gay in Florida. It feels like a real attempt to ban knowledge. And it goes past just a book or two. April, where do you think this ends? Sorry, I think that’s a big question.

April: I'm not sure if I knew where it stops, but listening to Nicole and Jessica and Jody speak about what they're seeing, you know, in my district, I have also not seen specifically books banned. But there's an increasing reliance on this kind of desperation to just get some materials into the hands of teachers. And so increasingly lessons are prescribed and just straight out of a box. And our expectation as teachers is that, you know, the district loves it if their administrators can walk in your room and find you teaching the same lesson as your neighbor at the same time of the day with the same book and the same words in the same objective posted on the wall and you get praise for being in lock step. 

Jessica: Yes. The parallels are frightening. Again, you know, if we don't learn from history or even from current events, we’re repeating it. We’re not just doomed, we are repeating it. And to the question you asked of April, like, what will it take to fix this? I think it will take more of us speaking up. 

Because I do know, and I believe, you know, a lot of you are elementary school teachers and you know, I have juniors and seniors, and they give me so much hope and optimism. This next generation who is aware, who is out there advocating for different things and they're on it. And I think we are the majority. We just need to be vocal and organized and proactive and not come at it from a place of fear, which I know as teachers is hard and this cannot be put solely on teachers.

You know, I kind of wear three hats in my county where I'm like a teacher and I also am now a parent of a student and I’m a community organizer. And so I personally, you know, still have the same conversations in class that I have always had. Has there been a little voice in the back of my head on some days when I'm approaching a topic or teaching? Yes, but I'm like, you know what? I'm not going to let the fear of, of what a group of parents might say stop me from what I know as a professional is valued in this classroom. What teaches critical thinking. What stories engage. In the hopes that this then doesn't happen in the next generation. 

And again, it can't be solely left up to teachers because not all of us have that privilege or mental and emotional support in our communities to be able to do that. 

Nicole: A lot of them are scared. With everything that's happened to me, I'm like, “I don't care. I'm going to say whatever I want. Now the worst has been done to me.” But I've seen it plenty of times. They have been scared to say anything because they're afraid that they're not going to get their contract renewed or they're not going to be able to go where they want to go. They're afraid of repercussions and it's real. 

I see it in the group that I'm in. There is one person who will speak at the school board meeting. And if somebody has something that they want to be said, they will tell that person and she will go and say, “you know, and I'm hearing this and I'm hearing this.” Because they're scared. They're afraid that those angry parents are going to find them and retaliate. 

April: I just wanted to say Nicole, when you said that the fear is real, you know, that is so true. And I think so many teachers are afraid and we've all talked this evening about being small, but really vocal minorities of, of parents and right-wing people speaking and our districts sort of at a disproportionate level.

And we know that the majority of people don't agree. You know, but their voices are so loud and hateful at times and not telling the truth sometimes. And I think it's really hard to fight against that, but I think we have to, I think there's a whole lot on the line if we don't. 

And I think, you know, I've heard other guests on this same show talk about the idea of speaking for something as often, or even more, as you speak against something. You know, it's, it's fun to tell someone you like what they're doing. It’s fun to pass along positive feedback. And that stuff really matters. I know it matters in terms of telling the school boards and you know, leaders in the community, but I know it also matters to me as a teacher. Like I may not get negative feedback on a book that I've read, but I might not get positive feedback either. 

And so when you hear from parents that they want you to read this book to your class that might've been banned in another county, or they hear you having discussions about race and equity and politics in kindergarten in ways that answer the questions of little students who come to school and say, “What did I just see happening in the world? Can you help me understand that?” And to hear from parents who say “keep going,” it really encourages teachers to plan the next lesson and pick the next book and to keep chipping away at what we know is right. 

Beverly: That’s such a good point. And I would love to open that, that question up right there. It's just like, how can we better support teachers every day? As parents that have kids in public schools, like what, what can we do?

Nicole: If you are capable, volunteer in the school, reach out and help. Don't just complain. Be proactive, you know, maybe occasionally send in some hand sanitizer, send in this. Don't wait for us to ask for you to give us something. 

Jody: I also think I wish people would just be positive. Be positive about the public school, be positive about the world around them. You know, we have to look to the future and bring some positivity. And I really think it starts at home. 

Jessica: I would say I would really like more communication. And I think it's a little different, you know, when a lot of times when kids get to high school, junior and senior year, parents aren't as involved because the kids in a, in a good way, take a lot of ownership over their academics.

But I would be more than happy to share and talk about it. Like, like we all plan these things out. Our books are curated, these lessons are purposeful. And not so that I have to keep explaining myself. But then, so that parent is there out there in the community, parents talk to one another and then if someone's like, “well, no, you know, I know Ms.Berg, or I know, Ms. Anderson, this is what they're doing in the classroom. And you know what? My kid had a great experience. I think that could just do so much for both the atmosphere and the reciprocation for teachers. 

Beverly: Yeah. And that's hard too, when, I mean, everything seems so negative, right? Like how do we get to where we have a positive frame again, for teachers? It seems like, I don't know when it changed where it seems like teachers became the enemy in the public discourse and not the backbone of society. So we're coming up on time, but before we go, I just wanted to open the floor up. Just, is there something that a point that we didn't get to or something that you just wish people understood about what it's like to be teaching right now? 

Jody: The amount of testing. First of all, the kids are just overwhelmed. You know, I almost don't tell them anymore. “Oh, another test.” That's the biggest thing I hate—I mean, honestly, I'll use the word hate— that I hate about teaching right now is standardized testing. 

April: And with standardized testing, I mean, there is not a teacher, a parent, there's nobody who wants a kid to fail a test. Nobody wants that, but standardized tests are created using mathematical principles that will make a bell curve so people fail. Failure is baked in to these. And then when kids aren't all able to show passing scores on tests because tests are designed so that not everybody can pass the standardized tests, then there's blame. And there's dog whistling of, you know, our failing schools and we're failing the children. And, you know, sure it feels personal as a parent when your kid comes home and they haven't passed the test, you wonder if they're going on to the next grade level. What we've chosen to measure success is completely at odds with what we actually want to be accomplishing in the schools. And there's just more and more and more of it.

Jessica: I feel like this could be an entire episode. 

Beverly: I’m ready for the entire episode about standardized testing. Are you kidding? I'm like taking notes right now! So, okay. Well next episode, what we're going to do is we're going to solve standardized testing. Next time we have a teacher's panel. I am ready for it. I want to say thank you to all of y'all for doing this with us today. It has been eye opening for me personally. And I'm I'm sure to our listeners. So I just want to say thank you so much for, for coming and we'll see you next time. 

Jody: It was really nice meeting everybody. 

April: It was nice to meet all of you! Thanks!

BREAK

Amanda: All right. Welcome back everyone. It was so great hearing the teacher's perspective on everything that's been going on, and there is some good news in the media. when we hear that anti-CRT bills like in Indiana failed to pass. In a red state of Indiana because, you know, following, I think it was following a teacher's testimony.

We had basically a representative say like basically what they meant by the anti-CRT bill and what they meant was, let's teach both sides of the Holocaust. Right? The good and the bad. We have to teach both sides and that was too far or the red state of Indiana. And it crushed that bill. 

Rachel: Well, I think it, it's, it's a massive grassroots effort and it's a great example of the power that we have to use our voice and at the Tucson Festival of Books, Alex was on a panel and a couple of times they asked the question of people feeling like, it just seems like it's rigged. I mean, that's actually what they said, “rigged.” You know, there's massive amounts of money. I mean, it's easy to feel like it's all rigged and there's nothing we can do, but that's not true.

And Alex's response I thought was so great. He said, “I've lived in places where voters don't have a choice. We still have one here. If we use it.” And this bill, when I read that news, that's what I thought of. Is there is still power when we speak up. So use your voice. And this was a beautiful example of that and a place where people might not expect it. It's still possible. So don't lose hope. 

Jasmine: Yes. Celebrate those small victories. I talk about that a lot. If you don't celebrate the small ones, it's easy to lose hope and think that you can’t make any meaningful change. And so celebrating the small victories primes you to celebrate the big victories like this one, where the messaging is finally getting to the other side of like, “wait a minute. I don't want to be on the side of teaching the other side of the Holocaust.” No one is going to be on the side of teaching why Hitler might not have been such a bad guy. And if you do then, yeah, that's really not something you want to campaign on. 

Amanda: There is a right and a wrong, and our teachers should be able to say that, right. Sometimes we know this is right and this is wrong. And I think we should also create a culture where we celebrate teachers. I think we have, after the Vietnam war and how people treated our military members during that, I think we really changed how we treat our military members. That even if we don't agree with the conflict that they're in, we still respect the sacrifice they're making for our country.

But our teachers are also serving our country. They are serving our children and I think they deserve the same level of respect. And I think we need to honor the service that they bring in the classroom every day. And I think we need to find ways to support our teachers. 

So we were out and about one time and a teacher happened to come up and see us in the community. And she came up to me and immediately just started crying. And I was like, “oh my gosh, what happened?" And she just said, “it meant so much to have someone in the community vocally supporting teachers,” because she was feeling like nobody actually was supporting the teachers in our community. And just to have one person or have a few people stand up in a meeting and say, “we know you're working really hard. And even if you're not perfect, you're working really hard and you're really good at what you do. And we appreciate the sacrifice you're making and we appreciate your service." And that alone was enough to make her cry when she saw me. 

And I think that is really telling of how we don't have the culture have the respect I think we should have for our teachers. So before we go, we would like to leave you with something positive, a toast to joy, something good that happened to us or something positive that we saw on the news this week. So Jasmine, why don't you start us off? What's your toast to joy this week? 

Jasmine: This probably sounds silly to people listening to the episodes are probably like, yeah, whatever. That's really dumb. I won't say dumb, I will say it probably seems very simple. But I got another day of just like being able to kind of relax. And so last weekend it was really cold here in Georgia. I hibernate when it's cold. So I had a day of literally just sitting in the house doing absolutely nothing. 

I looked at the vacuum. I looked at it real hard. I thought about it. And I said, no, I'm not going to even do that. And I loved it. I appreciate my opportunities to hibernate, especially ahead of a really tumultuous week. So this week in Georgia we'll have crossover day we'll likely be in session till midnight. And so the weekend prior to that I think was the perfect time for me to hibernate. So I feel rejuvenated. I am feeling I'm feeling good. I needed that day and yes, the vacuum had to take a break for a day and that's fine. It will, that dust will still be here tomorrow. All right. Uh, so what about you, Rachel? What's your toast to joy? 

Rachel: I have had a week where there's a lot of things that could be a toast to joy. I was able to meet one of m heroes this past weekend, Representative Adam Schiff, and that was amazing. I'm able to enjoy a lot of sun in Arizona. 

But my number one toast to joy is seeing my nieces who are here and my brother and his wife, one of my brothers and his wife. And it totally reminds me of who I am and where I'm from. And that is what always recharges me. You know, my brother raising his children and me raising my child in such a full circle moment. It's just amazing. And I cherish every moment that I get to be with my family. So that's my toast to joy,

Amanda: I love that. I feel like you can be your most authentic self sometimes when you see your family.

Rachel: Absolutely. When we pulled up last night, I told Ellie, I said, “can you go inside and get my brother and tell him to come out and help us with the, with the bags?” And Alex was like, “seriously, Rachel?” And I was like “what's the point in being a big sister, if you don't have the ability to you know, play that card?” And he came out because he knows I'm in charge, I'm still in charge. That's how it is. 

Jasmine: I love that. Also a big sister, agree, 100%. Big sister card totally works every time. 

Amanda: Also a big sister. Hey, we're all big sisters!

Rachel: There might be something to that! 

Amanda: All right. So I knew we were going to be talking about teachers today and I was sitting here thinking about how much the teachers have meant to me in my life. And I don't think I'm very good at thanking people in the moment. I just am more like a sit back and take it all in type of person. And I am working on that. But I was thinking about how much teachers have said little things at the time, I don't think they know how impactful it was to me. From having a teacher in middle school who pulled me aside and just say, “do you know you're good at math?” And I didn’t. 

And having a teacher in high school pull me aside and said, “I got you a scholarship to college because of your math score on some test” and having a math professor in college say, “you need to think about grad school. And I know you're not.” And like even just those three instances were three instances where I don't know that those teachers know that they really changed my life and they changed the course of my life forever. And even when they happened, I didn't know they were doing that. I didn't know how big of a deal it was. I didn't know that this would like stick with me as one of those like core memories you see in, you know, Inside Out, but it did.

And so my toast to joy today is to the teachers and all the moments where you are changing the course of a student's life, even when you don't know it. And I really appreciate all that our teachers do for us. So on that note, thanks so much to everyone for joining us today. We'll see you next week on another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.