So Many Fires, So Few Buckets (with Connie Schultz and Taylor Lyons)

On today’s episode, Rachel Vindman, Jasmine Clark, and Amanda Weinstein talk about how overwhelming everything has been feeling lately. There are so many fires to put out and we can only carry so many buckets. They talk about the absurd GOP antics at Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson’s confirmation hearings, Biden’s remarks about Ukraine, and how we can redirect the national conversation while still whacking all of those right-wing “whack-a-moles.”

Then TN mom Taylor Lyons joins the pod to talk about her work with Chattanooga Moms for Social Justice. Taylor's organization has organized a banned book fair, provided books for libraries in underserved communities, held a workshop for parents of trans kids, and had difficult but important conversations with their neighbors. Taylor is basically an all-around super mom-- and her adorable baby even makes her presence known!

After that, Jasmine sits down with one of our favorite humans on the planet, Connie Schultz. They talk about how to stay hopeful and engaged, how to lean into love, how to put down our buckets once in a while, what advice she'd give her younger self, and who she’d cast as her husband in the movie version of their life.

Finally, our hosts raise a glass to family and to Spring Break in this week’s “Toast to Joy.”

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

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Transcript

The Suburban Women Problem - SEASON 2, EPISODE 11

Jasmine Clark: Hi everyone, I’m Jasmine Clark. 

Rachel Vindman: I’m Rachel Vindman. 

Amanda Weinstein: I’m Amanda Weinstein. 

Jasmine: And you're listening to The Suburban Women Problem. Today we have one of our favorite human beings, Connie Schultz, joining me on the pod to talk about literally everything, but mostly about how hard and overwhelming everything feels right now. It was bad enough with the pandemic and book bans and everything else, but now we have a war in Ukraine to worry about too. It's just a lot. And before my conversation with Connie we’ll be joined by Taylor Lyons, a mom in Tennessee who co-founded Chattanooga Moms for Social Justice. But before we get to all that, Rachel and Amanda, are you as overwhelmed as I am feeling right now? 

Amanda: Oh, I feel like there's a lot going on right now. We have so much to talk about. I think we should start with, uh, Judge Jackson. 

Jasmine: I’m going to be really honest and say, I could not even watch. I've been through this in my real life. And I just anticipated how they would treat her. And I think for my own mental health, I kinda decided I couldn't. I was a hundred percent expecting them to be on their worst behavior and apparently they did not disappoint. And so I really only watched like little pieces of it. I didn't watch everything. It’s just like, sometimes you have to just decide like what you allow into your space. And I just couldn't allow that into my space. So I am glad that there were some senators who stood up for her. Um, I heard that, uh, Cory Booker, for example, really like stood in the gap and said what needed to be said. 

Amanda: Yeah, he did. I think he had to go at the end or he was close to the end because like we needed that. Like everybody needed to hear his words and he is so inspirational. So to hear him say, like, I know what it's taken for you to sit in that seat. You have earned this spot. You are worthy. And you saw her tear up. You could really see like she needed, we needed that, like having support when you need support and they're trying to just tear you down. Or some of it, they weren't even trying to tear her down. They were just trying to tear the country down and she just happened to be the one sitting there.

So having Cory Booker say those things was so nice to just, you could feel the light start to come back in that room when he said that. I loved it. 

Rachel: And I think that it was not just, you know, reaffirming to her, but to anyone, as you said, anyone who's ever been in that situation. I mean, I cried. Because their goal in so many ways was not to talk to Judge Jackson. It was to, as someone said on Twitter, it was for soundbites for Fox News. That's what they were doing. That's all they cared about it. It was very obvious. They were dismissive and demeaning to her, of course, but what they were really trying to do was just get the soundbite so they can have a clip on Fox News. And I got to tell you, it's just disgusting. 

Amanda: Ted Cruz was the best example of that with his anti-racist baby tirade. Like, all right, let's be clear. I'm a math person. So I know what a double negative is. So if Ted Cruz is anti anti-racist baby, then that makes Ted Cruz a racist baby. Right? Like it was just ridiculous. And I love that Judge Jackson was like, I don't deal with this in my job. Like I was like, yes, get it girl! She's like, you know what? We don't talk about baby books, right? This is not what we're going to do on the Supreme Court. And she knew exactly what they were doing. And he was doing exactly what you said, Rachel. He was like trying to get a sound bite and she's like, thank you for your soundbite. This is not what I do in my job. 

And also he was just flat out wrong. He's like, oh, you know, basically kids can't be racist. Babies can't be racist. But we know, because on our show we had Melinda Wenner-Moyer who said that babies as young as six months show a preference, a racial preference for the same race as their caretakers. Right. So that doesn't make the baby racist, but it does show they have racial preferences and you need to start having these conversations has early as six months. So he's just flat out wrong to begin with. Being flat out wrong so they can get a soundbite of him being flat out wrong.

Rachel: But it's for hate, it’s all for hate. This is, this is their currency, hate and anger. Yesterday I attended an event with, uh, Adam Schiff and, um, he spoke for a little bit, and then he and Alex talked together about Ukraine and other issues, but he talked about, we are going to get through this. And he also said— and you guys will love this, music to our ears—we've got to talk about what we've done. We have to talk about this. Stop talking about everything else. Stop chasing the rabbit trails. We got to have this like laser focus from now until November. Talk about the wins. Talk about what this administration has done that makes lives better. 

And I will say, my husband and I, we don't love everything that the Biden administration has done. I mean, I don't think, I don't know anyone who does, because I think it's impractical to love everything they've done. Even if you work in the administration, you're not going to like it because even in the administration, there's compromise. Cause that's how democracy is. Right? 

Amanda: Yeah. I love my husband, but I don't love everything he does. 

Rachel: Right. 

Jasmine: Same with my children. 

Rachel: Oh yes. But you know, but, but seriously, this is the focus that the Republicans have that we need to have. 

Jasmine: Well, I will say a part of that is just what gets covered. And I know that we keep talking about that, you know, if you were to follow, uh, the President's Twitter account or whatever, he's always talking about all the things that he's done and it doesn't get picked up. A good example of this is, you know, on the same day that the President was giving his speech in Warsaw, I believe, he's giving a speech and people are listening intently because he is basically like bringing back the honor to the office of the President of the United States.

At the same time that was happening, Donald Trump was in Georgia giving a, a rally and, uh, he was introducing his seven candidate slate of people that he's endorsed here in Georgia. Most of the people that he's endorsing with the exception of like one or two are polling really far behind. And that's what got our news. That's what made our news. So again, the President is literally doing an amazing job and getting the respect of the world. But for some reason he's not getting that same respect right here. 

Amanda: And when he was in Poland, like the thing that got covered here that I saw at covered about his trip in Poland was, you know, the supposed gaffes he made, right. Talking about how like, we don’t, the world doesn't need Putin as a leader anymore. And let's be honest. That's what most of us are thinking right now. Most of us are thinking Putin should not be a leader anymore. It's stupid to call it a gaffe. 

Rachel: I was very disappointed that the White House was walking it back.

Jasmine: I think that is a difference between the administration that we have now and the administration that we had before. Trump would say all types of ridiculous stuff that should have never ever been said and like quadruple down on wrong. He would just make it wrong, wrong, wronger and then wrongest like, that is what he would do. And there are certain people that saw that as a strength. And I do think there is strength in choosing your words wisely. But I also think that there is a way to acknowledge that maybe what, how it was received might not have been how it was meant to be said without appearing weak. 

Amanda: So I actually loved Kamala Harris in the debates when they were talking about stacking the court. And she was like, yeah, let's have that conversation. And it felt like she can play this whack-a-mole game where like that mole pops up and like, I'm going to whack that mole. And then we're going to have the conversation I want to have. 

So in Ohio, we have a divisive concepts bill, like they have in a lot of states, and one of the main sponsors who has never attended public school herself and has no kids in public school confirmed that the bill will require teachers to teach both sides of the Holocaust. And by both sides, we mean how the Holocaust could be good and how Germans were actually right, right? That would be, you know, the other side of it. This bill is ridiculous and it's put forth by someone who has no knowledge of schools. 

It’s like, you want to talk about the public schools? Let's have that conversation, right? Let's talk about teacher shortages. Let's talk about teacher pay. There's so much to talk about that we need to be better at whacking the mole and then having the conversation adults need to be having right. 

Jasmine: And actually on that note, I think this is a perfect time to bring in our guest this week. Hi Taylor. Thanks for joining us. 

Taylor Lyons: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here and speak with you all, or I'm coming to you from Tennessee so let me invoke our patron Saint Dolly Parton and say, I'm excited to speak with y'all. 

Jasmine: I love it. I'm from Georgia, Georgia born and raised, and I went to school in Tennessee, so y’all is literally a part of my vocabulary. So last week we had Julie Womack on the pod and she told us about your banned book fair, which I thought was amazing. So tell us more about this fair. How did it go? 

Taylor: Yeah, it was an incredible event. Joyful, uh, attended by a wide representation from all parts of our community. We had, we had kids, we had adults, we had college kids. We had speakers representing all, all parts of our community, clergy people, students, teachers, activists. It was beautiful. It was just a celebration of inclusive and diverse literature. We, we really wanted an opportunity to, to give a community response to the really ugly and negative attempts to ban books that have been, uh, really sweeping the nation. But, uh, our community in particular seems to be determined to make national news. 

Amanda: I love that you did that. Cause I think you guys also had a book burning in your state. Am I right? Yeah. And that went super viral and I wish that more people would talk about people like you and what you're doing. And that on the other side of that are even more parents who aren't burning books, but are instead highlighting the beauty of these books. So I love that you did this banned book fair. It's so cool. 

Taylor: So I'm not just a parent. I'm also the co-founder and the community outreach director for a social activist organization in my community called Moms For Social Justice. Our mission is exactly what it sounds, where we're a social, uh, activist organization that does a variety of events around our community. And honestly, we were really able to skate under the radar for the first couple of years, doing things, you know, in the south that could be considered controversial. We would have never imagined that our non-partisan initiative, which was called the classroom library project, would have been the thing that would get us to be the, the, you know, the center of such controversy. 

Back in 2018, we started this initiative to put classroom libraries into each of our schools, which were known as the opportunity zone, which is a polite way of putting our under resourced under funded schools. We crowdsourced for those first couple of libraries. And then we were fortunate enough to get a $25,000 grant, which allowed us to go nuts with buying books. But as an organization, it was important to us not to just give any books. We wanted to give books that represented the students who would be reading them.

So we specifically put in titles with authors of color, queer affirming storylines, Spanish titles, et cetera, et cetera. We really wanted kids to feel represented by the book choices they would have. Now we were able to do that for a couple of years with it being non-partisan support community support.

It wasn't really until around eight months ago, when this, you know, far right movement to go after books, uh, really put our organization and our community under, you know, fierce attack because of it. All of a sudden it became this “liberal organization trying to indoctrinate students with liberal literature.” It's very unfortunate. Part of the reason we did that, uh, celebration that celebratory event last week was so to flip that narrative.

Amanda: That’s awesome. You got to be like Oprah and like you get a book and you get a book! That is so cool. 

Taylor: Well, we like to say that intellectual freedom is not a partisan issue.

Rachel: But that's incredible that you, you were operating for a while before it was an issue. It only became an issue whenever it was highlighted as being a problem. But before you had just been, you know, a great organization that worked in the community and no one had a problem with you. I mean, you are— actually, I'll ask you. Why, why do you think that is? What do you think set them off? Was it people who went from supporting you to not supporting you or just random people who came in and attacked you?

Taylor: Yeah. Well, you know, what's so interesting is for those first couple of years, we had people who would come to us and volunteer for the project or even give money to the project. And they would say to us “now we don't align with everything that you guys stand for, but we can get behind giving books to kids. So here's a check.” Or “here I want to, I want to volunteer and put in a library.” 

It wasn't until I’d say at the beginning of the summer, when our organization came to the school board to present basically the results of the project— “Hey, we told you we were going to do this. We completed it. We put 17 classroom libraries in, in our county schools.” And because, uh, I used some of the buzzwords that they think are so scary, like “inclusive literature,” “racial equity,” “social justice,” it really kind of tipped them off to take a look at our book list. Because I will say that we were 100% transparent with the books that we put in the classrooms. We certainly weren't, uh, trying to secretly indoctrinate our kids with, with racial justice and social justice. 

Amanda: So, Taylor, you also went a little viral recently with a video of you talking about book bans at a school board meeting. What were you responding to in that meeting? And why do you think it went viral?

Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. So who knows? What I do think is that people have been listening for months now, uh, parents going into the school board meetings and making outrageous accusations at our educators. So, um, to be, to be quite frank with you, we were just white, hot righteously angry. And I, I got up and said very forcefully, “no one is putting pornography on our library shelves. No one is grooming children with books. It's as absurd as it is offensive.” 

And I think for a lot of people, it was just a relief to hear that said out loud. I cannot even tell you how many, and I'm a little postpartum so forgive me if I get emotional, but I cannot tell you how many librarians and teachers reached out to me, secretly thanking me for saying that and defending them because they cannot publicly defend themselves for fear of their jobs. And quite frankly, some of them are even afraid for their own safety. And that that's a real statement where we're at in this country that we have librarians afraid for their safety. 

Amanda: We had the same thing here with our mayor accusing our school of grooming kids. And we had our school board get really severe death threats for a time. They even had to close down our building because they thought they were legitimate enough that, um, that they would be harmed. And so we had school board members just in their homes wondering like, would someone show up at my house?

So I know you've also spoken about not underestimating kids and what books and topics they can handle. I would love to hear more about that. 

Taylor: Yeah. You know, I have a nine-year-old and it has been just so astounding to me as a mother to see how fantastically capable my child is with having nuanced conversations about really tough topics. You know, I'll, I'll give you a story quickly. He came home last week and said that they were talking about explorers. And, um, you know, I'm not gonna lie, living in Tennessee, I took a deep breath, preparing myself for the conversation of, “well, you have to respect your teacher, but also that's bullshit." 

But he told me they, they spoke about, uh, they were talking about Christopher Columbus and they read this book called Encounter. And I asked him about it and Encounter is written from the perspective of a young Taino indigenous boy and what his, his perception of, of these people invading his land and taking his people and taking his resources and you know, it was just beautiful to me to see my nine-year-old child have a, a very, uh, beautifully complex conversation about, you know, what, what we collectively probably experienced when we were growing up as a very whitewashed version of that story. You know, he, he carried it off with, uh, with beautiful understanding. Our kids are so capable of these conversations. 

Jasmine: I love that. 

[Baby cries.]

Amanda: Oh, are we going to get a baby shot? Oh, I know if you're listening, you can't see it, but we are looking at a cute little baby right now. 

Jasmine/Rachel: Awwwww!

Taylor: She was our surprise pandemic baby.

Amanda: That is so cute. So you are in Tennessee. Red, not blue. You're not, there’s no blue bubble there. And I think you have a really interesting background to talk to people who might not think like you. Can you tell us something a little bit about the conversations that you've had with people who maybe don't start off agreeing with you?

Taylor: You know, as the, as the community outreach person in my organization, I’m frequently speaking with people across the aisle. And I say “we can talk all day long about things we don't agree on. What I'm interested is the spaces where we meet.” And I have found, if you spend enough time with people, you will find places on which you agree. Especially as parents, even with these people that we vehemently disagree with, ultimately we all want what's best for our kids. We may have very different visions on how to get there, but we have the same goals. 

So it's been interesting over the, over the course of the last four years to have moms come to us, uh, coming from a place of deep religious conviction and, and conservative backgrounds starting to open their viewpoints to, to seeing a different perspective. It's really a beautiful thing to see. One of the events I'm most proud of is we had a workshop that we hosted and helped facilitate with parents to how to speak to their trans children.

Jasmine: Oh wow. 

Taylor: And we had a couple of parents tip toe in the back door and they didn't say anything to anybody for the longest time, terrified to be there because it was so against everything they've ever been taught and ever believed. But they love their kids. And they wanted to figure out how to have a conversation about what their child is going through. And to, to watch that transformation happen and to watch their relief, to know that they weren't alone in their community, in this deeply conservative community, is one of the most powerful things I've ever witnessed. And we remain deeply proud of that. 

Amanda: It probably so important for their children. You have high suicide rates and you have these struggles so having like parents who can then talk to their kids, oh man, you're already going to make me cry.

Jasmine: Amanda’s our crier. 

Amanda: And I'm not postpartum, so I don't have an excuse! But I mean, that, that can be, that could be potentially life saving and life changing to have a parent who could have otherwise even not talked about it. Right. So then to be able to have the conversation, a tough conversation, right, is so important for those kids and those parents and those families.

Taylor: 100%. 100% and bringing it back to the books, that’s why we felt so convicted about putting a books with queer affirming storylines, uh, trans affirming storylines in our classroom libraries. We do live in the deep south. And if reading a book is the only way a child feels seen and affirmed, then that it's possible that that's not just a book. That could be some kids lifeline. So they, you know, this name calling, this bullying that we're experiencing here, they will never make us not proud. They will never make us ashamed for putting those titles in the classroom library. 

Jasmine: Yes. I love that so much. Well, it sounds like baby said that she wants her mommy back. So, uh, thank you so much Taylor for joining us. And how can people learn more about your organization? 

Taylor: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, you can find us, uh, at Moms for Social Justice on Facebook, on Instagram, on Twitter. 

Jasmine: Thank you, Taylor. And now we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll have my conversation with Connie Schultz.

BREAK

Jasmine: Our guest today is one of our favorites on The Suburban Women Problem. She's the author of the novel The Daughters of Erietown and the memoir And His Lovely Wife. She's also a Pulitzer prize winning journalist and the writer of a column in the USA today. Connie Schultz, welcome back to The Suburban Women Problem.

Connie Schultz: Thank you, Jasmine. Thanks for the invitation. 

Jasmine: Absolutely. We always enjoy having you on the show. So let's jump right in and start with kind of a big question. I don't know about you, but for me, everything right now feels overwhelming. Like we've had the pandemic, uh, we've got booked bans going on, there’s literally an entire war happening in Ukraine. How do we stay hopeful and engaged in this moment where everything just feels like it’s just so big? 

Connie: Well, you're right. It is overwhelming. And I've been thinking about this a lot in the last few minutes in part because I'm hearing this from so many people, particularly women, of course. 

I think it's really important that we decide where we can make the biggest difference and focus our talents and our energy. If we look at the vast scope of everything that's going on, we can feel helpless pretty quickly, right? We could also feel exhausted, but if we can pick an issue or two that really matters to us, for example, if it's book banning and you're worried about what your local school board is doing, that's where you invest your energy, right. To educate the public, to talk with state legislators. I mean, Ohio certainly has that going on right now. But the key to me is to find your place and stake your claim and then build out from there. 

Jasmine: I feel like I'm one of those people that whenever I see a fire, I want to run and put it out. But when there's so many fires, I realized that I'm just running all around with all these, uh, buckets. And there's just not enough water to put out all the fires. And last season, when you were on the show, we asked about one of your great quotes and it's, our energy is like a bank account. And we can spend only so much of it in any given day, so we need to invest it wisely. With everything that's going on in the world and in our country, what feels like a wise investment of your energy right now? And how has that changed over the past year? 

Connie: Oh, that's quite a question. Part of my energy expenditure is devoted to conversations like this with women like you and to your larger community of women. I've always had this sense of urgency about women and what women need. But the older I get, the more aware I am across generations, right? And that you, oh, you've heard me talk many times about how we need to carry as we climb. And part of what my carrying is now is to make sure that I'm helping with, um, to create and participate in forums that enlarge and elevate the voices of women, particularly women who haven't necessarily had those microphones.

For me personally, I have found that I'm like you, lots of buckets, pretty easy to do. And people get used to you being the person who's going to take another bucket. Right? But if I stand back and balance, just how effective I'm being, it's diminished returns after a point. And it's very hard for me to say no, but I'm getting better at saying “not now.” It doesn't mean I don't care about what you're asking of me. I can't do it right now because my students have to be a priority. 

As you know, I'm a professor in residence. I teach two days a week at Kent State, my alma mater, but it's always so much more than that because it's students and it's students who are, who have been in a pandemic for two years. The writing matters to me a great deal. I have to be very flexible with my column. Like this week I weighed in on Deshaun Watson, that horrible trade that the Browns made. And I thought I'm going to write it early, be done for the week. 

And then, um, the beloved Madeline Albright has died. And my editor reached out and said, “can you write about her tomorrow?" How could I not? She's an historical figure that I think we are losing a bit, we may be losing sight of, because we have so many women in big positions now. Right? And I want us to remember a moment when she was the big deal, period. 

So I have to pace myself. I've got a couple of books in the works, but the most important thing for everybody is listening, including you, Ms. Jasmine, is carving out time for yourself. We so easily feel guilty if we are for even a moment idle or doing something to take care of ourselves. I say this over and over again. I'm going to say, it should be on my tombstone. “She said, you need a break.” Right? You need a break. 

And, um, we've used the metaphor before about holding the note as they do in choirs and bands. When there are long notes, you can't sing all the way through and we do staggered breathing. And sometimes it's gotta be your turn to take a breath and we'll hold the note until you return. And the more we think like that in a sense of community and holding one another up and keeping one another strong, I think the more readily perhaps we will allow ourselves that moment, that time to take a breath.

Jasmine: Yeah. Oh my goodness. I really needed to receive that right now because I, like you, also teach. Along with teaching twice a week we have been in session. We are currently still in session. So I'm teaching, I'm in session, and it's not like this has been the easiest session because we’ve got some really bad bills coming through and we’re just trying to constantly play defense to stop these really bad things from happening. 

Everything that you just said, I felt like I felt all of that. I do think it's important for me to remember that in a community or in our choir, that sometimes it is my turn to take that breath. And then I get back in, so someone else can take their breath. And so collectively the note is held, but everyone is still getting their opportunity to take their breath. And I think I forget that sometimes. I think I do try to hold the note the entire time and just tell myself I can do this. I can do this. It's just not sustainable. 

Connie: It’s not. You've made me think of something else that we ought to talk about. I'm older than many of the women who are going to be watching this. I'm older than you, I'm in my sixties. Right? I wish I had comprehended this a lot earlier. There is this fear you can have when you're ambitious and you're trying to get a lot done that if you start saying no, people will quit asking. I'm here to tell you that is not true. There will always be another request. 

I experience this as a writer a lot. Should I say no to this assignment if somebody wants me to write this? If you can't give it your best effort, if it's just going to stress you out so much that other things you care about are going to suffer, you can say no. And it doesn't mean that you won't have more requests, more invitations down the road. 

Jasmine: Well, I definitely received that as well. Cause I do think I have that fear. I do think I have the fear that if I stop moving, then people are going to just move on from me. And, um, I think that, uh, that's a fear that we all have. I think not only is it a woman thing, I think kind of an American thing where we kind of feel like we constantly have to be exhausted. And that's some type of badge of honor. And I really wish that we can move away from exhaustion being the goal and be okay with not being exhausted. 

Connie: Exactly. And what you were just talking about people walking by if you stop, think of it another way. That you are being a role model for how that looks. You're, you're not giving up, you're giving yourself a break for just, uh, you know, whatever time you need. And maybe we need to be talking about that more. When we say we can't do something, maybe we need to explain it. I mean, we don't know big explanations to people about our lives, but it could be very helpful sometimes to say, “you know what, I'm going to take a pass on this right now. I have got to give myself some downtime and I hope you're finding some downtime for yourself too.”

Jasmine: Sometimes my Toast to Joy is literally I did nothing. And it's like, you know, that might seem small to some people, but that's actually a really big deal to me to say, like I did absolutely nothing. I did not crack open a laptop. I just sat around and did nothing. So I cherish those moments.

You recently wrote a column about a Ukrainian girl that was singing in a bomb shelter. And I know that since then, she's gone on to like sing in front of very large crowds in Poland. But when you wrote that column, you said every person fighting for Ukraine, every family ripped apart by this war, they grieve because they love.

It can be kind of tough to lean into love when you've got those people out there that are just so hateful. So how can we be tough and fight back while also leaning into love and still loving people? 

Connie: This is an important question. I would never suggest that we're supposed to feel love for the people who are bringing deliberate harm to people we care about. Right? When I talk about love in that column, what I'm addressing is the universal language that regardless of our dialects or where we live, we all can understand how love can motivate us to do things that make us bigger and braver than we ever thought we could be. 

For me, it helps to remember that sure, Marjorie Taylor Greene is a hateful politician who is taking every top opportunity she has to inflict greater harm. I don't have to love her. I just don't need to hate her. When I think about what I love and who I love, the way I respond to people like that is to lift up the ones I am fighting for. Sherrod and I talk about this a lot at home. That it's not, it's not helpful for us and it's not healthy to think about what we're fighting against. It's who we're fighting for. And that helps keep us focused. 

And it keeps me focused in my column writing. I mean, when I wrote about Deshaun Watson this week, I was writing for the 22 women who have accused him. And all the other women, all the survivors, not just women, the survivors of sexual abuse and rape, who are wondering, when are we ever going to value them and their stories when the owners of the Cleveland Browns are paying $230 million for this man? It helped me to get past my rage at the owners of the Browns and think about what are the women who do they need fighting for them right now? So I’m going to volunteer this day and I reached out to the rape crisis center and the donations keep climbing to them as a way to have an effective response. 

When I'm talking about love, that’s what I mean. Figure out who I love. I love women. I love women who have not been able to speak out or who have found the courage to speak out. And we know what happens when they do in those circumstances. So that's how love gets me there. Right? I am never going to pretend that I am capable of loving people who inflict so much harm. I'm just going to try real hard never to hate them. Cause I don't want to give them that big part of my soul. 

Jasmine: I love that. I love the idea, we’ve we've had a few guests on the podcast kind of say something similar, where it can't always be about what you're fighting against. Sometimes you really have to lean into what you're fighting for. And sometimes the message of what you're fighting for actually resonates a lot more than constantly being anti anti anti. It's like, well, what are you for? 

I've actually started to implement that more in a lot of what I do and the messages that I send to my constituents when we have these bad bills, uh, I try to frame it in a manner of, you know, this is what I'm fighting for when I'm down here at the Capitol and I'm voting no on this bill. 

Connie: It’s another way of saying I will not give up on you. I will not give up on what you need. I will not give up on the reasons you sent me, right. That's how I feel as a columnist. I mean, I've been, there are certain issues I've been praying about for a long time. I will not give up on them. And I want, if nothing else, that's the message. And it's a positive one. 

Jasmine: I’m from Georgia. And so I get to talk about all the Georgia things on the podcast and Amanda's from Ohio and you are also from Ohio. So I'm curious, the midterms are coming up. How can we reach suburban women in places like Ohio, where you live, to make sure that they're showing up and that they are engaged in this very, very important election season?

Connie: Well, let's go back to what we were just talking about having positive messages, right? Full of information, full of facts, spoken and delivered in a way that shows our respect for them as busy women in the state. That’s what’s necessary if we are going to bring real change. And that's what all of you have been doing so well. I mean, there's a reason your efforts have taken off the way they have, and you're getting quoted more in national media, because you're onto something. It always at its core is about that. 

And we don't treat women as props. We don't view them as convenient. You know, we're not going to be here today to get them to vote and then abandon them. That's not how we talk. It's not how we approach it. I think that's the way we reach them. And we don't need to always be hair on fire, screaming about everything that's going wrong. What we need to do is help them feel the power they have to bring real change to the communities they care about. We want to empower people because that empowerment lasts past election. 

Jasmine: You know, that empowerment is more than just show up to the polls, that empowerment is get involved. And when you're involved, you that's, that's not just, just voting, that's voting. And, and I think that that's what we want to do. You're right. All right, so do you have any other novels in the works or is reality strange enough?

Connie: Yes and yes. Reality is strange enough, but fiction is a wonderful way to escape it for a little bit and talk about the reality that I see in my head. Um, I'm really excited actually about a couple of things. Uh, I am working on my second novel. The working title is Because You Asked, and it builds on a relationship between a grandmother and her granddaughter in her twenties.

But what I'm also excited about, I have a children's book coming out, not this summer, but next. And it came about in such a funny way. I tweeted one day, you know, I want to write a children's book and call it Tom The Troll Has Been Blocked. Because I block so many trolls. Within an hour, my agent was on the phone and said, “well, guess what, Razorbill books, which is with Random House is interested in a children's book about that.”

So the working title now is Lola Tames The Troll. And it's about a little girl and this boy who keeps dressing as a monster and holds up signs that are constantly harassing her and criticizing her. And at first she takes it to heart and then she finds her courage. And I really hope for two audiences here, obviously children who are bullied, right. Especially little girls. But also all those mothers out there who have really had it on social media with these trolls going after them. Cause they'll get what the trolling is about, but it also has a very happy ending. 

Jasmine: I love it. I love that. I kind of want to read this book. I get trolled every now and then, and I have to like reach deep down inside and say, don't feed the trolls. All right. You've been here before. So you know how this goes. It's now time to move on to our rapid fire questions. First question. So I know you cook to relieve stress sometimes. So what is your favorite dish to make?

Connie: Well we're vegans in this house and I love making tofu scramble. People will think, oh, I don't know. No, it's really good. And I always chop up some fresh vegetables in it. And then I add a little Tabasco sauce. Sherrod’s not big on the spices, but I got to have the spice. I love doing stuff like that. I like making healthy dishes that have a lot of flavors. And I like cooking for my husband. Cause he brings me breakfast in bed every morning when he's home. 

Jasmine: Oh, that's so sweet. I love that. 

Connie: I know, it is sweet. 

Jasmine: Second question, what advice would you give to your younger self? 

Connie: Stay loud.

Jasmine: I love it. 

Jasmine: I was always, I was criticized for having a loud laugh. I talk too loudly. Really what they meant is I talked at all. I would just wish I could tell young Connie just stay loud. It's all going to work out. And boy, are you going to have a voice down the road.

Jasmine: I would probably tell my younger self to stop talking yourself out of things, because you can do this thing. 

Connie: Oh, that's wonderful. I love that.

Jasmine: Next question. If you could swap lives with anyone in the world, who would it be?

Connie: I am living a life of gratitude. I love my life. I love the people in it. I love, I've never felt more fulfilled professionally and personally than I do right now. So, um, that's a hard pass for me. I'm going to just stay as complicated and problematic as I can be with all my flaws. I'm going to stay in the life I got.

Jasmine: Love it. What's the last song you listened to? 

Connie: I was thinking about this a little earlier today. I've been in a John Prine mood. But I'm not sure if it was All The Best or Angel From Montgomery. 

Jasmine: So if they made a movie out of your life, who would you cast to play Connie Schultz? 

Connie: Oh, I don't know. I know who I would cast for Sherrod. Um, it would be Greg Kinnear. I have said this for years. He even looks like Sherrod. And Sherrod and I just watched, from several years ago, we watched As Good As It Gets. And I said, look at him. He looks so much like you! And I know he could do your voice! And Sherrod was just kind of like, sort of says, all right, if you say so. But he does look a lot like Sherrod. I have no idea who would play me. 

Jasmine: So that is actually the end of our rapid fire question. So I want to make sure that people know where they can go to find out more about you and your work. 

Connie: Well, I'm easily found at USA Today. If you, I think if you Google my name, it's the first thing that comes up. And that's where my columns are. And of course my books are on Amazon and all the independent bookstore sites. Please, if you can, use an independent bookstore. It came out during the pandemic, and I want to thank every single one of you out there who have bought my book. Or borrowed it from a library. It's wonderful to still get mail from people. It's wonderful to hear it still being in the subject for book talks and stuff. I couldn't have predicted that, it couldn't have come out at a worst time and that it feels like it was the right time now. 

Jasmine: Well, I'm so glad I got a chance to talk with you today, Connie. And thank you so much for your words of advice. I'm going to listen to you. I'm going to take that breath and I'm going to make sure that I carve out some time for myself. And, you know, as always thank you for joining us on The Suburban Women Problem!

Connie: Well, thank you, Jasmine. And I'm going to be thinking about those buckets. I'm going to set a few down, so thank you for that.

BREAK

Rachel: Welcome back everyone. Jasmine, I loved listening to your interview with Connie. Just, I mean, she's absolutely fabulous. I wish that I could talk to her or listen to her every day. And speaking with her last year in season one was definitely one of my highlights of that season for me. And I will just remind everyone that she gave the advice for Twitter trolls to “block them, baby block them.” And I don't always do that, but it remains good advice, even if I don't do it. 

Jasmine: Yeah. She gave me some good advice too, as she was telling me you know, she was just talking about making sure to take your breath and make some time for yourself. She was like, “I'm talking to you too, Jasmine. Like, I am not just talking to your listeners, I’m talking to you.” And I was like, I received that. So, yeah, she's awesome. 

Amanda: I love it. She is very popular here in Ohio. So we organized a fundraiser for her husband, Sherrod Brown, and we found out that she was coming and it was like the buzz around town because you don't always get Connie Schultz! Right. She is like, and it was don't tell Sherrod more people were like, “oh, they got Connie at this one! Connie will be there!” All the buzz was so funny. I mean of course they were also there for Sherrod, like we love Sherrod Brown, but the big buzz was Connie Schultz. 

Rachel: I love it.

Amanda: Which, I get it. We love Connie. We love them both. They're both great. 

Jasmine: All right. So before we go, we like to leave you with something positive that we call our Toast to Joy. So Rachel, why don't you kick us off this week? What is your Toast to Joy?

Rachel: I am blessed to have another week with many Toasts to Joy. I missed last week, because I was actually in a car accident right before, um, we were going to record. So Katie thankfully filled in for me, but, um, I'm thankful that I was okay. I'm just thankful that I have health insurance and could go to the, the emergency room and get checked out and have that peace of mind. I mean, that really weighed very heavily on me. People don't like it when I use the word privilege, a lot of people don't, but it is a privilege and it is a privilege that not everyone that has.

And speaking of those, I turned 48 last Friday and, um, got to rejoin my husband for the weekend in California, in Los Angeles, and just have met some lovely people. So it's been amazing, but I guess just see my brother and his family again, might be my, uh, icing on the cake, the cherry on top, because we just haven't been able to spend a lot of time together traveling because of the pandemic and they live, you know, on a different coast than us. It's just great to be able to spend time with my nieces and read to them and hang out with them and, and all that stuff that I haven't been able to do for so long. So that's my Toast to Joy. Amanda, what is yours? 

Amanda: Oh, so I am super excited. I'm actually in Cancun cause we're having a little spring break. So my Toast to Joy has to be to spring break. Man, do I love spring break. Most of the time I love the weather in Ohio, but I do not love spring in Ohio. At this point, I just need a little break from the seasons, from the rain, from the snow, from everything. So my Toast to Joy is a spring break and taking a little time to just enjoy my kids, enjoy my family and my husband and my friends and relax and have fun. 

Rachel: Any keg stands? 

Amanda: Haha! No, but, mojitos! 

Rachel: That’s good, that’s like that adult version. Yeah.

Jasmine: That's fair. All right. So y'all my Toast to Joy this week is actually getting to see my dad and spend a whole bunch of time with my dad this weekend. So my dad actually lives in Metro Atlanta as well. Technically, he lives about 30 miles from me, but if you've ever been to Atlanta and tried to drive 30 miles, it can still feel like you're driving out of town as far as, like, it can be a bit of a, you can take a bit of time. And so, because of that, even though we kind of live in the same area, we don't actually see each other as often as we probably should.

But this weekend, Jada had a tournament that was very close to my dad's house. So I was like, “Hey dad, we're in your neck of the woods. Can we hang out with you today?” And he was like, “yeah, sure.” So he hung out with my dad was totally impromptu, but we have breakfast and hang out at his house. And he got to see my daughter play and it was just like a great, great, great time. Just hanging out with my dad, having conversations with my dad and I, it was, it was cool. I, I missed that, I should do that more. I'm going to make it a point to do that more often. 

Amanda: Aww. That’s so cute. 

Jasmine: Thanks y'all. And thanks so much to everyone for joining us today. Don't forget to take our listener survey and we'll see you again next week on another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.