We Need To Talk About Guns (with Shannon Watts and DeAndra Dycus)

We were deeply upset by the tragic mass shootings last weekend, so today, we need to talk about guns. Amanda Weinstein, Jasmine Clark, and guest host Katie Paris discuss how frustrating it is to feel like politicians are doing nothing while thousands die from gun violence. The majority of Americans support common sense legislation on firearms, so we need to stay loud and let our leaders know that we demand better.

Indiana mom DeAndra Dycus joins the pod to share her personal connection to this issue: after a stray bullet paralyzed her teenage son, she started an organization called Purpose for My Pain to support other families who have been affected by gun violence. DeAndra also spoke at the 2020 Democratic National Convention and published a book, Beautiful Resilience: Stories of Inspiration on Living Through a Mother's Grief.

After that, Amanda interviews Shannon Watts, the founder of Moms Demand Action. They discuss what moms can do to fight for better gun legislation, why it’s important for more women to run for office, and how Shannon stays positive and hopeful while working on such a devastating issue. They also find a little time to talk about Julianne Moore, Elizabeth Warren, and Shannon’s favorite yoga pose.

Finally, Amanda, Jasmine and Katie raise a glass to community support, to the women of SWEEP, and to attending the Georgia Democratic State Dinner in this week’s “Toast to Joy.”

If you’re ready to join the Great Troublemaker Turnout, please sign up here! Talking to the people in your network is the most impactful way to influence voters, and Red Wine & Blue is committed to providing everything you need to tap into this super power: training, tools, community, and support. Suburban women are taking a stand - join us!

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

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Transcript

The Suburban Women Problem - Season 2, Episode 19

Amanda Weinstein: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Amanda Weinstein. 

Jasmine Clark: I’m Jasmine Clark.

Katie Paris: And I'm Katie Paris, filling in for Rachel Vindman. 

Amanda: And you're listening to The Suburban Women Problem. So last weekend, there were three mass shootings in this country. Three. I mean, three that made national news, there probably more shootings, but there were three big ones that we heard about.

And you know, for the past few weeks we've been talking about Roe V Wade, and a lot of the same people who want to take away our right to choose also want guns in the hands of every American. All the guns, all the time, you get a gun, you get a gun, right? These people call themselves pro-life. But what about the lives of the people in Buffalo? Or Laguna Woods, California or Houston, Texas? So today we have to talk about gun violence. 

So I had the honor of interviewing Shannon Watts of Moms Demand Action, a nationwide organization fighting against gun violence. And before that, we're going to talk to DeAndra Dycus. DeAndra is a mom in Indiana who became an activist after a stray bullet left her teenage son paralyzed. She started an organization called Purpose for my Pain to support other families who have been impacted by gun violence snd she is so inspiring.

But it's really bad news on top of more bad news lately. Ladies, how are we all feeling? 

Katie I mean, not great. I mean, basically, in America, as moms, like the deal is that we just send our kids off to school every day on the hope that because we live in a big country with a lot of people, that today and every other day, it's not going to be our kids. It's not going to be the school that they go to. It's not going to be the grocery store that we take them to after school. 

Amanda: Oh my God. We're literally in church, we are praying in church, “I hope it doesn't happen right now in my church.” 

Katie: Right. Because that's all we've got, because we have a Congress, Supreme Court…

Amanda: Governors…

Katie: Yeah. State legislatures, who have refused to keep us safe. To do something about, to do what every other country in the free world does. To protect their citizens, to protect their kids. 

Jasmine: You know, people were peacefully protesting outside of the homes of Supreme Court Justices. And within hours, there was a bill that basically said, these people can have security, you know, if they feel like their life is in danger. Children have been getting shot. People sitting in church, you know, people shopping at the grocery store. One of those ladies reminded me so much of my grandmother, like I couldn't, when I was looking at the pictures, I just couldn’t. They don't have the benefit of someone saying “this is so urgent that we are going to fix this within the next 24 hours." 

If we believe that Supreme Court Justices’ families deserve to feel safe, why do we not feel like the families going to the grocery store or the parents who send their kids off to school or the people going to worship… why do we not feel like they deserve that same level of security? And if we do, then why do our policies not reflect that? Don't say you can't do something. Cause I just sat there and watched you do something when a couple of people said, “I don't feel safe.” You have a nation, you have people within our nation that saying “we don't feel safe” and everyone's got their hands up and saying, “I don't know what we can do about it. There's nothing we can do.”

Amanda: That's exactly right. They're choosing not to do something. We know this at this point and I think it is a terrible irony that one of the victims, Katherine Massey… we don't, we can't hear from her anymore, but we actually can, because she sent a letter into the Buffalo news, talking about how we needed better federal oversight for firearms. Right? This is a woman who has already spoken out about this, saying, “we need to do something and I know you can do something, but you are choosing not to do something.”

And it reminds me of when we had the mass shooting in Dayton and we saw our you know, the mayor of Dayton, Nan Whaley, who’s running for governor now, we saw her stand up and demand they do something. And the governor at the time said, “oh yeah, I'm going to do something. I'm going to do something.” So what did he do now? He signed into law that everyone can conceal carry without a permit. That is not doing something! 

Katie: It’s making it worse! 

Amanda: Yes, it is! 

Jasmine: There is nothing that backs up this idea that if everyone's carrying a gun that no one will get shot, that's not how things work. And even when there is someone in a gun, in all of these instances where we've had these mass shootings, there's usually a security guard or someone working at these grocery stores or working at these churches and those people end up getting killed first. Why? Because they have a firearm. So having a gun does not mean you won't get shot. It's not like an invisibility shield. And having a gun actually increases the likelihood that you'll harm yourself. I mean, there, there's just so many reasons why our policies are so backwards when it comes to guns in the United States and it feels like we're just going in the wrong direction and like really, really fast.

Katie: Is there any data though, that's ever going to change this? We know from everything that you're saying that the facts are on our side, we know from every other country that has responsible gun laws, that it works better because they don't have these mass shootings happening all the time. They don't have families living in fear every single day. And yet our political leaders do nothing. 

We know that over 80% of Americans support common sense gun laws like universal background checks. Like all the things that sound reasonable? Well, they are reasonable and American support them. But we have, you know, this monied special interest group, the gun lobby, that honestly has gotten a lot less powerful because moms, you know, have stood up louder than ever in the last few years. But what's going to be enough? Maybe we just need to get louder. Maybe we just need to get angrier. Because I know as a mom, I'm pissed.

Jasmine: I'm pissed too. 

Katie: I dropped my son off at school this morning and just, just had to hope that everything would be okay.

Amanda: And we get bad policy after bad policy. So now we have an Ohio, so my husband had to get more security for if your church needs it or if your synagogue needs it, right. Because that's all he can do, because the Republicans refuse to do anything. So then we have to put steel doors on schools. So then we have to have drills with our kids. We end up with bad policy after bad policy, and it just continues to snowball. And nobody seems to be willing to stop this now massive, you know, snowball that is hurling towards us. 

Jasmine: You brought up the school thing, Amanda I thought about when I was younger, the two drills we did were fire drills and tornado drills. You know, the fact that we have normalized it to being the victim of a shooting is equivalent to being in a fire is ridiculous. Like, there are things that we can do prior to an active shooter going into the school and shooting people, but we decided we would not stop that train anywhere except for the point of once they're in the school, tell our kids to hide in a closet. 

Or, this other genius idea, give everybody a gun. So now this kid who might also go to the school knows where all the guns are in the school as well. If 80% of Americans truly care about universal background checks, I'm really, truly wished that their votes reflected that. Honestly like this whole pro-life thing, like, I'm sorry, you cannot be guns everywhere and pro-life at the same time. Because guns kill.

Amanda: I know. And there's a heartbeat there, right? Full-blown heartbeat, walking, talking little kid. It is just strange that that heartbeat doesn't matter as much as the other ones that they protest. And some of this I think has to be us. And also it's our kids teaching us. When I look at, especially when it comes to what the kids that happen at the Parkland shooting, when I saw them stand up, it also made me think… so I was living in Colorado at the time of the Columbine shooting. We did nothing. We were like, “wow, this is shocking. And this sucks.” And the whole nation saw Columbine said, “this sucks.” The entire nation did nothing. 

And when I saw those kids, it was this huge realization of like, “holy shit, why didn't I do that?” Like, why didn't the whole nation do what they did? Like we're not all standing up and saying “enough is enough” and they are doing that. And I, and I can only imagine how it would have been different had we all stood up when Columbine happened. 

Jasmine: Another thing I want to point out because we cannot ignore… This kid had a manifesto, which basically said his whole goal, his objective in this shooting, was to kill as many Black people as he could. And this was based on his belief in what we call the Great Replacement Theory or GRT. And it has been perpetuated by right-wing media and I know that we have freedom of speech in this country, I understand that completely, but people need to be held accountable for radicalization of people who then go out and do these things. Like there has to be some accountability there. 

Katie: Imagine if we had the level of concern we have seen about CRT, right, Critical Race Theory, imagine if we'd had that level of concern about GRT, Great Replacement Theory? Which you've just pointed out, this is not just rhetoric online. People dismiss it as that, “oh, this is just, you know, kids talking” or even, you know, “free speech, just, you know, people have different points of view on race.” It has real life consequences. 

Jasmine: Absolutely.

Katie: This is not the first time. This is not the first time we have seen, you know, online chat and evidence of individuals speaking this way, you know, white supremacy… becoming not just talk. 

Amanda: I think right now, as a country, we all feel a sense of… nothing’s going to happen. 

Katie: Well, look, I think though, to your point about the nation and how we responded after Columbine versus how these mass shootings grip the nation today… how we have seen, you know, Gen Z step up and show us the way. Things have changed. And we have had things like, you know, there was a big victory in terms of making ghost guns illegal recently. There have been victories. They're not the victories we need, but there are things have happened along the way. And that hasn't happened because there has been an enormous shift in who we have in our leadership. There's no question, the way we fix this is we win more elections. When we have more leaders who say, “you know what, this isn't acceptable. We're going to start protecting the kids that are going to school every day. And the families that are going to worship and to the grocery store.” Like just bottom line, that's just going to be a basic expectation now in this country. We have to like more people to believe that. But the only way that happens is by continuing for there to be the same kind of shift that has been happening since Columbine. You know, I mean, Moms Demand Action, you got to talk to Shannon Watts this week, Amanda… When Columbine happened, Moms Demand Action didn't exist. 

Amanda: They’ve gotten so much done. And I think we just don't talk about it enough. We don't talk at those little wins. Jasmine. I know you’ve said all the time, it is so easy to like, let go of those little wins. Like a mass shooting happens, right, and we forget about all of the wins that Shannon Watts has gotten over the last year. Because we don't see other people stepping up as much, right. She is stepping up in a huge way, has stepped up in a huge way, with everyone in her organization.

I think we want to see more of our legislators step up in the same way, but we also need to help them too. We need to let them know we have their back and we loudly support this and we are going to be loudly for all of this. And we need to help spread those wins. Here's the wins we need. Here's the wins that we have. And I think that is really, it's hard to get that narrative through because it's so easy to spread a thousand lies a minute. 

Katie: Sometimes I think the problem is, is that we only hear our leaders talking about gun violence when there has been a mass shooting. The reality is, is that there are shootings happening every single day in this country and us moms, it’s like, we're talking about it and we've got to get louder on a day-to-day basis. Something I really love about our Facebook community SWEEP is that we hear consistently about this issue. And just in the last few days, there've been some been really important conversations about this subject. We have a couple of those comments that we wanted to share. You guys see those? I'll share one. 

So Lisa wrote, “as a retired teacher, I can say the active shooter drills were my biggest job-related nightmare. I did them with second and fifth graders. It's a huge weight to hold the safety and wellbeing of 34 kids in your two hands.”

Amanda: Oh, that is rough. And I can, I have friends who are teachers who have said things like, “am I supposed to choose to, you know, have my kids without a mom?” And that is just terrible. 

Jasmine: So Maria in Kentucky wrote, “my college age daughter hates going to the movies because she always feels like she needs to be on high alert.” I have that same fear. 

Katie: Yeah. Finally, Phyllis wrote, “my grandson came home from an active shooter drill in second grade, devastated because he sneezed while they were locked in the bathroom. He said, if that was a real shooting, it would be my fault if we all got shot.” 

Jasmine: Oh my gosh. 

Katie: I can see my son saying that, oh my gosh. 

Jasmine: This poor child.

Katie: It’s too much.

Jasmine: These are our children. These are children, y’all! We care so much, or I will say, they purport to care so much about unborn children. These are our children, and they're telling us, please do something. And, and it’s silence.

Amanda: As terrifying as it is to think about active shooter drills and preparing for the worst, for some families, the worst really does happen. So I think we should bring DeAndra on the pod now to talk about her personal story and the work she's been doing to support other moms and her fight against guns. DeAndra, thanks for joining us! 

DeAndra Dycus: Thank you all for having me!

Amanda: So you're a mom, you're a speaker and an activist, you started your own non-profit, you wrote a book, you do so much, but it all stems from one stray bullet on one tragic day. Could you tell us what happened to your son?

DeAndra: Yes. So on February 1st, 2014, my oldest son, DeAndre was at a birthday party, dancing, having a good time, probably flirting with girls, and a strike bullet flew through the window and hit him, leaving him what we call a nonverbal spastic quadriplegic. So Dre is paralyzed from his chest down and he no longer can hold a conversation or speak any words. 

Amanda: Oh, my gosh. That is every parent's worst nightmare. 

Katie: Oh, I wish we could hug you right now. 

Jasmine: So DeAndra, you know, we hear a lot about gun violence and guns and things like that, but you have first hand experience. So what do you wish people knew about gun violence? 

DeAndra: I wish people knew that, you know, once it's, you know, gone in a news flash or a news story, there are so many lives impacted by the journey. Whether someone's survives or someone is shot and taken, there’s so many layers to it in the aftermath of gun violence. What does aftercare look like, what does court look like, what do doctor's appointments look like? Every aspect of my life changed when my son was shot, even though he survived. So I get all the time, “Oh, you're so lucky” or “at least he's here” and I'm like, absolutely. I'm so grateful, I'm so blessed. But do you know what that looks like to have a child that survives, but needs 24 hour care? So what I say is, is just, it is so far beyond the moment for so many of us. It's a lifetime. 

Katie: Wow. Yeah. DeAndra, you wrote a book, I love the title: “Beautiful Resilience: Stories of Inspiration on Living Through a Mother's Grief." And it's got, it's got stories of other moms, just like you who have experienced heartbreaking loss. Is there a story from another mom in your book that you could share with us that just stays with you? 

DeAndra: Of course, they all impacted me. It was a very heavy, heavy project that I put together, but there's a mother in there, Ms. Pamela Wooden, she's here from Indianapolis like I am. And in December of 2015, she lost her youngest child to gun violence by way of a police action shooting. He was having a manic episode and he was killed. But then in 2018 she also lost her daughter to gun violence, it's still an unsolved case. And so, you know, I don't, I don't know what it's supposed to look like to lose two kids, but she's just not someone that carries it in a, in a very grievous way. She's she has so much joy. She encourages so many of the women that are a part of our support network. And so her story really speaks volumes to me. 

Amanda: This sticks with you. The gun violence is not anything you can just forget for a day. This is something that you live with every day, but it can feel like our country reads it in the news, and then forgets about it the next day. At least for me, it feels that way. And it feels like we just go about our day. What can we do so that we don't forget, so that we can help you? 

DeAndra: When you do see that it it's on the news and there's no follow up, there's always, I tell people there's a lot of power in social media, send positive thoughts and prayers, send text messages. Be a part of advocacy, get involved with your local Moms Demand Action, Everytown chapters. Somebody who's doing something every single day. 

Or just do your piece and just be kind. A kind social media post, a post that says, “Hey, I know we may not have had a follow-up to your story, but just know I'm thinking about you.” I have a new role here with the city of Indianapolis. I'm a program director for non-fatal shootings advocacy and support. And as I'm calling these families, they can't even believe that somebody from the city is calling them to say, “Hey, how are you doing?” It goes a long way. When you talk to a mother who's standing by her son in the bed or her daughter… I just talked to a family, getting ready to go into surgery. And she said, “I can't thank you enough for reaching out this morning.” And so it's those little things that mean so much of families. And it means so much to me as a mother. If I just get a quick text and say, we're thinking about you and dry you're in our continued prayers.

Katie: Wow. That's a great idea. DeAndra, I feel like you've given us such clear advice, you know, as moms, we need to be there for other moms on, you know, the big days and all the days in between. But you know what, I expect even more than that from our leaders. What can, what message can we carry to our leaders to get more action on this issue? We wouldn't have made any progress at all if it wasn't for moms like you. How we keep moving forward? How can we have your back in this fight? 

DeAndra: You know what, for moms who have not been impacted by gun violence, I think it's incredible when you keep showing up and linking arms with survivors of gun violence. So that's my greatest advice: keep showing up, keep linking arms. Cause we never want to see you walk these shoes. I'm so happy to have a non-profit, I'm so happy to be a part of Moms Demand Action, but it doesn't make me feel good when there's a new survivor story. And so whatever you can do to just simply show up and support, elevate your voice as a concerned mom as it pertains to legislation and getting universal background checks and things of that nature. Just keep showing up. That is the best thing to do. It says from mom to mom, from mama bear to mama bear, I hear you. And I'm here to support you and love you through this journey. Because the truth is, we don't want anyone else added to this club. And in order to stop that, it's going to take all of us survivors and non survivors of gun violence.

Amanda: DeAndra, we want to thank you for joining us today. 

DeAndra: Thank you all so much for having me. It's just always my pleasure to be a voice and to share Dre’s story and to support other moms. It's definitely become my life's work. 

Amanda: Well, we're glad you're here. All our love to you and Dre and all your family. 

Now we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll have my conversation with Shannon Watts. We recorded this interview before the events of this past weekend, but unfortunately this is an evergreen topic in this country. So everything she says is still just as true right now as it is basically any day. Our interview is coming up after the break.

BREAK

Amanda: Our guest today is a mom of five. After the Sandy Hook tragedy, she found in Moms Demand Action, a grassroots organization that fights for public safety measures to protect Americans from gun violence. She's also the author of Fight Like a Mother, How a Grassroots Movement Took on the Gun Lobby and Why Women Will Change the World. Shannon Watts, thank you for joining us on The Suburban Women Problem. 

Shannon Watts: Thank you for having me. 

Amanda: So, the day after the horrible tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary school, you started a Facebook group to have a conversation about how we can reduce gun violence. And today, Moms Demand Action has a chapter in every single state. So could you tell us what that journey has been like for you? 

Shannon: Yeah, it has been quite a journey. I was a stay-at-home mom of five in Indiana when the Sandy Hook school shooting happened back at the very end of 2012. And, you know, I was a corporate communicator, I was taking a five-year break from the corporate world to get my kids through middle school, which as any mom knows is a full-time job in itself.

Amanda: Rough period. I've heard, I don't have experience, but I've heard. 

Shannon: Well just wait, just wait. It's interesting times. But I thought I was going to go back to work. In fact, I'd already started looking for a job. And I was at home, folding laundry, saw the breaking news on my television, that there was an active shooter inside an elementary school. And like, I'm sure like you and everyone else in the country that day, I just couldn't stop watching television. I just, I couldn't fathom that 20 children and 6 educators had been murdered in the sanctity of an American elementary school. 

And the next day, after a lot of tears, I was angry and I thought. You know, there's gotta be something out there like Mothers Against Drunk Driving. It was so incredibly influential to me as a teen in the eighties. And I got online and I couldn't find anything like that. There were some state and city organizations, almost all run by men. There were some Washington DC think tanks, also run mostly by men. And I wanted to be part of a bad-ass army of women. You know, that's what I've seen get so much done in this country time and time again. And so I just created a Facebook page, not trying to create an organization, just to have a conversation. And you know, if you know anything about Type A women, which I'm sure you do, it very quickly became the largest grassroots movement in the country.

Amanda: Yeah. That is such an unmet need. Right. And you saw it. I love that you, as a woman, were like, look, women out there want this organization, and if not me then who, right? It's going to be me. And if not today, then when? It's going to have to be today. And I love that you did that. And it's really amazing the work that has come from your organization and the work that you've done.

So part of the work that you've done is debunking myths. And man, are there a lot of myths around gun violence and policies to combat gun violence. So we are all about combating misinformation on this show. What are some gun myths you frequently have to debunk? 

Shannon: Oh, you know, it, there's just so much misinformation out there, in part because the gun lobby has a 30 year head start. And, you know, there's this idea that somehow more guns in more places will make us safer. Let's be clear, if that were the case, we would be the safest country in the world. We have 400 million guns, we have very few gun laws. And in fact, we also have a gun homicide rate that is 26 times higher than any peer nation. And that's because we give easy access to guns to people who shouldn't have them. You know, for example, domestic abusers. We know that if a woman is in a home where there's a gun and there's a domestic violence situation, it makes it five times more likely that she will be killed by a gun. 

When we look at the data it shows—and this is pretty intuitive, but you have to have this data because otherwise you're having this emotional anecdotal conversation— states with weaker gun laws have higher rates of gun deaths, and strong gun law states have lower rates of gun death. Again, intuitive, but data bears this out. 

And, you know, we have seen record gun sales in the past few years during the Trump administration. He made sure that anyone who wanted a gun, got a gun. Now pretty much every country is dealing with the COVID crisis, but only America has given its citizens easy access to guns during that period of time. And what are we seeing now? Record levels of shootings. Record levels of gunfire on school grounds, record levels of road rage shootings involving guns, a huge, horrible crisis of youth suicide, particularly with guns and also unintentional shootings where children are getting access to guns in their homes and shooting themselves or others. And sadly, this is the logical outcome of really allowing gun lobbyists to write our nation's gun laws. 

Amanda: Oh, that's such a good point. So in Ohio, we just had a bill signed into law where you can conceal carry without a permit, which I know has happened in other states as well. If we believe it's not the guns, then what we're saying is Americans are like five times more murderous than other countries. Right? I don't believe that about my neighbors, about fellow Americans. And I don't think any Americans do. Right. So it seems pretty obvious, right, what the issue is, which you stated so well… it's the guns, right? We have a ton of guns out there, and this affects us.

Shannon: And it's easy access to guns, right? Because you can look at other countries that actually have high rates of gun ownership, not really like the United States, but high rates. But what they also have is incredibly strong gun laws. And as a result, they have very low levels of gun violence. We're not going to put this genie back in the bottle. 

And I also want to be clear that we are not against the second amendment. Many of our volunteers are gun owners or their partners are gun owners. As we said, there's 400 million guns in this country. But there should be responsibilities that go along with gun rights. And as you said you know, states are passing things like permitless carry, 24 states now have this law, which means that you were no longer required to get a background check or any gun safety training in order to carry a hidden loaded handgun. This is the NRA’s dream. It is a public safety nightmare. It is why police opposed this law. And they've shown up as part of our coalition all across the country when we're testifying against these bills. But there is a group of gun extremists that sadly include lawmakers who are doing the NRA’s bidding. And as a result, they are putting lives on the line. I mean, people will die because of this legislation. It's absolutely senseless and preventable, but it is up to every American to use their vote and their voice on this issue. 

Amanda: I mean, so you brought up a really good point, right? So the issue is easy access, right. You are not trying to take anyone's guns away or destroy the second amendment. Right. So what are you proposing? How do we, how do we not have access so easy while still, you know, supporting the second amendment? 

Shannon: Well, first of all, you know, I think people think this is a polarizing issue and I just want to be clear that there's really no other issue in America that more Americans agree on than common sense gun laws. Over 90% of Americans support things like a background check on every gun sale. That includes over 80% of gun owners in this country. Only one in 10 of who even belongs to the NRA, but you asked, you know, what do we support?

And it is what the vast majority of Americans support. Something like a background checks on every single gun sale. Right? So the opposite of permitless carry, which is if you are going to carry a hidden loaded handgun in public, you should have a background check to make sure that you're not a domestic abuser or a minor, and you should also have to have.

There should be some standard of gun safety training when permitless carry passes. That is a huge concern that police have, which is that people are trained. And when you're not trained, you do things like leave guns in your car. And there is a very big crisis in this country right now of lost and stolen guns. Only 11 states require you to report if your gun has been lost or stolen. 

Amanda: I did not know that!

Shannon: Yeah. And when those guns are still live from cars, it is the largest pipeline of illegal guns. Most illegal guns are stolen from cars. So pretty much if you told that story to anyone, they would say, well, we've got to figure out how to stop that. And we can certainly do that through laws. All of those laws and policies are opposed by the gun lobby. And then closing loopholes. Right? So for example, in addition to the loophole that allows unlicensed gun sales without background checks, you can buy a gun and if your background check doesn't clear within three days, that dealer is allowed to go ahead and sell you the gun anyway. That’s called the Charleston Loophole because the gunman who killed nine black parishioners in Charleston was a prohibited purchaser. Why did his background check not clear in three days? Because he had a very complicated criminal history. That's pretty obvious. The gun dealer went ahead and sold him the gun and he used it to murder innocent people. So closing loopholes. 

We also support something called secure storage. Right now, 4.6 million children live in homes with unsecured guns. Meaning they're not locked. They're loaded. They're not separate from ammunition. Again, no other peer nation is dealing with unintentional shootings where children get access to guns and shoot themselves for someone else.

Amanda: That’s an interesting point. If you think about like the security, as a mom, right? That's something I worry about, but I don't want to have the uncomfortable conversation with my friend. Like if my kids over at a play date—

Shannon: You have to, you have to.

Amanda: Oh, so that's what you suggest. You just have to have the uncomfortable conversation. Look, do you have unlocked guns in your house? 

Shannon: I would strongly suggest anyone who's interested in having that conversation, go to the website Be Smart For Kids. That's our website where we tell you step-by-step how to have that conversation. I can't tell you how many volunteers have said to me, “You know, I send my kids to my in-law's house all the time. I decided to have this conversation to practice with them before I went to people who weren't related to me. And they said, ‘oh yeah, we keep a loaded handgun in a shoe box under the bed where your kids sleeps.’" 

So please don't ever assume that just because someone, you know, don't assume they're not a gun owner and don't assume that they're storing their guns responsibly. It is on all of us to ask that question. 

Amanda: So this is such a devastating topic. You talk about it so well, and talk about all this legislation, but I know you also work with people who've had their lives, absolutely shattered by gun. How do you stay positive and hopeful? 

Shannon: It’s a great question. You know, I've been doing this now for nearly a decade. I'm a full-time volunteer. And I spend most of my day talking about, or to people who have experienced, horrible tragedy, Life-shattering upending tragedy. And what they say keeps them involved are two things. The first is that we're winning. And I think we lose sight of that. I think because there hasn't been this cathartic moment in Congress yet people think, “oh, this is hopeless.” And in fact, we've passed so many bills in city councils and state houses and through school boards. And we're making such a huge difference every single day, culturally legislatively, electorally. I wouldn't still be doing this work as a volunteer if we weren't. 

And then the other thing that, that keeps them involved are the relationships they create. You know, lifelong friendships with like-minded people. We always celebrate successes, no matter how big or how small. And, and we talk a lot about self care, right? You, you have to prioritize your own wellbeing, your family's wellbeing. There've been many times you, I write about this in my book, there've been many times where I've had to step out and say, “I have to take care of this.” And the work was still there when I got back. 

And so it's really important to know that this is a marathon, not a sprint. But it's also a relay race and you need to pass that baton to other people whenever you need to. And, and I also talk a lot about, you know, I'm a big meditator. It has changed my life and I also take a bubble bath every night.

Amanda: That’s a great idea. Oh, yes. So you're also on the board of Emerge America, an organization that recruits and trains women to run for office. Where do you see overlaps between gun safety legislation and more women in office?

Shannon: Well, women make up half the population in this country and we are under a third of elected office holders. Right? So if you think about the fact there's about 500,000 elected positions in this country, we hold about 20% of those. And as the saying goes, if you don't have a seat at the table, you are probably on the menu. 

I think women bring such different and important perspectives and priorities to that table. They're not intimidated by gun lobbyists and fear-mongering and gun extremists. Right. I see them all the time going toe to toe with people who are armed and trying to intimidate and silence them. But if we lose our children, you know, we really have nothing left to lose. And so I think it is imperative… there’s a moral imperative in this country for women to run. If you spend any time in a state house, you realize, you know, some of these people have the IQ of a rutabaga. 

Amanda: Haha, it’s true.

Shannon: And if you are caring and compassionate and concerned, you will make a great elected official. And you don’t have to run for Congress, you know, you can run for city council or sheriff or judge or state house or school board. And so we just created a program for our volunteers, both students and Moms Demand Action, called Demand a Seat. We've already had hundreds and hundreds of women run. Many, many have won. We have two members of Congress who are Moms Demand Action volunteers, Lucy McBath and Marie Newman. And, and this is a really great way to recruit and train our own volunteers and survivors to create this bench of people that we could pull from, right. A pipeline of gun sense candidates up and down the ballot. 

Amanda: So Shannon, this has been such an important conversation. Thank you so much, but you're not done yet! Before we go, we also like to ask a few rapid fire questions. Are you ready? 

Shannon: Yes. 

Amanda: So you love yoga and you even studied to be a yoga teacher. So I'm curious, what's your favorite yoga? 

Shannon: Oh, Shavasana. Obviously. The very end when you get to relax. 

Amanda: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's my, yes! I will, I will take a yoga class from you. 

Shannon: We’ll just do Shavasana from beginning to end. 

Amanda: Oh yes! All right. The forward to your book was written by Julianne Moore, who’s also the founding chair of the Everytown Creative Council. Do you have a favorite Julianne Moore movie? 

Shannon: I do. And look, I think she is just such an amazing actor. I adore Julianne Moore. My very favorite movie with her is Boogie Nights where she played Amber Waves. You know, it’s a movie I can remember seeing and just was like, wow, this is so edgy. And she was just brilliant. 

Amanda: Oh, love it. So speaking of amazing women, you have talked to so many incredible women in your work, not just movie stars, but also political stars like Stacey Abrams, Elizabeth Warren, and Kamala Harris. Who's someone that made you absolutely starstruck?

Shannon: Well, all the people you just mentioned, but I think probably most of all Elizabeth Warren. She’s a huge hero to me. And when I got to hang out with her backstage at a speech I was giving in Massachusetts, she was so informal. She didn't even have shoes on. We were just standing there talking. It was, it was great. I was like, this ihe equivalent of talking to George Clooney and I've talked to him too! 

Amanda: I love that. Elizabeth Warren beat him out. Oh, I love listening to Elizabeth Warren. I could see that where she would just because she has a very conversational style. Even when you see her in like press conferences to me, I'm like, I could totally see like having a glass of wine with her and just chatting about all things like policy.

All right. It's Friday night and you're finally sitting down on the couch after a long week of work. What are you drinking? 

Shannon: Oh, that's easy. A very dry glass of champagne. 

Amanda: Oh yeah, me too! Actually my boss got me into this. It's like, that is a very nice, like, drink to start off at dinner, celebrate the beginning of the weekend. Oh, that is what I start with too. 

All right. That is the end of our rapid fire questions. Where can people go to find out more about you and your work? How can we jump in, if we want to jump into the fight?

Shannon: We make it so easy. And a lot of people say the reason they get involved is because we immediately reach out to them and tell them how to connect to their local chapter. So just text the word “ready” to 64433. Someone, a volunteer, will reach out to you pretty instantaneously and tell you what's going on where you live. You can also go to MomsDemandAction.org, @Moms Demand on Twitter. Also we have an Instagram page and then you can find me on pretty much any social media platform at ShannonRWatts.

Amanda: Awesome. Shannon, it has been a pleasure talking to you. Thanks for stopping by The Suburban Women Problem. 

Shannon: Oh, thank you so much having me here.

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Katie: Welcome back everyone. Amanda, thank you so much for that interview with Shannon. I really needed to hear her words and her strength today. 

Amanda: It was really great talking with her and I learned so much that I didn't realize that she was doing, the legislation that needs to be done that's not done. And I feel like part of how we break through that narrative is by hearing people like Shannon tell us what she's been doing and what needs to be done. We need to hear, you know, voices like that more often. And I loved hearing all the stuff she's doing and learning new things. 

Jasmine: I follow her on Twitter and something she posted over the weekend was basically like, you know, each time these things happen, people reach out to her and they're just like, “I feel so hopeless.” And you know, her message was that we don't have a choice, we have to keep going. And that really resonated with me. I've talked to y'all about this on the podcast for was so many things. I constantly feel like, why am I still fighting the battles that my grandparents and great-grandparents had to fight. But you know, every now and then you need that jolt. It's like we do it because we have to. 

Amanda: All right. I'm getting deja vu saying this because we have had a lot of heavy episodes lately, but this has been another tough one. So before we go, man, do we need some joy. We need our Toast to Joy. So, Jasmine, what is your Toast to Joy this week? 

Jasmine: So my Toast to Joy this week was being able to get all dolled up and go to our Democratic State Dinner that we have. So like the state party puts together this annual dinner which will now from henceforth be referred to as the Carter Lewis Dinner after Jimmy Carter and John Lewis. 

Amanda: Wait, what was your dress? What did it look like? 

Jasmine: Oh, it was so cute. Black, off the shoulder with a little slit. I got lots of compliments.

Katie: And your hair is looking mighty fine. 

Jasmine: Thank you. Yeah, I got my hair up in a big high puff. Yes. So, yeah, I mean, it was nice and more than just getting dolled up and attending. The energy was high. We heard from Stacey Abrams, we have some Raphael Warnock. 

Katie: I mean, it's good to be from Georgia. I mean, seriously, ladies. 

Jasmine: Yes! Our events, speakers. 

Amanda: You know, even the Republicans are a little jealous. They're like, great. 

Jasmine: Oh, for sure. There probably were sneaking in the back. Like let's just hear. But it was a great weekend. So Katie, what's your Toast to Joy? 

Katie: Okay. So I did have COVID in the last week. So that was kind of a bummer. I spent a lot of time at the house. You know, and my three-year-old had it as well—

Amanda: Staycation! 

Katie: I mean, that's, you're really stretching the definition there. Like as moms, we have to like put on a happy face, but that was no fun. 

Amanda: Awww.

Katie: Okay. Look, this is what I'm going to say. My Toast to Joy is to the women of this community. I have been reading nonstop the stories that women have been sharing. You know, we, we shared some of the comments about, about gun violence this week, but the non-stop sharing of women talking about the circumstances under which they had an abortion at some point in their life or someone that they know did. 

And it's made me feel a couple of things. Just one, you know, gratitude for people's openness. You know, if, if all the people in the world could read these stories, there's no way that you could possibly, you know, anyone could be for government mandated pregnancy. So I'm just feeling gratitude for that. As well as for all those moms on the Red Wine and Blue team that are the moderators of this community and have created a space where women know that we're gonna use our voices and we're gonna stand up in this election. Because that's the other thing. They share their stories and they say, “we're going to do something about this.” 

Amanda: I'll tell you what, that's my favorite place to go for stories. They're the stories that you're, don't see the New York Times, or you don't see in, you know, wherever. They are very personal. They are very real. 

Jasmine: And they're diverse. They're like from all over the country. 

Amanda: Yes. I was just thinking that. So I really love today when DeAndra was like reach out to someone, you know, who has been affected by this. And I was thinking about. I should do that. Like, I don't do that as much as I should, I should do that. And so I so I actually have a friend in high school who was killed by gun violence. And I think about him often. It was really the first time I was ever affected by it and those stories matter. And those people matter. And I think that his mom would love me reaching out to be like, I know you probably think we've all forgotten about your son, but I haven't. I still think about him occasionally. 

Katie: Oh, do that, Amanda! And come back and tell us how it goes! 

Amanda: I’m going to see if I can get ahold of her. I already started that. Yeah. Because I loved him very much. So I should reach out to his mom and I just never thought about that to let you know, I haven't forgotten about him. I never did. 

All right. So my Toast to Joy is To all my helpers. So I had a little mishap with self care gone wrong— sprained my ankle, pretty good sprain. And my husband was in Columbus, ironically meeting with some nurses on the Capitol to really help with how we treat our nursing and healthcare staff. But I had a neighbor who actually had to come pick me up off the trail. And my dad who drove me to the ER. It was like a very group effort just to get me out of the woods and okay. So I really appreciate like the huge community effort that sometimes it takes to take care of me. 

Katie: Oh man. We're glad you're okay. 

Jasmine: Yes! We are. 

Amanda: So thanks so much to everyone for joining us today and we'll see you again next week on another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.