You Are What A Candidate Looks Like (with A’shanti Gholar and Rep. Mari Manoogian)

This week on the pod, we’re talking about running for office. When women run, especially women of color, it’s undeniable that they’re held to a different standard than their white male counterparts. Jasmine Clark tells co-hosts Amanda Weinstein and Rachel Vindman about how her validity as a candidate has been questioned all along the way, even after winning her race in 2018.

The hosts are joined by Mari Manoogian, the youngest woman currently serving in the Michigan State Legislature. Mari discusses her experience running for office as a young woman of color and about how the voters in Michigan want to elect leaders who fight for reproductive justice and stand up against extremism.

Jasmine then interviews A’shanti Gholar, the president of Emerge, an organization dedicated to recruiting and training Democratic women to run for office. Jasmine and A’shanti chat about what got her first interested in politics, the uphill battle that women face when they run for office, and what we can do to support them… not just as candidates but also as human beings.

Finally, Amanda, Jasmine and Rachel raise a glass to solidarity and the rising Blue wave, to kids connecting to their culture at camp, and to listeners who are maintaining their hope despite living in red districts in this episode’s “Toast to Joy.”

If you’re ready to join the Great Troublemaker Turnout, please sign up here! Talking to the people in your network is the most impactful way to influence voters, and Red Wine & Blue is committed to providing everything you need to tap into this super power: training, tools, community, and support. Suburban women are taking a stand - join us!

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

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Transcript

The Suburban Women Problem - Season 2, Episode 33

Jasmine Clark: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Jasmine Clark. 

Rachel Vindman: I'm Rachel Vindman.

Amanda:  I'm Amanda Weinstein.

Jasmine: And you're listening to The Suburban Women Problem. So we've been talking about the upcoming midterm elections and how important they are. Just a reminder, they're now 12 weeks away and you can get involved by signing up for our great troublemaker turnout by going to redwine.blue. 

So I've also been talking about how I'm up for reelection this year. So I've been campaigning, knocking on doors, talking to constituents, all of those things. But the truth is, when someone who looks like me runs for office, I am actually treated differently than when a man runs for office. Especially if he's a white man, like my opponent. So today I'm very excited to share my interview with A’shanti Gholar, the president of Emerge. And my conversation with A’shanti was amazing. A'shanti was so cool and I just can't wait for you all to hear it. And before that, we'll be joined by Mari Manoogian, an inspiring young woman and State Representative in Michigan.

But before we get into any of that, let's chat! How are y'all doing? What's been blowing up our group chat? 

Rachel: Well, you know, very on topic today, I sent you guys a HuffPost article in which Marjorie Taylor Greene was talking about the very sad and persecuted majority white men in the country and how they are just so persecuted and so discriminated against that it has caused them, sadly, so turn to porn. 

Amanda: I could not even. I started reading and I was like, “Nope, can't do this. I can't even entertain this. It is too laughable.” And I literally did laugh out loud, but like changing this narrative… first of all, they love to talk about how other people like to play the victim, but they love to play the victim.

Jasmine: Yeah. It's like this weird thing of like, Anyone tells me no, I am oppressed and it's like, no, that's really not how oppression works.  

Amanda: Oh, my children are very oppressed by that definition, can I just say.

Rachel: Oh my goodness.

Jasmine:  People get told no all the time. And just because you were told no doesn't mean that someone got something and took it from you, like society owes you. And then you have other people that are like, “yeah, they took it from you!” Then you get these people that start doing all these crazy things. 

Like let's talk about the Ohio thing. You know, someone died because they just cannot fathom that Donald Trump is not allowed to commit crimes. And like, they really believe that on Twitter. It's like being in the Twilight Zone. They're like, “oh, he can do whatever he wants.” And I'm like, “no, he can't. That's literally not how our country works.”

Amanda: I know. So this guy Ricky Schiffer goes into the FBI office with a nail gun because he thinks he's figured out how to get through bullet-proof glass. And one of the last things he commented on, you know, Trump's True Social was, “Well, I thought I had a way through bulletproof glass and I didn't.” And all I can think of is, imagine what else you could be wrong about Ricky? 

Jasmine: Oh my God. 

Rachel: I've been talking with some of my friends about Ellie. The oppression that she is facing this summer because she went to camp and then she went on vacation. So she has to do her summer work in a very shortened amount of time. And–

Jasmine: Oh, the oppression. 

Rachel: Yeah. It's been really hard for her, but honestly she makes a more cogent argument than some of these MAGA people. They think they should be able to do whatever they want just because. So it's about winning. It's not about what's right. It's not about the rules. They just think that they should be able to do whatever they want. And like, there's no arguing. 

So, I always think there's kind of these two groups of people… there's the people that we should be having dialogue and conversation with and like introducing them to these new ideas, you know, like, “well, have you ever thought of this?” You know, when we're having these relational conversations.

And then there's the people that it’s like, I just wanna beat you because I can't convince you. And I think when we might have talked about this in some of our group chat, like I think there are a lot of people who are coming around to the fact that they were fooled 

Jasmine: Slowly, but it is happening in some places. 

Rachel: But they cannot allow themselves to think this. 

Jasmine: One of the things that really bothers me about this whole thing is… sometimes it's comical because you're just like, “Are you serious? Like nails, bullets, okay, whatever.” But sometimes it's scary. You know, I think about the fact that we've got armed men showing up to FBI buildings and random places that are nowhere near Mar Lago. So I'm like, for example, why are you showing up to the FBI building in Phoenix? What is the actual purpose other than to intimidate random people who have nothing to do with the situation? Other than they are FBI? But we live among these people! 

And so, you know, at a certain point, there has to be a reckoning or something because this is not sustainable. As a country, this is not sustainable. You know, I just think back to that night in November when Donald Trump had the numbers to win and how devastated I was. And as bad as I thought it was going to be, I could not fathom how bad it would actually. And here we are like, he's not even the president anymore and we still are in this really bad place.

And so we've gotta find a way to turn this around and I don't know what will help it, but hopefully Donald Trump having to actually answer on the record for the things that he has done will change enough minds that the other people will go back into obscurity instead of feeling so empowered. But right now they're just so empowered to just do these really horrible, scary things. And it freaks me out. 

Amanda: And there's hardly any leadership and people willing to stand up on the right. When this guy went into the FBI office and it ended up in a shootout with police, like, our governor said nothing for days. 

Jasmine: Yeah. That's really bad. 

Amanda: Like he’s totally fine with it. He just now, I just saw a couple hours ago on Twitter, was like, “Well, that's horrible. And we back law enforcement.” Really? That's it? It took you two days to come up with that? And all of the stuff you're doing to be complicit in this extremism, this is why we had this shootout. This guy was also there on January 6th. You are complicit in all of that.

I feel like we need the leaders to do it. Like all of Trump's followers, I don't expect more from them than our leaders. I do expect more from our leaders, our governors need to stand up immediately and say, “This is wrong. The extremism has to stop.”

Jasmine: Which is why I love Beto in Texas. 

Amanda: Yes! Oh yes.

Jasmine: I do think that we have opportunities as leaders or, you know, people with a platform to say we are not standing for this crap. So backstory, just in case people don't know, Beto was at a rally and he was talking about the shooting in Uvalde. And there was a heckler there that basically started laughing when he was talking about dead children, children who had been shot. And Beto had some not so nice words in response to that. And he might have threw out the F bomb or the MF bomb, but–

Amanda: That we've whatever heard before. Please. 

Jasmine: But in the moment, it needed to be said. I feel like you, you have to show passion in the moment instead of always being so freaking calculated about everything. Because in that moment, if you're angry, yes, it is okay to say “this is not okay to laugh about.” 

And so, you know, some people– and by some people, I mean, like very few people– were like, oh, I don't think that's very becoming of someone trying to be governor. And I'm like, have you heard Trump? Have you heard him speak? Like at all, like, that's what you respond to.

Rachel: Those people sent me DMs, several of them. And I was like, “Okay. You elected Trump and you don't have a problem with the ‘grabbing by the pussy.’” These people didn't have any issues with that.

Jasmine: No one in the room seemed offended. No one in the room was like “Gasp. Oh my gosh. I can't believe he said that.” The people in the room were like, thank you for saying it.

Amanda: Yes, they were cheering. They were like, “I'm so glad you said it because we were all thinking that same word.”

Rachel:  Okay. Let's flip it. What if a woman had said that? You’ve actually– 

Jasmine: No, it's really difficult. It's really difficult.

Rachel: Yeah. And you've run for office. I mean, I'm, I'm only speculating here. This is why I can't run for office. Do you feel the need to self-censor? 

Jasmine: Absolutely. 

Rachel: Where you think men don't at all? 

Jasmine: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the truth is, as much as I felt what Beto said in my gut and in that moment, that's exactly what I would've wanted to say, I don't think I would've had the guts to actually say it. Because I, I do feel the need to self censor.

I feel like everything that I say, everything that I do, every facial expression that gets posted, everything is under scrutiny, especially because I'm a woman. So don't show too much emotion. I'm a Black woman - don't show too much rage or anger. I just feel like I can't get away with things. And even if I do say something, I remember one podcast episode, I think I said “what the hell”...

Amanda: Wait, hell is a bad word? It’s in the Bible, like a lot.

Jasmine: But I remember being like, “oh man, I hope that doesn't backfire.” And then I'm like, “Seriously? People say that all the time. It's not that big of a deal, out of all of the curse words.” But for a moment, I was, I did have that worry.

And so I, I do think that women and especially women of color and I'm gonna be very specific, Black women, you know, have to really be careful because we just can't get away with it. You know, maybe if I said it, people would've cheered as well, and they probably would have. I just don't have the, the, I don't have the audacity yet to push those boundaries.  

Amanda: Do you think that makes it harder for you to feel like you are coming across in an authentic way with your constituents? Where it's like, it's easier for men to be authentic, cause he can say a cuss word and not have to worry about it, where you do have to worry about it? So you're kind of a little more on eggshells than, you know, a Beto would be.

Jasmine: I think so. I, I definitely think there's what I wanna say, what my authentic self would say, and then there's what I feel like I have to say. And they might equate to the same exact thing, but the delivery is gonna be different. And sometimes I do not feel like I can deliver as passionately or as recklessly as some of my white male colleagues.

Amanda: No, I said the word “shitshow” at work one time and it literally caused a shitshow. And I didn’t think it was a bad word at the time. In hindsight, I could see that after it was explained to me. I was like, “you should come to my house because it's a shitshow at some point every day. like, that is just my reality.” And apparently it was super offensive for a woman to say “shitshow” at work. And it was a shitshow! It was factually correct!

Rachel: This is why we got Donald Trump as president, and it's something that we're just not talking about. I mean, like, look, we have enough to do right now and we can’t focus on not the past, but going forward, I think it's important to talk about these things and try to change them. And try to be more aware. 

But you see the hate–I don't even wanna call it rhetoric cause it's actual hatred–for the vice president. And the reason they hate her is her gender, her ethnicity and her success. It's a lot to unpack, but it's something that I think we should be aware of when we're talking to our husbands, when we're talking to our children and, and everywhere in between. Because if we're not aware of it and trying to change it, then it will never, ever change. Cause it's 2022. And the fact that it's still an issue shows that it's an issue because we're not dealing with it properly.

Amanda: I mean, you made such a good point when we think about Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton. Right? So he was praised for how authentic he is and, you know, “isn't it amazing he can fly off the cuff and say whatever he wants?” Where she was chastised for being inauthentic, because she was so measured in how she spoke. And now you take that and you can see why we get these extreme candidates doing mini-Trump things all over the nation. 

Jasmine: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think this is a perfect time to bring on our Troublemaker of the week to hear about her experiences running for office. At only 28 years old, Mari Manoogian is the youngest woman currently serving in the Michigan State legislature.

Well, hi Mari. Thanks for joining us. 

Mari Manoogian: Oh, thanks so much for having me. 

Jasmine: So how was it running for state representative in your twenties? And did you always wanna be in politics or was there something that drove you to it? 

Mari: I grew up in a labor family. So I, I represent a metro Detroit Michigan district. And my dad was, he's retired now, but he was a local union leader when I was a kid. So I grew up in democratic politics, but more specifically grew up in labor union politics. And so I wouldn't say that I necessarily always knew I was going to run for office, but was always curious about, you know, how our government functioned, really curious about how leaders made decisions. And so I grew up with that being a pretty typical thing that we talked about in my house. 

Jasmine: Awesome. So the truth is, and it's not fair, but it is a truth for many people... when they look at people who look like me and people who look like you, they don't necessarily see “elected representative.” In fact, I can tell you when I knock on doors or when I tell people like, “Hey, I'm your state representative,” one of the first things people say is like, “Really?” And I'm like, “Yeah, I am your state representative!” And so when you were campaigning, the first time you ran, did you have to deal with anything like that? Like any sexism or racism or even ageism? 

Mari: Yeah, I definitely did. I think all of those, all three of those things really played into some of the questions that I received on the campaign trail. When I started running for office, I was 24 years old. So, you know, I had people ask ridiculous questions. Like, “are you even allowed to vote? Like, are you even old enough to vote?”

And so yeah, I really was like, “Yeah, I don't look like a candidate. And honestly, it's a good thing because we need more people who, you know, are living in these experiences. We need more millennials in public office. We need people of all different backgrounds and ages, you know, age brackets and everything, so we can properly reflect and represent the people that we serve.”

Jasmine: So you're not running for reelection this year. And just curious, why did you decide not to continue to run?

Mari: You know, I'm turning 30 in a couple of weeks actually. And honestly, I decided to sort of take stock of, you know, what I'd like the next decade of my life to look like. I kind of made the decision that, wow, it's been an incredible honor and a privilege to serve in this very public capacity. But I'd really like to spend the next few years taking the time to, you know, care for myself and, and, and be with my family and little bit live a little bit less of a public life.

Rachel: So going into the election, I'm sure you're gonna continue to be active politically. What are you hearing from your constituents and also your friends in Michigan? It's a swing state and it's a lot of different views. What are you hearing are the most important issues to your constituents?

Mari: Honestly right now in Michigan, what's super top of mind is access to reproductive health care and particular abortion services. We believe that's gonna be a huge galvanizing force to turn folks out. And, and also, I would say, you know, in coupling with that, just the nature of Republican extremism on nearly all issues whether it's education or what. There's a library in Michigan, for example, folks tried to ban certain books. And now they've raised over a hundred thousand dollars in the community to keep the library open. 

So, you know, just overall the Republican party has gone so extreme on literally every single issue that regular people are seeing that those issues are not how regular people live their lives. So that's what I would say is, is really just generally the galvanizing thing that is making folks wanna turn out this election cycle.

Rachel: You know, Mari, I just, I wanna thank you for your service. Both my husband and I really are very involved in advocating for public service. Public service. It doesn't have to be running for office, but it can be. But I think the beauty of your story is you served two terms and now you're gonna go and serve in a different way. And it just shows, you're not gonna serve forever. I mean, if someone does, that's great too, bu it doesn't have to be something you have to be on all the time to make a big, big difference. 

So it's such an example, I think, for people to see it doesn't have to be a lifestyle for the rest of forever. But when it's time to stand up and do it, you did. And it’s very, very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing your story all. 

Mari: Aww. Well, thanks everyone. Thanks for having me. This was really fun.

Jasmine: Now we're gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll have my conversation with A'shanti Gholar.

BREAK

Jasmine: Our guest today is the President of Emerge, an organization dedicated to recruiting and training democratic women to run for office. She is a grassroots organizer and the host of The Brown Girl’s Guide to Politics. A'shanti Gholar, welcome to The Suburban Women Problem.

A'shanti Gholar: Hello, thank you so much Jasmine and everyone for having me.

Jasmine: You've been an organizer and an activist for quite a bit of time. So how did you first get involved in politics and organizing? What drew you to organizing and into this type of work? 

A'shanti: Well, I did not grow up in a super political family. They voted, that's about it. And my story actually starts when I was a young girl. I was on the couch, watching TV with my mom, and I do what young kids do: I change the channel when she got up and left. And I turned it to something that I wanted to watch. And that is when I discovered CSPAN. And I was like, “What is happening here?” You had all these people arguing and fighting about making the country better. I'm like, “why do I have to watch kid shows? I could just watch this.” 

I was so intrigued by this thing called politics, even though I didn't know that was the name of it. And even at that young age though, I realized I didn't see a lot of people that look like me. I didn't see a lot of women. I didn't see a lot of people of color. So I even just then thought, “could I participate in this scene that I'm watching?”

Fast forward, my love of politics remained. I'm in high school, and I had an amazing government teacher, Mrs. King. And that year we had a very hotly contested US Senate race, and she brought in both candidates, the Democrat and the Republican. My issue was the minimum wage. I worked a part-time job to have extra money. I had friends that worked jobs to have extra money to support their family. I thought that people should have a fair wage. 

I asked the Democratic candidate his position on the minimum wage, of course he was for raising it. And I'm like, “My guy, love you. Great.” I asked the Republican who was actually a Congressman at the time, why he voted not to raise the minimum wage. And he said, “Oh no, I voted to raise it.” I said, “You didn't.” He said, “I did.” I said, “You didn't!” And he starts arguing back and forth with me and he says, “You're wrong. You don't know what you're talking about.” So being a young high school girl, I say, “You know what? You're not that hot, your tie's ugly, and I hope you lose.”

Jasmine: Oh, wow. 

A’shanti: So the next day I come in and my teacher pulls me over, Mrs. King, and I'm like, “Oh no, I'm in trouble now.” And she says that he called her and he told her, “So, she's right. I didn't vote to raise it. I didn't like that she called me out.” And I was just infuriated. I said, “Is it because I'm young? Because I'm a girl? Because I can't vote?” And all of those things were true. I was young, I was a girl, and I couldn't vote. But I could volunteer. So I volunteered for the democratic candidate with every free moment that I had. And he won that US Senate race with less than 500 votes.

Jasmine: Wow. 

A’shanti: And that showed me the power that we have to really get out there and support the candidates that we care about and influence other people's vote. I didn't have a vote, but people saw me out there just really going hard for this candidate and I was able to get them to vote for him and hence my future.

So I went from watching all of these people on CSPAN, wondering “could I be like them? Could I be in this world?” to actually having a career in this political world.  

Jasmine: That is an amazing story, like from beginning to end, that is such an amazing story. And I think the part that amazes me the most about that story is there is a little girl right now watching what's going on in our country. And that same process is about to start in that little girl today. And we don't know her yet, but something is going to trigger her to say, “I'm not backing down. I am going to not only get into politics, but I'm gonna lean into politics because I want to affect some type of change.” 

So that is such an amazing story. And as a mom of a 13 year old, who's very social justice oriented, I just love to see that you basically took a situation, an adverse situation where someone tried to demean you in front of others, and you took that moment and you took that energy and you put it into showing them… “Not only do I know my stuff, but you are gonna know my stuff.” And so I love that.  

A'shanti: I'm like, “Sir, I can look up your vote!” 

Jasmine: Right! He probably didn't think you knew how to do that. 

A'shanti: Exactly. And it's just the way women get dismissed in politics, the way young people get dismissed in politics. And it's the reason why I also created the Brown Girl’s Guide to Politics is because I wanted other Black and brown and indigenous women, women of color, to know that they belonged here. Because I would have so many young women reaching out to me saying “I like politics, but I don't know how to get involved.” And that was me once. So I really wanted to create that platform to pay it forward and let them know right from the jump that you belong here, there is space for you and don't let anyone try to take that away from you. 

Jasmine: Right. I love that. And that actually brings me to my next question. So one thing that we want to talk about today, and it's something that I personally have dealt with as a person who is a person of color and also someone who has run for office, is just to think about how differently women are treated when they run for office in general, and then add on to that women of color and how differently they are treated and how much more of an uphill battle it is for people who look like me and you to get into these spaces. So what are some of the ways that women of color face an uphill battle when they try to run for office? 

A'shanti: If we just look at our political system from the beginning, this system was built for white land owning men. They never anticipated the participation of women. They never anticipated the participation of people of color. So what we are doing is playing in a system that was not built for us. And if we look at the majority of office holders right now, 75% are white men. Even with all the progress that we have been making with getting more women elected, we are nowhere near parity.

Women, we're 51% of the population, we should hold 51% of those offices. And when it comes to recruitment, people really look first to their network and most people's network really looks like them, right? So you do get white people. You get white men and white women. Women of color, especially Black women, are always at the bottom of who people think should be running for office and who's an elected official. Because when we say those words, “Are they electable? Are they viable?” That's really code for straight white men. So women have a disadvantage and women of color have double the disadvantage. They have the sexism and the misogyny, and then you're gonna throw in some racism, and if they're a Black woman, you're gonna throw in some anti-Blackness. It is very real.

People do not think that women of color are able to represent people outside of women of color. And I've had a lot of conversations lately where I'm like, it's just completely antiquated to say that people of color cannot represent districts that are not majority people of color, right? 

Jasmine: When no one would say the opposite.

A'shanti: Nothing, no one ever says anything. I mean, let's keep it real here. No one ever says anything when a white person wants to run in a district that is majority people of color, right. All you ever hear is like, “oh, they will do so much good work there.” But when it's a person of color, a woman of color, it’s like, “How are you gonna be able to relate to people?” Well, I'm still human. I'm a person. This is my community. These are my neighbors. I'm able to relate, right? Because the same issues that they're dealing with are the same issues that I'm dealing with. 

So when women of color run, they immediately face that barrier of… no one is thinking of them. They don't get recruited to run for office. They don't get asked to run for office. So overall, what women of color are dealing with is from the minute you say, I want to run for office. is people thinking, “Well, you're not what an elected official looks like.” And this is why it's so great that we have women like you, because you are what an elected official looks like. And we're disrupting that status quo. 

And that also scares so many people, like, what are things gonna look like when there's more women in office? What are things gonna look like when there's more women of color in office? It's gonna look like inclusion. It's gonna look like diversity. it's going to look like what our country looks like.

Jasmine: Exactly. Yeah. You know, you've said a mouthful. I will say, as someone who has run for office, someone who has been elected, I remember my journey to being a candidate started with me, you know, kind of introducing myself and then people trying to figure out ways to make me “electable.” So they said things like, “You gotta lean in on the fact that you have a PhD, cause then people will respect you.” You know, things like that. And of course they meant that in a positive way, but in my mind it was like, you have to have so many more letters behind your name and so many more checkboxes clicked for people to see you as a candidate that is viable enough. And I did not see my white counterparts having those same conversations about how to prop up my resume in a manner that makes people take me seriously. And those usually were the words, “take me seriously.” 

So my next question for you is like, How can people support women candidates? And I know we have donating and I know we have volunteering, but what are some ways that our listeners, no matter where they are, what are some ways that they can support women running for office?

A'shanti: I mean, the biggest thing is to ask the women in your life to run for office. So I'm asking every woman who's listening to this to run for office. That's the best thing that we can do for one another as women, is say, “Hey, I believe in you. You should be the one on the dais making these decisions, engaging in the debate, because the other people are failing us.” And we have to be so honest, so many of our elected officials are failing us. 

So the first thing is ask women in your life to run for office. And when those women are running for office, we know that donating and the volunteering, as you said, but check in on them. Make sure that they're doing okay. One of the things that I love about Congresswoman Katie Porter is she says her favorite food on the campaign trail is cooler food. It's when she comes home from a day of canvassing and the moms in the neighborhood have left food on her porch for her and her kids. So she doesn't have to worry about what she has to make for dinner that night as a single mom. When we have that type of support, that's going to help single mothers want to run for office, knowing that they're gonna come home and hey, there's the food for dinner. Or, oh my gosh, I don't wanna be the mom at the soccer game who's bringing in the cupcakes from the store. Help the mom make the cupcakes so they're there for the kids. You know, check on her to see how she's doing health wise - that's mentally, physically. Are there errands that I can run for you? I think those things that, while they may seem so simple, help out so much.

And then just prop her up when she's on the campaign trail. If she is talking about something that resonates well with you and your community, retweet it, share it, let people know what she's doing. When you see someone unfairly criticizing her, point it out and say, “Hey, that is actually not true. This is what she stands for. You can find it on this part of her website.” If she's already elected and running for reelection, you can go check her voting history and see everything that she has done. Help her fight back against the misinformation that's going to be out there about her running. 

So it's just really personal things that show that you care that can help out a woman candidate so much. Like the volunteering, the door knocking, the canvasing, the donating is very important, but at the end of the day, this is still a human being. A person who has stepped up to serve their country. And that's what I say elected officials are doing. Women, you're serving your country. Help them out and show them support in just little ways that let them know, “I see you. I'm here for you. Let me know how I can support you.” 

Jasmine: I love that. I love that. So, as we said earlier, you are the president of Emerge. So can you tell our listeners a little bit about Emerge and the work that you do?

A'shanti: Yes. So I am the president of Emerge. I came on in February of 2020 as the first Black woman to lead the organization. I like to joke that a global pandemic was not a part of my 90 day plan, but I absolutely love leading this organization. And what attracted me to Emerge that made me wanna get involved is its focus on recruiting and training Democratic women to run for office, doing it by building affiliates, which means you're building infrastructure on the ground. 

And what also makes this unique with the affiliate structure, building infrastructure, is we demystify what it takes to run for office through our signature training program. We break it all down. “All right. You're running for city council. Where do you go to file? How do you build this campaign team? How do you set up a canvas? How do you do fundraising?” Like women, you already have the qualities that it takes to run for office. And I wanna be very clear with that because so many people like to be, “These are the qualities that you must have.” Women have those qualities. What we do is when you wanna step up and run for office, we just teach you what you need to know. And we enhance all of the great things about you. And you become a part of our network. 

We've trained over 5,000 women to run for office. Over half of them have been elected to office and currently a thousand of them are serving in elected office. And that includes our first indigenous cabinet secretary, Deb Haaland, our first Asian woman mayor of Boston, Michelle Wu. So I actually get to wake up every day and be inspired by all of these amazing women who are serving their country. And this year we have over 800 alums that are running and we expect for at least 500 to 600 to be on the ballot in November. We had primaries last night and that includes Vermont. Vermont has not sent a woman to Congress, and the first woman that they could send to Congress is an Emerge alum, Becca Balint. So we are so excited about the work that we do. 

Jasmine: I love that. Now we're getting to my favorite part of the interview, which is where we ask our guests a few rapid fire questions. Okay, first question. What's your favorite drink of choice after a long day?

A'shanti: After a long day, I'm gonna have some brown liquor, for sure. If it's a really long day.

Jasmine: Yes! Yes. I am a brown liquor girl too. Bourbon. 

A'shanti: Yes! Yes. Like if it's a long, hard day, that's what I'm having. 

Jasmine: All right. Next question. What's the last thing that made you laugh out loud?

A'shanti: I'm going to actually say all of these memes that are going around regarding the search of Mar Lago and Trump's reaction. I have been laughing a lot, because it was a search, not a raid, and the DOJ was doing their job. And frankly, it's actually Trump who made it a law that you couldn't take classified information.

So there's that. 

Jasmine: It is kind of hilarious. Okay. So if you had to choose a totally different job, one that wasn't in politics, what would it be?

A'shanti: I would be an astrologist. I absolutely love astrology. We have a full moon in Aquarius coming upon us, but I would be A'shanti the astrologist.  

Jasmine: I love it. That has a nice ring to it. I love it. Um, so what's your favorite comfort movie?

A'shanti:  Oh my goodness. I love The Mummy. It's just, it's action, it's funny, and I just, when I turn that one on, I just know I'm always gonna have a good laugh. For me, the jokes don't get old. So I'm just like, I'm just gonna turn on The Mummy and enjoy my day.

Jasmine: I love that. All right. Last question. What advice would you give your younger self? 

A'shanti: Just to believe in myself. I don't think that I did a lot of that when I was younger, just not seeing a lot of women of color and politics. So it'd be to believe that there's space for you in politics. 

Jasmine: You know what? That's very similar to what I would tell myself, which is stop talking yourself out of things.

All right, A'shanti. That's the end of our rapid fire questions. Where can people go to find out more about you and Emerge?

A'shanti: You can find Emerge on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at emerge America. The website is emergeamerica.org. You can find me on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @AshantiGolar. 

Jasmine: Love. Well, thank you again so much for stopping by The Suburban Women Problem. 

A'shanti: Thank you. Thank you so much.

BREAK

Amanda: Welcome back everyone! Jasmine, I loved your interview with A'shanti. And the story about what inspired her to really question the GOP congressman and then help organize against him and he lost is just amazing. And I think it kind of fits into this, this narrative, I feel, of women of color… if you have any emotion or anger, it's, you know, taken, it's used against you. And I think it's funny because then what I think that means is we see women and people of color end up really drilling down to the issues and how it matters for families. And I feel like they’re so good at that, even better at that, because they can't just use this flippant emotion, and they're less emotional than a lot of these representatives like we see, you know, with this congressman.

Jasmine: Or we show less emotion. 

Amanda: That's true. 

Jasmine: Yes. We show less emotion, but we lead with policy cause that's we have to do, we have to prove that we belong there. 

Rachel: You have to be there and be tough, but then you can't be too tough because then you're manly. I mean, again, we gotta talk about it. If we don't talk about it, we're never gonna change it. 

Jasmine: Yeah. It's like one of those things where you gotta run a tight ship, but if you run too tight of a ship, then you're, you know, too aggressive and all this stuff.  

Rachel: Then the Washington Post is gonna write all kinds of articles about how your office is in disarray when you're the Vice President.

Amanda: Because you asked for a pen! The audacity of the vice president needing a pen.

Jasmine: Oh my gosh. Or people to be on time. Oh, I expect people to be on time. I am a horrible person. Yeah. So let's talk about something happy. This is a point where we do our Toast to Joy, where we talk about something happy or inspiring that has happened to us during the week.

And so Rachel, let's start with you. What is your Toast to Joy?

Rachel: Well, I have been in Oklahoma for a long weekend to visit my grandma and see my family. And I have to tell you, the upcoming Republican primary for many seats is a little bit unhinged. The commercials are off the charts. Um, as I, I think I described to you guys, it’s like MAGA bingo: the “godless Democrats,” the “woke left,” the, I don't know, “socialism.” Like they have all these words and all the commercials, they don't even make sense. It's just word salad. 

So my Toast to Joy is to all of the listeners we have out there that live in these red places that have to listen to that but maintain your optimism. And even when you're not optimistic, that you still work and that you still hold that hope in your heart. Because if you're working, it means that you think, you know, there's a possibility of hope. Even if you're just listening to this podcast, you are trying to find people who are like-minded. And I hope you're doing more than that, but I wanna tell you to hold on, find people who are like you, work with them. 

Even if you're someone where your district is an R+88… run, support the people who are running, so that others can see that you are there and you exist and you can be an inspiration. If we hold on, guys, we're gonna get our country back on track and what we want it to be. Don't let them control this. Don't let the other side take away your hope in this great American experiment in self-governance. 

Amanda: And even though losing sucks, like I get that, however, it is important for those people who are running to magnify the message of the Democratic party and to be speaking to people who don't often get spoken to by the Democratic party. And that is a really important thing that we kind of downplay. 

And I would also say, so the New Yorker had a really good article about Ohio and how gerrymandered it is. When you hear stories about Ohio and the crazy extreme legislation we have, it does not represent Ohioans. Most Ohioans are much more moderate than the news stories you hear about us. Like, cause I've seen it on Twitter. Some people are like, “well, that's what you voted for.” No. 

Jasmine: No, we didn't. 

Amanda: No. That's not what we voted for. And most people don't want this. But we are under these gerrymandered maps.

Jasmine: And we fix it by not checking out, but by leaning in. Like you lean in and it's not gonna be an overnight fix, and that's super frustrating when everything isn't magically fixed overnight, but we still lean in and, and, and look toward the future. 

Rachel: With that, Amanda, what is your Toast to Joy this week? 

Amanda: So we went as a family to my daughter's camp. They had family camp and we got to stay the weekend there. And it was really fun for me to get to see the camp. And I got to see some of her counselors and see her interact with them. She had made a little camp bestie. So her camp bestie was there with her family and it was super fun to see. 

So my daughter tends to be a little bit on the shy side. And so, you know, first time at camp, I feel like it could have gone either way where she loved it or hated it. And she absolutely loved it. And I could see why the camp really had this way of building this cultural connection to the Jewish community, where she was in the majority. She's not usually in the majority. And she really got to build this connection and these bonds with a bunch of other people that doesn't often happen. And so I saw the importance of that culture and when we make these social bonds and, you know, connections with other people, how it can really strengthen a community and strengthen her as a person. 

My Toast to Joy is to Camp Wise. I was so impressed. All right, Jasmine, what is your Toast to Joy? 

Jasmine: So my Toast to Joy is just to momentum in general. As we've talked about on today's podcast, I am running for reelection and this weekend we had a fundraiser. And the fundraiser was actually hosted by a representative that's in a very, very, very safe seat. But she has a big network. And so what she decided to do was to hold a joint fundraiser where she raised money for myself and another candidate that's in an area that has a potential to flip blue, but we, we don't know yet. It's an open seat after redistricting. And also for our democratic caucus. One of the things that really stood out to me was just the camaraderie and the sense of collaboration. So we get the blue wave when those in safe districts are rising tides for others.  

Amanda: I love that. That is such a good point because you have a lot of people in safe districts who feel very strongly and passionately about what's happening in our country, in their state. And they think, “what can I do?” And it might be, you know, canvas in the district next to you that's super competitive. Like that really needs that volunteering. So. Such a good point.

Jasmine: All right. Well, thanks so much to everyone for joining us today. If you're enjoying the show, please share it with someone you know. We'll see you again next week on another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.