Inclusion Isn’t A Drag (with Tara Hoot and Cress Barnes)

We’re not afraid to tackle any topic on this podcast, and this week that topic is drag. It’s a new year, but right-wing extremists keep reading from the same old playbook, trying to find boogeymen to scare us… especially suburban women. Armed right-wing extremists have been showing up to protest drag storytime events, which seems far more traumatizing for a child than a princess reading them a book could ever be. So much for the party of personal choice.

The hosts are joined by Cress Barnes, a mom in North Carolina who’s had to deal with threats and calls to shut down her restaurant because she hosts family-friendly drag events. Cress talks about why it’s important to provide inclusive spaces, some misconceptions about drag, and how she always tries to lead with kindness. When she threw a "not a protest" party to celebrate diversity in her town, hundreds of people showed up to support her and the LGBTQ community... and the right-wing extremists were nowhere to be found.

Then Jasmine interviews Tara Hoot, a drag queen who regularly hosts storytime events for kids. Tara is a teacher and a parent, so events that bring joy to kids and parents alike has always been a passion. They discuss what exactly drag is, why drag events have become such a popular target, and why it’s so important for kids to see themselves and their experiences reflected in the books they read and the events they attend.

Finally, Amanda, Jasmine and Rachel raise a glass to not-so-expensive eggs, favorite flowers, and moms standing up for inclusive playgrounds in this episode’s “Toast to Joy.”

First Ron DeSantis passed "Don't Say Gay." Then he banned discussions about racism with the "Stop Woke Act." Now he’s banned AP African American History in the state of Florida. If you want to stand up for education, we encourage you to sign our letter to the Florida Board of Education here.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSA

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Transcript

The Suburban Women Problem - Season 3, Episode 2

Jasmine: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Jasmine Clark.

Amanda: I'm Amanda Weinstein.

Rachel:  I'm Rachel Vindman.

Jasmine: And you're listening to the Suburban Women Problem. So it's a new year, but right wing extremists keep reading from the same old playbook, trying to find boogeymen to scare us, especially us suburban women. And drag story time events are some of the most popular targets right now. Even with guns, which is just crazy. 

So I was super excited to have a conversation with a drag queen named Tara Hoot, who also happens to be a teacher, about her drag story time events. I super enjoyed this conversation. It was so enlightening, and I think one of the things that I really found like, the most enlightening about this conversation was just the fact that it is really about caring for other people, and so it just makes it all the more insane to me that there are others out there that would take something that really is just about caring and inclusiveness and try to tear that down.

But before that, we'll be joined by Cress Barnes. Cress is a mom in North Carolina who's had to deal with threats and calls to shut down her restaurant because she hosts family friendly drag events. 

But before we get to all that, how are you guys doing and what's been blowing up our group chat lately?

Amanda: First of all, can I just say we are not afraid to take on any topic on the suburban women problem and I am here for it.

Jasmine: Amen to that. Yes. It's definitely one that I think a lot of people try to shy away from because it makes some people a little squirmy, some people a little uncomfortable. But that's really like, one of the reasons why I really enjoyed my conversation with Tara, and I know y'all get to hear it later, but it's not supposed to be that, it's actually supposed to be the opposite. It's just entertainment. Like it's just fun. It's like, it's not like this big thing. I just think in America we're just so, like, suppressed. 

Amanda: Little prudish. 

Rachel: It’s that puritanical... 

Amanda: Yeah. Yes. We're all about the Puritans.

Rachel: Why do people care so much what others are doing? Like it's just this, how did you have that much energy to worry about what other people do with their lives? 

Amanda: We had, they do a drag story event here, and I think it was at, it was at a church and people showed up with guns to prevent it from happening because the protestors thought guns were more safe for children than drag queens reading a story to them, which is just insane, especially when you see the news every day with children dying, people dying from shootings, and they're bringing guns to children instead of drag queens.

Jasmine: When I think about these events, They're not mandatory . There's no one saying you have to go to this event–

Amanda: No! Not mandatory!  

Jasmine: Basically you have Parent A over there, who is opposed to drag for whatever reason, and they’ve decided that parent B, who they have nothing to do with, can't take their child to something just because you don't want to. And it's like, why? Why are you trying to dictate other people's lives in this manner? And to your point, Rachel, that's got to be exhausting. Like, I have a hard enough time running my own house. Like now you wanna run mine too?

Rachel: I'm gonna, I just think that… not to get hyperbolic or, you know, ridiculous, but truly… Where do they stop? And why do they get to decide what's okay for everyone? This is where it just really concerns me and you know, when you normalize this kind of behavior, it's disconcerting cause now it's drag queens. What if next, no child can be a vegetarian? I mean, right? I don't really know how ridiculous that is, to be honest, because I mean, there are people who feel really passionately about eating meat. 

Jasmine: Or, or the other way.

Amanda: Yeah. And some kids do too. So my kids like, they go through phases of, “I'm not eating meat.” And then sometimes they're like, “yeah, I'll take that pepperoni.” Like they go through phases and I'm fine with the phase, but I don't want somebody else telling me what my kids can or can't do or can or can't read or can or can't eat.

And we're doing this, like if you look in Florida, where, you know, Florida's using Ron DeSantis’ Stop Woke Act to block a proposed AP African-American Studies program. Right? So if you don't want your child in that AP program, no child has to be in it. It is elective. And you're taking that away from many children who did want that program. And let's be clear, this is taking away valuable information about our country's history that kids were asking for. 

Jasmine: A person who is in a position of leadership, they are the highest leadership position in an entire state, one of the largest states in our country… to have them write an official public statement that straight up says “African American studies lacks educational value”? 

Amanda: And that's the only one they picked, right? There's no other. 

Jasmine: Yeah. And it's enough that this has been the history of our nation, but right now, in the Year of our Lord 2023, we have leaders saying, “Your history, studying your life or the life of prominent African-American figures, studying, you know, things that are important to African-American culture…” cause that's what it, when we talk about Studies, it's more than just the history. It's, it's all of it. It's cumulative. It's a, it's bigger than that. And to say it “lacks educational value,” it's a gut punch. I know it was a gut punch to me. 

I know that there are a lot of people out there right now that are basically like the government, cause let's be clear, Ron DeSantis is the government, he is the governor, says studying Black people lacks educational value, and I just can't get over that. It makes me wanna fight hard. But I will say there were moments where I kind of had that, like “this guy just got reelected for four years and this is his, this is the start. Like this is like one of the first things he's done since being reelected, is to basically tell Black people, ‘we don't value you.’”  

Amanda: And let's be clear, he doesn't have the qualifications, right? This should be something that any leader or policymaker should say, “You know what? I don't have training in educating children, so maybe I will leave this up to the experts who have been trained in this.” For them to determine what has educational value to our students and listen to our students, what our students are choosing has educational value to themselves. 

And it's not gonna stop here, right? This is just, you know, one of their first ways of taking education away from our kids. And I worry about this for a lot of our programs, for what our history classes cover, what our classes cover in general. So even right now I'm teaching an urban economics course, which is tagged as a course that covers domestic diversity because we cover topics like redlining and racial segregation in neighborhoods, and I can only imagine what some policymaker who wants to, you know, make some point about these culture wars, could say about my course. And almost any course. You can find a politician who doesn't like something about a health class, anything. This is definitely headed in the wrong direction for our country and our kids. 

Rachel: Very dangerous.

Jasmine: It really is. It really is. Actually in some places they are starting to target any classes that teach anything like that. So I don't know if it's made it to Ohio yet, Amanda, but it is definitely happening here in Georgia. I know it's happening in some other states as well, where lawmakers are asking for syllabi and basically targeting those courses that tackle these difficult topics. 

So I had my moment and other people who are listening, you probably have your moments where you're like, “I don't even know. I don't even know what I can do. I don't even know what's going on in our country right now.” But after I have my moment, I have, you know, kind of reconciled. We keep fighting, we keep having these conversations. And two years from now we got some work to do. That work starts now though, and we don't wait two years. It starts now so that we can get our country back on track. We did ward off the big red wave and we were celebrating all that, but the truth is, even though it wasn't a big red wave, the reds still are running the ship right now. So we still gotta deal with all that comes with that.  

Amanda: We need to also understand how it impacts us, right? School board is one that as long as you have people talking about how this is actually gonna impact you and your kids, I think that is one where you can get in there and you can really make a change, right? I don't want books banned for my kids. I don't want you taking AP anything away from my kid, right? That should be my decision and my kid's decision. 

So I think we need to think about every election and every race that way, right? Thinking about “how does this affect me and my community and my country.” I don't want my country overthrown by a band of crazy protesting, you know, white men. I don't want my economy overthrown. Because that's what's next on their list. 

When you look at something like the debt ceiling… so if you think about what the debt ceiling is, it basically gives you a max amount that you're allowed to essentially pay back what you've already spent. So it's kind of like on your credit card bill saying something like, “you know what? I know I had to put $3000 in my credit card bill last month because all my appliances broke.” Which did happen to me. But it's saying, “You know what? I decided I'm not gonna pay it. I know I've already spent it and I needed to because it was an emergency, but I'm just not gonna pay my credit card bill.” That's what the debt ceiling is. And by not making the debt ceiling higher, it's not agreeing to pay what we have agreed to pay and what we owe. And Republicans will use that as leverage and it is huge leverage because if we don't raise a debt ceiling, we default. It's like not paying our credit card bills. And for something as big as us to not pay our credit card bills, that could completely tank our entire financial system and throw us into a recession, which I think they're willing to do and overthrow our economy just to get what they want. 

Rachel: A hundred percent they're willing to do that.

Jasmine: Which is weird though, cause I mean, what type of like, flex is it to be like, “We're gonna tank the economy to get no spending.” Like what? What it, it's all backwards. Like everything that they think they're gonna accomplish is going to be the opposite of what they're accomplishing.  

Amanda: No. t's like, yeah. It's like if my husband and I disagree on which couch to buy, and I’m like, “well I'm gonna burn the house down if you don't buy me the couch I want.”

Jasmine: Exactly. Exactly. 

Rachel: Terrible. But we have to believe that they will do this because they have shown time and time again that they don't care. And I think that goes all the way down. If you elect a crazy person, don't think that just because they have kids in that school district that they're gonna be okay. That they're not going to make… they could even make rules against their own children if they don't like who they are or what they represent or, or what's important to them.

Jasmine: I definitely think, whether it is book bans, whether it is the quote party of personal choice trying to take people's choices away, whether it is, you know, armed people trying to turn away people from events because they don't wanna go to the event, so they somehow decide that no one should be able to go because they don't wanna go. There's a recurring theme here. 

And now we're gonna bring up a mom who's dealt firsthand with these extremists protesting drag shows at her restaurant. So let's bring Cress onto the show. Cress, welcome to the podcast.

Cress Barnes: Hey, thank you for having me. I'm so excited. 

Jasmine: We are so excited to have you on today. So, let's just get started by having you tell us about your restaurant and specifically the attacks you've experienced over your drag events. 

Cress: So 20 years ago, my husband and I started a store in Charlotte, North Carolina called The Common Market, and we raised our three boys there. They're all grown now. And we were always very open. We'd always worked in clubs and we've always been allies. We don't know how to run our business any other way. 

So, fast forward to now. We moved out of Charlotte, which is a city and it's urban, and so it was a shock for us when we moved further out of Charlotte into a smaller town where we opened up the same kind of business called East Frank. My husband was like, “Well, hey, we did drag events in Charlotte, why not bring it to Monroe, North Carolina?” Which is where we are now, which is super conservative. 

It was great! Like we were giving people in this area who are open-minded and who love to be entertained, a place to come. So it went on for months, no problems. We did drag bingo. It was super fun. And then one of our friends brought his son, who is about six, and there was a drag queen singing a song that the child knew, and the drag queen scooped him up and they sang together and someone posted a photo. I loved it. I thought it was one of the most beautiful photos I've ever seen. The crowd behind them, everyone was having a good time. The child was happy. 

It was just beautiful, but apparently that is not beautiful to everyone, and it just went crazy. People started calling us groomers and pedophiles. I was a preschool teacher for, a pre-K teacher and preschool, for 10 years, and I've got three sons. I was like, “How can you even accuse me of something like that when you've never met me, you've never talked to me, any of those things?” So we started getting attacked online and it became emails saying, “You're gonna regret you ever moved here. We're gonna run you out of town.” 

And fortunately, our store in Monroe, our motto is, “Sees all, serves all.” So we have lots of people who come in who know we do drag on certain nights so they just don't come cause it's not their thing, which is what most normal people do when they don't like something.

Jasmine: Yes! Just don't go! I don't like hotdogs, so I will not go on hotdog night! 

Cress: Yeah. So I was getting screenshots of where they were gonna meet, what day they were gonna come, what time it was gonna be a “freedom train” and they were talking about wearing their Trump gear and their flags. And so I was like, “Cool.” So I just started, I let the news know what was happening and this was in the summer, and I said, “Guys. This is what's happening, but we're going to meet them in the street with a kindness counter-protest.” We ordered a giant cake that said, “This is not a protest cake,” and the community turned out. I mean, we had over 200 people out in front of our store on the street waiting for them, and they had four trucks and they never showed up.

Amanda: Nice! 

Jasmine: I love that.

Cress: So they didn't show up because they knew they were, I mean, it would just look foolish. We had our party and it was successful and it was such a gathering of love and kindness and acceptance. It was amazing. 

Rachel: And cake! 

Cress: And cake, yeah! And I mean, who's gonna say no to cake? And I was totally gonna give them some cake. 

Amanda: That sounds awesome. So you're in this new town, right? And it's a new community who isn't used to these types of events. What do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions that people have about drag?

Cress: Well, I had a hard time understanding what the problem was because 12 years ago we did a drag queen story hour at our store because the library canceled it. And now it's like such a hot button that it's just a sound bite. And I don't think it's about children. And I don't think it's about drag queens. I think it's, they're afraid of the normalization of homosexuality. And that's a normal thing! I have friends who are, you know, same sex couples and, and we've just raised our kids around it, and when I asked my teenage boys, I'm like, “What is the problem?” He's like, “It's an old people issue. He's like, kids don't care.” 

Jasmine: No, seriously. That is what my daughter says too. She's 14 and she's like, I got other things to worry about, it's not that big of a deal. 

Amanda: Right, exactly. No, the drag event will not make you gay. Like kids know this. 

Cress: Exactly. Well, that's one misconception right there. There's one. But the emails and, and comments I've been getting lately, you know, “how dare you let men wag their penises in young children's faces?”

Amanda: That's not a drag event! No, that's porn.

Jasmine: Yeah. I was about to say, what type of drag events are they going to? 

Cress: Well, that's what I thought. “Sweetie, where have you been going? Cause I need to know where you're going where that's happening.” And I never, ever reply with anything terrible. I'm a huge advocate of killing with kindness. And I'm always, even though I'm saying horrible things while I'm typing, I'm always like, “Well, you've never been to our shows and our drag queens are, you know, they're covered.” I mean, and that's not what a drag event is. These are entertainers, these are costumes and makeup and big wigs and songs and music.

And when they protest… they were actually protesting last weekend when we had a show, one was filming in the window and she never posted any of it, and I said, “Ask Laura why she has not posted what she filmed at the actual show?” And it's because she didn't see what she's telling you all that is happening.

Jasmine: Right, exactly. 

Amanda: I know! They're usually wearing more clothes than women typically wear, not less. Yes. 

Rachel: It reminds me of when I have a headache at night and I start googling and then all of a sudden I have some sort of tragic disease. That's what they've done with drag shows. They should just, yeah, maybe watch one or talk to a professional or something. Don't try to diagnose it yourself. 

Can you tell us a little bit like, what about parents whose kids were actually at, at the events? Or you know, maybe the little boy who was pulled up on stage? What is their reaction to all of this?

Cress: That guy, he had come in, it was his daughter and his son, and he's like, “Yeah, you guys can use that picture.” He's like, “We didn't even know it was drag night, and we just came in and then we ended up staying because it was so much fun.” You know? But I will say, being in a conservative county, a lot of parents that bring their kids… I did get an email from a gentleman who said, “I'm a conservative man. I've lived in this county my whole life. My son has come out to me as trans, and I see what you all are doing and I appreciate it. And even though I don't understand it, I'm trying because I love my son.” And he said, “We are gonna come in and my son can be his true self and I know he will be accepted.” 

And I just cried because I was like, why would it have to be one special place for that when it should just be everywhere? And I, it's so hard to imagine and, and I just wonder how people can treat other humans as less than. But most of the parents that come in are like, “we're really glad our kids have a safe place.” Our drag queens after the show will come out, we have drag queens from Tennessee and they are small town Tennessee, and they tell these kids, “You know, I went to high school and I was bullied and you are here and you are loved and you are accepted and you can be the person you wanna be, whether it be… whoever you are.” And they always talk to 'em. And they're just such nice guys and are so always so supportive.

There’s such a lack of support for the LGBT community in this county and other small towns that we're just this oasis and we never intended to be that oasis. We just wanted to be accepting like we've always been, wherever we've lived, and we became these beacons of hope. And then we became fighters because that's what we have to be to make sure that people have a safe place to come.

Jasmine: If I could have any wish, if I could wave my magic wand, my wish would be that inclusion is the norm. Like it's not something we have to strive for because being inclusive, being welcoming, understanding that we live in a colorful array, a mosaic of people and we all fit together beautifully.. It’s just, that's normal, right? I long for that day instead of us constantly having to battle for inclusiveness to where when you are inclusive, it's almost like you are something special. An anomaly. You're doing something special or amazing. So I just wanna say thank you so much for joining us today, Cress. It's been awesome. 

Cress: Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate you so much. 

Jasmine: Now we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back we'll have my interview with drag queen Tara Hoot.

BREAK

Jasmine: Our guest today is a glamorous and campy drag queen in Washington DC. In addition to bingo and trivia nights, she also hosts a Story Time Brunch for Kids. Tara Hoot, thank you so much for joining me on The Suburban Women Problem.

Tara: Darling, I'm so excited to be here. I've never done a podcast before, so let's see how this goes!

Jasmine: Oh, it's gonna be so much fun. Let's just start with the basics. There's been a lot of misinformation and misunderstandings lately about what exactly drag is and whether or not it's appropriate for kids. So let's just start with a super basic question. What is drag?  

Tara: So I think that's a great question and that's, drag can be a lot of things. So it's not, I'm not sure it's a simple question. So I think my favorite is RuPaul when he says “We're all born naked and the rest is drag.” I think we all play characters in our lives. We all play dress up every once in a while for whatever characters we're playing that day. So I think it's in a lot of ways performance art for me.

I'll speak from the “I” perspective from what I think drag is. For me, it's really kind of wrapping together a lot of my childhood cultural memories into a character that's gonna bring other people joy. So that's what I really look at drag as being. For me, it's a little part of Judy Garland, it's a little part of Mr. Roger's neighborhood, a little PeeWee's Playhouse and a little Old Hollywood glamor, just kind of wrapped up to help people understand how gorgeous they all can be. 

Jasmine: I love that. We have a place here in Atlanta that has, it's called Lips and they do like a drag show. It's so fun. I went there for my birthday one year, had an amazing time. 

All right, so you grew up in Indiana and now you're a professional drag performer in DC. So could you tell us how you got there and what drew you to the East coast and what drew you to drag?

Tara: My quote unquote real job is that I've, I've worked in schools for 25 years, so drag is sort of a secondary thing that came into play for me during the pandemic. It was something that I decided to do with my husband because we were gonna go crazy cause we were all stuck at home. And I was like, “well, I might as well... I've always wanted to do this. Let's put it together and let's do this!” 

So, but that doesn't answer your question about how did I end up here in Washington, DC. When I was 23 years old, I had graduated college, I taught for a year in Ohio, I graduated from a college in Ohio, and then I moved out east cause I had family here in Washington DC. And so that brought me here. I wanted to be in a more urban area, a place that was more accepting, a place that was more open. And I found that in Washington DC.

And the drag piece again is something I had always wanted to do. But I felt like the pandemic gave me a chance to explore that. So when people were doing sourdough bread starters and making masks, I bought 27 wigs and we went from there. So it's been quite the whirlwind of a journey of me starting with cooking shows in my kitchen to doing 12 shows a month at various places in DC.

 Jasmine: That's actually a super amazing story. It's kind of like everyone found their thing in the pandemic, and I love that you're like, “I just discovered that I, I love drag and that's just what I'm gonna do now.” I love that. 

All right. So we've had a lot of discourse on the right and it's become really dangerous around the LGBTQ community and they've really set their sights on drag performances and drag events. They're accusing people of grooming and pedophilia and all types of ridiculous verbs that are not happening, but that’s just what they've decided that they're just going to describe all of these things as. 

And so you actually host a drag story time for kids. We have that here in Georgia as well. Could you tell us more about drag story time and just kind of speak to some of these accusations and why they're so ridiculous? 

Tara: Yeah, it drives me nuts because I feel like, just as if you go to a club at 1:00 in the morning, what you see is gonna be very different than if you're going to a family restaurant at 10:30 for a story time brunch. Like, it's just ridiculous to compare. They’re art forms, it’s gonna be different in every situation. And, and I work at a restaurant for most of my gigs in DC called Crazy Aunt Helens. The owner really wanted to make a place where families would feel super comfortable and have something for families to do as, as we were kind of quote unquote coming out of the pandemic and kids were able to get vaccinated.

And the story time is my favorite event because, you know, kids can just have fun and they get to be told how beautiful and wonderful they are. And parents are excited to be told that they're beautiful and wonderful. And I do about 10 songs that match the books that I'm reading and it's just about celebrating everyone and celebrating who you are and to be comfortable with who you are.

And there's the Drag Story Hour sort of a national organization. And they are a really wonderful organization. I'm loosely tied to them. But the drag story hour is really important cause they work to bring drag… I shouldn't say, it's changed from “drag queen story hour” to “drag story hour” so they're more encompassing of more drag performers. And so they bring drag performers to public libraries and to parks and they partner with locally owned small bookstores to help bring awareness to local businesses. So there's a lot of really good work being done to just bring more joy to the world. 

Jasmine: It's very interesting cause you said you were a teacher and then you also said that drag story hour is one of your favorite things. I wonder if there's a, a little connection there. You just enjoy that aspect of it.

Tara: Yeah, I mean, I also have a child who's now 20. And so there is a, a piece of that that, you know, my drag persona, my drag character is a very family friendly drag character. Again, with drag performers, there are all sorts of types of performance art and ways that we kind of engage audiences. And for me, just given my whole history of working at schools, it's important for me to, to kind of have that as part of my, my shtick. 

And then, and I want people to feel like they're really welcomed and I have parents that will cry. There's one of my favorite books that I read to them and to the kids and it's about being brave, but the parents need to hear that too. And you know, you have parents that are bringing kids of all gender identities and, and beautiful humans that are coming to this, and they just want, I think, some affirmation too. And that's really important for me to provide that. You know, I do songs like Twinkle and Shine by Doris Day, or Reading Rainbow, or Space Unicorn… I pull things from my childhood. So it's all really fun music that's kid appropriate and it's getting kids up and moving and really celebrating who they are. 

Jasmine: I love that. I feel like every so often right wing extremists come up with a boogeyman and it seems to me like the new boogeyman of the week or the year or the month or the moment, whatever you wanna call it, is drag queens or drag performers. So what do you think it is about drag that they feel so threatened by? 

Tara: I was thinking about this. I, you know, I always say at the end of the day, I just wanna live my life and bring people joy, and I try to focus on what I can do to make the world a brighter place. And I don't know why people are fixated on that joy. You know, for folks that say they want less government intervention in their lives and X, Y, Z, they're quick to swoop in and say they want government intervention to cancel drag performances and drag shows. 

And it's really… you said boogeyman, and that's exactly what it is. They need something to focus on because they might be mad about something else in their lives. I mean, I wanna focus on healthcare for everyone, right? Make sure our roads are paved, our bridges aren't falling down. Make sure that unhoused have housing. So I think that there are all these wonderful things in the world that bring people joy and there are also all these important issues we should be focusing on that I don't understand. 

But throughout history, I feel like we look through history, there's always a scapegoat population that gets targeted. So I don't understand the fixation. I'm sure there’s think tank articles or something out there that talks about why they're all fixated with drag performers. But just live your life. Like, live your life. 

Jasmine: Yeah. I don't get it. I don't get it. I mean, every time I hear these, you know, people are like, “Oh, these drag performers are doing this and that,” and I'm kind of like, “How do you know? Like are you going to the show to see it and did something happen to you or did someone force you to sit in that story time?” I just don't know why we would make laws that say people can't have fun in the way they wanna have fun just because these other people don't like that kind of fun. It's just weird to me. 

Tara: Yeah. And I think, I mean, I think that it also shakes up what the expectations are. And it's something that maybe, I think the active drag can be challenging to people. I've had people walk out of the restaurant before because they didn't know that there was gonna be a drag performer there. And just people that are really uncomfortable. I think part of that is natural and I try to be as welcoming and approachable as possible, just so they can understand that it's about bringing more joy to the world.

Jasmine: I like that. I like it's just joy, and why do you not like joy? 

But of course when you're dealing with extremism, I think there's always a little bit of an element of danger. Do you ever worry about your safety, or if you have, have you had to put any safety measures in place at any of your events just to make sure you others performing or even the people coming to enjoy it are safe?

Tara: Yeah, I mean, I definitely always think about that. I think that I think about that a lot more when I'm in drag, you know, but being a gay male, you know, I've never felt comfortable holding my husband's hand in public. Like there are just certain things that I've been trained to do in my life for self-preservation.

Jasmine: That makes me sad. 

Tara: Right. But that's, but that's, I will, I just won't, right, like, hold hands or kiss or, or anything that's in a place that I'm, that might get a reaction. When I’m in drag, I definitely think about, “oh, is there an exit?” Right? 

So DC, around DC a lot of Proud Boy organizations have sort of targeted certain story times if they're in public places. I did one at a farmer's market in DC and there was a group called the Parasol Patrol and some other folks that were just kind of wanting to make sure that I was gonna be okay. So they showed up. And the Parasol Patrol goes to these events with rainbow flags and rainbow umbrellas, and they're there to support and to make sure that the drag performers feel like they're safe and get them to their performance space safely.

And, and just seeing them there… and there were no, there were no protestors, but seeing the supporters there and then a mass of parents and kids that were there too, that just wanted to see that was super…. I mean, it's, it makes me get misty eyed, you know, I cry everything to begin with, but that's, it's just, it was super sweet to see that support. 

Jasmine: Yeah. You know, drag events aren't the only thing that extremists have been targeting. They're also trying to ban LGBTQ books like Gender Queer and All Boys Aren't Blue. It just really makes me angry when I think about this because I just think about things from the standpoint of, I want my children to have access to certain things that maybe someone else doesn't, and I wouldn't want that taken away from them just because someone else doesn't like it.

And so I just wanna hear from you, like, why do you think it's important for kids to have access to these kinds of books or events like a drag story hour?

Tara: I think we all wanna see ourselves and our children represented in some way. And getting rid of books with queer representation won't get rid of queer people, right? We're still gonna be around, we're still gonna thrive despite attacks and despite them trying to bring us down. 

But I think it's so important to have books like that, events like that, that really provide windows and mirrors for people. You know, I use that all the time. I want to see myself reflected, you know, when I teach children I want them to see themselves reflected. I'm a white cis male. Like, I don't reflect everyone, right? So it's important for them to have other role models in their lives that reflect who they are. And they also provide a window for people to learn something new about people. Right? Like, why shut out the beautiful world and all the diversity that's out there because you might be a little bit afraid cause you've never seen that before. 

So I think that it's important to have these resources. It's important to have these shows as that, as windows to, to learn more and mirrors so we all can see ourselves reflected. Certain populations in this country have always seen themselves reflected. And the moment that those mirrors start turning a little bit to reflect other folks… there are enough mirrors for everybody, right? To see themselves reflected. And then I think that's really important for us to keep making sure we're providing that.

Jasmine: I love that. Yeah. I love windows and mirrors. Another one of our guests used that analogy as well. I always love hearing that cause that's really what reading and learning is about is windows and mirrors. 

Tara: I mean, I'll never forget, 1992, in New Castle, Indiana when I was growing up, Real World New York– the first, the best and the only one that should have been– Norm Corby kissed a man at a DC event like protest march. And I was like, I had never seen that before on television. And I was just like, “What is that? That's me, right?” And so to see that, and I was in high school or to see RuPaul’s Supermodel music video on MTV, like those are the moments that, you know, parts of me that I didn't know necessarily were part of me until I saw that it actually exists in, in the larger world. So I can even remember moments like that growing up that were really important to, to who I am today. 

Jasmine: I love that. So you live in Washington DC, you support literacy organizations, I also see that you've supported things like the DC abortion fund. Do you see any connection between drag and politics?

Tara: Yeah. I think that it's what was important for me to, when I do story time, I feel like, I want to help different organizations as well. Like, you know, people buy tickets for my story time brunch. So they leave tips. So at least half of that will go to an organization that I partner with. A lot of it is literacy organizations in DC called An Open Book foundation. I also do there's one to help those that are unhoused in DC.

I think drag is political. I think being gay is political. LGBTQ. You know, because we've been made to have to be political. Right? Whether it was, I think with Eisenhower, the Lavender Scare, where they tried to purge the government, a federal government, of LGBTQ people. To Stonewall Riots led by trans and queer people of color to Reagan and the moral majority to like ignoring the AIDS crisis. Like that's a huge part of American history I feel like people, like kids or young adults, might not really know much about. I remember my brother, I have a twin brother too, and he lived in Michigan, when George W. Bush, one of the times he was elected, used state initiatives to get same-sex marriage on the ballot so that they could swoop in and get more Republicans to vote. 

So LGBTQ people have been used as a wedge, quote unquote wedge issue, for a long time, and I think it's important for us to know who our friends are. And who are, and who those are. Who, who those people are, who are trying to take away our humanity. The political voice and the political process is really important, you know to, to be involved in and to understand like, “what can I do?” 

Jasmine: Absolutely. Yes. I'm in politics, along with being a podcaster, I am also in politics, and I 100% agree with you. I am also a part of several groups that have been used as the wedge issue, or the scapegoat, or the boogeyman in any number of different ways in order to score political points. And so I completely understand where you're coming from, like from a real world “I've lived this as well” perspective.

So this has been super fun. But before we go, we always like to ask our guests a few rapid fire questions, so it's gonna be like a, a, a pop quiz. Are you ready? 

Tara: I am totally ready. Let's do this. 

Jasmine: All right, here we go. What's your favorite book to read to kids? 

Tara: It's one I alluded to earlier. It's called Be Brave Little One, and I change it sometimes to Be Brave Everyone, cause I want everyone to hear that message.

Jasmine: I love it. All right. What celebrity would you most like to make over as a drag queen? 

Tara: There are many, many, but I'm gonna say somebody who I've always had kind of a little crush on. It's Andy Samberg. He's just adorable, and he seems like he’d be totally game for that. So I'd be like, Andy Samberg, let's get you, let's get you all dolled up.

Jasmine: I love that. I love it. All right. If you had any job besides being a drag performer, what would it be? 

Tara: So I would like to own a bed and breakfast, and I think a bed and breakfast but like a drag themed bed and breakfast. And my husband rolls his eyes when I say that, but I think it would be totally fun to do something like that.

Jasmine: I feel like that's a niche that people would be like, “I'm going to stay here specifically because of this.” I love it. I say you do it. 

All right. So you cook in a lot of your videos. What is your favorite dish? 

Tara: So my shtick with my drag persona is that I'm the Tater Tot Casserole Festival Queen. It's not a real thing, but that's what I made up. So, and I really love tater tots. And it's not, people say it's a hot dish. No, no. So those of you from Minnesota or the upper Midwest, you can keep saying hot dish, but I'm gonna say casserole. So pretty much anything with tater tots, that's like my comfort food. So I'll, I'll run with tater tots. 

Jasmine: I don't think I've had a tater tot in a really long time. 

Tara: They're good! And you can fancy 'em up if you want, put a little bit rosemary on there and they're good stuff. 

Jasmine: Yeah. Now you got me like having a taste for tater tots and I have probably not had tater tots in a decade.

Tara: All right, there you go. It's comfort food.

Jasmine: Yeah. All right. So what's been the most unexpectedly positive reaction you've gotten to your work? 

Tara: So I was doing a story time brunch and there was a couple from Texas that just walked into the restaurant and they, and the whole place was full already, but there was room at the bar.

And they sat down at the bar and, and I wanna say at the end, the woman grabbed my hand and she said, “We're from Texas. We were not expecting this. And we love just who you are.” Like she said that her daughter had such a hard time growing up that she wished that her daughter had somebody like me and an event like that to do and to bring people joy. And she said, “God bless you and what you're doing.” 

And I was so stunned. I wasn't sure that that was what I was expecting her to say. I still am getting choked up and like I can't talk about it, but it was, it was really moving and something I was not expecting and something that I'll probably remember forever.

Jasmine: Yeah, I'm pretty sure your first reaction was like, “we're from Texas” and you were kind of like, “Oh no. Oh no.” You're bracing yourself. Yeah. 

Tara: Well, and that was my own stereotype. So I was like, okay. I'm like, let's, let's see what they're gonna say here. And, and, and they absolutely were just amazed and really grateful. 

Jasmine: I love that. So last question, I think this is an easy one.What are you most excited about for 2023? 

Tara: You  know, my mom passed away when I was in college, and she really taught me to like, look at the beautiful things that happen every day. Right? So I carry that with me every day. So it's like, taking the moments to make sure that I am glad I woke up. Right. Whether you can see the sun rising, my cats that I love, I get a text from my kid who's in college, you know, my awesome husband. So I feel like those little moments every day for me are just making sure that I, I take time to appreciate those moments. Cause you don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring. So that's what I'm really looking forward to. 

I'm excited about what, cause I've gone from like zero public performances to 12 to 14 a month in a year. So I'm excited to see what happens next. So in addition to all those little moments, I'm kind of excited to see where the drag journey goes.

Jasmine: Yes, yes. I'm looking forward to you having amazing daily moments that are memorable. I'm like one of those people that's like, I like small victories, but I also look forward to the big victories as well, so I'm with you on that. Like I celebrate the little things. I love that. I love that.

All right, well this is the end of our rapid fire questions, and so last question, not rapid fire, but equally as important. Where can people go to find out more about you and your work? 

Tara: Yes, that's great. So I'm on Instagram @TaraHoot. Hoot like I'm funny. And you can find me, that's tarahoot.com is my website and Instagram are where I post the most. So those are where you can find me.

Jasmine: Well, this was so great. Thank you so much for joining us on the Suburban Women Problem. 

Tara: I appreciate you having me. This was a wonderful time, so I appreciate it. And here's to many more conversations.

BREAK

Amanda: Welcome back everyone. Jasmine, I loved your interview with Tara Hoot. I'll bet it was a hoot . 

Rachel: I just admire someone who can put that much work into makeup because I try, as I might, I can't quite get there. 

Amanda: I also love the tater tot casserole. My husband's obsessed with tater tots and I think he needs this recipe now because like tater tots are his favorite thing and I never make them.

Jasmine: Yeah. And I had, I like haven't had tater tots in like 10 years. But then I went to the, shortly after that interview, I went to the cafeteria in my building and there was a choice of sweet potato fries, regular fries and tater tots. And I almost got them cause I was like, “oh, I was just talking about tater tots!” But I opted for the sweet potato fries because I'm a like sucker for sweet potato fries.

Amanda: Also good. 

Rachel: I feel like Casey could be, I don't know, the Tater tot casserole princess? Maybe not Queen, that role is already taken.

Jasmine: Exactly, haha. All right, so I think it's a good time for us to end the show on a nice note, on a happy note, on a joyous note. So let's go ahead and do our Toast to Joys for this week. And Rachel, let's start with you. 

Rachel: Toast to Joy this week is my brother Pat. I love both my brothers, but it's my brother Pat today. He lives in LA and he keeps texting me updates about the price of eggs in LA and he is like, “Middle America is getting conned. I paid like $4.29 for organic eggs.” 

Jasmine: They're not as expensive where I am either! And I'm like, why has everyone been saying eggs are $8? I don't doubt that there are $8 eggs somewhere, but similar to what we were talking about earlier, I think it's kind of one of those things where someone said, “oh, eggs cost $8 and now everyone just believes eggs cost $8.” Even though at their store, none of their eggs are $8.

Amanda: But someone's eggs are $8. Somewhere. 

Rachel: This is what happens! And you have to be outraged and you have to actively fight it, otherwise, the $8 eggs are coming to your state. To your town. So you have to stop it before it happens.

Amanda: Yeah. That's not how markets work.

Jasmine: Amanda, I do find it very interesting, and you're the economist so I'll lean on you for this. The same people who are talking about that are also like, “Hey, I got an idea. Let's get rid of income tax and just raise the price of goods.” 30%! I'm like, do you realize how expensive $8 eggs are if you tax them 30%? Like, what are we talking about right now? So, I'm sorry, I just, I had to point that out cause it's something that's been making my head explode. 

Amanda: Yeah. If you're complaining about the price of eggs, you should not also be asking for higher sales taxes. Yes. 

Rachel: Anyway, so that's my Toast to Joy, eggs and economics. And on that note, we'll ask Amanda, what is your Toast to Joy? 

Amanda: All right, so my Toast to Joy, this actually worked out today, so my Toast to Joy is about inclusiveness. And it is really to my friend Megan Higgins who is a mom to Isabella. And Isabella has a neuromuscular disorder that makes it difficult for her to play with other kids on the existing playgrounds that we have here in Hudson.

And so she came to me and we were talking, and she kind of mentioned this to me, which I hadn't thought about, that for certain kids, the parks just aren't designed in a way that Isabella, who's friends with my daughter Amelia, could actually play with my daughter. And so she wants to get a park in Hudson that would be a truly inclusive park that her daughter could play with every other kid and would be inclusive to people and kids with a variety of abilities.

And so we have been working on this together with a group of moms. And we were working with the city council and the Parks department, and so far everyone has been so ecstatic about the project. And we have people, you know, city council, parks board and leadership in Hudson, and different programs who are starting to get interested in this project. And there are people from a lot of different backgrounds and it's really very nice to see so many people in our community, you know, different parties, different beliefs, different backgrounds, come together for this project to make sure we can have a playground that is inclusive. And I'm really, really excited to just see everyone support this.

And Megan has been so impressive in getting this together. She is also a book author, so she wrote a book about her daughter's disability called Super Special Magic Shoes. So she has really been a champion for her daughter from the very start. And it is fun to see and work with moms who are really champions for their kids in a way that's gonna benefit our entire community.

Jasmine: I feel like y'all's Toast to Joy are like so amazing and big and like feel good–

Rachel: Really? Eggs?? 

Jasmine: Haha. Yeah! Like, eggs actually aren't $8, I mean, that's big! That's feel good! Mine on the other hand is… you know me, I'm all about the small victories, and celebrating the small wins, and, you know appreciating the, the finer details of life.

So my favorite flower is orchids. And the other day I went to the grocery store– the grocery store, y'all— and they were buy one, get one free. And so I was able to get orchids and they're so pretty and I love them and so I'm gonna pretty up my legislative office. And I will say this, most people say they cannot keep orchids alive.

Rachel: Rachel Vindman. 

Amanda: I've killed a few. I'm sorry.

Jasmine: But here's a crazy thing. I kill every plant except for orchids! That's the only plant I have been able to successfully keep alive. So I feel like our lifestyles are similar. We're a little difficult…. 

Amanda: Haha. 

Jasmine: But you know, we don't take much and too much is too much and it will kill us. And I feel like that's why we get each other. And so I have my orchid right here, that's why I keep pointing this way, I have my orchid here. I'm really excited about it. And let's see how long it lasts. Now this one will be in my office and so it'll, you know, I won't see it as much. So hopefully it still feels nurtured.

But my Toast to Joy is to buy one get one free favorite flowers right at the time where I needed some flowers in my life. 

Amanda: I love that. Could I just say, I feel like a lot of people discount interior designers and like people who are obsessed with, you know, having a nice house or designing their space, but it really makes it welcoming for people that come in there and see these flowers. They brighten your day, little touches like that.

Rachel: Color!

Amanda: Yes! Yes. A little color. I know I had a friend who painted a painting for me in my office and it just, like, livens it up and it makes it something kind of different and special that students can look at. 

Jasmine: I love it. Yeah. My office is not very decorated, but I'm gonna work on that this year. I decided that now that I've been reelected for a third time, I can actually decorate my office. Yeah. Because, you know, it's, it's a two year office. Yeah. But I'm like, all right. Third time I can actually decorate now. Settle 

Rachel: Settle in Jasmine. Take off your coat and stay a while.

Jasmine: Yes. Yep.

All right. Well, thanks so much to everyone for joining us today. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating or a review. We'll see you next week on another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.