Chew Gum and Save Democracy (with Jill Jonassen)

Happy New Year, everyone! 2024 is a big year but we are ready to go, inspired by the victories and amazing conversations we had in 2023. In this special New Year’s episode, the hosts are joined by Red Wine & Blue story producer Jill Jonassen to discuss the best guests and conversations we had last year, how we’re feeling about this year, and what gives us hope. Suburban women know how to multitask, and this year we’re gonna need to walk, chew gum, AND save democracy!

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

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Transcript

The Suburban Women Problem - Season 4, Episode 17 Transcript

Jasmine Clark: Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Jasmine Clark. 

Rachel Vindman: I'm Rachel Vindman.

Amanda Weinstein: I'm Amanda Weinstein.

Jasmine: And you're listening to The Suburban Women Problem. Happy New Year, everyone! I cannot believe it's already 2024. This is going to be a wild year in politics, and I'm so ready to have some great conversations and fight together for our democracy. We thought we'd start the year with a special episode where we can just reflect about the past year and look ahead at the year to come. 

We're joined by Jill Jonassen, a story producer with Red Wine and Blue. Hi, Jill. Thanks for being here. 

Jill: Hi, thanks for having me. 

Jasmine: Absolutely. So let's start with a look back. What were some of our favorite stories and inspiring guests from 2023? Let's start with you, Jill. 

Jill: So as a story producer for Red Wine and Blue, I interview a ton of women from across the country, and it's always incredibly inspiring. And there's always a throughline with the stories too. And one of my favorites is when a woman is like, “I never thought I would do this. I never thought I was going to get into politics. I never thought I would get into organizing, but I saw this thing happen in my community and I couldn't stay quiet. I couldn't sit on the bench any longer. I had to get in.” 

So someone I interviewed recently, her name is Tiffany Fee. She's from Tennessee and she started the Rutherford County Library Alliance. So this sounds kind of crazy because this happened in 2023, but in her city, they had something called a decency ordinance. So they were literally banning public homosexuality in the city.

Jasmine: What??

Jill: I know, it sounds wild. And then that led to a lot of book bans in the library, um, even adult material. And that's when she was like, “This isn't right. I've got to gather people in my community to stand up and say, no, we are having none of this.” So as she was telling me, she's introverted, you know, this is out of character for her, but she just couldn't stay quiet. And so that's, those are some of my favorite stories of those women that are like, “Nobody's coming to save us. I guess I'll stand up and be that one to do it.”

Jasmine: You know, it sounds like something that you would see in like a movie or a book or that you would hear about in a country that we consider quote, like oppressed, or not free. One that needs to be freed. And here we are having places right here in our own country that are trying to basically determine what's decent, and ban people's lifestyles. So that's really awesome that she was able to do that. 

I would say one of my favorite guests this year was, uh, getting an opportunity to interview Jodi Picoult. I love her books. I've always loved her books. I've always loved how she really does, um, make you think. Small Great Things is one of my favorite books that I've read. And it's so timely, even now, today. And so I would say if I had to choose, I would say that's my favorite just because, you know, it's getting an opportunity to talk to someone who I've always kind of admired.

I don't know, uh, Rachel or Amanda, what about y'all?

Amanda: I think it's a tie for two of my favorites. One, I loved hearing from Keir Bradford-Grey and hearing what an attorney general actually can do to support people because I am so used to attorney generals in the red state that I live in right now, um, just doing things to undermine what the voters want. So I was like, “Oh man. This job sounds way better than what it is in my state.” 

But I also loved Ellen Cassedy and hearing about her movement in 9 to 5 and how much we can just learn from her in terms of how do we engage with women and meet them where they’re at so that we can kind of unite towards one common goal. It was a very, that was a very cool interview.

Rachel: I kind of have two moments as well. So the first is Felice Stadler, who is with the Audubon Society. We interviewed her in April during, you know, Earth, Earth Day, but talked about that during April. And I was just so impressed with her, like, her suggestion to kind of normalize, you know, talking about it just in small ways. And, you know, kind of leading the charge and saying, “okay, we're going to, you know, have solar panels on our schools” and the conversations that can, you know, go from there. So it doesn't mean you have to like save the world all at once, but, you know, now that we're used to all recycling and, and a lot of us, you know, actually not us, but a lot of people drive electric vehicles, but then going beyond that and the small things we can do. And I just thought it was a great conversation. 

And then talking to Elissa Slotkin, um, from Michigan. It was such a great conversation, I thought, because it really drew that throughline with the plan that Michigan had. And also we talked to Jocelyn Benson from Michigan as well, but just talking about, like, they had a plan and they went forward. And we know that this year we have an election that will largely be decided in four states. Um, we're going to break that down, don't, don't panic about that yet. But one of those is Michigan. And like, when I know that one of those is in Michigan, I feel good because I know they have a strong ground game. They've got a lot going on. The news is good from there. So it makes me feel good.

But she talked about so much that just brings me hope, Elissa did. You know, I think we're, as she said, “we're going through this time when it's maybe a lost decade, but we're, we're in the homestretch.” Okay, guys, it's this, it's this year. And if we can, we can do some good things this year, I think we're going to be in a much better place.

But yeah, those are my highlights. And I hope to bring that energy from them of like doing two things at once. You know, I want to do both those things. I want to still work on what's important, that we shore up democracy, but that we also have to have something good to leave our children. We have to walk and chew gum at the same time this year and not lose ground on the places where we've made progress and keep making progress in other areas as well.

Jasmine: So like, speaking of making progress, I think one of my favorite things about 2023 so far has been all of the wins when it comes to reproductive rights getting on the ballot in all of the states all across the country. So for me, I'm like, the fact that it doesn't matter whether you're a quote blue state or a quote red state, uh, everyone is recognizing how dangerous and how extreme we as a country have gotten and how we really need to get back on track and recognize that bodily autonomy and, you know, not giving the government the right to basically decide whether you live or die just in the name of control over your health care decisions… the fact that everyone has kind of opened their eyes in this post Dobbs era, I am so excited about that. And honestly, I hope to see that continue in 2024. 

I think outside of what we did here on the podcast, that is like my big win for 2023, the wins for reproductive rights. And hopefully we continue to see those wins such as in Florida, which is trying to get reproductive rights on the ballot now.

Amanda: Oh man, I would agree. 2023 made me very hopeful for what's possible. Seeing Issue One in Ohio pass and seeing people on both sides of the aisle vote for this made me really hopeful. And I think, you know, as you mentioned, Rachel, talking to the women from Michigan, it made me hopeful to see what's possible and what other states were doing, like automatic voter registration. I was like, “Whoa, there are many states in many places doing really awesome things that made me really hopeful.” 

Jill. I'm wondering, what was your reaction when you saw the results in Ohio? And were there any other bright spots you saw in 2023 that are making you look forward to 2024? 

Jill: Yeah, definitely. So I have a teenage daughter and a teenage niece. And when those results came in, all I kept thinking was that my daughter and my niece are protected now. So it was just a relief, a feeling that we could just relax a little bit. 

And then also at my local school board level, we were very successful as well. So two years ago, we had an extremist candidate who won, who has wreaked havoc on our community. She's in the news constantly. Um, it's just wild, the things that she has done to our community, but one of the things that she has done to our community is she's brought us together because even my conservative family members are like “That lady should not be on the school board.” And I'm like, “No, she should not.”

Amanda: “We can agree. Pass the mashed potatoes.” 

Jill: Yes, I was like, “we can agree on that.” And so she wasn't up for reelection this year, but we had two open seats and the common sense candidates won those seats. So now our board of five is three against two common sense candidates. So for me, having a high schooler and a middle schooler, I feel like I can breathe a little easier too, knowing that I have people on our school board that actually care about kids and that really want to see our schools thrive. So it was a good election year for us in 2023. And it gives me hope that when people start paying attention and start organizing and start working together, like you can actually make change.

Rachel: And you see where people's hearts are at. I think was like the biggest gift from 2023, because there's a lot of disheartening news. I mean, there's a lot of just continued horribleness coming out of Donald Trump and I wanted to ignore it. I did ignore it for a long time until I just couldn't anymore, but it's still very disheartening and that he even still has any kind of following… it's really upsetting. But then, you know, you have to think about whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is praiseworthy, think of these things. And these things are when we went up against people, we won. Like the extremists, they lost so many of the times when people organized against them. Look at Central Bucks County, Pennsylvania. So, so, so much money guys. And they lost it. Money has never been spent like that, but they still lost. 

Amanda: Do you hear the little Simpson laugh in your head where he's like, “ha ha”?

Rachel: Haha. So, you know, take that energy, take that. It buoyed us. It helped our spirits. Like Jill said, it gave us some breathing room. Take that with you as we enter this year that we know is going to be challenging. But we also know we can do it. And we can, you know, largely replicate so much of what we did, which is grassroots. I mean, it is organizing on the ground. 

Amanda: Jill, I'm wondering for 2024, what are you looking forward to or what would you like to see us tackle in the political arena? What can women do next? 

Jill: One of the biggest things I think is talk to each other. I mean, we talk about all the time, having those conversations, but it is actually true. And um, it's very awkward for me to be honest. I like to keep things neutral. I don't like to ruffle any feathers, but I'm trying harder to have those conversations. Try to have a conversation with a neighbor or family member, just like, “Hey, did you know, did you notice this? Have you thought about this?” So just try to ease into it. 

And also it's meeting people where they are. So I will have to tell you, in 2024, I'm at a very different place than I was in 2020 or at the beginning of 2016. Very different place. So I think it's just giving some grace and understanding that you might have been doing a lot of work over the years and have come to certain conclusions and your eyes have been opened, but not everybody's there yet. So trying to remember, like, where were you when you first started and try to remember that other people are there. So I do take that approach. 

For school, public schools are really important to me and so in my circles, a lot of us are parents that have kids in schools, so I try to start with that too because that is like a common ground, you know, we want our kids to be in thriving schools. So I kind of start with that. Like, “Hey, have you ever been to a school board meeting? Would you ever wanna go with me? It's really interesting. They didn't used to be so interesting, but now they are!” But um, just kind of that, just kind of opening up those doors. 

Jasmine: I love that. I think for 2024, for me, it's a campaign year for me, y'all. So, I will say I am both looking forward to and not looking forward to what I think will be a very interesting legislative session. Because legislative session is always very interesting in campaign years, some of the things that we're asked to vote on are downright ridiculous, but it's for someone's campaign, like that's the only reason we're voting on it.

But additionally, outside of the legislative session, you know, just the whole, like being on the campaign trail, I actually love parts of it. I like the part where I get to just talk to people and ask them what they care about, ask them what's important to them, ask them what they want to see in their community. And so to a lot of the things that you were just talking about, Jill, you know, people rarely are people actually asked, like, “What do you want from your elected officials?” I think, you know, we have to be mindful that as a representative voice, you can't really represent someone if you don't actually know what they want. And so for 2024, I'm going to be doing a lot of conversations. So, you know, back to that theme also. 

Not really necessarily looking forward to the 2024 election, but it is coming. And so, uh, you know, it's on my mind as to everything that we need to do to save our democracy and keep our country going in the right direction. So all of those things are on my mind for 2024. Basically living rent free in my mind for 2024. But I think we here on the Suburban Women Problem have the right formula. And I really love that we're able to have the conversations that we do have with the people we're able to have them with. And I love to see that replicated in smaller settings in different communities across the country. And I hope that we keep doing that. 

Rachel: Yeah, I, I really like what Jill said about, um, meet people where they are, give a little grace. Not everyone is where you are and we all have to start somewhere. And I think that's just really true because not everyone understands yet, but they will. And so you have to, most of all, you have to make it relatable to them. And you can't come in and be like, “Wow. In 2024, democracy is on the ballot.” I mean, I don't even know what that means, that democracy is on the ballot, but I know what it means to have a functional government, which you can't have if you have chaos and extremism. And the people that are the local school board, I know what they want them to do, and I know they can't do those things if they're too fringe and too worried about, you know, pleasing people that aren't the main people in our community. So I think that is where you kind of bring it relatable.

But you know, speaking of extremism, Jill, we loved your first, uh, I don't know if it's a series or how would you, uh, what do you call it, a season? I don't know what the proper term is, sorry, but you're going to have another Cost of Extremism. We enjoyed the first one. But please, tell me what the proper term is. Is it a season? 

Jill: Yeah, we've been calling it a limited series. 

Rachel: Limited series? Oh, wow. Limited series. That sounds very exclusive, Jill. 

Jill: I know, doesn't it? Well, for season one, which was back in August, and you can go to the Suburban Women Problem feed and you can listen to those episodes, we did four episodes and then we did a bonus episode where I talked to Jo Carducci, also known as Jojo From Jerz, if anybody knows her from social media. And we dug into, um, active shooter drills in schools, privatization of schools, school boards, and then anti-trans legislation. So we kind of had that theme of how extremism is costing our children. 

So this season coming up, which will come up in February, I think we're going to do six episodes. We’re almost done with the first three. And so they're a little different. The first one is about crisis pregnancy centers. I will tell you right now, I learned a lot doing this and I really didn't know a lot about them to begin with. I think a lot of people might hear that and be like, “well, isn't that a good thing? Like they're trying to help pregnant women.” But as you dig deeper, um, there's definitely some problematic things.

And so one of the people that we interviewed is Cherisse Scott. She's the CEO and founder of Sister Reach, which is an organization in Tennessee working for reproductive justice. And so she is an interview I will always remember because the way she explained reproductive justice is like we were talking about before, meeting people where they are. So if a woman is pregnant and she doesn't know what to do, they meet her where she is and they listen to her and figure out what is the right thing, what's the next step and how to do that. 

But crisis pregnancy centers… they're not meeting people where they are. Somebody walks through that door and then they are actually trying to push their own agenda on that person. So a person might come to a crisis pregnancy center thinking they can help them with getting an abortion. That's not their goal. That's not what they want to do. They want to convince you to do what they want you to do instead of listening to you and helping you do what you want to do. And so there's a huge cost to that. So I think that'll be really interesting.

Our second episode is about book bans. We're all, you know, I think aware of what's going on with that. One of my favorite guests on that is Ellen Oh, she's the co-founder of We Need Diverse Books and she's an author. And she is incredible. Just look up We Need Diverse Books.

And then our third episode we've been working on is about PragerU, which are these ridiculous videos, um, that states like Florida have approved that teachers can show these in their classrooms. One of my favorite guests we talked to is a professor from Florida A&M University, Dr. Ellis, and he really just opened my eyes and just, uh, kind of shed some light on the real harm that these videos can do for generations. 

So it is not for the faint of heart. This is not light material, but it's necessary. These are things that we need to talk about. It's kind of documentary style, so it's a mix of narration from me and storytelling mixed in with the interviews. And then I have to give a shout out to the producer and editor, Abigael Martin on our team. This is her creation. She and I are generations apart, which I think makes it really unique. She's in her twenties. I'm in my forties. And it's just been so much fun to work with somebody from a completely different generation for the same goal.

Jasmine: I absolutely love that. I cannot wait to listen to this. Just this preview of the first three episodes has me already looking forward to this because these are all really important topics and oftentimes topics that people don't know that much about. So I love that. 

All right. Well, thank you so much, Jill, for joining us today. 

Jill: Thank you. I appreciate it. 

Jasmine: We're so excited to be back for a new year of the Suburban Women Problem. We have so many exciting guests and important conversations coming up. So if you haven't already. Please make sure you subscribe in your podcast app so you don't miss a thing.