Sometimes You Just Need To Talk To Cecile Richards (with Cecile Richards and Kellie Love Titus)

On today’s episode, Amanda Weinstein, Jasmine Clark and Rachel Vindman talk about empowering women and giving them choices... both in their reproductive health and with good economic policies. They discuss their own evolution on the issue of abortion and the importance of the Child Tax Credit, bringing on Kellie Love Titus (a suburban mom and owner of a dance studio) to discuss balancing work with childcare.

Then Amanda gets the chance to sit down with the one and only Cecile Richards— former long-time head of Planned Parenthood, the daughter of former TX Governor Ann Richards, and the current co-chair of American Bridge 21st Century. Their interview happened to fall on Cecile’s mom’s birthday AND on the very day that a horrific new abortion bill was passed in Texas. Cecile and Amanda discuss abortion, the American Rescue Plan, and the best advice Cecile ever got from her mom.

Finally, Amanda, Jasmine and Rachel raise a glass to camping, the Laconia Indian Historical Association’s annual Pow Wow, connecting with friends, and returning to the classroom in this week’s “Toast to Joy.”

If you’re outraged over the latest attack on women’s rights in Texas, let’s make sure our elected officials know that suburban women will not accept this attack on our rights. Take our No Bans No Bounties pledge here and commit to never voting for a candidate who supports criminalizing abortion.

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSA

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA

YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

Transcript

Amanda Weinstein: Hi, everyone. Thanks for listening. I'm Amanda Weinstein.

Rachel Vindman: I’m Rachel Vindman.

Jasmine Clark: I'm Jasmine Clark. 

Amanda: And you're listening to The Suburban Women Problem. Welcome back everyone! This week, I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with Cecile Richards, who you might know as the longtime head of Planned Parenthood, but she's also a national leader for social and economic justice for women.

Cecile and I talked about the American Rescue Plan, and I got to nerd out about economic policies. But, given the recent news out of Texas and Cecile being who she is, we couldn't not talk about abortion too. Later on this episode, we're also going to chat with Kellie Love Titus, a suburban mom in Ohio who owns her own business. She's had to grapple with the same issues as many of us working moms, so I'm looking forward to getting her perspective as a fellow Ohio mom. 

So, speaking of kids, in our last episode we talked about how our kids had just gone back to school and we were all pretty anxious about the COVID policies in our school districts. So how are we feeling now? Two weeks later, Rachel, how has your experience been with Ellie going back to school? 

Rachel: It's been okay. I mean, I still have a lot of anxiety, you know, we're just doing the best we can to mitigate the exposure and I respect everyone's decision about what to do. I will say that I've gotten a lot of comments on Twitter when I've talked about school that say, “I can't believe you're sending your child to school.”

Thank you for your opinion. That's not really helpful. And not just to me, because I have a pretty privileged situation, but this is what my daughter needs guys. And I think we need to remember that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have to work with. And no one is thinking I'm going to send my child to school and expose them to COVID because that's easy. So I just, if I could remind everyone to give a little grace in that department, we're all weighing… you guys know… we're all taking in all the information.

Amanda: We’re all facing benefits and costs, and we're weighing those benefits and costs and the risks of the costs and the risks of the benefits. 

Rachel: Yes!

Amanda: What might happen if our kid doesn't go to school, what might happen if our kid does go to school? And I think we need to give everyone a little grace, because the truth is everyone's benefits and costs are different. We have different health concerns. Our kids have different education needs. So the fact that anyone is going to, I feel like, judge, especially in this situation for sending your kid to school or not is like, you have to understand that there’s different benefits and costs that person is facing. And they might not tell you what all their benefits and costs are because you don't owe them that information. 

Jasmine: Absolutely. Actually, we have been in school for a month now and I have not gotten a close contact letter yet. I do know several people who have, but for us, things are going pretty well, all things considered, but I still have my worries. 

Again, I don't feel like I'm immune, just because I know the science. I don't feel like, you know, this can't visit my doorstep as well. So I'm still saying very cautious. I'm still on high alert. I'm still a little anxious about things, but so far so good for us.

Amanda: I feel like every day, you wake up and you just cross your fingers.

Jasmine: Exactly. 

Amanda: Hopefully nothing happens. Hopefully we're okay. I'm going to do the best I can. And then past that. I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope it all goes okay. 

Jasmine: Exactly.

Rachel: That's a great theme to take into everything that we're talking about today, actually. Just have some grace, have some, you know, and do the best you can. I think you have to recognize and expect that other people are doing the best they can too.

Amanda: Absolutely. So let's talk about the “best” Texas is doing right now. So, Texas—I'm sure you have heard the news, if not, that Texas has created a new law, which the Supreme Court decided not to act on, that essentially bans all abortions past six weeks. How are we feeling about this? Jasmine, what do you think?

Jasmine: We had a similar law here in Georgia recently, House Bill 481, it was blocked by the courts because it is unconstitutional. The Texas law as well is unconstitutional. So the workaround to the unconstitutionality of that bill was that they then decided that the enforcer of this ban would be vigilantes –– people telling on or ratting on people, they suspect had an abortion or aided and abetted someone having an abortion.

Amanda: I think that's a really good point that people don't realize why the Supreme Court did not act was because they, I mean, this was pretty clever actually. Like I will give them this. This was very clever way to get around something that is clearly unconstitutional by saying the government isn't going to enforce it. It's all going to be these vigilantes enforcing it, which is awful.

And you're right. They're creating this new, like, we can just create all of these vigilantes now. So right now it's abortion, but maybe next time it's about, you know, who knows?

Rachel: And I think it was… the law was carefully worded and carefully crafted so that that would be the case, for the Supreme Court to have difficulty getting involved. And I just think this is another example of the right really drilling down and trying to do all these things they can in order to rig the system in their favor because they know that it's not in their favor in the numbers. Most people, whether or not they're pro-choice or pro-life, don't support the repeal of Roe. Time and time again, poll after poll, including from right after Roe to today, people don't support repealing it.

And that's really important. I think Texas is kind of making a…

Amanda: It’s a misstep.

Rachel: Yes, Texas is a misstep and miscalculation. I do think it has the capacity to backfire in many different ways, but I believe in the end, the short term is pretty grim and the idea of this is very unappealing, but in the end, I think this is another example of the Republicans having a little bit more rope in which to hang themselves.

Amanda: I think you're right. And I think because there are people who are pro-life, who don't agree with repealing Roe V. Wade. 

Rachel: Absolutely. A lot of people.

Amanda: A lot of people, and the truth is nobody wants a woman to have to go through abortion. Right. Nobody, there's no one out there that says I want more women to have abortions because it's super fun, right?

But if you ask people, right, we want to empower women, right? The way to go about this is not to control women and to take their power away, to address reducing abortions. If we want to reduce abortions, we should empower women by giving them access to healthcare that includes contraceptives, by giving them paid child pay childcare, paid leave, by giving them government-guaranteed child support, right?

When we empower women, we can reduce abortions. The Affordable Care Act did more to reduce abortions by giving women access to contraceptives than this Texas law ever will, because the truth is with all this stuff Texas has done, they're right on the border of Mexico. So if someone really wants an abortion, right, they'll go across the border.

Yes, Texas is huge. They might have to drive farther. What they did is they outlawed safe and legal abortion. That's what they outlawed. They didn't outlaw abortion. They'll still happen. They just outlawed safe and legal abortions. And really what I think most people want is we want to go about this by empowering women by giving women access to contraceptives because the research shows that's had the biggest impact on reducing abortions.

And this is a non-issue. This is an issue they made up because we are now at a level of historic low abortion rates, lower than before Roe V. Wade. And we did it by empowering women with giving them access to affordable healthcare. They're going about this the complete wrong way. 

Jasmine: Absolutely. I think it's very hypocritical. People who have access to resources are still going to be able to get abortions. They will just go to a state where abortions are allowed. So what this is going to do is disproportionately affect those without the resources to travel to Mexico, or to travel to a bordering state where abortion is still legal.

Remember, abortion care is reproductive healthcare and reproductive healthcare is healthcare. And not all abortions are due to someone who just doesn't want to have a baby.

Rachel: In fact, very few are.

Jasmine: Exactly.

Rachel: The numbers… it just doesn't bear that out, but that's not the line that's told to people. I know because I was part of this world and I know Amanda was too.

Amanda: You're told it's irrational women who are on a whim. “I want a baby. Oop, now I don't.”

Rachel: Focus on the Family talked about this, and talked about this, and talked about this, and they lied to people. I talk about it so much on this podcast and the change that I've had in the past couple of years, but 2020, not because of anything in my personal life or what was happening to us, but I really realized my privilege. And, um, I have tears in my eyes. I'm trying not to cry. I mean, when I say my privilege, I don't mean that— I mean, yes, I'm comfortable and we're comfortable in life, but I mean all the things that I grew up with that I didn't realize that everyone else didn't have and how much that has impacted me, whether it's abortion or whatever it is. 

Guys, we have to have that place of grace and have that place to understand. There's more to the story than what you want to believe. It is not black and white.

Jasmine: That's why I love this suburban women problem. That's why I love this platform. Seriously. This is what we're doing, right?

Amanda: Yeah. And thinking about the bigger implications for things, how things affect us that we think don't affect us. You know, whether it's giving women access to, you know, healthcare that they need. These are really critical for our economy. Right?

So when we think… So, one of my favorite quotes from Vice President Kamala Harris that I heard her say actually at the Women's March was, she said that everyone used to love to come up to her and say, “Hey, Kamala, let's talk about women's issues.” And she would say, “Great, let's talk about our economy.” And I was like, “Amen, yes. Get it girl.” Right? But she sees that connection here that when we talk about things, like people who aren't privileged, so when we talk about poverty, women are more likely to be in poverty. So we need to talk about how, when we talk about these policies, right, we need to talk about how do we empower women.

And we need to think more broadly about when we think about infrastructure. So I love Elizabeth Warren's quote, “childcare's infrastructure,” right? I need a road to get to my work, but I can tell you it doesn't matter how great those roads are. I'm not getting to work without childcare. There's so many policies we have that can help empower women that, oh, by the way, will reduce abortion, but also empower women in our economy.

And why do we care so much if women are in the economy? Why not just have the male breadwinner? Well, women make 70 to 80% of our consumption decisions. Rachel, how much furniture in your house did you buy and how much of it did your husband purchase? Right? And it turns out men aren't that great at knowing what women want? Shocker.

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's first off –– why should we have women in the economy? Because if they want to be there, they should be able to. And I refuse to have this debate. If you want to stay home, stay home. I think that's amazing. So whatever your situation is, there are plenty of people. I'm not going to judge you, but…

Amanda: This is a made up debate. Can we just say that?

Rachel: It is. It's so stupid.

Amanda: And the two are important for each other. When we value stay at home moms and the work that they do in the home: childcare, cooking, clean, whatever they do, then we value what we think of as women's working.

Rachel: Yes. 

Amanda: Actually, if we value what stay-at-home moms do, it actually will boost up the value of what working women do.

Rachel: I do want to say something. Um, why haven't we spent like two and a half weeks talking about all the failures in Afghanistan, but we aren't talking about the child tax credit and the difference that's making for families, because I know for my brother and sister-in-law, they have two, um, the oldest is four and the younger one’s about 18 months old, and the child tax credit has made a huge difference in their lives to get that deposited into their account. And it's allowed for, you know, more childcare until my youngest niece can go to the same school as her sister. And just more freedom, less guilt, to think I'm going to hire someone so I can actually get my work done and not be awake at three o'clock in the morning and doing it.

And you know, all this stuff. Why hasn't anyone talked about it? Is it just not sexy enough or does it not affect the right people?

Jasmine: I think it's both of those things. I think one of the things is, we spent, uh, four years having a President that constantly created or provided drama. It was so dramatic. It was so theatrical. It was so really…

Rachel: I actually really agree with this.

Jasmine: And so then when we got a President that's just doing his job, that's providing good things that help people improve quality of life. Because it's kind of like, there was all this hype and now it's come down and now they feel like they don't have the same umph. 

Amanda:  But you know what? They need to think about this more broadly. Right. When we think about those child tax credits, right? What are real people doing with those tax credits? What are the real implications? And we don't realize that other countries don't expect women to be martyrs. That when we cut childcare, that when we cut spending in schools, that when we make these cuts, we don't, it's not that these costs go away. They just go off the government and onto the backs of women. And we're expected to just grin and bear it. I think we're sick of grinning and bearing it. It's time for more policies like this. And this is awesome that we have started. This is a huge change, a shift. And when we think about policies… How will this affect women? How will this affect children? 

Jasmine: I have constituents that reach out to me all the time and tell me how great it is that they got a little extra money coming in. You know, I have constituents that said, that's the difference between paying for daycare and not being able to pay for daycare. That $300 is a significant chunk of money to them.

And so let's talk about, let's highlight them. Let's talk about how, if we want to reduce abortions, one of the ways to do that is to empower people with things like this Child Tax Credit, with healthcare, with education. Let's talk about that. Let's get off of this “I have to say something super controversial in order to get clicks.”

Amanda: So let's bring in another mom who's been dealing with these issues firsthand and see how these types of things –– the child tax credit –– are affecting her. She lives in Willoughby, Ohio, which is a suburb of Cleveland, and she owns her own dance studio called Fred Astaire dance studios, Kellie, welcome to the suburban women problem.

Kellie Love Titus: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. I'm a big fan. I'm glad I'm here. 

Amanda: We're so excited to have you. So Kellie, you became a business owner and a mom at the same time, right?

Kellie: Yeah, I'd always been a professional dancer my whole life and really dreamed of having a dance studio. And when it finally presented itself, it was at the same time that my husband and I were trying to have a baby, but it was taking a little longer than we expected. So when I finally signed the dotted line, like “Yeah, let's own a dance studio.” When the opportunity presented itself, I also became pregnant at the same time. So as you could just imagine it was…

Amanda: Two babies!

Kellie: Yeah! I make the joke. I had twins. That's what happened. I had to grow and learn both my babies at the same time.

Rachel: Well, I'm kind of in awe of you just having a dance studio and being a professional dancer, because I think that's amazing. So what are the challenges you faced as a mom who is also a business owner, specifically talking about childcare?

Kellie: Just childcare alone, there were a lot of complications. I did not know that as a mother, I do not want to be away from my baby.

So step one, child care. I wanted to be the person caring for my child. And it wasn't until that was on my radar that I had even like, gotten the knowledge that there were whole countries that had infrastructure in place to support mothers through that very first year of just hormonal –– I mean, we can talk about bonding, that's important –– but there's hormonal imbalance. There is you having to heal. There's the baby possibly having to heal. There were so many things that I didn't realize until becoming a mom and being forced into a position that I had to go back to work eventually because I had this business where I was like, “ugh.” If I have the choice in the very beginning, I just want to be around my baby a hundred percent of the time.

So that was the first layer of layer of childcare was getting over me not being the only one to care for my child like I wanted  to be.

Rachel: Absolutely, so relatable. 

Kellie: So about four months later though, I had to snap back into reality –– because remember the dance studio was my dream, my whole life. I wanted this baby as well.

I decided, okay, in order to go back into the workforce, my dance studio, I need to have someone take care of my child. And that was the next layer of complication. Because again, I knew it was a lot of money to take care of a child. I never researched the cost of a daycare. I didn't even know what daycare I wanted my child to go.

Amanda: This is how we get new kids, by the way! We have to hide these costs. You cannot tell this, otherwise there would be no grandkids. There would be no grandkids! You're like, “oh, by the way, childcare is sometimes more expensive than college.”

Kellie: It is so true. It was so true right? It was best I didn't know, because once I found out and I was just… it's astronomical, but I can't say enough how well supported I was through this whole time. Even though I'm saving it was a lot, my regional director, my family and friends loved and supported on me so much and still my mental health struggled. I had options and still was having a hard time. I think that's really why I wanted to make sure I got the chance to talk to you guys about this issue in particular.

Jasmine: I think that we all go into this idea of parenthood knowing that it's going to cost some money, and we know that it's going to be some sacrifices and we get it, but I don't think we ever really “get it” until we're in it.

Amanda: Yeah. I know some moms who their pay was low enough that they actually lost money. When you think about their pay and what they had to pay for daycare, that they were losing money, but they enjoy their job so much. But also if they took a step back, the labor force punishes you if you take a step back, which is awful. We need to have to be supporting women so they can start their own businesses and do the things that women want, like a dance studio. 

Kellie: I had someone close to me who was paying for daycare, but everything she was making was paying for daycare. And she's a single mother. So when I say for people, I had options and I was blessed for that. I definitely was close to someone who did not have options.

Amanda: And this is why your story is so important to hear, Kellie. So before we let you go, have you started receiving a child tax credit and has it been helpful for you?

Kellie: Yes. And once again, I know through comparison that it has been. So my oldest, my three-year-old, is now going to a school that I love again. I just absolutely love it, but it is private school. So it helped us make a decision that we thought was best for him, the child care tax credit, for sure, has just made our lives a little bit more peaceful than it would have been without it.

Amanda: That’s actually a perfect way to say it, that this is a struggle that it doesn't need to be. And the child tax credit is a great way to lessen than the struggle and lessen the burden. So, Kellie, thank you so much for joining the show. I loved hearing your story.

Kellie: My pleasure guys again, I'm a huge fan. So thank you for having me.

Jasmine: Yes, thank you.

Amanda: Okay. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll have my interview with Cecile Richards. It was so amazing to talk to her, so be sure to stick around.

BREAK

Amanda: Our guest today is a national leader for social and economic justice for women. She's the former longtime president of Planned Parenthood and the current co-chair of American Bridge 21st Century, an organization dedicated to winning races for Democrats across the country. Cecile Richards, welcome to The Suburban Women Problem.

Cecile Richards: Thank you, Amanda. It's great to be with you.

Amanda: So Cecile, your mom, Ann Richards, was one of the most recognizable women in the Democratic party. Governor of Texas, you know, famous for her one liners. Did you ever think about working in a bakery or being a teacher like I know she was, or selling insurance, or were you always destined to be in politics and make a whole lot of trouble?

Cecile: Well, first I should say, I don't know when this will air, but the day we're talking about this is actually her birthday, September 1st. So this is a day I always think about her and what she would say now. I never did think about doing those things, although, I have to tell you, Amanda, right now, I think like a lot of women I think working in a bakery sounds somewhat satisfying! But, yeah. I mean she and my dad –– my dad's still living ––he still is and was a civil rights attorney and voting rights activist. Yeah. They brought us up from an early age, just feeling like, you know, you have this one life and you got to make the most of it and try to make the kind of change you want to see in the world. So I was really lucky. I think he was born under a lucky star.

Amanda: Wow. That's awesome. This podcast is called The Suburban Women Problem because we know the Republican party has a problem connecting with suburban women. What are some of the issues that you think really highlight this Republican disconnect with women in the suburbs?

Cecile: I don't necessarily think that they have a trouble connecting. They just have, frankly, a political agenda that is against everything women need and particularly suburban women. I think of moms that need to not only survive, but in really this era COVID, but get to someplace where they feel economically secure, they feel like they can take care of their families, participate in government.

And the Republican party has really been trying to throw gravel and sand in the gears every time we begin to make progress. That's been really clear to me in these last few months, as President Biden has worked so hard under the American Rescue Plan, with the bipartisan infrastructure bill and then the budget plan, where for the first time we see the federal government –– it's the first time in a long, long time –– investing in the kinds of things that I believe women and suburban women really need: investing in affordable childcare, the child tax cut, you know, where most families are now getting a monthly check to help defray the costs of raising a kid. These are the kinds of issues that women don't see as political issues. These are fundamental issues that, that we're facing every single day.

And the Republican Party has never been an advocate in any of these areas. And of course, what we saw with the American Rescue Plan that invested in small business and invested in all the kinds of economic support that women and families needed, every single Republican in Congress voted against it. So it's not just a handful of Republicans and frankly, it's not ex-President Donald Trump. It's current day Republicans. So the problem isn't so much connecting, it's actually listening to women.

Amanda: Absolutely, because these are policy issues that women are advocating for and they just aren't listening to what women really need in their lives. And we can see that, especially the GOP’s heavily male dominated. So they have a representation issue and frankly, you're right. We haven't addressed things like childcare in a significant way in quite a while. The last time that I can think of is in World War II, when we needed Rosie the Riveter to come to work. Suddenly we had federally subsidized childcare when we realized how important women are to our economy and realized what they needed: affordable childcare.

Cecile: Completely correct. I mean, it's really interesting, you know, right before the COVID epidemic, or pandemic, hit, women at that point were really half the workforce in the United States of America. And it's sort of extraordinary when you think about the fact that we still are paid unequally, that we don't have access in large part to affordable childcare, healthcare, et cetera, that women somehow just muscled through. 

Right now, that's why all of these issues are so important. It's a time not simply to try to get back to where we were, but to really make big progress. It's one of the reasons I have been so impressed by President Biden and this administration for not wasting any time and just saying we have to make these investment now if we're going to Build Back Better, and if we're going to build back equitably. I think it's important that when you build back, everyone comes along and in this case, that includes women.

Amanda: Yeah. And I think a lot of people think when you talk about Building Back Better in an equitable way that they think it must be at the cost of our economy. Right? So I'm an economist, and I often think about economic policies for women, things that are good for our economy that are also equitable… things like paid, leave childcare and women returning to the workforce. Those are all great for our economy. So how do we get better policies that support women?

Cecile: Well, I think one is just women demonstrating that they care, and we saw that certainly in record turnout, as you know, in this last election in the presidential election. Women were not only –– they really dominated all the primary votes, you know, in the states –– they were the vast majority of voters in the November election. They were really determinative. And of course record numbers of women are now running for office and getting elected, and that does change the agenda. 

You know, it's kind of funny. I think that some of the issues that are wildly popular, I mean, child affordable childcare, affordable healthcare, the child tax cut, these are hugely popular with Republicans too. It really takes women being an office in equal numbers to advocate for the things that are popular. So that to me is going to be the big difference. These midterm elections coming up of course in Ohio is always, but around the country, women have to continue to vote.

I think we all worry a little bit about, there was such fatigue after the four years of the Trump administration and so many women literally driving to the polls to vote in the presidential election, because they were just horrified at the thought of four more years of that. I think there was, there was a fair amount of exhaustion.

And I mean, I'm sure we could talk about that. Just the literal exhaustion that women have and certainly, moms have to know it's time not to retreat, but to double down. And I really believe that as women, we are the most powerful political force in this country. And if we vote for candidates who support the kinds of support we need from government, we can really change the way this next century looks. I think we can, to your point about the economy, women can be an equal part of our economy. And if we're not. We're not going to grow.

Amanda: You're exactly right. When we show them political power that we have, that's when we get things like the American Rescue Plan and we get things like the child tax credit –– things that especially benefit women, will benefit men and women, but especially benefit women.

So your research has found that some suburban women aren't aware of all the details of the American Rescue Plan. So first, why do you think that is? And what do you think are the most important things for women to know about the American Rescue Plan and the upcoming infrastructure bill? 

Cecile: Well, I think, I mean, first of course, it's impossible to follow what's happening right now in the news.

And, you know, we moved immediately from the American Rescue Plan, which put basically checks in the hands of millions and millions of Americans to help them get through this period. It put money into shots in arms so that we could actually go back to work, go back to seeing our families again, get our kids back in school, but that wasn't the end of it.

And I think so it's hard to really focus on that when, of course immediately, the next thing that the Biden administration went onto is the infrastructure. Which we know is critical. So it's not surprising to me that women haven't been able to follow everything that's going on, and that's why it's so critical that things like this, like Red Wine and Blue and this podcast, help explain to women what's happening. And how it happened.

So one of the most important things that happened starting this summer was of course, this child tax cut, where almost every working family in this country qualified for what is now a monthly check that they'll be getting through the end of this year. And that is to help support the costs that families face for raising children. Childcare, you know, diapers. We could just go down, go down the list. It's one of the most important infusions of support for working families, and suburban women to your podcast audience, that's ever been made. But a lot of women don't even know why that check is coming and that this was a result of, frankly, Democratic leadership.

Again, this was part of the plan that the Biden administration pushed that Republicans have voted against, and we just continue to make that connection. And I think importantly that it wasn't just the President and the Vice President who made this happen. It was Democrats in Congress that voted for these important investments.

And so if you want to continue to have a government that actually invests in American women, the Democratic party is frankly, that's your choice. That's who is leading this leading this important work, and the Republicans, much to my dismay and frankly, almost surprise… it’s like they're voting against things that are fundamental for all Americans.

These are not partisan issues. These are basic investment in infrastructure issues.

Amanda: You're right. But they're making them partisan issues, issues that shouldn't be partisan. We should be supporting policies that support families. And this child credit has a huge impact on children in poverty. And I think that's something that women connect with. 

Cecile: Absolutely. I mean, that's one of the most important statistics coming out of all this work is that we could cut child poverty in half in the United States of America. And that is an investment worth making. It's a very exciting time, but it's a scary time.

And I think it's also time where these issues should not be, as you said, they just shouldn't be partisan. You know, it's a hard day right now, to even think about what the Republican party has been trying to do to women, but I honestly don't even understand. There is literally no realistic argument I can imagine for being against investing in childcare, which as you said, not only women like men like it too. 

Amanda: Yeah, so let's talk about that. I mean, so there's so much that is going well. When you think about the American Rescue Plan, when you think about the infrastructure bill. It's also still a scary time today. We got the announcement… So you were the president of Planned Parenthood for many years, and recently we've been seeing abortion rights under attack across the country, including a new abortion ban in Texas that just went into effect this morning that allows private citizens to sue anyone who helps a pregnant woman get an abortion in Texas.

So could you tell us more about this new law and what it means for women in your home state of Texas?

Cecile: Well, Amanda. It really is hard to even imagine that today, which as I said, it was like, you know, the anniversary of my mom's birthday, so it's always kind of a special day, and I hear from all my friends in Texas about how “oh I miss your mom.”

But today not only did women essentially lose access to legal abortion –– safe and legal abortion –– in the state of Texas... Also, of course, the Governor Greg Abbott and the Republican-led legislature also made Texas, probably as of any moment now, one of the most restrictive states in the country to vote. Like literally taking away access to change the people that are in office.

It's the closest to a totalitarian state that— in other countries, that's what we would say about them, right? That they were taking away women's rights, that they were denying people access to the ballot box. And that is literally what happened today. This new law, which we are waiting still to see if the Supreme Court will take action on, but it went into effect today. And essentially you cannot get an abortion –– a  legal abortion –– in Texas now after a heartbeat is detected. Which is, you know, usually around six weeks, it's… Listen, long before most women even realize they're pregnant. And they've added this sort of vigilante injustice to it by paying folks to basically turn in women and people who've helped women trying to access what is a legal right in this country, and that is to get access to a safe and legal abortion. 

Just by making abortion illegal in Texas, doesn't mean there will not be abortion in Texas. We know what happened last time they tried to do this. Women continued to have abortions. They were simply illegal and they were unsafe. And that is the horrifying thing, the lack of empathy for pregnant people in the state of Texas, and the fact that Governor Abbott and the entire Republican legislature, will put their putting their own politics ahead of the health and wellbeing of women in Texas is horrifying. And I hope this is a wake up call, not only to people in the state of Texas, but because I think it's so important to understand: don't think the Republican party is just coming for women in Texas. They're coming for women all over this country.

Amanda: I love that when you talk about abortion, you keep talking about taking away safe and legal abortion. And you emphasize this doesn't mean women will stop getting abortions. It just means they no longer have access to safe and legal abortions, which is I think the way that we should really talk about it, and that's really understanding the real behavior and decisions of women.

Cecile: Correct.

Amanda: And so I think it's interesting that we're also talking about the importance of childcare, right? The real decisions that women face. And if you are trying to reduce abortions you should be supporting things like affordable childcare. And this is how women are actually making decisions about their fertility, it’s these policies we're talking about. And so I love the way that you talk about this. When you talk about taking away abortion, it's safe and legal abortion that we're taking away, that's what they're taking away, right?

Cecile: No, absolutely. And look, we saw, again, last time the Texas legislature did this, women told their stories of going to Mexico and buying pills over the counter.

They talked about leaving the state. I don't, I guess people… folks knew this law had been passed. I think they assumed that there was going to be some legal mechanism to stop it as of today, though, there isn't.

Amanda: If the Texas GOP, and the GOP in general, has a suburban women problem, I think that suburban women problem just got bigger. And I think we'll see that more women are going to become more engaged. 

Okay. So Cecile, now we're going to jump into some fun rapid fire questions. Are you ready? 

Cecile: Great. I love those kinds of things. Sure. I don't know if I'm ready, but yes. 

Amanda: I mean, I don't know if anyone's ever ready. All right. Cecile, what's your favorite thing to do with your kids in New York city?

Cecile: Oh my God. Okay. Well, I live there now, which is so exciting. There's a million things to do. Probably my favorite thing to do is go to see the sea lions over at the Central Park Zoo, which if you have never done with your kids, it's my daily walk. It's so great. They're just out there jumping around all the time. So yeah, do that. 

Amanda: Oh, I'm going to have to add it to the list. 

So we know Thanksgiving is always a big deal in your house. What's your must have dish and what's one that you secretly think is overrated.

Cecile: Thanksgiving was always a big holiday and especially when my mom was alive, but now I live right around the corner from where they blow up the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade balloons. It's like everyone becomes like three years old again and you get to go see the balloons and all that. So, it's a big deal. I think that the must-have thing at Thanksgiving to me is… there's only one thing and that's pie. I guess the thing that's the most overrated is turkey. We quit having turkey years ago. Of course I haven't eaten meat since I was 12, so it was easy for me, but I think you can have a great Thanksgiving with just the sides and plenty of pie. 

Amanda: Oh, I love that. You said that. So I'm mostly a vegetarian, so my Thanksgivings are all the sides really, and it's been great.

Cecile: Exactly!

Amanda: I have plenty of to eat, it's tasty. Actually, my favorite side is a green bean casserole. Which I know. Not everyone agree with that. I love it.

Cecile: Yeah. And then you don't have to figure out what to do with the leftover turkey the next day. So, I mean, it's a, win-win.

Amanda: There are so many amazing women out there, but who's someone that's really been inspiring you lately?

Cecile: There are, and there were so many, I mean, I could go through a big list, but I will pick one. Um, because she's actually a friend, she's somebody who started a Planned Parenthood. If you can imagine being a lobbyist in Georgia, which is hard. That's like being, you know, working for Planned Parenthood in Texas. Anyway, her name is Nikema Williams and she ran for State Senate. And then when Congressman John Lewis passed, she took his place. Although of course, no one can really take Congressman Lewis’ place, but she now represents his district in Congress. And she's just fantastic.

Amanda: So today's your mom's birthday, what's the best advice you ever got from your mom? 

Cecile: Well I don't think –– you probably never met my mom –– but she had a lot of advice. Let’s just put it that way. And so I would say probably the most important thing she believed, and certainly the older she got, the more she believed it, which is, “this is the only life you have.” So whatever chance comes your way, just grab hold of it and go, you know, there was no do-overs. She just felt women so often didn't do things because they were afraid they would fail. And so I think she just really wanted to encourage all women to just go for it. 

Amanda: I was just going to say, I bet that is especially good advice for women.

Cecile: Always.

Amanda: So we loved your book, Make Trouble, and 100% agree with the New York Times that it is a “blueprint for budding activists.” So what's the title of your next book going to be? 

Cecile: Well. Let's see, I guess a couple possibilities... One is ‘Start Before You're Ready,’ which is kind of my mantra, which is if you wait until, you know, until you're ready to do it, it's going to be too late.

Although the other thing that I think about sometimes is ‘Don't Wait for Instructions.’ So many women come call me and they say, “what are we going to do?” And especially today, right? Just like wringing their hands, like so angry and frustrated. And so I think the most important thing is don't wait for someone else to solve the problem. Right? Just jump in. And whether that means registering people to vote, whether that means running for office yourself, starting your own club, volunteering for an organization that you support, sending money to an abortion fund… Whatever it is, don't wait for someone else to tell you what to do. And I think that that is why women have become such an important political force, and why groups like Red Wine and Blue are so important is that women just looked around and went, well, I guess if no one else is going to figure this out, It's time. I do so. Yeah. Don't wait for instructions. Just get going. 

Amanda: I love that. Yeah. There's no knight in shining armor coming to do, you know, whatever need to be done.

Cecile: Nope, no one is coming to save us!

Amanda: That's all us. We are the Knight in shining armor.

Cecile: Exactly, right. Exactly, right.

Amanda: All right. That is the end of our rapid fire questions. This was such an honor. Thank you again for being here on the Suburban Women Problem.

Cecile: Absolutely, Amanda, and thanks for speaking out, to and for and with suburban women.

Amanda: Thank you.

BREAK

Rachel: Welcome back everyone. Amanda, that was a great interview with Cecile and, you know, she just touched on so many of the things that are really important to women right now, and so relevant and we need to be having this conversation more. So thank you for that. 

Jasmine: Yeah, absolutely. It could not have been more timely.

Rachel: Yes, definitely.

Amanda: All right. So before we leave, we want to end on a Toast to Joy. So, Jasmine, what is your Toast to Joy this week?

Jasmine: So my Toast to Joy... I'm so excited about this. I went on a little vacation for Labor Day Weekend to a very, very small area of New Hampshire. I mean, New Hampshire is small itself, but a small area—Sanbornton, New Hampshire—for the Laconia Indian Historical Association’s annual powwow. So my mom's husband is Native American and they have this powwow every year. It's inter-tribal so it’s a mixture of different tribes from both the U.S. and from Canada, and they converge onto this area and it's so full of culture and tradition and love.

And everyone was so welcoming and I learned a lot. Like, it was a lot of history in there. I mean, it was just so amazing. It was a little bit of camping involved. So this was held at like a campground and I have never been camping. So we stayed in an RV, but even still, like, I've actually never stayed in one.

Amanda: Ah, we have to stop. You have never been camping?

Jasmine: No, I've never been camping and I've never been in an RV either.

Amanda: I think we should do a pod camping trip. And do like a recording from the camp site, hear the crackling fire going…

Jasmine: I'm down. I will just say I'm probably still on the very inexperienced side, I jump at every little sound and bug and I don't like frogs. Like, I'm that person. But I'm still down. I think that I would really have a good time. In fact, I want to go camping. 

Rachel: You can take my daughter. She loves it. And I love the powwow idea. As an Oklahoman, who also is a one 16th Native American, it's kind of a hodgepodge of different tribes, mostly Chickasaw though, that were resettled to Oklahoma. But we are very proud of our native American heritage in Oklahoma. And it's great when you can delve into it and have those experiences and the people who are really keeping that culture alive, you know, for follow on generations. It's beautiful. So I love that you got to be part of that.

Jasmine: All right. So, Rachel, what is your Toast to Joy this week?

Rachel: Well, we did come to Florida, the you know, ground zero for COVID, but to celebrate with our dearest friends their bar mitzvah of their son. And it was a small event, but I met a lot of fans of the podcast and it was really great. And I just loved that feedback and special shout out to Donna.

And then, you know, in addition to meeting those people, you know, we just got to hang out with friends and got to… Last night, driving back to our hotel, and my daughter said, “What were the moms talking about? You guys were sitting on the floor.” She was like, “What were you guys talking about?” And I'm like, “You know, mom stuff.”

But, we were talking about our lives and our children's lives and there was some heavy moments and some light moments, but really being able to share and be real. And that has been very hard, I think, especially during COVID, because we feel like everyone has lots of burdens and lots going on, so we don't want to give anyone more. We tend to hide it and think we can handle it. Because everyone is, you know, going through a lot and that's true, but I never don't want to hear my friend's problems. So that's my Toast to Joy.

Jasmine: I always cherish those moments as well, I really do. 

Rachel: I know when all those barriers break down. So it was… it was a great weekend. What about you, Amanda?

Amanda: So I have to give some love to my students, students everywhere. So I've talked to a couple other educators, and I have noticed now that we're back in the classroom, that the students are so much more engaged and happy to be there, which is so wonderful. They're like, “I'm going to answer a question. I'm going to answer a question. Ooh. Now let's ask a question.”

They're so engaging. And I know my daughter is just so excited to be in school too. So it has just been such a pleasure as an educator to see how excited my students are to be back in the classroom and to be interacting with me you know, one-on-one.

Jasmine: Yeah, same.

Rachel: Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Jasmine: Exactly. Exactly. People are like, “Oh, I'm just so glad to be in a chair looking at you while you teach me. It's so different than like, you know, the virtual stuff.” And the truth is that I like to make a lot of little jokes in class, and in virtual I wasn't getting as many laughs. And I think it was just because everyone was on mute. And so now I'm like, “oh yes, I'm still funny!”

Rachel: There's just an authenticity of being a person that it cannot be done online. Yeah, it's such a different experience. And with learning and education, it is… I can imagine a whole different level. And I know my daughter has enjoyed being back in the classroom as well.

Jasmine: Yes, mine too. 

Amanda: Thanks so much to everyone for joining us today. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. We'll see you again next week on another episode of the Suburban Women Problem.