A Book Never Shot Anyone (with Rep. Elissa Slotkin and Cara Erskine)

We’ve been talking a lot this year about how we’re tired of the extremist attacks on our kids and public education under the guise of “parents’ rights.” Especially when those same extremists refuse to talk about the real danger to our kids: gun violence. So today, we’re digging into that difficult but important topic. We hear from Michigan mom Cara Erskine about the terrifying day she heard there was an active shooter at her daughter’s school - Oxford High School. Luckily her daughter survived, but ever since that day, Cara has been an inspiring advocate for common sense gun safety measures in Michigan.

After that, Rachel gets the chance to sit down with US Congresswoman and Senate candidate Elissa Slotkin, also from the great state of Michigan. Rep. Slotkin shares why she’s been so outspoken about gun safety and how gun violence, not history books or diversity, are the real threat to our kids. She also discusses how Michigan has been able to pass so much exciting progressive legislation and why it’s so important to have a plan!

Finally, Amanda, Rachel and Jasmine raise a glass to Father’s Day, Juneteenth, festival foods, engaging with constituents, and a little “me time” in this episode’s “Toast to Joy.”

Can you believe it’s been a year since the Supreme Court took away our reproductive rights? This Thursday June 22nd at 7:30pm ET, we’re holding a virtual community event to share how we’ve been stepping up since that day. We'll be joined by special guest Amanda Zurawski, who bravely shared her story in front of the Senate about how she almost died because of anti-abortion laws in her home state of Texas. You can learn more and RSVP here.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSA

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

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YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

Transcript

The Suburban Women Problem - Season 3, Episode 24

Rachel Vindman: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Rachel Vindman. 

Jasmine Clark: I'm Jasmine Clark.

Amanda Weinstein: I'm Amanda Weinstein. 

Rachel: And you're listening to the Suburban Women Problem. We've been talking about parents' rights all year on the pod. I think we're gonna talk about it for a long time. Including Red Wine and Blue’s initiative to counter those extremist voices called the Freedom to Parent 21st Century Kids.

But not many politicians have had the courage to wade into those waters. One exception is Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin in Michigan. She's spoken about how we should be a lot more concerned about gun violence than history books. I'm so excited to share my conversation with her today. 

And before that, we'll talk to Cara Erskine, a mom in Michigan who had a child at Oxford High School during their tragic school shooting. She has become an inspiring advocate for gun safety laws, but it's honestly infuriating that we keep putting students and parents in this position. 

Before we get to those interviews, let's just talk, what have you guys been seeing in the news? What have we been talking about in our group chat? 

Amanda: Oh man. I've seen a lot about where the GOP rhetoric and legislation against LGBTQ people leads. 

Jasmine: Right. Examples!

Amanda: So we have the, you know, the nine year old girl with a pixie cut who's being accused of being trans by some random 60 year old guy at a track meet and literally stopped the whole track meet. Had to be escorted out of the track meet. Awful. Just awful. 

Jasmine: You know, one of the things that really concerns me about this is that everyone doesn't present in what I guess we consider the cis heteronormative presentation. That doesn't mean they're not cisgender. It doesn't mean they're, uh, they are LGBTQ. It just means they don't fit into some type of societal check boxes that say “girls look like this.” 

Amanda: We used to think about women who wore pants! 

Jasmine: Exactly. Come on. And while this story did happen in Canada, I still think that it's a cautionary tale. 

Rachel: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 

Jasmine: Of what can happen here in the United States. It's exactly what we've been saying can happen. You put all these things together and you just have this culture where anytime you don't agree with something, you can just accuse them of being, yeah. You know? Outside of the norm, and then somehow if you accuse someone of being outside of whatever is normal to you or to whomever has decided what normal is, then you get to literally persecute that person. You get to completely halt an entire track meet, which to be honest, track meets are long as heck. Like they are hours long. You know how upset I would be? I mean it caused all those parents to stay there for an additional half hour.

Amanda: That should be a crime itself. Oh my gosh. That's an additional charge. I don't know what that charge needs to say, but it's an additional charge other than the intimidation charge. 

Jasmine: I mean, it's insane. Like I would be so angry and then, I mean, I just think about it like… we're talking about a child here. We're talking about an older adult that terrorized a child and what happened to that child will stick with them. Honestly, it's like internet bullying come to life like in real time where you've got this person just like going after this kid and all these people are watching and staring, and of course people came to her aid and her parents were there, but at the same time, like how horrifying would it be if you're just doing the thing that you're doing, doing the sport that you love, and then all of a sudden someone's like accusing you of, you know, if you're a girl, accusing you of being a boy? And you're like, “I'm not a boy, I just, I just wanna run.”

Amanda: Yeah. Wanting a birth certificate. Oh, it's like, I wonder where they got the idea of where they need birth certificates for everything. That sounds real familiar. That sounds like familiar rhetoric. And then they also then go after the mom because it must be the mom's fault for raising what they thought was a trans kid, because she happens to have, my understanding is, two mothers who are gay, right? And then of course the mothers get accused of everything you can imagine - pedophilia, general mutilation, like please. You’re the 60 year old man at a track meet watching nine year olds.

Rachel: A creepy way. They took it very, very far. Yes. 

Amanda: But the other thing at least too, is, so in Hudson, someone went to a neighbor's house who had a pride flag and set it on fire. Because apparently he doesn't agree with what that pride flag represents. 

Rachel: Such a freedom fighter, that guy.

Amanda: I know. So brave of you to go out at night and light that flag on fire at a house where there's children. 

Jasmine: And what did that flag do to him though? Like seriously, like what did the flag do to you?

Amanda: Exactly. We just can't, they can't even let it exist and they can't have a debate without being disagreeable and criminals. It’s crazy. 

Rachel: Mm-hmm. No, it is. I mean, I, I, I am offended, I have to say, when I drive by the stupid bumper stickers and the Trump flags, but–

Amanda: You mean you don’t light every car on fire? 

Rachel: Yeah. I mean, it lasts for about three seconds and then I just go on about my day. Like, what if I did get mad? What would that accomplish for me or anyone else? It wouldn't spur me on to do good things. I do those because I want to make a change. Anything that I do comes from a place of wanting to help, wanting to give people a voice, not because I… I mean, to me it's about power. Like last week, I know Amanda, you mentioned the documentary about the Duggars, Shiny Happy People, but it's not just about the Duggars, it's about the whole movement.

Amanda: I think it’s interesting, with that documentary, when you see it goes into what you didn't see on the reality show and the things that are really hurting children. And it was common in that organization. And I think it's interesting that you see how unprotected and vulnerable the children in that movement truly are. 

And on the flip side, or on, you know, I, I guess on the same side, I don't know, but then you have the GOP right now consolidating around this “protect the children” kind of new anthem. And then we see the GOP doing stuff like banning free school lunches. That does not protect children.

Jasmine: I think they're really good at coming up with slogans that are literally the opposite of what they wanna do. And it throws you off cuz it's like “Moms for Liberty” and it's like actually we're totally against liberty. Uh, “protect the children.” Actually we are doing everything to not protect children. We are actually harming children. 

Amanda: And I think it's interesting cause then they also had. So I do love some of my economists that I follow, my economist circles then are like, “Oh, you wanna ban school lunches? Let's talk about that for a second.” And they started sharing all of the research we have about how beneficial universal school lunches are. There is new research from NBER, this research is amazing and I really liked it. So it shows that when schools offer free meals for everyone, local families reduce grocery spending, and large chains respond by dropping prices, meaning that the entire community benefits from having universal school lunches. 

Jasmine: I love that. And I think that that's such a good point. Not just, I mean, so there's the economy side of it, which makes a lot of sense to me. There's also just the fact that heck, the kids have to be there, feed them. Like, I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept. And what I really don't understand is why the GOP has decided that “don't feed the kids” is their new campaign slogan. I feel like their slogan is gonna be like, “feed the kids,” but somehow that's gonna be translated into not feeding them because that's just how they do things. 

Amanda: Oh, they're gonna start putting up signs like, you know at the zoo, it's like “don't feed the bears.” They're gonna start like nailing and signs everywhere. “Don't feed these kids. I know they look hungry. Don't feed 'em.” 

So right now, in Ohio, the state senate is doing their budgets, they're having all of the budget fights. And this is one thing that I think is a little like gerrymandering that people don't pay attention to as much. And if you look at our state budget, for example, the state senate just pulled out everything, and I mean everything, that is related to children. So they removed expanded access to free school meals. They removed expanded access to healthcare for pregnant women and children. They removed expanded access to affordable housing. 

Jasmine: Even Georgia didn't do that!

Amanda: Well, Jasmine, now you're just making me feel worse.

Jasmine: I mean, but we're still bad, but I mean, we at least kept the Medicaid for pregnant people. Come on now. Geez. 

Amanda: They stripped out everything. So the children's defense fund is like, “here's all of the things that we would like you to check some boxes on.” The Senate pulled out everything. They couldn't check one box that would help support children and their mothers.

Jasmine: But they want to force you to have a baby. 

Amanda: Correct.

Rachel: I mean, this is just the thing we just have to keep talking about and have to keep talking about. These are the bills that I think are often passed quietly and people do not talk about them. So it's important not only to discuss them but also to discuss the ramifications of them and how supporting these bills does not support children, does not support the values that they purport to want to strengthen and, and want to build. 

Jasmine: I also will say, uh, cuz you mentioned talking about these things, the budget is hard because usually the budget is some billions of dollars so big and they'll stick some great things in there while taking great things out of there. And so when you vote yes, they can say you voted to do this, but then if you vote no, they say you voted against this great thing. And so it really puts politicians in a, uh, in a, in a situation. 

And I say that as one who was one of the few people in the state of Georgia to vote against Georgia's last budget, because while we had a $6 million surplus compared to what our projections were, they cut 60 million from our higher education budget. Then they put out ads that say that I voted against fully funding public education. Me, really? You really think, I don't wanna fully fund public education, like that's a part of my campaign and I support public schools 100%. I just wanna support all the other stupid stuff y'all did. So budgets are hard. 

Amanda: Yeah. And they know they're doing that. It's a political game, but it's a political game they're playing with us and our children. 

You want to protect children? Cool. What's the number one cause of death for children in our country? You wanna protect children? Let's talk about the number one cause of their deaths. Gun violence.

Jasmine: And then they're like, “oh no, not that!”

Rachel: Unfortunately, our next guest knows all too well the toll that school shootings can take and the lack of will to address gun laws in our country. But she's taken a difficult situation and turned it into advocacy and action just like a mom. Cara Erskine, thank you so much for joining us today. 

Cara Erskine: Hi. 

Rachel: Every time you tell your story of that day, the day of the Oxford School shooting, it's so powerful. So I was hoping you could walk us through that experience now and what it was like to be a mom to go through that.

Cara: Sadly, my story is very common, which is, you know, the problem here in America. Um, I was actually signing the paperwork to move into our new apartment. And so I had my phone off, it was in my car, so I could concentrate on the paperwork. And then I get out to my car and it's just the notifications off, off, off, off. And I'm like, what is going on? And I look and I'm trying to play catch up in the group chat with my daughter, her dad, and myself. And then I see… “We've got an active shooter, this is going on” and I freak the f out. Right? Um, there's no polite way of saying that. 

So I get in the car, I am now 45 minutes away from my daughter, and so I'm going through the texts and I see “Mom, we're safe.” And they send us a picture of all the kids huddled in the corner giving a thumbs up. Trying to make the parents feel that, you know, we're okay. You don't have to worry about us, we're safe.

So I'm rushing there. And on my way to the school is a um, Michigan State Police hub, and I see all of the state troopers, black unmarked SUVs, hauling like all get out, going to the high school. I knew. I knew where they were going. So I followed them. Like I, I stayed pretty tight on their heels. And I have one of those cars that will read the texts to you, so I'm still getting texts from my daughter. “We think there's more than one shooter now. It hasn't been confirmed.” And it's just complete chaos. 

I come running up, she comes running out, and I'm just checking her to make sure that she's all in one piece, that there's nothing actually wrong with her. But she's like, she says she was one of the lucky ones because she's like, “mom, I didn't, I didn't have to step over any dead bodies.”

Jasmine: Oh my God. 

Cara: She had friends that did. One of her friends was coming from the bathroom when all of this started, and she saw a friend of hers that was shot. So she started doing CPR and trying to stop the bleed, saw the shooter, played dead, and then once he left, started CPR again. Like this is not the high school experience.

Jasmine: No. 

Amanda: You know, I'm struck that you said that this is common, that this is so common now that you have dealt with that and that we have friends who have dealt with it, and we know of communities in our states that have dealt with that. And you are, man, it feels weird saying lucky, but you're lucky that you have your daughter. But it is terrible that she went through this situation and so can you tell us a lot about what, I mean, this is a hard story to tell. It's what motivates you to do more and to advocate more and to be out there when this is a hard thing to talk about? 

Cara: Um, I hate to say that it has to happen to you before you get involved because everyone's like, oh, it's not my battle. It's not, you know, it could never happen here. But, you know, Oxford is a small country sort of town, right? The kids go hunting at the age of…. when they're potty trained, kind of, you know, I mean, that's a little bit of a exaggeration, but dark humor's kind of how I cope. 

Rachel: You'd fit in well with us! 

Cara: Right? Yeah. It keeps me from crying. 

Rachel: I think that no mom in the United States today, no matter what your political sort of affiliation, truly believes that this could not happen to them. You know? And, and I, that's why I think the work that you're doing is so powerful because when you share your story, it’s very personal, and I know it's, it's very difficult to do to share that, but when you do it, the power of it is you are talking about every mom's biggest fear and you are telling what happened when their biggest fear happened to you and describing it.

And that's why, you know, advocacy is really important and that kind of call to activism that you are, are giving people is, is so strong. Because you were saying “This did happen to me. And if you don't want it to happen to you, you need to speak out and you need to get involved.” And I just wanna thank you for what you do because I, I don't know if you're aware, like, how powerful it is. But the personal story is why it's so powerful, because it is all our fear and no one thinks that it can't happen to them. 

Cara: Which is sad, but also powerful because that's getting the momentum moving, right? I don't think we would've passed our legislation - we've got three laws passed, uh, of common and sense gun reform in Michigan now, it's the red flag laws, the secure background checks and then safety storage requirements. And I don't think that would've happened in Michigan if it weren't for the additional shooting of MSU. Like people had started it off after Oxford, but not enough people jumped in. There weren't enough bodies cuz they're like, “oh, well I don't have the background, or I don't have any formal education, or, you know, who am I? I'm just a stay-at-home mom.” But moms get shit done. And that's what, that's what it took for Michigan to get through and get our, our legislation passed.

Jasmine: So, I mean, when you were telling your story, Cara, I, as a mom, I went through something, uh, slightly similar, very recently. They got the kid before anyone actually was hurt, but I basically got the text message from my son that said, “Hey mom, there's a situation at my school.”

Cara: And your heart drops. 

Jasmine: And my son lives in Maryland and I live in Georgia. So I went through this moment of like, okay, now what can I do? And what am I doing and why do I feel like in this moment I'm failing as a parent? Because for whatever reason, my child is not safe in this moment? And, and so I, I completely understand where you're coming from. I appreciate that you're advocating, and I hate that it did take two incidences for people to kind of say, “okay, this isn't once in a lifetime. Like this stuff is happening way too often, so now we've gotta really do something.” 

I wonder how you have been able to counter this idea that the people who are pushing for these, these laws, we're not anti-gun. You've had this awful experience, but you were also in the Air Force. And your mother was a police officer. So how, how do you approach those who try to paint you as anti-gun instead of pro-gun reform? 

Cara: So anytime I get out to speak publicly, one of the things that I always end up leading with is, and I do a lot of speaking at the school board as well, I'm always getting up and speaking at the school board, and I'm like, “Look, I'm a US veteran. I'm coming to you as a veteran, as a concerned person from the community.” And I also used to be on the Ferndale Auxiliary Police Department. So I was that as well as my mom was a police officer, like you said. And I own two firearms, but they're locked up. They're put away safe. 

Most of the people that are, let's say, on the far right that I've spoken with, my key is to have one-on-one conversations with them. And I usually tend to get, “This is a hard boundary for me. I don't wanna get into this.” And I'm like, “No, no. This isn't like, we're not gonna debate or anything. I'm just curious what you think it means when I say common sense gun reform.” They're like, “Oh, you're coming to take away the guns.” I'm like, absolutely not.

Jasmine: Right.

Amanda: So I'm curious, so you're also a therapist, so you wear all of these hats, and I know I was actually surprised as a parent when, um, our kids sat down with our Congresswoman and one of the first things they talked about is that they were really worried about guns in their school. And I didn't quite, it's not a conversation actually I have with my kids regularly, and I didn't realize it was as top of mind for them as it is. So I'm wondering, you know, from your perspective as a therapist, you know, how do we deal with the epidemic of gun violence in this country and how do you think it's affecting our kids? 

Cara: It's having a massive impact. Um, another story. My daughter works at a local restaurant here. Probably six to eight months after the shooting, they, um, on Sundays they have this magician sort of person come in and do all these like balloon animals and magic tricks and stuff. A balloon popped and her and another friend dropped to take cover. Because it's such that fight, flight or freeze especially after an event like this. And then they were so dysregulated they were in the bathroom trying to calm their nervous system, breathe and stuff, so they could go back out there and start taking orders, you know? So they're they're highly affected. 

Jasmine: Yeah. It's like a chronic state of stress. 

Rachel: So, Cara, I want you to tell our listeners what they can do, how they can make a difference. In Michigan, you guys have made a difference and you've passed some powerful legislation. Unfortunately, it's been born out of a lot of tragedy. But we don't wanna get to that point. None of us wanna get to that point. But what, what can our listeners do, or what are things that you tell people that they can do? 

Cara: So to get involved, uh, find your local Red Wine and Blue. If there's not one there, reach out to the closest state. Call Everytown. Find the local Moms Demand Action and be a part. Like you don't have to have a PhD, you know, you can just get involved. We need bodies to pester the legislators, right? To go up to the capitol and kind of, um, you know, bombard them with, “Hey, what are you guys doing? Why did you vote no on this?” And hold them accountable. Sending those emails, making the phone calls. And there's tons of scripts out there if you feel intimidated and don't know how to phrase something just right. That's not what it's about. It's just making that first call and to get involved. 

More than likely you're not alone. You might feel alone like, “oh, no one else really cares about this.” But man, that's something that after the shooting here in Oxford, there's a whole group of lovely moms that I meet with, and a handful of dads as well, that are getting together, that want to get stuff done and push through and brainstorm. And then we're also there for support for each other, which is just fabulous. And every one of them had said, “Prior to the shooting, I thought I was alone.”

Rachel: Yeah, we hear so many people who think that they are the only ones and then they realize they're not. And from that and just getting together and finding courage and finding your voices together, really good things can happen and movement can happen. And Cara, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing a plan of action for us, cuz I think that there's a lot of power in both of those things and of course for all the work that you do. 

Cara: Thank you for having me. I've, I've enjoyed this and I mean, I'm a big fan of Red Wine and Blue, so I'm a little biased. 

Rachel: Well, thank you very much.

Jasmine: Thank you so much. 

Rachel: Well, that was quite the personal story.

Jasmine: You know, I think it's very important for people to tell their stories. Um, I think that one hit a little closer to home for me just because of some things that have happened with my own child. And so, but I mean, you know, just the idea of like when she finally saw her daughter just like touching her and just making sure that everything was okay, like I could literally feel myself in her shoes.

Amanda: I remember, uh, one fall leading into the back to school ads, there were, I, I can't remember, some social media post that was like, “Hey, it's back to school time. We've got bulletproof backpacks that you can buy.” 

Jasmine: Ugh, that makes me want to vomit. 

Amanda: And I was like, this is terrible. I have to buy a bulletproof backpack for the hope that that might be the one thing that stands between life and death for my kid. Then that means that my kid is not protected at school. That means my kid is not protected at church or the synagogue or at a concert. My kid is not protected. So like, again, going back to like hearing the GOP say they wanna protect children, I'm sorry, but it's falling just a little bit flat.  

Rachel: Oh, for sure. It's just so insincere, and I think any reasonable thinking person can see that. But what we have to get around is the aspect of power. I mean, I think that's what we're up against so much is this aspect of power. And there are, as Cara mentioned, so many more people who feel the way we do, but we have to find a way to reach them. And sometimes that's reaching them with messaging that actually gets through, you know, through that, that skin of misinformation that's been fed to them. And we have to find a way to do that. The best way, I think, is to continue to share stories and we give people permission to question things that they haven't maybe ever. 

Well, we're gonna take a quick break right now. When we come back, we'll have my conversation with Michigan Congresswoman and Senate candidate Elissa Slotkin.

BREAK

Rachel: Our guest today is a US congresswoman from the great state of Michigan. Before entering politics, she worked for the CIA and the Department of Defense, and this February she announced her run for Senate. Elissa Slotkin, thank you so much for joining us on the Suburban Women Problem. 

Representative Elissa Slotkin: Of course. Thanks for having me.

Rachel: It is absolutely our pleasure. You know, before you ran for office, you worked in defense and intelligence. I think you worked with one of my favorite people, um, my husband. He says only the best things about you. I can tell he really likes you because I know which of his compliments he reserves for the people that he really likes, and these are the things he says about you.

So you did three tours in Iraq as an intelligence analyst. What inspired you to dedicate your life to public service? 

Rep. Slotkin: Well, you know, I, I am, um, I'm what's called a 9/11 baby, right? I was someone who was already interested in international affairs and frankly, um, international development was my focus for, for my first couple years outta college. But I happened to be on my second day of grad school in New York City on 9/11. I just moved to the city. I was in some sort of like remedial economics class and I walked out of the class, at Columbia, and a guy I had met at orientation said, “It's so weird. A little plane, I guess just hit the World Trade Center.”

And that ticked off a day that, you know, most people remember where they were and who they were with and what they were doing. It's a generational event. And for me, by the time the smoke cleared that day, I knew I was gonna go into international security. And I literally switched my concentration in grad school, went into international security policy, got recruited by the CIA right out of grad school. And within my first year at the CIA was on my first tour in Iraq alongside the military. So the events of 9/11 were deeply formative for my professional life.

Rachel: I love that. And you have continued to serve in many different capacities.

I knew I wanted to have you on the pod when I heard you talking about how… if we really care about kids, we should focus less on book bands and more on gun safety. I love that. It's so simple and so true. But so far a lot of politicians have been really afraid to touch the whole parents' rights issue. Why is that something you wanted to speak on and why do you think so many politicians are unwilling to touch that subject? 

Rep. Slotkin: Well, I mean, look, I, I unfortunately, became the first congresswoman in America to have two school shootings in her district. Oxford High School, November of 2021, Michigan State University,  February of 2023. And, um, you know, I have served three tours in Iraq. I carried, you know, a weapon. I went to all the trainings and the combat medicine and, and all those things and saw terrible things out in Baghdad. But I have to say that school shootings for me rank right up there with some of the worst things I've ever seen or had to deal with. And it's because the same problems that we were dealing with in a war zone are now being handled in our schools. 

And I find myself, you know, when you go to funeral after funeral and vigil after vigil, when you're sitting with a group of 14 year olds and they're describing this, like, you know how they're hyper aware and hypervigilant how they, they can't stand to be in crowds. They're describing the same PTSD that I saw in people who I served with in Iraq. And I'm having to explain what PTSD is and the symptoms of it, because their brain chemistry has changed temporarily because of trauma. And when you do that with teenagers, with people who were just, you know, parents who are just sending their kids off to school, I challenge anyone to go into that situation and come out an unchanged person.

And so it became a passion project for me, and I grew up with guns, right? I grew up on my family farm, like I said, carried a Glock and an M-4 in three tours in Iraq. I'm not a, you know, anti second amendment person. But there is this totally, utterly fake contradiction or you know, this fake choice, excuse me, right? Between like, I'm a gun owner or I care about keeping my children safe in schools. 

So I think for me, number one, that issue really personally affected me. And then to your question, I think we all know that coming outta Covid, there is this concept in American society of parental rage. There is a lot of parental rage. It's just being vectored on the wrong things. It's being misdirected into these manufactured culture war things. A book never shot a single child. You know? Teaching Black history does not threaten our children. Being inclusive as a society is not a physical threat to our children. Gun violence and the diseases of despair are physical threats to our children. And as a security professional, I'm not gonna mealy mouth threats. That's what I have done is try and prevent threats my whole life. So I'm not gonna mealy mouth it or be concerned about saying these things. You know, I think people are, are scared of that parental rage, and what I say is instead of being scared of it, let's vector it onto the things that are truly threatening our kids. 

Rachel: I couldn't agree more. I think we're seeing people who try to co-opt and use this idea of parental rage, and it's really blowing back in their faces because even their own constituency is saying, that's not what we meant. We didn't want this. This is not what we wanted. I mean, yeah, we're upset, but not this. I'm not sure that they can pivot as quickly as they need to, to actually capture what they want for the reasons they want, but I guess we'll see.

We often talk on our podcast about Michigan as a success story. You know, in last year's midterms, Democrats won a trifecta in the House, the Senate, and the governor's seat. And we've been really just so inspired by what Michigan Democrats have been able to get done as a result on abortion, on gun safety, on so many issues. Why do you think Michigan Democrats won up and down the ballot last year? 

Rep. Slotkin: Look, I think first of all, it's important to remember that six years ago today, Michigan had a Republican governor, Attorney General, Secretary of State House, Senate, Supreme Court, and Congressional delegation, and we had just voted for Trump. So like it, this has been a process, over the last six years. It wasn't just this last election. We did a lot through ballot initiatives cuz we couldn't get anything through our legislature. And I encourage anyone listening to ask that question in your state, you know, what can I do through, if you live in a red state, what can I do through a ballot initiative that I can't get through my legislature? We got rid of political gerrymandering, expanded the right to vote, all while we still had a Republican legislature. 

But the most important thing that we did is we had a plan. And I think this is the difference between being a Democrat in a swing state or a red state and being a Democrat in like a super blue, all democratic area. Good intentions are not good enough. You have to have a plan for the era that we live in. And we had a plan, and that's why you saw, um, when we got the leak a year ago that Roe was gonna be overturned, Michigan had a ballot proposal already ready, already cleared through the lawyers ready to go. We got 800,000 signatures in eight weeks. It's nearly one out of every 10 Michiganders. So that we could get Roe on our ballot and then we voted for it and codified it, right? 

So if we had just been sitting there and said, oh, woe is me. We're about to lose the right to an abortion here cuz we're a full ban state, or we were, then we'd be living in a state right now where you can't have a safe D&C, right? For a miscarriage. So it's having a plan and executing with some logic and data behind that plan. And that would be a lesson I, again, I think the whole Democratic party could learn from right now. 

Rachel: Could you share just a little bit more about the next steps for some of the progressive legislation we're seeing and what do you think next year looks like in Michigan?

Rep. Slotkin: I think it's very interesting what's gone on in the Michigan legislature. I call it a tale of two senates. We have the Michigan Senate where we have a one seat majority for Democrats. We have the US Senate where we have a one seat majority for Democrats, and the differences between these two senates are stark. 

The Michigan Senate, we are spending that majority, we are legislating at a serious clip, right? Everything from codifying Roe protections, gun violence or gun safety legislation, protecting LGBTQ folks, reversing right to work so that our unions are more competitive in Michigan. I mean, we did a blitz in the first a hundred days, whereas the US Senate, um, frankly mostly because of the filibuster really isn't legislating very often.

So the stuff that we really need to focus on now is thinking about how we fund education and how we make sure we're handling the funding of our schools correctly. How we, um, invest in job training so that all of our great young people are ready to go into all the jobs we have available. And in Michigan, we have a ton of advanced manufacturing and, um, trades, skilled trades where you can make a lot of money, you just need a little bit of training. I think all of those things are on the docket. Mental health. It is just so clear that we had a crisis on mental, of mental health issues before covid, and now it's like off the charts. And for all of these key, um, professions, we have shortages. Teachers, mental health professionals, nurses, fire and first responders, and police. So how do we make sure that Michigan, you know, is supporting the young people who wanna go into those professions? And we have some proposals on that. 

So all of those things, I think, are on the docket for the next year. And I think the, the big one, the governor just announced it in one of our big bipartisan conferences, is, you know, how do we attract more young people to stay in Michigan, and how to bring more people in? And that means attracting other young people, but also immigration. Just being very matter of fact that we need immigrants in this country. Legal, vetted immigration. And Michigan does especially. So those things are all on the docket for the next year and a half or so.

Rachel: Well, it sounds very exciting and I, I love to hear you as a federal office holder talk about what's going on in your state. I think a lot of people find it to be like, you know, two parallel tracks and it's not. I mean, you go to Washington and you represent your district and hopefully you represent the state of Michigan in a little while, but you also are entirely plugged in to what's going on in your home state and helping the legislature there pass the bills that will also help Michiganders on, you know, on a different level. And I, I think sometimes that's gotten a little lost is how, how groups work together. But we are excited to see what happens in Michigan.

I, as I mentioned, I'm living in Florida right now where we, um, we do not have a Democratic trifecta. Maybe you heard. So what can other states, you know, learn from Michigan besides, you know, I think you had a plan and you worked for it and you elected people, but what do you think Michigan did to tap into this idea? You had a Republican governor, you voted for Trump. Like what kind of tipped the balance and made people change their minds? 

Rep. Slotkin: Well, look, I mean, there's, there's no doubt about it. We were helped by the growing extremism on the other side. I mean, yeah, we, some of this, you know, I think the Democrats have done an amazing job in Michigan, but we also were running against some people who were who were expressing views that maybe very loud base voters liked on their side, but the average Michigander just could not handle. So I think, um, highlighting that and being able to, to, to show that to that practical Midwestern voter was very important. 

But I think a couple other things. Number one, um, that mobilization of voters, in Michigan it's a combination. It's getting out base voters, hardcore Democrats in our cities especially, and making sure voter turnout is strong. But it's also persuading voters in our small towns, in our suburbs, who are swing voters, who are independent voters, who are moderate Republican voters, to vote for a Democrat. And in Michigan it's just math. You cannot win elections just on base Democratic voters. So it's understanding that and going into the equation that way. And that means you have groups and organizations that focus on turnout and registering young voters and making sure people go to the polls. 

But you also have folks who know how to go into really red areas, show up in places where Democrats have not been in like 40 years, and what do what I tend to do pretty well, which is lose better in red areas. You lose better. So instead, and people didn't understand the night of the election in November, this past November, we had some press there and every 30 minutes my campaign manager would get up on stage and be like, make all the announcements of the totals that came in. And she'd say, “Guess what guys? We lost Shiawassee County with 43% of the vote, or whatever it was, and there'd be a cheer from the crowd. “And we lost this town by two points” and there'd be a cheer. And all the press is like, “what is going on?” 

Rachel: Why are you cheering? Do you guys understand math?

Rep. Slotkin: Yes. And we were like, “We're losing better than the average Democrats. So we know we're gonna win as the night goes on.” So I don't know that Democrats always do such a good job of actually going out to red areas and showing up when a lot of people may not love you there. You gotta have a thick skin. 

Rachel: My former district, uh, my representative was Abigail Spanberger, and she's pretty good at that too. She talks about stories, I heard her speak last year, of just walking up to, you know, a group of rural farmers, like sitting around having coffee one morning and just being like, “Let's talk about it. Let's unpack this.” Like sometimes you just have to come through and you have to meet people where they are and talk to them and not be afraid of it. Frankly, I think women are pretty darn good at that. If I might say so myself. 

Rep. Slotkin: Yeah, I think that's true. I think that's true. 

Rachel: Well, given all the progressive wins last year, it might be easy to assume that Michigan Democrats have an easy path in 2024, but we can't take any seat for granted. And that includes the one you're running for. What do you want everyone to know before the 2024 election, not just in Michigan, but everywhere? 

Rep. Slotkin: I think that, you know, we need to learn from the recent past and remember that just because we think something seems obvious, we think it's clear, that… you know, maybe the people listening to your show here don't think that Donald Trump could win another national election. Or that, uh, election deniers, you know, extreme types, couldn't win. That doesn't mean they can't win. It just means we all live in our own, we call them “silos of excellence.” Where we, we, we talk to our people and we, you know, you have to really realize that we are kind of in an echo chamber of our own making. And, um, just like no one expected maybe Donald Trump to win in 2016. Those wins are so possible.

And, um, and then secondly, that if you, I challenge everyone listening, if you're a part of a democratic organization or a nonpartisan voting engagement organization, ask them what the plan is. Have the leadership explain in numbers how you're gonna get to your goal. It is important that we push ourselves to be more strategic. And I, I think that that only makes us stronger. And certainly for Michigan, we are so proud of all of our wins, but there's not one Michigander who feels like this is permanent. The minute you sleep on Michigan, it wants to move back and vote for a moderate Republican. So it takes work to keep it up, not just to get there. 

Rachel: Yeah, no, I completely agree and I know you are an expert in, uh, several countries with authoritarian backgrounds and authoritarian leaders. And the thing is, like, every election that we have, I think for the rest of my lifetime, is going to be either securing democracy or a step towards authoritarianism. Hopefully a small step, but I mean, it doesn't, that doesn't have to be the case. We have to take the threat real, and we can't take anything for granted. 

Rep. Slotkin: For sure. Yeah, I think as someone who has studied other countries for a living, you often talk about these like “lost decades” or decades of political instability. Where people inside the country are so turned against each other that nothing moves, nothing changes, nothing moves forward. There's really no progress. It's sort of stuck. And I think we are in one of those decades of political instability. I, I put us at about six years in, that's how I wake up in the morning. But in that decade, we just have to do a better job of protecting our rights and our democracy. It just has to be, you have to be more vigilant. We have to play more offense and stop playing this weak, shallow defense we often play on things like choice or other rights. 

And so, um, you know, I do think we'll get out of it. I am actually very hopeful. I hope Michigan serves as a hopeful example that you can, you know, I tell people we didn't just flirt with extremism. We had a full blown affair, a torrid affair, and now we regret it. You know, and we're making up for it. But, you know, we will get through this era, but it's gonna take engaged citizens and principled leaders. Like it takes a few important things. It means people doing a little bit more than they're used to doing, and then principled leaders ready to receive the ball and do something about it. 

Rachel: Oh, I love it. Um, wow. Thank you so much. That was just amazing. Um, we do have to end every interview with some rapid fire questions. So are you ready? 

Rep. Slotkin: I'm ready. 

Rachel: Okay. What is one food that our listeners have to try if they visit Michigan? 

Rep. Slotkin: Grilled salami. On the barbecue.

Rachel: Oh, wow.  Very slavic of you. Okay. So what do you do for self-care? 

Rep. Slotkin: Well, I spend a lot of time on my family farm, um, which is very quiet with my dogs. A lot of acres and lovely antidote to Washington.

Rachel: Perfect. Uh, what piece of legislation are you most proud of? 

Rep. Slotkin: There's a number of them, but the one that I feel all the time is the PACT Act. It's personal to me. Right? It was about all those, um, Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who were exposed to burn pits in their tours and combat zones and who are now experiencing a bunch of weird symptoms and early cancers. And we passed legislation that gave another 3.5 million younger veterans full access to the VA. Every veteran listening should go and register with the VA before August 1st. Get your intake, it's very quick, um, so that you're registered and all you have to do is prove that you served in a war zone. That's it. 

Rachel: And if you're listening and you know someone who served and they haven't registered, make sure they go register it. And tell everyone you know. All right. That's the end of our rapid fire questions. Where can people go to find out more about you and your work? 

Rep. Slotkin: Um, that's a great question. We have a website, https://elissaslotkin.org/. And thanks for the time and thanks for having me!

Rachel: It's been such an honor to talk to you and thank you for joining me on the Suburban Women Problem.

Rep. Slotkin: Of course. Have a great one.

BREAK

Jasmine: Welcome back everyone. So Rachel, I loved your interview with Elissa Slotkin. I think she brought up a lot of good things, but one of the things that really kinda resonated with me, and, and Cara talked about this as well, is this idea that our, our students, our kids, our our children, are basically experiencing the same PTSD that people who have served in actual war zones have experienced. 

Rachel: I was so impressed with the Congresswoman and so impressed that she talks about this, and I know for a fact when she talks to people, she talks about the parental rage issue, and we need more people that are willing to wade into that water. It's really important. And I was so, so impressed with her. I, I hope for good things for Michigan and her senate candidacy. 

Amanda: We need our elected officials to pass legislation that actually helps us, rather than talking points that don't have anything to do with us. And to do that, you have to have the conversations and know what people are talking about. What are people talking about day to day? What are their biggest concerns day to day? So it says a lot for someone to do that.

Rachel: I'm just gonna say she's a woman and I think that that matters.

Amanda: I mean, she's got an unfair advantage.

Jasmine: No, it’s a good point! It is a good point though. I think that for so long we've heard that women won't make good leaders because of X, Y, and Z, but I really truly believe that there are a lot of excellent leaders that also happen to be women. But it's not just be like, it just, it's not an aside. They are excellent leaders because they are women. And they pursue leadership in a way that just engulfs everyone and makes sure that everyone is taken care of. Cause that's what, that's what women and es, I won't say especially, but women and moms do. We want to make sure that people are taken care of. And so I think it's a leadership style that is lacking a lot of times when all of the leaders look exactly the same and they all have Y chromosomes.

Amanda: I know, and Michigan's got a lot of these strong women. Like, come on, Michigan, share the wealth! Let us have a little bit!

Rachel: So on that note, we are going to end with something positive. It's been a bit of a heavy episode. We do like to end with a Toast to Joy, something positive. But I do think there are positive aspects of this, of this episode. Just some heavy ones too, but there is some hope. Anyway, we're gonna end on our Toast to Joy. And Amanda, what is your Toast to Joy this week?

Amanda: Love that. You know, only light can battle the dark. So here is my little bit of light. My Toast to Joy today is, so we're coming off of Father's Day. So I do want to do a Toast to Joy to all of the dads in my life, which includes Dan and Mikey and my husband Casey, who, uh, we took him to Cedar Point, which was 10 hours of fun for him and 10 hours of me standing there. But it's fine. It's fine. He had a really great day and the kids loved it. But it was a whole bunch of fun things. He just gets to like, go have fun with the kids and go on all their rides. 

Jasmine: Do you not get on rides? 

Amanda: No, I hate rides. I like, um, food though. I can tell you what, I had some funnel cake fried shrimp that were amazing. Some fried fish that I think was walleye that came out of Lake Erie, also amazing. And those were my two favorite things about Cedar Point. 

Jasmine: Gotcha. I love that. 

Amanda: All right. Jasmine, what is your Toast to Joy? 

Jasmine: All right, so we are actually celebrating several holidays this weekend. And so, uh, along with Father's Day, uh, this weekend several communities celebrated Juneteenth. And so I got an opportunity to speak at one of the Juneteenth celebrations in downtown Atlanta at Centennial Park. It was an amazing event, with thousands of people. 

And I was speaking at this event, and I'm gonna tell y'all a secret, I did not prepare remarks. They asked me to speak like earlier in the week and I was like, yeah, sure, I'll do it. And then as I was walking up there, I was like, I'm not exactly sure what I'm gonna say, but you know, I've talked about legislation plenty of times, I've got this. And so we get there and the guy that I'm speaking with, one of my colleagues, he's like, “Hey, I got an idea. Let's just basically give an intro, tell people who we are, tell people what we do, and then let's get them to ask us questions and we can just answer their questions right on the spot.” And I was like, “Uh, I don't know, but all right, let's do it.” 

And we got some amazing questions and it just kind of reinvigorated me. It reminded me of why I decided to go into politics in the first place and why it matters to actually talk to people. So first, happy Juneteenth, but also an amazing festival experience for me. Also had some great festival food as well. There was so much food at that festival. All right. So Rachel, what is your Toast to Joy?

Rachel: Wel, my Toast to Joy this week is I have some, um, alone time. I have big plans to celebrate my dog's, uh, the puppy's first birthday. But just some time alone to work and reflect, um, on some things. I have some, some planning I wanna do and a lot of work I wanna get done and I'm really grateful to have this time to do that. It is very exceedingly rare, I would say not just very rare but exceedingly rare, that I have so much time to kind of concentrate on my work. I usually have to get it in between, like, you know, drop off and pick up and other things going along. But since it's summer, um, those aren't limiting factors. So I have some real ambitions. So I will report back next week and let you know if any of this was accomplished. But I have high hopes, uh, at this point.  

Jasmine: That's exciting. I love it. I need to do like a writer's retreat because I'm writing a chapter and a book and yeah, I haven't done it yet, but I definitely need to do it. So being all by myself would be great. But yeah, it doesn't really happen often for me either. 

Rachel: We should do an episode on just the strategy of getting stuff done, maybe. we can, if we can ever break out of our activism. Maybe we'll have time to do a self-help podcast.

Jasmine: Maybe if the world would stop burning for just a second so we can talk about fun things.

Rachel: My goodness, there's actually a lot of truth to that. But again, for a different episode. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We're still collecting personal stories about how the fall of Roe motivated us to get involved. So if you have a story to share, we'd love to hear it. You can submit it at go.redwine.blue/dobbs, and tomorrow night we'll actually be coming together to share some of those stories. If you want to join us for a community event where you can hear inspiring stories of ordinary women taking action and changing history, you can visit our events page or you can check out the link in our show notes. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next week at another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.