High-Fiving for Humanity (with Jennifer Clawson)

Katie Paris met Jennifer at the gym. It’s a gym of mostly women, where encouragement and high-fives are the norm and pull-ups are celebrated alongside wins for reproductive rights. 

But neither woman could have predicted that their gym friendship would lead to Jennifer co-creating a TroubleNation group called Hope In The Heights that now has more than 400 members! And still, Jennifer considers herself “humanitarian” rather than “political.” She says it’s just about doing the right thing so that we’re all able to live up to our potential.

We can find friends — and fellow TroubleMakers — in every part of our lives. For many women, the gym is a place of community and strength. Jennifer says the women she’s met there, and in Hope in the Heights, have helped her work through the anger and grief over last year’s election. Now they’re getting together every month to fight extremism and bring hope back to Ohio.

“You’re going to lose your shit,” Jennifer says. “And it’s okay! Feel the fear and do it anyway.”

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA

YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

Transcript

 Jennifer: So I think the important thing is that you just keep putting one foot in front of the other and doing what you can on a daily basis and stepping back when you can't. But I think the fact that we have formed this group kind of holds us accountable to continue to do something.

Katie: Hey everybody. Welcome to How To Not Lose Your Sh*t. My name is Katie Paris and I'm the founder of Red Wine and Blue. 

LaFonda: And I'm LaFonda Cousin, a part-time yoga instructor, self-care advocate, and the chief people officer here at Red Wine and Blue. 

Katie: Okay, so I'm super excited today because we are going to have a woman named Jennifer Clawson, who is a friend of mine that I met at the gym.

Then she became a community leader still is today of one of our local Red Wine and Blue TroubleNation groups. Hers is called Hope in the Heights, which I love that name. So the evolution of this woman from, you know, gym friend to local community leader. It's just got me really thinking about the role of going to the gym in my own life and how it's been a source of really my own mental health.

There's a lot to lose our sh*t about this week. We are seeing, you know, ICE vans come into communities more and more.

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: Masked agents, taking kids out of apartment buildings, troops deployed into American cities. Um, our communities are under assault from this government and we have the government shut down continuing in the midst of all of it.

So, I mean, yeah. There's a lot to hold going on in the world, a lot to lose our shit over. And, um, we have, we have got to dig deep in terms of finding all the sources that we can for, strengthen ourselves and in our communities. And so this is one really cool way I think that we can explore that this week to keep our bodies strong, to keep our spirit strong.

You know, I've been someone who's gone to the gym since I, I don't know, I can't even remember. Probably like high school when I was playing sports and started then and just kept it up. And still to this day, if I'm just in a mood, I need to get my butt to the gym. You know, it's just like those endorphins, it helps me. It just helps me so much. So what about you though? I mean, you have become this like. Yoga mama. 

LaFonda: So I was not like a gym girl. I didn't love it. I still don't love to work out. It's not my favorite thing to do. I thought that I was gonna be a runner at some point, but I am definitely of the mind that if I am running, everybody else should be running too 'cause something is chasing us. 

Katie: Fair. 

LaFonda: Do not– If I'm running, you should run. Um, but I like, I, I liked yoga. I did yoga as part of like, you know, just like occasionally I would do yoga, but many years ago, I can't even remember how many years ago it has been at this point, I think it's like 15 years ago and I was in a really bad car accident.

I was hit by a drunk driver. Um, my car was t-boned by a drunk driver. I was on the passenger side and, um, fractured two bones in my spine. Had to spend a week in the hospital. And so from there, I like had back problems, like really, really bad back problems, physical therapy, and had to get injections and all of the things.

Fast forward. It's 2020. My daughter is in high school. I decided that I wanted to get healthier. Something was like, you know, if you want to make sure that you are there for your daughter's graduation and you're there for her college graduation, and you know, if, if she decides that she wants to have children, you wanna be there for those things.

And I decided to get healthier. And so in my mind it was like, just get on the treadmill and walk for 10 minutes a day. Just get on the treadmill and walk for 15 minutes a day and 15 minutes turned into 30 minutes, and then 45 minutes and then an hour. And then I was reading, you know, a book on the treadmill.

And then I did like an Apple fitness class where I took, I did a yoga class and it just like sparked again that I really loved yoga and that love for yoga came back. But, um, I was still having, you know, these back issues. And so I took yoga teacher training classes because I wanted to understand how my own body worked.

I started to talk about it to other people and they were like, “but what about me?” And so I started teaching 'cause people were interested in the idea of yoga. Um. To me, it felt like an important opportunity to bring yoga to spaces where people didn't typically look like me. Um, you go to yoga classes, yoga teachers don't look like me.

They didn't have body types like me. And so that was important to me. And so then I just, I kept doing it because that started to feel like the right thing to do was introducing yoga to communities that weren't always privy to yoga or didn't have yoga teachers or yoga instructors that look like me. And so there's just so many benefits to taking care of the full wellness of a person, mental, physical, emotional wellness of a person. And that's always just been intriguing to me. 

So there's what I like, what I tell people all the time that I like about yoga is like as an introvert, it's a single person workout situation. Like it's about me. I tell my classes like, this is your opportunity to be selfish, but there's also community, like you're doing it as a group, but you're focused on yourself. So you get the best of both worlds and, and yoga to me so yeah.

Katie: I mean, it sounds like, yeah, I mean, you, you went into this as a very needed self-care routine to recover from a terrible accident, and then it evolved for you into community care. And then what's been really cool is that how you have brought this offering to, in beautiful ways, to Red Wine and Blue. You've done yoga offerings with our team. You've done some wellness meditations on Zoom calls with lots of our members at times where we need to refocus. 

LaFonda: I've been grateful for that. Yeah, team North Carolina has invited me to some things and so yeah, it's been great. 

Katie: The gym for me has always been a place where I sort of escape from my work life, other stresses in my life from political organizing, but it's evolved in a really unexpected way for me.

I think it might have something to do with the fact that the gym I go to is run by women. Oh, probably 90% of the membership is women and there is just like a sense of empowerment and community there. And so the fact that my friendships at this gym have evolved in a way of women working together in Ohio for reproductive rights, women now working together locally to organize in their community.

It makes going to the gym something I truly look forward to, to connect with these women. And also, like, they keep it real. It's not like, okay, we show up every day and we're like, okay, in between pull-ups, like, okay, what are we doing at our next meeting to organize? I mean, sometimes we're actually, but like, but that's, that's not normal.

Like usually we're just supporting each other and like, you know, cheering each other on. And so it's been kind of this surprise and I've just been thinking about it more lately with. This podcast where we're exploring like that intersection between self-care and politics, and this has been an intersection in my own life that I never expected.

Yeah. I'm excited that we have Jennifer here. 

LaFonda: I am too, I'm excited to talk to her about all of the things. 

Katie: So a hundred percent. So we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, we're gonna be joined by my friend Jennifer Clason. 

BREAK

Katie: Hi Jennifer. Welcome to How to Not Lose Your Sh!t. How are you doing today? 

Jennifer: I'm good, I'm good. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Katie: It's always good to see your face. 

Jennifer: Thank you. 

Katie: So Jennifer, I want to see if between the two of us, we can put together how exactly we met and how it is that you came to be a fierce leader in our own community of Hope in the Heights, A local Red Wine and Blue TroubleNation group. So I definitely know that we were like, we just met at the gym. 

Jennifer: We did. 

Katie: So there's time slots, right? It's like a small group training situation, you guys. And so basically Jennifer and I were showing up at the same time slot, you know, and the people are kind of regulars in a certain time slot. Like they kind of become your people. You know, you're, we've probably high fived like several hundred times. 

Jennifer: We did. And it was funny because it was the day of one of our elections, actually, I had done some things with Red Wine and Blue. I had done some of the, um, text canvassing. I had signed up and done the emails, and it was something that I just always thought, oh, you know, that's, that's pretty cool. You know, I'll do what I can. And then I never knew who you were. And then I think the day of this election you had on a, um, a green hoodie– 

Katie: Importantly. What did the green hoodie say? What did it say? 

Jennifer: It said, it said something about voting in Ohio. I don't remember. 

Katie: It said yes on issue one. It was our reproductive rights ballot initiative in 2023. Yes. 

Jennifer: Yes. And I saw you later on that day on Facebook on Red Wine and  Blue. You had made a, um, a video and I was like, I almost lost my mind.

I was like, oh, that's her. That's Katie. Like, I had no idea. So then the next time I saw you at the gym, I fangirled out on you because I was like, that is so cool. Look what, look at what you have built. Look at this thing that you have created. 

Katie: Aw. 

Jennifer: So I just found that so inspiring. So that's, that's actually how we, um,–  

Katie: Okay. And if I'm remembering correctly that you made this connection because in the video I was wearing the green hoodie. 

Jennifer: You were wearing the green hoodie. Exactly. 

Katie: Okay. So, so the moral of the story is I need to wear the green hoodie every day so I could make connections between people I see at the gym or the grocery store or whatever. And Red Wine and Blue. 

Jennifer: Exactly. 'cause I knew your, I knew your name. I didn't even know what I knew your name in the gym was Katie. But I didn't know your last name. I knew Katie Paris was Red Wine and Blue. So then when I saw your face on the it all, it all came together. So that's how that happened.

Katie: I love that. Okay, so from there, I'm sure we celebrated the victory for issue one. 'cause if that was election day, 

Jennifer: Yes. 

Katie: We were probably like, oh my gosh, is it gonna pass all this? 

Jennifer: Exactly. And fortunately that did pass that, that that passed. 

Katie: Yes. Yes. And that was so exciting in Ohio because, you know, to be able to pull off such a big win for reproductive freedom in a state where people weren't so sure that we could do that. Like, and I remember that being super bonding. I mean, our gym is mostly women.

Jennifer: Right.

Katie: And, and cheers to the guys too, who helped make it happen here in Ohio. But like that was a really. LaFonda knows about my high fiving at the gym. Like we just high five a lot. It's very supportive. At first I was like, I don't know if I can do this. 

All these people are high fiving, but now I'm like so into it and then, you know, so we're high fiving 'cause we did our pull-ups and then we're high fiving 'cause we passed reproductive rights and like, yeah. And then, okay, so then let's, then, okay, so then how does this evolve to you becoming a leader? Of Hope in the Heights.

Jennifer: So at some time, at some point you approached me and Amy, who, who was another gym member. None of us had been really politically active before, and I still don't really consider myself politically active. I, I consider it just. Doing my part, but all of us felt like there was something that we had, we, we all had to do something.

Um, and that was kind of how, how we came together. And even after our first meeting, they laugh at me because they were like, I, I had to leave early. And I found out later on, four of them were like, “Oh, we're never gonna see her again” because I was so not sure. But then later on that afternoon, I started texting them all these ideas and they said, okay, well I guess she's in.

But, but it, you know, it took a while for it to. It took a while for it to sink in. You know, everything that everything is that is for you, you don't necessarily recognize is for you in that moment. But I, I kind of had to like, think on it and let it brew. And the more I thought about it, the more I thought it was really a good idea.

We live in, like I said, Northeast Ohio. Northeast Ohio has used to swing elections. Um, and our hope was that we could swing this very important one. Unfortunately in this case it, it didn't, didn't quite work the way we wanted to, but– 

Katie: In 2024, but now we're on to 2025. 

Jennifer:Exactly. 

Katie: And you all have one of the group leads, Jenny is running for school board locally.

Jennifer: She is. She is. 

Katie: And Jenny was actually a trainer at our gym. So we know that woman can hold us accountable and lead. 

Jennifer: She can. She can. 

Katie: And Jennifer, so it started with just a few of you and now. I mean, how many people have joined up with Hope in the Heights? 

Jennifer: So we have I 420 some 

LaFonda: Wow. 

Jennifer: On our roles. 

LaFonda: Yeah. So I'm hearing the gym is the place to recruit for Trouble Nation.

Jennifer: It, it seems to be a good spot. 

Katie: Strong body, strong spirits. You know, I, can we take into this idea, Jennifer, you're saying of like, I didn't consider myself political. I still, I still don't really, but here you are. Leading this badass group that is engaging women and men locally and all kinds of actions.

Like, I think that's so interesting. Like it even says on the Red Wine and Blue website, like, not political, no problem. You know, join us. And why is it for you that you think, you know, you don't, you don't consider yourself political, but like, I'm not political, but what, what is that about for you or you know, and for other women you think?

Jennifer: I think before, yeah. I mean, politics touches everybody and everything, and if you didn't know that before, 

LaFonda: You definitely know now. 

Jennifer: We definitely have learned it in the, in the last 10 years. Um, you know, I've always been a democrat, but when I've lived through Republican presidents like George Bush, Ronald Reagan, both George Bush's, I didn't feel like my very existence was on the line.

We lived in an area where you at, in a time where you could have political disagreements, but still you felt like you were functioning as a country, as a democracy. You didn't worry about people getting, you know, snatched up off the streets. You didn't worry about getting your rights just stripped away.

So, um, I think in those times I just felt like I wasn't political. You know, I definitely voted in every election. I think that's, that's crucial. But now, um, now I guess I would say I'm, I'm political, but I don't even put it in those words. I say it's more I'm just a humanitarian and this is the way you have to be engaged to make sure that we are all able to exist and live up to our potential without having our right stripped, without having our healthcare taken away, without being judged by our skin color. And kept out of, um, kept out of society for all of these reasons that, that we're seeing now. So, um, I guess being a political, being political is more a question of just trying to do the right thing so that people can just live.

LaFonda: That resonates very deeply with me. I think that, you know, Katie and I had that conversation. When I started, I say it all the time that, you know, I, I didn't consider myself political for all the same reasons that, like, to me, like being human and just having the right to exist every day should not be political.

And so I felt the same way. I, I didn't have a fear of just walking out of the front door and, and. Having friends or family or whoever not come back, that doesn't feel like it should be political to me. So you're right, these last 10 years or so have felt very, very different and that it, it just doesn't feel like it should be political, so that, that just feels, feels very in line with what drew me to Red Wine and Blue and why these conversations I think are really important right now.

Katie: I think that we, when we think about, when someone says like, oh, you're just being political, we mean by that, like you're grandstanding. You know, you're just talking off of talking points. You're trying to figure out what the advantage may be for you. But Jennifer, you're right too. Like ultimately politics does impact all of us.

So to me, the heart of what y'all are saying is like. I'm gonna influence politics. I am going to be in politics, but I'm not going to be of it. You know, and the what's at stake here is, is much bigger than any kind of game. 

You mentioned how devastating the losses were in 2024. Jennifer, I'm curious, has sharing that experience with other women in your group, did that, did that help? You know, y'all coming together? 

Jennifer: It did. So the, um, the four of us at the time who were, who were organizers, got together the next day and actually that night or the, the next night because, you know, we got the results early in the morning.

We, we were texting. Back and forth and you know, the wine was flowing for some of us 

LaFonda: Right there in the name. 

Katie: I mean, that's what we do. The group chat and maybe a little wine, you know. 

Jennifer: We had the group chat flowing and then we got to, then we got together and in person the next day and, and just vented because we were very angry and a lot of that anger still is not dissipated. 

But I think, you know, there was, there was a period of time and, and we're, I think we're, we still work through this depending on the day. Um, one of the questions was how do, how do we continue to lead a group when we feel so hopeless inside? 

Katie: Oh, that's real. 

Jennifer: I think for me, the answer has been actually drawing on, drawing on the, the four of them. Also, when I need strength, taking a break, when I need it, kind of narrowing in on what I can actually do and what I can't do, because I can't take it all on. None of us can take it all on. You could only take on certain portions of it and even that, and you can only take on certain portions at certain hours of certain days.

So I think the important thing is that you just keep putting one foot in front of the other and doing what you can on a daily basis and stepping back when you can't. But I think the fact that we have formed this group kind of holds us accountable to continue to do something. 

Katie: Yeah. 

Jennifer: You know, it's not gonna look perfect every day. The way we run our meetings changes depending on, on the month, who shows up changes depending on the month. But I think it's, it's the act of continuing to have to do something and trying to impart that to our members, that we all have to do something even when you don't feel like it's actually working. You kind of don't have any choice but to do what you can. 

Katie: I mean, I think LaFonda and I can relate, right? Like in the leading Red Wine and Blue, you know, as an organization and this community of women that we have all across the country now, it is, I remember feeling the same way, like, how do, how do I lead in this moment?

You know? And I think that I, for me, it was thinking about, you know what like. Following the 2016 election, we didn't have this community, but we have it now. You know? And like that sort of is the answer. Two days after the election, we held that national Zoom call, I think we called it, like how to show up for each other, you know, in our communities, for ourselves, for our kids, even when it's hard.

The fact that we have that space to process it together, that's where we continue to draw strength. 

Jennifer: Right. That, that makes a, that makes a difference. And you know, I was thinking about the, the title of your podcast, which I love how not to lose your sh*t, but for me, I feel like you're going to lose your sh*t. And it's okay. It's like. It's like that adage about feel the fear and do it anyway. Yep. Lose your sh*t and do it anyway. 

LaFonda: Yes. And that's the point. That's, that's the point is giving people the permission to. Take the time to lose your sh*t. Giving people the space to process that, like some of this is not normal. Some of this is heartbreaking. Some of this is like you are going to lose your sh*t in some of these moments and like, here's the space to lose your sh*t together. Here's the space to cry about it together. Here's the space to process it together. Here's the space to grieve together, but also in this same space. Let's brainstorm together. Let's rally together. Let's hold each other up together so we can keep moving forward. 

That same community that's helping you grieve together is also going to be the community that helps you move forward. And we have to be able to give people, um, both of those things because those people that know how you felt in that moment where it all fell apart are gonna be the people that are gonna be able to remind you that like, Hey, remember when that was real sh*tty? Last year. That's the reason we are still doing this today, so let's keep moving forward. 

Jennifer: Right, right. We can, we can all do do hard things. We have all done harder things in this, in the past, personally and in your personal life. So we can all do hard things. We don't like to do them, but they are doable. We, and we have survived.

Katie: Can I ask you both a question. As a white woman talking to two black women, let's, I mean, let's just name it black women have been leading in this work for so long. I mean, both of you are in this work, you know, carrying, carrying more of this burden as we move forward. I mean, what, what do you wish that you were seeing more of from white women in this moment?

Jennifer: I wish that I was seeing more white people in general. Out there, because I see how people came together with the Jimmy Kimmel thing. And how they turned that around in one day, two days, maybe max. And I see journalists like Joy Reed taking off the air. Washington Post columnist, whose name is escaping me at the moment who recently left, um, people like Roland Martin, people like Don Lemon, people who have continually spoken out against this regime even before it became entrenched as a regime. And it makes me angry because as a society. 

We could turn this around quickly if everybody was committed to actually turning it around, and I don't, I have not seen that yet on a larger scale, I have gone to a few marches. Myself, myself, but right now I don't really plan on going to any others. I, I, you know, publicize them, but I don't wanna put this black body out there if there aren't enough white bodies who are really showing that this regime is a terrible thing. Um. So I did like, I do wish there wasn't so much capitulation. 

LaFonda: I think for me, I wish I was seeing the same allyship and advocacy and, um, accountability from white women that they expect when, when times are tough for black women that they expect from black women literally all the time. Um, I think. That when I see that, when it, when it gets heavy, when it gets tough, when it impacts white women directly, they want black women to step in.

They want black women to be, um, a part of the fight for the, the broader cause. But when it impacts black women specifically white women are oftentimes really, really silent, um, except for a small few. Um, and that is infuriating. Honestly. It, it fills me with a kind of rage that I can't even explain. Um, and I just, across the board, I, I think it's the same thing that Jennifer is saying.

There's a silence, there is a small protest when things impact black women or when black women say, Hey. Hey y'all. This is getting ready to happen. Um, listen to what is getting ready to happen. It has happened historically over and over and over again, and then when it happens, there's this outcry of how come black women aren't helping us? How come black women aren't marching? How come black women aren't, you know, putting themselves in the line of fire for us? And that is really, really infuriating. Honestly, 

Jennifer: It is. It is, can I share one story? Um, I was at a, a protest maybe a couple months ago, and, um, I was, you know, overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly white.

Um, and I was approached by a white woman who just, you know, tapped me on my shoulder and kind of asked, so, you know, where are the rest of your black brothers and sisters? And I responded to her, I need you to ask your white brothers and sisters, where are you? Because we have reasons why we're not out there.

But um, and, and it's kind of like LaFonda said, our, it's as though our absence is only noticed at sometimes. 

Because there are plenty of spaces that have long been overwhelmingly white and it is infuriating when. People don't ask, well, why is the boardroom overwhelmingly white? Why is the university overwhelmingly white?

But when there's a protest, it's like, oh my god where are the black people? Oh my god we need them.

Katie: Heard. Thank you both for that. I mean, that felt like a really powerful call to action for me. We gotta step up out there. White women. Listen to the wisdom here from Jennifer and Lafonda. Thank you. 

LaFonda: I do wanna quickly talk about that. I heard you used to teach yoga. I did teach yoga as well. Um, so can we talk about how you've used yoga as like a self-care space and how you're using yoga as yoga, sort of a balance of self care and politics and how are you doing any of that? 

Jennifer: So I taught yoga for about 11 years. I haven't taught it. I, I stopped it, um, quite a few years ago, maybe, maybe 10 years ago because I was balancing doing yoga. I was balancing raising my kids. And I also have, um, a fibromyalgia, which creates widespread pain. And so there was a point where just doing all of that was not helpful. 

So I needed, I needed to take some time off from teaching, you know, I'll throw a, throw a downward dog up. Every once in a while, I, I've started doing more restorative yoga. That was one of the modalities that, that I taught.

And I do enjoy restorative yoga because I, I recognize that there is this need to just relax my, relax my body. Um, I'll do a little bit of, of meditation. Chanting is actually something that I've kind of picked up again, that I find kind of centers me a little bit. Mm-hmm. More, but I kind of take from a bunch of different, different modalities to try to keep myself, um. I, I was about to say, keep myself together, but I never actually feel like I'm actually together. There's no such thing. I'm not gonna lie and say that

Katie: This is why I love you, 

Jennifer: But, but I, but I think definitely it's important to be conscious of this. Yeah. Being, yeah. Because this is all we have to get through this planet on, you know, I do wanna be around and see what my. Kids do I wanna be around and travel with my husband? And that's where I've kind of had to play around with figuring out, okay, how much, how much of my life do I want Donald Trump to take from me?

Because I feel like he's already taken years. Literally off my life. I, I think living through COVID has taken years off of all of our lives. I think the stress of him has taken years off of our lives. I've had to decide. I just, I just turned 55 and was like, I don't want the second half of my life to be fighting all of the time.

But at the same time, I have to do something, but I can't let it totally devour me. In order to keep it from totally devouring me, I have to do other things like spend time with friends and um, you know, do the little bit I can through hope and the heights and, you know, I think you always have to continue to, to try to grow.

LaFonda: I mean, I saw, I see this meme floating around. It's like, what is your favorite yoga pose and why is it Shavasana? And I think that that's fair. There's a lady here in Dallas. I'm in, I'm in Dallas, and there's a lady here in Dallas that does like a floating sound bath, so it's like a rooftop pool on top of a hotel, on floaties.

And then she does. The sound bath things. I haven't done it, but it is on my list of things to do, so.

Katie: That sounds incredible. You gotta report back on that one. 

Jennifer: Yes, I've, I've done sound baths with, uh, a couple people here, but I can imagine just adding the floating element, 

LaFonda: I'm afraid to fall asleep and fall in, but also I'm willing to take the chance.

Katie: You all are both like varsity level wellness with these sound masks, but I do, I do wanna hear about it. I do want the debrief. Um, Jennifer, thank you for that wisdom. I think of just like how you are blending all of this in together and like, you know, just, and making it part of real life, you know.

Hope in the Heights has become integrated into your life, it seems like, in a really beautiful way. While you also balance, you know, everything else. And that's just what we're all trying to figure out imperfectly, right day to day. And you know, I just love how this is showing up in both of our lives and that we live in the same community together.

You know, the fact that I walked into our school board candidate forum last night, 'cause we got a lot of good candidates here in Shaker and you know, I, I kind of ran out of my house, you know, with my, my husband home dealing with dinner with the kids and, you know, showed up and I didn't know how many people would be there, who would be there, whatever.

And there was Jennifer. Just sitting right there. 

Jennifer: There I was. 

Katie: I think I shocked you when I was, I like. Sat down right next to you. You're like, what? 

Jennifer: You kind of ran up on me. 

Katie: I just love that like we have these ways of, we've exercised together, we have cried together, we have celebrated together, and we now we sit together and we, and we, and we find our way, you know, in this community and, and being able to, um.

Be in this work and be in this life exactly in this community together is, um, it makes my life richer. So thank you for all you're doing and yeah. That's so cool to have you here. 

Jennifer: Thank you. I loved being here. 

Katie: Thanks to everyone for listening today. Before we go, we wanna leave you with our self-care tip of the week. This one is from one of our amazing North Carolina organizers, Tori. So this is it. 

When annoying things happen, just yell, “plot twist”, and adapt accordingly, and keep it rolling. You literally just have to laugh at the insanity of life. 

I mean, God bless Tori. 

LaFonda: I'm definitely taking that one. 

Katie: Plot twist. 

LaFonda: Plot twist.

Katie: I could just, my kids scream to think I'm so crazy, like rolling in the car and just yelling it out. But you know what, I think they might, they might pick it up too. 

LaFonda: I feel like that one could catch on real quick. 

Katie: Yes. Let's make it happen. Okay. So this podcast and all the work we do at Red Wine and Blue is about building community.

If this show is helping you lose your sh*t a little bit less, we'd love your help. If you can take a minute to hit that subscribe button and leave us a rating and review, that'll help us reach even more women and continue to grow this amazing community. Thanks, and we'll see you next week.