Media Still Matters (with Jessica Yellin)

In 2018, Jessica Yellin founded News Not Noise. She’d spent 17 years working in TV news (including as CNN’s Chief White House correspondent) and through those years, she learned that traditional news media is really good at generating anxiety and ratings. What it isn’t so good at is helping people understand what’s really going on (at least, not without a daily panic attack). What we really needed was… well, the news without the noise.

Meanwhile, around that same time, Katie Paris was seeing similar shortcomings in politics itself. Pundits out of Washington, D.C. were trapped in the way things had “always been done,” while Katie was seeing suburban women across the country getting together to make real change in their communities — not just following marching orders from D.C.

When you think about it like that, of course it makes perfect sense that News Not Noise and Red Wine & Blue would collaborate!

The news media has long been under attack by the Trump administration. He’s explicitly called journalists “the enemy of the people,” verbally attacked reporters (especially women), and his latest ridiculous move is launching a new page on the actual White House website called “Media Offender of the Week.” 

We’re all for thoughtful media criticism, but this partisan and deeply unserious web page insulting “Democrats and Fake News Media” is… not that.

It’s why we’re so grateful to journalists like Jessica for bringing us political news in a way that helps us understand what actually matters and what’s a mere distraction. Without knowing what’s going on, after all, how can we make a plan to fix it? As the saying goes, “when you know better, you do better.”

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media! 

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Transcript

Episode 11: Media Still Matters (with Jessica Yellin)

Katie: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Katie Paris, the founder of Red Wine and Blue. 

LaFonda: And I'm LaFonda Cousin, a part-time yoga instructor, self-care advocate, and the chief people officer here at Red Wine and Blue. 

Katie: Okay, so LaFonda, today we are sharing my conversation with journalist Jessica Yellen. She worked in traditional media for years, including as CNN's Chief White House correspondent, but she was one of the first to move to digital media like podcasts and Substack. Red Wine and Blue is launching a partnership with her community News Not Noise. So I'm really excited to share this conversation. But before we get to that, how was your Thanksgiving, LaFonda? 

LaFonda: It was good. It was good. I got to spend time with family. I got to rest a little bit. Had some family here from Kansas City because the Chiefs played the Cowboys. We will not talk about the game. 

Katie: Okay, no problem.

LaFonda: It was a disaster. Anyway, there's that, but everyone was in town and we just had a, we had a great time, so it was good. How was yours?

Katie: It was so good to be with family. Just have some days where my kids could kind of do nothing. We had some cousins in town. We got to go cut down the Christmas tree out at a tree farm. So we did all the things you're supposed do. I'm feeling pretty good. We, we, we made the homemade Christmas tree decorations. These are, these are the traditions I love.

And I feel like I did a decent job tuning out the news because unlike Jessica Yellen, who does this amazing job of bringing the news to her audience without giving people a panic attack. Which is a pretty hard task these days. Right? 

LaFonda: Absolutely. 

Katie: But I, I will say that one piece of news that did get under my skin, dare I say, make me lose my shit a little bit, given especially, you know, the, the past that, you know, I, in, in my career, I helped start Media Matters, which does media criticism. And so, like, I'm always kind of keeping an eye out for those sort of like, you know, serious and nuanced and interesting media criticism stories.

Well, over the break has been a bit of news out of this White House that I would call maybe like… not nuanced. Maybe I would call it like more dumb, when it comes to media criticism? 

LaFonda: Absolutely stupid. Yes. 

Katie: I'm referring of course to– if you missed it, congratulations – but the White House, like as in the actual official WhiteHouse.gov website, at the behest of the President of the United States has launched a media bias website. It's, it's his “media offender of the week,” and this is where he is calling out, you know, all different mainstream news outlets basically for stories that he disagrees with, that he doesn't like because they are exposing the truth of him. 

And this, this website is just silly, you know, it's got “misleading,” “biased,” “exposed” across the top of it. I'm looking at it right now. And it's just, it's just a little place for him to have a tantrum about news outlets, reporters. I read somewhere that most of the reporters who's criticizing, of course, are female reporters. And it's just dumb, LaFonda. Like this is not real media criticism. 

LaFonda: Absolutely. Yes, yes.

Katie: But it's also troubling, ultimately. 

LaFonda: It's terrifying. I've said it before, I feel like we live in a Saturday Night Live skit, but this kind of thing is like we live in the Saturday Night Live skit that made it to the cutting room floor. Um, like this is some of the dumbest… I, I can't. this is some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen and it's on a government website. It is on the White House website. CBS News has the words “EXPOSED” stamped over the top of it. It's just insanity. 

And the fact that it has to go through several channels of, I don't know, adults, what we would consider in a normal world intelligent adults with grownup jobs, and it still made it. This is complete chaos.

Katie: I mean, listen, there's probably like a 22-year-old intern running this website. Like that's the scary part. 

LaFonda: Yes. 

Katie: You know, like who's been given the keys to the car? But yeah, I, I think that what is so troubling about it to me is that it is meant to just sow chaos and mistrust. I mean, this administration relies on us all just throwing up our hands and going, I have no idea who to trust.

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: “I don't know, what is truth anyway?”

LaFonda: Undermine journalism, undermine media, undermine reporting. 

Katie: The other thing I always think about is that I think sometimes it's easier, easier for us to say, “okay, the media, that's an issue that has maybe, you know, nothing directly having to do with my life. How the news is covered… I can turn this on, turn this off, change the channel.” 

But the media impacts every single issue. You know, if I care about my kids being able to have access to a good education, to like good healthcare, et cetera, like yeah, the way the media covers these issues actually does matter. And so I think it's important that we remember that these issues are ultimately personal for us. 

LaFonda: Yeah. I mean, I also think about how it might impact the future, right? Like if I feel like there's an attack on media right now, how many kids are interested in journalism who aren't gonna go into that field because it feels like, does media really matter right now? Is it too dangerous right now? Does it even make sense to do that right now? And who aren't going to actually study the art of media. Who aren't going to get. education in journalism because it feels so chaotic and it feels like a joke right now, right? Like if I feel like I'm going to the White House website and media and journalism feel like a joke, why would I go in and and study journalism? When it's actually a really important field of study. 

Katie: Yeah. Journalism is the pursuit of truth. 

LaFonda: It's the pursuit of truth, right? And so right now it's being made into a joke. And if people, if kids feel like “I'm not gonna go, why would I go do that?” Then the future of journalism is at stake and that's a really, really big problem. 

Katie: I mean, we've already seen it gutted.

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: You know, in so many local markets there, you know, there's, there's news deserts today where people live in places where there is absolutely no local coverage. And it's really undermining to people participating in their communities and civic life and our democracy at those local levels. So like this is a big deal.

You know, I, I do think maybe a 22-year-old intern is assigned to running this website. But it is part of the bigger project. Absolutely. My hope on this kind of thing is that it actually can backfire. Like it just, it is so silly and over the top. Yeah. And just doesn't look serious. 

LaFonda: Yeah.

Katie: You know what I mean? Like he's telling on himself. And so, especially in light of the fact that meanwhile we are seeing a lot of new independent media that is really rigorous in terms of their fact-checking, sharing their citations, inviting rigorous discussion and debate of various points of view… that we're seeing a real appetite for that.

You know, I mean, we are actually seeing so many of these independent news sites have huge audiences. I think it's really interesting that Jessica Yellen's News Not Noise model, for example, has found such an audience. And I think that's because people do want news sources that they can trust, that they recognize that this is, you know, a garbage approach. 

The president, you know, he is trying to just like, take a wrecking ball to all of these institutions. But in light of all of that, people, instead of saying, throwing up their hands and saying, you know, “Okay, we can't trust anything”... instead, they're actually, you know, doing their research and wanting to find sources that, that they can trust and that they're not just gonna allow this to pass. 

You know, just like the way our discourse is gonna go. Yeah. These new sources that are taking it upon themselves to be rigorous in their fact checking, to curate for us, sort of what is the news and separate it from the noise, I think is a huge service to our democracy right now.

So my hope is, is that all the silliness, all the dumbness does. Completely backfire and we can, this can be part of like how our democracy gets mm-hmm. Renewed that in seeking the actual news and being able to differentiate it from just the garbage, dumpster, fire, chaos, noise of websites like this that we can, I don't know, maybe find our way to a healthier information ecosystem, but I think it's gonna look something different than we've ever seen before. 

Alright, we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back we'll have my conversation with Jessica Yellen from News Not Noise.

LaFonda: It’s a little bit different than our usual interviews, since it was actually Jessica interviewing you about the launch of our partnership with her and News Not Noise, but it’s still really interesting and I’m excited to share it with our followers.

BREAK

Jessica: Katie Paris. I am so glad we are finally sitting down to have this conversation. Um, first of all, hi. How was your Thanksgiving?

Katie: Hi. I mean, kind of the best, you know? The kiddos around the holidays wrapped up the weekend by cutting down that Christmas tree decorating. We're good to go. 

Jessica: It's such a nice time of year. I am very excited to be back at work talking to you because we first, for anybody who doesn't know, Katie runs an organization called Red Wine and Blue, and among the many things they do, they enable people to gather for in real life community groups where they live, to bond over what's happening in the world, talk about the big issues, and ideally take action and have fun together.

Katie was one of the early people to say, “we can do all the things, but there's too much happening online. We need to be in person.” And um, so I wanna talk to you a little bit about that, how you came to form RWB and how News Not Noise plans to partner with you all going forward. Would you tell our audience a little bit about just like, what made you start Red Wine and Blue?

Katie: Okay, so Jessica, I used to be a DC person. I know that you, you put in your time in the beltway, as they say as well. And you know, I've worked in politics for over 20 years now, and several years ago – it was actually following the 2018 midterm elections – I saw all these women, all across the country, who were becoming involved in their communities in a new way that they'd never done before.

They got involved in those midterm elections, they were meeting their neighbors, they were getting together in each other's living rooms, and they were making a huge difference in local elections, national elections, and just showing up for their community. And they were doing it in a way that was so different than I'd ever heard community action, civic action, political engagement really discussed out of DC. In DC there's a lot of conversations of like, “how do we influence what's going on out there? Can we find some trusted third party messengers? Or who can we find to be, you know, in our TV ad to have an influence?” 

These women were just taking it into their own hands to influence their community. And they were fighting a feeling of aloneness, helplessness by showing up for each other. And so I was so inspired by these women who are becoming involved for the first time, and I was thinking, “You know what? The key to fixing our politics, to protecting our democracy, dare I say, I don't think the answers are in DC. I think that they are in our local communities.” 

Now, of course, in the meantime, I had moved from Washington to suburban Ohio, so I was witnessing this up close. And so everything that I had been a part of Jessica, it's like it went into black and white and that everything I was seeing out across America, near where I live, but learning about in other places too… it just was in hyper color. And that's what I became inspired by and I thought, we need more of this. We need vehicles and support for people who want to get together where they live to make it.

Because everybody says, “I wanna do something. Everything's chaotic. How do I, you know, there's so much noise, right? But like, what do I do? What do I do about it? And I don't wanna do it alone.” And so I saw these women who were kind of figuring that out and I thought, “What if they were the model? Instead of DC handing down marching orders for what should be done? What if we empowered people in their own communities to get together and have an impact?” 

Jessica: It's so cool because that so parallels the origin story of News Not Noise, which was… it started right before the 2018 midterms, when I was preparing people for that vote. And it was overwhelmingly about reaching out to women who felt left out of the political conversation, like cared so much about these issues, but hated the way we talk about it. 

Katie: Yes.

Jessica: So at the time I was, I'd been working in the news for, I guess 17 years at that point, and I had this intuition, this experience that when I was out covering campaigns especially, I would interview swing voters who were often women, and they had a million questions about the news. Like the way we were telling the news didn't speak to them. They cared a lot, but they're like, “I just don't care what one candidate is yelling at the other. I wanna know who's gonna make my healthcare cost go up. Who's gonna provide coverage for, you know, childcare?” Like they wanted it told differently. And they couldn't take the rage and negativity, the yelling on the panels, the endless anger. And they're like, “it just leaves me feeling so bad, panicked, and anxious, and confused that I don't engage.”

On the other hand, I go home back to DC and say, you know, “Can we tell the news differently for this audience?:” And I, I couldn't get anybody to hear it, right? To buy in. And so I couldn't find a foothold to do it differently. When I left, I had this idea that there's gotta be another way to tell information that leaves you feeling okay and informed. And what's just the right venue to do it? 

And for a while I struggled with, where should I do it? How should I do it? And some of my friends were like, “Just put your face on Instagram or on your phone and start talking.” And I was sitting at lunch with a friend of mine who had asked me why something's happening in Congress and I explained it and she's like “That! That. You just explained to me in two minutes the thing I totally don't get forever. Say that to your phone.” And I decided to do it on Instagram because at the time there was no news on Instagram. It was a very friendly environment, like there wasn't the toxicity of some other platforms, and it was female focused, and I really thought the audience would be largely female. 

It's so sort of serendipitous that we connected when we did. So just to ground this, how does Red Wine and Blue do it and what is Trouble Nation and how do you help people make groups?

Katie: Yeah, so Red Wine and Blue started in my home state of Ohio and really just kind of caught on in the last several years online. And where we are today is that we have over half a million diverse suburban women as a part of this network from all over the country. And we have over 800 local groups that are in all 50 states. That's a newer program. So that's all grown really fast in just the last couple of years. 

And in many of these places we have women who are on the ground as year round organizers, supporting women on the ground in these local groups to have an impact where they live to. I mean, Jessica, I think we held over 4,000 events this year, you know, through these local groups and through our organizers. Because we recognize that sure change does happen online, but also in person, and we have so much potential to influence what is happening locally. I mean, there are just massive needs on the ground right now, and people are really wanting to show up for each other.

You know, mutual aid is something that we are seeing happen in these communities where people are getting together, where maybe school lunches are being cut. “Well, what are we gonna do about kids who are gonna be going without lunch?” And so we see these community groups getting together to tackle these very real concrete problems. 

And so we are there to empower women to not just see these problems, but to connect with others who are like-valued and to seek solutions together. Because it can just feel, it can feel so disempowering, right? To just see these problems and to feel helpless and like “I'm just gonna throw up my arms. It's too overwhelming,” right? But that's not what people actually want to do. They do want to do something, but they need a little support. 

So Red Wine and Blue is about coming in and providing that infrastructure. We provide toolkits, we provide leadership training. We provide ways for other women who are leading groups to connect with leaders of other groups within their own state or maybe across the country who are facing something similar and so that they can, they can learn from them. 

Jessica: You know, a lot of what you said is, I mean, there's so much there and what you've built is exceptional. A lot of the language I'm hearing is, you know, “you wanna lead something, you wanna organize something, have all these events.” It could sound sort of intimidating to somebody who is not a political person. 

So I just want to unpack this for a minute and say, my understanding from what we've discussed, and the reason I'm so drawn to this is there's so many people in my audience, for example, who aren't politically engaged. They're not organizers, they don't wanna totally run anything. They just are very desirous of an opportunity to connect with other people in their community who are similarly concerned about the state of the world, who also care about what's happening, who are bothered by some of the violations of rule of law we see. And want the communal experience. The shared experience of seeing that there are others around them who have these concerns and they want a space to talk about it. 

And they also wanna meet with people who might not have a hundred percent of their same views, like “we both care, we have different politics on some topics, but we also agree on a lot of big things and how do we talk together?” So one of the reasons I find your work so interesting is because what you've done is created a way for folks who aren't super political or don't have natural leadership experience to just like, come in and see how this platform works and actually like start a group. It's almost like book club.

Katie: One hundred percent.

Jessica: Can you talk a little bit in more less like political abstract terms but more like as a human being whose concerned about my community? What is it that you're trying to provide those people? 

Katie: Yeah. So this is a serious come as you are situation. I mean, this is exactly who we need involved are the people who have probably felt like, “oh, I dunno if this is for me. You know, I'm, I'm, this is all a little bit intimidating.” Because Jessica, that's most people, you know? I think that so often a lot of the institutions, traditional organizations, what has been offered out there… it has kind of given an intimidating vibe, you know? Or like that you have to know a certain amount or have been involved for a certain amount of time to be accepted in those spaces. True or not, I think that's often how it can feel. 

And literally on Red Wine and Blue's website, you go there, redwine.blue, the first thing you're gonna see is it's gonna say “Not political? No problem. In fact, that's perfect.” I also don't wanna undersell how incredibly important community is right now, because people are in the midst of, of the chaos.

Jessica: Totally. We are starting this partnership together, and I'm gonna share a lot of information with folks in my audience to explain to you what that really means. I heard what you all were saying. You were telling me that you want to find ways to get together. You wanna find ways to meet people in your community that you don't necessarily agree with, but want to be able to converse with. And whenever I've come to town and had small group meetings with News Not Noisers, you're like, “Do more of this.” So I can't personally organize groups everywhere, and that's exactly what Katie and RWB do. 

Katie: I just am really excited to partner with you on this because I do think our audiences have so much in common. Like there's this… people come to News Not Noise – I mean, I'm a paid subscriber and what I love about it is that is you do such a great job of separating the news from the noise. I do want to be able to get information and feel informed about the world without having a panic attack. 

Jessica: Oh, you got all the keywords.

Katie: Haha. I mean, you know, but like when I meet other people who feel that way too, there's just, there's like a buzziness of that connection, you know? And it's like, “oh, I wanna talk to you more. Like we are looking at the world with our head kind of tilted in the same direction.” And so, you know, like, and maybe we don't have it all figured out yet, but like, something here feels important. 

Always the first step of, you know, these groups could… I mean, I've seen them do, you know, so, so many things in terms of being of service to their community. Holding school board member forums, holding civic salons on Sundays, you know, where people get together and share a meal and learn about some aspect of local government or an issue going on. It can go so many different directions, but the fundamental key foundation of all of it is that community building aspect. 

And I think that's what people really love about our approach too. Because politics, Jessica, you may, may not know, it's like not, not got a very good brand these days. Or maybe really any days. You know, like when, when, when people are asked to respond – Pew Research actually did a study on this a couple of years ago, I don't know if you saw it, when people were asked to name a word or phrase that they associate with politics, only 2% of people used a positive word or phrase. 

Jessica: It’s so bad, right? And it's no wonder then that people feel triggered by the news. Our assumption is that you feel triggered by the news because the news is scary. But my contention is it's deliberately crafted to, I say, compete for your anxiety to trigger a fear and panic response. Because like any industry that's ripe for disruption, it has one thesis on how to succeed. And the thesis is “conflict wins eyeballs.”

And I think conflict is one way to win eyeballs. But empathy is another. And empathy is more calming. Empathy creates community. And my whole thing was like, can I explain what we're talking about, make complicated ideas simple and trigger an empathy response so people care, feel safe and engaged? 

Katie: Kind of what Red Wine and Blue is trying to do here in a way is like take the “ick” out of politics in a way. Like politics to us is like, yes, there's like people yelling at each other on cable news. Like, we're not interested in that. We're interested in being in community with one another and how we wanna move in our communities together. 

Jessica: So what are some of the, like your favorite things that you've seen come of these groups? And would you explain to us a little bit for folks who aren't gonna do like, a whole civics lesson. What else could they do in a group? And is it all already your friends or is it, does it include people you might not know in these groups? 

Katie: So that's totally up to you. If you want it to be, if you wanna start it, you know, with one or two of your friends who are interested in doing this too, and just start small and maybe invite the people that you know and have them invite the people that they know? Great. So it can be what you want it to be, but we've got a ton of ideas and tons of people that you can talk to, to pick their brains about what worked best for them too.  

Jessica: That's so cool. You make it easy to do. It's like, you give the recipes so we can make the meal, make the meeting. You've said a bunch of times that it's women and suburban women, but um, are men welcome? And what if you don't live in suburbia?

Katie: Yeah, so look, that's where we started. I'm a suburban mom. That's how we got it started. But yeah, by now, the men are wanting to get in on the action, I'm not gonna lie. And um, so the guys can come too, the husbands, the partners, the friends. But again, that's kind of up to the group leaders too. Like if you wanna have a women's group, you can do that. If you wanna have a couple's group, you can do that. But yes, the men can come along to the party too. 

Oh, oh. And, and suburban. By this point, we do also have groups that are in urban areas. Lots of groups in rural areas too. I mean, we actually are increasingly seeing that for a lot of folks who live outside of metropolitan areas, there's like an even greater hunger to connect with others who are sharing their concerns because that can sometimes feel, you know, the most lonely of all. 

But the one thing, one thing I have learned for sure from doing this is that no matter where you live, you are not actually alone. And we would love to help prove that for anyone. 

Jessica: I love that. Wine is not required? 

Katie: Wine is not required. Sober people around wine a hundred percent, you know, you can put, you can put Spindrift in that, in that wine glass, whatever you wanna bring. It's just meant to be like… oh, there's so many boring names of groups, Jessica, you know? Like, you know, “Women of America for America.” I wanted a patriotic name, I wanted a name that indicated that we're gonna have a little fun here too, you know? Like, we are doing serious work, these are serious times, but we cannot take ourselves too seriously.

Jessica: And, you know, I am reminded of, every time I interview an expert on authoritarianism, they always, you know, you have this heavy, heavy, heavy conversation, and then you say, “what can be done?” And they say, the greatest forms of resistance are gathering in your community in person for in-person connection. And connecting to joy and fun. Because that is what authoritarian regimes try to strip from you. And the more you foster that soil and tend to that soil, the harder it will be for them to rip up the roots of our democracy. 

Katie: So true. I mean, joy is strategic. Community and connection are strategic. And I have to say, Jessica, when I first was starting Red Wine and Blue, I had some people who were like, I don't know, maybe more of the DC types who would kind of… who were looking at like what I named the group, what we were doing, and there was a little bit of like, “Is she serious? Can this be taken seriously?” 

But now you hear people get it. These experts, like the ones that you're citing, talking about how actually, like this is how we build resilient movements, you know, it is through coming together in living rooms and no matter what's in that wine glass, what is important is the strength of that connection. And so I just, it's really cool to actually hear. I've heard some of the interviews that you did, like with Elaine Applebaum, I know you guys talked about that. And I was just like, “wow, this is important.” 

Jessica: Yeah, it is. Do you have a group of your own, do you go to a group?

Katie: I do, it has over 400 members. It's called Hope in the Heights. 

Jessica: Whoa. 

Katie: And yeah, and I didn't start it. It was started by several women I go to the gym with. 

Jessica: Nice.

Katie: Which, yeah, I mean, which is like a real source of community for me. And so it feels like this natural extension, like, you know, we work out together, we get together sometimes at each other's houses or at the local library and talk about what's going on in our community. And it's strengthened our friendships. I mean, it's, you know, maybe even made our workouts a little bit better, knowing each other a little better in that way too. 

Jessica: I do find also having these regular events with a group of people, you know, kind of gives structure to your year in a way, where it feels like everything is happening so fast. And when you have these ongoing check-ins, it's really a moment to sort of assess where we are, where we've been, and just kind of be present in what's changing for a while. It's just there's so many positive things to gathering.  

Katie: Yeah, and I just wanna say to folks like, you can do this. And if you're not ready or you wanna learn a little bit more before dipping your toe into leading a group, like great, find one in your local community that already exists or nearby, and check it out. We are all about community building and we'd love to help you do that where you live too. 

Jessica: Katie, thank you so much for thinking of doing this and for like bringing in the News Not Noise community and for the, you know, incredible thoughtfulness you bring to this work. 

Katie: Oh, likewise. This is gonna be fun.