Scream In Your Car, Resist & Repeat (with Nikki Kidd and Sarah Slackert)

This week on the pod, we interviewed two moms in Chicago who were arrested last year for protesting outside of an ICE facility. Nikki and Sarah said that they wanted to draw attention to what’s happening in this country by using their privilege as white suburban moms — moms not so different from Renee Good in Minneapolis.

Not everyone has to go out and get arrested to stand up for immigrants in their community. There are so many ways to get involved, from helping your school with a food drive to going to a local meeting to simply having a conversation with the people in your life.

But before we can take meaningful action, we have to feel all the feelings. Especially after Renee’s tragic murder. So cry, hug a loved one, or scream in your car. And then it’s time to do something about it

Nikki and Sarah's story was already inspiring — suburban moms who were stepping up to defend their neighbors and risk their own safety — but with last week’s news, our conversation with them was more important than ever. We hope you get as much out of it as we did.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

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Transcript

HTNLYS Episode 17 - “Scream In Your Car, Resist & Repeat (with Nikki Kidd and Sarah Slackert)

Katie: Hi everyone. Welcome to How To Not Lose Your Shit. I'm Katie Paris. I'm the founder of Red Wine and Blue.

LaFonda: And I'm LaFonda Cousin, a part-time yoga instructor, self-care advocate, and the Chief People Officer here at Red Wine and Blue. 

Katie: Last week, y'all, we were all devastated, we continue to be, by the murder of Renee Good in Minneapolis by a member of ICE. We had already planned to speak today to two moms in Chicago, Nikki and Sarah, who had been arrested last November while protesting ICE. Their story was already inspiring. Suburban moms who were stepping up to defend their neighbors, risking their own safety. But with last week's news, our conversation with Nikki and Sarah, which is more timely, it's more important than ever.

LaFonda. How are you feeling? Did our conversation with Nikki and Sarah help you lose your shit just a little bit less? 

LaFonda: Um, I don't know. Uh, I think the answer to that is probably no, but it still is inspiring to see people taking action and doing things in their community. I don't think after the events of last week and the continued… I think “abuse of power” is the only way to say it, “abuse of like power you shouldn't have” of ICE. I don't think that anything can help me not lose my shit.

Katie: Permission to lose your shit this week. 

LaFonda: I think we are all going to continue to lose our shit a little bit over this story and just ICE in general right now. And it feels like, just like it's just the power of social media and the algorithms, it just feels like things just keep popping up.

And so I’m intentionally trying to not take in as much. I'm being really conscious about what news I'm taking in. But yeah, the, the Renee Nicole Good story is devastating. Um, you know, every video angle that I get, it's almost… “comical” feels like the wrong word, but it's almost comical that people can see something other than what is actually happening right now. And at this point I feel like if you're seeing something different, it's because you wanna.

And so that's why I am feeling like I'm not able to not lose my shit. But having the work of Red Wine and Blue and having people doing work like Nikki and Sarah, it's, it's helping feel like there are people still doing the right thing. And I think that does help not lose our shit a little bit. 

Katie: I am leaning into the work right now. It is my coping mechanism. Holding my kids a little bit tighter for sure. And leaning into the opportunity that we have to help galvanize, organize more and more women to be a part of pushing back on this. This is, this can't be America. This isn't, this ain't it, y'all. 

And so this week, I think La Fonda's got some great advice in terms of taking those breaks from social media. Taking breaks, taking breaks, but also just we're, we're not here to tell you this week to not lose your shit. But we are here to hopefully help you think about ways to channel it in a way that can help you move through it so that you can get into deeper connection with the people that you know to work towards your values, which are American values. And we cannot let these attempts to scare us win the day. When fear wins, we lose. 

And I also just want, gosh, you know, I'm really reminded right now that yeah, they're trying to scare us, but there's a lot of us, I think that they are scared. There was a Fox News headline over the weekend talking about how, “oh, these scary gangs of wine moms,” you know – 

LaFonda: Insane.

Katie: I know, those chaotic wine moms! Oh, you know, we're coming! So we've got some of those very scary – and by that I mean not so scary at all – wine moms joining us this week. 

Let's bring on Nikki and Sarah, two suburban moms who were arrested in November for protesting outside of an ICE detention center in Chicago, Nikki and Sarah. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Nikki: Thanks for having us. 

Sarah: Thank you so much for having us. 

Katie: Oh, it's really good to see your faces. You know, sometimes we meet people this way. We read about you online in the news, and you were two moms that I just LaFonda and I knew that we needed to meet, so we're really glad to get to see you face to face.

Sarah: I love connecting like this also. Very helpful. 

Katie: Yeah, I mean, just knowing there's so many of us out there and that we have each other's back, it matters a lot. 

So, first of all, we need to start out by acknowledging that we are only a few days out from the murder of Renee Good in Minneapolis by an ICE agent. How are you both doing? Sarah, I know you're actually from Minneapolis. It must really just feel close to home. 

Sarah: Yeah, I would say the news that day was pretty shattering emotionally. You know, we had just kind of gotten through all the holidays, getting kids back to school. I know for us, we were kind of mentally shifting back into like, what are we doing next with organizing. And that just felt like a really hard, like force back into chaos, just right back into like the extreme deep end immediately. 

So it was pretty jarring and really upsetting, really, really upsetting. Cause the, I mean, when I saw the video, well, I almost threw up after watching the video. Because it looked like what we have been doing for the last two months. So it was, it was pretty hard to see. And talking with my friends and family there, just holding space for everybody to just be upset. Like, it's okay. Like we need to be upset and we need to feel it. We gotta get that rage out. I liked screaming in my car, that was super helpful for me. 

Katie: Yep. Good.

Sarah: Because we know now, like we can't react and come back at the ICE agents or whoever it is with that rage. Cause now they're gonna kill us. So we have to feel it, work through it, and then figure out very smart ways to be strategic about making a difference. 

Katie: Thank you for saying that, Sarah. You know, I think it's a, if we just try to sort of push these feelings down, pretend we're not having them, like that energy's gonna go somewhere and probably it's not gonna be as productive as it could be, right? We have practice at this as moms. There's a lot of things that can upset us.

Sarah: I was just thinking, if anybody can do what I just said, I was like, it is mothers.

LaFonda: Yeah. As moms, we've screamed in a car plenty of times. In a closet, in a car, into the void. Yes. 

Katie: Yeah. How about you, Nikki? How are you doing? How are you processing this?

Nikki: Because I am, you know, chronically online trying to manage the social media channels, I saw right away as soon as everything broke. And at first I was just stunned. And you know, like Sarah said, we do this, we drive around our neighborhoods looking out for our neighbors, you know, telling people who might be approached by ICE that ICE is in the area. That, you know, folks are around. We, you know, we want to make sure that we're putting ourselves out there to help protect the people who are most impacted. 

And so, you know, at first I was just in complete shock. At the same time, I think what made it hardest was that it wasn't unpredictable. It was something that we kind of all expected after seeing so many things happen here in Chicago. You know, we saw Miramar Martinez actually be shot five times and somehow luckily survive, on a street that I drive through every week taking my daughter to gymnastics. So we had seen the precursors and we had kind of held our breaths in a way as to whether or not that was going to happen here.

And so, you know, it was, it was a shock that it had actually happened. But also, you know, just this horrible empathetic weight on us of… we know exactly how this happened and why this happened, because we had seen everything leading up to it here in Chicago and fully anticipated that this was what was gonna happen next. It was just a matter of time. 

Katie: Really not hard to put yourself in Renee Good’s shoes. Yeah. I've, I've had that feeling too, that that could have been me. And that is a lot, a lot to process. So keep screaming in those cars. 

I do want to rewind just a little bit to the story about your arrest back in November. I would love to hear about your mom's group, which is called Resist and Repeat, and what happened on the day you were arrested. But how did this group come together and what happened on that day? 

Sarah: The idea came to me at, at a 3:00 AM insomnia meeting with myself, perimenopausal insomnia. 

Katie: I feel you, girl.

Sarah: I had this, I, you know, I was like... there has to be something especially for moms that is impactful. I just started asking people like, “How would you do this idea? How would you do it safely?” And then I just kept meeting a lot of people and they would answer my questions.

Katie: Wait, so wait, wait, wait. So you're saying that the 3:00 AM insomnia, thank you perimenopause, gave you the idea, this vision essentially of white suburban moms putting your bodies in the way of ICE in a very public way. 

Sarah: Yeah. 

Katie: Okay. Alright. Got it. And then you start asking for help for people who've done these kinds of things before and they're willingly giving you the knowledge you need to figure it out.

Sarah: Yeah. I'm like an intensely curious person, so I just, I ask a lot of questions 'cause I can learn it from somebody who's done it before. I am allergic to recreating the wheel.

LaFonda: Love that. 

Sarah: So I met this woman who was like, I can do like the nonviolent civil disobedience like training for you guys if you need it. Just like, let's have like a meeting at your house. And I have a lot of friends that I've met, like on the blacktop at school pickup.

Katie: Totally. Monday night you've got basketball drop off, Tuesday night you've got PTO meeting, and Wednesday you have nonviolent resistance training in your living room.

Sarah: Yeah. I put out the call, I was like, is anybody remotely interested in this? And since I kind of have a rapport already with a good amount of people, they were like, yeah. And then that first initial idea meeting we had like 15 people. And I will say, I didn't even know Nikki before she came to that. I had never met – well, we did meet, we figured it out. 

Katie: But you weren't really friends before that. 

Nikki: No. We hadn’t been in person for a while. 

Katie: Oh I love that. Shared values and that need to, need to do something brings women together and so many best friendships are formed. I'm telling you, if you're feeling lonely out there, ladies, and you feel like you need some friendship, act out on your values, you're gonna find your people. 

Sarah: Yes, absolutely. 

Nikki: It was Sarah's idea, but we all wanted to do something and we were all hungry for something to help bring awareness about what was happening. And so collectively, we were all just like, yes, we're doing this. We're, we're, we're taking this step.

And you know, even the people who weren't able to, for, you know, myriad reasons actually be the ones on the concrete, on the asphalt. But everyone was so supportive of this… what is happening is absolutely wrong and can't be tolerated and can't be accepted. And so we will do whatever we can to help make something big enough that people will pay attention and people will move forward and do and do something.

Sarah: Yes. So we. We were in a free speech zone, which they kept the protesters in, and we had the plan that at a certain time, a certain chant would happen. And then we, I mean, “jumped” but like, swung our legs over the barricades. And we made a circle in the street and held hands and sat down. We couldn't really hear the chanting in the crowd that well, so somebody in our circle started leading some chants.

And they immediately started picking up people to start arresting them. Like, almost like 10 seconds probably, they picked up the first woman. And so they eventually went around and put us all in zip ties. Um, we were held for several hours. I think we were all home by like 4:00 or 5:00 PM that evening.

We knew even our whole jail experience was very different. Very different. Like we were treated almost deferentially by some of the younger guys. I feel like they were like, “These are like our moms. Like this is weird.” We were like, this is exactly why we're fucking doing this because this is absurd. It's absurd the treatment that we got. And the way that they were like, “oh, we're gonna get you guys out so we have room for real criminals.” And we were like, you know, who else isn't that a real criminal? 

Katie: Yeah, even in prison, like you saw evidence of your privilege in terms of how you were treated.  

LaFonda: That actually brings us to a question that, you know, I had you specifically wanted to bring a group of white suburban moms together to protest ICE, and you wanted to use that privilege in that voice for good. So can you tell us why that was important to you? 

Sarah: So having been to the protest several times at the Broadview facility, and bringing different mom friends every time I went – I even did some zooms to be like, “here's where you park and here's where you get, this is the gas mask you should get, and these are the goggles that are good.” 

I felt pretty strongly about not asking any women of color to put their bodies on the line because they have been forever. And we were helped along the way by a really incredible Black woman who really, really showed me how to use my power and be more confident in it. And also the logistical trainings in nonviolent civil disobedience. I really wanna credit her because we, I did not know what I was doing. I think from a safety perspective, 'cause we all were watching daily how dehumanized people of color, all people of color were being by the ICE agents specifically and the border patrol agents, and so I was not about to be asking any person of color to put their physical safety on the line.

I also was pretty positive that as white looking mothers, that they weren't gonna like rough us up or use their billy clubs or the pepper spray, although we were very prepared for that. We wanted to show that like, you don't have to be part of… you know, anybody can be an activist. It doesn't mean that you're a part of an extremist group. Like you can just be, you know, a concerned citizen. Anybody can kind of do it. 

We weren't like, “everybody go out and get arrested,” but we're like, “maybe you can do one more thing.” Have a conversation with somebody, maybe look at a website that you wanted to look at, maybe go to a meeting, help out your PTO, they’re probably doing extra food drives. Like do that like one more thing, because I think we all were super aligned on the fact that we should not all do the same thing. Everybody should do all the, we need all the things. We need all the things right now. 

Nikki: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think our, our main, you know, couple messages were, you know, the, the fact that everyone can do something. Not everyone can do everything. And so, yeah, you know, it was a matter of, you know, this group of women were to do this and to try to raise the awareness and spread the news in some ways. Because we knew, you know, similar to how the news of, you know, Renee's murder is exploding all over the country and internationally, you know, in that same way we know that, you know, other people had been shot and killed and impacted before, but it didn't make the news.

And so we knew that, you know, us taking a stand as white women, we hoped that that would get more attention and, and call people in and to really, you know, take the information that we, we've learned over the last several years and the fact that we need to take accountability for our privilege and to, to take that and use it in, in ways that we can.

And so we wanted to really just make sure that we were taking that step and showing people that it didn't need to be what we did, but that everybody could do something. And that's where we really have tried, you know, through our social media channel and through the interviews that we've had to say, you know, not everybody has to go and get arrested. That's not what we're saying. But if everyone does one more thing and then tomorrow, one more thing, that eventually that will help. 

We'll reach our spheres of influence, the people that we interact with on a daily basis, and we will really be able to move the needle because everyone else has been fighting for these things for forever, for decades, for, you know, so long. And if there are people who are just waking up and just figuring out that this is, you know, happening and that it is impacting all of us and can impact all of us, that they take that step and be like, “okay, you know, I might have been asleep or busy or not paying attention or in the throes of breastfeeding or whatever, but now I am here and I'm awake and I know that if we wanna have a future for our kids that doesn't look like this, that we all have to play a role and we all have to step up.” 

LaFonda: I appreciate the conscious choice of the visual impact of like white suburban moms doing it, so I, I appreciate, I definitely appreciate the work that you're doing because I do think that the visual impact helps people understand what is happening in a way that it doesn't when it happens to – I'm, I'm just gonna say, when it happens to us. So that visual impact is definitely important. 

Katie: I love everything you're, that you're doing for the symbolism, for drawing that concrete picture for people who need to see that sometimes clearly and concretely. And also you both said, and again and again, creating this invitation to anyone to get involved that, you know, everyone doesn't have to do exactly what we did. But sometimes you gotta get kind of loud and send those visuals so that it can break through. 

And then people can ask themselves, maybe they do say, “oh gosh, I could never do that.” I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe you all thought that once, maybe not so long ago. 

Sarah: Yeah, we've had, we had a lot of people that are like, “I'll support from behind the scenes. I just can't do it.” I'm like, that's fine. That's great. There's a role for everyone.

Katie: Yes. And that's so important too. We have to build as big of a tent as possible. We have to welcome people into this movement. 

Sarah: That is – oh, you're talking right to me. That's been really my focus lately because I, as I'm getting more involved and I'm seeing like local politics and other organizations that have been around, and I'm like, “oh, you don't support everything that everybody else is doing?” Like right now, I feel, is the time especially to get all under the tent.

Katie: And these moments where… we had Renee Good shot in the face one mile from where George Floyd called out for his mother. These are the inflection points where these stories do break through and people do ask themselves, “well what, what can I do?” And they do find that opportunity and it becomes a point for people who've never been activated before to move in that direction. 

Also, we see people who, for whatever reason, the filter media bubbles that we all exist in up to this point perhaps had not seen, because their vision can be so tunnel vision, because of how we're all existing within these polarized filter bubbles, had not come to understand or process the violent impacts of what this administration is doing to the American people. And this breaks through.

And I mean, we're seeing it, we're seeing it online even where people who perhaps, you know, voted for Donald Trump. And I know it's so hard not to feel anything but scorn and anger for folks who help bring in the people who are in power today. But we have to take these moments where people see that, you know, that it breaks through those bubbles and people see the violence and that this is not what they meant to sign up for. We can either say “you're not welcome here,” or we can say that you're welcome, and we've gotta have that big tent to hold onto our values as Americans and get through this era in our country. 

Sarah: Yeah. I have a lot of, I hold like a lot of compassion – again, not everybody should or can – but I particularly can hold a lot of compassion for those people who are really, like, “Ooh, that's not what he said he was gonna do,” and are just realizing he's been lying about everything. You know, over a decade ago, I had a life where I was a Republican for a while, so I, I feel like I can relate to that. Like, “oh, this isn't what I thought.” 

And then trying to come out of that is so scary. And then I think about the women who maybe are in a less populated area. Maybe it's not safe for them to say anything about their feelings to anybody. Especially their partner or husband. The people at school, because if your community is only 50 people, you don't wanna be outcast. And so I feel a real compassion, I guess, for the women, especially the women right now, who are really uncomfortable with it and unsure. And I feel like that demographic could really help get momentum going to get some, like real change happening. But I think it's hard. Extending grace to people right now is really needed because the polarizing and the black and white is not helping. 

LaFonda: If someone is listening now and they feel inspired by this story, and I'm sure they will, they'll and, and they want to take action to protect their community against ICE, what do you recommend? What would you, what would you tell someone right now? 

Sarah: I would say logistically, I would say find a friend, talk to them. Find another two friends, talk to them. See what is already happening out there and see if you wanna join up with that. Get the lay of the land. And then when you have these other creative ideas, you'll be able to network better to make it happen. 

Also, during my process of asking questions, I was like, “I'll just figure out and ask these questions, and I'm sure that I'm gonna find somebody who's already planning the same thing or a similar thing, and then we'll just join up with them.” I was positive every step of the way that I was gonna find that, and I didn't. So then we just did it. 

Katie: I have experienced the same thing, I'm just gonna tell you. Over and over, including with founding Red Wine and Blue five or six years ago, which is now, you know, over half a million women. But I was like, “I don't need to do this. I mean, I, I'll, I'll find something else going, I'll help out.” But then when I started talking to women, it was like, “No, we all need to get connected together.” 

And I think we make that assumption too, that like, “oh, I'm sure somebody smarter than me has already put this all together.” And you know, guess what? No one's coming to save us.

Nikki: I, and I think we were all able to use these skills that we've been building for, you know, various other things, right? Like, you know, we talk about being part of our PTOs, so like we have all of the organization and knowing how to delegate and make sure that everybody is covering everything for, you know, that PTO fundraiser. We applied that to, you know, making sure everything was organized and that we had the right contacts and we went to the right experts. 

And same thing with, you know, we had people who were lawyers that we connected to, and we were able to connect to the National Lawyers Guild to make sure that we understood what our rights were as, you know, people who were going to do an action of civil disobedience. And, you know, as part of that training that Sarah threw out there, you know, it was, here's the National Lawyer Guild, here's the person who's gonna teach us all of these like, logistical things that, you know, we wouldn't have known without talking to those experts. And so we understood leaning into those people who, you know, had that expertise and those skills and that knowledge, and making sure that we were bringing everybody in together to make it happen in the, you know, best way. But also, you know, hopefully by reducing the risk for the people who were participating. 

Go find those people and, you know, listen to them and, and take that information and tell them what you are capable of doing, whether that is behind the scenes, whether that's out front, whether that's people who aren't able to leave their houses because they have a newborn or they have a disability, or you know, for whatever reason. There are still things that people can do, you know, behind the scenes and, and from wherever they are. And so getting connected to those organizations that are already doing it and are looking for people to help them and have that knowledge and that expertise, again, you know, finding the experts and just being there to support them is also, you know, a really great way to show up for your community.

LaFonda: Well, I appreciate this conversation. Thank you so much for joining us, Sarah and Nikki, and thank you for everything that you're doing for standing up for your community and giving advice for how others can stand up for their community too. 

Sarah: Thank you for everything that you're doing. 

Nikki: Thank you for having us.