At The Breaking Point (with Malynda Hale)

Americans are at a breaking point. But that breaking point looks wildly different depending on who you ask.

For many of us who have been protesting and organizing against the Trump Administration since 2016, we’re at an emotional breaking point. How much suffering, how many innocent lives have to be lost, before this country turns back toward democracy?

For some who supported Trump (or at least didn’t care one way or the other), it’s a moral breaking point. Confronted with clear video evidence in Alex Pretti and Renee Good’s murders, seeds of doubt are growing in former MAGA faithfuls. Women in particular, regardless of political party, do not support ICE’s brutality.

And some lifelong activists, especially Black women, are at a breaking point too. After years of not being listened to, it’s hard to graciously welcome the “Johnny-come-lately”s whose minds were only changed when a white man was murdered.

That frustration is so understandable. But we can’t afford to turn people away — no matter how early or late they’ve joined the fight. That’s not to say that there shouldn’t be accountability! But as our pod guest Malynda Hale said to a woman who had posted on Threads that she was leaving MAGA, “Welcome, good for you, let’s get to work cause you have a lot to help fix.”

This week’s conversation between Malynda and LaFonda explores that tension between accountability and welcoming people to the cause. Malynda is also the Executive Director of The New Evangelicals, an organization that’s redefining what it means to be an evangelical Christian in America. Her chat with LaFonda goes deep on so many of these topics and more — we hope it helps you not lose your shit!

Speaking of redefining Christianity, we're holding a virtual event about Christian Nationalism on Thursday, January 29 at 7:30pm ET. You can learn more and RSVP here.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA

YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

Transcript

How To Not Lose Your Sh!t Episode 19

LaFonda: Hi everyone. Welcome to How to Not Lose Your Shit. I'm LaFonda Cousin, a part-time yoga instructor, self-care advocate, and the Chief People Officer here at Red Wine and Blue. 

Katie: And I'm Katie Paris, the founder of Red Wine and Blue. 

LaFonda: So the news out of Minneapolis has been so incredibly hard to watch. ICE murdered another American citizen just on Saturday. I don't know how anyone is not losing their shit right now. I am losing it over and over again. Saturday was really, really hard to watch. 

So it was really great to talk to Malynda Hale about how she's doing. She's a singer, an actress, an activist, and the executive director of the New Evangelicals. We had a really honest conversation about Minneapolis and race and religion and how we can talk to people who are finally shifting away from MAGA after what they saw happen this weekend in real time.

So, Katie, how are you feeling after this weekend? 

Katie: Well, first I wanna say, LaFonda, thank you for doing the interview solo with Malynda Hale. I was out and you know, so I just appreciate you covering the interview and it was, it was such a beautiful interview and I'm really glad actually that you all were able to have that conversation. That you were able to share with our listeners the conversation about ICE killing Alex Preti, a 37-year-old white man, an ICU nurse. And but to hear that conversation through the lens of two Black women who, you know, as Malynda said, you know, we've been saying for a while, “Listen to Black women.” 

We've been saying this for a while. We gotta get organized, y'all. This is, this is real in our country and we need to confront it. And I loved how she talked about, you know, listening to Black women, sometimes that can sound like an activist mantra or something. But what she said so specifically and is right, it's because Black women are uniquely positioned to provide actionable steps because y'all have been having to do that on behalf of your families and in your day-to-day lives, and obviously considering the history of this country, you know, forever. So I'm glad it was a conversation between you two and I'm grateful for that. 

You know, it was a tough weekend on me too. I just really identified with y'all's conversation and how you were carrying it. I really was struck by her, I mean, speaking of Black women, like, having great action steps, I'm not sure I've heard better, clearer advice from anyone than what Malynda gave in terms of… how in this moment do we welcome new people into our movement who are turning their backs on MAGA because of the reality of what they're seeing with their own eyes that ICE is doing, and then seeing the Trump administration just lie about it. She said how important it was to not shame them for being late, but also that accountability is important. 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: The words she used, like you asked her very specifically, like okay, sounds good. Um… how? Like, yes, that, but like, that's hard. And I love how she gave the example of someone on threads talking about how they left MAGA after this and that there were a lot of people sort of like dunking on them and how unhelpful that is. Because we have gotta have people defect and join the majority in order for us to get through this. And she said what she said to that person was, “good for you, now let's get to work because you got a lot to help fix.” 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: I found those words really helpful, that sort of affirmation and not a... “Okay, well go off into the wilderness and do your work and read 14 books and come talk to me.”

LaFonda: Yeah.

Katie: Like, “Alright, come on, you're on the train now. Let's do it.”

LaFonda: Yeah. I think the example is what, what helped me. I just had to really sit with that cause I am at that place where I am balancing the frustration with… I know we need as many people as possible, and I know we need those people who are finally seeing, I guess, the light and turning away from what I feel like I've always seen and we've always seen is like absolute— 

Katie: Darkness?

LaFonda: Destruction and chaos and darkness, yeah. We definitely need those people and I think that conversation with Malynda really helped me continue to balance those two things, that frustration that I know that it's okay to feel with you always saying we need as many people under the tent as possible. And we have to, in some ways, be welcoming of those people under the tent.

And it's what we do at Red Wine and Blue. We create that on-ramp. And so what I also appreciate in Malynda's approach is this, yes, let's welcome them, but also that accountability is not lost, right? Like we still have to have that conversation, but right now, let's bring you in to get the work started. But like, I'm not immediately gonna hand you How To Be An Anti-racist. You don't have to read that big book right now. I'm just, I'm gonna bring you in so we can start the work. 

Katie: And we got a lot of work. 

LaFonda: We got a lot of work. But the, but the accountability also has to happen. And I think that's what people need to hear, right? Like we do still need people as a part of this movement. And so there is a place to welcome the people who come late, but not without the accountability. And that's the part, that's the part of the conversation that I thought was really important for me, and I think it's probably really important for some of our listeners to hear, 

Katie: You know, I was just like saying amen to it as well as I listen because it is also not only the right thing to do, it is the strategic thing to do. Because these women who are coming into the movement right now – and look, we're seeing majorities of women, any way you slice it no matter what political party, you know, are not okay with what we are seeing right now. 

And so this is a critical moment for us to welcome these women in, but it's not just the right thing to do. We need them then talking to their networks and they're the best messengers. You and I can't have the conversations with their people. We can be over here saying, “Hey. Join the club. We're waiting for you.” But we cannot be their direct friend, that direct trusted relationship that we know is so important.

LaFonda: Alright, we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back we'll have my conversation with Malynda Hale.

BREAK

LaFonda Cousin: So today I am grateful to be joined by Malynda Hale. She's so many things - a singer, an actress, a mom, an activist, the host of the We Need To Talk podcast, and the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Malynda, thank you so much for coming on the pod today. 

Malynda Hale: Of course. Thanks for having me. I always love engaging with you guys, so thanks for always thinking of me.

LaFonda: That makes me so excited. That makes me really happy to hear. 

So we have witnessed another horrifying tragedy in Minnesota as yet another person was murdered in the street by ICE. I don't know that we could call it anything but a murder at this point. How are you doing with that? It's such a hard time. 

Malynda: Yeah. Um, I'm not gonna lie, it affected me really deeply and it's not because we've never seen this before. It's because this one was so black and white, like this was just so cut and dry to me that… how are we even attempting to justify, to excuse or change the narrative? And so, and I, I got upset. I started to feel like, “oh, they're really trying to make us feel crazy.” Like this is a mass gaslighting operation that this administration is doing. 

And you know, I was just talking to my husband. He, he is not on social media or anything, but he reads and, you know, it is very informed and he got really upset because he was just like… if they can do this, when we have all seen multiple angles, multiple videos of the same thing, and still stand there and say the exact same message, Greg Bovino and Kristi Noem, the exact same PR message, what are we gonna do? 

And it just, I came away from it that in order for this administration and government to achieve whatever they want to, they will absolutely justify killing you. And that's terrifying to think about. 

LaFonda: It's awful. And I, I think for me, I was like, how do they get this message so quickly? Right? Like, it's like this thing happens and then this crazy, like you said, it feels like gaslighting and you almost think that you are crazy, right? Like, I watched the video and I'm like, there's no way, there's no way that you can make this anything other than what is. It’s from multiple angles. I was like, I gotta get that video of the lady in the pink sweater.

Malynda: Yeah, right.

LaFonda: Because her video's gonna be damning. And then I watched it and it was.

Malynda: I was worried about her. I was worried about her. Like, find her, make sure she's safe. That was a big concern of mine too, cause that video was going to show everything. And it did. It showed everything. 

I hate to always go back to this, but I know that we can speak real on this podcast. I go back to our parents' generation, when things happened to them and there were no videos and there was no documentation. And so these are the things that Black Americans have been saying since day one, right? 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Malynda: We've been telling people, stay woke. We've been telling you, pay attention. We've been saying at the end of the day, people care about this, they care about the system. They don't care about you. 

LaFonda: Exactly. 

Malynda: There's only so far that, you know, white privilege is gonna protect you. And so I am grateful that we do have a digital world now, but it's a shame that we have to film somebody being executed in broad daylight for it to be believed. In order for it to matter.

LaFonda: I mean, honestly, to some, it still doesn't matter. You, like you said, that they will still spin this narrative and that it's heartbreaking. 

But I think you touched on something that I, that I also wanted to ask about. Because, you know, I show up to the world in a Black body as a Black woman, and I wouldn't change that for anything in the world. And I don't know about you, but I am wrestling with and always wrestle with, especially this weekend, with a conflicting feeling. Obviously what happened to Renee Good and Alex Pretti is horrible. Horrible. But it's also frustrating that it takes the murder of what seems like “normal white people” in broad daylight for some Americans to be activated or moved. 

Malynda: Yeah. 

LaFonda: Or for what we have been saying for generations and decades to be seen or to be heard. And it's hard not to wanna scream, like, “We told you! This is why we told you to vote the way we were telling you to vote in November.” But of course, as Katie says, we need as many people under the tent as possible. 

Malynda: Absolutely. 

LaFonda: We need as many people in this movement as possible. How are you grappling with, as an activist, balancing those two things?

Malynda: So, so I'm gonna respond to a couple of things and hopefully it'll give a roundabout answer to your question. So, in regards to the response to Renee Good and Alex Pretti activating people… you know, at the end of the day, our Blackness still has to earn people's empathy because that is unfortunately the barrier that allows people to connect with us as humans. Which is deeply upsetting because it's literally just melanin, right? Like, like why is that keeping you from seeing me as a human? I am a mom, I am a person, I, you know, I have a family. But those things don't seem to matter because the first thing you see about me is being Black. 

So it's interesting because now people kind of understand this representation, I guess. Because now they can see themselves in Renee, see themselves in Alex, and realize, “oh, I'm not safe.” And unfortunately, if that's what it's gonna take for people to wake up a little bit, then I'm like, “okay, you are here now. You have a lot of work to do. Get to work.”

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Malynda: Right. So I believe in welcoming people over when once they realize. I believe in, you know, grace. But I also believe in accountability. So you can come over here, but I'm gonna remind you about why it took you so long. And everything that you need to do to fix this, because there's a lot of repair that needs to happen. Because you just simply didn't listen to us. 

And the thing about the Black community, why we always say listen to Black women specifically is because we are at, and I don't view us this way, but society has put us at a certain place where all we can do is see everything else around us. Because we're not allowed to be the voice of anything. We're not allowed any positions of power. 

And so when you're in the lowest totem pole, all you can do is look up and see, well, they're doing everything wrong. They're doing everything wrong. If y'all would listen to us, we can see how to fix it because we're in this position to look up and see everything, right? That's why we are uniquely positioned to see everything that has gone wrong from our history to now. To be able to actually give actionable steps to fix things. And if people would just take that chance to listen to us, we can right the world pretty quickly.

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: I'm not even gonna lie, we, we really, really could. But there's something that is just keeping people from allowing themselves to put their trust into someone that doesn't look like them. And I don't, and I don't get that because we've had to do it. We've had to consistently put our trust in the people that don't look like us. And hope and pray that they will remember that we are also humans, that we also need rights, that we are wanting these things, right? 

And don't get me wrong, there are a lot of spicy white people that are doing some great stuff, right? But at the end of the day, like white people are the majority of this demographic, and they're the ones that need to do the most work. So I am, I am... I'm frustrated as well, as you say, because again, like I said, our Blackness still has to earn people's empathy. Like for example, Keith Porter was also killed by ICE, and a lot of people don't even know his name or know his story. But the two white people that were killed, that's the front headlines, right? 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: And it doesn't surprise me. Because to America, we're conditioned to be like, oh, it's another Black person that got killed. 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Malynda: That's been normalized. 

LaFonda: What did he do wrong to deserve it? Yeah. 

Malynda: Right. Exactly. That's been normalized. But you see a 37-year-old white woman who is innocent. You see a 37-year-old white man who's innocent, and immediately there's a, oh, there's an, “oh.” 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: So, yeah, I'm frustrated. But here we are. So let's get to work, you know? 

LaFonda: Yeah. Accountability is a difficult conversation to have. I think that that is what is tough about wanting to call people in. And there are people who are ready to listen and I think that, that, that is one of the things, so we're, we're on a podcast called How to Not Lose Your Shit, and I think that to me is one of the things that, like even this weekend, feels like it is giving me a little bit of hope. It’s seeing people, even in the frustration, seeing people's light go on. 

Even though I'm like, “okay, like this is what it took, for real?” It's like the light is going on for people and I think that's what's giving me a little bit of hope. It does feel like we are at an inflection point, right? It does feel like people are like, “whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. This does not feel like what we signed up for. This does not feel like what feels right to me.” 

It's terrible that it takes this to get them to that point, but I do feel a little bit of hope that at least they're there. 

Malynda: Yeah. I don't, I wanna make sure that the white people that are doing the work, and not in like a coddling way, but like that they know we do see you. You know what I mean? We see the ones that are doing the work, and whenever we say “white people,” please know who we are talking about because we know it's not all white people. We know this. We're talking to a specific group that are still going to brunch and posting about it. That's who I'm talking about. 

But it's heavy because any type of movement like this where you're fighting for people's rights and standing up for a huge cause against the government, there are casualties. And that is so heartbreaking to think about. I mean, I think about our ancestors and I think about people that fought for the civil rights movement. There was a lot of death fighting for our right just to vote. Like just to vote, right? People died for our right to vote and so I'm just looking at the scope of everything right now. 

It's, it's a lot to take in, but it's unfortunately necessary. We all have to show up in this way, but when we as Black people are saying like, we need you white people to show up, it's because we've already put our bodies on the line so much. I mean, this entire country was built on our ancestors' bodies. So, yeah, I know, I know. It's a, it's a lot to carry and it's a lot to, to, to take on and it's so uncomfortable. 

LaFonda: Malynda, speaking of difficult conversations, I wanna just talk about your organization. You are also the executive director of the New Evangelicals.

Malynda: Mm-hmm. 

LaFonda: And if there's anything we're not supposed to talk about… so we've all been, you know, I grew up hearing that you're not supposed to talk about religion and politics, right? If there’s anything we're not supposed to talk about, it’s religion and politics. And you are talking about both. So you're doing all the things.

Malynda: Unapologetically.

LaFonda: Yes. Someone has to do it. Right. So like, let's give a scenario. You meet a stranger on an airplane, and there's always the person that says, “How are you? Where are you going? What, what do you do?”

How do you talk about it? Because the words “evangelical” and “activist” in any particular situation can provoke some really strong reactions. So how do you tell that person what you do? 

Malynda: Well, I always struggle telling people what I do because my multi hyphenate list is just getting longer. 

LaFonda: Yep. 

Malynda: Um, it, it's interesting, you know, saying that I just spoke at a college in Washington and after I gave my whole spiel, people were like, “You are rebranding the word evangelical.” I'm like, “Yeah, that's exactly what we're doing.”

Because, well, the, the actual root of the word, like the Latin version of “evangelical" just means “good news,” right? But it's turned into such a pejorative, and of course, because look at what evangelicals and conservative have done, right? So that’s the reason there's the “New” in front of it. Which I love. Cause the founder of the organization was like, “we need a new evangelical.” And it was just kind of like a stubborn thing. 

But what I love about it is the reclamation of Christianity, because if you look at everything that Jesus taught and what he preached about, it doesn't align at all with what conservative evangelicals and conservative Christians are doing right now. You cannot claim to be a follower of Christ and justify anything that this administration is doing. 

So what the New Evangelicals is trying to do, instead of telling the good news, which is what most evangelicals are, we're trying to be the good news. We're trying be that thing in people's life that make them feel seen, make them feel loved, that let them know that we're actually the Christians that are loving their neighbor as we love ourselves, and that we are showing up in a way that makes people think, “oh, this is what Christianity is supposed to look like.” This is the framework of what Jesus' teachings was supposed to be. 

And so I also just don't wanna let them have it. I don't want them to have, I don't want to allow them to claim it because it's not what I grew up with. I grew up with a very, very different version of faith. I grew up with a very healthy faith, one that taught me about compassion and love and inclusion, and I feel like a lot of smaller churches and a lot of Black churches, I'm not talking about the mega churches, but a lot of Black churches come from like a Black liberation theology. So social justice was kind of built into our framework because we turned to God to get us through a lot of the things that happened in our history. 

And so it was really about… for Christianity, for a lot of Black Americans, and at least how I grew up, was about that connection to God and that joy and that gratitude for just simply being alive on a day-to-day basis, right? And so with New Evangelicals, we are really trying to not only help people heal, but also help them reclaim and then advocate as well. Because at the end of the day, what Jesus said was very clear. Like, I don't know how we're arguing about what this man said, like the red letters are there. He was pretty, pretty clear.

LaFonda: And yet somehow, somehow… 

Malynda: I mean, my goodness. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: It's funny, I feel like a lot of people on the right and evangelical Christians and conservatives, they don't ever actually quote Jesus.

LaFonda: Oh no. 

Malynda: It's always the Old Testament and things that Paul said. It's like, where is Jesus in this conversation? He, he ain't got nothing to do with this. 

LaFonda: Well, the things that Jesus actually did and said don't fit the narrative. That is what I struggle with. 

Malynda: Sure. 

LaFonda: Like Jesus said love your neighbor, Jesus was welcoming of immigrants. That doesn't fit the narrative that they're pushing. And so they have to find the things that fit what they’re saying. And if you don't do the work – my grandfather was a preacher and he was like, “if you just go to church every Sunday and you listen to a pastor and then you don't go home and read for yourself, you're not really doing what you are supposed to,” right? Because you're just listening to somebody else tell you what you should know. 

Malynda: I actually think that the church is more outside of the walls of the church. You know what I mean? Like the community, the advocating, the showing up, the helping people… that's what the church is, that's what Jesus said. Jesus wasn't confined to four walls. He wasn't just preaching. You know, he, he was in the temple a couple times, but most of his work was out with the people outside, with people, you know? 

If we're supposed to be followers of Christ and trying to emulate what that man did, they are failing miserably. They're failing miserably because everything that they believe is about who they are against, and Jesus was about who he was for. So that's what we're trying to do at this organization. We are trying to reclaim, stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus and show up in a way that's not, you know, trying to convert people. We have a lot of people that are part of our community that don't even believe, but they're like, “Y'all are awesome. Let me just, I'm gonna rock with you, right?”

But it's showing up in the way that Jesus did because Jesus also didn't care what you believed. He was simply trying to say, these things will make you feel better, they’ll make your life better. Love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. That is the ethos of everything that he stood on, and so that's what we're trying to do. That's all. 

LaFonda: I love it. That makes me very, very happy, and I think that is the best way to bring people in without the judgment, without the guilt, without, I'm just gonna call it what it is, without the craziness. It’s crazy what Christianity has started to feel like from that side. From the right. It feels unwelcoming. It feels judgmental. And that is not the Christianity that I was raised in. It's not the Christianity that most people I think were raised in. And so using it to weaponize hate against people is making it very difficult to even, it's, it's even hard for people to say “I'm a Christian,” cause you, you almost feel judged when you say that. 

Malynda: I know, I have to give like so many disclaimers. I'm like, “I'm a Christian, but…”

LaFonda: “I’m not that kind of Christian.”

Malynda: Right. I'm a red letter Christian. I'm a Jesus Christian. Yeah. 

LaFonda: Yes, I'm, I'm the kind that believe in feeding the poor and giving people a home. I'm not like a JD Vance Christian. 

Malynda: Right. Oh my gosh. Just rewriting the Bible. I'm like, insane. It is insane because at the end of the day I'm like, what are you getting out of this? Because if you actually believed that when we die, there's, we're going to be, there's gonna be a judgment day, none of y'all are actually acting like that. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: You know what I mean? So you can't believe it. There's no way that you actually believe that based on your behavior and your actions. Because when you show up, he's gonna be like… “Did you try?” 

LaFonda: Like, “roll the clips.”

Malynda: Roll the clips! Yes!

LaFonda: Like I could be there with my popcorn like I was there. God’s like, “I told you. I told you!”

Malynda: So funny. Yeah. Oh man. 

LaFonda: So I think what, what advice do you have for our listeners who want to be a part of some of these different difficult conversations, either about, you know, I think race in some of these conversations or religion? What advice do you have for listeners who wanna be a part of some of these difficult conversations in their own life and they just don't know how to have them? Cause they're hard. 

Malynda: Yeah. I mean, it depends on what angle they're coming from. You know, if they wanna have those conversations because they want to get involved and finally do something, and they don't know what to do, start by saying that. And I think you all actually met with a lot of grace by saying, “Hey, I want to do something. I want to get involved. I don't know what to do.”

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Malynda: “So I'm, you know, I'm willing to talk with somebody. I just, I don't know where to start.” I think even being able to voice that is really, really important. 

But the bottom line is that you have to get involved and you have to have these conversations if you're committed to change. If you want to see some version of change, you have to start talking to people. Get involved in groups. Read, oh my God, read people's Substacks. Read people's books. That's the biggest thing. You gotta start at that spot first. 

Engage in conversations with curiosity, but not in a way that's to make you look good. I think that's another thing that I feel like I see a lot of people, they want to just be deemed one of the “good ones,” and it should never be about that. It's about showing up and doing the work, even if you never get a pat on the back. You know what I mean? I think that it shouldn't be for a reward. It should be for… the end game, whatever that is. Right? 

LaFonda: Yeah. What about tough conversations that people are trying to have with their white neighbors or family members?

Malynda: Yeah, so it's interesting 'cause I'm actually working on a workshop for this for TNE about how to have conversations specifically from a faith-based perspective. And one of the things I realize is you want to be a leader of the conversation by listening to them. And I say this because at the end of the day, everybody wants to be heard, right? And you're never gonna get anybody to listen to you by shaming them. Let's just be honest about that. Or saying, like, “you voted for this, you did this, blah, blah.” It's not gonna work. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: But if you sit down and say, “I wanna understand why you think this way, what about your values aligns with this?” Then you position yourself in a way that says, “Well, for me, my values are this, and that's why I vote this way, or that's why I'm advocating for this.” And I think framing it that way hopefully will get people to kind of listen a little bit better. Because you're not only explaining what it is that you value and believe in, but why you've chosen to make the choices that you do. And if you ask them from that position, I think it will get them, it it, it'll make them think a little bit.

Because if you, for example, you value life. You're, you're pro-life. Okay, so what about pro-life aligns with allowing someone to be killed rather than deescalating the situation? Shouldn't we be thinking, how can we save the life here and deescalate the situation rather than immediately choosing to kill them? Wouldn't your values align with that? You have to ask things in that way to get them to consider, “oh yeah, maybe that's right,” because that isn't valuing another person's life, right? 

You value protecting kids? Okay, my values say that kids' safety is of the utmost importance. So wouldn't your values, if this is something that you believe, want to figure out the best ways to make kids safe? If we know that, for example, guns are the number one thing that kills kids. What can we do to ensure that kids stay safe from guns? Because your values align with that. What could we do? 

So I think that you have to ask those types of questions to get them to really think about the solutions, because I will say at the end of the day, the basis for what we all want is kind of the same. We do wanna be able to protect our families. We do wanna be able to afford groceries, we do wanna be able to, you know, achieve our dreams or whatever our occupational desires are. Right? Those are basic things that everybody wants. We do have different routes to get there, but let's talk about them and then we can see which routes make the most sense.

But I think you have to get down to like a values and a basics things with talking to these people and not just like “You voted for Trump, you're evil.”

LaFonda: Yeah. I think that approach sort of gives people a little bit of permission to think along the other lines. Sometimes people need that permission to say, “You can sway this way just a tiny bit.” And plant that seed.

This weekend, as we've talked about, has been really, really tough for people. And so this has, this has just really been on my mind since Saturday in the work that we do and the work that this team does. What would you say to someone who has someone in their life who may be in that position where that seed, for whatever reason, this weekend has been planted. It's been activated. How can you start bringing those people into the movement right now? Just start to pull them in. 

Malynda: Oh gosh. I think for me at least, I think the most important thing that we can do is to not shame them for being late. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: Because that will turn them away immediately. And I do, I get it. I get it. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: It's like, how much did you need to see? How much did you need to witness? Like why was this the straw that broke the camel's back for you? Right? 

I said to somebody, because somebody posted a long post on Threads and said, “I'm, I'm leaving MAGA, like I can't do this anymore.” And some people were dragging her and I said, “Good for you. Let's get to work. Cause you got a lot to help fix.” And she was very grateful that that's, that was the response that I had. 

And I think that that's how we have to meet these people, these late comers, these Johnny-come-latelys. You have to say, “I'm glad you're here now. You got a lot to do. Because there's a lot to fix.” Again, no shaming. Hold them accountable, but welcome them. You have to because we're not going to get out of this without them. 

And I get it. I mean, it's been 10 years of this nonsense and now we're in like the final stage. Like this is the final boss in the video game and we need all hands on deck. 

LaFonda: You need everyone piling in for that mega strength. 

Malynda: I, I mean, my goodness. Seriously, we, we, we really do need it. And at the end of the day, I don't care what political party you're a part of because your humanity matters more. Your humanity matters more. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what we also need to play to with a lot of these people, is forget the politics for a second, because we are not, this is beyond a political debate. This is beyond right and left. This is humanity. Right. And we need to remember that people are not safe. American citizens are being killed in the street and your government is justifying it. That alone should be enough for all of us to rally together. 

LaFonda: Everybody. Yeah. 

Malynda: Everybody. That alone right there. And so we have to remember that at the end of the day, that's what this is about. This isn't about, “yeah, you know who you voted for, yes, you voted for this and that sucks, and we wouldn't be here if it weren't for you, but now you're here, so come be a human and let's fight this together.” You know? 

LaFonda: That's the one. I think that's the one for me. It's like that. That should piss everybody off. That should be enough for everyone. People are being murdered in broad daylight in the middle of the street. It doesn't matter who they are, it doesn't matter what they look like. That should be enough for everybody. When we say enough is enough, that should be enough for everybody. 

Malynda: Yeah.

LaFonda: Well, Malynda, this podcast is about how to not lose your shit…

Malynda: Which is very difficult right now. 

LaFonda: Very difficult. And this weekend has been even harder than usual lately. So we tell our listeners all the time, we don't have the answers. We will probably never have all of the answers. But in this moment, what is sustaining you? What is helping you not lose your shit?

Malynda: It's so funny because… my family's great, but I laugh at that phrase because I have a five-year-old and a 19 month old. 

LaFonda: Oh yeah. Well then you, yeah, you lose it a lot. 

Malynda: So I'm like, how do I not lose it? Um, because I mean, even just the other day I literally cleaned the living room and then I went to clean the kitchen, and I turned around, living room's a mess again.So it's like that type of stuff, like, okay. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Malynda: But then there's those moments when they both just climb in your arms and just want a hug and it's like… I breathe differently. Just being able to watch a show with my husband or read a good book, watch a Lifetime movie. Oh my God, I just watched a horrible Lifetime movie the other day and it gave me so much life. 

Like, those are my escapes. Those are my things that keep me calm. Taking a bath. We go for walks as a family, which is so nice to just get out in, in nature and, and be out in the world in that sense. So it's honestly the little things, and I've been on this rampage in my house because I'm only happy when my house looks like nobody lives in it, which is basically never… 

LaFonda: We might be soulmates, 'cause me too hahaha.

Malynda: I like, I need my house to look like a catalog and it just, 

LaFonda: I love to clean and then just stand in the middle of it.

Malynda: Oh my gosh. Yes.

LaFonda: Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt.

Malynda: No! So that's also kind of like my kick, like buying little things, going to Costco, trying to like interior design the house. I just think finding those little things that make you happy are the ways to not lose it on a daily basis. Because the minute you open your phone, you go see some nonsense, you're gonna see something that's frustrating or just gives you a debilitating feeling. Like there's just so much happening and it's a lot to process.

So go, go get your latte. Buy a poster or a new painting to put up. Whatever it is. It's okay to have those things because we all need those mental breaks and we all need those things to make us happy. Read a good book. I love reading trashy novels. I'm, I just do. It's the best escape. Find your thing and lean into it. It is okay to have a thing. 

LaFonda: Malynda, it has been an absolute pleasure. 

Malynda: Aw, it's been great.

LaFonda: Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.  

Malynda: Of course. This was great.