Carry Your Torch (with Kate Barr and Jill Barkley Roy)

We all know elections are important, from president to city council and school board. But have you ever heard anyone talk about running for office as self-care?

We hadn’t either — until today! This week on the pod, we were joined by two inspirational women: Jill Barkley Roy and Kate Barr. Jill is the Director of Emerge Action Fund, an organization that trains women to run for office. And Kate has been fighting against gerrymandering in North Carolina for years and now, she’s actually running for office as a Republican as a genius way to beat those unfair maps.

Not only did both Jill and Kate share what they’ve been doing to help women (including themselves) run for office, but they both said that the work they do is what helps them not lose their shit on a daily basis. 

Jill even said that after training 25 women to run for office at a recent Emerge bootcamp, she was so excited that she couldn’t sleep. That sounds a lot better than lying awake because of nightmares about ICE!

Kate, meanwhile, shared this wisdom that she first heard from a Tibetan monk about not spreading ourselves too thin. We should find our torch — the issue we care about most — and carry it in the direction we feel is right and true for as we're able. It's what she and Jill have both been doing for years.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media! 

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Transcript

How To Not Lose Your Sh!t Episode 21: Carry Your Torch (with Kate Barr and Jill Barkley Roy)

Katie: Hi everyone. Welcome to How to Not Lose Your Shit. I'm Katie Paris, the founder of Red Wine and Blue.

LaFonda: And I'm LaFonda Cousin, a part-time yoga instructor, self-care advocate, and the chief people officer here at Red Wine and Blue. 

Katie: Okay, so there's no doubt that elections are important. It's how we ended up with the national nightmare we're all going through right now, but it's also how we can stand up for our families and neighbors at the local level. I haven't heard anyone talk about running for office as self-care, but that was before today. 

We talked to two badass women, Jill Barkley Roy and Kate Barr, who said that running and helping other women run doesn't just make a difference. It actually helps them feel better. Jill is the director of Emerge Action Fund, an organization that trains women to run for office. And Kate has been fighting against gerrymandering in North Carolina for years, and now she's actually running for office as a Republican as a really smart way to beat those unfair maps. 

I thought it was really cool how both of them talked about whether it was running for office as both of them have done, or getting other women to run for office, how it really brings them peace. I mean, Jill talked about how she'd done a bootcamp for 25 women who wanted to run for office for the first time, and how it just like helped her sleep well. You know, she was energized, it brought her peace. And Kate talked about how doing the intense work of running for Congress, again, helping other women run. Like that's sort of how she stays sane. That's how she doesn't lose her shit. 

I related to that a lot. I honestly, I wanna get your advice on this. I'm honestly struggling a little bit with it right now. I feel like I'm so overwhelmed and upset by so many things happening, particularly around ICE separating kids, you know, from their families. 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: I'm so upset by it right now that really the only way I can feel okay is like through my work. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: We're lucky to get to work on these issues, but I haven't been able to set it down like for a single weekend day in a while. You know, creativity, creative action is the antidote to anxiety. And I actually, I feel that. But at the same time, LaFonda, I feel like I am just operating right now at this level of vibration that is just a little too high, a little too intense. And, and I know there's a cost to that, not just burnout, but it makes me… you know, am I making, am I making the best decisions? Am I, am I planning wisely? 

You know, so far no big mistakes, but I, I recognize maybe I'm putting myself in that position. And so I'm just trying to figure out that balance between, like, yeah, to get out of anxiety, it takes action, and feeling a sense of agency does help me not feel anxious. At the same time, how do I discipline myself to bring down that vibration a little bit so I can make sure that I am showing up, whether it's for my colleagues or our volunteers or, or my kids, or you know, my husband and my family in a way that is fully present in my full self?

LaFonda: I mean, there has to be some intentionality, right? Like the creativity might be in the work, and I know that’s sort of antithetical to what I normally say about stepping back and taking the time. But I think what's different about some of the work that Red Wine and Blue does, like our team and you, um, and the work that we do is driven a lot by creativity. 

Katie: Mm-hmm. 

LaFonda: I think that's where that blending comes in. There's a lot of creativity in how we do our work, and so sometimes when we are in that really anxious space, because there's all of these things going on and it's driven by this need to do something. To make that difference, to meet those moments. That is when these really great ideas come out. That is when these really effective calls come out to help people get to where we need to be. 

And I think that's okay. I think that these bursts are okay. That helps us move forward. But I think you also should listen to your mind. I think you should listen to your body. I think you should listen to what's happening around you. Sometimes we are feeling the anxiety in our bodies and it's really difficult to know when that anxiety is the anxiety that is pushing us forward because it is the right thing to do… and when that anxiety is the anxiety that's saying, “this is too much for me. I need to take a break. It's feeling too heavy and I need to slow down.”

Katie: Yeah, 

LaFonda: So what I think I am saying right now is, are you really listening to your body in those moments to understand when it is I need to push and be creative, I need to do a little bit more, I need to hear, you know what creatively is speaking to me because that is the driver? 

And when is my body saying “you're at the limit”? Even if it's just I need to sit back for 10 minutes and just breathe. I need to take this day, this 24 hours to be by myself, and it might be when you're hitting that wall, right? Like, “I'm anxious, I feel like I need to meet this moment, I feel like I need to be doing something, I feel like I need to be moving something forward, but nothing is coming to me. I'm not feeling like I'm, I'm working toward anything. I feel like my wheels are spinning.” 

That might be the anxiety that's like, hmm, you just, you need to let this one go and, and step back for a minute and, and understand where that anxiety is coming from and if it's the anxiety that's pushing us forward or it's the anxiety that's telling us we need to take a moment for ourselves and just step away. 

Katie: That's actually really, really helpful because I think that in my head I've been saying, “no, I just, I'm gonna have to block off times where I just cut it off and tell my kids to hide my phone.” Something I do sometimes. Um, and you know, like, this is the time where I'm gonna quote unquote, “be present fully,” you know, doing something else. 

And what you are describing on one level, it's hard because you're asking, “Okay. Like be present with yourself, see where you really are.” But on the other hand, I feel like it might be more manageable to me and it feels more practical because it's like, “Hey, when you're feeling that kind of amped up feeling, just check in with yourself. Make sure that you're channeling it in a way that really is doing yourself and others good.” I feel like I can work in some gut checks, you know, that can help guide me. 

LaFonda: You have to be kind to yourself. We do this work because we're doing the work for other people. Or you have to be kind to yourself. You really have to know yourself and you have to know what your body is telling you.

Katie: Okay guys. La Fonda's giving some sage advice here. I'll report back on it.

And in the meantime, we are going to share with you our really inspiring, thoughtful conversation with Jill Roy and Kate Barr. So we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back you will have that treat. 

BREAK

Katie: Okay, so today we are joined by two amazing moms, Jill Barkley Roy, the director of Emerge Action Fund, and Kate Barr, who's running for office in North Carolina and is on a mission to stop gerrymandering. Jill and Kate, thank you for joining us on the pod. 

Kate: Thank you for having me. 

Katie: It is so good to see your faces. We are gonna talk about politics and self care. What do you think? Can we do it? Can we do the mashup of both today? 

Kate: Absolutely. 

Katie: Okay. 

Jill: Can't do one without the other. It's true. 

Katie: You're singing my song. Let's, let's learn, let's hear why you think that. 

So look, let's get a little background though for us, for our audience. You both are working so hard to make sure that we have good candidates, that we have fair elections. Politics can be difficult. It can be offputting, it can be frustrating. What made you decide to get into this work? Jill, let's start with you. 

Jill: Well, I feel like I've just sort of always been surrounded by people who served and I was raised in a household where my dad served on the school board when I was a kid, and I watched that and my mom was a social worker and you know, I just, I just grew up watching people when they felt like there was change that needed to happen, going about and doing something about it. And that's how I was raised, ad that's what radicalized me.

And I am still in that mode. I just feel like if there is change that has to happen, I wanna be part of making it, even when it feels impossible. And I'm truly motivated by a deep love every day of my community, of my state, and my country. And I believe in the women that we have at Emerge who step up every day and say they wanna run for office. 

And honestly, it is so life-giving to witness them do just that. I trained 25 women in our bootcamp on Saturday night, and I was just, I felt so revved up. I had trouble falling asleep because I was excited, which was a nice change after the week that we've had.

Katie: Oh my gosh, I woke up having a nightmare. Um, I'm gonna admit it guys, about ICE, like middle of the night. 

Jill: Yeah. 

Katie: And that kind of had me revved up in the middle of the night. And what you are describing is far better. 

Jill: I wanna be clear. It was a change. I have had trouble sleeping. I have had trouble staying asleep. I'm feeling really distressed. 

Katie: Yeah. 

Jill: It was, it was just seeing all these women who are also distressed… doing something.

Katie: And channeling it productively. 

Jill: Yeah. 

Katie: Every woman I have ever met who has been through the Emerge program, which for anyone listening who doesn't know about this, this is not like a one-off, go for an afternoon type bootcamp program for women interested in running for office. This is like a full-on wrap their arms around you, create a community of women who, you know, it sounds like you, you grew up sort of with political engagement being normalized in your household. And I think many women who come to Emerge, maybe that wasn't true for them, but they're feeling something stirred inside them.

And I feel like because you all have this wraparound really mentoring model of supporting women who are interested in running for office, you create that change in them. It's like a whole culture shift that you create among the women doing, going through it together and in their own lives. 

Jill: Yeah, that's the plan.

Katie: Well, every woman I've ever met who's been through the program just really models that. 

Alright, Kate, so you are a revolution, like a walking revolution. Okay. Like you talk about modeling, like normalizing, engaging in this stuff. I cannot wait for people to hear kinda your backstory in terms of how you came to this and then how you sustain yourself in this as well. Because girlfriend, it's nonstop. And, you know, I can relate. But like, I just, I, I, I need to hear from, from somebody who is in it all the time. 

Kate: I do feel like we share maybe some personality… we'll call them “features.” My husband would call it a bug sometimes, but yeah. And Jill, I wanna echo that everyone I know that has gone through Emerge has loved it, has grown from it, and has gone on to do really cool things – often in elected office, but you know, no matter what really cool things. And so I love y'all.

I did not want to be in politics. I have my Master's in public health and so I'm very much a, like, everybody pitch in, do their part and like let's make a society that is worthy of our children. But I really just wanted to focus on my career and my family and I kind of ignored politics. And I was one of those people who thought like, “well, the Democrats win and that's better for me. Like if the Republicans win, you know, everybody's gonna figure it out. They all have the best interests of Americans at heart.” 

And then 2016 happened. And like most of white women in America, I think I was like, “ah, shit, I did not do enough.” I just like assumed that Hillary was gonna win. And I mean, I told my friends to vote and I voted, but I didn't knock a door. I didn't donate money. I didn't text people or make calls or do anything aside from the bare minimum, frankly, of voting. And I was literally holding my six month old, my daughter, in my arms when Trump was elected. And it was like… a thing changes in you, where you realize you're gonna have to step up and do the thing. Because as the overused phrase is, nobody's coming to save us.

I started in 2016 by just volunteering a lot in my community and joining boards and um, I had a great role model and my mother just like Jill, but like, had kind of ignored that part of my personal history as much as possible to be just focused on daily life. And then in 2023, someone asked me while I was standing in line to get a glass of wine at a Christmas festival in my tiny town, which resembles Stars Hollow for those that are Gilmore Girls fans. They were like, “Hey, you wanna run for a losing state senate district?” 

In behavioral science, we talk about chaos theory. There's a certain alignment that when you look back it makes sense and you're like, oh yes, all of these things had to line up this way to result in this outcome, but you couldn't have predicted it looking forward. And that glass of wine was one of those moments for me. Cause I… it was like, we could start talking about politics differently if I ran in this race. I could like hop on my soapbox, which is voter power, and it could be fun. And so I said, “yeah,” and launched Kate Barr Can't Win. And somehow now get to talk to you guys. I don't know. It's been a wild ride. 

Katie: Oh my gosh. This, this is why they're so scared of the organized gangs of wine moms. 

Kate: Yes! 

Katie: Because you're standing in line to get your glass of wine. And next thing you know, you are fucking shit up. Sorry. Running for office, whatever, you know? 

Kate: Yeah. We're liable to make a radical decision, life altering just on a whim when we got a glass of wine in our hands.

Jill: All I need to know about the gangs of wine moms is if we're dividing ourselves based on varietal or not, right? 

LaFonda: Ooh. If anyone is interested, there is a really good, one of my favorite bottles of wine. It's called Chaos Theory. It's by Brown Estates in Napa, it is a black owned winery in Napa Valley called Chaos Theory. So just in case anyone is wondering, 

Kate: Writing that down immediately. 

Katie: I mean, sounds like they need to be like a sponsor for your campaign or something.

LaFonda: I feel like yes, that, that's really where I was going. 

Kate: I'm not taking corporate PAC money, but I will take vineyard money. 

LaFonda: Or just a free glass, you know. 

Kate: Or just in kind. Yeah, an in kind donation would be welcome. 

LaFonda: Okay. So you are specifically running for Congress in North Carolina in the primaries as a Republican, even though you're effectively not a Republican. Tell us why. 

Kate: Ah. So we of course have to talk about gerrymandering, which, basically, the way our voting maps are drawn kind of determines everything about how we are or are not represented by our elected leaders. When our elected leaders get to choose how those voting districts are drawn, basically it's like politicians choose their voters instead of voters choosing their politicians. They don't answer to voters. They answer to, you know, corporate donors or to their like, party leadership. 

Because the greatest threat to their power is no longer the general election and losing to a candidate from the opposite party. The greatest threat to their power is in the primary election. Cause the maps have already decided the outcome of the general. That was what Kate Barr Can't Win was about, calling attention to the fact that our general elections get decided before a single vote is cast based on how these maps are drawn.

Part two of that is given that that's true in the general, now our primaries are where the actual competition happens and we tend to see, best case scenario, 20% voter turnout in a primary election. The man that I'm challenging is just frankly horrible. He's super corrupt, but he was effectively elected by 10% of the registered voters in this district. Because he won his primary in 2024 by 55 thou with 55,000 votes, and the district is 544,000 people. And that's insane, that 10% of the registered voters are choosing who is leading us. 

And in North Carolina, Democrats can't vote in the Republican primary. It's open to unaffiliated voters and to registered Republicans. And quite frankly, like I am at a point with all of this stuff, like I don't care what letter you have to put next to my name, like we have got to hold power to account no matter what. Congress has got to do its job and exercise some congressional oversight and they're not doing it. And so voters need the opportunity to say, “You're not doing your job. Like, get the fuck outta here.”

Katie: Kate, has it changed how you talk to potential voters running with that R by your name? 

Kate: So… not really. Like I kind of… like the R is there because it has to be in order to run in the election that decides what happens in the general. But I'm still me and I don't want to be elected under false pretenses. Like I tell people exactly what I would do and exactly what I stand for. I'm not different than I was before and, and I think we are at a point where we desperately need our leaders to just be honest and transparent.

So if folks don't vote for me, that's fine. Like you don't have to, this is not about me trying to like pull votes out no matter what it takes. It's really about, like, here's this alternative path. If this is what y'all want, it's available to you. 

Katie: Jill, it sounds like what Kate is describing is a very pragmatic approach to politics.

Jill: Yeah. 

Katie: Is that what you see among women in general? The Emerge program is specifically for women who are running for office or becoming engaged in public service. Is that like a common strand? I'd love to hear your thoughts. 

Jill: Yeah, because you know, I mean, so the women that we train at Emerge, we do focus on women at Emerge from the New American majority, so Black, brown, indigenous women, LGBTQ+ women, young, unmarried women. And nothing in politics, in either party or in the, the larger, you know, definition of politics, was designed for anyone that I'm training, right? Like we, it's not designed for us. Those systems were designed to keep us out, not welcome us in. 

So everyone that I train is already coming up against… fill in the blank, right… trying to keep them out of what they're doing. Women that we train are told to wait their turn. Women that we train are told that, you know, “that's not the right race for you. Think about this race.” Women that we train are told, “oh, don't say it like that.” Or “Don't talk about that value because, you know, that doesn't quite fit with what we're trying to do.” Or once they're elected, “don't introduce that bill. Don't give that floor speech.” Right? 

And so, yes, I think that the women that we train are basically saying, “I have a voice. I have a mission. I want to do something. This is what I'm going to do. It is my time, and, and I'm going for it.” And they come together to support each other in that shared mission. And that's what we're seeing. We're also seeing right now at Emerge, I think that there are so many people right now, what's giving me hope here in Maine and across the country, is that there are a lot of people that were not activated before the last few weeks who are activated and who are engaged. 

And for me, as you know, I'm a lesbian, I've been working in politics and activism for my entire career, you know, I grew up activated and active and engaged... I can maybe have some feelings about people that weren't activated before now and who weren't engaged before now. And still it is my role at Emerge to find those women in particular and say, “Here's something that you can do.” Because so many people are going to a protest and then wondering, what else can I do? 

And when I was training candidates on Saturday night, I said, “Have the feelings about people not being active and engaged before now. Those are real feelings. Say them to each other right now, and then go get those people and have them volunteer on your campaign.”

Katie: Amen. 

Jill: Because we do need everyone who is activated, whether they, whether they got engaged 10 years ago, when, that's hard to believe, but 10 years ago during the first administration or they're just now getting engaged in the last few weeks because they realize… you know, there's a famous Angela Davis quote that says, “If they come for me in the morning, they'll come for you in the night.” And I think that we're starting to wake up and realize that we aren’t safe. And those of us that weren't safe in the past know that. People are realizing that if, if there are people who are not safe, we're all not safe. And so let's get those people and let's get them involved and engaged and let's get them engaged in politics. 

You know, there's so many races that I see in my life here in, in South Portland, Maine where I live and across the country where there are races for school board, for city council, for a countywide race, for a state legislature that go uncontested. We're just letting people walk into those seats, so we have to get creative. We have to convince people that they can run for those races as well. 

LaFonda: I'm curious how you talk to people about that, welcoming people and because I know that there are people sitting in that place of frustration and we had Malynda Hale on last week and I asked her this question, and I'm curious how you're, how you are responding to people that are in that place of, like… we've been here and I'm really frustrated that it's taken this really catastrophic thing is for people to sort of wake up. 

But we know that we need those people. And I'm, I'm curious how you are responding to people with this, what we know is necessary, this welcoming and accountability. How are you telling people to welcome people into this place because it's necessary, but also recognizing that place of frustration?

Jill: A hundred percent. So there's, and there's two pieces to that. Uh, first of all, it is my job that I get paid to do every day on Emerge Action Fund to figure this out. And, and I do think that it is my responsibility as a woman who is white to do this work. So regardless of the fact that I'm also queer and I've experienced lots of things on that end, I am white, I have privilege and I have the ability to talk to people in a way where, you know, I, I have bandwidth. I have a little bit more bandwidth, and I have a little bit more emotional energy and I can do it. And so, so it's my job. 

And at Emerge what we did last year is we created a new series called Emerge Rising. And it was everywhere from civic engagement to serving on boards and commissions, to thinking about what a path would look like to eventually running for office. We created that series because we were seeing women saying, “I want to do something and I don't know what to do.” And now I think we're seeing people say, “I want to do something. Not only do I not know what to do, but I'm scared to do it. I'm scared my safety, for my life to do something.” And so we've got to capture these folks and say, “okay, here's where you can start.”

And so what I say in that, in one of those trainings, I say, “If you go to a protest this weekend, I want you to step back from the protest for a few minutes and look out for people who are walking around with clipboards. Or look for people who are sitting behind tables. Walk up to those people, find out what organization they work for, and ask how you can get involved.” Like it's that simple, right? Call your member of Congress. Call your senator. Call your state legislator. Call your city counselor. Get a meeting with your city counselor. Get a meeting with your school board rep. Get civically engaged. Think about serving on a board or commission. 

I mean, I haven't been wrong yet when I've asked someone in a training to Google their boards and commissions in their city, and I'm like, “Tell me how many vacancies there are, because I guarantee there are, I guarantee there's vacancies on boards and commissions in your city right now.” I want folks to serve on boards and commissions, and then I want them to volunteer on campaigns and then I want them to run for office. 

Or something, right? Like if you wanna do something, someone actually said to me like, “I just needed someone to hold my hand and walk me through this.” And I said, “Okay, great. It's me. I'll hold your hand, I'll walk you through it. I have time today.” And I'm raising a 4-year-old. My wife and I have a 4-year-old, and I feel like I was already pretty unhinged and involved before, but now that I'm a mom, it's like adding another level for me. 

And I'm like, “I have to fix this. Like I have to fix this and I need all of these people to come with me and wake up and realize that they have to fix it too.” 

Kate: Part of what I have found helpful is, is to think about what's going on in some of these folks' brains. Because my goal is to have empathy, right? Like I was I was like, a “Barack Obama got elected, racism is over” white lady. So I also had to go through this process of unlearning a lot of the stuff that comes from being a southern white woman. 

Back in COVID times, a lot of people found community online and a lot of those communities were pretty conservative. People started to make their conservatism and their MAGAness part of their identity and, and that because we as human beings seek community, that's part of our survival is to exist in a community. And when we were taken out of our physical geographic communities, we found that community online and made those communities part of our identity. 

Then we have the values like religion, family, honesty, like all of these values systems that also exist inside of us. And when your identity and your values are in conflict, that's like an identity crisis and something has to give. But that's really painful and that can actually feel like trauma to people. And so the way they handle it is by becoming ostriches and sticking their heads in the sand. It makes us super susceptible to any narrative that can explain away the crisis we're feeling inside between our identity and our values.

And that is not the only thing that is happening right now, but it is a piece of what's going on, and it has taken this level of like, extreme violent behavior by our federal government for some folks to finally reckon with this crisis between their identity and their values. And like that is painful to them, and we are no better for ignoring their pain, diminishing their pain, telling them that they should have dealt with this sooner. 

Like, when has anyone saying “I told you so” ever made you want to do anything differently? And so I try to remember that a lot of the people that are showing up right now are people who are feeling pain, reconciling what they thought their government was, what they thought their identity was, and finding that that's wrong.

And so it, like, I have emotional space for that as frankly a straight suburban white mom that not everyone who has been walking this road for decades or centuries or whatever has. But like I can hold that and should, and also there are a lot of people that look like me that in the last two weeks have realized their whiteness isn't going to protect them in the same way that it has before. And that is what has caused the reckoning. And am I glad that that has had to happen? No. But welcome. I'm glad you're here. 

Katie: Thank you for naming that. I feel the same way as a straight white suburban mom too. Um, it, it is a lot to hold. It is necessary to hold and it also can make you lose your shit on a regular basis. Which is what this podcast is about. 

And so that's the question for both of you. Like how do you find that balance between. Mental health and politics, you know, sort of the mental gymnastics that you just described, Kate, you know, it, it, that's exhausting. Right. But at the same time, what I hear you saying, I don't know, I hear you saying not just that I need to show up because of where I am positioned– and you named this too, Jill – like it's not just a need to show up. I hear you both saying you want to. And is there actually some piece of like healing or mental health there for you too? 

Kate: I mean, yes. I spent, I took a week off at Christmas and we closed down the office. What I do when I'm not running for congress is help candidates in gerrymandered losing tier three districts run high quality campaigns. And right after candidate filing in North Carolina, we took a week off. And I was the most down and blue and gloomy I have been in years, because I wasn't working to make it better. So a piece of it is just knowing that I am doing my part to make it better and not just sitting by complacently.

The other part is I have given myself permission to not plug in all the time to what's going on in the world. Like I know what I can do and what I need to do, and I'm gonna do those things. I don't need to perhaps engage with exactly what's going on with the flotilla outside of Gaza right now– 

Katie: Because you probably can't help with that one right now.

Kate: Yeah, that is not the torch that I can carry. I can point to it and say it is absolutely wrong and that is a genocide and we should be doing things differently, but I can't push that boat. This brilliant man Lobsang Sangay, he's the former president of Tibet who lives in exile in Boston, gave me a pep talk that I hold onto all the time. And it was basically, people always ask him, “when will I see a free Tibet?” And he says, “that's the wrong question because that's not in our control.” He says, “the right question is, what can I do today to make sure that when Tibet can be free, it is ready?”

Katie: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: And so he said, he very generously was like, “You are doing the same work Kate. You are saying, what can I do today to make sure that when this regime falls, that when we can have fair maps, that when voters can have power back, our country is ready.” He's like, “That is your torch to carry. Other people may choose to carry their torches alongside. That's awesome.” He didn't use the word awesome, he used something much fancier sounding, “but it is still your torch and you carry it whether anyone carries a torch with you or not.” 

And so our job, I think, for mental health purposes, is to find our torch and carry that torch. And not try to carry 20 torches, not try to carry somebody else's torch, but just take our torch and walk in the direction that we feel is right and true. And if other people wanna come with us, that's terrific, but they don't have to. And it doesn't mean that our torch isn't important. 

Katie: I love that framework. So Jill, does that, does that resonate for you? I mean, when I think about the work you do at Emerge, it's almost like helping women pick their torch maybe, right?

Jill: It's, it's, and for me, you know, I'm an alum of Emerge Maine, class of 2009, and then I ran for office, I ran for the Maine House in 2010 and came up a little short. It was Obama's first midterms, it was a tough, tough time for Democrats everywhere. And you know, I, and then I was the executive director here in Maine, and then I went over to the national organization and I'm still here. 

And so I feel so lucky that I found Emerge, you know, almost 20 years ago, right?  I wasn't in the program, but I found Emerge 20 years ago, and I've just continued to sort of, to stay the course. This is my lane. I want to encourage people to get involved in politics and run for office.

And when Trump was elected in 2016, I, I was, you know, I was outraged and we were coming up on the Women's March, right? The Women's March was happening in Washington DC and everyone I knew was like knitting a pink cap and going, and I was like, “Wait, what's happening?” And it didn't feel, it didn't feel right to me. It didn't resonate with me in the same way. And I had a training scheduled that weekend here in Maine for women who are running for office. And I was like, “You know what? I'm gonna stay here. I'm gonna do that training. My time and my energy is gonna get women to get involved in politics and to run for office.”

And that's just been a drumbeat, like my own heart, that I've just heard for years. And I, and again, right, if you think I was unhinged before I became a mom of a little girl, I mean now, like, I have this 4-year-old daughter, right? And, and I think about her all the time. And I think that, you know, this is, this is a place where we, we, a lot of us are feeling helpless and not sure what to do. And so being able to know, like, I'm like, “I know what to do. Come with me. It's so amazing.” And to be around other women who are doing this. 

Running for office is not easy. You know, I think part of my own self-care is being truthful and part of my own mental wellbeing is being truthful. And so I do spend a lot of time compartmentalizing. I spend time each day to feel anger. I spend time each day to feel grief. I spend time each day to find and create and hold onto joy for a 4-year-old little girl. And, and then I, and I do my job. 

LaFonda: There's something comforting in hearing people say, you know, to give yourself the space to hold all of the feelings. I think that sometimes things are so heavy, you feel almost guilty by saying like, “it's okay to experience joy in this moment.” Right? Or it's things, feel so serious and we need to feel like we're moving forward. You almost need permission for someone to say “it's okay to feel that frustration.” I love hearing people say, especially on this podcast to our people, “it's okay to hold all of those different emotions at any given time.” Sometimes, some days for me, all of those things at the same time.

Kate: I wanna say a thing to the folks who are running for office that I think is so important. And Jill, I even heard almost like an apology in your voice for not winning when you ran. And it is part of my mission in life to take the outcome out of running. I think we get so focused on running for office resulting in serving in office that we forget the impact and importance of running, period. 

And, and it doesn't... it's nice if you win and you get to go on and serve. That's great. That furthers the mission and that's wonderful. But you can also change so much by losing well. There's so much good that happens within a campaign that is completely separate from how voters choose to cast their ballots.

One of the things we talk about a lot is defining the wins that are in your control. Like you can't control what the voters are gonna do. So what does a winning campaign look like for you? Like what would it mean for that campaign to go well, outside of what other people choose to do? And so, I don't know, as people are running for office right now, like it's okay if you lose. In fact, it's awesome that you ran and lost. It's awesome if you run and win! Like just run. It's amazing and it's helpful. 

Katie: I wanna take that same perspective to no matter whether people are thinking about running for office, volunteering with a local organization, organizing a group of friends in your community to run ICE patrols, or whether it's just deciding you're gonna have potlucks in your neighborhood once a month because you recognize that a community that is caring about each other and talking to each other can really withstand anything.

That is the process that matters. All of that brings us closer together. And, like you said, those women who run and lose, I mean, they are the shoulders that one day the candidate who does win stands on. And I just think about… as we are inviting women here every day to do and recognizing that winning the election, like you said, that would be great and one day we will, and maybe it'll be this time around, but we make it more possible for the future by how we do it along the way, y'all.

That's how you do politics and you make it self care! 

Jill: I love it. 

Katie: I think that might be the answer! An answer, anyway. I think we got there, y'all. 

Alright Jill and Kate, we just wanna thank you so much for joining us and thank you for everything you're doing to stand up for your people, your communities, for democracy, for women, for your kiddos, for our kiddos. Uh, just, just a big thank you.

Jill: Thank you.

Kate: Thank you.