Safety in Numbers (with Tory Gavito)

This week, we were joined by Tory Gavito, the president and co-founder of Way To Win — they’re an organization that focuses on multi-racial collaboration to win elections. In fact, this episode itself was a microcosm of how we can win: a Black woman, a Latina woman, and a white woman all chatting together about how we save democracy.

Tory talked to us about how we can turn this country around, even in places like Texas where it seems impossible. She also shared how community and creativity are the secret sauce and, of course, what keeps her from losing her shit.

Speaking of losing our shit, did you catch the news that the Supreme Court just overturned a key part of the Voting Rights Act? We were joined last week by Janai Nelson, the President of the Legal Defense Fund, who argued this case before the Supreme Court. 

Janai is coming back this Wednesday to explain what the court decided, how the decision weakens the political power of Black and brown voters, and what steps we can take now to fight back and protect the right to vote for all. You can learn more and RSVP here.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media! 

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA

YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

Transcript

How To Not Lose Your Sh!t Episode 33: “Safety in Numbers (with Tory Gavito)”

LaFonda: Hi, everyone. Welcome to How to Not Lose Your Shit. I am LaFonda Cousin, a part-time yoga instructor, self-care advocate, and the chief people officer here at Red Wine & Blue.

Julie: And hi, everyone. I'm Julie Womack, the head of national programs at Red Wine & Blue. I'm filling in for Katie today, and I'm so excited. I normally do a lot of our virtual events, so I'm so excited to talk to people in a different format. Plus, I also love the fact that Amy, our producer, will edit this and make me sound amazing. Doesn't happen at live events. 

LaFonda: I love it. I'm so glad you're here, Julie. Um, okay. So Julie, this week we had Tory Gavito. We were joined by Tory Gavito, the president and co-founder of Way to Win, an organization that wins elections through multiracial collaboration. What did you think? What were your takeaways from today's call?

Julie: Well, my big takeaway was that I felt like everything she was saying that we should be doing, we're doing at Red Wine & Blue, our members are doing. There was so much conversation about the need to build community- 

LaFonda: Yeah.

Julie: The need to just have those conversations with your friends and family. Like, door-knocking is great. We have to do it. We have to support our candidates. But the way we're gonna really make an impact, especially with these midterms and especially with, like, these really important elections and issues that are happening, is to really find ways to talk to our family and friends. So it was very validating to hear her perspective on that and to know that that's what Red Wine & Blue members are doing each and every day.

LaFonda: Yeah. And she mentioned that we don't necessarily need to start off with the heavy stuff, right? We need to talk to them about what's going on in their regular lives, right? Like affording vacation, the price of ga- like, the things that impact people day to day In your regular life is how you are bringing people in, having conversations with them.

They should be the people that you know. Like you said, the door knocking and the postcards and all of that stuff is great, but how you make an impact is having conversations with the people that you actually know. I just think that the pieces of information that Torye gave today are things that everyone can take away.

Julie: Yes, absolutely. I would argue that you are already having conversations that are political with your friends. Just when you get together for a girls' night out or you're just talking in a group chat, everything you're talking about impacts, you know, whether it's health or whether it's your kids' school or, you know, whether you're venting about something that happened in your city.

I mean, it's all political, and we're already having these conversations, so I, I really thought that Torye kinda helped us to amplify that point. And then I also really appreciated her take on what she does not to lose her shit. I thought I had s- she had some really good ideas that she's gonna share with you all.

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Julie: Oh, the other thing that I love that Torye said was that she was uplifting our own podcast. Uh, last week we had Janai Nelson, who argued before the Supreme Court in the Louisiana v. Chaley decision. If you're not familiar, that is the case that has really turned voting rights on its head in this country.

Janai is actually going to come back tonight, Wednesday, May 6th, at 7:30. She's gonna come back for a virtual event to really explain to us what happened at the Supreme Court, what this Chaley decision means, how it's gonna impact, you know, voting rights, representation, midterms. And she had a really great way of kind of breaking it down so that the, a layperson could understand the complicated Supreme Court ruling.

So we're, we're glad to have her back, and the link for the event with Janai is in the show notes, so check that out. 

LaFonda: I'm excited for people to hear this conversation with Torye, and I'm excited for people to hear the conversation with Janai tonight. So with that, let's bring on the co-founder and president of Way to Win, Torye.

Tory: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be a part of this community. 

LaFonda: I'm excited to have you here, and we also have Julie standing in for Katie today. Super excited to have this conversation with the both of you. 

Julie: So if we wanna turn this country around, we all need to work together, and I love how on this call right now, it is really a microcosm of that work. We have a white woman, a Black woman, and a Latina woman all talking together about how we're going to win. Why is that so important, and what actions can our listeners take to be part of that? 

Tory: Oh, it's the most important, isn't it? There's no pride of place here in terms of one group is gonna be able to solve all these problems.

There's just, um- You know, we're taught by our moms that there's safety in numbers, and there is. There's safety in numbers. But when you look at places across the South and Southwest, which is where Way to Win focuses our attention, we just, we can see the math of the future. And so we think it's important to focus on winning elections today, winning elections these midterms in places like Arizona, Nevada, Texas, North Carolina, so that we're starting to build the muscle, the muscle memory of organizers and campaign leaders, so that by the time we're ready to go forth in the presidential by 2028, there is muscle memory and traction.

And so when we, just the three of us, get together and start talking about these things, it also starts to model, you know, a bit of humility. Like, maybe I don't know everything that is impacting all of your coalitions, and maybe, maybe you don't know what's impacting mine. You know, there's a lot of conversations right now in Latino organizing space about this juxtaposition between some of the biggest movements we've seen in this newest iteration of Trump being in the White House being about immigrants and immigrant rights, and yet not that many immigrants or immigrant families are actually leading these protests.

Maybe that's okay. You know, like, maybe we don't need some of these Latino families to be on the front lines, 'cause it is, it is a little bit dangerous for them right now. So those are conversations that we're having, you know, inside family, and the more we can kinda work through those things together, we can charge forward.

LaFonda: Tory, last week we got some bad election news. The Supreme Court basically overturned a section of the Voting Rights Act. Can you just quickly explain to everyone what happened, why it matters, and how that might affect the midterms? 

Tory: Woo. The Supreme Court really delivered a doozy last week with its decision in Louisiana versus Callais. I am gonna make a plug for your own podcast. There is a lovely discussion with one of the lawyers who actually argued the case, and one of the things... I mean, there's just, it's just chaotic. Let's just put it simple that way. It's just chaotic. Like, there's just no more rule.

There's no more rule of law when it comes to discrimination in gerrymandering. And within hours of the Court delivering its decision, states across the country, but particularly states with a legacy of Voting Rights Act violations in the South, Tennessee, Texas, Florida, just a number of states are already declaring that this is a new world order.

I- Alabama, Louisiana's governor suspended active elections. It's just the wild- South out there. I'm not even gonna call it the Wild West. It's the Wild South, if we're being honest. And the one thing that I just kinda wanted to kind of put in context was the timing of these cases. So the very first set of cases that gutted Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act came in m- 2013, and this more recent case, of course, is now.

But think about the world between 2012 and now… I just want to just contextualize this a little bit. 2012, Barack Obama's just reelected. 2012, Trayvon Martin is killed in Florida, and it was, like, the start of us becoming more aware of an ongoing set of abuses within police enforcement in Black communities. This new awareness led to the movement for Black lives and a push for a number of changes. 

At the same time, there was a growing backlash. So, you know, you have Donald Trump questioning Obama's birth certificates. You have just people freaking out about kind of racial hierarchies shifting in some way, and that backlash movement is the one we're living through right now.

And I think it's just really important for us to remember that long arc because it's also instructive that our movements, our collective movements, whether it's, you know, Red Wine and Blue getting together and, and educating each other and, and pushing for a legislative change or, you know, Black families, Black women coming together and, and, and fighting for police reform, our movements are strong, and that's why there's this counterforce.

And so I really view this latest case as kind of this end mark of a giant pushback on the Civil Rights Era, on the movement for Black Lives Era. And while it's pretty dark, you know, I also know that there can be a dawn. 

Julie: Absolutely. I, I totally appreciate that perspective. I, you know, the Supreme Court ruling was just honestly, in my mind, so ridiculous that they were like, "Oh, well, it appears that racism is over, so we don't need this anymore."

And then immediately the states For whom the Voting Right Act was actually implemented because they needed 50 years, are the very first ones, like you said, to step up, to start stopping voting and making these changes. So it really is, like you said, a backlash to what's been happening. And I also appreciated your plug for the podcast with Janai Nelson. And good news, Janai is actually coming back to talk with us on Wednesday night May 6th, about the decision and really help educate members, and really kind of cut through the complicated Supreme Court decision. So we're excited for that. 

LaFonda: When you first reached out to us, you actually said you wanted to talk about how Democrats can flip Texas finally in November.

I live here in Texas, and I wanna know if you think that that is still on the table. Um, I actually have some thoughts on it just because- ... because I'm still in Texas. And I'll be honest, like I am a little bit worried about it for a number of reasons. One, just because I think that Texas has been run by Republicans for such a long time, and they have such a strong sort of, I think, psychological stronghold on the state of Texas.

We're not turning out voters. We are not a voting state. We stay at home. But I also think that there is, if I'm being 100% honest, there is a divide. And as a Black voter, a Black woman voter, I do believe that there is a tendency to rely on a Black voting base for Democrats. And so there is not a tendency to cater to Black voters when it is time to run a campaign.

You just feel like, "I've got those votes in the bag," because that Black voting base is pretty reliable, especially Black women. And then when it comes time to be in office, we aren't really thinking about the needs of Black voters, right? And so when we're thinking about Texas and flipping Texas, I really worry about that, especially after the primaries and all of everything that happened with Jasmine and James Talarico.

So I just... I wanna talk about why you think that flipping Texas is still on the table. I am still hopeful and cautiously optimistic. You know, I am still a everybody get out and vote girl, but it is making me a little bit nervous. 

Tory: Ooh. There's a lot to unpack there. And you're right to be nervous.

Um, my father lives in Brownsville, Texas. Uh, he's one of those guys that people like to talk about, the pundits like to talk about from very far away, sitting in New York City. He's a, he's a Latino man. He, he's a double hater, a pox on both their houses. He doesn't like the Democrats, he doesn't like the Republicans.

But I grew up with him being a Democrat, and I have heard him say things like, “what have they done for me lately?” That is, like, a common mantra. And, you know, obviously conversations with our fathers isn't data, but Way to Win has a lot of data. We've done a lot of focus groups and polling over the course of last year to figure out what happened in 2024, and I can tell you there's a lot of Democrats who have told us things like, "What have they done for us lately?" And I can tell you Black Democrats or former Democrats or disaffected Democrats or double haters feel the same way. 

And so we've gotta talk to these people, and early and often, and l- and not just talk, but, like, also listen. I was really struck, 'cause I did listen to the podcast that you all put out about the, the specter of the, the Voting Rights Act case coming out, and I was struck by the number of times y'all said the word community. And I think that that's at the root of all of the next part of my answer. 

So find your community, whether it's with a local party or Indivisible or Red Wine & Blue. The way we win Texas is an all-of-the-above strategy. Like, literally. Like, we're not gonna voter reg our way to win and that's all, but we do need a lot of voter registration. We're not gonna knock our way to victory and that's all, but we do need a lot of door knocks. We're not gonna talk and talk and talk and text and text our friends our way to victory, but we do need a lot of that. Like, it's how all that stuff stacks up. All of those things matter. So if you find something that is really...

It just fits your l- what you can do. Like, if you can make a couple of phone calls, great. If you're not good on the phone, then go ahead and, like there are new op- I, and you all, I think, have done this with us. Um, there are new ways you can hack algorithms by watching videos to the end, liking the posts, you know, reposting the posts, putting it on your story, commenting on the post, at least, you know, five words, commenting with other people's engagements. If, if a post gets a lot of attention, it blows through the algorithms and suddenly people are seeing it, more people are seeing it. So, like, if you're not good at talking to people, but you are chronically online, there's ways for you to plug in.

So all of these things all of these things add up. And then I'll say for the out-of-staters, 'cause I know people are very interested in the state of Texas. Like, I think the entire nation would just be like- "Holy moly, they just did something amazing and it's gonna change the course of the nation and maybe the planet."

I mean, just only because Texas is just such a big marketplace, and it may be the crown jewel of the Republican Party brand, and for it to be tarnished or taken is a big, big deal that could hold a little bit of power to account at the national level. So if you're out of state and you wanna help us figure out how to pull off this, like, amazing miracle, there's the obvious. Obviously, like, you'd give to the campaign. You'd give to Talarico. You'd give to Gina Hinojosa, who's running for governor. That helps. Every dollar counts. 

And I would say give to something else, like give to a community group. I would pair your giving to a community group in addition to the campaign, 'cause the campaign is like a sandcastle. They're gonna come and go, win or lose. But the community groups, like Indivisible, Red Wine & Blue... I'm gonna even plug Blacktop. They're the Black programs that are specifically run by Black organizers, Black women, Black operatives that have run the largest star- door-knocking programs in the state that are exclusively focused on Black communities.

So I would pair, pair your giving with something else that's community-based in addition to the campaign. 

Julie: Well, we truly appreciate you pushing and celebrating community building, 'cause that's 100% what Red Wine & Blue is all about. And we know... I'm in Ohio, so I'm not a Texas voter, but, you know, we still have a, a shot at the Senate here.

And so building that community, getting people out to vote, getting your friends out to vote at the local level, at the state level, I mean, we can make a huge difference. So we appreciate your support for community there. But the other thing that we do a lot at Red Wine & Blue is that we talk about creativity, both in terms of, like, how we make a difference and then how we process the stress of it all.

So what are your thoughts on how we can use creativity in this work? 

Tory: I love it. Um, I was thinking a little bit about the point of community is also, like, it's fun, right? You're not gonna... You don't wanna join the party that's like a duh. You wanna join the party that's, like, having a lot of fun, and that can mean anything.

That can mean cookie decorating parties or, you know, you might have a husband who's a DJ, and you just, like, have a little party in the backyard. Like, I'm, I'm not from Austin, I grew up in Houston, but I've lived here for a number of years. And I remember when South by Southwest was the coolest because it was just a time that everyone put up a screen or a DJ booth or an amp and, like, put on a show in their yards. Like, it was just wild. It was wild times. The whole community had something going on. 

And why not, right? Like, I, I think when I see how communities have come together in Minnesota and North Carolina, in Los Angeles, in Portland around pushing ICE out of their communities, there's always been an element of fun and spectacle and joy. I mean, we have to find it. We have to find it. And so whatever it is you do, do it. 

And remember how I said we're not gonna knock our way to victory? I think somewhere along the line we got very confused that the tactic of door-knocking and conversations at doors was the only way we could express conversation about who we are, what we believe in, and who we're fighting for. And I feel strongly that we should be having more of those conversations in our homes, you know, in our school mom groups, just little, little bits of conversations. 

We don't have to take on the big, you know, like, "Did you see that this guy made another billion dollars, and all he's talking about is the ballroom?" Like, we don't have to go straight to the divisive thing. We can just talk about, like, "Hey, how are y'all coping with this, the price of gas increases?" Like, the amount of families I know that have made trade-offs about what to do during spring break, you know, h- hold off on a spring break trip because we still want a summer trip.

Can we afford that summer trip with the way that the airline prices are, like, moving forward? Like, these are real conversations people are having right now with trade-offs about what they can do in their budget, and they still wanna have, you know... We're, we're Americans. We still wanna have our summer road trips to the parks and, and whatnot, and some of that's being taken away from us.

So there are little openings where we can have these conversations and then, you know, maybe invite them in to a book club or a next session where y'all are meeting up and, and you can get people plugged in easily. I think people are looking for community. Like, I don't know that we've bounced back from COVID yet, if we're being honest.

Like, we're all still looking for, okay, like, what, what's my jam? What's my vibe? I know I signed up to some new b- book clubs 'cause I'm like, "Where, where are my people? Where is the new group?" 

Julie: Well, I love everything you said because you are supporting everything Red Wine Blue is always saying. 

LaFonda: I was gonna say, you're speaking our language. Yeah. 

Julie: Beside building community, like you said, campaigns come and go. We obviously have to support them, but you know, these organizations that stay around all year and- Mm-hmm ... and make those connections and give people fun, creative ways to get involved in politics that doesn't feel icky like the, the very traditional tactics, I mean, that's exactly what we do.

And we 100% tell people exactly what you just said, is that you need to have those conversations with your friends, and it doesn't have to be coming in with the, "Did you read this political story about..." It could just be, like you said, a conversation about gas prices or how you're feeling or, you know, your mom's in the hospital.

"Oh my gosh, how's that going? Let..." You know, there's ways to have those conversations that are so impactful. So I totally appreciate everything you just said. 

Tory: In your experience... I, I'm gonna ask you all the questions. In your experience as you are building these little communities, it seems to me like it's true that people cherry-pick- ideas. Like, I, I think sometimes if we were only listening to MS Now or if we were only reading The New York Times, you think that everybody falls along an ideological spectrum that's, like, super coherent and super, like, linear and super, like, I have a degree in poli sci, when it's just, like, not real life. 

Like, I've been in Ubers with dudes that, you know, are wearing a c- a cap that's clearly right-wing coded who will tell me, like, "Yeah, man, the immigration enforcement's gone too far. I lost, you know, two friends to deportation," or something, right? Like, they will say things that give you openings that make you realize people's lives are more complex. Is that y'all's experience? 

Julie: Yeah, absolutely. I would say as these, like, our red, white, and blue network groups form, you know, pe- we organize around shared values, so we're saying these are the things we believe in, and so that brings in a lot of people.

But you have those ki- I mean, I have friends who are teachers, and their perspective on something may be very different, or someone who's worked in, you know, corporate America. Like, we share the same values. We feel the same about, like, politics, and we wanna make change, but we may come at it from different perspectives.

I learn a lot from listening to people who have a different view or a different life experience because I think you're right. There is this perception that everyone's on this linear path, and that's, that is just not true. That's the beauty of community, is that you're able to actually learn from each other widen your perspective.

I love what you said about your dad. I said, honestly, I, I, my husband and my kids, I listen to them all the time because they're not immersed in this every day, so they are honestly kind of my, like, view into, like, what does the average person think? So building community and having people have these conversations is so, so important.

LaFonda: I think it's important, too, like, we build these communities in real life, right? Like, we find people online potentially, but you're talking to people in real life. You're out in the world, and you find these groups. You find people in real life 'cause being online, you are clicking on things. You're listening to things. You're posting things. The algorithm is catering to what you already believe, and when you're finding your people in real life, you are hearing other people's thoughts. You're hearing other people's opinions. You're influencing how other people are thinking as well. You're having real conversations. I think sometimes when you're chronically online, you do get stuck in a box of your own thoughts and your own opinions, and your own timeline is sucking you into what you already believe.

So being a part of community offline actually really, really helps to do exactly what, what you're saying is, like, there are people in the world who I might see potentially that T-shirt or, you know, the, the physical aesthetics and think, "That person's not on my side." But we like to say all the time, there are more of us than there are of them.

Like, more people believe the things that we believe. More people believe in the rights that we want people to have than not. But when you're online chronically and you haven't found the group, and you're not having some of those real-life conversations, it can be easy to believe you're alone, and you're really not.

Tory: Yeah, for sure. It just strikes me that the work of building community is also, it's just the work of democracy, punto fina, like, for the whole term. Like, it's not just a tactic to get us through this midterm where we wanna win back the House, which we need to win back the House because oh my gosh, we need a check and balance.

But it's like it's actually living, I think, some of the better parts and the better ideals of our Constitution about we the people. So I think it's part of the long term, the long-term build-out, too. 

LaFonda: It's not just today. Yeah. This podcast is called How to Not Lose Your Shit. Um, I don't know why I say it like that.

It just feels like you're supposed to be like- ... that's real. That's a real statement. Um, and honestly, it gets harder and harder every week with this administration. Like, I say every week, but honestly it's, like, harder every day, every hour, all of the things. But we have to hold on to hope and joy if we wanna sustain what this fight is for the long term.

So how are you, Torye, living in this work every single day, helping people get through it every single day, and not losing your own shit? 

Tory: Well, let's not pretend like I don't lose my own shit periodically. That's 

LaFonda: what this podcast is about, helping us not lose our own shit. 

Tory: I know. I think we had a rule in our team once that was like, "We can all lose our shit.

We just can't lose it all at the same time." Like, one- Yeah ... of us has to be focused. Um, so okay. So I will be honest that I have kind of two strategies. Maybe three. I have a lot of strategies, actually. One of them is I'm pretty disciplined about my health. You know? Like, there's not another email that can't wait.

If it's like, I gotta get out this email or I can take a walk, take the walk. Mm-hmm. There's gonna be another day of emails. Take the walk. So to the extent that we, you know, we women of a certain age, you know, I'm, I'm in my, past my mid-40s now, like, just- 

Music: Mm-hmm ... 

Tory: tend to your health. It's, it's okay. Mm-hmm.

It's good for you. So that's thing one. I'm pretty disciplined about it. Second thing is I really fell into an NBA bunny hole maybe about three years ago. I, I think it's in part because- I've been reconnecting with my dad, back to dad stories, and I've got a kid brother. My dad has a second f- you know, a second family later in life family, so I have a kid brother who's, like, 19, and I would rather connect with him about what's going on with the Spurs than I would the latest thing on Joe Rogan.

Mm-hmm. And so I have allowed myself to just fully embrace that I am part of an NBA family, and in fact, I'm getting to go visit a college friend this weekend to go see the Spurs and the Timberwolves in the second round of the playoffs. So fin- find something weird that just gives you some joy, that's just like, I, I can count buckets and I don't have to look at polling today.

Um, that sort of thing. That's my second thing. And I think my third strategy is to re-root in history just a little bit, and there's really fun podcasts out there. I stumbled on this podcast that y'all might like called Our Ancestors Were Messy, and it's, it's Black historians and, like, Black culture commentators who realize that there's, like, a ton of information we know about, like, people like Marlon Brando.

And there's this funny beef that I learned that Marlon Brando and Frank Sinatra hated each other, and they would always, like, do weird stuff and make each other pissed off, right? But we don't actually know that about, like, Langston Hughes, and the, the folks of the Black Renaissance that were equally culture makers, right?

Like, there's no doubt the Black Renaissance was a major part of American culture. I mean, it brought us the Jazz Age, right? So what about their beefs? What about their fun things? And so it's a deep dive on the cultural legacy of Black communities and the beefs they held. But what's interesting about it is it also weaves in a bit of history, and it reminds me, like, as this goes back to this, like, the SCOTUS ruling and Calais, it reminds me our country has had a lot of challenges.

Like, we are not the first community of women to sit down and talk like this. We are not the first Latina, Black, and white woman from different states to sit down and talk and say, "Oh my gosh, how do we not lose our shit today?" It has happened before, and there are lessons that we can learn from history.

And so being grounded in a we've been here before, we can get out of it again is really helpful reminder that there's a long arc. 

Julie: I'm gonna check it out because I definitely need to disconnect. My podcast list is all politics. I need history. I need something else, so I'm gonna go check that out, too. That sounds amazing.

LaFonda: I love that. Well, thank you so much, Tory, for coming on the podcast today. This has been an incredible conversation, and it has been absolutely amazing having you. 

Julie: Thank you. Thank you.