Women Go The Distance (with Jaclyn Friedman and Jenny Steadman)

Attacks on voting rights got you down? Tired of feeling like you can’t make a difference on a federal level? Have you considered focusing on… sex ed???

Wait, hear us out! We talked to Jaclyn Friedman and Jenny Steadman from EducateUS this week and it turns out that comprehensive sex education has the power to change everything about our culture and our politics. There’s a reason that authoritarian governments crack down on sex ed.

It’s not just about sex — in fact, in the younger grades, it’s not about sex at all. Jaclyn encouraged us to imagine what our government would look like if every man in power was taught about consent and how to handle rejection from a young age. That’s just one sex ed lesson that could change our country.

It’s also wildly popular, across all demographics and political parties. Not only do 75% of all Americans want sex ed in schools, that number remains at 72% even when they’re specifically told that would include education and inclusion for transgender students.

Extremist politicians and pundits want us to believe this is a divisive issue, but it’s simply not.

If you’re not already a believer based on all of that, sex education is also an issue where you can make a serious difference in your community! A simple conversation with one of your school board members can have a huge impact. And EducateUS is making it even simpler by offering to reach out to your school board members for you! All you have to do is fill out this form.

If you need more resources to help you talk about sex ed with the people in your life, the EducateUS website has tons of free resources.

Happy Sex Ed For All Month!

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media! 

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA

YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

Transcript

How To Not Lose Your Sh!t Episode 34: “Women Go The Distance (with Jaclyn Friedman and Jenny Steadman)”

Katie: Hi, everyone. Welcome to How to Not Lose Your Shit. I'm Katie Paris, the founder of Red Wine and Blue. 

LaFonda: And I'm LaFonda Cousin, a part-time yoga instructor, self-care advocate, and the chief people officer here at Red Wine and Blue.

Katie: Okay. It's been a heavy couple of weeks. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: The Supreme Court decision in Calais. Oof. Just a total decimation of the Voting Rights Act. 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: The civil rights movement, the coattails of that movement, I think is what we both like to think that we're riding on in terms of doing this work, so it has felt like a massive blow.

I'm grateful that we got to have time together in person, and that even happened while we were together in person. But then coming back home and just sitting in it… I've been so grateful for this team, for you, for us to continue to be in touch. But sometimes we just... We gotta name it. We've been losing our shit a little bit around here.

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: We're already seeing the damaging effects of the Supreme Court decision. Republicans in Tennessee have already pushed through a new map dividing up the state's only majority Black district. 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: And the Virginia Supreme Court struck down their redistricting maps that Virginia had created really just as a single year fight back against the gerrymandering we were seeing in places like Texas that were, you know, also eliminating Black districts.

So yeah. Y'all, this is making us lose our shit, and we are combating that by being honest about losing our shit. And we're getting women together to talk about what we can do at the local level. We've already had events about this. We brought Janai Nelson back from LDF to discuss all of this, and we took next steps in terms of advocating for the John Lewis Voting Rights Act in Congress last week. We are getting women together this week on Thursday night to spread information about voting rights.

But how are you doing today, LaFonda?

LaFonda: Um, yeah, I mean, last week was really tough. The week before obviously was really tough, and we talked about this last week. I feel like I keep hitting these walls where it's just like, does this even matter? Like, this is ridiculous every day, and I know we've- I've said it on this show before, I say it personally, I've said it to you before… this whole charade feels like we're in a Saturday Night Live skit, and now it doesn't even feel like we're in a Saturday Night Live skit. It just, it just, it's not even funny.

They’re basically saying, "We don't need these things anymore, right? We don't need voting rights protections anymore. It's fine," you know, all of these things are saying, "It's fine, racism is over." And then you prove why racism is not over, and why we need the protections that were in the Voting Rights Act. And then the celebration that happened in Tennessee with people walking around, like, you know, lawmakers walking around with Trump flags on their back? It just felt so surreal, and I just... I'm honestly still not over it. 

And this work, our team, you obviously definitely help me not lose my shit, but… I don't know. 

Katie: The only way we get through this is together. I think it's really okay to not be okay right now. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: I know it is, you know, it's, it's adding fuel to my fire. I did have a day last week where I was feeling a little bit like, "Is this what it feels like to feel defeated?" 

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie: And then as soon as I felt in my body me asking myself that, something lit up again. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: Because that's the intent. 

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Katie: And that doesn't mean that it's not okay for sometimes the tank to not be full, but that's when we kick in for each other.

LaFonda: It's why I show up, it's why I keep coming, it's why it's important for you and I to have those spaces where we have those conversations, 'cause I think that at work, you're my person, and we talk to each other, and it makes me feel like, "Okay, I can come back tomorrow. I got one more day in me." 

Katie: Right back at you. Right back at you. And, you know, and I felt like Jenny and Jaclyn had some of that for each other too, our guests today. I'm really excited to get to- Yes ... share how they talked about how they do the hard work that they do. The fight for comprehensive sex education, which is the topic of today's episode.

I think... at first when I realized we were doing this episode, I thought, "Wait a minute, but we're in the midst of this big voting rights fight, wait, but this is happening, too…"

LaFonda: “Something else is happening.” Yeah. 

Katie: It's a reminder of how core all of these things are to who we are and how they all relate to the world that we wanna live in and build together.

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Katie:And, you know, I feel really lucky to be in this fight with Jaclyn and Jenny, and I'm excited to introduce them to our listeners today. So we decided to have this episode this week because May is Sex Ed For All Month. We are joined today by Jaclyn Friedman, the founder and executive director of Educate Us, an organization that believes comprehensive public sex education can change the world.

We were also joined by my friend, Jenny Steadman, who I originally met at my beloved local gym, and who helps run my local Red Wine & Blue network group, Hope in the Heights, and now Jenny works with Jaclyn at Educate Us. I just love all the things and how we're all tied together. 

LaFonda: Our conversation today with Jenny and Jaclyn, um, was really helpful in the beginning to think, maybe today I don't have 110%, but if I give 57% today, that's gonna be enough to get me to tomorrow. Because sometimes that's all we can really do, 'cause the weeks, like these last couple of weeks have been really tough.

And it makes community more important. It makes having people around you who remind you about the reasons that we continue to have these conversations, to do this work, to put one foot in front of the other, it makes it, it makes it feel more important.

Katie: I will take your 57% any day of the week over most people's 110. 

So with that, Jaclyn and Jenny, thank you so much for joining us!

Jaclyn: Delighted to be here. 

Jenny: Yes, thank you for having us. 

Katie: Well, Jaclyn, I know you by reputation, I know you by Zoom because you have taken part and been a featured guest on many a Red Wine & Blue event to inform our community about comprehensive sex education, and I'm excited to get into it.

And then Jenny, I mean, duh, of course I'm like completely delighted to have you here, since like we go way to the way back, Jenny and I. LaFonda knows, I talk about the gym all the time, but Jenny was like- ... one of my OG favorite people at my gym, and then before long, she's, like, coming up to me being like, "I think I want to do more in terms of our country and our world and everything breaking." And then now she's one of the leaders of my local Red Wine & Blue group, Hope in the Heights, which you know about. 

LaFonda: Yep. 

Katie: And now she's working with the amazing Jaclyn at Educate... You, do you say Educate Us or Educate US? 

Jaclyn: We say Educate Us, but it's fine, it is also correct to say Educate US. We mean it both ways.

Katie: It's a double meaning! To educate us, and, you know, we are the US, and it is patriotic to fight for the things we believe in. 

Okay. Jenny, how has it felt? What's... How has it felt to just keep leveling up your community involvement like this? 

Jenny: It's everything I hoped it would be, including insane.

Katie: Oh, also because, also, guys, Jenny ran for school board. Like, I'm, it's, I, I skipped over that step, too. I mean, she really... You know, we're always telling women, like, you, you can do all this, you know? And you have really embodied that. Thank you. 

Jenny: Well, thank you. Well, going to Red Wine & Blue events and, and working with a local group, and everyone's like, "Someone in your group's gonna run for school board. One of your members is gonna run for school board." And then I was like, "Fuck, I have to run for school board. It's me.” 

Katie: Why not me, right? Did you just, did you think that?

Jenny: Exactly. And, um, I'm like, "If I'm gonna pressure someone else to do it, I should pressure myself," and I just embraced it, embodied it, and I did not win a spot on our school board. But at, like, that election night, I knew, like, "This is just the beginning." 

Like, this was such an amazing educational experience. I met so many people. I learned so many things, and it just felt like a launching point, and since then, some, like, things have just been lining up, and it's, um, a little bit too much at once and also, bring it all on.

Katie: Love it. Did you all see the woman who won the 250-mile race last week? And how... Okay, so this is a woman, she did it in, like, she made a, a, a new world record. It was something like 54 hours or something like this. She slept for 19 minutes in the midst of running. Climbing mountains was involved in this...

Jenny: An ultramarathon. 

Katie: Yes. Ultramarathon. Okay. She was not only first place among women, she beat the men. Like, she was the first place person. It was just a new record for anyone of any gender.

And what she said was what kept her going was just that thought of, like, "Why not me? Why not now?" And so I just, like, hear echoes of your journey. It's like whether... You know, and she also, of course, talked about how the greatest challenge of it all was the mental, not the physical. 

Jaclyn: Women go the distance, baby. 

Jenny: It's a marathon, not a sprint, yeah. 

Jaclyn: We go the distance. 

Katie: In all the ways. 

LaFonda: So how are you not- losing your shit right now? How do you find that being involved in the distance, keeping all of the things together, helps you not lose your shit? Or do you? 

Jenny: I do think losing your shit is helpful to not lose your shit. 

Katie: Ooh. That's a good kernel. Say more. 

Jenny: Y- y- well, sometimes you gotta, you gotta, you gotta process it all and let it all out so you can, like, refocus. And I feel like working with Jaclyn and EducateUS, I feel like that's a constant thing. Like, every once in a while we all have, we, we have a Friday staff meeting, and we all start with, with, like, how are you arriving? And, I don't know, we talked about our favorite potatoes the other week. 

But we often arrive, like, everyone's kind of like, "I'm going insane," and we just kinda have to let it out, and then we have, like, this incredibly productive meeting. I think losing your shit is just, uh, voicing the reality of our situation. 

Jaclyn: Yeah, I'm a real believer that we have to be people doing this work. 

Jenny: Totally. 

Jaclyn: Right? And so that's why we have a set of team agreements at EducateUS, and the very first one is about relationships and people being the most important thing, that we are very focused on making a real impact and real change, but if we dehumanize ourselves or each other in the process of that work, that's not liberatory work, right?

So I really work hard to make a workspace where we can just show up as the people we are, and sometimes that means we're not in a good mood or we are losing our shit or all kinds of things are happening. And I always want there to be a beat for us to just sort of witness that for each other and own that and be like, "Okay, here's what I have. This is what I'm showing up with today." And then we work as the people we are, not the people we're projecting ourselves to be. 

LaFonda: I actually really love that. Can you tell me what that looks like on a day when everyone is showing up and it's just like, "Today's not my day, friends. Like, it's just not the day where I'm gonna be able..."

I always, I've- I've said before, like, today is just the day that I'm gonna give it my some, right? Like, I don't have my all. Right? Every day we don't have our all. What does that look like for you, for your team, when you just, it's clear that today is the day that we just have our some? What does that look like?

Jaclyn: We just have to confront that and be like, "Okay, well, what can we do with what we have?" Right? We're just gonna let go of what we thought today was gonna be, and whatever metrics we had set for ourselves, like, and think, well, what can we, what is the best thing we can accomplish with what we have today?

And, you know, one of, another of our team agreements is sort of do less better. This is a motto that I came up with for myself many years ago because I'm bad at this. 

Katie: Oh my God, same. Jaclyn, we need a support group. 

Jenny: Katie needs a support group! 

Jaclyn: It makes me absolutely crazy. And, and so one of the ways that we don't lose our shit is that I'm constantly trying to say, like- “Okay, what do we need to jettison here,” right? Like, and what can we do well with what we have, instead of what can we... try and sort of half-ass all the things we had set out to do. 

Like yeah, we set this as a goal, it was a real important goal. It's clear today we are not gonna hit that mark. Like, let's not spend a lot of time agonizing over that.

LaFonda: Mm-hmm. 

Jaclyn: It's just true. It's just true. We're not gonna hit it, so like, let's live in reality and figure out what we can accomplish together today, and what's the best thing. Yeah. 

LaFonda: And it doesn't make the goal go away, it just means we're doing it- 

Jaclyn: Yeah ... 

LaFonda: – another day when we are capable of taking it on. We're not capable of taking it on today. 

Katie: And as the perpetual maximizer, something that helps me a little bit here too, is that there actually can be a surprise. I don't find that like when you actually have the presence of mind and the intention to be like, "Hey, wait a minute, let's step back," that that necessarily even means the like, “okay, well, not much is gonna happen today, oh well.” You know? 

That sometimes actually in those moments where you allow for space, there can be new ideas. Fresh perspective. You know, like the calmer version of myself who probably doesn't get to show up enough. You know, maybe she's got some good ideas too. 

LaFonda: Yeah. Or you're getting something that you let go before done better 'cause you weren't paying attention to it before. You were focused on this really big thing, and today you have a calmer mind to focus on something that maybe is smaller and probably really important today. 

Jaclyn: Our work is urgently needed, but on a day-to-day basis, like we're not doing brain surgery, right?

So most of the things that need to get done, it'd be good if they got done sooner, but also can be done later. Now, we do work on elections and things where sometimes you have a real timeline, but I think it's very important to tease out important versus urgent, right? Right? Like, this work is important. It doesn't mean it's all urgent every day, and also spinning at that level of urgency every day is how we lose our shit faster. 

I once asked a woman who was just like an incredible lawyer, and she was running the Women's Bar of Massachusetts, and raising two kids, and she's like, you know, one of those do it all women. I was like, "I feel like I'm dropping balls every day. Like, how do you do this?" And she's like, "Oh, I drop balls every day. I just make sure that the ones I drop are rubber and the ones I catch are glass." 

Katie: Mm. 

Jaclyn: I didn't make that up, and I don't think that she made that up, but it is such a good rubric for me when the shit hits the fan. It's like, okay, which of these balls are glass? 

Katie: Okay, I'm gonna add, though, an amendment. I think that even sometimes the glass balls might drop, but the key is gonna be that, like, I've got a Jaclyn or a Jenny or a LaFonda by my side to help pick up those, even the tiny shards. 

Jaclyn: That is also true. Sometimes you do drop the glass balls. 

Jenny: So if I could just add in one more of Jaclyn's team agreements that she's created, it is, and, and this daily helps me not lose my shit, is to remember that we have a moral obligation to succeed. And what does that look like today? What does that look like in a week? What does that look like in a year?

It's different, but just, like, what am I gonna do today to help move this success forward? And some days you're gonna slingshot it forward, and some days you're gonna, like, bunny hop. 

Katie: Yep. Okay. We've been letting our listeners wait long enough, with bated breath ... let's dig into the specific and very important work that you all do. So what exactly is comprehensive sex education, and why is it so important? Let's just start there. 

Jaclyn: So sex education is a K-12 set of lessons that, honestly, adults should also learn. I mean, it's a lifelong set of learnings, right, about both how our bodies work, how our bodies interact with each other, and how we can have healthy relationships with each other and healthy intimacy and connection.

Fundamentally, it's about all of those things, and when you think about those things, it's like the building blocks of our lives, right? Our, our entire lives. So one of the things I say when people need to think more broadly about sex education, because I think a lot of us really just know the sex education we got or our kids got, which a lot of times is either very limited or harmful or non-existent, or we're thinking about misinformation we heard, which I'm not even gonna repeat because I don't like to do the opposition's job for them.

Katie: Amen. 

Jaclyn: When I like to expand people's thinking about the potential and the importance of sex education, I s- the, my very fastest line is imagine a generation of men raised knowing how to handle rejection. Just imagine how that one thing, which is only one thing that sex ed does, of many, would change the entire culture in this country. Imagine if every man in power right now was raised knowing how to handle rejection and how different the country would be. 

Katie: Okay, so explain how that is a part of comprehensive sex ed because I think that a lot of the disinformation is based on this total oversimplification, over-sexualization, essentially, of what comprehensive sex ed actually means. Which ultimately, when it's understood accurately, is really uncontroversial. 

Jaclyn: Yeah. K through 5, sex ed is honestly a misnomer. It's part of this curriculum because everything builds on it, but no one's talking about sex in K through 5. They're talking about good touch, bad touch. How do you i- identify who a trusted adult is for you, right? Basic consent, but not about sexual consent, right? Like, can I play with this toy that you have, right? Like, can I hug you? You know, like the stuff that we teach kids about consent, that then when you build on that and you start talking about sex as they get older, you've already laid the groundwork.

But also, there's a lot of socio-emotional learning built into sex education. That's where a lot of kids get it, right? Like, so in order to understand and navigate consent, you have to be able to handle rejection, right? 

Katie: Mm-hmm. 

Jaclyn: So consent culture really only works when it's okay, genuinely okay to say no, right? Like, if I say no, and I think someone's gonna follow me out of the bar and shoot me, which is a thing that we know all too well happens, right? Like, that doesn't actually give me the freedom to say no. 

When you start that very young, on very low stakes interactions, teaching people not only to be able to say yes or no, but to receive yes or no, that's in those consent lessons, you raise a generation of kids who all know how to handle rejection. 

And those lessons don't just stay with sex, because human inter-relationships are complex, right? None of our relationships are only one thing. So if I know how to have a healthy, intimate relationship, I also know how to have a lot of other kinds of healthy relationships.

Katie: When you talk about it this way, not only does it make me feel like this is so important for my own kids, it does make me feel like this is so important for our culture. And the world that I, how I wanna raise them, but the world I wanna raise them in. And so this is just, this is not a small issue.

Jaclyn: It's not a small issue. It is fundamental to so many changes we wanna see in this culture. If people care about reproductive freedom, we have to have sex education, right? What's the point of having things, reproductive services available to us and choices available to us, if we don't understand them and we don't understand our own bodies, right, and each other's bodies?

If people care about LGBTQ liberation, we have to be talking about and fighting for sex education. If people care about ending gender-based violence, we have to be talking about it. Honestly, that's how I got into this. I spent most of my career doing anti-sexual violence work. The work I'm most known for is actually a book called Yes Means Yes, which popularized the idea of affirmative consent. 

And I spent a long time working on that, and I eventually, I kind of got to a place where I honestly couldn't talk about rape all day every day anymore. But also, I just wanted to stop pulling the babies out of the river and wanted to stop the babies from going into the river, right? And primary prevention for sexual violence is sex education. We've done a lot of research on that. It's sex education. 

So, so many things. I believe, you know, I don't think there's been studies on this, but I, I actually believe that if you wanna reduce community reliance on police, sex education is a great answer to that because again, it takes us- teaches us how to peaceably resolve disputes, right? I think it's a fundamental pillar of democracy.

And you know who else thinks that? The people who are against democracy. Right? Every authoritarian project has come after sex education. Authoritarianism cannot exist when we have comprehensive sex education because they need to control sex, gender, and reproduction in order for their project to succeed, and part of that is keeping us ignorant and keeping us isolated, and sex education works against all of that. It is a fundamental plank of democracy. 

LaFonda: For someone who is, um, who is conflating, 'cause we, I hear this a lot, someone who conflates age-appropriate sex ed with grooming, how do you tell them that it's not without losing them in the first 30 seconds? 

Jaclyn: If somebody's coming in that hot, I'm mostly gonna get quiet and ask them a bunch of questions. Like, I don't think that's somebody who wants to debate. I think that's somebody who has a lot of activated feelings around the issue, and so I'm gonna just honestly get real curious with them about where did they hear that, what resonates with them about that, and like, what's coming up for them that makes them want to believe that?

And once you understand where their values are at, you can then connect with whatever those underlying values are, which are mostly about keeping kids safe. And I also wanna keep kids safe, and that's why I'm for sex education. 

Katie: Exactly. 

Jaclyn: But, but you have to make somebody who's coming in that hot feel, like, heard first before they can hear you.

But I would say our number one most effective message, and we've done a bunch of research on how to talk about this issue, um, effectively, and the number one message that succeeds across the board and also moves self-identified conservatives 13 points compared to just hearing opposition messaging, which is always about grooming and indoctrination and all of that stuff, is about anti-bullying.

So sex education has been found to reduce bullying in schools. It reduces perpetration and victimization. And not only that, it increases bystander participation, so it increases the odds kids will stick up for each other if they see somebody being targeted. And because of that, and because it overall reduces violence and abuse and stress in schools, it increases academic performance.

And like, we all want that for kids. Even that person who's concerned about grooming wants that for kids. 

Katie: Yes. Haven't you all done research that shows that the vast majority of Americans, like, actually agree with what you're doing? Like, regardless of party ID, regardless of where you might fall on the ideological spectrum. 

Can you talk some about that? Because I think that there could be people who, like, "Of course, I agree with everything you're saying, but maybe I'm not sure about talking about this in mixed company 'cause maybe people will disagree with me." Like, can you level set for us? Because I think people are surprised when they hear how much agreement there is on this issue.

Jaclyn: I have to tell you, our research even blew my mind. And this is polling that we did twice because I didn't quite believe it the first time, and I wanted to be sure it was real. Um, so we did this polling twice this year with two different pollsters, so these are really solid numbers. And I was not surprised to find that supermajorities of people support sex education in schools.

That has been consistently true over many years of polling, not just from us. Planned Parenthood has polled on this. Um, we found that 75% of Americans want sex ed in schools, period, full stop. Um, that holds up across geographic diversity, across class, across race, across- 

Katie: Religion ... 

Jaclyn: Religion. We found that over half of people who identify as born again support sex ed in schools.

And the thing that blew my mind and that made us do the polling twice is that we tested, the first time, a split... So we talked about some of the things that are contained in sex education, like education on healthy relationships and boundaries and consent, things we know that people, once they know that's what we're talking about, then they support it. So we wanted to make sure people understood what we meant by sex education. And then half of the people got that question, do you support or oppose this in schools? And then the other half, um, we explicitly said that it was inclusive and affirming of transgender students. 

Katie: Mm-hmm. 

Jaclyn: And that does not decrease support for sex education in this country, not in any way that's statistically significant.

Uh, it was 72% instead of 75%. Still a huge supermajority of Americans, and again, across all those demographics. A majority of people who get their news from Fox News support trans-inclusive sex ed in schools, right? A majority of people, again, who identify as born again Christians, all kinds of demographics that you would not expect.

This is just not a controversial issue. It is a lie. It's actually, it's pro- it's right-wing propaganda that this is a controversial issue. 

Katie: Well, it's a, it's a right-wing propaganda lie that is bought into by the establishment political class across parties. 

Jaclyn: 100%, and I would like them to stop.

Katie: Same.

Jaclyn: Right now, when it comes to sex ed, and also when it comes to trans kids in schools, what our data really clearly show... 'Cause the second time we also asked questions to sort of flesh out the picture about whether schools, um, should be welcoming for trans students, and also should they protect trans students from discrimination, huge majorities for those things also.

This isn't, none of these are controversial issues to Americans. They're just not. And what's happening right now is, like, there's a one-way culture war happening, right? Like, the right is fighting a culture war up and down the ballot from school boards to Congress, right? And the left is not showing up for the culture war, right? Or the center or, or, you know, moderates, right? Like, the right is fighting this culture war and, and we're just ceding the ground to them, but actually there are so many more of us than there are of them. 

If we all just said, "No, this is ridiculous. Like, of course we're not teaching them any of that, you weird perv." Like... “Stand aside. We're the majority.” 

Katie: I support that talking point. 

Jaclyn: Like, you could see change on sex education in every state, every school district in this country. If we all, if the, if everyone who supported it just stood up and said it with their whole chest, you would see a lot of things change, like, overnight.

LaFonda: Yeah. 

Jenny: And this polling really just, like, emphasizes, like, Red Wine & Blue's mission of just getting straight to the issue. Don't talk parties. Let's just talk issues. And when you talk about issues and understandings about things, people might start voting a different way. But you find that common ground.

And so when you take the politics out of it and you're just talking about people, I mean, it's one of the things I love the most about Red Wine & Blue. Even though we are, we are so, our country is so divided that it's really obvious where we land.

Katie: But that's because our politics is being driven in this top-down way- 

Jenny: Exactly!

Katie: - where, you know, you have, like, the propaganda and then, like, the political class accepting this debate on their terms, you know? Like, we’ve seen Democratic campaigns at the federal level scared to utter the word transgender, probably even comprehensive sex ed, because they have bought into the lie from the right that these are extremist positions to take. Which you all have shown actually that the majority of Americans, the majority of people who voted for Trump, the majority of born-again Christians, actually all majorities agree that this is, like, non-controversial just to be, like, inclusive of all kids, including trans kids, in school. Like, people don't want to bully any kid. 

Jaclyn: No!

Katie: And to me, that's like, to me, the case that you all are making is why it's so important to have our politics come from the ground up, to have it be rooted in the reality of people's values and how they actually feel about these issues, instead of the people who are profiting off of our politics ginning up these culture war debates that actually aren't a debate at all. They are, you know, manufactured by people who are trying to undermine public education, right? 

Jaclyn: Yes, absolutely true. Yes. 

Katie: We just need to be like, "No, we're not doing that. That's, like, not what most people believe at all. Unsubscribe," right? 

Jaclyn: Unsubscribe! Be gone! Oh, Katie, I just want an unsubscribe button for so many things.

Katie: So many things. 

Jaclyn: Yeah, this is a hugely bipartisan issue. Or beyond bipartisan, independents, people who aren't politically engaged, like, literally everybody. Yeah. 

Katie: Okay, and that helps me lose my shit less because when things are, you know, we're having it on voting rights now, we're having it on so many things, you know, like, from the top down, from literally the top, the US Supreme Court issuing these decisions that are so against the will of the majority of the people. And it, this conversation is helping me because it's on these issues that we're told are so controversial, like, they're just not, you know? 

And so the work that we need to do again and again and again is to ground ourselves in our own humanity and the humanity of others, and the, you know, the, that, that's where we stand as the majority, and not letting this top-down politics...

like, not buying into the lie, you know? I'm just not sure at the end of the day we're as divided as everybody says. We agree on these issues sometimes 70/30, 80/20, you know, and then, like, partisan politics gets involved, and we'll barely win or barely lose by one vote, you know? But if we're really just having a conversation about the issues and about the values, that's not where we are.

Jenny: Yeah. And knowing that so many people agree with us makes it easier to stand up and say what we thought was a hard thing or a scary thing to say, and actually EducateUS has made it really easy to take that first step. 

Katie: Okay, talk to us about that. So if listeners are hearing about all this and they wanna fight for comprehensive, good, age-appropriate sex education that is gonna make them, their kids safer from bullying in their own school district, like, what do they do? 

Jenny: They, I mean, they, they need to get in touch with their school board members and tell them that this is important to them. And if you go to educateusaction.org/schoolboard, there's a really simple form. So simple. Name, address, email. That will send an email to EducateUS, and we will find your school board members and send them some information, and copy you on it so you can start to have that conversation with your school board.

And you know what? You don't, you don't have to reply if that scares you. Your school board member now has information and knows that this is important to you. 

Katie: That's great. You're making it easy and you're providing good information. That's so beautiful. 

Jenny: Easy action helps me not lose my shit. 

Katie: Yes. 

LaFonda: Yeah, it does.

Katie: I love it. I have loved this conversation. I'm thinking about, Jaclyn, how you called comprehensive sex education lifelong learning, and I feel like we have actively engaged in that in this conversation. You know, our lifelong learning will continue. I think that this is our responsibility as women, and there's so much we can do to advocate to our own school boards, and Educate Us has made it easy, y'all.

So Jaclyn, Jenny, thanks so much for joining us today, and keep up the good work, and please keep working with us. 

Jaclyn: Yes. We love it. 

Jenny: Thanks, guys!