School Board Madness

Today’s episode of the pod is a little different... Amanda Weinstein, Rachel Vindman, and guest host Katie Paris focus on real suburban moms who have been attending school board meetings in their communities. Katie discusses the “Read In” that Red Wine and Blue recently organized at the Ohio Board of Education, while Amanda and Rachel share their frustrations about the right wing’s latest “boogeymen” to scare suburban moms.

Then we brought on not one, not two, but four suburban moms who have been stepping up and getting involved in their local school board meetings. Moms Marla, Rachel, Kelly and Meredith tell us all about how they didn’t give in to the fear-mongering of the anti-mask crowd. Instead, they organized, showed up early (like moms!), and spoke out to protect their kids and the kids in their communities.

Finally, Amanda, Jasmine and Rachel raise a glass to vaccines for kids, getting together with other moms for Red Wine and Blue’s “Read In,” and going to therapy in this episode’s “Toast to Joy.”

Do you feel like you could use some support figuring out how to respond to anti-mask, anti-vax, or anti-CRT messaging in your community? We invite you to sign up for one of our Troublemaker Trainings! They’re fun events where you can meet other women who are facing this stuff too and learn strategies to stand up for the kids in your community. 

For a transcript of this episode, please email theswppod@redwine.blue.

For a transcript of this episode, please email comms@redwine.blue.

You can learn more about us at www.redwine.blue or follow us on social media!

Twitter: @TheSWPpod and @RedWineBlueUSA

Instagram: @RedWineBlueUSA

Facebook: @RedWineBlueUSA

YouTube: @RedWineBlueUSA

Transcript

Amanda Weinstein: Hi, everyone. Thanks for listening. I'm Amanda Weinstein.

Rachel Vindman: I'm Rachel Vindman.

Katie Paris: And I'm Katie Paris, filling in for Jasmine Clark.

Amanda: And you're listening to the Suburban Women Problem. Welcome back everyone! So, I think we've all seen the videos of enraged and unhinged people who have been showing up at school board meetings to protest mask mandates in schools and to protest Critical Race Theory, which of course isn't actually being taught in school. Unmasked parents, although a lot of them aren't even parents with kids in the school district, have been swarming meetings, yelling and booing. 

First, let me say, I don't think this works with a lot of moms I know because you know what it looks like to me? A tantrum. And do you know who doesn't give into this? Moms.

These people go viral because of the insanity of it all. But what the media hasn't been showing is the concerned parents. Parents who actually have kids in these school districts. So this week we're doing something a little different. Instead of having just one everyday mom on the podcast, we're interviewing four different suburban women who have been standing up against bullies in their local school board meetings.

These are the real concerned parents. Ooh. When I said that, I just thought it sounds like a really good reality show, like a Real House Wives spin-off, but it's like the Real Concerned Parents of like Shaker Heights, or wherever it is.

Katie: That's a reality TV show I would actually watch: The Real Concerned Parents of Suburban America.

Amanda: So let's debunk this idea that these protests are these organic outcries by concerned parents.

Katie: You know, I think it's important to do this because it can feel scary and intimidating. And “wow where are all of these people coming from?” What we've got to do is pull back the curtain a little bit here. And honestly I hate this because how manufactured this all is? And it makes it awfully hard to have an honest conversation when what's going on is being… just funded by a political movement on one side.

So these right wing protesters, you know, unfortunately it looks organic maybe on a YouTube video, but oftentimes these are people who are posing as parents (local) in the school district. They do not live there. What's going on is that there's actually a well-funded, organized right wing movement. That is sometimes paying these folks.

Media Matters did a study of all of the parents who had appeared as quote on quote “enraged parents.” Like that is how they would be identified on the screen. And it turns out every single one of these enraged parents was either a paid Republican party consultant or lobbyist, but yet none of that was disclosed.

So we've sort of had one boogeyman after another, here. It started with transgender kids in sports. Then we had Critical Race Theory. Now it's the anti-mask movement. And basically all of these are boogeyman. I mean, you can, and this is just the most recent ones. I mean, I think of immigrant caravans, right? From months back. It's just the latest boogeyman that is being used.

And this is well-funded. I mean, there's Heritage Foundation, Manhattan Institute. These are right-wing think tanks out of Washington, DC that are devoting millions of dollars towards pushing these narratives.

Rachel, I know that you've been watching some of these developments pretty closely. In terms of the right wing's efforts to use these boogeyman to scare suburban moms, like any of the ones, you know?

Rachel: You know, because what’s very interesting is about five years ago, Alex and I had a friend in the military who did a fellowship at the Heritage Foundation. These are long-term strategies, guys. And I think that's, that's what we need to see. As you mentioned, you know, Steve Bannon, this is their ploy to kind of win back the suburbs and we see them hitting these things. I loved your analogy about tantrums. You know, I mean, because in Loudoun county, I think of like this image I saw of the school board meeting. And there was this man who was like… made himself stiff and rigid so that they couldn't carry him out.

“I'm like, what are you, three? I mean, where did you learn this tactic from? Like watching the toddlers at Walmart?”

Amanda: Totally.

Rachel: And it's… but it is what it is. But I wanted to say one thing. In my county, Prince William County, Virginia, there was a meeting and they were like, “We know where this is going.” There are people showing up. They didn't like it. They didn't want it. So they canceled the meeting, but there was stuff on the agenda that didn't get discussed. Things that matter, things that are important for my child, who hasn't had a substitute all year, because they don't pay substitutes enough and they can't afford them.

So, you know, things that were going to be discussed, things they were going to talk about was like, paying more money to substitutes and doing things. But that didn't get discussed because the whole meeting got disrupted because of something fake. They have the ability to hijack this and prevent real things being done. And our children are being harmed. So it's not just the harm they're doing by the misinformation. There's other harm from intimidation. And, um, just, you know, taking the focus off the actual work.

Katie: Both of you were Republicans. Rachel, you more recently, Amanda, you were raised in a very conservative, evangelical Republican family. We –– you are in a very different place today. Steve Bannon and others have clearly announced that each of these strategies, each of these boogeyman, they are a clear strategy to try to win back suburban moms. Women who used to be with them, be with the Republican party, have found their way to a very different place today.

You all represent these women. When you hear that there's this… their explicit strategy is to do that, how does that make you feel? And do you think that it is best to ignore the tantrum or is there a better way here?

Amanda: Honestly, it makes me nervous and it makes me nervous because a lot of times women get ignored I think in politics. And when our biggest concerns get ignored… And our biggest concerns tend to be our children, and our children's education. So if we don't hear enough people talking about it and we do hear, say Steve Bannon, or someone saying, “Hey, I'm the party of family values and your children. And I care about them.”

I worry that that could resonate with some women if they don't hear us say, “let's talk about the real issues of our family.” So we can't ignore it, but we want to be talking about the real issues. It's all of this other stuff that Rachel mentioned, right. It’s paying our teachers well, it's making sure our teachers don't have to have two jobs and to pay for their own school supplies.

It's making sure they have kids who are prepared for kindergarten by having universal pre-K. Like, these are all the things that we should be talking about if we do have –– want to face all these issues that our children, and our children's schools, are facing.

Rachel: I don't find it very compelling for me personally, but I think that's one of the important things about this podcast, is to give you the tools to go back and talk to your friends. If you have friends who just don't have the time to be informed, and it's overwhelming to like get plugged in and try to get up to speed for them. And I, I'm not faulting them. Um, I appreciate that point of view and that was me, but maybe not too long ago.

I  get a lot of pushback on. When I post this, like, “Oh, stop it. These people just want to be famous and you're making them famous. So I talking about them.” I posted because you need to know the crazy that's out there because a lot of these people, I think they're true believers. So I don't think they're just looking to be like famous in a clip on YouTube.

I think they actually believe this stuff and that is motivating them to go out and fight. So we need to use what motivates us to go out and fight. Also, we…

Amanda: It needs to be countered. If nobody counters it, they're the loudest voices.

Rachel: That's exactly right. And I, that's why I'm so excited about the people we're talking about because they have been… including Katie, our guest host today, um, you know, have used that and gone up and just spoken the truth

And it won't make it into a clip probably on Twitter, although Katie did make it. But it just, you know, this is a real macro level and you have the ability to change things, whether or not it makes it on a YouTube clip, but I know, you know, we're not interested in that.

We're actually interested in meaningful change, not performative politics.

Katie: Yeah. Yes. I witnessed that. I agree, you know, I have had the pure pleasure in the last couple of weeks of attending some of these school board meetings and also just really trying to counter the vitriol we're seeing with something that feels a whole lot different. What I love about showing up as moms at a school board meeting is that we are not there to yell back.

We are there to be organized. Get there early, be polite, be respectful and present truly an alternative. That contrast was especially on display when some of us with Red Wine and Blue put together an event just in the last few days at the Ohio Board of Education, because some of these CRT protestors announced that they were going to be protesting the state school board members because they passed a –– wait for it, it might sound scary –– a resolution condemning racism and supporting equity in schools.

And so somehow that's become very controversial. So they wanted to protest this. They also want the state legislature to pass bills banning Critical Race Theory being taught ––  again, not actually being taught in our K through 12 schools.

So we decided to show up and we had a read-in the same time that they were yelling and shouting, in some cases, shoving people around. We were about 50 moms. We brought our books. Anti-racist books. Pick your favorite, there's a lot of good ones. And we showed up, and we read and just presented that total, like mom alternative.

And it was awesome. And it was so inspiring to be a part of, and when we shared it out in the red wine and blue community, you know, over 200,000 women on Facebook, tens of thousands, more on other platforms, there was just such a sense of solidarity of people saying yes, that, and we have seen. You know, within the… our communities online, really that sense of solidarity across the board, we have had teachers share about their experiences.

There was one teacher, I believe a middle school teacher, Maria in our group, who shared about being challenged at a back to school meeting by a parent about her reading lessons. Because it included many diverse authors. And she said that the parents…

Rachel: How scandalous!

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. The  parent accused her of saying “the American voice is not represented.”

And what did she mean by the American voice? It was because only one of the several books she had presented and was excited about reading with her class that year was by a white author. This teacher came to our group and shared her story of how she stood up to that. And it was the most popular story shared in our group in the last 10 days or so, just tens of thousands of women showing their support in the group.

So we've got to share our stories and support each other that way.

Amanda: And I love that it's supporting teachers. And I think that feels authentic to a lot of women because we know how hard our teachers work, how much they have done for our own students, and also how poorly they are paid. And so standing up to support our teachers –– and it's not saying that teachers are perfect, right? We can have these discussions about our schools, about teachers, but we can do it in a way that also supports the really good work they're doing.

Katie: And I think that it’s authentic to a lot of women. So the truth really is that we are not powerless. There are women who are showing the support for our teachers.

There are women who have taken part in these school board meetings and said, I'm not going to be afraid. I'm going to show up. They're organizing. And many of them are even running for office. Uh, running for school board saying that there need to be voices like mine in leadership. So I wanted to talk to two of those moms who have been getting involved and been activated, um, by this, and they're really stepping up in their community.

So I want to introduce Marla and Rachel to moms in suburban Ohio, not far from me, who I had the pleasure of attending a school board meeting with actually pretty recently. Hey, Marla!

Marla: Hi, how are you?

Katie: Hey, Rachel. Thanks for being here. You guys, I'm excited to do this. Because the last time I saw both of you… it was at a school board meeting there in West Geauga. And, wow, was that pretty exciting? And we just wanted to talk about what that whole experience was. I think that you all's experience could actually… a lot of other moms could learn from it because so many parents are facing this. I was curious, Rachel, was this the first time that… was this your first time attending a school board meeting, or was this something that you had done before. And was it what you were expecting?

Rachel: So essentially these were my first few board meetings. I went to one… so the time before last, I went to the one where it was… all of the speakers were from the anti-mask side. So we didn't… I was prepared to speak at that first one, but I didn't have an opportunity.

So I came ready the second time and was at the front of the line and hustled in there and got the first speaking slot.

Katie: So what was it? Like at the first one where it was all anti-maskers, was that what you expected? What was the feeling?

Rachel: So I showed up because I expected it to be a lot of anti-mask people.

And it was intense. It was a lot of signs and t-shirts, and when we first walked up to the board and we were waiting and milling about outside, the first words I heard were, “the Nazis are here,” meaning the people that want masks. So that was a quick introduction to what was to be expected inside.

And, yeah, it was a lot of yelling, a lot of inappropriate behavior. And then at the end of the meeting, people standing up shouting, pointing fingers at the board, threatening to come picket at their house and things like that.

So Marla, you heard about what… were you at that board meeting as well, or you had heard about what happened? How did you all decide to handle the next board meeting?

Marla: So Rachel and I hadn't even met at that point. I am in a different school district than she is –– a neighboring school district. But I had started attending our districts meetings virtually over the summer. And I remember I was on vacation in new England where the vaccination rate is high and people were wearing masks.

And I was attending the meeting and seeing these people talk. And I literally threw my phone across the room in front of my in-laws and they were like, “what's going on?” And I just, I couldn't stand for what was being said. So I went to the subsequent meeting for my school districts, sort of had a similar experience to Rachel.

I don't think it was quite as tenuous at ours, but it was still kind of scary. And that's when I decided, okay, I have to help, you know, people like her who are neighbors, where I'm not taking up a speaking slot, but I'm helping organize, um, moms in particular to go to these meetings because it's really just important to show up.

Katie: So how did you all go about this? Rachel? I have to ask you, I understand that you attended one of Red Wine and Blue’s, Troublemaker Trainings. Did that help you feel equipped to tackle these school boards?

Rachel: I was super impressed with the troublemaker training. And I think it was so great to sort of hear other… just moms.

You know, I'm not a political person, I'm not a, you know, epidemiologist, but I heard other moms saying, “this is what I did. This is how I organized. This is, you know, how we approached it.” And I thought, well, if no one else is going to do it, then I will. And so I made sort of a little sub Facebook group for parents in West Geauga and tried to bring people together and get them to attend the meetings with me.

And, so yeah, I think the Troublemaker Training just showed me that anybody can do it. And if not, you who? You know?

Katie: Exactly. And there's so much we can learn from each other's experiences. So, for everybody listening, because I know you all need to get involved, want to get involved, in the show notes, we'll have a way to sign up for one of those Troublemaker Trainings. And who knows, maybe you'll meet Marla or Rachel face-to-face and they can give you all the tips. But I… Marla I think that you got so organized in terms of lining up the moms.

Tell us, if someone else wants to figure out–– they're concerned about protecting the mask mandate for their schools, or they are still fighting for one. We know the science is clear the data's clear. The evidence is clear in school districts that have the mask mandates. They're the ones who are staying in school because they're not getting the COVID cases. Okay. So we know that data is there, but. It's not enough just to, you know, have a few people go to the school board meeting and make sure that they've got their facts in hand.

What are all the ways that you learned to effectively organize these things?

Marla: Right. So I think the first thing that you have to do is if you have kids, you take that feeling that’s deep down in your gut of how much you love those children. And you use that to power yourself ahead. It is such a strong feeling.

We all want the best for our kids and we're willing to do whatever it takes. So that's where I started. Then I started reaching out to people who are in like-minded groups that I'm in, who are in my school district, and in neighbors, neighboring school districts, like Rachel's and think, “What is it that we need to do?”

We can just show up, but it would be better if we had a plan. So for example, I had a box of N95 masks. I carried them around with me and I made sure that all my people who were there were protected. “You want an N95? You want an N95? Here.” I was handing them out. We had somebody who was a mom make cloth masks to put over top of those N95 that said, “keep schools open.”

We chose a slogan that who can argue with that. Even if you think that the vaccine is fake or COVID is fake. You want your kids in school, you don't want them home. Nobody wants to do virtual learning. So how can you argue with that? We had matching masks…

Katie: It really helps to have the crafty mom in your social circle. I mean, there is. A role here.

Marla: That's not me! But find someone who is, because somebody might not be willing to speak at the meeting, but they might have expertise in crafting. So that's their contribution. And then I will say one, when you get to these meetings, people are really parading around with their cars and their trucks with these flags. And it can be really intimidating. I mean, Rachel, that's what happened at West G. Remember the person had the “fake vaccine cards here” on little walker. I was, it was very strange. We turned our back to them. We did not engage with them. You don't have to be this mom who is like really complaining or really forceful.

I sort of call myself the “Marcia Brady troublemaker” because I'm one of those people who crosses in the crosswalk every time. So what does that look like? I came up with a bunch of ideas that were proactive. Again, that the other side couldn't argue with. And we all talked about those things instead, they're related to COVID, but we talked about outdoor eating and dining spaces. Things like that, that just kind of put masks on the back burner and they all left defeated.

Katie: It was incredible to see. It really did feel like the anti-mask crowd. Just, I mean, as soon as the… first of all, you all dominated all of the speaking spots, because like a mom showed up like an hour early for the thing so positive. It was, it was just incredibly deflating for them. Exactly. And Rachel I was really excited too, because there was national media coverage.

And I think it was so important for your school district, being in the national spotlight, for it not to just be one side. If you all had not been there, it would have, once again, we would have had another media story about how these anti masking parents are so mad at the school board. Instead, it was, yeah, there's some of those, but there's a whole lot of these parents who really care about keeping their kids safe and keeping schools open.

So, Rachel, what was that like for you to stand in the middle of a parking lot, where I believe that there was a big pickup truck circling around us with a Trump 2020 sign, as if that, I mean, jeez, that's still going on. Right. And you're being interviewed by national TV. Was that a first? How did that feel? Because you didn't look that nervous.

Rachel: Haha, I guess I'm a good actress because I was… it's completely out of my wheelhouse. I'm not a public speaker. I am not a TV person. But like Marla said, when it comes to your kids and protecting your kids, I'll do whatever I can to protect my kids. And if that means stepping out of my comfort zone and getting out there and making sure that our side is well-represented and that we show support for our school board, then that's what I'll do.

Katie: All right. So my big takeaway from this, and each time you all said it, I just got chills inside because it just rings so true. It's like channel that inner mom affair. That is something that we all can do, and it will lead you astray. Thank you guys so much for fighting for the right thing and showing how the majority of parents really feel and for really being a model for so many other moms who want to do justice too. You guys rock. 

Rachel: Thank you so much for having us. I love the podcast.

Katie: Thanks Rachel. Thanks Marla.

Amanda: That was so great talking to Rachel and Marla. I loved how you… how they like put this picture of really, you have a lot of men trying to intimidate a lot of women.

And I think that's the point. Where you have men trying to intimidate women, trying to quiet their voices. And I think that's really behind a whole lot of this is the misogyny.” Let me tell you how to do things, moms.” “Let me tell you how to do things, teachers” –– who are mostly women. “I know you have the training and expertise, but let me mansplain your whole job to you right now.”

Right? That's kind of the point of what they're doing. So I loved hearing this, but I love that they stood up to it. They're like, “I see what you're doing.”

Rachel: And can I just say I'm really tired in all these situations of men telling me what my problems are. I know what my problems are. And there are a lot of them.

So I don't need you to tell me what your problems are. And then tell me how to fix my problems. Because you're not right about either one. I know where their problems are and I know how to fix them. And what I need you to do is listen to me because I will tell you what I need you to do to fix the problems that I have, because most of them are policy related.

And I already have the answers. I just need you to listen.

Katie: Amen sister. So when we come back, we'll have two more moms who have been fighting for their kids at their local school board meetings. So stick around for their stories after the break.

BREAK

Katie: Welcome back everyone. It was so great to hear Rachel and Marla's stories. And we're so excited to have even more moms on the show now to talk about their experiences. So now we'd like to welcome Kelly, a mom from suburban Minnesota, who has been active recently in our community to the podcast. Welcome Kelly.

Kelly: Thanks for having me.

Amanda: So Kelly, you've been going to school board meetings. Can you tell us when you walked into your first school board meeting, what… was it everything you were expecting? What, what happened?

Kelly: I was completely unprepared for what I walked into. We are a top ranked school district. So frankly, they were doing a great job and I hadn't been very engaged up until we found out just a few days before school that they wouldn't be requiring masks.

So I got notified from a friend that there was a meeting about an hour before the meeting was going to take place. And I quickly, I was out running errands. I was dictating over my car speaker into my notes to try to pull together some things that I wanted to say and walked in just as the meeting was starting and there was probably 200 unmasked parents crowded into a small room with some overflow in the gym. 

Amanda: Wow, so was there a lot of vitreous? First let me say… so same with my school district, top ranked, we had masks all last year, so I kind of… just kind of, I guess, a little bit naive.

It was like, “oh, sure. We'll have masks.” We did not. What was it like with the anti maskers filling up that room? What were some of the things that were were doing and saying? 

Kelly: First of all, I was worried about a super spreader event happening at that moment. And second of all, there wasn't a lot of decorum and I was terrified, pick it up there, but I thought to myself, “the reason I went there was I can only control what I can control, but I can control my involvement and I can control those three minutes, but I got to stand up and speak my mind.”

We also made changes to recommend that more students and teachers are being heard from. And so I I've seen just the decorum and the meetings improve based on the feedback we're giving to the school board. It's uplifting and it helps you make the decision to go back again and keep pushing for what's important to your, for your family and community.

Amanda: And I love that you're asking for teachers and students, because I think among the most impactful is a real concerned parent. Who's not their grandstanding, but really concerned about their students, but even slightly more impactful than that I think is students right hearing from students that like, “We're going to mask us, not a big deal, right? Keeping each other safe is a big deal.”

And I think when I have seen students. It has just it. And honestly it quiets everyone down on both sides where you're like, “this means something just a little bit more than even those real concerned parents who are not they're grandstanding.” I love that idea.

Kelly: And at the last meeting we had two seniors stand up and speak together and they said, “We are representing the senior class. We are in the student government. We are here to represent. We want our senior year and we want to remain in person. So please do everything you can to help us stay healthy and safe. And we need to keep wearing masks.” And hearing those kids, you know, being willing to put their name behind what they're saying and represent their classes was super impactful.

Amanda: I love that. The kids are all right. And as much as I worry about what our kids are learning from the poor decorum they've seen in other meetings from other adults, hearing that kids in your district have stood up, which takes bravery, but done it in a very respectful way, really just praise to all the parents in your district who are raising these great children and praise to the educators who, right, they're teaching these kids every day in class, the respect to show to each other. And it is amazing to see it show up in this.

Kelly. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

Kelly: Yes, thank you so much for having me and thanks for the work that you're doing to help empower more and more parents.

Amanda: Thank you.

Kelly: I'm going again tonight. We've got another one tonight.

Amanda: Me too, mee too! Your district sounds exactly like mine. Everyone says like, “we have a school board meeting Tuesday night” and I’m like, “Hey, me too, me too!”

Rachel: Amanda, thank you for talking to Kelly. That was just super inspiring also. I mean, 30 minutes or an hour’s notice to go to a school board meeting where you know, you're going to be attacked, but you show up anyway because you're a mom and that's what we do. We get things done.

Now we are going to talk to Meredith. Meredith is a mom from the suburbs of Ohio. Welcome Meredith.

Meredith: Hi!

Rachel: So hi, thanks for joining us. You have an immunocompromised child. So masking is obviously, you know, extra important to you. Could you tell us a little bit about your children and why in-person learning with masks is so important.

Mereith: Yeah, sure. So my daughter is not only immunocompromised, she also was born with one lung. And she has… so she's one lung and a tiny airway and an immune deficiency. She's been on a ventilator three or four times. She’s coded twice. So for us, respiratory infections are a really big deal.

Rachel: Sure.

Meredith: But at the same time, I know there's an argument that like, “maybe I should just keep her home if she is such a high risk,” but she also has a genetic condition that has delays. So she has a speech delay and a gross motor delay. And so she receives services at school that we can not replicate at home. And my other son, I have two other sons, but one of them has autism and he receives tons of services through the school. And again, those are things that can't be replicated at home.

In our district, without masks, 20% of the middle school was in quarantine. We need schools to be open, and the way to do that as masks.

Rachel: Yeah. I love your story because I love your approach. You reached out directly to one of the school board members.

Meredith: Yeah. So I reached out to my school board members. First. I sent them all an email.

And I didn't receive an email back. So then I started calling them. I called all of the school board members and the superintendent and left them voicemails. And one of them called me back and he said, “You know, the reason to be honest, that I didn't email you back or call you until this point is because I didn't know what to say to you. The arguments that you were making, my canned response, or my like formed email, that I've been sending to everybody who's promised didn't apply to you because you were making different arguments.” And he spent 25 minutes on the phone with me going through all of his concerns and listening to my concerns and, you know, his perspective was, “You know, look, I'm a school board member. It is not my role to make medical decisions on behalf of the people in our school districts. Like I'm not equipped to do that.”

And my response was like, “You're right. They're not. And that's why we need to turn to the experts. Like all of the doctors and the pediatricians in Ohio who signed a letter and all the hospitals and children's hospitals in Ohio who signed this open letter, begging school districts to put mask mandates in place. Like you're right. You're not equipped for that. So let's listen to the people who are.

And so at the very end of the conversation he said, “I think you changed my mind. Like that's how I'm going to vote at the school board meeting.” And he did, he was the one who gave the decision and in his decision, he said all the things that he talked to me about.

Like, “I don't feel like this is my job to make medical decisions. I don't feel equipped to this, but at the end of the day, we need to keep kids in school and masks are the way to do that.”

Rachel: Hmm. I love that such a success story for communication, for talking to people, not, you know, doing a performance with signs and flags and putting people down and criticizing them, but just talking to people. And your persistence is also admirable that you continued to reach out, but kept your cool, and wanted someone just to listen to you.

And when you found someone to listen, It made a difference. So in addition to the school board member, you changed his mind, but you also had a meaningful conversation with a anti-mask mom. So how did that go?

Meredith: Yeah, so I was interviewed by Nightline on our perspective for masks in school and they did a feature on my kids and my family.

And as part of that, the camera crew asked, “Hey, can we film your kids walking home from school?” And so I didn't think anything about it. I said, sure, that's fine. And so there were some people who were really, really angry with me. And there was a mom in particular who came up to me and very angrily said, “You know, this, isn't how we do things here. And if this is how you're going to behave, you need to go back where you came from.”

We'd just moved to the district and I apologized, but I left that interaction, sick to my stomach. So I called… or I sent her a message over Facebook and just said, “You know what? I understand why you're upset and just walk through my perspective. And my perspective is really that my approach to masks is this is what Jesus calls us to do is to love others more than ourselves. And, you know, he left the 99 sheep to go care for the one. So even if the only high-risk kids are really at risk for being severely ill, like we need to care for them and be willing to sacrifice our own personal comfort for them.”

So, and she listened to all of that and she said, “You know what? I'll back you up. I don't agree with you. But if my side takes the issue with your interview or takes issue with how you're handling it, I'll back you up.”

Rachel: Wow. I, um, that's a great story. And you're definitely a good example of just continuing to keep that dialogue open because it's so important. You know, thank you just mom to mom that you're willing to do that for your children now.

Not only do I admire you, but you know, I think what you've done is helpful, not only to your children, but to others as well. And you're setting a great example to have that dialogue and buy it for our children. Even if people, we think that they're not going to be receptive, it doesn't hurt to try and to do it in a civil way and, you know, sort of recognize that humanity and the other person and appeal to that.

So thank you for joining us. Thank you for telling your story and. For what you're doing for your children and for others as well.

Well thank you for having me.

Rachel: Bye! 

Amanda: Rachel, I loved hearing your talk with Meredith. I love how she talks about changing people's minds. That is the best feeling. Wasn't that great?

And we know that feeling when you like, you know, you just change someone's mind. You're like, “ahhhhh!”

Katie: I feel like they're the magic words, right? When she said, “and he said, I think you've changed my mind.” It just felt like the words that, you know, people don't even believe it can happen anymore. Keep hanging out on the Suburban Women Problem, people. This is where it's at. This is where the magic happens.

Rachel: You know, it's great. You know, a little while ago, a week or so ago, my husband wrote an op-ed and he received a lot of, “You changed my mind on something.” And it was, you know, he, he was just sharing his thoughts, of his perspective and not necessarily wanting to change people's minds, but I was so surprised even if like five or six people say it, because honestly you just, you don't even think about that these days actually changing people's minds.

Of just having a logical argument. Like it seems like nothing is based in logic anymore. So a logical argument is pointless because that's not… people are so into their feelings, and their sides, and their corners, and they don't want to listen. It's not true. No people haven't fundamentally changed and you have to keep trying.

Amanda: And I love that she was talking about these moms who thought differently coming together and having this real moment and this real conversation. Because I do think that there's something that women can do when we talk to each other that right. This wasn't the Trumper guy, trying to intimidate a woman.

These were two women talking to moms, right? And we moms have been pitted against each other since the dawn of all ages, right. With stay-at-home moms or working moms or whatever. Right. We know how to come together because we have figured out how to come together when people want to separate us for all eternity. So I love that story of two women cutting through all the BS and getting down to, can we talk about what the real issues are?

Rachel: These are moms getting it done. And I think just so inspirational to see the impact that people can have when they cut away the BS, as you said, and they just work for what's important to them. And it doesn't have to be on a national stage –– 

Amanda: Or doing something insane!

Rachel: No, no, it doesn't have to be stupid, you know, performative. It doesn't. It just has to be meaningful because I don't have time to be performative. I only have time to get it done in the most efficient way possible.

Amanda: 100%.

Katie: I could talk to these moms all day.

Amanda: And I love that we are lifting up their voices, right. And these are the voices we need to lift up, not the insane viral, crazy dude ranting.

Rachel: If any men want to tell me how to get all my laundry done, and how to get it folded and put away. I mean, that… If you must solve my problem, then solve that problem. But anything else, until you can give me something actual meaningful, then sit down like many times, just sit down.

Amanda: On that note. I think we need to Toast to Joy.

Katie: We do. We need it. Yes.

Rachel: Yes. My Toast to Joy is to the end kind of being in sight with the vaccine. At this point I might've mentioned this, right, last week. I'm not kidding, but I'm so excited about it. My daughter had an appointment and they told me like, “you know, be prepared in a reasonable amount of time, you know, to get this vaccine.”

And I just, my daughter left that appointment. Talking about science and vaccines and the miracle of it. And it made my heart so happy that even she understands how great this is. So I'm going to celebrate that.

Amanda: I love that. Because if you really hate the mask mandate, then you should love those vaccines.

Katie: Give it to me. Yeah. My six-year-old is pumped too. I mean, this is, this is going to be a great day when it comes and you're right.

Rachel: Katie, what is your toast to joy this week?

Katie: You know, it has to be several days ago showing up in the middle of Ohio meeting so many women who I had texted with. I have Facebook Messaged with. I had been in the comments with planning events and sharing advice for school board meetings and dealing with all this, but to get together and meet in person with women for this read-in, where we were reading our anti-racist books and just presenting this mom alternative to the temper tantrum.

It was so awesome. So we all were, it was… we felt inspired by each other. And you know, it was pouring down rain for a good part of it. But these moms, a couple brought their tents, you know, like the tailgating tent or the tent that, you know, you could have outside and, you know, have a bake sale or something, if the weather's not right.

Rachel: Swim meets…

Katie: Yes. Yes. So we had the tents up on the sidewalk, lots of umbrellas. And I don't know, something about that just made it all the more, that sense of solidarity. Like the rain is not going to stop us. The yelling is not going to stop us. We are here. And it made a huge difference, you know, in the media coverage and more than anything, it just put wind in our sails.

Amanda: Okay. Just say, I love the prepared moms out there because I am not one of them. I'm the mom. Who's like, “Oh, my kid had an accident and I don't have extra pants, but you do.”

Katie: Yes! Yes!

Amanda: I love those prepared moms. They're my favorite.

Katie: I love them. I got to bee sting at the zoo with my kids. And like, of course had nothing, you know, like with me and it, like, there was a mom, right, at the next table next to us, and she was like, “Oh, here here's the sting begone” or whatever that magic, you know, cream that you put on. God bless those moms guys.

Rachel: I am about mom, guys. I have all the…

Amanda: We love you!

Rachel: I'm also the crafty mom.

Amanda: Uh, Thank God! All right. So we've been talking about changing minds and how great that is. So my Toast to Joy is actually about me changing my mind.

So after we did our mental health episode, I was listening back to it and something in me was like, “Why don't I see a therapist?” I see my, you know, regular primary care physician every year I go and I get my lab work done and I check in with her how's my health. And I have other doctors who check in with me.

I was like, “Why don't I check it on my mental health?” And so I started seeing a therapist and it has been only one time so far, but even the first time was amazing. I'm so happy I do it. And I was actually meeting with some friends and every other woman at the table was like, “Yeah, I do too. I do too. I do too.”

And I was like, “Oh, well now I do.”

Katie: Are you ready for this, Amanda? “I do too.” And it's sort of new for me too, but you know, I'm glad to be in the club with you and your brunch friends.

Amanda: I love it. It's amazing. I need that check-in and I have felt better even in just a week. It feels like I'm taking care of myself…

Katie: No, it’s real. 

Amanda: And I love it!

Katie: Way to go. Amazing!

Rachel: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much to everyone for joining us today. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a rating and review. And be sure to tune in next week where I will be interviewing Jennifer Rubin about her book “Resistance: How Women Saved Democracy from Donald Trump.” Can't wait.

But the fight isn’t over, so tune in and we will see you then on another episode of the Suburban Women Problem.