This One Time On Psychedelics
Welcome, fellow explorers of the infinite.
If you’re here, it means you’re ready to step beyond the ordinary and into the great unfolding mystery of existence itself. Because psychedelics? They’re not just substances—they’re a doorway to a new way of seeing reality, a lens that reveals the hidden layers of reality we walk through every day. And that’s exactly what we explore here.
I’m Ryan Sprague, and This One Time On Psychedelics isn’t just about trippy stories and wild journeys (though trust me, we have plenty of those). It’s about the conversations that hold the power to awaken us, to shift our consciousness, and to remind us that there is far more to this reality than meets the eye.
These are the conversations that expand hearts, challenge perspectives, and guide us back to the wisdom that has always been within us. Whether through plant medicines, altered states, or the everyday magic woven into life itself, this is a space where we step beyond the known and into the infinite.
The psychedelic renaissance is here. The future is unwritten. And you, my friend, are a part of it.
So buy the ticket. Take the ride. And let’s see how deep this trip goes.
This One Time On Psychedelics
Ep. 208: Psychedelic Experiences, Presence & What Really Matters In Life (feat. Seibo Shen)
One of the main reasons I love podcasting so much is, yep, you guessed it, I adore speaking, however, speaking to myself alone in a room is a little weird & definitely not the same experience as when I get to speak to others who stimulate my curiosity, peak my inspiration & remind me of how epic & infinite life can be. As such, this show has become a zone of excitement & growth for me of sorts, consistently allowing me to open myself up to the unknown, to others subjective viewpoints of the world & to find more meaning in the game of life we are all playing a part in & todays episode is spot on to what I just described. Todays guest & I met some years back & immediately connected over the fact that we both not only spent time in the Cannabis industry, but were both passionate around the truth of Cannabis being a psychedelic medicine, among other things such as our love & affinity for psychedelics, spirituality & entrepreneurship, to name but a few. As such, we talked the last few years about doing a show & the divine timing finally aligned for this week on the show! From a deep dive into his journey, to sharing philosophical thoughts & more, this episode is a window into our personal relationship &, In my opinion, a perfect reminder of why connecting with aligned human beings is so important for each of us during our lives. So, please help me in welcoming my man Seibo Shen to the show!
Guest Links: Website - Instagram - YouTube - TikTok
This Podcast was produced by Mazel Tov Media.
https://www.highlyoptimized.com
@therealryansprague
Thank you. Medicines and the impact they've made among the countless psychonauts exploring the last true frontier. Buy a ticket and take the ride with me as we get true firsthand accounts of the experiences, benefits, risks and transformations taking place within the ever-expanding world of psychedelic medicines. On this One Time on Psychedelics. One of the main reasons I love podcasting so much is yep, you guessed it I adore talking. However, speaking to myself alone in the room by myself, is a little weird and definitely not the same experience as when I get to speak to others who stimulate my curiosity, pique my inspiration and remind me of how epic and infinite life can be. As such, this show has become a zone of excitement and growth for me, of sorts, consistently allowing me to open myself up to the unknown, to other subjective viewpoints of the world, and to find more meaning in the game of life we are all playing a part in, and today's episode is spot on to what I just described. Today's guest and I met some years back and immediately connected over the fact that we both not only spent time in the cannabis industry, but we're also both passionate around the truth of cannabis being a psychedelic medicine, among many other things, such as our love and affinity for psychedelics, spirituality and entrepreneurship, to name but a few. As such, we talked the last few years about doing a show and the divine timing finally aligned for this week on the show From a deep dive into his journey to sharing philosophical thoughts and more, this episode is a window into our personal relationship and, in my opinion, a perfect reminder of why connecting with aligned human beings is so important for each of us during our lives.
Speaker 1:So please give me a big hand in welcoming my man, sabo Shin, to the show. Sabo, my man, oh dude, am I excited to be here with you today. You know, as I said in the intro to all of you guys tuning in, I met Sabo a couple of years ago, I think, through Instagram. Like, I met a lot of my now really close friends and you know he was part of the cannabis industry before. So we bonded around that and we've tried to do this podcast, I think three times now and, like the saying goes, the third time is officially the charm man. So how you doing, brother? So excited to be here today with you.
Speaker 2:Dude, I am doing great. It's almost unbelievable for me that we're actually here. You know, for those that are listening me and Ryan leave like these multi-minute long voicemails to each other and we just, you know, it's almost one of my best relationships that I have just leaving these messages and we've had to reschedule this so many times because things have come up. So I am super happy, I'm excited, I'm grateful to be here. So thank you for having me, ryan.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, thank you so much for being here, man, and you know where I like to start these episodes off for people, just to give them some context is how you first got interested in the idea of psychedelic medicines and cannabis. I definitely lump into other psychedelics because I know, like I said before, you have a background in the industry. You used to make vaporizers, all this stuff but where did this all start for Sabo?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. The story goes all the way back to 1997. I'm in my third year in college. I had been trying to make the UCLA football team. I'm only 130 pounds, but I thought if I lifted, if I drank protein shakes and I just kept disciplined and focused, I would be 200 pounds. And well, by my third year in college I thought, well, hey, I'm kind of not having as much fun and doing all the things that my friends are doing. So my roommate he consumed an ounce of cannabis a day.
Speaker 2:I was trapping back in the day One client, my roommate. He was a model for Gap, so he had tons of money and by my third year he was like Sabo. I've been telling you to give this a try. I finally tried it and it just. It opened up my third eye chakra. I was able to see things from different perspectives and I knew instantly this was something that I wanted to have as part of my life. And then I started creating my first vaporizer in 1997. So that was my entrance into psychedelics. And, yeah, I do see cannabis as actually the most high I've ever been was eating 750 milligrams of edibles and you know I was. It was more intense than, I would say, even DMT, you know. So I know the power of cannabis and I am very respectful to mother marijuana.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, it's. It's wild how like edibles will make anyone respect the plant that isn't already respecting of it. I think a lot of us that are daily users or have been in the past or whatever. It's easy to normalize the effects of like inhalation methods. Right, sometimes you can go to concentrates and whatnot and get a little bit higher, but like there's kind of a ceiling, you know, and you can't really go past that ceiling with inhalation methods the way you can with edibles. Like edibles I mean, there is literally no ceiling. Like 750 milligrams, I mean, dude, that is a. I mean I'm having people have ayahuasca level experiences just connecting with a couple of hits and breathe with cannabis. So I don't even know what medicine that would be relevant to. Like a Boga or five MEO Like I mean it's wild, dude into like iboga or 5-MeO.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's wild dude. Yeah, it was 72 hours. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't even eat, I just had to power through it. So whenever I'm in like a really challenging plant medicine ceremony, I just think back to. This is not more intense than the 750 milligrams, and back in the day in California they used to sell thousand milligram brownies, so I know for sure I'm not the only one that ate like three quarters of the brownie and started feeling like whoa, this might be a little bit too strong for me.
Speaker 1:You know it is hilarious talking about the old days where you would just get given an edible and either they knew it was crazy potent but they made it anyway, or you had no idea what it was going to be and you were like, well, I had brownies last week, it's probably gonna be similar. Then you had a white knuckling I think I'm going to die experience and you're like, well, that was definitely stronger and that's how we used to have to figure this stuff out. You know these days a lot of trial by fire in those olden times.
Speaker 2:Totally. I mean, I don't want to sound like one of those old curmudgeon-y guys, but yeah, in my day we used to just have to roll the dice, you know, and just be the guinea pigs for every single edible that we made, because we had no idea how much cannabinoids were in the butter. And when I started making my own microdosing mushroom caps, I noticed the same thing. There were some capsules that were like probably 800 milligrams, some that were like 100 milligrams, and you know me and my friends just popping them and just experimenting. But you know, I think that it really did switch my framework and my relationship with these plants and really understanding that dosage is one thing, but you got to be really intentional and I found that when I had the right intention, even if the dosage was stronger than I would have liked, it really helped me navigate that experience.
Speaker 2:And I am a parent, so when I'm microdosing and it is too strong, there are some times when I'm thinking like, well, okay, I am a parent. So when I'm, when I'm microdosing and it is too strong, you know, there are some times when I'm thinking like well, okay, I got like four or five hours before I have to pick up the kids and then kind of like thinking will the effects kind of wear off by then? And just really having to be responsible. But then when I found what the right intention you know it would last for one or two hours and really allow me to test the efficacy and find out. You know it would last for one or two hours and really allow me to test the efficacy and find out. You know what is the exact amount to be putting into these micro doses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes so much sense. Man. You know, like, what I think intention does is there's a quote if you know your why, you can bear anyhow. And I feel like that's kind of what intention does, right, it allows you to realize your why, right, like, why am I going to this experience? What am I looking to get from it? How will I know if it's successful or quote-unquote unsuccessful, even though there's no such thing? But how will I know all these things? And so then, when you actually get into the experience, if it gets challenging, you have an anchor point.
Speaker 1:You know, based on your intention, why you chose to do this. So if you're going through a period of extreme uncomfortability or you're going through anything like that quote unquote undesirable results right, I talk about it often, they're not actually undesirable, but but at the same time, if you're going through something challenging, you have a way to be able to actually go okay. Well, maybe all of this is working towards that intention, like, so it really becomes your anchor point. So I'm glad you mentioned that because it is so true, so true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love that. You know, having that anchor point has really helped me when I became much more intentional with my journeys and you know I have had many a white knuckling experience and when I can remember the why. It just really allows me to better surrender and allow the medicine to do what it needs to do in my body and really get these transcendent experiences and not just the transcendent experience, but being able to integrate that into my daily life has just allowed me, I think, to navigate this polarizing country, this polarizing planet that we're on, and really stay focused and anchored on what I want to create and not be distracted on all the things that I really can't control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, let's be real, there are a lot of thirst traps right now in society, so many things vying for your attention, like, please give me your attention. I mean, you think about politics, you think about all these things that are just breeding grounds for losing energy. Because, at the end of the day, like doesn't matter what side of the political landscape you're on, doesn't matter anything about that. It's like the idea that we, by bitching on Facebook or bitching on Instagram or whatever, are going to somehow make the world a better place. It's just silly, right?
Speaker 1:So one of the things I throughout the time is that when you're intentional in one place in your life, it breeds into all the areas of your life, because how we do anything is how we do everything. So when we practice intention with cannabis, let's say, and we start realizing like wow, this gives us an overall better experience. Right, whatever better is surmised, for each person may be different, but you know, once we realize we get better results utilizing that method, well, we're going to try that with water, we're going to try it with food, we're going to try it before we make love, we're going to try it before everything. And as we're getting more intentional with life. We're kind of putting conscious blinders onto the way.
Speaker 1:Right, there's all these things, all these shiny objects vying for our attention but, we're just laser focused, because we know what we're doing, why we're doing it and what we're looking to get from it. It's really powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you know I was working with one of my clients, really really helping him focus on his vision. He's a successful business person, has done a whole bunch of different things and has been successful at all of these different projects, but just wasn't feeling like the purpose and the fulfillment that he thought and you know it was that he just didn't have. He didn't know the why, other than wanting to be rich. You know, and I think that anyone who has hit that point where whatever that number is in their head you know, 50,000, a hundred thousand, 200,000, whatever it may be have hit that number where they thought, okay, once I get to this number, my life is going to be set. You know, when you hit it, you start realizing well, I realized that, wow, okay, like I'm a t-shirt and jeans type of guy, why did I have such a lofty goal?
Speaker 2:What was it that was empty in my life that I thought making more money would fill that hole? And yeah, as you said, you know, when I do not have like a clear vision or attention of where my life is going, then my propensity to go online and participate in these things skyrockets, when I'm hyper focused on creating the things that I believe will bring more joy, more love, more compassion into the world. Then it's like, yes, I'm aware of all the things going on, but I'm not allowing it to affect me, and if it is affecting me to a point where it is bothering me, then I will take some action. You know, and that's where I found what was most useful for me was to be aware and to not be affected. But if I'm affected, then do what I can to take some action and that will relieve some of that, that feeling of powerlessness or whatever I might be feeling by reading whatever type of news I'm reading.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes perfect sense, man. And you know, I think that's one of the big challenges, you know, going around the world right now. I know I already mentioned it, but it's like this why? Right? Like, why are we here? Why is any of this happening? Why are we a finite being in this lifetime, but everyone says we're infinite? Right, like these ability or this ability to ask why is something that the powers that shouldn't be have done a really good job of keeping us so distracted that we don't really have any downtime to, quote-unquote, be bored anymore, which is naturally when people would start asking these questions like who am I? What am I? Where do I come from? Where am I going? What is my purpose? Right, like those take a certain level of space to be able to actually even ask yourself, let alone get an answer for. And when I look at the world today, like I'm 33.
Speaker 1:So I grew up in a world where, until I was about 13 I mean 12 maybe I got my first cell phone, but it was like black and white, next hell, I 1000. So, like you, couldn't even play games on it, it was like stupid. So, really, until I was like 17, 18, I didn't really have any type of like smartphone or anything like that, because they didn't really exist. So, you know, I'm grateful that, like I've now had from 18 to 33 be like all technology based and zero to 18 was kind of like the old school way of living right, with small amounts of technology, cooler, video game systems, things like that. But what I've realized through that is that I had a lot of time to ask questions, I had a lot of time to be bored, I had a lot of time to start hobbies and things like that, because there wasn't always something vying for my attention.
Speaker 1:And I'm grateful for that period because I don't know what it would have been like if I was born, like you know, 15 years later. It's very interesting. I mean, you're a father, right. So like what does technology look like, you know, for not only your kids? I mean, I know you're probably doing some things to, you know, kind of lessen the blow there. But as a parent who's probably interacting with other parents you know, who have kids that maybe are on screens, a lot like what does that look like? What's that landscape like right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that is a very, very potent question. And before I answer that question, you know, like you know like I, I definitely agree with you. I mean I was in the rat race before COVID, just working, grinding, bragging, that I only slept three or four hours like bragging about that, like dude. You slept five hours. I slept four, dude, like I'm working harder than you. And then COVID happened and you know it kind of I had more time to hang out with my family.
Speaker 2:Just think, maybe do some psychedelics, cause I wasn't doing much while I was traveling all the time and really going. Wow, you know, like my time is preoccupied with a screen of some form, literally from the moment I wake up to when I go to bed. It doesn't matter if I'm scrolling or on a Zoom call or reading an article or listening to music. It just seems like the phone is my work device, my entertainment device, my time management device. It's everything.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so when I think about my kids, I kind of think about this technology the same way I look at cannabis or psychedelics. You know, how you use it is how you're going to benefit from it. So, like most parents, when I saw my kids having a bad relationship with the screen. I wanted to limit them, but now I'm really just trying to teach them like there's a difference between something serving you versus you serving that thing, whether it's cannabis, whether it's electronics.
Speaker 2:So I'm really just trying to teach them you know how to have healthy relationships with whatever it is you know food, electronics, video games and one day I'm sure they're gonna want to explore consciousness like their dad does, and you know hopefully you know everything that I've told them. They're sure they're gonna want to explore consciousness like their dad does. And you know, hopefully you know everything that I've told them. They're, they're remembering. So I try not to have like black and white rules of like, hey, after 8pm you can't do it, because, well, what if you have to do a homework assignment? And just really help them have that sensitivity to knowing like, okay, hey, I want to use this device, okay, I'm going to use it. Versus I'm bored, I have nothing to do, so might as well mindlessly scroll. You know, just try to give them that granularity in their thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, I love that man Because, again, like that allows them to. It's essentially like teaching them to fish rather than just giving them a fish. Right, like you're not creating these arbitrary rules for them. Like you know again, why does one parent say no screens past eight and one says past nine, is one better than the other? No, they're just arbitrary rules that these people are creating.
Speaker 1:And so if we want our kids to grow up and learn how to make their own devotion practice right not even discipline, but devotion we get to explain to them the plus sides of technology, how amazing it is, but also the detrimental effects, and we let them go through this process and maybe touch the hot stove a couple of times. You know, you wake them up in the morning and they stayed up late. You're like, hey, sorry, you got to go to school anyway. And they start feeling that burn a couple of times and they start going you know what? I don't want to do, that that late. And then you go oh, that's interesting, what made you come to that conclusion?
Speaker 1:Conclusion, and they're like, well, I was staying up too late and I had to wake up for school and I was really like bummed out and very like frustrated and very anxious and whatever. And you're like, oh, that's what can happen when you expose yourself to blue light, too light or any of these kind of concepts, right, that are really powerful to learn. But I love the way you do it, because you do it through experience. You're like, no, maybe you should touch the hot stove a little bit, right With my care. Don't like burn yourself third degree on it, but, like you know, like get your hand close to him, be like, oh yeah, that is really hot, instead of just taking my word that it's hot and you just shouldn't touch it, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, if there's one thing that I've learned on my spiritual journey, as well as my plant medicine journey, is how little I actually know. You know, and I would say that I don't want to say similarly to you, I'll just say myself, but I think we're two guys that can take in a lot of information and synthesize it and then regurgitate it to someone and I know, when I'm able to do that, it feels like I know what I'm talking about, just like when I watch like a new jujitsu move on a youtube video, I like I feel like I know how to do this to someone in the gym. But when I try to do it, it's a completely different story. And that's where I started learning about parenting and growing up as an immigrant.
Speaker 2:I got bullied a lot, so I didn't want my kids to go through the same thing and just really protected them and what I realized was by protecting them, they weren't building up the resistance and the grittiness and whatever you need to go through by experiencing something firsthand. So now I'm just like this, really big believer that I'm always going to be there to support them and to comfort them, but, you know, if they really want to learn something not just intellectually understand it but like have it downloaded deep into the operating system. So it's a part of something that they embody. You know they need to go through it themselves and that's probably the most challenging part. You know, like if you're watching someone go through a challenging plant medicine ceremony or your kids kind of suffering, you want to make them feel better, but you know that's kind of what they have to go through at that time to really learn what they needed to learn at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, it's so funny. You mentioned this because I had a aha moment or a idea about three years ago where I coined this concept called knowing versus realizing. And that's like the idea because, just like you said, I thirst trapped myself for a long time and thinking that the more books I read, the more facts I could recite off a you know metaphorical fact sheet that these things meant I was smart, or that I embodied things. And, like they say, actions speak louder than words. So, for instance, I could explain to someone why a certain pattern was either disempowering or empowering. But on either side of that, if it was disempowering, then I'm like well, why am I still doing it? Or if it was empowering, it was, why am I still not doing it then? And so this idea of making it real for the eye in the equation, realizing it right, is like the idea of integration on the go, where it's one thing to understand, like hey, you know it's, it can help you unlock more psychedelic effects of cannabis if you take a weekly break, right, if you understand that, okay, great. It's another thing to actually go. I'm going to take three days off this week and do it. There's two totally different things, and I think that a lot of the place the world is kind of stuck as a collective is that. I was just saying this actually to a client beforehand.
Speaker 1:But it's almost like a lot of people think that if you want to understand an apple, let's say right, let's just take that as an example.
Speaker 1:If you want to understand an apple, the right way to do it, or the best way to do it, or the most productive way to do it, is to go find books on apples, find what seasons you know they're active in, find the different varieties, study pectin and boom, you know an apple.
Speaker 1:But what do they forget in that? To actually go eat an apple and see what it tastes like, see how it feels. Right, like what is the experience of enjoying an apple, you know, like I think people kind of get it backwards, you know, because for me I used to do it this way If I wanted to learn about something, I'd go study it like crazy. Now what I do is if I'm curious and it's not dangerous or whatever, I'll try it first, right, with maybe a little research, I'll try it, and then whatever I experienced in that, that's what I'll then go research and be like, hey, why, when I took LSD, did this happen? Hey, when I took MDMA and felt my jaw clenching, why does that happen? And now I can study it from the basis of having experience with it.
Speaker 1:And I think that has been a huge help in my life, anyway, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I really love that. I mean, there's definitely been, if we stick the context of plant medicines, you know, like I've done so much research, I more or less like research my way out of wanting to take it, because I read like different things of like, wow, you know, this person you know had a, a dark entity following them for like three months after doing X, y, z, and so I like your framework where, yeah, you'll do a little bit of research just to know like, hey, you know, if I do this, worst thing that's going to happen is I may like pass out or something you know, and then just allowing yourself to experience it.
Speaker 2:And you know, I found that to be so useful for just about everything in life, you know, not just psychedelics but starting a business, I think for a lot of people. I have lots of friends that have MBAs, that are much more, I guess from an education point of view, should know more about business, but they never get started. And they always ask me, how did I get started? And I was like I don't know, I just bought something from a wholesaler and then asked other people if they wanted to buy it. And then I did that enough times where like a business just came out of it, you know. So I really liked just having like experience first and then having some knowledge to support it, but kind of utilizing both experiential and then you know. I mean, I think what we're both not saying is, yeah, like books aren't. Like books aren't useless. There is value to that. But there is greater value when it's experiential and knowledge-based too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% agreed.
Speaker 1:Because what is a book? Right? It's someone else's subjective view of the universe being given back to you in a digestible format that resonates with them, and so that's fine, nothing's wrong with that. But the challenge is, if you only read the books and then, like you were saying, with the psychedelics, right, you read someone's account, you're like I'm not doing that now. What's like? Well, you just stopped an experience in your own life based on what someone else had experienced, and nothing says that you're going to experience the same things that someone else experienced, and so I think that's where a lot of the world gets stuck.
Speaker 1:It's where I got stuck for many years. You know, like, should I go travel to this place? I don't know. Some people say it's good, some say it's bad. It's like if it resonates and you have an intuitive pull to it no-transcript, the best way, the most efficient way, like they've taught us, like it's all left brain, and then we have people coming in saying it's all right brain, and I'm like no, guys, it's the middle right, like we wouldn't have a left brain if it was useless. But also, can we see the faults of being all left brained? And can we also see the faults of being all right brained and how, when you combine these things together, it gives us an ability to operate throughout our reality as a balanced individual. I mean, I think that's the goal, right.
Speaker 2:No, totally. I mean, that's why there's the corpus callosum that connects the left and the right hemisphere. It's so that we could utilize both holistically. And you know, I really believe that, like we were talking about how polarizing it is in the world and, in a way, like just thinking COVID was 2020, it seems like 50 years ago, you know. But I also know that, you know, because of COVID, it really like it kind of like supercharged, like my spiritual growth, just having more time to sit with these questions and to learn.
Speaker 2:You know that intuition you know intuition wasn't just some knee jerk reaction. What I've been shown by my guides is that intuition is like my higher self's way of like just dropping little bread crumbs for me to follow. And when I see young children follow their intuition and then get scolded for it you know, I know I was scolded for it when I was younger I realized, oh, that's why I was so disconnected as an adult, and so it's really awesome to kind of have this information and be like open to like my children telling me like they have an imaginary friend, and I used to tell them well, that's cool, you know, like just kind of placate them. But now I'm like no, what did your imaginary friend say? Oh, it was something warm and loving. Okay, do you believe it? Like, what do you think about it? And kind of chat to them not like they're imagining something, but chatting with them that they have like this extra sensitivity.
Speaker 2:You know that maybe adults don't have anymore, but that doesn't mean that what they're experiencing is not true just because someone else can experience it. And really kind of seeing my children step into their spiritual gifts and become more comfortable with it has been, has been just this like really fascinating part about being a parent. And for myself, you know, I didn't have my awakening till four years ago, so I was 44 years old and I wouldn't say I was a hardcore atheist. But if someone showed me like Bashar or Abraham Hicks, I'd just be like, well, they're saying some good stuff, but why are they closing their eyes and pretending they're channeling some higher frequential entity and just kind of maybe keep it at that. But now I'm just like, wow, you know, they're just more sensitive and tapped in and we could absolutely, you know, do that for ourselves and then gift that as an opportunity for our children to become these more open, higherquential versions of homo sapiens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's really what we're seeing, you know, in a big way, like one of the things I've been tapping into too, is how, you know, we teach kids manners and how to pay taxes right, obviously a lot more than that, but like I'm talking about mainstream right and they remind us that we are God. Now those are like, in order for that to happen, it requires a parent or parents that are aware enough to understand that first of all, which, like we're coming into the age of aquarius now, so more people are. But like let's talk about even when I was born, like 91, my parents are amazing, but they didn't have like that kind of connection with god. Right, like even friends I know that grew up in like a really religious type household. They were taught like God's going to make you burn in hell if you don't do exactly what he says. Right, like that kind of view of religion and so like it feels like there's a shifting point happening now where people are starting to realize, like you were saying, like no, my kids have lessons for me as well, because they still like, especially before six years old, they're still really one with God in a way.
Speaker 1:There's a story I forget where it comes from, but you may have heard it before. Listeners. You may have heard it before, but there was this story of this mom who had a new baby and her other kid was like three or four, I think, or something like that. And basically what she did was this three or four-year-old came in and said, hey, can I go hang out with the baby? And so the mom was like sure, but like kind of a little curious of why? Right? So she lets the four-year-old go into the room and she kind of like hangs out with like an ear on the door type thing, and she hears the four-year-old talk to the baby and say, hey, can you remind me of what God's like? I'm forgetting, right, and that's literally like what she was asking this baby to do. And so the mom was always like whoa, that's wild.
Speaker 1:And when I heard that I was like yeah, it makes so much sense. Because, like you know, I had this funny analogy came to me, because God speaks to me through comedy a lot of times. But I was, uh, san clemente, california, staying with one of my coaches, this guy, angelo. He has a family, so I was there with his young son, who was probably like about one and a half, two at the time, and one day I was watching him run around and throw shit around and just do his thing.
Speaker 1:You know, be a one, two year old and it just kind of dawned on me I was like, dude, like watching someone grow up is like watching someone come magnificently slowly out of a 5meo dmt experience. Right like like at first they're just like unable to talk, they're just staring at you wide-eyed, they're shitting their pants, right like they have. They have no awareness that they're a human. And then slowly but surely, they start testing the rules of gravity and all these kind of things and then eventually they get to the point of like being like I don't know, around six, seven, eight, where they're kind of like all right, I got two feet on the ground for the most part.
Speaker 1:I kind of know most of my manners, I get how to like pay attention in school to a certain degree, right Like they kind of been. I don't want to call it like societized, but in a way it's kind stick in the you know the state of a zero year old forever. But the goal is can you become an adult without getting adulterated? You know, that's kind of like the juxtaposition I see here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's. It's super interesting just observing and you know, I don't know what it's like to have an adopted child. I would assume it's just as interesting. But when you see like your genetics and your wife's genetics in like one person and then you're seeing them grow up we have two of them and so one of them apparently is just like my wife when she was younger and my younger daughter apparently is just like me when I was younger, except like a girl version. So watching them like evolve and grow and then like kind of find themselves like my youngest just turned 10.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't too long ago when she was below seven, but like below seven she was definitely like just in her body, no questions about what she wanted to do, would just follow her highest joy. And then now I could definitely see like when I ask her a question, like she'll kind of have like an impulsive response and then she'll kind of think and process and in a way like, as you said, we all need to learn society's rules to be able to just, you know, get along with each other. But there is like this kind of I don't want to say disappointment, but like just seeing her go from this like super pure, I'm going to do whatever I want to. Well, mary might not think that's cool, so I'm not going to do it. It's kind of a bummer, you know, but it is a great teaching lesson as an adult, because, you know, I would watch my kids spend hours like building like a, a castle with blocks or something, and then second they want to do something else.
Speaker 2:They'll go do it. You know, there's no attachment to the blocks. They'll. They'll even like just knock it over and I'll be like oh man, I didn't take a picture and they're like well, I'll just go build it again. Why do you need to take a picture of it? You?
Speaker 2:know and just really be in the moment and to me that is one of the greatest gifts of just having children is watching them like just be in the moment, and then also watching them evolve, because as sad as it is to see them almost forget, like you said it's like, hey, I'm forgetting. I know that at some point, you know, they'll start remembering again as an adult.
Speaker 1:Makes so much sense, man. And one thing I don't think I've ever shared in the show before I think I've only told like two people about this, because it's just not something that really comes up in conversation that naturally, but it is coming up here is I still remember the exact moment and day where my brain shifted from I just go play whatever to like oh wait, that toy was bought for me yesterday, so I should probably play with that one. Like why am I not interested in that? Like I remember that day it was weird. Like I woke up I was probably around six, seven, somewhere around there, and in my room I had, I had two big toy boxes in my room and I remember like I don't remember what I was doing the night before, whatever, but I remember waking up and it feeling really weird.
Speaker 1:Like I remember the feeling I can't describe, it's a sensation, but I remember the feeling. I remember the smell in the air and I remember like being confused as a kid and being like, wait a minute. Like yesterday I could just go play with whatever. But like now I'm feeling this. Like how describing the words of today is like no, there needs to be some structure here. Like I go play with this for this amount of time and then I go here Like I still remember that dude. It's a really trippy thing that I've never really like talked about with anyone because it just doesn't come up in conversation. But it is fascinating to think back on. Do you remember a point where that shifted for you? I'm just curious.
Speaker 2:Wow, you know, the interesting thing is yesterday we were just talking about, you know, when we realized Santa Claus was not real and my younger daughter said my older daughter, sophie, told her so, and then I asked her if she was disappointed. She goes no, I just kind of thought like it was weird that some guy could deliver presents to everyone in one night. And you know, so that was kind of like my come to Jesus moment of like. I remember that I was maybe five or six, you know, just understanding that when I was old enough to understand the concept of Santa Claus, I kind of had that same reaction that I think you had about the toys. Like all of a sudden I got like super rigid.
Speaker 2:I was like nah, that's not real, like there's no way like a guy could do that in one night. And you know, based on the way I see him on TV, he couldn't fit in our chimney. And I saw that the cookie I left out you know we're still there in the morning like someone else must have taken them. So there was like this like really weird logical, rational side of me that came out because of the Santa Claus thing. So I think that was kind of like my version of just like going. Oh wait, you know, a lot of this magical stuff maybe isn't as magical as I thought, it's just maybe my parents putting gifts there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's interesting, man. As you were talking about that, I remembered another memory too. I was probably in had to have been first or second grade and it was St Paddy's day and my parents got married on St Paddy's day, so it was kind of like a bigger holiday in our household than for most people not to mention we live in Boston, which is a big Irish population. But so I remember leprechauns were a big thing back then and I remember my parents had left me some note and they had said it wasn't from them. They like made it all cool. It was like all like glittery and whatnot. And there was this whole letter from this leprechaun and I remember I was so excited I brought it to school and a couple of my like somehow friends were like that's not real.
Speaker 1:Your parents wrote that. I remember even like no, like, no, like they, like, cause I already knew Santa Claus wasn't real, but it was like I wanted to believe. There was a part of me that already kind of thought like maybe it's not. But like when everyone started telling me like now that was your parents, I remember feeling like damn. Like I remember asking myself like is that how life's going to be? Like all the magic leaves, like I again I don't know how I thought about it in words of a six-year-old, but reflecting back on it I still remember I was in the cafeteria at Wausau Gus at school, which is the school behind my parents' house, and I remember, like yesterday, we were lining up to go outside and like walk to classrooms.
Speaker 1:We'd all hang out in there in the you know kind of colder parts of the year and until, like you know, class is ready to start. And I remember walking through and it was my buddy, sean Blaze, which was he was. He was the guy that would do that. You know he'd always be like that's not real. You know, like my whole life, dude, the guy was hilarious, but but yeah, it was so funny man. So that was like the second level of like. All right. And then I remember my parents told me at an Outback Steakhouse that Santa wasn't. I was sitting there eating a blooming onion.
Speaker 2:I was probably like 10 years old and they're like you know Santa's not real and I was like, yeah, guys, I think I figured it out, but it's so funny thinking back to that shit man. Yeah, well, you know, the interesting thing is and I don't know if you believe in this or not but last year when I did ayahuasca for the first time, I did come in contact with, like elves, fairies, leprechauns, elementals, sasquatch, yeah, yeah, elementals. And that's why I was like Whoa, okay, you know, like I remember my children telling me like they were interacting with elementals and, like I said, I wasn't gaslighting them, I was just kind of placating them. But when I had that experience of the elementals myself and what it was showing me was just like they're in this frequency that is just a bit higher than where we're at, but when we kind of expand our frequency band we'll see them every once in a while. Or if you're like maybe a camper in the woods and you smoked a doobie or ate some shrooms, you might see Bigfoot walking by and then when you go look for him, he just goes into another dimension so you don't see him. But yeah, having that visceral experience with the elementals and then I've had them come without any exogenous molecules put in my body. It really made me go, whoa, okay, this makes sense of like all the folklore and all the fairy tales where this comes from.
Speaker 2:Because, as I started just really double downing on the meditation and reaching out to my guides and trying to, you know, just get some information channel through me. You know they were showing me like there was a previous world where like these, like telepathy and these inner sense organs were like far more developed. And then it reminded me of this like rudolph steiner quote about like how man will keep making technologies outside of himself until he realizes they're just poor carbon copies of what's within. Like all these things just started clicking in my head so my logical, rational brain could be like super open to like metaphysics and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, without like that firsthand experience, I would read about this stuff and I was like, cool, I would like to have a kundalini awakening or I would like to know what it feels like to be one with every single atom in the universe. And then, once I had the experience, I was like, holy shit, okay, now I see. And when I see, when I say now see, I wasn't seeing with these two eyes. It was just like this paradigm shift and just became open to a lot more of these things. And once I realized I was open to it and had more sensitivity, I just was able to interact with these higher frequential beings that's the best description I could think of higher frequential beings more easily.
Speaker 1:It makes perfect sense, man. I mean when we think about Lord could think of you know higher beings more more easily. It makes perfect sense, man. I mean, like when we think about like Lord of the Rings, for instance, or we think about Star Wars, like in one way, right, no one verse realizing right, left brain versus right brain, left brain People would say, dude, it's just a story, he invented it. Right brain People would say, okay, yeah, we know it's a story he invented, but where did he get the inspiration from? Where did that come from?
Speaker 1:Because you look, especially a lord of the rings, I mean the dude, has like languages for the different sex of beings and that, right, like that's not, that's not something that just pops into your mind one day and you're like, oh, let me write it down.
Speaker 1:Right, like that's something that got channeled without the ability to understand what channeling is at that time in history. And also, let's think about like it wasn wasn't too long ago, like I live 45 minutes from Salem, massachusetts, where if you were channeling you got fucking stoned to death, you know, or burned at the stake. So like you better believe that's still in our DNA, you know. So I think for a lot of us now the age of Aquarius is like, hey, it's cool to let your free flag fly high. But I think we have to realize that, like even when I was a kid or you were a kid, it was a very different world. Like if you were out there saying you were channeling higher vibrational frequencies and beings, you'd be like, oh, they'd be like okay, maybe we got to give you a lobotomy or something.
Speaker 1:Like it wouldn't have been well received. And I remember when I went to the mystery school, they had a really cool class called 12 Races of Earth and it was all about how all of these elemental beings were actually the children of the Elohim, who came here before Adam. So Adam and Eve is like the next rendition of different beings right, human beings, but before that it was the children of Lilith, and they were elementals. They didn't have souls like we have, necessarily right, and that's not a bad thing, because their mission was not to discern between good and evil, because their mission was not to end up like God, right, like our mission here in this lifetime.
Speaker 1:Our ultimate muscle to wield is discernment, so that we can really figure out what is truly good, aka what is God, because good and bad aren't really real, but what is God and what is the absence of God? That's really what we're here to figure out, right? So when we see a marketing commercial of like are you injured, call this number now, or whatever, right. Like there's a feeling that will hit us if we tune into that right. Like does that person really feel like they can help me out or not? That is the ultimate school of wield here because, again, like you may have someone in your family right, especially after the covid stuff that was like, say, about you have to get the vaccine right, and so they think they're coming from a pure intention, right, and in their world they are like they want to help you, they think that's how they're helping you, etc.
Speaker 1:They're scared about losing you or getting you know, you getting hurt but you have to be the one to be able to weigh that and go. That's not not good for me, that doesn't feel like God to me and so like that's really the entire reason we're here according to this, this theory. So it's interesting when you look into the past, because vampires are part of the elemental family fairies uh, dwarves actually aren't, which I call bullshit on Cause I'm like dude. Dwarves are definitely part of that, but you know again, like a lot of these elemental beings, they're still here, and the way that I talk about it is they're not here here, but they're in a different frequency.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of like if you were a kid and you only had analog television, right like channel seven, and then all of a sudden your buddy across the street gets pay-per-view right, same TV, same antenna, but he's able to pick up different frequencies. That's kind of what happens when we start eating better, we start connecting with psychedelics, we start meditating, we start opening up the pay-per-view that's always been there but we just haven't been aware of it. And so it's very interesting that when you do that, you start coming into contact with a lot of these different beings, right, and you realize that why wouldn't they be here Makes all the sense in the world once you start actually talking with them and stuff. But yeah, it was very interesting that whole theory of, like the elementals being the children of Lilith and human beings being the children of Adam and Eve, you know, very interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is really cool. I've never heard that. Thank you for sharing that it was cool.
Speaker 1:I love that class. It was so fun.
Speaker 2:You know what the craziest thing is? I don't know if you've seen this video before, but there's this guy on YouTube and he put out a video called the Discovery. It's a five minute video and it's basically like he figured out. If you smoke DMT and you get a 650 nanometer diffracted laser and you shine it against the wall and you keep your eyes open, you start seeing like these Hebrew and kind of Japanese katakana, like just like in the matrix, and then as you scan up and down with the laser, it just reveals like different lines of code and literally everyone, everyone sees the exact same code. And to me, you know, like I was like, oh man, like when I talk about fairies or Sasquatch, or or like people like Bashar or Abraham Hicks. I can see why some people are like, okay, well, maybe, maybe, maybe not. But man, when I showed people this video, I was like dude, this guy could recreate, like you know, show you the matrix, and they're just like that's, that's cool. Hey, how about the warriors game?
Speaker 2:And I'd be like man, I just kind of talked about the fundamental nature of 3D reality and maybe this might not be the truth of it, and here's like a repeatable methodology and you want to talk about the three-point contest. It kind of like blows my mind of like what interests people, but I really love what you talked about. I think it's if your brain as a frequency tuner isn't wide enough to accept this pay-per-view signal, then that pay-per-view signal might not even be something that's interesting to you. To pick up, I just thought, man, so many of my friends, we loved the Matrix when it came out.
Speaker 2:I know you were only a few years old, but we were like 18, 19. So we were just like into acid, into like is this reality? And then we see this movie and we're like, holy shit, someone else has thought about this other than us. And so when I showed my same friends this and they were like that's cool, but do you see, like Steph Curry got MVP, I'm like, oh yeah, he kind of blows my mind, but it is just kind of interesting, like where people's interests fall. And you know, when we talk about these things to me, it lights me up like no other. But I guess you know, some people just aren't in that frequency range.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's like this too right. Like you know, modern schooling is a good example. We've kind of surmised that most people at six years old are at a first grade level, but you also have those outliers right, the people that when they're six years old, maybe they don't even know how to read and they have to start to, like you know, do like a triple repeat of kindergarten. We also have the other side, where someone at six years old is just naturally a savant. There was a Disney show around that. I forget the name of it, but this was one kid who skips a bunch of grades. Do you remember the name of that? And it was probably past her time, but I'm just curious if you remember it.
Speaker 2:No, no, I don't remember it.
Speaker 1:It was like this guy who was like, he was probably, like you know, 10 and he was in high school a senior, you know cause he was so gifted at, like you know, just intellect or whatever intellectual knowledge. So you know, again, we have those kind of outliers, right, but mostly like six years old equals first grade, seven equals second, et cetera, et cetera. So when we look at like the whole idea of what you're talking about, right, the way I think about it is like this. The way I think about it is, you know, based on previous lifetimes, based on a lot of shit that we don't remember because we've been men in black, essentially right, it starts coming back as we start tuning in. But we're all at, even though we may look a similar age, we may be doing similar things at a similar age, we don't all have the same level of consciousness and this isn't like a hierarchy thing. It's probably like those of us that have eyes to see in this lifetime probably have gone through thousands of lifetimes where we didn't right. So now we're just coming into like oh, we've had enough reps and we're starting to open up, whereas some people around us you can tell they're at a certain level that is perfect for them, right, there's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 1:But also it becomes like kind of confusing, right, because you're looking at these people and you know they seem similar age. They were interested in other things, right, or like similar things when you were younger, and they just go a different direction, and in one way that's obviously what makes life beautiful, but in another way, that's also what makes us all go reach out and find each other, right, like that's why I started this podcast, because I know firsthand how weird it can be to try to find people that are interested in like these kind of conversations, right, fairies, dwarves, elementals, you know, raising kids in the unique way that you are, like all these different things. And that's the beauty of life, in a way, right, like we get to find the people that resonate with us. But that's the way I've thought about it for a little while is like, oh, I imagine there's many lifetimes where I've been like completely a goofball sleep, whatever, just having fun, you know, and for whatever reason. I don't really even need to know why. This lifetime is one where I'm waking up a lot and I'm starting to realize these things, and so it's.
Speaker 1:It's honestly cute in a way. It's kind of like if you go over to your kid when they're seven years old and you're like, hey, I just got a promotion to my job. And they're like cool, dad, like cool, you know, like they're playing with play-doh. And they're like, yeah, but check out this sick little figure I made. And you're like in one respect you're like what? Like now again, you wouldn't be like this. I'm talking about normal parents but like you.
Speaker 1:It might be hard as a parent to understand how your kid's not excited about that, but they're meant to be excited doing what they're doing right now and we're meant to be excited doing what we're doing. And so that's like how I've kind of moved through that Cause I had that not even challenge, just curiosity, like wait, what's going on here, like I'm giving you the codes of the universe, you know, or whatever is like they're.
Speaker 2:They're not God, but like their pathway in this lifetime, for whatever reason, you know, that's my best guess, anyway you know, you know, I mean it's interesting because it totally reminded me of, like, the spiral dynamics framework of like, yeah, people are just in their level, it's not better or worse, it's just they have different sets of core values depending on what level they're in, and there are definitely positive and negative manifestations of each level. And I think that, if you're anything like me, like I'm just super curious, so when I find answers to things, I want to share them with people, and when they don't have like the same reaction, I'm always like whoa, like I guess maybe it was just interesting to me that the matrix was real, and not make believe to other people. Three point shooting is much more important, you know. So I get it, I get it. So thanks for the reminder.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, of course, and trust me, you can always, always reach out to me about anything regarding the matrix being real, or actually the matrix being false, but it the illusion being real, Like that's why we stick together. You know, it's like I'm. I pride myself on being that person for a lot of my friends and vice versa. I'm sure I mean you're the same way with your friends, et cetera. But, like you know, it's typically the cannabis people like I found this out.
Speaker 1:This is another theory I have that I'm curious to run by you, but at least for me, when I was in high school, like everyone smoked weed, like everyone did right. But I remember when I got to around age 18 or 19 and I left school and I started like I was still hanging out with a lot of people from high school, but I was in college now the amount of cannabis users dwindled a little bit. And then, now that I'm 33, it's like no, there's only like a couple people I know that I went to high school with that are still connecting with cannabis and I started asking them why and they were like, oh, it was all great and fun and games, until I had some crazy experience where I got paranoid and just never again, right. And so I think those of us that have continued connecting with cannabis specifically are the ones that are naturally more open to all of this stuff we're talking about, because it's just really hard to connect with a psychedelic and not be open to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely followed the same kind of like um thing with with my friends as well and you know, we started talking, started the podcast, talking about edibles, and usually the story is I had to quit because I ate too many edibles and it was super uncomfortable. And, you know, I think there is I don't know what it is, but there was something about like having an experience that was hard for me to handle that actually made me want to experience it again, you know, to see if, like, I could do it but maybe not be so freaked out. You know, starting off as in my twenties and then now being in my late forties, you know and really understanding what surrendering means. You know, like, I think, when I heard the word surrender I was just like how do you give up? You know, like, in my mind I didn't understand, like, what surrendering meant. But now you know, now that I'm in my almost fifth decade of life and third decade with psychedelics, you know, really understanding, as you said, there are no bad trips and they're there to either help you see something or be able to surrender to something that you're really trying to control. You know that has made all the differences and that doesn't mean, every psychedelic journey is awesome.
Speaker 2:I definitely still have a lot of challenging ones when I'm going through it, just like why did I do this again? But when I come out of it, it's always just, you know, a new, higher-frequential version of me that is more sensitive to these beings and entities that are out there and really seeing how wonderful and beautiful the world is. And what my guides have told me was like Sabo, this is great, you know, but you chose to come into 3D space-time to have a specific experience, so don't forget, you know to. You chose to come into 3d space time to have a specific experience. So don't forget, you know to to do what you're supposed to do here. And then I'll be like, well, what I'm supposed to do, I'm like they're like we're not here to tell you. You know, like you know what you're supposed to do. But yeah, you know, it was great to kind of get that advice of like you know, doing all this inner work is great, but you know, don't forget to to live your 3d life. At the same time, eat some fried chicken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, exactly, that's exactly, dude. I'm so glad you mentioned that Cause I think that's what the Bible meant when it said the meat shall inherit the earth, right, like I mean, there's many different explanations for that statement, but what it always brought up to me was that the most powerful people I've met are the ones that are really non-dualists, you know. So, like a Buddha, for instance. Like a Buddha would never tell you you should or should not consume alcohol, nicotine, drugs, psychedelics, whatever they would hit all the buttons and they would just go to what makes them feel closer to God. That's it. If it was psychedelics all day, every day, that's what they would do. If it wasn't for their subjective universe, they wouldn't. And If it wasn't for their subjective universe, they wouldn't. And they would never try to tell anyone else what to do, because that's everyone's own ability as God, to decipher and determine and discern for themselves.
Speaker 1:And so, like you know, I love that view of like, hey, it's great to do these ice baths and sauna and exercise and all this stuff that we do, but also, like, don't forget to go. Like, play in the park, you know, be a goofball, play with your kids, kids play some video games, have some fun because at the end of the day, everything here is a lesson in disguise. Right, like you can find god anywhere. Right, like you can find god in xbox, you can find it wherever, right. And so, like there's not really a place, you can't find god, unless you're not looking for him or you don't know that it exists, you know. And so once you kind of get the memory back, right, right and it comes in waves, of course, of like hey, this isn't all we are, then anything becomes a spiritual doctrine. At that point, you know, and so I just, I just love that component of life. It's so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, if I could double tap on that. You know, like the latest meditation that I was doing, the little download that I got was well, one of the things that I've been working on is how to recycle vaporizers and I figured that out. I figured that out. So huge problem to figure out and my guides were telling me that, like this is great, this is gonna be like something that would be awesome on your resume. But the true kind of like showing that you've really expanded and elevated is not doing these grandiose things, but it was what you just described seeing God in everything. And when you could see God in everything, in the most mundane thing, that's when you'll know like you're really advancing. Like creating a way to recycle vapes, great for your planet, great for all of that external validation. But know, in order to recognize God, it's not about doing something great and grandiose that everyone benefits from, it's being able to see it in the mundane day-to-day things you know, like chop wood, carry water. Chop wood, carry water right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I love that. Sabo has been amazing. Dude, I wish I could keep talking to you over and, over and over again. I'm gonna have to get you back on for round two, because we could keep this conversation going for at least three more hours, if not a lot more. But I wanna make sure I give people an ample opportunity to know where they can find you, connect with you, find out about all the new things coming out. Where can I send people, man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the same handle for TikTok YouTube Instagram just at Sabo Shen S-E-I-B-O-S-H-E-N. And if you guys want to email me, sabo at Sabo knowscom. I answer every email and just really appreciate this, ryan, and oh man, it took like six months to schedule this. This hour blew by in like five minutes. So we'll definitely do it again and I'd love to return the favor and have you on my show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, you let me know when we'll co create some magic and continue our cross pollination. I have one last question for you, man, that I like to ask everyone that comes on. Let's say someone listens to this episode and they're really excited to check out the idea of psychedelic medicines and see if they apply to their own life. What is the one piece of advice you could offer them to see whether or not and help them discern if whether or not, these medicines are right for them at this moment in their life?
Speaker 2:Wow, wow. I would say that if they are exploring, then most likely it is the right moment in their life. You know, there's there's a reason why they're exploring and if I could take your answer from before is do enough research to make you feel comfortable and then just go do it. You know, do enough research to make you feel comfortable and I feel like I feel like I feel pretty confident in this. I mean, I was like a 13, 14, 15 year old messing around with this stuff.
Speaker 2:You know, like would more information had been better? Probably, but you know, I still kind of learned while doing it, and so I would say that number one is if you're curious, it's probably the right time. Number two is just get enough information so you know that you could be safe, so that when you someone you know get a referral from someone that's actually gone and had their space held by a specific shaman or page, and do it that way. You know, I, I, I wouldn't gamble on just some random person that you found online. I really feel like it's important for me to feel confident and safe in order to have the deepest experience possible. So I would ask a friend for a recommendation.
Speaker 1:Definitely, dude. I love all those three pieces of wisdom are very wisdomful. You know, having the right person, doing just enough research, but not getting too stuck into it. Right, balance, right, that's what we're talking about. Balance Guys. I am so excited that I finally got to say well on, I hope you guys loved this episode. Make sure you got into the show notes, give him a follow, send him an email if you have any questions for him and stay tuned because he will be back on. If you guys are new to the show and you haven't left a review yet, make sure you go leave a five-star review. It helps us so much get the show out to more and more people, which we we are so excited about. And until next time, may you guys have the best day ever and to infinity and beyond Much love everybody, infinity and beyond.
Speaker 2:Dude Good right here, brother.
Speaker 1:Let's go.
