Healing After Hell: The Real Truth About Starting Over with Jenica Leonard

 “As a person who did not have anything to do but to keep moving forward, I did.” —Jenica Leonard

Some lives do not fall apart all at once. They crack slowly under cancer scares, caregiving, impossible workloads, quiet drinking, and the pressure to hold everything together. This conversation sits in that place where careers, bodies, and identities stop cooperating, and starting over is no longer optional.

We meet Jenica Leonard, a second‑generation attorney, breast cancer survivor, and sober mom who went from “for the people” prosecutor to criminal defense, from mommy wine culture to DUI, from breakdown to a different kind of service. Her story shows how tables turn when health, addiction, and the justice system collide, and how recovery can reshape the way our work and values line up.

Press play to explore how our hardest chapters can become a blueprint for starting again, on our own terms, with our whole lives in the room.

• Growing up with a pioneering female lawyer and choosing public service
• What it really means to be a prosecutor versus a criminal defense attorney
• Multi‑generational cancer, BRCA, and a breast cancer diagnosis at 37
• Double mastectomy, complications, and life in long‑term treatment
• The quiet slide from “normal drinking” into addiction and DUI
• Getting sober in the same community served as a prosecutor
• Mental health collapse, PTSD, and leaving a stable government job
• Midlife, menopause, and building a new legal practice around real values
• Finding support in recovery, women’s circles, and local service
• Boundaries, protecting our energy, and not abandoning ourselves again

Connect with Heather: 

Website
LinkedIn
Instagram
Facebook
YouTube

Episode Highlights:
01:42 Meet Jenica— A Life-Changing Career Transition 
09:41 Jenica's Family Influence and Career Choices
15:13 Encounters with Former Defendants and The Power of Respect
18:53 A Family of Cancer Survivors 
24:28 Surgical Complications, Expanders, and Multiple Surgeries
30:25 Tubbs Fire, Evacuation, and Running the PTA While on Chemo
36:21 Surgical Menopause, Meds, and Long-Term Side Effects
41:44 Pain, Mastectomy, Recovery, & Online Support
48:11 The DUI Arrest that Changed Everything 
53:39 Getting Sober in the Same Community You Prosecuted
01:02:22 Grace, Self-Compassion, and Doing Your Best in a Hard World

Resources:
💲Discount
CLEARSTEM
Get a 15% discount when you shop at: clearstem.com
Use Heather’s Code: SFVXPHXB
🔗Link: https://clearstem.com/SFVXPHXB

Connect with Jenica: 

Jenica Leonard is a Sonoma County–based criminal defense attorney with over 15 years of experience, including a career as a former prosecutor in the Sonoma County District Attorney’s Office. A second-generation attorney, she now advocates for individuals in the criminal justice system, focusing on protecting constitutional rights.

She is deeply engaged in community service and women’s empowerment, serving on the Board of Women’s Recovery Services. A breast cancer survivor and woman in long-term sobriety, Jenica brings lived experience into her work, using it to uplift other women and contribute meaningfully to her community.

LinkedIn

Transcript

Hey ladies, it's your host, Heather Nelson, welcoming you to another season of Life Conversations With A Twist. This is a space where we dive into stories of remarkable women who've conquered challenges and emerged stronger. Join me each week as we unravel tales of resilience, triumph and empowerment. These narratives aren't just stories. These are stories of inspiration, and I'm so honored to have the space to share them with you. Plus, I will be sharing my own personal stories of inspiration as I navigate starting my own business and achieving my own goals. So whether you're driving in the car or out moving your body, get ready for heartwarming stories and empowering conversations together. Let's raise a virtual toast to empowerment, because here at Life Conversations With A Twist, every story has the power to inspire. Cheers, ladies.

Heather Nelson: Hello everyone. Welcome to this week's Life Conversations With A Twist. I have the honor of having Jenica on. We just officially met, but we definitely know a lot of the same people in our community. And I'm sure that we probably have chatted at some point in our lives. I'm so excited to have you on, so welcome to the podcast. 

Jenica Leonard: Thanks. I'm so excited to be here. I'm glad that we got connected.

Heather Nelson: I was just saying that your journey through life is pretty impressive. You definitely have had a lot of highs and lows, so I can't wait to dive in. And I'm sure every part of your journey is going to trigger something for someone, or inspire somebody who might be going through it, so I appreciate you coming on, and being open to having this conversation. Tell our listeners a little bit about who you are, and where you live. I always like to say age, just so people can put in perspective where you're sitting in your life, and then we're going to dive in.

Jenica Leonard: Awesome. So my name is Jenica. I live in Sonoma County, Santa Rosa specifically. I'm originally from the Bay Area, Redwood City before it became Tech Central, what we used to call the .com. And I, as of October 1, have hung up my shingle as a local criminal defense attorney. Before that, I was a local prosecutor for 15 years in Sonoma County. So right now, I've just hung out my shingle, and I'm slowly starting to figure out what I want to do next, and who I want to be when I grow up, which sounds crazy. Maybe not for a 46 year old woman who's had the Candy Land-esque journey that I have with, or maybe shoots and ladders with ups and downs. But I very much feel like right now, I'm finally figuring out who I am, or at least allowing who I am to drive what I do, and how I live my life. Instead of keeping  separate worlds of my work persona and my real life, I call it like real life. So my gym people, I've just let all of the universes collide and cross pollinate working with other women, and really trying to centralize lifting other women up in everything I do that I can. And right now, as part of, well, since June of last year, I was on the Women's Recovery Services Board. I am a standing board member of women's recovery services as well, which has been just the most amazing opportunity to work with a major thought leader in the recovery space, specifically focusing on women and children.

Heather Nelson: I would love to have her on the podcast as well, and that is how we got connected. A mutual friend, Samantha, plans their events. I've attended, and I've also helped work. But what they do for our community is so inspiring and empowering that we need more people like that that are showing up for women. And we'll dive through that, because it sounds like that was part of your journey of why you're part of it.

Jenica Leonard: And Diane Madrigal who's the current ED is, I don't use the term thought leader. It's not something lawyers talk about, really. But for this space right now, especially in the face of $20 billion budget cuts for mental health services, which of course, most women in recovery have, she's just such a leader and a stalwart, calm figure even in the face of such adversity for both her clients and the operation, the nonprofit. But yeah, Diane's amazing. 

Heather Nelson: I need to tell Samantha to get her on my podcast too. I want to ask this because I'm curious. You mentioned that you were a criminal defense attorney, and then you were a prosecutor. Can you talk to me, because I don't know what the difference is. I'm just curious, because I know this is going to open up lots of questions for me. 

Jenica Leonard: Yeah. Funny, my friend at the gym, Jill, asked me the same thing today. So a prosecutor is also known as a district attorney in California. Sometimes, they're called states attorneys in states that have smaller counties or aren't as large as California. So prosecutor, District Attorney, State's Attorney. Basically, when I was a prosecutor, our job is to represent the state. And therefore, the people of California in enforcing the law and meting out punishment for those who violate the law. So you're against the criminal. We'd call on the other side of the V, so it's usually plaintiff versus defendant. In my first 15 years of my career, I was on the left side of the V representing the people. So another way to think of it is I did what Kamala Harris did in San Francisco, not on the same level. I'm not her. But when she says Kamala Harris for the people, it is because that is how attorneys introduce themselves. Every attorney, when they go to court, they have to make an appearance. You state your name, and you state which party you're representing. And I always said, Jenica Leonard for the people. So when you listen to Kamala Harris talk about that and really centered in her campaign, that's for the people part. So now, I'm on the other side of the V as a criminal defense attorney. And the way I would say that is, yes, we are representing criminals, but I don't really love that word. We are representing people who are involved in criminal justice, and who have found themselves on the wrong side of the law. And we do represent those people. 

But more importantly, or as importantly now, we also represent a protection of the constitution. So when somebody gets involved in the criminal justice system, my job is to make sure everyone from the first time were contacted all the way through to the prosecutor are doing it fairly, and within the bounds of the constitution. So now, I represent the actual people, the people, little T, little P, as opposed to big T, big P. I feel very strongly that I also represent the constitution. And as we can see through what's going on right now, that's something that needs to happen. 

Heather Nelson: Well, thank you for doing that work. When you were growing up, is that something you always wanted to do? How did that fall into your lap?

Jenica Leonard: It's so bad. It's not really bad. My mom is an attorney, so I'm a second generation female attorney. My mom did civil law, which is what most people think about. So the opposite show. Not law and order, but maybe suits. I haven't watched it, but my son has. My mom did civil defense for insurance companies back in the day, and so from at least high school, but probably before I knew I wanted to follow in my mom's footsteps. And those conversations at our house were always interesting and a bit fraught. Because my mom back in the day, she was an attorney, starting in the 70s, 80s and 90s where the glass ceiling hadn't been shattered. So she was navigating the minefields, the big, huge shoulder pads to make you look taller and bigger. You had to wear skirts, and you had to wear pantyhose. My mom tells stories of women getting bounced from court female attorneys for not wearing pantyhose. Or when the male attorneys walked in, being like, go get me a coffee, assuming my mom was the secretary, and that craziness. But also civil law requires a ton of hours, and as we'll probably discuss later. 

My mom was gone a lot. She worked in San Francisco. It's me and my mom, my dad, my sister and I, and she'd be there in the morning. She'd take us to school, and then she wouldn't come back until 10:00 pm midnight. There was a deadline. It would be later, and this was before you could work from home or work from anywhere. And when we would talk about it, she'd be like, I want you to promise that you're not going to be an attorney. And when I am like that, I want to be an attorney. She's like, okay, well then, don't do it. And now I did it. And that conversation's evolved in the last few years, and she's like, I don't even know if I would do it again. She's a brilliant attorney. She's one of the leaders in her field before she retired. It's different now. But also just the grind, it's really hard. And so I think, as a mom, she was really worried about my quality of life. And now that I have my children, their quality of life as well. I went into the legal profession with my eyes very much wide open about what civil practice looks like, and from a pretty young age. Again, high school, maybe before, I was pretty sure I wanted to be a prosecutor. Specifically, a prosecutor is in court all the time, all the things that most lawyers hate. 

Heather Nelson: Well, someone's got to do it, right? Someone has to do this job. 

Jenica Leonard: It's a really good job. My mom's an attorney, and my dad was a civil servant working in water quality and whatever. And so I became an attorney, but also a public servant. I really loved my time as a public servant. It's a really tremendous way to practice both law and other types of work. You don't get paid as much, but the back end of feeling like you're a part of your community was really important to me. And I really love that work.

Heather Nelson: That's so awesome. I'm sure you've seen some crazy stories.

Jenica Leonard: Oh yeah. My mother-in-law, it's her favorite story time.

Heather Nelson: I always am intrigued by people who work in an ER, but then I also even the courts. You see the worst of the worst. I only see it as a documentary because I watch Netflix, and I see these documentaries of these horrible things. But how, especially as a woman and as a mom, how do you change your mindset from when you're home being a mom and going into these courtrooms seeing like the evil of the evil?

Jenica Leonard: Yeah. Everyone handles it differently. For me, I really dislike the unknown. So knowing who's involved with what, what's going on, what are the trends in crime and whatever. And the reality is that I'm pretty realistic, and I'm very discerning about what I consume, as far as thoughts around criminals and whatever. And for me, I don't see it as a separation. I would have told you four years ago, I'm always a prosecutor. Most prosecutors don't even identify as lawyers. If you ask, what do you do? People would say, I'm a prosecutor. But I do have, it turns out, quite a few compartments that I have built in my brain. Thank you to my neuro divergence and my ability to do that. And so when I'm in lawyer mode, I've been told by my clients, I don't want emails from you when you're in lawyer mode because I apparently do code switches is not for people like me, but basically, can go on and off being hyper analytical and just normal in a Jewish family where argument was encouraged and discourse around that, it's just who I am. I have raised two very sassy, back talky, sarcastic boys.

Heather Nelson: So you have two boys. You have a 14 year old and a 12 year old boy. Oh, my God, I love that. Do they love that you're a prosecutor? I would imagine if my mom was, I'd be like, she's a badass.

Jenica Leonard: My 14 year old is just, well, it's interesting, so let me back up. So in Sonoma County, because the groups that I tend to roam around in are pretty liberal, prosecutors don't always have the best reputation. And not as individuals necessarily, but sort of as a monolith. When people talk about the system, prosecutors are very much part of the system, and upholding those systems that are problematic. But I think my kids might have been like, my older boy was 11 when I left the DAs office. I think he thinks it's interesting that I'm a lawyer. And now that he's watched suits, he's like, he wants to be a lawyer. And a very sarcastic part of me, it was like, oh, my God, his graduation announcement will be like the first male lawyer in the family. Because women do that all the time. First female doctor, first female lawyer in the family, and we have done it very much backwards, I guess. According to the patriarchy, backwards. 

Heather Nelson: Do you ever get nervous? Because obviously, your job is here in Sonoma County, and you live in Sonoma County. Do you ever fear seeing people that you've either served or been against in your everyday life? Do you ever worry about that? 

Jenica Leonard: When I was younger? I did. Then as you get older, for me, having kids, which a lot of prosecutors will tell you, maybe not prosecutors, but women having children is huge. It builds in some extra heart into each woman who has children. And I think that if you are very justice inclined, and really, I struggle with injustice. It makes it impossible for me to not see those people, the criminals, as human. And so as part of my journey through this, my first kid, I joke about it being like the Grinch. My first kid broke my heart open a little bit, and then my second kid, and that whole process, because I had a C section with my first, and I had a vaginal birth with my second. Learning about myself in that way, that cracked my heart open a little more. And then my mom had cancer, and then I had cancer, and each person would call trauma, I would say my heart grew, and my empathy that I've always had, I couldn't look away anymore. And it was really hard those last few years in the DA's office as everything started to unravel. But after the murder of George Floyd and the polarization, it became very hard for me to go to work every day and know that some of my colleagues see people as not human. And that's super sucky, because it's just not true. I don't care what your circumstances are, nobody's not human. 

And just like police get sucked into that sort of group thing like, certainly, that was part of my early career. I feel like part of my penance, for lack of a better word, is to try my best to undo the harm that I did in the early parts of my career. And I've been accused of being reverse racist for the perception that I've given certain classes of people better deals than I've given rich white kids. And I was taught from very early on in the DAs office that if you are respectful and do your job, go in, execute the basics, do your job, the defendant really doesn't have a reason to come after you. Are there individuals who are mentally unwell and for whom that is a priority? Yes, they are very few and far between. And even some of the more hardened gangsters that I've prosecuted, I've happened to run into two of them in the last few weeks, because working for myself has given me more flexibility. And tattoos on their faces, we're out in public and big smiles on their faces. Hey, I'm out of prison. It's good to see you. Hey, man, what are you up to? And just to reconnect with them and joke, I have a very dark sense of humor. But a joke with them being like, hey man, when you're at court, I hope you're not here for yourself. He's like, no, no. I'm here for my daughter. We're gonna get custody, whatever. And man, I don't want to say it's like a testament to what I did, but that feels very rewarding to not have made people feel less than when I was upholding systems that are destructive and kind of intended to separate families and whatever.

Heather Nelson: So interesting. What a different perspective. I would think that, yes, they've done bad. And yes, they have to go to jail and reap the punishment of that. But I would imagine that you're literally changing their life by putting them in these situations. And it's probably such a rewarding feeling to see, yes, you did time, and that was the hardest thing I did. But like, look who you become. You can be better, and you can change your life in a different way. So I would imagine that there's a lot of reward behind that.

Jenica Leonard: Yeah. And it's why I think it's so important to see people as human. And that when we send people to prison, we are sending people to prison. We're not warehousing a box, not Amazon. These are people with families. And I would love to say all prosecutors have my same heart, but I know that that's just not true.

Heather Nelson: Yeah. So you mentioned that your mom is a breast cancer survivor, and so are you?

Jenica Leonard: Well, she's a breast cancer survivor twice, and pancreatic cancer once. I'm a breast cancer survivor once, and my dad is a cancer survivor three times. 

Heather Nelson: So that's just been your world for such a long time. I've done a little bit of research, and we were mentioned that I feel like this is where I've seen you. I've seen you on stage. If no one's here from Sonoma County, they do a Sutter and put on this beautiful catwalk event to honor people who have either going through cancer or survivors of cancer. It's like one of the events I always go to, and I always cry. I go to so many nonprofit events, but that one's a tear jerker for me. And I remember seeing you on the stage. Talk about your journey. There's so much that can unpack there, but talk about your journey. 

Jenica Leonard: So when I was 13, my mom had her first breast cancer diagnosis. She was 43. When I was 27, she had her second breast cancer diagnosis. So not past disease, but a second primary breast cancer. After the second round, she got tested for the BRCA mutation or BRCA, because we are Ashkenazi Jewish on a quarter, or a quarter for me, a half for her. She had cancer at an early age. She ends up positive for BRCA2. So BRCA1 is the one that's more prevalent in the Ashkenazi community. We think our genetic mutation came from the Azores, which is a whole other ball of whack. So that's when I was like 27 ish, so I must have gotten my genetic testing done. Think between her diagnoses when I was in my early 20s, so I knew I had the gene since I was in my 20s. So because of that, that means I got quarterly screening. So a rotation of manual exams, MRIs and mammograms, quarter every four months. But I would do one each time. So manual, three months later. MRI, three months later, or mammogram. So I nursed my second son for two and a half years. Weaned in July of 2026, and had my mammogram once my milk had dried up. And then the next visit was an MRI, and I am told I lit up like a Christmas tree. So because of the MRI, it puts in radioactive dye that flags tumors, essentially. And so I've tested positive for breast cancer after the MRI and multiple biopsies. 

And on April 28 of 2017, one of the nurses called me and she's like, you have cancer. I was at work. My boss, who's also a cancer survivor, was in my office. I took it at work like, I don't know who does that anyway. I was at work knowing I was going to get these results. I already knew. I have a picture of my son, me and my sons. On the 26th, I already knew I was going to have cancer in my lifetime. Nobody expected it to be at 37. So initially, I was staged at stage zero, or maybe stage one. So similar to my mom's first diagnosis, but you'll remember five years earlier, chronologically. So I was 37 when I was diagnosed. My kids were three and six ish, which is wild when I say it out loud. A lot of this is in the boxes in my brain, like compartmentalized. I knew the diagnosis was coming, and I got staged at stage one and whatever, and went about my business scheduling my mastectomy. 

Since all this happened in 2017, there have been some new guidelines that have come out that say, you need to have your breasts removed within six weeks. There was not that sense of urgency with me in 2017, so I ended up having my mastectomy four days after my 38th birthday on June 12. And there's a whole bunch of stuff they do. You have to have an injection into your nipple to see if your lymph nodes are affected. And it's like a three day process, not including the actual surgery and then recovering. And yeah, I woke up from surgery, an eight or nine hour surgery where they removed both my breasts. They lift the skin up. They scrape all the breast tissue, so from your neck down to your top rib, put you back together. They're called expanders because I wanted to have reconstruction. They're like, oh, yeah, you're stage 3. So when they remove your boobs, the goal is that it just removes the cancer. And so my cancer was on my right side. They had to take the breast tissue from there. Because of my genetic mutation, I already knew in my lifetime that I would have a mastectomy. A lot of people call them pre vivers. Like Angelina Jolie, that surgery that she had a prophylactic mastectomy is what I essentially did on the other side. So one had to come off because of the cancer. Would my treatment have looked different if I wasn't a genetic carrier, maybe, but I already knew because of my mom's experience, what was kind of ahead for me, right? 

So I woke up and they're like, you're stage three. And part of me, and this is gonna sound wild, I was relieved. Because with stage one, it's like surgery and then nothing. Stage two, it's like surgery, radiation, and maybe a little chemo. And so there was some part of me that's like, when they told me I was stage three, it was like, oh, I'm gonna earn this diagnosis. It's a real diagnosis, which is a really weird thing to think of, and it really dismisses women who get earlier diagnoses. But it's how my brain works. So women talk about who goes through cancer treatment, talk about the conveyor belt. So I got on the conveyor belt. I met an oncologist. I started chemo and all that. But at the same time, when I woke up from surgery, this young woman doctor at Kaiser was rounding and she's like, that spot on your left breast looks bad. It was kind of dusky, so they put me back together with glue and stuff. And there was a piece of, one of the surgical areas that was sort of like dusty, gray, whatever. And she was like, yeah, that doesn't look good. I'm worried about tissue death and whatever. And because she's a newbie and she spotted it, the other doctors came in and they're like, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. It was not fine, so I ended up with an inch square. It's called ESGAR. Imagine a really nasty scab, but it's leathery. 

And so basically, I had a gaping hole in my chest that was being held together by not viable flesh. So as I'm starting chemo, I'm also going in and out of the plastic surgeon's office trying to save this surgery. And on one of my plastic surgery visits, they were like poking at it, and it was sort of like scars heal slowly. I heal slowly because of some other genetic weird stuff I have, and they were just really hoping. And then at the doctor's office, it basically sloughed off. And because it's left off, that means my implant was exposed. And if your implants are exposed, there is a risk of infection. I was whisked off, and they took out my implant. And so then I was lopsided for a long time. 

I think I ended up having like nine surgeries in 24 months to fix what Kaiser did initially. I want to say it was Kaiser in Santa Clara that I had my surgery with, and then all of the other stuff I did up here. I did it down there because that's where my parents live. So yeah, not ideal, and definitely fast tracked my post traumatic stress disorder. And in the moment as a mom, as a person, I wasn't working. But as a person who did not have anything to do but to keep moving forward, I did, and arguably did not, and have not, probably processed all of that on a very deep level. But there's also a certain part of me, because I've been through this so many times with my mom, grandparents and whatever. It's like, okay, not why me. There was a day of that. And then I'm like, why you, and why not me? So that reframe, why not me? And honestly, I have a graduate degree. I'm really bright, I have family support, I have the money that I need. I'm privileged in that way, so better me than somebody else. Not that that works that way. There were a lot of complications. So kind of flash forward, I have my ovaries taken out in March of 2019. They put the expander back in, and I went through the whole process again. And so you have expanders, which just think of them as really crappy implants, and they're filled with water, and it's how they stretch the muscle and the pop.

Heather Nelson: It's not like an actual breast implant where you have like big, they're just temporary kind of holders?

Jenica Leonard: Yeah. They're holders, but they get made bigger. They take syringes, and there's a little magnetic piece on the port of the implant. It's an expander. They put a needle into the expander, into the metal part, and they expand, they increase the volume with saline to create the pocket that your eventual implant then sits in. So I have the expander put back in. Now, I'm not symmetrical, but I'm headed there. So then you do a swap. So you swap both for implants. Did that, and I had trouble healing again. And one side wouldn't close, and then that one opened. I'd gone back to work at this point. So I'd be sitting at work and I feel this trickle of fluid on my belly, and I look down and I'm like, it's not blood. It's called serous fluid. It's when you scrape yourself, and not like clear, yellowy stuff or a tattoo, that stuff. It's just that stuff. So not super gross, but coming out of my body. I would go into the same boss's office and be like, I need to go to Kaiser. And that happened twice, three times. I had to have like one tits up. I had to get that one replaced, not emergency ER, but like emergently. Because once you have an open system infection, so I had to get that one fixed, and then the same thing happened again.

Heather Nelson: Did you have to do chemo and radiation too?

Jenica Leonard: Yeah. I skipped over that part because honestly, that was the worst part of the story. It's part of my story, and it happened to me. But it is the least impactful thing, and was the least, I mean, I wasn't sick. I lost my hair. I looked great. I didn't lose my eyebrows. SIt's Sonoma County, people just thought it was like a fashion statement, and I didn't feel like crap. I slept a lot. I was very tired, but I wasn't working. I was fortunate to be able to kind of rest when the kids were at school, and then get back into it. And at the same time, I had volunteered to be the PTA president of Hidden Valley Elementary because I figured I'd have some free time. I don't always make the best choices. So that was in like, whatever, August. And then the Tubbs fire hit and burned down our school, so we had the satellite campus. 

Half the kids lost their school, half the kids lost their homes, and then another group lost both. So that was a nice distraction, evacuating. Calling Kaiser in Santa Clara saying, I don't want to. When you're a mom, when you're a type A, I'm like, I need my chemo on schedule. And it's so anxiety producing to miss. If you miss, are you gonna die? Whatever. So I'm calling Santa Clara as we're evacuating on one on one, and like, hey, can I come in? And the nice lady was like, I don't know what you're talking about. There's no fire. We haven't heard anything. I'm like, no, literally, my town is burning down. And she's like, why don't you just go to Marin? And I like it, because I'm not staying in Marin. Our house was still under threat. Our house was evacuated. Finally, hours later, she called and she's like, we've been officially told by Kaiser to start taking any patients we can from Kaiser Santa Rosa. So I didn't miss any chemo. I did have to do it in Santa Clara, which has a much different setup than Sonoma County. But yeah, super wild.

***Friends, I have such an exciting product that I need to share with you. Are you someone who hates washing their face at night? Yep, that's me. For years, I never wanted to wash my face. And finally, I found a product that actually gets me excited to wash my face every night, and that is Clear Stem. I have tried so many products over the years to find the one that I truly love, the one that makes my skin glow, the one that makes me feel good when I wash it, and the one that gets me excited to want to wash my face. I discovered Clear Stem through another podcaster, and I was like, I gotta give this a try. I instantly became obsessed. Some of my favorite products are the hydrating cleanser, which I use every night. It smells delicious. It makes my skin feel so great. Once a week, I use their Vitaminscrub, which is an exfoliating cleanser that just has these little micro beads in it that just make your face feel so beautiful. I can just feel them get into my pores and really give my face this huge glow. And then one of my other favorite products is the Hydraberry Mask. And once you wash your face, you put a layer of this on your skin, and you go to sleep and wake up, and your face feels like butter. I get so many compliments on my skin. Now, I don't get a lot of breakouts anymore. My face feels nice, hydrated and bright, and it's all because of the Clear Stem product. What I love about them is that their products are all clean. They're good for your skin, they're good for your body, and they have so many different product lines based on the type of skin you have. So go down in the show notes, and click on the link. I'm giving 15% off to anybody who uses my code. And I promise you, once you try this, you are going to be obsessed just as much as I am. So again, go down to the show notes, click on the link, receive 15% off, and give Clear Stem a try. I promise you will not regret it.

Heather Nelson: So from the time you got diagnosed, are you cancer free? How long was that?

Jenica Leonard: So I was diagnosed in April of 2017, so it'll be 9 years in April since diagnosis. I finished chemo and radiation in, must have been December of 17. So about a year of treatment, and an additional two years of surgeries, different surgeries. And I've had more since then to more cosmetic surgeries to make me look normal in clothing, which I do now. I can't speak for my plastic surgeon who is an absolute doll. He is. I just love him. His name is Dr. Newman. He's at Kaiser. But it felt a little bit a challenge like, let's see how good we can get this. And so I've had other more cosmetic things where they've fat grafted. Because when they take all your breast tissue, you end up with these pretty big divots. A lot of people notice them on trans folks who've had top surgery. It's the same surgery for a different reason. So, yeah, I have had some other little tweaks here and there. And then since March of 18, I've been in menopause. I was in menopause because of chemo, that's chemical menopause. And then I had my surgery in March, and I went into, I mean, no pairing, there was nothing. Just slam.

Heather Nelson: Lucky you. I'm in it and I'm like, what is this? This is a crazy time.

Jenica Leonard: I don't know, there's no mood swings. I just have hot flashes all the time. I've learned to manage them, and I'm on medication for the next five years that does all those same things.

Heather Nelson: Once you are clear of cancer, are there treatments you have to do? Is there medication you do?

Jenica Leonard: Yeah, still. So because I don't have ovaries, which puts me in menopause, I do what all the old ladies do. So it's called an aromatase inhibitor. And because I was so young and in menopause, you also do an IV infusion of this medication called a bisphosphonate, I think that's how you say it, which helps keep calcium in your bones. And as if all of my trauma wasn't traumatic enough, after my third or fourth infusion, I had a one in a whatever small percentage, like 7% of people nationwide have this side effect, and I had it. It is maybe the single most upsetting of all the things that happened to me, and it's that I had jaw bone necrosis. So for me, it was very mild, caught very early, spoiler alert. It resolved, but your jawbone is basically dying. So I had a spot on the inside of my jaw, and I have beautiful teeth. I love my teeth. I've always taken good care of them, and all my anxiety dreams are about losing my teeth. And here I am, 38 years old with a hole in my jaw. So it healed, much like a scab healing, basically the tissue behind it. Push this piece of bone, because it was really small. Push this piece of bone out as it kind of heals, but the surgery to correct that is to have your femur bisected and to rebuild your face. 

Heather Nelson: Oh, my God. And you had that done. 

Jenica Leonard: I did not. I didn't have to. It healed on its own. I am a huge proponent of not googling things when you've been diagnosed with something because, A, unhelpful people who think they're being helpful will do that for you. And for somebody like me that's diagnosed at 37, stage 3c, what do the numbers mean to me?I have a grandmother who survived stage three ovarian cancer, a mom who has survived two types of breast cancer and pancreatic cancer. I don't want to know the numbers. My sister is the numbers lady. I was just like, whatever. But when it came to the jaw bone necrosis, I was like, I don't know anything about this so I need to inform myself what this might look like, and don't google it.

Heather Nelson: That's what everyone's like. I just Googled it. I was like, it's probably not the best advice out there.

Jenica Leonard: I'm Jewish. It's like, listen between your family and WebMD, you definitely are dying of something. 

Heather Nelson: During this process, who was your biggest support system? 

Jenica Leonard: Oh, geez. Women, my mom, my sister. My best friend, Emily, all who live on the peninsula. And then while I was waiting for surgery, I reached out to other people who I felt close and safe with, and I called it feathering my nest. I went out to lunch with my Doula and talked to her about it. I had an acupuncturist that's in town here, Lorelle Saxena, who's just amazing. People that I would say are like friends in that way, but like literal support, life saving, mutual aid, helper people, and my kids. A theme in my life is that I am pretty self sufficient and take care of myself pretty well, and so giving myself the props. I know there are women whose husbands go to every appointment with them, and every chemo with them. And this is not a dig at my husband, but that is not my husband. And so I went to chemo with my girlfriends, with local victim advocates that I'd worked with. People showed up for me. But a lot of it was ME just doing what I do, which is to wander around and chat with people, and take care of myself as needed. My mom was like boots on the ground when I had my mastectomy. My grandpa was so sick. My grandpa had just died before my mastectomy, so we still had the hospital bed at my parents house, because he died there in my parents house. So then, we just used it for me, because we're very thrifty. That wasn't part of it, but it was great. Because when you have a mastectomy, it feels like you've been hit in the center mass in your chest by a bus. It is the worst pain I have ever been in in my entire life, and that includes C sections, broken elbows, tattoos.

Heather Nelson: Never had a surgery ever.

Jenica Leonard: Well, yeah, good for you. Not me. The other huge support that I cannot leave out is the Young Survival Coalition Facebook group. It's just what you think it is. It's like a bunch of women asking wild ass questions because Google's not giving them the right answer and mutual aid. Oh, here's what happened to me and whatever. And then through that, I met just some really tremendous women. One of them is a woman named Grace who has a blog called Grancer, and it was her journey through breast cancer and just whip smart, hilarious. We formed a real life, offline friendship around it. She was about a year ahead of me, so it was like every blog entry, I just got to follow along with her journey while I was going through my journey. 

Heather Nelson: I love that. I feel like so many people are probably listening, especially I've been seeing more breast cancer stories coming out, people being diagnosed at such a young age, like 30s. What piece of advice, because you have been in it, and you've been around it for so long, speaking to that woman who probably just got that news, what kind of advice do you have for them? 

Jenica Leonard: Set up a meal train even if you don't think you want or need it. And when you get the call, ask them to fill a prescription for anti anxiety medication. Why that isn't standard of care is beyond me. I had to beg. And then this will tie in later. Definitely part of my descent into alcoholism. I get diagnosed, and now I'm home with my kids. It's summer break. No, it wasn't summer break yet. So it was the end of school. I'm not working. I should have stayed working to the best of my ability, and it's super lonely. And in a time of such deep disconnection of women from other women and their elders, and oftentimes, their cultural connections, find your people. I don't care what that looks like for you. You need to find them. Because even if you have the most supportive family, friends, whatever, there is just the reality that they are not capable of understanding what you are going through. And I will say to this point, even my mother who has been through this herself three times will tell you that she cannot imagine going through what I went through at 37. And if she doesn't get it, Lord knows, right? And that just speaks to the humanity of all of us. We're all so different. Maybe you're not a group person. I'm a group person. I'm like, find me people to talk to, sit me down, maybe some meditation. But hopefully, find your people, get tattoos, whatever you do, whatever you want.

Heather Nelson: So you scraped on the surface of bottling addiction. Did this come post cancer experience?

Jenica Leonard: I know addiction runs in my family. I would call a problem drinker since I was in college, since I had unfettered access to alcohol. And unlike most people who grow up and age out of it, I didn't. And then when I was diagnosed with cancer, I had all this free time. So how better to spend it then, drinking with strangers. And it wasn't like that all the time. When I first was diagnosed, my kids were still little so I was home more, and it coincided with the first Trump presidency, which also didn't help my drinking. And yeah, there is total access. I just felt totally unmoored and not ready to give up and throw in the towel. But what the fuck else am I supposed to do? I've got a five and a three year old, and I have fucking cancer. Yes, there's people I can talk to, but it's my job to get through each day. That is my job. And that's hard. So mommy wine culture was that helpful to me. Was alcohol a tool I used to get through my days? Yes. Did it get progressively worse, as it always does? Also yes. And the pandemic didn't help. Just poured literal alcohol on an alcohol fire. Those early months where people were everyone's like, yes, yes, yes, all of it. I just had more. Put that up to join me now. It really took any rails gone, just completely gone. I lost my mind during the pandemic because I had a kindergartner and a third grader. So that's all, am I an alcoholic? 100%. Did I drink alcoholically before I was diagnosed? Absolutely. Was it my favorite tool for dealing with everything? 100%. Insecurity, frustration, anger, happiness, you name it. I throw alcohol at it. 

Heather Nelson: Was there a day or a thing that happened that you were like, this can't be how my life is. 

Jenica Leonard: I feel like at the end, it was like every morning felt that way. And by noon, I'd be like, I'm good. I totally got this. And I wasn't a morning drinker. After school special, but maybe a little bit towards the end. I was headed out of town to join my friend for a big breast cancer related bash in Washington, DC. It was a Friday, and I went out with my girlfriend at lunchtime. Had a few beers and didn't go back to work, and kept drinking. I got arrested for DUI, and that was it for me. And it wasn't a realization, like an overnight aha moment. It was the last straw. I was like, I always knew. 

Heather Nelson: I sit there all the time. I'm like, I know that I shouldn't drink. I know it makes me feel like crap. It makes me fight with my husband. Unmotivates me. But it's such a thing, this social thing that we will all just embrace it. Oh, let's have a quick glass of wine. My favorite is having a glass of wine with lunch. If I'm sitting with someone and I'm like, I'm not gonna drink today. And they're like, let's have a glass of wine. I'm like, okay. 

Jenica Leonard: In Sonoma County where there's nothing to do besides hiking that doesn't involve booze, and even like that involved, and I really had that. I had that same feeling as well. And the last few months into my sobriety journey, so over three years now, has been finding what it is I actually like to do. Because it turns out that when you're hammered, or drinking, or looking for alcohol, you end up, and I don't mean like seedy places, you just, what ambition? Who cares? I'm just gonna go to the bar. It's so easy rediscovering what those things are. But yeah, I got arrested. Wasn't great, and effectively ended my career. Everything happens for a reason, but there was a moment of weakness in my soul that we call it the window that allowed that event to actually penetrate my brain and actually got me sober. It was the next day. I called my mom and dad. I was like, I've been arrested. Called my aunt and uncle who've had kids with addiction issues, whatever. And other people that I know in my life that have been through rehabilitation. And my attorney. And a lot of people, mostly lawyers, were like, don't worry about it. You don't have a problem. You're fine. And yeah, of course you would say that because you and I used to drink together. You know how I drink, and I know how you drink, and I disagree that none of us have a problem. And I was discouraged from going to local AA meetings because I might see people I ran that I put there. You asked about earlier, and the local AA community was the best thing I could have done for myself because I'm not special. I've never felt special, and people think prosecutors are special. 

But I never felt it was weird. I don't feel special, so why should I put myself in a different place than these other people? And really dovetails into who I am, which is like, I really, truly do not believe I'm better than anyone else. I do see people. But what a great lesson for those people, quote unquote, to see that we are just like them. Doctors, lawyers, dentists, moms, dads, whatever. Nobody gets out of being an alcoholic if they're an alcoholic. Unless you're one of the ones who had such great lessons from your parents that you just never drank, which doesn't mean you're an alcoholic or not. It just means you don't know.

Heather Nelson: You said in the beginning that you are in a place now, after everything that you've been through, especially with your career and your personal life, and you are now combining them into one. Talk about what life looks like for you? What mission are you on now after having gone through all this trauma?

Jenica Leonard: I'm 46. I'm kind of mid-life. I think that's about maybe a little old. I had a nervous break, whatever you want to call them. I don't know what people actually call them, but I had a nervous breakdown in July because of some stuff that was happening at my former job. A terrible July. And I finally was like, enough. I dealt with my physical issues. Had the cancer, got that out of the way. Dealt with my drinking, or dealt with my drinking, which helped my mental health. Got medicated because it's hard to get medicated for PTSD and ADHD. When you're drunk or hungover, your potassium levels are like, it just doesn't work, right, and you don't know what the effects are. And then it was like, time for me to take care of my mental health. So that's what I did. Put myself into an outpatient mental health class through Kaiser. I'm still in therapy to fix that last bit. And so my goal where I'm at now is I want to do as much good as I can with the time I have left on earth, and to keep it as local as possible without abandoning myself, because that is what I've been noodling on when I drive around and stuff. I have a tape that goes constantly because of my brain, and I've been in a state of resentment for a very large part of my life because of choices I've made, and places I put myself because I think it's where I should be. And so when I was listening to Wicked yesterday, because sometimes, you have to range scream musicals in your car to feel better. At least I do. It's time for me to defy gravity. And in the rooms, say the rooms is what we call AA, it's like getting out of your own way. 

Or if you just take the next right step, miracles will happen. And I am the first to tell you, I am furious that AA is right, because we all feel very special. And how could it work for us because we're so special, and things are falling into place. I've lived in this county for 20 years, and I've never had as many, I'll say friends/acquaintances, as I have now. And there are people at the gym who ask about me and want to know how I'm doing, and appreciate how I show up. And all I can think that has changed is that I'm getting better. I'm not self abandoning, and I'm just being who I am. I don't mean like wanting to be who I am or acting like the person who I think I should be. I mean, just who I am. So we talk about unmasking that whole process. And when you lose 10 pounds and people are like, oh, my God, you look great. People are doing that to me, and I haven't lost any weight. I'm not miserable all the time. I know part of it is just being a mom and like, I will not discount that my kids are older makes it so much easier in a lot of ways. Teenagers are hard, but it's not that desperate need for my physical being to meet that need. 

I can take care of myself, go to the gym, take my meds, go to therapy, take a flying leap off a building, and open my own practice because I don't want to be abused by bosses anymore. And for me, I don't have a lot of internal self esteem. And so I have created, like back to that feathering my nest, or like a web of people who will tell me regularly, I wish you could see how amazing you are. And I have forced myself to believe them even if I don't understand it. And that has given me the reserves I need to just muddle along and figure it out, and show up how I can, and when I can without completely losing myself because I disappeared 100% for at least the last 8 years, maybe 10, maybe more. 

Heather Nelson: This reel keeps popping up. I feel like people have sent it and stuff about how, I forget what it's like. But basically, where we sit in our age group, this is the time for us to make a difference. We've gone through all the mud, we've been through all the ugly, I've been through divorce, remarried, all the things that we go through in that part of our lives. And now we get to a point where we're like, now we can lean into who we are, and who we deserve to be. And to show up for our community and do the good work. I feel like that's where you're sitting as well.

Jenica Leonard: And I think it's interesting that you say that, because I think it's like, I don't know what the statistics are, but it definitely doesn't feel like 100% of us are there. I very much feel like there's a bit of a trail of people who can't, won't, whatever, get on board. And I, the way my friend Regina says it is, I don't hate you. I don't dislike you. I'm just not allowing you to access my energy.

Heather Nelson: Oh, my god, I say that all the time. I'm like, I am not letting negative energy. Everyone's like, oh, why did he said this? Why didn't you feed into it? I was like, because I'm not gonna give it my energy. Let's release. Thank you. No, thank you. And just don't be around those people that bring you down.

Jenica Leonard: Give people grace. It is a miserable time to be on this planet right now. I don't care who you are, and so I will go so far. I'm totally weird, and my kids hate it. But I'll ask the checker at Safeway, whatever, hey, how's your day going? And they're like, hmm. I'm like, I just want to tell you, I think you're doing a great job. And it's a really hard time to be a human right now. Keep up the good work. And they change, they become better, whatever, maybe not. But just acknowledgement, just say the thing. We come from a generation of people who didn't say anything, and they suffered, and they suffered, and they deny and whatever. Your parents were the greatest generation. You have all the money, and you're still miserable. So we who don't have the money will at least live our lives and try to find some happiness. And the people that want to grind until they're dead or have to whatever, God bless you, because it's not for me. No, I've done it. I had cancer at 37. I don't want to do that again. Not the cancer part, just any of it. I just want to not feel awful all the time. We hold the power to do that. We can't wait for anyone else to give it to us, or fix our problems, or we have to show up and do the work. I feel like you probably do too. 

I was sold the lie, right? If you just go to college, get a career, everything's gonna be great. I'm not gonna lie. My life is very great. I have a lot of privileges. I have a home. My children are safe. My family is safe. I will not deny that I am a very lucky person. But it was a lie. It was a lie. It's not possible. And is it possible for individuals? Yes. Is it possible as the collective of 40 to 55 year old women that we're just, we got it. We are bosses, and at whose expense? My mom says, I don't know how you girls do it. I'm like, you were an attorney with two children. What are you talking about? And she's like, nobody expected me to show up for anything. No one expected me to show up to your recitals, your games, nothing. And they expect you to not only be a better lawyer than me, but to be a better mom than I was. And I was like, damn. This horrible mashup of feminism and tradwife. I can't be both, so I'm gonna just be myself. 

Heather Nelson: We have talked about so much stuff. Is there anything part of your journey that you want to touch on that has influenced where you are today?

Jenica Leonard: Yeah. This is just a little tiny piece, but we talk about the age we're at now. I have loved my friends since I was a child. I don't have a ton of them. I've always had a very, very small circle. But man, the women you meet in the trenches are amazing. My two best friends, Nora and Regina, have been like, the three of us are very different. We work very different careers. Our kids are different ages. We have nothing in common other than we love each other, and that we're empathic, humanitarians, or whatever. But yeah, man, those I heard a thing on NPR. I wish I had written it down. It was when I was in treatment. When you just catch those ends like Terry Gross or somebody, you're like, that's really good. They were talking about relationships after trauma and the guests said, the people who knew you before, they only want the old you back. And the people that you meet on the way don't know who you were, and it's so much easier on some level with those people. So like family, you've got all your installed buttons, all the trauma and whatever that you all went through. But then you meet these other people and they're like, I like this version. It's you, and it's your current self. So I say to women who are in the midst of trauma and discovering who they are, give yourself grace around that. You did the best you could. And this environment, this world is not an easy place to be a woman. Even if it's just looking at yourself in the mirror when you put your makeup on and being like you are doing the best you can, because we're all told by every format possible that we're not, and it's all in the eye of the beholder. So if you're doing your best and your best is your 20%, then that's your best that day. So put in front of the other.

Heather Nelson: My why for this podcast is to be able to have women talk about their stories, talk about their journeys, be okay with it, accept their journeys, inspire others, because we've been told to shut up and not say anything, and hide behind the doors and be ashamed of these things, and it's like, no.

Jenica Leonard: It's so universal. I was raised by a female attorney who was a staunch feminist, and she struggles, I struggle. It's like, that's how you know that the patriarchy is such bullshit. Because if she couldn't get out of it, sure, we all navigated those challenging things. I've just decided to stop putting myself in places that make me feel like shit, because that's super easy for me to find. I'll just go walk into, name the store, I can find people that hate me anywhere, so I've really focused on finding people. I'm not for everyone. If you like me, you love me. If you think I'm a crazy person, you fucking hate me.

Heather Nelson: So it's also like, who cares what those people think anyways. Somebody asked me, how do you deal with negativity? And I was like, I just don't allow it. I just don't give it my energy, I don't give it the time. I'm like, I know I'm on a good path, and I know that I do good work. So all the other crap, who cares? And if somebody has an opinion about me, then don't follow me.

Jenica Leonard: I'm such a big fan of fake it till you make it. And also, other people's opinions of you is not your business. And that has been transformational for me. And co-worker situations, I had some co-workers at the DAs office who absolutely hated me for reasons that I never understood, never was told, whatever. And it was just like, whatever feelings you have about me and you think I'm a certain way, then you don't know me. I bless and release you.

Heather Nelson: I say that all the time, bless and release. Bye,. You have such an incredible story. I love the path that you're on, and the journey that you're on, and I think that so many women in Sonoma County need to hear this story. They need to hear your voice, and I can't wait to see what's next for you. And especially taking the risk of doing your own thing and saying, fuck it, to everybody else, so thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being open and honest about your story, and I cannot wait to stay connected and see what's next for you.

Jenica Leonard: Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it.

Heather Nelson: I hope today's episode resonated with you. And if it did, don't keep it to yourself. Spread inspiration. Share this episode on your socials, and tag me. And if there's anyone in your life who can use a dose of encouragement, pass it along. Looking forward to continuing this journey of inspiration with you. Until next time, stay empowered and connected.