13 Years Sober — Kate Bee on Quitting Wine Culture for Good

"Behind every craving for alcohol is some unmet need. Alcohol is like a sticking plaster." — Kate Bee

There's a kind of struggling with alcohol that never makes it into the movies. No crash, no rock bottom — just years of feeling like something's a little off every time you reach for a glass of wine.

Kate Bee knows that feeling well. She spent her twenties and most of her adult life before thirty in what she calls the gray area, before finally stopping — for good — thirteen years ago. Since then, she's built The Sober School and helped more than 4,000 women rethink their relationship with alcohol without shame or a lifelong label. Kate and I talk about mommy wine culture, the 100-day mindset shift that finally worked for her, and the confidence that showed up once she stopped numbing it.

If you've ever wondered whether you need permission to question your relationship with alcohol, this conversation might be exactly what you need to hear. New episodes every Thursday on all major podcast platforms.

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Timestamps

• 00:00 — Introduction — Heather welcomes Kate Bee
• 03:12 — Kate's early drinking years and life without a "rock bottom"
• 13:05 — Mommy wine culture and how alcohol gets marketed to women
• 18:33 — The 100-day mindset shift that finally worked
• 20:30 — What changed in Kate's body, career, and confidence
• 23:34 — Heather's own honest reflection on her relationship with wine
• 40:24 — Where to connect with Kate Bee and The Sober School 

About Kate Bee

Kate Bee is the founder of The Sober School, a coaching platform that helps women stop drinking and start living — without shame, labels, or deprivation. A former BBC journalist and certified life coach, Kate now empowers women across the globe to navigate alcohol-free living with confidence and joy. Her flagship program, Getting Unstuck, has supported more than 4,000 women in transforming their relationship with alcohol. Kate lives near Manchester, UK.

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Transcript

Kate Bee: You got to make the decision going into it that you are not going to drink, and embody this badass energy. This doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what liquid is in my glass. I'm not here to drink the same liquid as other people. I'm here to network, to socialize. I am worthy just because I am, and have that energy about it.

Heather Nelson: Welcome to Her Story Unscripted. I'm your host, Heather Nelson, a connector, business strategist, and someone who truly believes that the most powerful conversations happen when we stop performing and start being real. This podcast is a space for women to share honest, unscripted conversations about life, growth, and the experiences that have shaped who we are. No perfectly polished narratives, no pressure to have it all figured out, just real, authentic stories told exactly as they are. 

Hello, everyone. Welcome to this week's Her Story Unscripted. I am very excited to have Kate on this beautiful Monday morning. Her and I just virtually met, but her subject is definitely something that's been sitting in my heart, and in my soul, and a lot of people in my world. And we're going to talk about the world of being sober, and so I cannot wait to have this conversation with you. Welcome to the podcast. 

Kate Bee: Thank you, Heather. Thank you for having me on. I'm excited to talk about this. 

Heather Nelson: I'm like, as soon as I get emails from different guests to come on, and I was like, yes, yes, yes. I always feel that my guests come on at certain parts of my life, or certain parts of days where I'm like, okay, this is a conversation that I know is needed in my life, and is going to sit, so I'm really excited. So where are you from? You have a beautiful accent. Where are you from? 

Kate Bee: Thank you. I live near Manchester in the UK. I'm British, and kind of makes sense because we have a big drinking culture over here that I think you do in the states as well. 

Heather Nelson: Well, I sit in Sonoma County, which is like the wine country of the world. Pretty much, at least in California. And so we are around alcohol. Clearly, wine is a big thing around here. And I've always had jobs where I entertained clients, and that was what my job was for 12 years. And whether that was going to coffee, or having lunch and having a glass of wine, or going wine tasting, or going to dinner, alcohol has always just been in my life. And it's one of those things that I know is physically hurting me. I can feel it in my body when I drink it, and I feel like crap the next day. It unmotivates me and all these reasons, but still, I struggle to say, why do I need it? Or I'm like, I'm good. I'll do it only once a week. And then when I do it, I go all out, and then I feel horrible about it. So I'm really excited to have this conversation because I know that I'm not alone. I know a lot of women in my life that are going through that. So talk about your journey because wherever people are trying to educate people and to support people, I think it always comes from a story. And so tell us a little bit about yours.

Kate Bee: Yeah, thank you. Like so many women of our generation, I started drinking quite early when I was a teenager. And just the minute I started drinking, it was a little bit of a problem for me, but not in a huge catastrophic way. It was as if when I started drinking, I discovered the secret to filling in all the gaps and the flaws in my personality. So suddenly, I was better at talking to guys. I was more confident at socializing, dancing, whatever it was. Alcohol was like this, oh, my god, just this thing. I'd grown up watching Sex and the City, and I really thought drinking was glamorous. It's what independent, successful women did. And I went to university, again, there is a massive drinking culture there. And I think the problem for me was that I never had this rock bottom moment. I had this unhealthy, problematic relationship with alcohol from the get go, but nothing really dramatic or bad happened. Not so that you could go, and that was the moment I knew I had to stop. 

Heather Nelson: Some people have those. 

Kate Bee: Yes. Some people have those, and it's the wake up call they need. Or it's one of many wake up calls, maybe. But what I realize is I am not alone in having this experience of really having no dramatic rock bottom. But yet, having a relationship that doesn't feel normal, but it doesn't look like the stereotypes that you see in movies, TV shows about what problem drinking is. So I just spent a really, really long time feeling confused and wondering, wow, this is going to be so awful if I stop drinking. But I don't seem to be able to drink normally. So I just felt completely lost in this no man's land, this gray zone. It's really hard. 

Heather Nelson: How long have you been sober? 

Kate Bee: So I have now been sober for 13 years. I stopped drinking about six months before I turned 30, which I look back now and think, oh, wow, that was probably one of the most sensible things you ever did.

Heather Nelson: I'm really trying to get to that point where I'm like, I just need to stop. I do so well. And then it takes that one moment of, okay, I'm just gonna have a glass of wine. We're gonna go to a winery. We're gonna have a glass of wine, and then one leads to two, and then two leads to a bottle. And then you just wake up the next day, and you are now non-motivated. You feel like crap. I get anxiety. The biggest thing that I've noticed, I'm more of a day drinker. Because I've noticed when I drink at night, the sugar intake really amps me up, and it keeps me awake. And then I have nightmares, and I can't sleep. And it's just this awful pattern. It's one of those things that I know I need to stop, but it's such a social thing. 

Kate Bee: Yeah. So I hear you. And just by the way, on the sleep point in Matthew Walker's book about sleep, he's a sleep expert. He says the only time if you want to drink and not have it affect your sleep, you need to drink in the morning because it takes that long to get alcohol out of your system. But no one is recommending drinking in the morning, obviously. But yeah, it comes with all these side effects, and I think what you're describing there is really, really normal. So you're having these reactions to it that if we were talking about bread or dairy, you'd probably be going, you know what? I think it just doesn't work for me. I think I should maybe stop using it. Maybe I'm a little bit allergic. It doesn't fit with me. But because it's alcohol, we give it second chances, third chances, fourth chances. We are so attached to some of the benefits that we believe it brings. And a big part of my work is helping women see, okay, I'm worried about that. I'm going to lose this, and this, and this. So how can I build up my own skill set so I feel like I could socialize without it, or I could do this without depending on that wine or those cocktails?

Heather Nelson: And what is your advice around that? Because I think that's the thing. Especially even now, I still go to networking events, and there's wine, and now people have gotten better. Now, you have a sparkling water option or water, but it's not a forced thing. But it's almost like, if you don't do it, people are going to question why you don't do it.

Kate Bee: Yeah. I remember having that same concern as well, so I think just two things. First of all, you have to make the decision going into it that you are not going to drink, and embody this badass energy. This doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what liquid is in my glass. I'm not here to drink the same liquid as other people. I'm here to network, to socialize. I am worthy just because I am, and have that energy about it. Because when I first quit drinking, I was very apologetic the whole time, and that invited this negative energy. People would give me a hard time about not drinking and all this stuff. Whereas now, I'm much more like, hey, you want to have a fight about this? I'll take you on. I'm so confident as a non-drinker. So you've got to get your mindset straight. But the second thing is to think, okay, look, maybe I'm just learning a new skill here. Because if you have socialized with alcohol since you were a teenager, it's like a muscle that hasn't been exercised for a while, and now you've got to go to the gym, build those sober muscles, so to speak. And for a little while, it is going to be uncomfortable. But when you master this and suddenly you realize, oh, my god, I'm Heather Nelson. I'm actually really fun to be around. I'm sociable. I'm great. Of course, I can network without a drink. It does change something within you, but it just takes a bit of practice.

Heather Nelson: It's interesting you said the fun thing because you had said that you had used alcohol to make you less of an extrovert, instead of an introvert, because it made you have a little more confidence, and you're more willing to talk to people. I think that's the thing for me that I struggle with. And people are probably going to listen to this and be like, wow, I never really felt that she felt that way. But I've always been a social drinker. I've always been an entertainer. Like, hey, let's go out for drinks. Or I'm always like, let's go to lunch and have a glass of wine. That was almost who I am in a way. I also feel sometimes that I'm like, am I still fun without alcohol? Because I've felt it over the years, I mean, I've been drinking since I'm 21, and I'm 43 years old, so that's 28 years, that is what I struggle with. Am I going to be fun without it? 

Kate Bee: So what does being fun look like to you? 

Heather Nelson: I don't know. I'm like, why do I even think that way? I feel I'm a little more outgoing, and I'm a little more like joking, but I'm also that way sober. So I guess it's like a mental thing in my head that I think that this is who I need to be to have fun. I do have friends that I really enjoy going and having drinks with. Those are the people, and I always have such a good time. But I'm like, why can't I just feel that same way without the alcohol?

Kate Bee: You're a podcast host. You wouldn't be hosting a podcast if you weren't naturally engaging, warm and great to speak to. And I bet all your friends would say they love being around you because of who you are. So it's so funny, the tricks our mind plays on us. And it also just goes to show how we associate certain things together. So you've had these good times with your friends through drinking, and now it seems, oh, wow. Well, what if I take the alcohol away? Will it be so good? But actually, we won't know until you experiment. And I always say to people, don't just go and collect one piece of data. Go and do this four or five times, then come back and we'll draw some conclusions. But because you might be surprised, what if you have a much better time without drinking because you're not numbed and dulled? And actually, you have a a real moment of connection, and actually things feel better. You just don't know.

Heather Nelson: That's so true. I think the number one thing that people are going to say, they drink, at least especially in my world of moms. At the end of the day, they've had a long day. They want to come home. They want to unwind. They want to just chill out. They always have a glass of wine, which again can lead to two, to lead to a bottle. A lot of people joke like, we can't leave a bottle of wine open. We have to drink it all. And now, you've just consumed a whole bottle of wine. What tips and tricks helped you to take that away? Because I do think that probably the number one thing most women say is like, I just need it at the end of the day. I just need it to deal with my kids. I just need it to get through the evening of chaos. What's your advice on that?

Kate Bee: Yeah. So first of all, I would just invite everyone to have compassion for themselves if they find themselves in that loop. Because that is how alcohol, and particularly wine, is marketed to us women, it is mommy juice. All the cliches like, wine o'clock somewhere. It's laughed about. It's normalized. Alcohol is the only drug on the planet that gets romanticized this much. And I think for mums in particular, it really is seen as a kind of assistant or a necessary part of life, so that creates this own little kind of self fulfilling prophecy. Really, we talk it up like this, and then we rely on it. And you go to my local supermarket, and the wine is right there by the entrance, next to the bread and milk, like this essential thing. So yeah, why wouldn't people rely on it like that? But I think one of the key things I think when I look at women's drinking and I work with clients is that behind every craving for alcohol is some unmet need, and alcohol is like this sticking plaster. There's nothing as addictive as something that almost works, and alcohol almost kind of works. And so it is stepping in there and trying to fix something, hide something, resolve something. And the annoying thing about alcohol is it's dead easy. You can drink as you cook tea. You can drink as you try and shepherd kids through bath time, into bed and everything. It's just very convenient. 

But yeah, to answer your question, I would say, okay, let's think about what you need at the end of the day. Maybe it's a moment to catch your breath and decompress between work and your second shift of the day, cooking tea and doing everything else mum-related. So it's like, okay, how could I find a way to meet that need and decompress slightly before I go into that? So one of my students, she just started. I think she used to get the bus home, and she started getting off a couple of stops earlier so she could walk the last bit and have a little bit more time to herself to regulate, then pick her kids up from the babysitter, and then walk them home. And it sounds like just such a small thing. But then she's not slamming from one thing into another, into another, just catching her breath. So it might be something like that. It might look like asking for more help. Putting yourself first, and allowing yourself to do more stuff that fills your cup. Whether it is. Connecting with others, getting the support you need, or even being entertained. Because sometimes, drinking is about trying to relieve the boredom of those daily routines. 

Heather Nelson: So good. What a great way to think of that. Because you're right. I'm like, usually, it's like a transition. And most of the time, we were saying it from being either in work mode all day to now having to come home and be a mom, and that's what that transition looks like in the chaos. But what is it that you truly need? And maybe it's like Zen, or maybe it's changing the music. I know a lot of women have been trying to pretend because it's more like a ritual, right? It's the pouring of a glass in a wine glass, and that same routine. But what if instead of wine, it's a seltzer, like a water cell, like sparkling water with ice, or something that makes you feel like it's wine, but it's not. But it's still that same vessel. It's still the same action, but doesn't make you feel like crap.

Kate Bee: Yeah. I really encourage that because a big part of those wine cravings can be hunger and thirst. It's no coincidence. You have the biggest cravings to drink at the end of the day. When it's been some time since you've eaten, you are probably looking for a bit of a sugar boost in wine because there's lots of sugar, especially in white wine, rose wines. So if you want to have something like a fruit juice mixed with seltzer, or tonic water, or something like that, that actually is gonna rehydrate you a bit, which will make you feel a bit better. Another really simple hack is to have a snack. Because, again, hunger can feel a lot like a craving for alcohol in your body. So these little rituals are meeting these needs that we perhaps haven't stopped to think about. Oh, yeah, I actually have this legitimate need here for water, for sugar, for an energy boost, for food.

Heather Nelson: During your 13 years of being sober, I'm sure the first few months was probably the hardest, right? They always say the first 30 days are the hardest. What was the hardest thing for you? What were some things that you implemented? I know we've talked about a few, but are there any others that really help you get through that hard 30 days? Because that's like a habit, right? If you can conquer that, what are some tips that you felt like were beneficial for you? 

Kate Bee: Yeah. I think the thing that made the biggest difference the time I actually stopped drinking was rather than telling myself, this is it. I am never ever drinking again like I did all the other time. Instead, I said, okay, I'm going to stop drinking for 100 days. And I got this idea of 100 days because I'd stumbled across some blogs written by other women who sounded just like me who'd stopped drinking, and they were talking about this period of time as being really good because it was longer than just trying to stop for January, and it kind of got you into a bit of a rhythm so you could really get used to sobriety, and get used to doing things alcohol free, and that appealed to me. And I think at the time I've not long started this job, and I'd been on a 90 day probation period and I kind of thought, yeah, I'm doing the same thing with alcohol free living. I need to give it a proper shot, and I'll just make a decision at the end, so it was kind of managing my mind around that really helped. But also, in stumbling across these blog posts, I then started blogging anonymously myself. And this was back in 2013 where lots of people seemed to be writing blogs. And I started commenting on other people, and accidentally creating this community. And that was really transformational for me because I'd been alone with it for so long. And suddenly, I was in this very clunky way having conversations with other people who were going through the same thing at the same time.

Heather Nelson: Interesting. 

Kate Bee: So community, I'd recommend. 

Heather Nelson: What has life been like mentally and physically by you not drinking?

Kate Bee: I honestly believe it's one of the best upgrades I've ever made, and I would not have believed that when I stopped drinking. I promise you, I thought not drinking was going to be this lifelong punishment for not being able to control my drinking. But yeah, I stopped drinking, I lost weight. I used to have this really bad rosacea, and my skin calmed down. Suddenly, I wasn't going to the gym just to punish myself and try and work off some of those wine calories. I was doing it because, oh, I want to get stronger. Or actually, this is self care. It also led to incredible clarity. A small example at the time when I stopped drinking, I realized that I was in this career as a journalist that I didn't like anymore, but I had worked so hard to get there. And yet, I suddenly realized, oh, my goodness, I'm so bored. And a big part of my drinking is that I spend all day here doing stuff that actually is not fulfilling me, and so I need to change that. And without stopping drinking, I don't know if I would have ever realized that. Maybe I would still be in that career today. On so many levels, it's changed me and made me a more confident person. And even the challenging times, I'm grateful for now. 

Heather Nelson: It's so good. I know I always think about the amount of time I would get back by not drinking because it's one thing to go and have a glass of wine with a friend. But then you come home and you're very unproductive. If you had things on the to do list or you had things that you were going to work through, you're like, oh, just get to it tomorrow. And then tomorrow, you know. And I'm like, I just had three hours that I could have reached out to other podcast guests. There's so many things that push me down. I think where I'm sitting in my life right now is that I could be so much more if I didn't consume my time drinking. Do I want to give up my social time? Absolutely not. Do I want to be around my friends? Yes. But it's not just that time, but it's the post time of either that day or not feeling so great the next day. And you're like, oh, you're foggy and you want to sleep in. And then again, if you're in a really good healthy routine, you wake up and go work out. Well, then you don't want to work out because you might have a headache or whatnot. And so for all of these reasons, I know. But then you just get sucked in as soon as, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go to this event and I'm not gonna drink. And then you get there and they're like, come on, Heather, have one glass of wine. And then you're like, okay. And then you beat yourself up about it. 

Kate Bee: I think for you, I just wondered if you have tried not drinking for a while just to see how that feels, almost like taking a car for a test drive. I don't know if that's something you've experimented with. 

Heather Nelson: I go for like a week period. This weekend, I was around all of my best friends, but I was like, why? You know what I mean? What's the point? I was fine, you know. And then I felt better. I woke up today, and I'm ready to go, not slow behind. And so yes, I definitely know. I think that the one thing that came to mind for me, and that seems to be helpful when I am trying to go on a non-drinking thing is taking it day by day. Because then I look ahead and I'm like, oh, I have this event coming up and I can't wait because we're gonna go float down the river, and I want to have some beer or whatever it is. It's like you get in your head about the future things and how you're gonna work through that moment instead of just taking it day by day and just saying, okay, today, I'm not going to drink, and we're going to try it today. And then tomorrow, you know what I mean? And not thinking ahead. What are your thoughts around that?

Kate Bee: Yeah. I think it really depends, because I completely understand what you're saying. There's always something on the calendar. There is always a reason why it's not the right time. I've been running the sober school for a while now, for 10 years actually. And in that time, the only period of time I can recall when everyone had empty calendars and nothing to do was during the pandemic. And were people stopping drinking then? No. Actually, drinking more than ever because people were bored and stuck at home. So yeah, there will never be a good time to do this. Some people really love taking it one day at a time. It just helps them focus on that day and not get too far ahead. I was talking about when I used to try and quit forever, which is crazy. Other people do this almost for the safety of saying, you know what? I'm not drinking until this date. I've made the decision, it's off the table. And come hell or high water, I'm not going to drink through these events. And the advantage to that approach, if you can get your mind on board with it, is that then you do push yourself to go to that afternoon you described and not drink. And although you might not feel super excited about it when you do that, that tends to be when you have the big breakthroughs because maybe you have a great experience and then it changes something in your mind and you think, oh, actually, I can do that. I didn't realize I could do that. But I just had a really good time there. And those are the little shifts that get you closer and closer to an alcohol-free lifestyle.

Heather Nelson: Why do you think the younger generation that's coming into the drinking age is not drinking because I know that is like a big topic of conversation. A lot of my clients are winery owners, and they say, oh, this younger generation is not drinking. Why do you think that is? 

Kate Bee: I don't know. I have lots of theories, but yeah, here in the UK, it's exactly the same. Our problem drinkers are women in their 50s who are quietly drinking at home once the car is safely parked. So all behind closed doors. It's not tracked. It's not visible. But yeah, as for the younger generation, I think there are a couple of different theories from the fact that they are more connected than ever. So when I was very young, going to the pub to drink and socialize, well, that was the only way you could see your friends unless you literally wanted to call them on the house phone. So our social training was around alcohol. Young kids, teenagers, women in their 20s, they don't have that today. They also know that every single thing they do is tracked. There's a photo of it, it's put online. Thank goodness, no one was putting online the stuff that I was doing in my 20s.

Heather Nelson: We literally said that this weekend. Thank God. But we missed those days because we were off the radar. No one knew where we were. There was no evidence of what we did. But the things that we did were not great.

Kate Bee: No, absolutely not great. And then the only other thing I wonder about is, we grew up with kind of parents in the 80s, 90s. There was a certain way of parenting then, and that's not how we parent now. We do teach kids now to be a bit more emotionally available to be able to sit with their feelings. There are kinds of life skills that I think younger people have, that perhaps we weren't shown how to have. And ultimately, drinking always comes down to trying to escape an emotion or trying to amplify an emotion. And if you're an emotional ninja, great at dealing with the ups and downs of life, you're probably not as attracted to alcohol. And I don't want to generalize, but I just wonder if that's also a difference today.

Heather Nelson: So interesting. Okay, you've mentioned this sober school, which is the work that you're doing now. Talk about the work that you do. Who are your clients? What is the work that you do with them?

Kate Bee: Yeah, thank you. So at The Sober School, I have a coaching program called Getting Unstuck. It's meant to do what it says on the tin, like get you unstuck from a pattern that you're not happy with. And what I invite women to do is come and join me for six weeks. It's a six week program, and I run it in cohorts, so everybody starts at the same time. You get this online community, which is huge for the women I work with because they largely feel very alone, and they aren't sharing this with anyone. So yeah, through this course and this coaching program, my goal is to teach them how to stop drinking and do so in a way that doesn't feel like a stone in their shoe or a cross to bear. I always say, I want alcohol-free living to feel like an upgrade, to feel like something, a lifestyle upgrade you can get really excited about. Because the thing that put me off stopping drinking for so long was that, the only stuff I could see online was about how this was going to be a constant battle. This is going to be very difficult. Going to be in recovery forever. Well, no. It doesn't have to be like this. When people stop smoking, they don't spend the rest of their days talking about how they're a recovering nicotineaholic. They're just an ex-smoker, and I am an ex-drinker. I would love other people who work with me to be able to say that too. Something I did is not something I do anymore. 

Heather Nelson: How many women have you helped get sober? 

Kate Bee: I've had more than 4,000 women go through my program over the 10 years. I am not in touch with all of them anymore. Because obviously, it's a huge number. I don't know how to quantify the success rate. But I'll just say one of my oldest students is 10 years sober from my very first course, and she's actually my youngest student ever. So I thought, wow, that's really cool. So yeah, I have students who are over a decade alcohol free, and women who've just completely turned their lives around. And the really cool thing is, because of the kind of women I work with, they tend to be very high achieving, very driven. They are running businesses. They are juggling work life, family life. To be able to do all of that as you drink at the same time, it requires real grit and determination. So when you take alcohol out of the picture, they just soar because they're already a bit superhuman anyway to be juggling all of that. I always say that you need to be strong to be a drinker. So yeah, it's very rewarding to see those changes.

Heather Nelson: I remember reading that you do work with a little higher execs or higher achiever, women who are managing a lot, probably like myself. And we use that for that coping mechanism to help us, I wouldn't say escape, but really to just be. And I think what I've been trying to do, it's on my to-do list every day, I just need to figure out where in my day that I'm gonna need to put this meditation. Can I just sit with myself for 10 minutes and just regulate myself that way versus having to rely on a glass of wine at night?

Kate Bee: I think we can be sort of understanding and compassionate about the fact that wine has kind of established itself in our lives, in our world because it is serving this purpose. But also, if that feels like a problem, then you absolutely have to replace that with self care tools, like you're talking about with meditation. I know that does not sound as sexy. It doesn't sound as fun. But sometimes, self care is really boring. And if you're drinking and suffering because of it, well, it's worth doing the boring self care to make yourself feel better in the big picture.

Heather Nelson: And I think to somebody who is a social person, and I think of this as myself, especially when you're entertaining clients or connecting with people, instead of saying, hey, let's go for a happy hour. Let's go for a drink. How about we go for a walk? How about we go for a hike? How about we go paddleboarding, or doing something more active, or more out in nature that doesn't require us to sit down and drink? And I'm like, the amount of money that I have spent on alcohol, I don't want to know. 

Kate Bee: It's crazy. There was something I read the other day that said the average drinker spends 60,000 pounds on alcohol in their lifetime. So I think that would be about $80,000. But personally, I was a high achieving drinker. I would have been spending way more than that. 

Heather Nelson: I even think like, when people go, oh, when you go out to eat, it's so expensive. Well, yeah, especially if you're drinking. Because now, a glass of wine is almost $20, or a cocktail's like $25, and you have two. That adds up so much over time. And for all of these reasons, it's like, Heather, why do you continue to fall back on this? And I do think at the end of the day, it's one of those things that has become such a routine in my life. And that's how I've always felt I've connected with people, and I just need to find other ways to do that.

Kate Bee: You had some great ideas there, such as going for walks with people. And it would be interesting to test it out. Because sometimes, other people are up for doing that, but they almost need someone else to go first and suggest it. Say, hey, rather than the alcoholic brunch that we do, why don't we try this? And they're kind of up for that, but they need someone else to shake up the routine first. And you strike me as being that kind of person who could do that.

Heather Nelson: I'm like, you go and you're like, oh, what cocktail are we gonna have? Or what mimosa? Now I'm like, oh, what kind of fun coffee are we gonna have? Going back to your youth and having a Shirley Temple, those fun drinks that you necessarily put aside because you've prioritized wine or a cocktail. Because I've been pregnant so many times, that was always the fun thing for me because I'm like, oh, my gosh. I have to be sober for 10 months, which I know I can do because I've done it four times. But then, the fun thing is trying different drinks that you necessarily don't get to normally have.

Kate Bee: And there is a lot out there. There has never been a better time to be alcohol free. The alcohol free drinks industry is booming, and it's booming for a reason. They wouldn't be making these drinks if there wasn't demand for them.

Heather Nelson: Absolutely. Okay, so since we've talked about a lot of different things, but with working with all of the students that you've worked with, and the women that you've worked with, what do you think the number one thing that you see over and over again that you can leave as a little nugget for somebody who's been struggling with the, should I be sober? Should I not be sober? 

Kate Bee: I think the question that I get asked the most is, hey, Kate, do you think I need to stop drinking? How do I know? And it's the million-dollar question, of course. And there's a part of us that just wants someone else to tell us the answer. But when you're a gray area drinker, and it's not black and white, and you're not having those rock bottom moments, it is a little harder to figure out. And so my answer is normally, if you're unhappy in your relationship with alcohol, try cutting back. I know, not a radical idea. But try it for a while, and then keep a bit of a diary about how you're feeling. And there's no secret to moderating your alcohol intake. There is no magic trick that you've overlooked. There are strategies you can look at online. There's loads of stuff if you Google it. But if you've tried 3, 4, 5, 10 tips for cutting down, and it's only working once or twice, and then you drink in a way that you regret and feel bad about. Notice that, and then perhaps experiment with alcohol-free living. I strongly recommend stopping for at least 6 weeks, because that just gives you a proper taste of what alcohol-free living can be like. And start questioning your beliefs as well. Make a list of all the things that you think alcohol provides for you. Write that on one side of the page, and then on the other. Just note down any evidence you have that kind of rocks that assumption, that maybe questions it a bit. So just start gathering data, keeping notes, and really making an assessment. Because sometimes, we don't know how much we're suffering until we see it in black and white, and we can step back from it a bit. And we just want to get out of that pattern of normalizing feeling bad a lot of the time without realizing it. 

Heather Nelson: So good. I am so thankful that you came on the show today because I always say my guests come on a show at a certain point in my life, and this is something that I've been really thinking about, especially this last weekend. It's always clarity and motivation to be like, okay, you can do this. You've got this. You have the tools. You've done it because you've been pregnant. You can do it. I've seen my dad. My dad was an alcoholic my whole life, it was either alcohol or his daughters. And he had to make the choice, and he chose his daughters and stopped drinking. And he's been sober for, I don't even know, 30 years now? So it's like, I know it can be done, and I can see a flourishing life that he's had to be able to overcome. I have to remind myself like he is my motivation to be able to to stop. And again, I'm not saying come to it because I feel like I'm alcoholic, I just know that I deserve better, and that I don't need to waste so much time and money on something that makes me feel like crap. 

Kate Bee: I love that you've got that experience, and also just to say that you don't need to identify as an alcoholic in order to stop drinking. You don't need to label yourself if it serves you to do that. Great, but I don't. I don't use that label about myself. 

Heather Nelson: I love that. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing your story. In the show notes, people can follow and find you. And if they think a program like this is something that would be beneficial to them, they can reach out and be a part of your ecosystem, because I do think you're so right with the community. It's one thing to have a one-on-one coach, but to have a community of support, and even locally finding those friends who are trying the same thing of not drinking and getting in their ecosystem, and spending more time with them, and making those right decisions. But thank you again for being here. I'm so glad we connected. 

Kate Bee: Thank you so much for having me. It's just so good to talk about alcohol and sobriety like this. 

Heather Nelson: Yes, congrats. 13 years, that's amazing, especially in the world that we live in right now. I know you're inspiring lots of women today listening to this story.

Kate Bee: Thank you.

Heather Nelson: That's a wrap on today's episode of Her Story Unscripted. Is something you heard today made you feel a little more seen, a little less alone, or just got you thinking that's exactly why we're here? If this episode resonated with you, I'd love for you to share it with another woman in your life who needs to hear it. And if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe wherever you listen, or catch us on YouTube so you never miss a conversation. I'm Heather Nelson. Thank you for being here, for listening, and for showing up for real stories. I'll see you next week.