Cold calling techniques, Best banks for HELOC on rentals, and Hiring real estate virtual assistants

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Episode 42 of Estate Professionals Mastermind - Live Probate Training with Certified Probate Experts

Full show notes, time stamps, video stream, and resources: https://probatemastery.com/cold-calling-techniques-best-banks-for-heloc-on-rentals-and-hiring-real-estate-virtual-assistants-estate-professionals-mastermind-podcast

Watch this as a webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ph4qqBpCttA


0:00 Best community banks for HELOC on an investment property: Rates and credit scores (Funding Deals)
3:25 Screening shady daisy chain wholesalers who are assigning contracts to another wholesaler (Wholesaling Tips)
6:51 Save the Deal: Pending auction and shady wholesaler vs. creative financing and strike capital (Creative Financing)
11:30 Do not call list real estate risks and TCPA real estate risks (Real Estate Prospecting)
13:59 How to hire real estate virtual assistants: Hybrid payment structure and retention incentives (Real Estate VAs)
18:24 How to find personal property appraisers and national senior relocation services (Building a Team)
19:39 Cold calling lis pendens and foreclosure leads: Handling wholesale real estate objections from motivated sellers (Lis Pendens Leads)
24:32 Lead generation and handling objections: “It’s under contract/taken care of/sold” (Real Estate Prospecting)
27:25 How to cold call after rejection: Cold calling techniques that really work to shake reluctance (Real Estate Prospecting)
28:33 Cold call disruption tips for I am not interested objection (Real Estate Prospecting)
32:56 Avoiding common attorney mistakes: Judgement of possession and property title transfer issues with multiple heirs (Louisiana Succession)

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Transcript

0:05

Welcome everybody to the weekly probate mastery group, coaching call. We've got a zoom marathon for the next couple of weeks! One of the things we've done in the past is our ask the expert series. We've talked a lot about vendor partners and who can bring value to your prospects and clients in this space. And I just finished recording with of the lenders is a probate advanced company that I've met at over the last couple of years. So that you'll see that in the next few days. And we've got quite a bit of ancillary content in addition to this call. If you get value from this, be sure you're subscribed to us as a podcast or on YouTube or wherever you like to consume it. We're trying to bring more and more of the people that we have access to that you might not and help you build your teams. So all that sets the housekeeping. I did have one question that came in prior to the call. She had asked about home equity lines of credit? So this particular question was out of Florida. She asked what does a low fee a high LTV. And a home equity line of credit or HELOC lender in the state of Florida? In the past. I've always banked with community banks. I want banks that will look at me as a person. Like, I'm not a cell on a sheet in an underwriting meeting. I like to have a real relationship with a banking professional. I did move to a much bigger bank. So first citizens bank, two months ago, they were a$24 billion bank, but they recently purchased CIT bank. And they're now almost a hundred billion dollar bank, but the good news is they still act like a community bank. The house that I recently bought that I'm renovating, we started demo today. I took one of their loans. It was that particular loan was a home renovation loan, which if you guys have ever done an FHA homeowner loans, those are a pain, right? This one $75 fee. Closed it, no questions asked. I just submitted personal financial statement. It's a non-recourse non unsecured debt. 50,000 bucks, no questions asked. It's obviously based on your credit score and your personal financial statement. So I like first citizens because they still make creative consumer loans on real estate because they are so well heeled. Their home equity line of credit program, I think the bar is 770 on this. If you have exemplary credit as FICA puts it, then you can actually qualify for a 90 LTV home equity line of credit. And that's prime plus one and a quarter. I'm not sure with the CIT bank acquisition, how many states First Citizens is in. I think before that acquisition, they were in a dozen or so. James actually said first citizen does not underwrite HELOC in Pennsylvania. I'm not sure why. That's the first I've heard, so thanks for sharing James. All of the loans I've done with first citizens are West Virginia and Florida. They've been a fantastic bank to work with even when I come up against kind of corporate policy. If you ask for an exception, they're pretty flexible. So that's my best recommendation in Florida for the fastest closing. They do a desktop appraisal, as long as that comes in which in this market, what the hell desktop appraisal doesn't come in. But they do a desktop appraisal typically closes in a week about every six months. They'll run a promo where you can actually get the first six months interest free and no closing costs. I think that's how I did my first one with them, but that's kinda my endorsement for a mostly national HELOC lender. There are a ton out there guys. I would just say, look at my personal opinion. I stay away from the biggest banks because they're typically the hardest to deal with, the highest on fees, and the hardest to communicate with. All right. Nina. I saw your hand. This is more of like. Advisory real quick, but with my current listing, and I've had this happen before I get an email from an investor. They want to submit an offer, try calling them. And it just rings and rings. So clearly they're using a CRM that is, it may be going to their cell phone, but they're not picking up. So I email and then for the most part, there's no opportunity to call them and talk to them over the phone. It's always via email. And then the next piece is they send all their criteria and they say, here's the signer for the LLC. Okay, great. They got all the articles, all the stuff for the LLC. They're saying you can just send the contract to me and then I'll make sure it gets signed. In California, the agent has to send the contract. If it's going DocuSign to the signer. We have to protect ourselves. This is a part of litigation and liability and risk avoidance. We have to protect the verbiage in ourselves and make sure and the cure for the third parties, as well as the seller and make sure that we are interacting with the buyer for the contract. But this guy's oh, just send it to me and I'll review it and get it over to him for signing, don't worry about the signatures. So from an investing standpoint to investors, if you're doing this, usually it's because there's probably a wholesaler who's looking to assign it and they're, acting as an acquisition manager, but they have no assigning authority. And they're just trying to bypass that by just signing them themselves, then turning around and saying, it's going to be the signer. Or they somehow got the authority documents from that company and are trying to go around another person who has the property. So I'm just saying it's a warning sign. Yeah. I was going to say, it sounds like I had two guesses where we were going. One was institutional buyer; two is a daisychain wholesaler. Exactly. Daisy. That's what I was exactly saying. And plus with the Daisy chain wholesaler, he was coming in with this high price. But he has a seven day inspection. So he's going to try to retrade it down to get it to his price. Then he can then Daisy chain it on. So fair warning. I don't give them much credence to LinkedIn. I think it's a huge waste of time in the real estate space. And a lot of people disagree with me, but there's so much BS and when I first started building my investment company, I thought you could build real relationships on LinkedIn. And I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying there's more bull than value. And I fell for this, like I had an off market list and I got a deal and I know. enough and residential real estate. I'm like, Ooh, opportunity. And I can't tell you how much time I wasted. And Nina is just giving you a friendly warning. You're putting your assets on the line and one of those as your reputation. Those deals, those people, if they won't put you on the phone with the principal of the entity or the seller. And you can flush them out in a hurry and be like, "yeah, man sounds like we could do some business together. Let's jump on a quick 10 minute call. Can you get the manager of the LLC on the line or can you get the seller on the line? And by the way, send me a mutual nondisclosure will cover us both ways. Cause we'll do a lot of deals together, aren't we?" They'll backpedal and they get marble mouth and get off the phone real fast. So that's an easy way to flush out the bull and I just will not be part of a deal that's being wholesaled if I can't go direct to the person who's controlling the contract. In my opinion, and I'll bet if John Fraker is here, he would

agree: 6:34

The guy in the middle could have legal liability for practicing brokerage, because he doesn't actually have an equitable interest in the asset. So I've used that to scare the shit out of the ones that are just that shouldn't be doing what they're doing. They're just trying to wedge themselves in and drive a price up. I've also had to bail sellers out of this situation. So I bought a house. It was a probate house, but it was a probate house with a reverse mortgage. The family stuck their head in the sand. They didn't respond to marketing. It went to the courthouse steps. The son took his last 5,000 bucks. Didn't understand that he had to come up with the remaining balance. So he put his last $5,000 down at the courthouse steps and called me on day 20 day, 30 hour, 20 hour 21, literally. We had a three hour window from the time my, we bought houses, phone rang and he's like panicked. And I'm like, are you kidding me? So tell me the story, slow down. What happened? One of these daisy chain wholesalers told him to go to the auction bid on it. He would raise the price 20 grand and they would split it and he could profit from it. And he obviously was way overpriced. I don't think I would do it any differently. Like I told him from my very quick appraisal, I I knew the neighborhood. I said, if it's a typical house in that neighborhood, I'm at 68 and 68 wouldn't even get him out. I had to go to 69 and I just didn't want him to lose every. I I could have just let it go and been at the steps. The next morning I picked it up for 69. I knew I could do something with it with creative financing, wholesale price was 68. I picked it up for 69. Just clean the quick, clean out mowed the yard, put it back out at 79 with a creative financing. I took a $69,000 down payment, $10,000 note at 8%. But I had to bail the consumer out because of these wholesalers that are trying to just wedge themselves in and provide no value other than running the price up on the investors. So it's a good caution. It's real. LinkedIn is full of it. I would say in my experience, 80% of users who claim to be real estate experts or real estate professionals they're terrible. Go direct to the managing member of the entity or don't waste your time with them. They can get you in legal trouble, but they can also ruin your reputation exactly. Very much and I love that you brought a creative solution to the guy. And I will piggyback off that and say, if you are ever dealing with this situation where you're having to go in and get it, like what Chad had to do at the steps, and you're probably going in above where you can really be at with it, look for the creative financing solutions. That situation would have also been ideal for a lease option where you bring an investor or you as the investor would just bring a tenant in and have a tenant pay, pay you a future value in three years, that's going to be higher. So you get a return. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted my, all my principle back and I knew that I could find a green card holder that would have cash. So I looked for a green card holder that owned a business. Guess what? I found one, he owned his own truck. He was a long haul trucker and he had $69,000 in cash. At that time I was looking to recap principal as fast fast as I could. I didn't even know I was going to do the deal. I wasn't looking to do a deal. It was literally one of those had I not answered my phone. I wouldn't, I would've completely missed it because he called me at two o'clock. And the clock turned to a pumpkin at five o'clock. And that was my record deal. From the time I arrived at the house until I walked out of my attorney's office with the deed in my hand was an hour and 45 minutes. I literally end to end purchased a piece of real estate in less than two hours. Wow. And that's another reason you need to have strike capital. You should have lines of credit set up. We've talked about this. When I opened an account with first citizens bank, which we talked about earlier. The first thing I do is I'll throw 20 grand into a deposit account, which we all know they get nine to one leverage on. So I use that to start the relationship. I immediately go to the business banking side and I say, all right, I'd like a line of credit for 49,900. They grant it right there for$150 fee, a brand new entity. I've got 50,000 and strike capital. So you should always have, if you have entities, if you have business bank accounts, you should have commercial lines of credit just to have revolving lines sitting there because when these phone calls come. Sometimes when you have to clean up a mess, you have to do it fast. And it had, I not had strike capital, wouldn't have gotten this deal because I literally had minutes to get in the truck and get there so I could actually walk through it and then make it all the way across town. Back to my end of town. I sit down with the attorney and his staff. They're like, you never cease to surprise us. What have you brought in here now? And I'm like, we got to close this in two hours! So we were on the phone with an attorney from DC or Richmond and back and forth, but we got it done. So if you want to be buying home that regardless of what your disposition strategy is, make sure you keep strike capital on hand because, and in the probate space, a lot of times people will wait until the absolute last minute. And sometimes it's a reverse mortgage. Sometimes it's a foreclosure on a reverse mortgage. You never know what you're going to uncover, so make sure you've always got some strike money if you're looking to, to own your own portfolio. Awesome. Thank you. And Kris, I think I overlooked your comment here in the very beginning. I know you've talked about it a million times, but Kat gave me some links. So if you want to bypass that and do something else, I understand. Okay. Yeah. I mean, assess your own risk. We've had millions of calls, and the only complaint I've ever seen was a phone call from an attorney. To one of our, one of the customers, one when I was with all the leads and we were burning through millions of these, one complaint, they didn't even bother to put it in writing. They said, did you call this person? Don't do it again. So I don't think there's an extreme amount of liability. TCPA and DNC. Those are the top down approach they're going after the providers and the big call centers, not necessarily the solo practitioners and the individual practitioners. But there's always risk there. James Dempsey, you always seem to be driving to an appointment on these calls, man. I do home health physical therapy, so I'm leaving my patient's house. Gotcha. Yeah, so my issue is I'm stuck between hiring a cold caller right now because I'm working 40 hours a week and I'm looking at some some texting platforms and I'm just wondering, I know texts it's a lot cheaper and then a cold caller is probably going to run me about six bucks an hour, but I guess I'm on the fence about hiring somebody. I just don't have time to do it myself. So I guess, I guess I really have to do that, but what are your thoughts? I would, I mean, my best advice to you having been sued for TCPA is don't do text marketing, unless you have explicit written consent within the last 90 days, or you have an existing business relationship because there is a whole new group of attorneys out there that know if you're soliciting real estate, you're probably a relatively high net worth target. And all they got to do is run a campaign on the radio or throw up a billboard and get one person to send that text message to their firm. And it gets you into a class action suit at $150 per they subpoena your phone records, take your laptop, shut your business down during that time. And they know that all they have to do is threaten you with that and they can shake you down for a quick settlement. It can quickly balloon into hundreds of millions of dollars of threat, and then you'll pay tens of thousands just to get rid of it. That's been my experience with text marketing. I don't think the reward is worth the risk. One text message cost 20 grand. Most coaches will tell you that, Hey, go do it. Just don't worry about it. And if you read the terms and conditions on their companies, they're passing the buck to you. And they know that they don't have any liability telling you to take on that liability. It's an easy, it's effective. You have 95% open rates and 50% response rates, but it's just, I think if you're doing it at scale, it's just a matter of time until the right person sends it to the wrong attorney. As far as calling, it sounds like you already have trained VA's so you're you seem apprehensive about hiring, but you already referenced VA's that are trained. There's a real high turnover rate. I'm trying to get somebody who sounds speaks perfect English, which I found a couple that do, but you know, they're asking for eight, $9 an hour, which I think is a little high on the front end. I interviewed one last night is willing to come home for six bucks an hour. So I'm probably gonna roll with her. I'm going to challenge you on this James. Like you're going off shore to save money, but you're getting labor for half to what you can get it for here and then you're still trimming them down $8 is too high, so I want six. Well, if you get that person for six and you train them and they're doing a great job, what does it take to get them away from you? I'll come offer them seven after you train them, you invest in them. That's a good point. You get what you pay for. If you're competing in a downward price race, you're always going to struggle. So my advice is pay for a VA that will be loyal to you. Invest in them. Anyone who's trying to price shop and get it as cheap as possible won't be stealing your people. And hopefully, I mean, if they're good at what they do, what is $8 an hour if they're setting appointments for you? I would just be careful. That's a dangerous game. Like you can spend. 20 30, 40 hours getting this person up to speed. They go on LinkedIn and get someone else that's willing to pay him eight 50 or six 50. And they're gone for 50 cents because that's significant money and and their dollars. So that's what I would say. You mentioned, Bruce, have you spoken to Bruce about his callers providing the service for you? Yeah, I did. That was a little bit, it was a little bit on the high end. I actually had a call with him about it, but I think I'm going to just try to keep it in house since, I do want to scale up eventually and I feel pretty confident with that. That's great. I have one last idea for you. So I'll go, I'll jump back on my soap box for just a second. If you want to get a $6 ISA, and you want them to do a good job and you want to retain them, something else you could do is offer them $6 an hour and then offer them a closing bonus on every deal. So their income could be significantly higher, right. And you're sharing in results. So you can get what you want as the lowest labor rate possible. They can get what they want, which is the most opportunity for the time spent. So you may consider something like that, where you say, listen, this is a hybrid payment program. I'll pay you $6 an hour for prospecting and $200 for every closing or $10 for it. I don't recommend doing it on appointments. And anyone that I've ever seen pay an appointment bonus to an ISA, they hang paper and most of the appointments are no shows. Put it on the other side of a settlement statement, but say, listen, if you do what I hired you to do, like you get the appointments, I close the deals, we both get paid. So you could do that where it minimizes your front end outlay. That's actually what I did. Last time I gave my VA two 50 and as soon as I paid her the two 50, she quit. So I don't know if those correlated or not. Yeah. I mean, the reason I suggested that as a retention tool, so we've got typically what, a 30 to 90 day closing window on each deal. If she's consistently getting you appointments and you're consistently papering deals. When I lived in Maui, every day I'd go in and make a sale. And I'm like, now I have to stay on this island another 60 days. I mean, I was a year in, I just kept making sales and I'm like, damn it, because it was another two months. But it's a good retention tool for salespeople. If they have to stick around to be compensated until the deal closes and you've got a steady flow of deals, it's gotta be hard for her to leave that position. I like Cory's advice better than anyone.. Corey said, James, you got to make the calls time to quit the W2. Paulie had asked Paulie. No, I sold my shares and all the leads on January 20th of last year. So a little over a year, we took probate mastery out on its own. And I'm no longer a principal and all the leads, even though I had a good time there, it was fun company to build. Who else we got? So Frank said I'm more than halfway through probate mastery to complete the certification. Do I need to go through all the Q and a sessions? No. So actually we set those as optional, not prerequisite. I realized that not everybody wants to sit and listen to three hours, but there is a lot of good stuff in there. You get to see the blind spots of the other people. There were over 200 people in that class. So it was a pretty wide ranging Q and A. There's value to it. That's why I put it there as bonus content, but it isn't required to actually complete to, get a course completion. All right, go ahead, Josh. Hey is there a national certification for an appraiser personal property accreditation? I'm getting administrators and executors that need to get somebody for personal property and when you get down to it, some of my estate sale folks, they don't want to really do anything until they know they got the business, which is, they just need to get an idea of what personal property is appraised at. There are national associations, just like the national association of realtors. It's not the oldest industry in the world, so it's not as established as like real estate trade groups or attorney groups. The local knowledge is more important than a federal designation. I find that the people who are best at valuing personal property are usually antique store owners or flea market people. They know the value of everything and a state, a sale company owners. Like it's amazing, they've got this database in their heads. Belinda's shared the American society of appraisers. So Belinda, I guess that's personal and real property appraisers? Personal is what I understand. Cause I had to try to find a personal property appraiser. Perfect. So there you go. Josh, you're driving. It's appraisers.org is the URL. All right, Richard, you're up. Hey, what's up, Chad? So I'm trying to reach out to a lot of lis pendens and their main objection is that they have an attorney. So I turn around and I say, Hey, that's great. You know, you know, You're being proactive. But mainly they really, they think they're all set. So I tell them, Hey, why don't you share what you share with me what you're doing? That way I can, by means of what you're sharing. I can help someone else. I just want to know how to handle that when you take everybody's like they got an attorney, so they think they got Superman next to them, but how would you handle that? My first response will be, oh that's really great. I mean, it's always good to have. Having an attorney in your corner, so are they helping you with the loan modification or are they trying to get an injunction on the foreclosure? And then I would shut my mouth and just let that silence hang as long as it. Until they talk. But a lot of times, I mean, there's a legitimate question I'm asking you and those conversations. Do you know what the attorney is doing? Can you ask, can you directly, or is it a loan mod attorney or why is there an attorney involved on their side? You're asking me. You've been on the phones with them? What are they saying? Well, yeah, some of them are saying loan modification and some of them are saying that they have some sort of predatory things going on that they're trying to fight that way. They can actually pencil out the loan, which they're throwing spaghetti at the wall. Okay." So either way, really glad to see that, that you have counsel. Now, I want to tell you that we've got a lot of experience working with families and our goal is to help better your situation. We're not trying to get you out of the home, but what we find is oftentimes attorneys come up short and if, if they're racking up billable hours and they know they're not going to win and they walk away. So help me understand what your contingency plan is and has this attorney offered to make sure that you're not homeless and the sheriff is ushering you to an an extended stay hotel in 45 days when he fails at what he's trying?" And I'm going to paint that emotional picture of the hell that they're going to go through and what he's not going to do for them. And it doesn't mean that they have to disengage from him. It just means I have a reason to be there as a contingency plan. Got it. Thanks. That's another fly by night industry. It's really calmed down over the last decade, but in 22 and 23, you're going to see all kinds of fly by night loan mod attorneys that charge an upfront retainer fee and I mean, if they're successful, great, they get paid more. If they're not, they got paid on the front end. And a lot of people put so much trust in that. If the bank is not playing ball or if nothing was wrong, if they don't find clerical errors or technicalities, then they've wasted all that time. So you have 90 to 120 days Mr. Seller. You want to put all your eggs in this basket, knowing that he's looking for a technicality and I'm giving you a real strategy to help make sure your family has a safe place to live. Like your credit's getting worse. Every 30 days when it reports, it gets worse. The least we could do is have this home on the market, under contract. The attorney doesn't have to let the lender even know that we don't have any obligation to disclose a purchase agreement to a foreclosing lender. So let's get the thing under contract with contingencies. We can give you outs. But anyway there's a million ways to put it together, but show them how they're committed to putting all their eggs in one basket with somebody that probably cold called them off of an NOD list. Okay. And if he fails, where does that leave them? And I don't know if you've listened to Katt, can you drop a link? I haven't talked a lot publicly about how I deal with foreclosures, but someone in this group got me to do it. We did a role-play on a foreclosure script. And I don't know if you listen to that, but listen, how I enter that conversation as a consultant and listen to how I don't talk about houses. I talk about people and I talk about emotions and I talk about plans and I talk about contingency plans. And I ease into the real estate conversation. I'll be 15, 20 minutes in before we even ask about the house in most cases. So the house doesn't matter until the person trusts you. So you focus on the people. And it's a powerful image. I've seen it. Like I've seen sheriffs usher people out of their homes, kids with suitcases, clothes, still hanging out crying like crazy. Cause they had the car so stuffed, they couldn't get anything else in it. And they were going to the lowest economy extended stay hotel and the worst neighborhood in town that night cause that's all they could afford. And the outcome could have been completely different had they been proactive. And sometimes that's because they are at fault, put their head in the sand, but oftentimes it's because they put too much trust in some vendor that's telling them,' listen, you're a victim. You didn't pay your mortgage. That makes you a victim. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, redeem this and you're going to be the hero. F these banks!' And it's black and white man. There aren't that many enforceable errors in mortgages these days, they learned their lesson during the robo-signing debacle of 2008. Okay, great. Yeah, I think it's to see that video I just wanted to, go over that objection that I'm getting a lot. Well, with the, with with the probate, when you get the personal representative, if he says you will we, so we sold the house to a family friend. Got that today. That's just so you guys all set, I mean, has it been approved? No, we're good. We're good. So I just hung up." Okay. Well, listen that's amazing. Richard, I mean, oftentimes we end up helping the family sell the home because that's the most stressful thing. It's really great that you guys were able to keep it in the family. And that your family member was able to close. Cause what we see most of the time and there's a strong intent for family members to purchase, but they can't actually come up with financing and close. And it sounds like that's different than your family, right? Like they, they got the financing and they're already closed. They're on track to?" You see what I did? Instead of telling you your family member's probably a deadbeat, I planted a seed for you to, and you're likely to go well. Okay. So yeah, he said he's going to sign the contract like next week he was talking to two or three banks and boom. There you go. So notice I'm talking mainly in stories or, talking about people, same as foreclosure, but show them the risk they're taking because oftentimes, and I mean, you'll see this, like you do this long enough. You'll see. Family members like, oh my God, I want dad's house. There's no way we're going to let that sell. I'm going to, I'm going to buy it. I'm gonna buy it. I'm gonna buy it. And they keep saying that, but they don't take action. And months and months of payments in, and months of deferred maintenance in, they finally, someone says, Hey, you need to get a loan and move on. And they get rejected and all those months were wasted. You can say, all right, well, listen what's the timeline. If he's going to purchase it, by what date as he said, he's going to do. Set a target date and go in sign a listing agreement with a future date or sign a purchase agreement with a future date or a purchase agreement with with a contingency for the seller that if that person produces a proof of funds and a ratified purchase agreement, then yours is not void new things like that, but get the face to face appointment. Cause chances are that person's not going to close. The other side of it, let's just assume for the sake of this role-play that, that person didn't close. They already have. They bought the home in probate, still open. That's amazing. So the estate actually was able to keep the home in the family and the heirs will get the, you guys will get more cash with less hassle. That's awesome. Usually that's our job and now we don't have to do that. So if it's okay with you, I'll just skip to the more exciting part of what we do to help families. And that's how do you move forward? How do you honor that legacy? How do you grow that for your family? How do you not pay for college? How do you buy the new beach house? Have you thought about what you're going to do with the rest of the inheritance and then just listen, but where I'm headed is turning them into a private lender or a buyer they're capitalized. They're on the phone with me. It's the best damn buyer lead you've had all day. So congratulate them on finding the right professional, getting the house sold, turn them into a lender or go sell them a house. Monetize every real estate conversation. Okay. One more question. Sometimes I get the spouse and the spouse will say no, we're good. We're all set. What do you do? Call back, but don't call that person back and still call that person back. Do you think you're getting a home number or a spouse? Sometimes it's the home, sometimes it's a cell. Yeah, sometimes it's both home number and it's a home number I'm calling back when it's 7:00 PM. Yeah. But the reason why I intimidated on that because she, or he, or she might've said to their spouse, Hey, I had this guy call blah, blah, blah. And here he is again, the thought, that's what I'm afraid of, here he is again and again, and I told him not to call it. We're good. You can in one second. So I want to first highlight your fear. You're afraid of what you already have. How irrational is that? Like you're already being rejected. You already don't have the deal. You don't have the relationship. You can't keep them on the phone. That's what you're afraid of. You already have it. So take your fear and run back into the conversation. Keep asking if they Pannell, I know he backs me up on this. Keep calling until I tell you leave them alone. Like your fears are irrational, man. Like it's negative self-talk that you don't need, like you already don't have what you're most afraid of losing. Yeah, I was just going to say it, it all sounds like to me, what you're asking for too, Richard is what is your comeback to, oh, it's all taken care of and we're all set. And from what I remember from the probate mastery course, as well as some other role-play calls, it's just opening the conversation. I think Dave did this in a role-play ones. It's just coming back to them and saying, oh, that's great. What else? Or oh, okay. That's great. I'm wondering if there's something you don't know that you actually need that I know I can help you with. This happens with a lot of the clients I've worked with. They find out they needed something, but they didn't even know it in the first place. So tell me what is, what exactly have you done already? So that's opening up the conversation. Yeah. We've got a few of those internal interruptive tactics. We know that there's about an 80% likelihood there's real estate in the estate, right? And we know that there's a high likelihood that the real estate is vacant and we know. That there's a 99% chance their homeowner's policy doesn't cover vacant real estate if it's been vacant for more than 30 days. So we can use that as like a kind of a catch all that that applies to almost several of my talk to you. Okay. Well, listen, most of the families, we talk to really believe they have everything handled because they have an attorney, but one of the things that we've learned in working with most of the probate attorneys in town, even they didn't. A lot of homes sitting in probate or uninsured because the family thinks they're insured, but they're actually not. But it sounds like you guys have already gotten the vacant insurance policy in place and you've instated the new policy. And then silence and you plant that seed of doubt of horse shit that we overlook something. And then if she engages with you, just be like, well, listen I'd prefer to have the conversation with both of you guys. I'm sure he's the decision maker on paper, but you're the one if we're for real. So how about I call you back at seven tonight and we'll just run through that one little thing. And if you guys have any other questions I'll make sure to block off at least a half an hour. It could be a five minute conversation or you could have at least a half hour of my time. How does seven work? And try to stop them in their tracks with something like that. Most people aren't aware of that. I wasn't for the first 12 or 15 houses I owned, they were non-insured and I thought they were cause I was paying a policy. It just wasn't a vacant policy. So right, Dave, I was going to say now guys, sorry, man. When you go into that, Like yesterday, for instance, they told me that they had everything solved and I was like, Hey, so tell me about the chain of title, but it sounds like your grandma still owns the house where they're given to the aunt to sell. And she like yeah. I got a power of attorney. I've got this and that. Hey, just one second. Can I explain to you how it really happens as a title company and how you need a warranty deed? Do you have a few seconds? So I could really explain it to you that I could save you probably 2000 bucks for probably $150? And boom, that's a great entry. Yeah. Good. So they don't have it solved. They legitimately think that they do because they don't know what they don't know. And that's really on us to be well-informed. That's why I harp on understanding the probate process. I don't want you answering legal questions. I want you using legal knowledge to craft emotional language. To get that. Oh, what if he's right. Invite you to the home to sit down. So what we teach about the law is not to be used. That's what John breakers for this is, we want you to understand the law so you know how to craft your sales language and how to find that magic entry point that David highlighted, but there's many of them like, think about what could they be overlooking? What does the attorney not do for them? And what, what if the attorney fails? Or if, what if the attorney isn't doing their job? Any of those things that could be happening in the background where they have false confidence, bring it to the surface and show them like, what, well, what if this, what if that. That saves probably four weeks worth of paperwork on their side they just let me come to the appointment, do a contract and I could open escrow and I could pay for the closing cost and the warranty deed I speeded up from a month to probably four days to get under contract canceled. Yep. And Belinda had asked, well, what company do you use for vacant house insurance? I'm in Virginia and Florida. I have used American Modern or vacant express. There are several typically they're smaller, like boutique kind of company is not going to be an Allstate or, travelers, but American modern and vacant express are the two that I most commonly use. If you have an insurance broker, he can quote it through half a dozen different ones. I would like to chime in on one of the things Richard was talking about making a segue, I have found out that almost always the attorney is not doing what the family thinks that they're doing. Um, And I mean, for instance, here, I'm in Louisiana, so we're a horse of a different color over here. One of the things that happen here often is 9 out of every 10 deaths are intestate without a will. So it naturally goes through succession. And what I find is a lot of attorneys when they filed the succession, they're not running chain of title on these heirs so when they file for succession, they turn right around and file for what's called a judgment of possession, which places the real estate in possession of the heirs. Well, if you've got heirs that have title issues, They have totally screwed this whole deal up for everyone that owns this property. Whereas if, when I stepped in and talked with them about it and I asked them, where are you filing for judgement of possession? Or are we going to sell this inside the estate? When I explained to them the difference, then all of a sudden may remember, well, one of the heirs that's inherited and may have a drug problem, or may have a bankruptcy, may have IRS liens. So you're saving the estate. Helping them being able to sell the property and saving them a ton of money and a lot of headaches, because usually what happens, they file for judgment of possession. And this person has liens and taxes that are owed that person's not going to sign the they're not going to sign this contract. We're gonna have to take them to court. We're going to force because they're not going to get any inheritance. So a lot of times the attorneys aren't doing what the administrator thinks that they're going to do. Yep. That's good advice, Josh. Thanks. So as you guys can see I mean, there's many different entry points on how to get that whoa, that shock and awe disruption. When we're hearing no, we've got it handled, no we have an attorney objections, they've learned that's behavior that will actually get people off their back so it's become part of their, just their default mode network. It's just, oh, that's how you get people off the phone. Anything we can do, we can use humor. We can use fear, anything. That's creates that shock to their nervous system where they're like, oh man, what if he's right? Oh man, what if my guy did overlook that? Then you're speaking directly to the person they're not on autopilot just trying to run you away. All right. Let me catch up and chat over here. I think we're caught up over here. Jay Hawk says impactful discussion. I'm glad you guys get value from this. If you guys ever, if you have any ideas, if there's things that you would like to see more of, or honestly, if there's things you'd like to hear less of or see less of let us know. I mean, like I said, at the beginning of this call, we're getting some other professionals who can provide value to you and the people you serve. But if there's things that you guys expect or wish we would do, please let us know. Lynette, I see your hand up. Thanks. Just real quick. I've done the probate mastery course. I can't remember exactly when, but I need to redo it. Do I pay or is it free or. No, it's very just email support@probatemastery.com and we'll take a look. We actually just transitioned from Thinkific over to a different LMS. So you probably already have a Thinkific account, but we'll make sure Tom gets you set up with a new Samcart courses login. Thanks. All right. And I have a billion questions that there's just no, oh, time or not always next week. Bill and I did a call yesterday. That will probably give you guys too, but Bill's gone through the course for his, I don't know what the third time bill, Bell's consistently. 30 plus transactions a the year, but he's still revisiting the course. And I saw Joyce's here. Joyce holds the stand up and wave to everybody. So Joyce holds the record. She took my live class 48 consecutive months in a row. And I don't know how many times you've been through the digital course, but she's had this class 48 times. So that's the bar. She set the bar high. All right. Well guys, thanks so much for a great conversation. Dennis asks, where are the recorded calls? Dennis? You can search Estate Professionals Mastermind podcast on any podcast platform. You can look for the same and YouTube. You can find them in our Facebook groups, Estate Professionals Mastermind, or probate mastery alumni. We put them in all kinds of places to make it easy for you guys to enjoy, to consume. However you wish. So lots of. Yeah. Actually, I was going to ask you, I get a lot of people asking me, Hey, I want to do probate. What have you got? And so I've been pointing them to my probate mastery link is the first step, but also some have taken courses elsewhere and they're like, oh, well I've already taken a course. I'm just wondering, you're like, really? How do I get started? And of course my first thought is get some probate leads and start making calls. What do you think is the best place to start? Hey guys, I'll answer that, Chad. I know that lady took the course 48 times, but I, halfassed your course five times and I've done 107 probate, so boom. Always a competition. Oh, that is too funny. Okay. Well, I'm on my third round of it and I'm probably gonna end up being around there at a hundred and something or whatever, but, oh Nina. So what would I say? I mean, we get the question all the time. People actually even take this course and go, my God. It was amazing now what do I do? So that's why I'm working on more of a step by step, more of a linear format to the course. So at intervals, throughout the course, basically the course tells you what to do. It's a very challenging thing for me to do because my brain is it's just. There's so many things that I can do with a deal, like to monetize every real estate conversation. It's hard for me to build that in a linear format. Cause in my mind, it's this big web it's like neurons. If you've ever seen like a microscopic picture of neurons and how they link up and. Connections, going all there, all different directions. I've been really challenged as an instructor to figure out how to not overwhelm and confuse people, but show them how it, all that kind of interlinks. So I'm working on that next iteration to do a better job at that. But honestly, if you, if they already have taken a course and they have an education, what the question I asked first is are you clear and confident on your offer? And if the answer is no, then either quit or go get clear and confident on your offer. And if the answer is yes, then why aren't you on the phone? Yeah. Okay, Dave! No, I'm kidding. He sounds like you just now, why the hell aren't you on the phone. It's serious! I don't know why people hold back from it. It's the only way you're going to get deals. You could send letters, you could do all kinds of Facebook ads. Well, why not start with phone calls so you can get to know the knowledge. And then when you run into a situation you got to solve, you learn how to solve it, and there's no way around doing it. You can take courses, you can talk to Chad, ask a bunch of questions. You can put things on a whiteboard and say, you're going to do it, but make the calls. And all the other things you do just generate phone calls. So you have to talk to them eventually. There's no that you came to limit you text and email. And postcard and have a marching band go to their house. They're going to call you and you have to learn how to have a dialogue or else.. Cory Richardson out of the Washington, Seattle market said CALL. He closed 33 deals last year for him. It works. And that was Corey's first. That was your first year, right? And we're talking, I don't know. I'm guessing. I think Corey's median price is probably six 50 to seven. No, I would say maybe on a follow-up call chatty. We'd be really great. To dig into what you brought up with before earlier about the fear. What is the fear about making the calls? What is the resistance call resistance? What is all of that about? There's so many pieces to that, and I think it would be helpful for people who are on the fence. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, that's I'll forget by this time next week. Cause I have 94 zoom calls. Hey Katt, remind me that's our theme next week is irrational fear and being afraid of what you already don't have. Yeah. Anyway. All right, we're going to run. I get a wrap guys. Thanks so much for a great conversation. Love having these calls withyou guys! Have a good day. Thank you.