Pre-probate leads, Real estate side hustles, and Self banking in 2022 | Real Estate Podcast

Weekly real estate mastermind for probate and estate professionals.  In this episode, we discuss: How to buy real estate and self-bank with it, even if you’re starting with $0; writing private mortgages to grow your cash; how to market to pre-probate leads with mail and inbound strategies; what real estate side hustles can help new investors and agents make money right now; how to build a Facebook group around your probate business; and how to coordinate vendors to get probate property services complete quickly.

You can also watch this and most episodes of Estate Professionals Mastermind podcast on YouTube: https://youtu.be/CV6yR4dNnr4

0:00 Probate Mastery Course Update: Hello, Kajabi LMS! (Probate Mastery Course)
0:49 Where should a real estate investor put their money? Liquidity vs. Yield vs. Minimizing taxes (Investment Strategy)
8:50 Self-banking in 2022 (Self-Banking)
15:05 Can you make money writing private mortgages to real estate investors? (Private Lender)
18:35 Buying estates and heirship (Probate Investing)
19:59 Sending pre-probate letters vs. facebook groups for pre probate leads (Facebook Group)
22:00 The best way to market to pre-probate leads with a postcard (Pre-Probate Marketing)
23:29 Post probate vs. pre-probate leads: Why closed probate leads are a better use of marketing spend (Probate Marketing)
29:25 How to set up a Facebook Group for your Probate Brand (Facebook Marketing for Real Estate)
31:52 Coordinating vendor services for the probate property timeline (Probate Business)
35:21 Side hustles to make money as a new real estate investor or agent (Making Money)
49:58 Networking with Estate Planning Attorneys for co-marketing (Probate Success Story)
54:08 What happened to All The Leads Chad? (All The Leads Probate Company)

Full show notes, video links, and transcript:

Certified Probate Expert Course: https://probatemastery.com/probate-training-course-for-real-estate-agents-investors/

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Transcript

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All right. Welcome everybody to our weekly probate mastery group coaching call and the estate professionals mastermind podcast. I do want to mention one thing that we have as you guys know, I introduced you to McKenna a couple of weeks ago, our new integrator and a big part of her role is transitioning us to a more effective tech stack and a set of tools. So this is that week we've all been dreading, but it's so far so good. We're actually transitioning the Probate Mastery course off of its current LMS onto a Kajabi account so we can expand our product offering this quarter and the rest of this year. But if you're already enrolled in the course expect an email from us with your new login. And then over the coming weeks, we'll have some more good news for you guys. If you have trouble, just, email support at probate mastery and Tom or McKenna, will jump right up to help you. And first up this week, we have Michael, how can we help you? So recently my shares in some syndications the underlying investment was sold. And so for whatever reason, right now, a very large percentage of my- an uncomfortably large percentage- of my net worth is invested in the amazing shrinking dollar. Normally I would just set it out and invest it for a couple of years in some other passive investment. But what's different now is I'm preparing to be a licensed probate professional, which involves potentially partnering with the decedent's estate. It might be asset secured loans; there are reserves that I might need as I'm starting a new business, all these things I'm learning about trying to figure out how to put together. What are some questions that I should be asking myself? And maybe some resources I should be checking out when I try to decide how much liquidity I should be keeping. That makes sense. Yes. Very good question and very good timing on that. That's it's a good time to talk about it. I think I've shared with you guys. I'm pretty open about my own finances. For the first time in my life, I have gotten rid of all of my cash, but three months of living expense. And for me, I live pretty modestly. So I've gone as low I'm as low as $30,000 in my personal bank account. That's as low as I've been since I was in my twenties, like since I was waiting tables. The reason for that is if you go to shadow stats.com and you look at the 1980 measure of inflation before we manipulated the current CPI you'll see, and that's not updated on the latest CPI that's from last month, If you include food, housing and energy inflation is running north of 13%. Once that is updated, it's not updated by the minute, but I expect the real number of inflation really after what happened in the last week and a half, we're probably north of 20%. The feds in a conundrum where if they decide to raise rates or taper asset purchasing, it could collapse equities prices. So I don't think they're in a position to do more than rattle the sabre. It seems to me, and this is again, I'm not a financial advisor not your fiduciary. I'm just sharing with you how I assess my own risk. But for me, the most dangerous investment right now is sitting in cash. There will always be someone who will disagree with me. But for me, I invest in assets that have proven in the past to do well in a recessionary environment. From a macro economic status, we're actually in a deflationary period that will last the next few decades because a large percentage of the valuation in our equities is driven from technology. And that technology by nature is deflationary when it comes to the economic principles. It takes away jobs and adds efficiency and it lowers costs. So the fed is fighting itself based on the economy we built, we emerged into an information economy, but we left our system set up for an industrial economy. And we're just not like we're going to have to suffer the transition of that. So for me, as far back as four years ago, I started to move, my assets accordingly. I like syndications and passive income, but oftentimes that comes with a real lack of liquidity. But for me, I have taken a chance. I spent off all of my liquidity. I had nearly a million dollars in cash sitting And I was always that, you gotta hold on the strike money. But once the leavers were pulled in early 2020, or, early to mid 2020, I was no longer comfortable holding my own cash. So I started to move that off into different buckets. I like cryptocurrency from a long-term perspective, it's not something that I trade, trade on. Like a lot of people do. I control mining and I control algorithmically managed crypto funds to benefit from that. I invest in real estate lending funds. I feel like real estate is a good asset class. I think that these current prices aren't realistic. Long-term I think a lot of them are driven by cheap debt that shouldn't have naturally been part of the system So what goes up must come down. Unless we commit to an agenda like Japan has, and we just keep printing and perpetuity and we can make that last as long as they have. Potentially, I'm wrong. But for me, I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball and I'm not the smartest economist in the world, but when it comes to protecting my own assets, I don't want them in cash right now, but I won't tolerate less than 18% annual yield. And I won't tolerate less than a liquidity in less than a year. So for example, one of the funds that I've invested in recently Here's the deal. I want to give as much as I possibly can to you guys, this is being broadcast everywhere, and I don't want to get sponsors or friends or anyone with private registered funds in hot water. Let me check out the legality of suggesting and sharing with you guys exactly where I'm investing my money. It's a relationship business. I don't want any of this to be construed as broadcast marketing and me acting on their behalf, but I'm investing in mezzanine finance funds with zero default rates liquidity within the day. So when a guy needed to do a commercial real estate deal, he goes to a private finance company. And just like what you guys would think of, in residential real estate, they're most often they call it hard money guys, but in commercial, there are private lenders in the commercial space that scale bigger than banks, like bigger than in FDIC institutions. So I'm invested in one of those; I'm invested in solar development to eliminate taxation. You can actually choose not to pay taxes by investing in opportunities, own solar, gas, oil, things like that. I've focused on minimizing the taxation, but putting it in places where I can get at least a double digit yield with liquidity within 12 months. Some of the investments that I invest in have liquidity within days, even though they are private offerings, it's because the fund managers, I have underwritten tens of thousands of different funds. I tend to look at the people first and then what they're, what those people are offering. I've gotten it down to about 10 that I trust. And then I want to suggest right here right now. I need to make sure that's okay with them and understand the legalities of it from an SEC standpoint, my concern is that someone points and says, well, Chad was a representative of you. He was saying, you're the best thing ever. And that bleeds into their sec registration. And I'm not willing to take that chance, but. So sorry for the rambling, but what I would suggest is continue to look at syndication. Is there a really great way to park capital where you're not having to be the operator and it's not taking away from the dollar productive activity of what you're starting to build. Finding those funds with high yield, low risk and liquidity is extremely difficult. I can point you right to them once uh, you know, kind of talk to them and make sure that's okay to do. But that's what I'm doing. I completely abandoned my retirement plan. I've been using self-directed checkbook control IRA since 2011. I saw the government threatened to move the goalposts to May. They thoroughly moved the goalpost by November. And I was out of the way of that. So I now use, and we'll have an episode publishing upon one of our ask the expert episode. This is probably my, it might be two weeks, but I got Damian Lupo who is the founder of EQRP.com. And we took a deep dive on how you can protect yourself and be in charge of your own retirement. The way their accounts are structured, you have a traditional side and a Roth side. I actually chose to take 100% of my money and move it to Roth, incur taxes, and then instead of paying the taxes, invest that additional capital. Into solar development. So I was able to restructure my retirement accounts and play by their new rules and avoid the tax penalties of that by reinvesting into opportunities the IRS wants me to invest in,. I'm very interested in moving this community toward a conversation like that. I just haven't. I need to be sure that, because I don't have a securities license I need to make sure certain things I say are okay. And it's new to me to talk about this at this level, at this publicly. But my advice in short is get the hell out of cash, getting into income producing assets and the more liquidity you have in those income producing assets, the better off you will be because there will come a moment where this will turn, the Piper will have to be paid and there will be blood in the streets and you want to have liquidity. The other thing that you might consider doing is self banking and there's different ways. I'm I self bank and at least three different ways. One is I buy real estate cheap because it's something I understand and I know how to do it. I can find those deals. So I'll get a piece of real estate anywhere from 10 to 50 cents on the dollar. I'll go in and do any CapEx that's needed. I'll get an appraisal. And then I go to, I do I use first citizens bank. If you have over a 770 credit score, they'll do an 89.9 LTV HELOC or home equity line of credit that's prime plus one and a quarter. And it can be closed within days. So I buy real estate and turn it into banks. So I have straight capital sitting, but I'm not paying interest and I'm not losing money to inflation. And I don't have to pay taxes to have access to the capital. That's one simple way to self-bank. Another way is I, I fund to the maximum, my fund index, universal life plans. That's something that be careful, there are thousands to choose from and only a handful of them are worth it but if you get the right index universal life plan, you can fund that as aggressively as you would like the death benefit will continue to rise. So it doesn't become a modified endowment contract. The more money you stuff into it, the higher your death benefit or the higher amount of money you can borrow from yourself. So with that, I can loan myself money at 0% interest for the rest of my life. If I choose I can bank interest free. It has all the benefits of a Roth IRA. So I'm putting post tax money into it. It's indexed to the S and P 500, every two months it indexes. There's a 0% stop-out. So I can't actually go lower. I also don't have a ceiling. A lot of value Ls will have stop outs, but they ha they also have ceiling limits. They don't want, they won't allow you to earn more than seven or 8%. So I self bank through index universal life. And with that, I have a long-term care plan. I have a chronic illness, terminal illness, disability. Basically my aging plan is in place through the index universal life. That makes all of those other policies as a rider, those other policies are very affordable. If I were to go out and be underwritten individually for each of those policies, the premium would be ridiculous. Right. But by rolling that into an IUL, I was part of partly a retirement plan, partly an estate plan But it's also partly a self banking plan. So I can loan myself that money. I can loan mile seize that money. As I build that balance, you can actually build a qualified retirement plan. The reason I chose that structure, is I believe that's the last frontier that the government isn't going to screw with because that's where a lot of big unions and a lot of their constituents hold their big, massive retirement accounts and pension funds that really shouldn't be messed with. So that's another way that you can actually set that up and, you can self bank from that. You can treat it like a traditional retirement account and just buy mutual funds, but you can also get very creative with it because it has a lot of loopholes that were left in place by the policy makers, for their constituents who want to play the game. So follow the billionaires and learn how to play the game. So that's three ways that I self bank. It's no different than how banks actually achieve leverage. So if we can gain control of one asset and then leverage that asset, can we create new money? And if you can gain control of that first asset with no money down, like with a subject to for anyone who's thinking well, that I'm starting with zero. I can go grab a house subject to the existing lien, staying in place, make sure there's equity with that. Go put a home equity line of credit against it. You can cross collateralize zero money down into millions of dollars depending on your level of grit and financial savviness, but those are the things I'm doing. I'm minimizing the amount of cash I hold. I try to obviously minimize the amount of risk. I'm really not that risk tolerant. I underwrite hard and long. A lot of times I will spend two years watching a fund before I even set up a pitch call. Like I'll get to know people who did invest with them. I'll watch how that performs over time. And then I'll step in. And so far I'm not even, I'm not even going to say it so far so good. I haven't had any relationships that went south with, with sponsors or GPs and everyone of them has performed incredibly well. So that's the name of the game for me, I'm not really playing the real estate game as much as I was. Just because, like I said, I believe a lot of these valuations are frothy. I don't think they're based in reality. And I think that when I look at the backend of the financial system through the federal reserve data I see a lot of rough water ahead of us, and it's easy to cover up when you keep signing bill after bill into law and printing trillions of dollars. But eventually that has to stop. And that either stops by allowing the economy to rebalance and actually let recourse happen. Or it stops with a currency collapse next yet the replacement of us as the exchange currency, which this time is very different. We have a whole new asset class that is truly decentralized and, crypto wasn't around when England did exactly what we're doing and seeded power to the U S dollar. This time's a little different, we're not ready to move to Chinese currency as a reserve. Maybe there's an IMF coin. Maybe there's a central bank of us federal reserve coin, maybe Bitcoin. I don't know, but those are all uncertainties for me. I want to be relatively liquid because I think the economy we're emerging into, the monetary policy we're emerging into, and keep in mind guys, certain decisions by policy makers could extend what I'm talking about could be extended out over a decade, depending on what level of desperate intervention they might come up with. So I'm just sharing with you uh, what's going on inside of my head and the actual actions I'm taking, but I feel like I'm in a position now where if I needed to come up with hundreds of thousands of dollars today, I can do that through lines of credit and self banking. And if I need to come up with millions over the next quarter to six months, I'm also in a position to do that. So I might miss out on. But I don't have, all of my money is at play. All of it yielding at least double digit returns. And I live like a peasant for now. I live in a camper. I spent 27,000 bucks last year, but am I'm having fun! I lived in 23 states driving a diesel pickup and an eight and a half ton toy hauler. And I only spent 27 grand. Is that on apples alone or is that just food? That's everything now that doesn't, that does include like like the house paying for itself and all that, but yeah, 26 of that was for IPA Dave. Thank you. And just if I can just briefly summarize, so I think the way that I asked the question, I was trying to basically hone in on a number to keep in, that I could keep around my business purpose. And I think you expanded my thinking by saying you don't need to limit yourself to cash. I can still have the liquidity, but I can look for other types of things. And then I don't have to worry about this limitation I'm, I've been concerned about. One example. One thing I did have done in the past when I didn't have deals or didn't feel like doing deals, I would write mortgages. And it's a really good way. You can control the term. You can put money out to your local real estate investors association at three months, term, six months term, someone will bite, like, there's always somebody that says looking for capital, right? So I've done basically transactional mortgages for a short, as short as the window is six hours. But I did it for one point origination and one days in. And I was okay with that. I mean, it was a small wind. I didn't have any exposure. They were okay. Paying the fees. So don't forget that you can do stuff right there in your home market in the asset class. And if they go sideways, you double your money. Like for me, if you really understand real estate in your market, probably the lowest risk investment I've ever made, at least in my perception is a private mortgage to a real estate investor that I know is actually doing work because the day they closed, they start working on the house and improving and raising the value of the house. If they default, I assuming you only go to a certain LTV, I underwrite to a 50% loan to cost is as high as I'll go. So if he's buying it for 75 and he knows he's got to put 25 into it, I'm writing up to 50,000 or. Excuse me, that's loan to value, not loan to cost, unless it's in like a really low income neighborhood. And it's a deal that, that I don't feel great about, then I'll go loan to cost. But for the most part, the funds I invest with that I was talking to you about they're at a 54% loan to value about 70%, 75% loan to cost. But what happens if your investor goes sideways, if they get hit by a train, you step in, you use your first position to recover the asset, you finish the project and you double your money. Just see their plan through. For, so for me, that's one of the least risky ways that I was able to achieve. And I did one point origination, 15% interest. And if the original loan goes out of term, then the interest retroactively adjust to 18% across the life of the loan. No payments. Balloon at the end. Interest in principle due on maturity. Cause I'm a terrible bookkeeper and I've been traveling the world and I don't just don't feel like cash and checks every month. So the money all rolls back into one payment. There's one cashier check, one wire transfer back in or cashier's check in. And that's all I did for the entire term of the loan. And that's what I used. That's how I turned a $12,000 self-directed IRA into $128,000 over between 2014 and 2020. So over six years I 10 X the balance on that account only by doing what I just told you. That's all that account ever did was write simple, small balance investor mortgages, in first position. I've never taken a second. I've never had a single default. One went, one was a five-year a five-year note and not a single payment was missed. And that one did have interest only payments, but no payments were missed. So that's something that I think you, have the capacity for, and if you really understand your market, you could look at being an estate advance, offering estate advance advances and earning a fee for that. For that you could look at being a lender to estates, like you could actually use it, use cash to buy estates. Something that came up in a Facebook group or somewhere yesterday, we were talking about one of the options was, that I presented was what if you just buy the estate, like buy the heirship. And we have members. I don't know if Daniel Morrey is here today. Daniel has actually been doing that for a couple of years. He actually will find families who don't want to deal with. And he'll make them an offer. They'll essentially assign their, the, their heirship over to him and he becomes the administrator or he appoints an administrator and he works out the estate, just like the family would have to. And he, it's his gain once it's all completed. So there's things like that, that you can do that are in your wheelhouse already. You understand that it shouldn't be that risky because you have the team, you have the skillset and you have the capital. So there's creative things like that, that we can do in our own backyard. Or you can go back to the rabbit hole that accidentally took us down. Cause I didn't listen to your question. Good enough and do all those fun things. Well, thank you. So I'm looking forward to getting my business off the ground and you're awesome so appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for being here. That was a good question. Sorry. If I misunderstood you in the beginning and went too far So Jonathan said holding money in municipal bonds right now might not be a good idea. Not for me. I just don't see the yield that I'm looking for. Patrick, are you on here? Do you have a mic? I see your question writing, but you want to hear you are, go ahead. Basically, you know, now I've got a CSV file. That's got a bunch of, they're pre probate leads, And as I was going through them, it's there like three or four names, relatives, whatever, with almost every pre-probate record. So I was like, which one do you call? Which one do you mail, do you call and email. It went from what would have been normally a two or 300 records now to a 800 records possibly. So just trying to streamline the process. So I'm going to try to stay off on trying not to get on too many soap boxes today. The NFT is while we're talking. So I feel about as bullish about pre-probate as I do NFTs, I'm not a big fan of pre probates because of how most people market to pre probate leads. I don't personally, I don't believe that it's a list that should be direct marketed to. If you are direct marketing to that list, you should very strong, like try to hide that and make it look like a farming campaign or like a broadcast marketing effort. And the reason I say that is you're eventually going to mail some woman who just lost her 16 year old son to suicide. You're eventually gonna, you're gonna find a sister who just lost a brother that was the closest relationship in her life. And he was flat ass broke or into debt up to his head. And he's not going to have a probate. There is no value to the estate. By directly soliciting these people, you stand to stir up enough negative emotion to completely destroy your career reputation. And so please understand the risk and direct marketing to a preprobate list because you will eventually get someone whose ego says I'm going to get you boy! And they'll make it their life's mission to repay the harm they feel like that phone call gave them. I've just worked with a lot of people are super emotional Well, the way I believe a pre probate list should be marketed to is in a value based kind of broadcast approach. I really like, you've probably heard us discuss

in this community: 21:57

a community Facebook group. So a really good way to market to this list, set up a community Facebook group, invite your probate attorney, a grief counselor, a clergy member, a social worker, an elder care attorney, a nursing home employee. The police chief, get anyone in the community that can add credibility to it. Have each of them be an admin in the group. Have each of them have one of them present each every Tuesday night at eight o'clock archive that in there, make it a library for your community of life, transition like motivation, inspiration, help, where they can find support. Have psychologists come in and talk. Just talking. I have a psychologist come in and talk about grief counseling for an hour. She's going to earn business or he's going to get, he's going to get business from that, but you create a trusted resource in the community. Then you're ready to do your pre probate marketing campaign. You set up a postcard. There, you can be direct. You can say we are a social enterprise here in the community. We have a community resource that we like to make sure any family who suffered a loss as aware of please join our community@facebook.com forward slash Dallas grief, counselors dot, whatever that like you can. The other thing you can do is buy a domain. So you could have like, Dallas grief.com and then when somebody visits that it's simply a forward from your domain to the Facebook group, so you can have a really simple postcard in the mail that says go to Dallas grief dot. To, to get everything we can to see what all the ways we can help. And that is in my opinion, an acceptable first touch to the list. Sometimes there's going to be a few in there that are ready to roll today. The problem is you don't know who the decision maker is, who has the authority, and these can eat up hours upon hours of your time and end up being a social mediator and a detective and trying not to give legal advice where with probate, we pretty much know where we're at, right? But they've given public notice, Hey, we're ready to deal with this. We were ready to hear from the public about settling the estate and, because they're in probate, they're are significant assets there. So pre probate is one of those things that you should look at as a longer term, your cash conversion cycle is likely to run longer, not be shorter. I think a lot of people rush in and buy that list, thinking, oh, bloody, I'm getting upstream. I'm going to get all them motivated to sell! And what they find out is they get their ass handed to them as soon as they hit the phones and they don't, the people who are talking, they might be motivated, but they don't have the authority to sell assets anyways. So to me it's not a very dollar productive list. I would, I think a better list than pre probate as post probate because everyone else has already given up. No, one's no one's prospecting them anymore. So go to propstream, pull a list of properties that transferred with an inter family, $0 transfer and mail. They just inherited an asset. They can do whatever the hell they want with it. So I like post probate leads better than I do pre probate leads. No one's ever coined that as a marketing term and throwing it out there. So maybe I should. But I think that the inbound approach, like put a resource out there, invite them to the resource and let them reach to you when they're ready to have a conversation as a way to do it, where long-term, you don't mess up, a lifetime reputation. I've thought a lot about this when I was a pre probate lead 60 or 90 days ago. I thought a lot about this and whether I should be so opinionated and I'll tell you, like having my father pass away and just being really empathetic to that now. I didn't, it didn't change my opinion. It pretty much solidified my opinion. If somebody would have reached out to my mom about selling the farm when she was just trying to figure out how to function in life, it would have been my life's work to come after that person and make sure that they had a hard road to hoe going forward. It's just inappropriate the way some people approach it. And I'm not saying that you're doing that and that you have done that. I'm really just showing you my true opinion. Just be cautious guys. It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and one phone call to lose it. Well, one of the things was, and I see David here, we talked about this, but a lot of the properties that are associated are already sold by the time we're getting to them. So that was one of the thoughts behind it, trying to get before they get to that. So if someone had made the decision, just hadn't gone through the process. So I would suggest that rather than buying pre probate leads and I don't know where you're getting them don't care. Do what David's doing. He's playing the long game by building a community resource. He's investing six figures into a blog that actually has valuable content for all the people in his community. He's going to become the hub of the traffic when someone's in life transition. So the money you spend on pre probate, spend on a really good copywriter on a content person. If you get value from like, look at what we do. The amount of detail that Katt puts into a single post would take me two hours to explain to you guys, but she does it right. And we reached the right people. So take our idea. Let's take our model and build your own version of it locally in your market, build a community like this, have a conversation at the same time every week offer real value to those people. And it might take six months, but so might getting pre probate to work. In six months you could actually be the center of that conversation. And again, I want to go back, bring your vendors into it. They already have credibility in the marketplace. They have a law degree, a law and a badge. You bring in law enforcement, social workers grief counselors, clergyman that won't even, you don't even have to talk about real estate or law or finance. Just talk about what matters to. What happens? Like what about the widow identity crisis that happens in the first 60 to 90 days after someone loses a husband that she's been married to her whole life. What happens when your social security income is cut in half? And you don't know if that retroactive payment that you think is coming is actually coming in the price of medicine and food has gone up 40%. So bringing in people from bringing, non-profits bringing people from food banks to talk about where they can get help, knowing that damn good half of the traffic that comes to that is going to be flat broke. And they're not going to go through probate. They're on the pre-probate. But they won't be probated because they don't have any assets, but you're still putting that Goodwill out there providing a community resource. They're going to go tell their friends when they lose somebody when they lose somebody. I mean, you obviously have the, time and energy to throw it at the pre-probate prospecting. My best answer is reallocate that time, energy and capital in the building, something like a really bad-ass blog website, Facebook group, or all the above, where anyone in the community before they hit a pre-probate list, they come through your community to learn about all the assisted living centers around you. Because you've had a half, a dozen assisted living facilities come and join your Wednesday night calls and you've built an archive. It can be, one, one simple conversation just like this one can originate on zoom and find its way onto YouTube, and on every podcast platform in the world and your website, and then in your Facebook group. So you can take an hour a week and get your team together, but that can reach hundreds of thousands of people over time. So that's what I would say. Otherwise on the pre probate, do something like a house value campaign. So drop a postcard, offer a free house value and see which ones own real estate that way. It's not that contentious. It's not, Hey, we know someone that had real estate and it should find its way into the hands of whomever has the most social authority in the family. It's likely that person will end up being the administrator. But it's probably not the answer people wanted to hear, but that's how I think you should market to pre probate. Jonathan, have you got a mic today? Yes, sir. All right. So I've started a Facebook group. It's called, Just ask Jay Hawk' and I've started inviting people into there, but environment is everything. And so I'm really keying in on what you're saying about adding clergy members, social workers, people from nursing, and, I'm seeing this, but my question is: is there anyone that we should think about keeping out or is it just open, like in your opinion, is there anybody we should prohibit from coming in? Anyone who doesn't provide real value if they're just coming to self-promote and not offer something that's actually useful. Anyone who meets that definition. That's good. Cause I was thinking of different agents that, that will, that would definitely come in just to scope out or yeah, so you need to have, you should have group joined questions and, ask them for an email address, ask them why they're joining, what they hope to benefit, how they found out about you don't get too complex because then you'll limit the number of people who join your group, but you can use. You can increase the number of people who will answer those questions by explaining why you're asking them. For example, hi, welcome to the group. As you might imagine to protect the integrity of this group is a difficult thing for the admins. So we'd like to ask you just a few short questions, please answer authentically, or you will not gain access to the group. And you preface that. And then you say, okay, what's your email address: we will not sell your email, but from time to time, we want, we send out recordings of valuable contributions that our members have made to the community. If you'd like to receive those drop your email. You could ask them for a phone number. I probably wouldn't because you're building an online community. But ask them what they hope to gain. Which if any speakers they would like to hear to see like speakers or members of the community, would they like to hear from. What is the number one thing that they feel like needs to be dealt with right now? And you'll over time, you'll get to know your audience through the answers to those questions. For example, if 60% of people who joined this week are all trying to figure out how to file the last tax return because April 15th is approaching, then now it's time to have your CPA come in. And he actually talks about filing the last tax return and what that means if you're the administrator of an estate, whether that's through trust or probate. Just one example of how a question could really help you go, oh, I see an immediate need. Now I know who I need to get on this. But you can use questions like that to filter the group and make sure you can maintain consistency and integrity in the group. Next up Ryan, how are you today? Hey, Chad how's it going? So I'll just have a quick question. I'm just kind of confused. I was listening to a recording somewhere. I don't know what it was, but it was with you and somebody mentioned in their USP about providing a free service and you're talking about like a social enterprise and I'm just kinda, I'm trying to wrap my head around it, how it kind of works out if I'm meant to be charging on some level. And if I am like, how does that playing out? And what's the advice you have for there? Cause I'm buying my first round of Probate leads from all the leads later this week. And I want to get going on that. But I just want to know how. I don't really support mainly because like I said earlier, I'm a crappy bookkeeper. I don't like chasing commissions, like affiliate commissions or taking fees from a vendors. What I've teach is build a vertically integrated solution that can help with anything and everything the family could possibly want and have a way to either directly or indirectly monetize each of those. So what I mean by indirect monetization is just like I talked about just now I've Jonathan gets his CPA to do a pitch next Wednesday night, his Facebook community. And the next time that CPA setting with a guy saying: I got some extra cash. I need to buy some rental property, you know any good realtors? Well, the CPA is going to go, Hey, Jonathan did me a solid, he got me three new clients on that for doing one hour a Facebook call. So that's how I track payment is through reciprocal referrals. Like if I'm doing something, if I'm consistently, referring people to my vendors, I expect the same. Right. I expect some opportunities to come back my direction. So don't overthink it. Like I don't collect fees. I don't take any of the revenue. And none of it comes through my books. What happens in the last few minutes of an appointment, I'll actually bring together the strategy. I'll explain to them who all is going to be part of the service that we're providing and that they should expect an email from me the second I get back to my office, when I get back to my office, I'll say, okay, so guys, here's the schedule we agreed to. And I use the target date. That's our closing date, the day that we turn them in the private lenders. But the day the real estate closes all say, here's, we're shooting for a target date of July 15th. So that means we have to have a ratified contract. Let's just say by June 1st. So we have about a 45 day window. In order to do that, we need to have the photography done no later than May 31st in order to have that, we've got to have staging done the day before that. And then before that we have to have a full clean, and before that we have to have this and you back it all the way up to today. And what I do is I put at ease on each of those. I say, this is a stager. Her phone number is this. This is the cleaner her phone number is this is the photographer. His phone number is this. And I literally lay out a schedule of everything that will happen between the listing appointment and the closing. And then I copy every single party that is listed on that email and I ask them everyone to respond in thread. So please reply all to any correspondence about this case. And that's how I keep everybody on the same page, but everyone knows who else is part of the deal and what their role is. It holds them accountable. So you're essentially laying out an org chart saying, all right here's the schedule. Here's what you're accountable for. And if anyone trips up, everyone knows, cause it's all on the same email. So there's social accountability built into it that way. And it's makes them eager to do as good a job as they can. And that's just all I've ever done. I've never actually had to fire a vendor because they didn't come through. Like people get me back. Like the business will come back your way. So I'm currently not a realtor. So I guess the point of the phone call is to get an appointment. Right. And the point of the appointment would either be to try to get a listing or to buy it from them. Right. So what if in a scenario where, they don't decide to sell their property with me? Like, is there a way that I can still provide value by, being a consultant and providing vendors and but then how am I charging in that scenario? What's your strategy like as an investor? Well, I'm brand new. I've like, I've never done a deal. So like I'm brand new to investing. Like I was thinking that like, I could use this like service as a little bit of like a side hustle kind of thing while providing value and then learn, as I go and then maybe start buying deals along the way. Are you capitalized? Do you have cash? Very little. Do you have good credit? I have good credit. Yeah. Okay. Have you spoken to banks about using that good credit for real estate? In what capacity? To like buy something? Yeah. I'm working on buying something right now. Okay, perfect. I mean, that's really where it starts. Like if you, well, let me ask you this. Are you getting into real estate investing because you want to make a quick cash or build wealth building. Okay. You can go on these appointments. If you, if your answer was, I just want to wholesale, I'm looking for quick cash. I'm going to buy houses for 50 cents on the dollar. You're going to find limited opportunity in this list. Like you want to hit it early and hit it hard and do followup for 12 months. But you're going to lose most of that money to taxes anyways. It's competitive. Like it's a tough business where your answer was better. You're looking to build wealth. So you can actually get into these for little to no money down, depending on what your finance strategy is. And you can build up a hell of a balance sheet, collecting free houses. And in a lot of cases, for example, if the family, there's a reverse mortgage on there, they're checked out. They don't even want to talk about it anymore. They think mom and dad gave the house to the government. If you haven't watched the episode, Jason and I did last week, watch that. That's a very common scenario. A lot of times families will just walk away from homes with reverse mortgages, even though there's equity. So as a. Real estate investor with limited resources. You step in, you bought a house subject to these existing lane, staying in place. You go to a community bank that does debt service coverage ratio lending you say, Hey, look, I have a 700 credit score, even though it doesn't matter because this house was rented for a thousand, my mortgage payment to you is only 800. So you've got the DCR to approve me for the loan. Please refinance do it fast. I only have 30 days, but that's just one example of how you can actually collect a free house and that book's on your balance sheet. And then the next time you fill out a personal financial. The loan is easier to get the next time. Eventually you can start to sell those assets off as the tenants pay, gain you gain equity from the tenants, making the payments. So it can be that, you can bootstrap at that level where you can actually build a portfolio of rental income and equity without having any extra. But you can also save up 20, 30,000 in cash. Get in one cheap, go re go refinance it instead of wholesaling it. And then you don't pay taxes on that additional capital you got back off the refi, when you do your bur you're, there's no tax that's due on that because it's. Non-equity right. And then you can decide whether or not you all got house forever, but in theory, if we don't take away the step up basis and destroy you as well, it's like you could ride that house on your balance sheet all the way through until you die and then your heirs get a step up basis and no taxes owed. So if that wealth, if you're willing to forego short term cashflow to build long-term wealth, you can get into a lot more of these deals than the average wholesaler, which means you should try to go on as many appointments as possible. If you get a realtor involved, then you can, and you might, because you're, you have limited experience. Decide that taking each of you going on every appointment as the best thing to do. So you go, you sit down and you hear the family out. You, the realtor understands what you can offer cash, offer creative financing, those options. So they know when to stay in their lane and out of yours. And the same, like when you see that a creative financing play isn't going to work, or you can't buy it at a deep discount, then you say, you know what? James is really our brokerage expert. That's why I want to ask him to come along today. So we could give you the, the highest level of service possible. James, why don't you tell them what this looks like from a listing standpoint? I think that's the best service we can provide. So then you can do like a real time handoff and the appointment. So gotcha. But you don't think there's a way to monetize the service, like regardless of whether or not they want to sell it with me as far as bringing the team. Yeah, bring a team to the table, offer consultation, just like, basically be a concierge for the entire process. And then if they do decide to do it with me, like towards the end, then I can take that off of. The purchase price or something, I'll say this, I think 100% of families I've helped in the past. What would pay me a service fee in addition to any money I made on the real estate. If I ask at the end of it in the beginning, there's not a chance in hell. I could have sold that. Like, because people don't trust what they don't know. And there's what we're proposing is a vertically integrated solution that does it, that handles all of their problems and we don't get paid until we do exactly what we promise. They're thrilled to pay us in the end when they see our real value, but on the front, it's tough. And so I would say. Like it would be a very difficult sell to sell as a service. If there's, if you're asking for any money up front, like if you're looking to monetize it. And so by not charging a fee for service, but earning a real estate commission or are being paid through the real estate side of the deal, we don't necessarily have to sell ourselves. We just have to come up with a solution that, that makes them, that solves their problems. So I'm not going to say don't try it cause I'd love to see your result. But based on my experience, it's going to be a tough sales job. Gotcha. Cause you've got to, you've got to in order to get any money up front you gotta convince them that you're credible and trustworthy and you're going to be there the whole time. And, you know what you could like one potential model and it's not going to help you earn a lot of cash right now. The average estate is not closing for six to nine months. So one model where you could do away with that front end objection to say, listen, we have a social enterprise here in the community. We provide a, an end service, and we actually get paid as a, as one of the creditors on the estate. So you would have to wait a minimum of four months through the creditors period. And then for the next trial, before you were invoice got paid so that the cash conversion cycle on it's long, and the amount of work you're going to have to do is as, as up there, if you're going to be, coordinating. And like, if I were going to do it as a service, I would collect payments. I would take fees on those payments. And then I would pass the payments along to my vendors. And I would have a team coordinating each of the vendors in their activity. I think that you're stepping over dollars to pick up Dom's. Gotcha. I appreciate your input. Yup. But Ryan, like good question. Like you're, it's obvious, you're thinking this through, like you're looking at all the possibilities. So I don't mean to discourage you, any, anyone from ever trying anything like that? I think I'm still gonna try it. I'm definitely because I have very limited resources right now. Like I'm just starting, I mean, I'm only 24, so like I'm just trying to just field all my options and figure it out and just like build momentum, get some traction going and then get into what I think is the real way to do this that you teach in the course. Have you ever, so you're not a licensed agent. You have an interest in getting licensed. I do. I've gone back and forth with the. There's a couple of ways you can make cash quickly and it's kinda crappy work, but in your position, like even not being licensed, go to RR Donnelley, a commercial real estate firm, R Donnelley, and get on their list to do BPOs and drive-by appraisals. And I forget what they call it, but they'll pay you 50 bucks to ride by a shopping mall and snap, a few pictures with your phone. You can fulfill on a couple of minutes and 50 bucks shows up. You can do BPOs, broker, price, opinions commercial BPO's. You can do residential BPO's find little things like that, that you're out driving for dollars. Anyway, as you're moving around town, it just gives you opportunity to just a little base hits like a little bit of cashier, a little bit of cash there, but it adds up. And especially if you're in what market are you in? Yeah, there's going to be tons of that. So what happens like lenders will order BPOs through commercial real big commercial houses, like Cushman Wakefield, RR Donnelley. So the bank will say, Hey, we've got this mezzanine loan on this. It's, it's the maturity matures in five years, we haven't checked on the asset. Can you guys get out and get a guy out there? Well, they'll sub that out and pay someone 50 to 150 bucks just to drive up there and take pictures of it. When I had, when I was tight on cash I've done that before. I mean, I've gotten as much as 200 bucks to take six photos and upload them onto a website. Like it was easy money. So there's things like that you can do think about inside the real estate industry, what caught, what type of ancillary service income can I raise to, to create some capital for myself. So if you can do 10 of those BPO's, in a day like a day while you're out in the field already, it's an extra 500 bucks or not 500 bucks. No, Facebook campaigns are not in the 25,000 in revenue. Right. So there's things like that you can do to do you have a mentor, like have you connected with any investors in your market? Yeah. I have a couple of people that I can talk with regularly. Okay. And have you asked them what it might look like if you burned out meals to them? What they'll pay you as a referral? Yeah, I think that. I could definitely bring that up. That's another way, like the thing is like in your mindset right now, what I see is fear is dominating you and it's creating some barriers that are going to be, that might take you more time to overcome. The reason I see it is because I did the same damn thing to myself. I'm only 24. I don't have that much money. Like you're leading with that's your identity as an investor right now. And I'm trying to be easy on you and encouraging, not discouraging, but get rid of this think and thinking man only 24 bullshit 24 to the new 40 like, look at what some 24 year olds have accomplished. Yeah. I am I'm, I'm just 24 and I got a long runway in front of me. It was a much better way to think about that. And instead of, I don't have cash now, I don't have any cash. It's like, I'm working on getting, replacing my cash or whatever that is just a healthier belief, but I'm trying to come up with ideas that might kind of raise your confidence level as you step into this and give you some cash and show you that there are a lot of ways to make money in real estate thousands. Yeah, absolutely. No I completely appreciate everything you're saying. I do think maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying. I'm pretty confident. I'm a confident dude. But like when I said only I meant, I pretty much meant just 24 just getting started. I'm a hungry dude. Some of this stuff that you said is definitely stuff I haven't thought of. And I really. Yeah. Talk to a couple of those guys that are buying and selling a lot of houses and be like, Hey man, I'm out there pounding the streets. There's deals. I don't want, like, what if I bring you a deal? What can you do? I've I, at one point I didn't ha I had more appetite for deals and I could, then I was finding in deals. I actually went to these door to door meat salesman and offered them 500 bucks on every house I closed on. And then I went to the Schwan's guy and I went to the mailman and talking to mailman. So like I was offering people that. And I mean, you never know, they might offer you a thousand bucks, a bird dog, for every deal, you bird dog to them and then see what you can find. And are you then prop stream? Yeah, I've been using prop stream the app the drive app. I don't, I've I just found out that prompt stream has the driver. Yeah, that's a really man. We used to do it on pencil and paper. Like I would get on a motorcycle and spend hours writing every sheet. That's what I was doing. I had a, I mean, it was, some neighborhoods didn't like it too much, but I literally wrote every street and pen and paper wrote down every single address that I could find that looked like it might be vacant. Then I would come back, go to list source, bought a list or wherever I could get it and then work on it. But I'm. That's awesome. I mean, it sounds like you're turning over all the stones, but talk to those guys and say, listen I'm just getting into this. I intend to be a contender, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can and raise as much cash as I can. How can I help you scale your business and the good investors, the ones who you can look to as mentors, they'll be like, well, tell you what, man, I got more work than I can do. You can do this. And they might hire you to do marketing. They might hire you to put out bandit signs or whatever that could be. I tried it when I first got into the investors that I first found in Roanoke, where they saw me as just as competition and tried to set me up for failure, try to get me into deals like a house with mold and, they were gonna let me overpay for it. And thankfully I dodged those bullets and did just fine, but the people I met with. In the same town, they were just hanging out in a different place were really outstanding men who owned a hundred to 700 houses that were a wealth of knowledge. They had that, that contribution mindset, they were happy to throw a bone and share deal and this and that. And that's all you're looking for. I've found the easiest way to find the investors with the highest level of integrity is usually through wealth advisors or commercial banks. They, there's there, like, it's not saying that someone who doesn't own a hundred houses, it doesn't have integrity. It's just someone who does pretty much has to, right? Like they've had to build a pretty good reputation in the community. So they're networking with community banks, the loan officers on the commercial side of community banks, they can point you to the guy that owns 50, 75 rental houses and is looking for more deals are looking for more help. There's hard money lenders. You can actually go find investors for the hard money lenders that they typically would pay you a one to 2%. Sometimes they can afford to pay you a one to 2% fee because they're taking a three to 4% fee on the front end, right. For origination. So anyways, a few more ideas So Ryan, anyways, I, even if I like I'm only here to encourage you. I hope I didn't overstep my bounds with you there, but I thought I saw a limiting belief, so I figured I would bring it up. Yeah. I'd rather you do that than not say anything. So I appreciate it. Yup. Stanley you're up next? How can we help you? All right. How are you doing? Good. How are you doing welcome back. haven't seen you in a couple of weeks. Yeah. I have been put in everything that she had been staying at their practice, so it's keeping me busy. Nice. How's it going? Yeah, it went well. I recently attended the estate planning councils meeting last week. So I networked with some attorneys there. So actually, what was your reception? Yeah, it went very well because they I mean, verbatim, they said to me that they've never met a real estate professional who offers all of these services, boy. Yeah. Yeah. So that was definitely awesome. And so I met, I went on some lunch meetings yesterday with one in particular and we discussed how we can help each other out. And she was definitely receptive to everything I've said such as, co-hosting seminars and having her and I create a list of legal and non-legal obligations and things like that. So she was definitely open. So it that's amazing. Before we move on Stanley, a couple of things. You've been part of this community for what month, month, and a half? Yeah. And how much experience do you have in real estate man? Absolutely. None right now. I'm going to, I'm going to put you on the spot. Did you expect when you approached those attorneys with your offer, what did you expect? Did you expect them to be so generous and like welcome you to a lunch meeting? And like just all of a sudden it worked? Man I, I really don't not answer that question. I know before, before when I was going to attorneys, it was just mostly selfish. Hey I do this, I buy properties. Can you send me properties? And I was getting shut down, left and right. Nothing at all. But once I started with this approach, like they were all receptive. It was just overwhelming. Yeah, well, that's awesome. That's so that's a typical result. I'll put you on the spot. Cause a lot of folks finally, 6, 8, 10 months, and we'll go visit their first attorney and they're like, oh my God, that was so easy. Like, Hey, I got a deal already. So that's awesome that this early in your experience, you're trusting the advice and you're moving forward, taking action on it. That's really awesome, man. I'm glad you got the result I expected, even if you didn't. Yeah. Not every attorney is going to be a good fit, but for the ones who are good they would love you from here till forever. They'll love you. Yeah. Have you gotten the watch the last couple of attorney episodes we've published along with Rilus Dana, Al Nicoletti. We've got two more. We have two more in the can. Two more different perspectives and Ele you're on here today. One of them is your neighbor and she's a Colombian. So I'm excited for you guys to meet? Yeah. Okay. What's her name? Oh, what's her name? Well, you'll find out whenever we publish! All right. All right. So I don't want to keep the north Miami market and I've told her I was going to connect her and Ele. So. All right. Well, anyways, I interjected, did you have a question Stanley or did you just want to share that? Yeah, I just want the share that I just encourage everyone just to keep on going and just listen because this stuff. And it definitely works. And the second and way to take action and get out there. I'm glad you got the, got a consistent result. Yeah. All these fairs that I had, it is just, it wasn't real. It was just me. It wasn't real at all. And the question that I do have is: I'm in a process, I've already created the list of non-legal and legal obligations, and I'm trying to circumvent the anti solicitation laws. And what I did was in the very footer, I said, my company does not provide legal or tax advice below are a list of trusted attorneys that we proudly endorsed for your consideration. And I listed three attorneys. Is that fine? And now you've got, all three of them know that they're there. They have a fair chance they're held accountable to do their best work because they know they're competing with your two other topics, right? Yeah. Yeah. They're asleep. Like what I said earlier, like putting all of the team members on one email, letting them know that everyone else is watching it, you'll get a better result. You'll get a higher level of service from each vendor that you work with. Yeah. And it's not anything you're not setting the trap for them. You're just asking them to do, you know, what you need done with some accountability. Yeah, for sure. Sure. But yeah, that's all I have today, Chad. I appreciate it. Sure. Let's see. We are over Harriet has a hand up. Harriet, how can we help you over time? I can wait. Nope, go ahead. Okay. I purchased the first set of the course. I'm just a little confused as to, are you still part of all the leads or how does it work? No, I sold my shares in All the Leads last year. We probate mastery out of that And we're an education and service company now, not a leads company. Okay. So what happens you, I hear you say, purchase a lead list and what, where does that come from? I still think the best probate leads provider for most people is all the leads. The reason is all the systems we built around the lead. The lead is a commodity. We can get those for free in a courthouse, but the list management and the marketing automation is their biggest. X-Factor still. So I'm still friends with those guys. Jim and Tim have been friends of mine a decade and a half, and I'm still friends with them. I'll see them this week. I just wanted to move in a different direction and, I believe that the biggest impact I can make is through education, not selling leads. So my team and I, we decided to move in the education route, but what we teach is consistent with what there, as far as I know, Bruce Hills, as their coach over there, Bruce is a personal friend of mine. I brought him into that company and he stuck around to handle the coaching. So it's going to be consistent. You're unlikely to hear some of the higher level things like the way we opened this conversation today were not really taught, probably not going to hear that over there. We tend to talk more about long-term wealth building and strategy here. We support them. If you look at the top of our website and you click on LEADS, it'll take you right to a video of me explaining what my connection with them still is, but I think they're one of the best lead providers in the country. The limitation they have is they only go in, in most cases, they're only gathering leads every 30 days where some can give you daily delivery, but I think they have the best phone numbers and the best system in then the business. Okay. So finish the course and then if I'd like to purchase the probate leads and go there for that. Yep. Okay. I think we've got, if you look on the blog on probatemastery.com under the blog or Katt can drop a link here in the show notes we've kind of summarized, we've taken the top five probate lead companies in the country, and just given you a really transparent look of the good and the bad of all of them. There's other, obviously other providers you can choose from, but unless you have, an internal admin like a team and you're, you've got a very system forward mind, it's difficult to handle the list management, knowing which ones to mail, which ones not to mail when you're three and four and five months in. And that's the beauty of the, all the leads CRM is it keeps track of all that for you. Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. All right, guys, there are lots of questions in chat and we're 12 over. I'm sorry. I'm not going to get a chance to read through all of these, but I do appreciate the conversation. Sorry. If I got long-winded on some of these things, I'm pretty passionate about making sure people are prepared for what I believe is coming. And also making sure that you guys build sustainable, lasting businesses, where you can put that on autopilot one of these days and be standing here when I retire, I'm looking for my replacements. So anyways, I appreciate y'all being part of this community. Always having good questions and engagement and uh, we'll see you next week. Thanks so much.