In this episode, Certified Probate Experts share stories of successful real estate transactions, career development, and helping clients find better solutions. Chad Corbett and the group mastermind solutions for different real estate situations, such as keeping senior citizens in their homes during end-of-life, helping stand up for clients who are at risk of losing equity, and networking with fiduciaries to collaborate on probate marketing together.
You can become part of the community, too, when you take the Probate Mastery course at ProbateMastery.com!
Show notes on probatemastery.com: https://probatemastery.com/next-level-opportunities-through-probate-real-estate-podcast-60
You can also catch this episode as a video (Zoom) on YouTube: https://youtu.be/RF-mRJLuS2g
Timestamps (YouTube Links)
0:00 Announcing probate real estate coaching with Bill Gross (Probate Coaching)
6:18 How to help a senior stay in their home during end of life (Senior Living)
12:00 An immersive course for attorney networking (Probate Attorneys)
18:46 Nina, Certified Probate Expert, enters the estate planning space! (Career Development)
31:10 How to invite probate and divorce attorneys to collaborate over Zoom (Attorney Marketing)
55:25 Winston's win! Postponing trustee sale for property with reverse mortgage (Success Stories)
Learn more at www.probatemastery.com
All right. Welcome everybody to the weekly probate mastery group coaching call and the estate professionals mastermind podcast. This call has gotten progressively more exciting over the last couple of weeks though. I'm like, what are we going to hear today? We've had some really great calls lately. It's really great to see, the community that we worked so hard to build, take on a life of its own and see you guys coach each other. So thank you for showing up, week after week contributing and, and rather than tide lifts all boats. So I, I don't take the calls here lightly. I really appreciate you guys appreciating and helping us. Some, one thing I want to talk about this week before we jump into to help everybody else, something I've been hoping to deliver on. And just, I can't, I've been trying to get myself cloned, but it's kind of expensive and risky, but I the closest I can get to that is really, the people who have put their trust in me to follow my leadership, to build careers and niches. You guys know him very well. Bill gross is one of those. So he's been a huge advocate for me. I got an ambassador for probate mastery and it's been, I'm really proud to have watched his journey and see how this can unfold for, for one person in particular. Hundreds and hundreds of these, these stories over, over my career in doing this. But bill was one that like, he didn't quit showing up. He continues to come, me country continues to contribute. He's created his own channels and he's putting his own value out there. And I'm happy to have him as part of our community. And there's so many people I saw Dave Glenn on here. I mean, Dave, you've been coming to these calls for years, too. I mean, a lot of these faces. So thank you guys all for that. One of the things we're announcing this week as of, oh, I don't know, about 30 seconds ago, we got it done. We are, we surveyed you guys last week. Everybody kind of gave everybody an opportunity to see what your appetite would be for more learning beyond this group coaching call. And the overwhelming majority of respondents said that the most valuable thing at this current time, like in the next 30 days to help them grow their business was just having access to a CPE coach at a $500 per use basis. So rather than, than building out subscription programs and taking longer to actually deliver on that, what we're offering right now is an opportunity to actually coach directly with bill on a, on a one-off basis. Now there's a couple of ways you can find the information about that. By the time this call. We'll have a probate coaches.com. If you're watching the recorded version of this, you can simply go to probate coaches.com as the fastest path for right now and probably for the next few minutes. If you go to probate mastery.com, I've added coaches or coaching to the menu. So you'll see course to coaching, yada, yada, but you can go there and actually get signed up. If, if the one-off coaching is not what you really want. I know we did have respondents who said, we were ready for one-on-one coaching. We're ready for a higher level group coaching for more attentive. If there's, if you'd like, please if there's some sort of support and coaching that you would like to get, we've added a form at the bottom of that page. So you can tell us what we need to create. I'm not really wanting to produce a product and try to jam it down your throat with excessive marketing. It's more, you guys help us shape the business model to be the most valuable that can be for you. So if that, if that is not the kind of coaching you're looking for right now, but you do want some more accountability and, and to, to get there faster please take a moment to fill out that form so we know what we can do to meet your needs. And before we fully kick off bill, I'll kick it to you. If there's anything you'd like to say. I think everybody here pretty much knows you, but is in a few days, the rest of the world will probably see this too. So a certified probate expert and probate mastery coach, bill ropes. Well, thanks, Chad. Look, it's it's been. Honor from the beginning to work with you and it's been the ride of a lifetime at the end of my career, in a sense I was 60 years old when I realized three years ago and have a business that's really just changed my life. As a result of focusing on probate, Olin and writing a plan on it. And, I talked about this for awhile. And the thing that you and I both agreed on was, we weren't in the coaching to take money from people we're in coaching to, to help people move forward that need help and try to find a way to monetize the time. I mean, I, I make a lot of money as a real estate broker. I can't afford to do it for free all day. And also, I think when people pay for something that gets their attention, they commit to it. And absolutely so sorry to interrupt, but I just, I don't, you and I probably talked about this. I have offered, I've coached at $2,000 an hour and that's what people come to me and offer not to brag, but I have like about the price. I have offered that to people for free, who I thought had a lot of potential and they almost always wasted most recently when I was in Jacksonville, Florida a couple of weeks ago. And it's, it's something that if it's frustrating, cause even when you want to give it away, it's, it's not taken seriously without that. I will say that for what we're offering and there's a hell of a lot more value than what we're asking for, but yeah, I frankly I've been doing for free, cause I just never got around to setting up anything to charge for it. And it would kind of frustrated the people didn't take advantage of. And I do feel that that people put some effort into it will evaluate, but most importantly, I'm a practitioner. I do this every day. I literally hung up as a little bit late because I was interviewing an attorney that I met a probate court as part of my marketing from my listing business to get referrals from. So I'm not just doing this as a coach. I am a first, a primarily practitioner. I'm doing the coaching, to be honest, it sounds like it would be fun to do. And it's an excuse to work with Chad. I really don't have the ambition to be a coach. I've done it. It I I'm, I'm not against it, but I really love helping people build their businesses. And so if I can help you, I'm here for you. And that's why I come on these calls. That's why I do my own calls is to help agents. And I'm glad to do that whenever possible. Yeah. Thank you, bill. All right. Does anybody have any questions or anything we can coach you on right now? And then any, any wins you'd like to share? We've got a lot of interesting topics. Yes. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Yeah. I haven't been on here in a while. I don't know if you remember, you gave me some advice about, I asked you about taking over my mom's property and it's paid off. Or getting my mom's get my brother's name under ESSA. We can start investing in it and using it to invest in you suggested that we buy it from them. I pitched this idea to them. They didn't like, they're just too scared to do anything right now. I can understand my mom she's elderly. She came from Mexico and living in a shack, so we're living that right now. It's just like paradise to her, it's not the best, but the properties around our, our, our area are, the areas appreciating to say the least. Finally got to talking to my brother again and he's kind of like, wanting to do it, but he's saying that he probably, we couldn't get alone because he just got like, he just got a new truck. And so he, I know he's been, he's got a good job and he's one of those people that takes care of his credit. And I was wondering if I was thinking to myself or our heard also do you know that there's lenders out there that they, they'll see that, maybe like little blemish, but they'll look at the deal and that, bill. I mean, and we've got an audio loop, Alex, if you could turn your volume down there, I think it, it clearly turned mine down. Yeah. It seemed to be coming from your, was that okay? I don't hear it anymore. I think we're good. I think it's been six or eight months since we had this conversation. So what is your mother's living in the property? Is that still the case? Yes. There are two townhouses together. I suggest that she move in with one of you, you or the other, your brother, you are your brother, because that was a possibility. My brother lived with her now because my stepdad, his dad passed away. COVID so he has, so my brother's living there now. I live in the same complex with the, with the. Okay. And we just got the other side, rented out to other family members for a 1200 a month. What was I suggesting you guys buy it and hold it as a long-term buy and hold property? I don't remember that. I just remember you saying this to buy it from my mom. Yeah. And that was because she needed money and you and your brother wanted to gain that appreciation if I remember, right. Yeah. Okay. So the fact that she's living in it makes the financing strategy more difficult. If, if she fixed that she has fixed income she's on social security or can she afford to pay rent? No plus plus other bills? No. Okay. The type of loan that I would suggest if she could afford to pay rent just for a teachable moment would be a DSCR loan on the commercial side of a community bank, or with, even with a private lender on a DSCR is a debt service coverage ratio. So that's basically an asset based loan, not a credit-based loan. What they're going to ask for is two months of rent receipts, or a P and L for two months that doesn't really apply in your situation. So there are other lenders out there, believe it or not like no doc and low doc loans are back. They're not really that easy to find, but the person I would point you to Alex is oh, X Dean and I did a podcast on his platform. Three weeks ago or so, and Kat will probably drop a link here very quickly before I can even finish talking, but a B a U E C K S T E I N Bo X Dean. And he kind of special there. She's already got it. She's specialized in if Bo can't Bosun in a mastermind with me, like he's, he, I, I will, I will vouch for him as a professional. If he can't help you, he will point you to the person that can, so I would recommend connect with Bo and talk this, talk through the situation with him and say, what do you recommend? He's a pro he can connect you with private loans. He can connect you a DSCR loans that are pre. But what the, what any lender is going to be looking at is, who's making the payments and, without an income stream from the property, what's our risk. So if you have, especially, if you, if you expect, windfalls in the future, if you've got things that, you know, that, that, you know are going to increase your income, or if you have other assets that you can cross collateralized, private lenders will sometimes make special loans for you, based on the de-risking of the loan. Beau will be able to walk you through that and kind of say, here's, here's the best options and the people I can introduce you to if I can't do it myself. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Is there another way I can get out? I'm sorry if y'all heard some static, they're always trying to see the go to the link that cat posted it over there and it started getting staticky. Is there another way I can see the link later? Find the link later. Yeah. Whenever this was published, it'll be in the show notes, but right now you can just, if you go to mute and then just jump over to chat and you should be able to grab. All right. Thank you so much, Chad. Thank you so much. And thank you, Kate. Kate, Kate says she's. She's good. Okay. Next we have the Reese said I'm new to the group, the race, or you hope I'm not butchering your name. You have a microphone. Where are you? Hello? Yes, you're saying my name correctly. I think you're the first Doretha I've met. Do you know, have you ever met any other Teresa's? I actually have met one. Yup. Okay. So you're new to the group. Welcome. Thank you. Is this your first. My question is I bought a bunch of probate leads and I have the PR and the deceased name and the attorney's name. And I'd love to approach the attorneys to make friends with, but I really don't know how to go about it. I mean, I'm a former advertising person, so I'm like, oh, I need like a kit, selling myself or, what is, what do people do to do that? Oh, you're shaking your head laughing. I don't need a PR public relations script. It's called eye contact. That's how we do this. So have you finished the probate mastery course? Have you gotten all the way through. I did, I need to, I definitely need to refresh myself, but yes, I did take it. Yep. So the first place, I will point you at the end of session two, where we talk about building your referral network. And I share a couple of tactics in there. What's happening literally, as, as we speak here today, we're adding some attorney, four hours of attorney interviews are being added to the end of session two. I don't think any of those attorneys are here today. We've got two attorneys out of Florida, one out of California and one out of Arizona. And we have four hours of the question you just asked me asking those, that, those, that question directly to attorneys The inspiration that I've gotten over the last week or so, and putting that together and trying to do a better job at getting that information to you guys has led to me right before I jumped on this call. The reason I was late is I'm actually creating a brand new course, a supplement or. Course to probate mastery called arm or an attorney referrals now, and this is going to be probably a two to four hour course. That goes much, much deeper than what you'll find in session two, where we actually will we'll show you the numbers of the we'll show you the inside of that industry. So you can understand exactly what struggles they have in their business, and know how to create a value proposition based on learning the struggles of scaling a small farm with tight anti solicitation restrictions. I hope in the next. I would love to say this week, but we have a very aggressive schedule. And the next two weeks I will deliver a course to you guys. CPS, like the people in this call we'll have early, like first access to it at an introductory price. And then it will go out as a public course after you guys have had access to it. The goal here is, is, as we move toward a bigger community and more of a mastermind format where we're bringing more and more attorneys into the conversation, So I can show them to you in videos now, but we're about to start co-producing courses with probate, with a state attorneys. So more importantly than that, then just, how do you get a referral? Like how do you actually team up and collaborate and help scale both businesses, and, and, and concerts. So that's the direction we're headed. We've, we've definitely seen that, that there's more and more of a desire to, to attract the business directly from attorneys. But we're also very interested in helping the attorneys, reach more consumers and scale their business the same way we've been teaching you to over the years. Perfect timing for the question. You've got some resources right now that, that you can look at and session two and then hopefully in the next week or so I will have a full blown, like a full blown course on exactly how to do this. And we'll have a co attorneys will be collaborating. That'll be the first time we've actually had attorneys teach with us in the course content. Excellent. Yep. Nina, I see your hand up. How are you? Sorry about that ahead and unmute I'm well, how are you? So I have a question that's kind of a piggyback on that, which is fiduciary. So while attorneys are great referral partners or fiduciaries, and if anyone here has been through the experience of nurturing a probate lead for six months to a year and only to find out, and let's say they're heirs who have a a competing petition. And so they they're teetering on litigation, but they finally don't go to litigation because the judge says, we'll decide on a fiduciary. And so now they've, they've decided on a fiduciary and that fiduciary is given either limited or full authority, but if they're given full authority, they have their network of agents they work with to list the property. So to this course, Chad, will you potentially be including anything that may like say how? Because I would think it's similar in terms of building a referral network of attorneys, it would be very similar in terms of fiduciaries. Would you be able to add anything to that or. Bring that into the fold, possibly I'm not a hundred percent settled on it yet. And they know what I want to do is actually teach the, the fiduciary track, but also the elder care attorney, the estate, the S the registered investment advisors, the senior moving company, the case manager, the care manager, the social worker, I would like to have modules for each and every one of those people who have, who have contact with the family and the end of life phase, or the, close to the death phase And in the interest of time and getting it out, I decided to just launch the, the attorney track right now, what is likely to happen as we, like, I might, I could probably produce an hour course on all those other ones. Maybe two hours what's likely to happen is there'll be bundled into, where if you bought one, you get a coupon for the other, or you can buy, if it's six months from now, you're listening to this. You can buy them all for one price. It's a heck of a lot lower than the collective. But in, I am, I'm challenging myself to not be such a perfectionist. I have so much in my head that I want to give to you guys, but I always wait for this moment where it all clicks together in this perfect vision before I start. And instead I'm trying something different this year, I'm going to try to just get stuff out of my head and in your hands and I'll figure out the pricing structure and how we, how we present it to you. That's yes, I do plan on including the fiduciary track. I'm just not exactly sure when it's being released and when, but for what I can say right now is 90% of the attorney course will translate to a fiduciary. Got it. Yeah, I would think so. And just to say that in three years, well, about three and a half years time, maybe I can participate in that course in some, some degree, because I am now in law school or being in a state attorney probation. Thank you. I didn't mean to make like jump in there with enough, but yeah, I got accepted in December and started my first class in. Spring. And I'm using a lot of my experience in probate in, in the in the course and the courses. And so it's wonderful that I, I already have so much knowledge from being in real estate cause no real estate contracts, you're dealing with legal stuff and then with the probate space. So it's been great and I'm looking really forward to it. And, and I, I continue on with my next elective this summer, and then I continue on full-time in the spring and the fall. So I will say you are going to kick ass in that profession. Like your level of technical, like the way your brain likes technical knowledge. Like you like to do the creative thinking, you understand all aspects of real estate, like for you to bring all of that into a probate attorney role as phenomenal. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Yeah. That's, that's, it's my clients who said to me, Nina, so much more you've helped us more than our attorneys have. You should be our attorney. I just have to tell them, I can't give you legal advice, but thanks for the vote. A lot of people, a lot of people said that to me, I would say John Fraker and the other attorneys I know are the reason I didn't do it. Well, it's interesting. It was actually a client of mine who I didn't get the deal. She was in litigation with her co-trustee brother and the judge ordered them to choose, sorry, the judge ordered them to choose between three different agents. Who've been in the business for over 30 years. So bill, if you were in the, in the pool, maybe you could have gotten it. But but with that said I developed a friendship with her and I followed up with her just to see how things went because I knew she was going to be inheriting a good amount and I knew she could potentially buy. So of course I'm gonna follow up with her and sure enough, we had the conversation and she's like telling me more about the litigation case. She's like, oh my God, I'm going to find a program for you. And she found the hybrid program, which is 70% online. And one weekend a month, we do residency at the Ventura campus. And here I am in law school. So wish me luck. That's amazing. All right. So there's your new challenge guys? Nina just raised the bar. Like now we have to go from CPE to J D apparently. Who else was going to law school? No, that's really awesome. The reason I haven't done it, I've had a lot of people pull me aside and ask her, like, why are you not an attorney? I'm like, I'm smarter than that. That's the half million dollars in debt and four years out of my life. But that's a smart ass answer. I really do mean it. I'm proud of you. It's, it's going to take a lot of hard work, but if anyone can do it, like you're the right person to be in that industry and selfish self selfishly. I'm very excited that to share in that journey with you, because. I can use your law license and your expertise to reach more attorneys who can approach this in a different way. That's one of my big goals is I've coached thousands of people and dealt with, with lots in my own business that are really grossly underserved by probate attorneys. And oftentimes those are the attorneys who didn't cut it and litigation, or couldn't make it in criminal defense. And there was a fallback position and they were just there because they had a revolving door referrals. And if you're a probate attorney listening to this, I'm probably not talking about you. It's the ones that hate to go to work. They drag themselves out of bed every morning. They sludge through the inefficiencies that their office, their existence has become, and they're cynical toward their clients in the world. And unfortunately that's a reality in this industry and between now and 2060, we're going to lose. About 98% of the baby boomer generation and their workload is going to get heavier and heavier and their standard of service is going to lower and lower. So now is the time for people like Nina to step up before this, as the nursing home calls at the silver tsunami of baby boomers, come through the death care space. Hospitals don't have a plan. Nursing homes, don't have a plan law firms sure as hell don't have a plan. So it's bringing efficiency and, and maintaining a high standard of service while bringing efficiency into the business as what's needed in the estate attorney industry. And we did discovery really quickly. I made a discovery, my first course, which is contemporary legal practice and it's collaborative law. It's actually been around since the nineties, but it, and it's based and family practice, family law around collaborating in the legal process of just in this dispute resolution and. If anything, I see more and more with these fighting errors. I've got a case right now where I thought it was going to be smooth. And then no, we had a competing petition. Collaborative law would be an excellent avenue through which to handle probate cases, particularly. Collaborating with investors and agents in the probate space. There you go. And that's what E my vision for EPM is just that to create the platform. And I'm super excited. You're done once you're done. Cause you can be a, you can be a great voice and not platform. Like we, we need to bridge the gap. Everybody, basically, everybody that I teach you guys to put on a vendor team needs to be on your full-time internal team. Like those people should be part of every deal. They should be kept in the loop. They should have opportunities to step up and provide value. Even if we're not specifically contacting them for clean-out services. If they have visibility into the overall probate picture, then they can say, Hey Nina, by the way, I read that brief for the Jones county. I know a guy that actually deals in antique, Mopar, automobiles. He can, he's coming to make an offer. So you never know who in your network might know somebody in their network that can, can support, your, your business. So that collaborative model that you, that you're talking about. That's my big vision for, for a estate professionals, mastermind. Like let's get all of our vendors into this conversation and let's, let's let you, like I said, a rising tide lifts all boats. So I love your vision on that Nina, and I'd love to help you, help you with it any way I can. Hey, real quick, Nina keep us posted. That's a very inspiration inspiring. I'm 46 years old. And thinking about going back to school in some people's posts, I will, Hey, I'm 53, but ain't nothing but enough of my friends. So there. Awesome. Right. Renee, are you going to want to up her? I mean, yes, you're, you're, you've decided to be a nuclear physicist. Oh my God, this the cat's out of the bag. I mean, how exciting would that be? Lord, I talked too much to be a nuclear physicist, but think of, of exists in the world. Congratulations, Nina. That's really exciting. I, we don't know each other, but I'm really proud of you. That's really inspiring. So very, very cool. I wanted to just ask if like the attorney that I'm working with right now, I mentioned her before. She's an excellent bedside manner. She's just chosen to be more like a one person show with an assistant, just take on cases as they come. I mean, is that somebody that I could make an introduction to as her style point, for your attorney list, if somebody needs like a softer touch or, more one-on-one, I mean, are you looking for a profile with attorneys that's directed at. No, that's basically what I'm looking for as any, any attorney who shares common values that we have here. Like when I try to explain this community to people, it usually starts with, it's a group of people who first of all, have empathy and compassion, but they're, they're designing a career based on purpose, more than based on profit. And I think I mean, if anyone disagrees with me, if you're just here because you like to make money and you don't give a about your clients' needs, it would surprise me. But I think it's safe to say that's the common thread that runs throughout all these faces you see is where a day. Type of professional. That's willing to slow down, be patient listen, before we speak and then just provide the perfect solution. And that's the kind of attorneys we're looking for too. I I'm, if you've watched the videos like John Fraker, Sylvana, Rilus, Al Nicoletti, like the, those four they're, they're literally they're living the attorney version of this culture. They're providing a unique service, a very high level of service in a unique way. And yes, we're all benevolent. We're here to make money, but money just shows up. If you provide a high enough level of service, the money shows up. So any attorney than any of you guys have that kind of fits that, that, that fits our values here. Please invite them to the community. Let's let's, let's include them in the conversation. W what does that actually look like? That logistics, when you say invite to the community, what's that? Well, right now you can invite them to the Facebook group estate professionals mastermind you. If it's someone you're like, Chad needs to talk to this person directly you can get, get you can get in touch with me and we'll get you a link to whatever is the appropriate link to my calendar. I've got. A dozen different calendar types, but you can email support or email McKenna, M C K E N N email@example.com and McKenna can get out a link. Whatever one makes the most sense, whether it's a podcast or content recording spot, or if it's just a 30 minute intro or an after hours I've been working until one in the morning, cause I'm so lit up right now. But so you're on the west coast. I mean, if, if sometimes maybe, you can schedule a call for nine Eastern and hit your, hit your guy after work. So that would be the best way, like to give them a path directly to me, but otherwise, I mean, invite as many attorneys that as long as they're not, as long as they meet the standard that I just kind of laid out, we'd love to have them be part of a state professionals mastermind. I'm not an attorney. I know a lot about probate. I, I, I can call myself an expert cause I've, I've put my 10,000 hours in. The I'm willing to be held accountable by attorneys. Like I want to make sure that I'm always sharing the most relevant and accurate information. So by having attorneys in our groups, in a real estate community, what a group that started as a real estate community, it just holds us all to a higher standard of professionalism. And we're all going to be better, right? Like we're going to learn from them. So for everybody listening, like if you have attorneys that you appreciate, that you think are a good fit culture wise, please invite them to estate professionals mastermind and tell them to contribute. Tell them to speak up. I know we've got, several dozen in there now, but we don't hear much from them because we're all in real estate. We never shut up and the attorneys are quietly and they're participating, but they're not quite as outspoken as us real estate people are. Okay. That, that answered the question. Perfect. So I'll do that first and foremost and. I'll probably I'll, I'll escalate it to mechanic. Cause I think this is, this is a good one and she just has a really good bedside manner, like just calm and all that good stuff. So I made a really good connection with, I mean, she's practically a neighbor of yours. She's not a practicing attorney. She has a law degree and she's now taking, she started taking probate mastery yesterday. I don't think I see her here, but she wants to contribute. She was in, in, in litigation law and she wants to become a probate specialist, but lend her legal, she, she can, she keeps her license current and she's a member of the bar. But she's interested in playing a bigger role in the community. I'm trying to collect as many valuable attorneys that, that want to contribute as possible. So if you've got one, please can I get them on my calendar? I'd love to meet them and thank you for that intro, Renee. Thank you. Okay. Appreciate it. Thank you everybody. Awesome. All right. So McKenna and cat have been working behind the scenes. Probate coaches.com is now active. So you can, you can get to our coaching page with that easy URL. Nana, you got a lot of love over here in the chat section. You might want to save this call. Terry, have you got a microphone? Shoot. Let's see if we can get you on muted. We can see you talking to now. We got ya. Hey success. Oh my God. You don't have to learn sign language. And I'm not a technophobe. I don't know what the heck is going on with this. But like I say, I've got a meeting at half past one with an attorney of one of my clients and what you guys just said made it seem like I'd ask him, are you willing to interview with me on a zoom, for going out to your folks and to my folks? Both. Absolutely. Especially if you have, do you have a website, Terry? So your probate business. Yes, I do. It's a state and trust in a state, a broker.com. That's a really good domain. Good, good work. People tried to buy that from me, actually. I'll bet. I mean, when you're ready to retire, that's probably a $10,000 domain. If you keep building it already on it. Yeah. I don't have one other question. I tried to get together with some professional administrators and they all seem to want to cut costs. If you can do it for 1%, we might be interested there. They seem totally involved with keeping the cost down instead of doing the job effectively, quickly, smoothly. And what's your response? I didn't have a response. I just wandered off. Can I give you one? Okay. You can not give you a response. Yes, please. Yeah. I'll even write this one down on a script. I scripts, but I'll give you this one. Well, I'm really glad you said that because I'm also an aspiring barber and I'd like to offer you a $3 haircut, but it's pretty funny. So what we're doing here is we're, we're getting them out of there, like they're in their default mode network. They've they've learned how to run. Not that professional, not that valuable people off and by using a smart ass, funny comment like that, we can actually short circuit their neurology and we can get them. Present and the conversation. So we get them off of this pattern. They've established a, a mental pattern that, that gets them a positive result. Now, if we challenge that, we're going to see one of two things. We're either going to see them open up and have a real conversation with us, or we're going to see their ego come up and actually present, present a defense. If that's the case, you're in the wrong damn room with the wrong damn person, just move on because they're in it for the wrong reason. If, if they're a professional fiduciary and their primary motivation is profit is not one. Eventually that relationship will bite you in the ass because downward price rates is always in the same way. You, if you step into that spot, the other guy gets kicked out. It's just a matter of time before someone comes in and takes your spot for a lower price. And you've wasted all that time, trying to build a real relationship based on value when all they gave a shit about was the price. So my advice to you is, is hold like, realize your worth. Call those people to the carpet using a technique, like I just showed you. And if they get defensive, say, you know what? I just heard all I needed to hear you have a great day and move on to the next one. And I'm not typically one to say, hope sales is a numbers game. With prospects, I'll always, I'll continue to try to be more generous with prospects, but when it's B to B, when you're dealing with professionals and everything, I just said stands for attorneys too. Like if they try to run you off short circuit, their nervous system with some abrupt or funny comment. And then if, if, if you come at them with something like that and they get defensive, you're probably in the wrong place. It's not the kind of person you want to associate with. So just move on and find someone who's more professional. But you know, I, I w what market are you in? South orange county, California. Okay. Have you, have you tried becoming an affiliate member of the fiduciary. No, I haven't. What I did do for a time before COVID is I went to the attorney meetings monthly. I became a member of the associate member of the bar or something like that. It was cheaper than dirt and here's a whole room full of attorneys. And unfortunately, I didn't really have a very good handle on how to handle it, but it's wow. What a valuable thing when they started back up again? I don't know if they have it. I'm about to check it. She got from New Jersey and probate and he did that in New Jersey, but he did it for divorce attorneys. So they would have a monthly meeting. He was making over a million dollars a year on divorce. Oh, wow. His marketing budget was $0. Like he, well, I mean, that's technically not true, whatever his dues were and whatever it costs him to buy them lunch once a once a month. It might've been maybe maybe two grand a month tops. But he was making over a million dollars a year and that was his only marketing effort. So definitely check and see if there's, if they're meeting in person and if they are figuring out a way to get there with some. The divorce people don't do it in orange county. Only the probate, no something, something you met that may not have occurred to you. I mean, you paid your dues and you can use this idea individually if you would like, but you've got other people, at least four that I can see on this call that are in orange county that are of an abundance mindset, not a competitive mindset. One of them is on the phone right now, but I mean, you've got, Renee bill gross Nina of, of people on, on nowhere. Everybody has, you guys are Winston. You guys are all in the same general area. You should consider actually getting together and figuring out how to approach this with even more value as a group, maybe you all go to the attorneys, to the, the, the, to these meetings and, offer yourselves up as a panel, or I don't know you guys, but it's, you might want to consider meeting up and actually collaborating on this effort. And then you just need one thing. I will say I've said this to every real estate professional ever since my very first team in real estate. You, you can't, you can't practice full disclosure enough and you can't talk about expectations enough if you're going to collaborate with another sales person. So if you take my advice and you guys decided to do something like this, Early speak often about expectations. So here's what I expect. What do you, what do each of you expect? Give everybody a voice. Don't give anyone a chance to say, oh, nothing. I'm just here to see what it's like, like make sure everybody discusses. Here's what we expect. Here's what could go wrong. Here's what we're committed to doing. If that starts to happen. And then you can have a healthy partnership, a healthy collaboration. If you don't do those things, you're likely to get a bunch of type a salespeople who see each other as competitors and blow apart that relationship. So if it's something you want to do, I think it can be hugely beneficial to everybody, but you have to be, just be deliberate and how you put it together. So it doesn't end up blowing up friendships and business relationships. Thanks. Thanks a million. I appreciate it. Okay, who's up next? How can we help? All right. lynette has a hand up and high-networth specialists from Denver, what are you dragging in this time?$8 million off market listing. I hope. I was in the outer banks. Not, not very far from you. I think I drove by you, Chad and I waved it, did that, but there there's some vacation property opportunity out there. I'm not sure how to tether it, but my sister and I bought a oceanfront and It's been a long road for me and my family and to be on the ocean with quite an indication of where we'd come from. So it was a beautiful break and I did a little social media blast and the flood of people interested in things like that. I think, I don't think probate estate and trust is separate. I think it all coordinates and it allows us to bring value and, and, and generational wealth. And there's certainly some of that there. When you see like the 24 bedroom houses, that's pretty apparent that's it with the elevators and it's just, it's just an extraordinary place. I mean, I'm, I'm a little wonky about the sand I'm like, is it going to fall off, like, is there anything under there that you wonder really like Florida seems solid compared as you go visit the wild horses on the beach? Oh, we, we didn't this time, but we have, yeah, like there, it's just really incredible. My, my, my niece loves them. So my question is it's a little granular, but do we have in our coffer, do we have anyone that is really an attorney in particular really great at foreclosures and reverse foreclosures in particular? Do we have that? And then the second one was so because, and I know where that question's coming from, it's coming from three weeks ago and because of the caveat or the condition that you applied to that when we had that discussion, You need to find the Colorado attorney. So David Gwinn if you have your microphone, if you're able to speak right now, Dave would be the one I would point you to, because he's just up the road from you. You got it. Are you guys aren't necessarily competing, but he has been there for a long time and been an investor. So I'm betting, he knows a really good real estate attorney. So I've, I've got three that I've spoken to. And when I bring well, that's on the probate and estate side, right? So it's an important part on the foreclosure side. As soon as I mentioned foreclosure, I get this whole little experience from them that, it's like the attorneys shut down. I can give you some direction. Thank you. If you'd like, I'm going to caveat this, that, now that I've announced my moves, but am not an attorney y'all so just know that I can't provide legal advice and I'm not. I'm actually coming from knowing foreclosures as a short sale foreclosure specialist designation from the national realtors, And having been through a foreclosure and literally the last four clients I've been nurturing and working with all have HECM reverse mortgages. And I have a strategy for how to address this. Now there's actually a local attorney in orange county here who really, he does probates and he, he has a whole thing on and he uses that actually to get a lot of business in probate because of the urgency. But just tell me your specific issue. I might be able to point you with some ideas and strategy to address it. So the specific issue from three weeks ago, I've got that contained, so that's the good news. No, no, they they, they have time, so we're, we're in front of the probate court. Gotcha. It's it's, it's the ones that, so Colorado has that 15 day notice to cure. And I haven't gotten any answer from an attorney that can say if there's, if they can Trump the injunction or not. I mean, I, in, in my opinion, and I'm not an attorney and I don't have any basis for this, but you could Trump anything. I mean, you get some, you get somebody to sign off on it. I think you're, am I wrong? So the reason I'm asking, so there was a specific instance which is handled, but I'm looking for a more scalable solution. I want somebody that I can call and they know how to engage systemically, engaged, and to quickly engage with the people that are in a tailspin. So what is the, what is the, what is right now, the urgency for this, that, that the, your clients, Nina, what I'm seeing is I'm seeing a bunch of reverse foreclosures with people that haven't filed probate yet. And they're on this fast track to, to auction with the family estate effectively. With nobody's signed as a PR. And, I don't know if there's a will or not. Well, there's no visibility to this. What I'm looking for is when I'm coming in, I want to come in with some ammunition, it's, me and me with no, like. Okay, but I mean, I don't think you were here, but we, we challenged her to actually pursue this as a niche, within a niche, because she has access to, she, she tends to have a really easy time connecting with high net worth individuals. And she's been able to find quite a few of these. So if she could find the right attorney who would stick with her and make sure when she, when he sees her cell phone, he picks up the he, or she picks up the phone. Then she could trust this as like, as a, as a core offering and in her business, that's where we left off. We'll get rain for an attorney and provide just an exceptional level of service for people there just don't know what to do. So I have an attorney here who is very good, that has dealt with preempting, the foreclosure HECM and foreclosure issue. And by the way, HECM I'm home equity, conversion mortgage. I know that. At a V a podcast with somebody, a video of someone who does these. So just wanted to clarify if anyone didn't know the acronym. So with HECM he, he basically, he knows how to deal with them. He knows the urgency, and he does a solution that we in fact have done here, which Chad has talked about, which is bringing a private lender or a inheritance lender to the table to do a hard money loan for a high rate, but for a one-year term, in order to get the property sold interest only as long as the, of course there's enough equity. I don't always recommend that if there's another avenue, but that usually ends up having to be at I'm actually about to present to a group of women investors, how they can be probate advance investors, or do private lending on probates in this situation. In order to help those clients who don't have enough equity, who only have so much equity so that they can still get out, avoid it. But with that said, one avenue was to connect with an attorney in another market. Who's had the experience, I'll send you David's information and then ask him, Hey, this is my situation. Would you be willing to conference in with an attorney or with other attorneys at an event I'm holding around avoiding foreclosure in probate, due to a home equity conversion mortgage in default, and then hold that zoom meeting with all of those attorneys in Colorado, as well as David, where he can help them understand how they can solve the problem for these crimes. And now these attorneys have been given a new avenue of generating business where you then tail end on that event and say, so this is what I can help you with bringing clients to you, to serve my clients so that we can have these families avoid losing their legacy. And now they'll be equipped to go. All they have to do is go into the on law or any of these legal resources of databases, of legal, policies to look up, how to handle a reverse mortgage or a foreclosure, situations, but they could easily find the solutions just by getting some guidance from David to implement into their practice. So that's the first thing to try to bring them into your sphere as. Referral partners. So all of that, so thank you, Nina. It's brilliant. And what I'm seeing is there there's this gap, meaning that the families aren't even probated yet, like exactly. So has he seen that? Is it, this cannot be a state phenomenon? No, it isn't. It isn't. And in fact, I think that's why you end up seeing we'll we'll we'll, I'll say I've seen probates where all of a sudden they have their hearing, but then they've got a foreclosure notice that shows on title. That's like, wait a minute. When did this happen? Well it's because what happens with the head them? The date of death is the date of death. Because by heck I'm standards, but other requirements, if it's no longer their primary residence while they died, so it's not then it has to go into default that they put it, but you're given an automatic six month extension to cure the default. Well, six months, isn't really a whole lot of time in probate. We know because of the courts. So then they are given an option for two. And this is here. I know this is how I understand it. Okay. So if it, if you found other news and let me know, but then they can do two, three month extensions in, in writing to request an extension for three months. And because of COVID, they're currently can go up to 18 months. If this, if they have a COVID can do. COVID circumstance. And really right now with COVID you raise your hand, tenants are getting away with all kinds of crap against slammed. Where are you sure that last part is not California specific? No, I'm pretty sure it's not because it's under HUD. If you go to HUD's website, this is where the information is listed there on HUD's website. And they're applying the COVID rules to heck gums. Even if you don't have COVID, you can get the two that the additional extensions, but what you need to do, Linda is you need to reach these people. Even if it's in writing or you may be in partnership with an attorney. To say, Hey, I know you haven't filed yet, but if you were not aware of it, you don't have a whole lot of time because of the reverse mortgage. You either need to get it refinanced out or you need to get the property sold to save the property, or you're going to lose it. And, I can offer you a free consultation. That's the urgency is you need to let these people know that they just don't have a lot of time. And the other challenge is that like with my current client, she filed the petition. She's half sister. There's a half-brother the half-brother grew up in the house. He's irrational at this point thinking he can keep it. He doesn't have the finances to even qualify for a loan is over 50% LTV. So there's actually three years. There's no way he can buy them out. He wouldn't qualify for a loan, but he wants to. So he decides to file a co a competing petition immediately that causes the first petitions hearing date was April 15. They pushed it to the May 10th date on his petition because he was a competing filer. So that's what happens when there's a competing petition. It pushes the date. Then you go into court and the judge says, Hey you to figure it out. There's a continuance 90 days. Now, before you can go ahead and get your PR. So now you're using a four months worth of time, had them timeline to go into default. How does the agent of service who's providing all these solutions? No, I do no upfront cost renovations. I PR I help them with no relocating the tenants I've been up and down all the landlord tenant eviction. We're trying to here in California to find the loopholes. There are only a few, literally two, but you know, it's finding the solutions and then figuring out the timeline and strategy to get this property renovated and sold for the highest. We don't have the time to be losing four months due to competing petitions and continuances because the judge is saying, figure it out. You're the family members. So that's where you have to show up with all of that ammunition of knowing the problems to say, this is serious. It's free. You don't, there's no obligation. I'm trying to help you save your legacy. Let's have a conversation and then bring that those attorneys you're trained to the table. D does the court have the ability to sign a sign in a minute administrator while, while they're there doing what they're doing? Just as a from a fiduciary standpoint for the, for the estate in general? I, I mean, I'm making this up. No, I would say no. It depends on your state. Most likely. No, because it has to be appointed by the judge by potential. And in this case, you, and it's not uncommon for competing errors or competing petitioners for the judge where they come back at that continuance hearing that's 90 days later, they don't have a decision they're still fighting. And the judge says, okay, find a fiduciary. Here's another continuance. And then they say, okay, now the fiduciary is going to be, the petitioner are going to be awarded the PR. But ultimately whoever petitions they need to get the really, what you can do is say, Hey, if you've got two heirs who are competing and they haven't decided who's going to be the PR, say it doesn't really matter. Who is you? Both are entitled. What matters is you don't lose your leg. Just get the petition filed and let's get it important. As soon as you've got it filed, you can go to the heck them and say, Hey, get an extension. We're in probate. Well, in your case, like if, if you're just looking for a way to initiate probate, so you can do that. The thing I know where the root of your question is, if you can get somebody from the family to petition, then just then have them show up at the hearing and say, I'm sorry, your honor. I've I need to, to abdicate my role. I'm not cut out for this. Could you please appoint a fiduciary or a public administrator that is a workaround for you so that, that can short circuit that and get the judge to say, okay, we, the court has appointed a public administrator. This probate is now in process and you've got it. You've got the ball rolling. So I, okay. So I want to, I want to go back with with the one specifically that we, we have enough time we're going to get in front of everybody. We need, again, in the event, we don't have a family member that has the right to transfer property in. We have the money to secure the property. How is the money secured? If we don't know who the signature is? Like, how, how do we get that done? It's just not, is it, I mean, you just, just gifted the pay. Yeah. But this is, I mean, you're, you're in a private equity hub hub, right. There are a lot of guys in Denver and downtown that came from, from the street or from Chicago that are there looking for risky deals with big gains. So like, that's, that's a private equity venture capital space. You can network in those, in those high net worth financial services circles, and probably find someone, someone that will step in the right, those types of loans with that kind of risk. If you have enough volume I would first before you reinvent the wheel, make sure you reach out to like probate cash. They, they, they, their estate advances are unsecured. So they're taking 100% risks when they do that. Now they obviously have underwriting standards to, to, to weigh that out probate cash alludes to probate. Yeah. But I just talked to will one of the posts, but behind the scenes, I mean, there it's a private equity firm. Got it, got it, got it. I get it. And I'll just say that I just talked to, will to get a really great advance for my client and that he did say, yeah, depending upon the circumstances, we can do a loan on to get out of a heck to get out of default. Well, we don't talk about on, on the interviews with Probate Cash that like, they have other divisions that serve other unique situations, but at the top, like the parent company that that's sitting above, those brands, it's a private equity firm. So they're not afraid of risk. And they're, if, if the probate cash team can't help you, they should move you to a part in the farm that actually where your loan would apply to their underwriting standards. But that's where I would start. Like, you've got a raw Sean and, and like mark they gave their cell phone numbers in the, the, the interview, the last interview we did on the one before that you can start with those guys and see if they would step up. I'm betting. They will. Okay. I haven't dipped my toe in that circle. No, I take that back. I have friends in the circle. I haven't talked about account. So I love that you're three weeks later here, you are still working on that. Don't, don't let off the gas, like either, either get it in place or say it didn't work. And here's why either way come back and let us know. We're past the top of the hour. Winston, I don't want to leave you hanging. How can we help you? Or how can you help someone else you have your hand up? Yeah, actually I just wanted to share a story, Chad. It just happened to me somewhat more, but some different variables here, just in the last couple of weeks, I had an attorney refer a case to me that was dealing with the reverse mortgage. It was well into default. In fact, they had a trustee sale in just about two weeks time from the time it was referred to me and how I was able to get it postponed is I just did it. The old fashioned. I picked up the phone, call the lender. I talked to everybody across the country, including the Philippines and back again, and noted all my notes. Just introducing myself to other who I am, my background, what I'm getting ready to do. I wanted to establish the, the, the good faith that was necessary to postpone the sale. I told him exactly what I was going to do with the buyer. We had a buyer, we wrote the deal. I got it signed up. We did have it executor in place. It was a cash deal that we close in time, okay. To beat the foreclosure sale. But there was still a little, little thing into being worked out. I sent them my copy of the contract. I sent them a copy of the cash proof of funds, a copy of the deposit from escrow, the escrow instructions. Each time I would send them some. I would just pick up the phone again and play the request, an extension, a postponement. After all that came together a little time, went by and other request went in and they granted me the postponement. So now we're going to be able to successfully close the sale and everybody's going to be happy. Talk a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of good faith, then evidence defeats, disbelief, and then true in this case. That's awesome, man. So that's service and that's tenacity, right? That's awesome. Once and why to step up and protect your clients. That's that's really fantastic. What a great way to end the call. Like I said, in the beginning, guys, I can't wait to come to these calls lately. Like we get into such interesting conversations and like, Lynette that's going to be a nurse or a Renee is going to be a neuroscientist. Now Nina is going to law school. Bill gross is a probate coach. This is fun. Right. All right guys, listen, thanks so much for being here. I do have to run on to the next one, but we'll see you next week. Have a great day.