Navigating New Paths With Mike the Cop: Career Moves After Law Enforcement

Want to know the real challenges of transitioning out of a police career? Join us as we engage in an enlightening conversation with Mike the Cop, a former police officer turned social media personality. We tackle the intricacies of moving from law enforcement to new professional horizons, exploring the financial adjustments and personal development that come with such a significant shift. Mike shares his insights on the controversial Gracies' "SafeRap" system in the jujitsu community, critiquing its marketing while acknowledging its practical benefits for police work. This episode is a treasure trove of philosophical reflections and practical advice for anyone at the crossroads of law enforcement and personal growth.

Ever wondered why some police training programs seem disconnected from the gritty realities officers face on the streets? We shed light on the misleading marketing strategies that sanitize these techniques, making unrealistic promises about non-violent resolutions to the public and political entities. Our discussion underscores the importance of framing training systems within reasonable officer standards, emphasizing the necessity of force techniques in real-life confrontations. Join us as we navigate this disconnect and the consequences it has on public perception and officer preparedness.

How can law enforcement professionals leverage their skills in new careers? Hear the inspiring story of Chris Fisher, a former police officer who transitioned into real estate after an unexpected injury. We discuss the essential steps for planning life beyond policing and the importance of maintaining physical readiness. Mike the Cop also shares his journey from a varied childhood to becoming a police officer in Metro Detroit, and how social media became a pivotal part of his career transition. This episode is packed with stories of resilience, adaptability, and the ongoing evolution of the law enforcement profession.

Chapters

• 0:00 Safe Wrap System in Law Enforcement
• 9:32 Use of Force in Law Enforcement
• 16:01 Marketing Strategies and Training Costs
• 27:59 Navigating Change and Transformation
• 35:03 Career Transition and Social Media Brand
• 45:46 Social Media and Law Enforcement
• 56:45 Law Enforcement to Real Estate Transition
• 1:01:48 Navigating Identity and Career Transitions
• 1:10:58 Career Transitions Beyond Law Enforcement
• 1:17:41 Training and Accountability in Law Enforcement
• 1:31:04 Social Media Contact Information Exchange

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

All right, what was that? Al? I'm going to go very, very out of place here. Okay, cool, all right, all right, all right, and we are. We are live. We are live. We are live on the Heroic Nation podcast. Slash live training in the Heroic Industries School Group. Slash live training in the Heroic Industries School Group.

Speaker 1: 0:28

And before I get into it, I just want to say that this is going to be another one of the greatest, probably the greatest, the greatest podcast ever ever recorded. I know I say that every time and most of the time I am wrong, but this time I'm not. So just rest assured, this will be the greatest podcast of all time, and most of the time I am wrong, but this time I'm not. So just rest assured, this will be the greatest podcast of all time. Talk to Mike the cop. Mike, formerly the cop no, he's known as Mike the cop on Instagram and all social media handles, and he had no idea. He had no idea that he probably still doesn't know that he was on the greatest podcast to ever be recorded and he's been on a lot of podcasts and he had no idea. So, like Mike, if you listen to this, like hey, just know, like you were just on the greatest podcast Congratulations, but it was a really good conversation. It was fun talking about you know, like cop stuff, non-cop stuff, talking about you know like cop stuff, non-cop stuff, stuff that cops need to know and understand and we don't like we don't know how to transition out of being a cop. We don't know how to develop certain phases of different parts of us and our personalities and our lives to be more well-rounded, to, like you know, adjust things financially in order to get out of a uniform and hopefully do some different things. So that's very critical skill. You know, something that we discussed probably should be taught in the academy and it isn't okay, is not um, but it should be. So that's something we discussed at length as well. As you know a multitude of other things which, if you listen like you know, like you get kind of philosophical with a lot of things and uh and bounce around a decent amount. So good conversation. It was fun. Glad to have him on like he's. He's a pretty big dude in the social media space, so it was really cool to get some of his time. I'm very grateful for that. Honestly, it was a great show. Probably the greatest there we go is the fight with social media is a little bit of an uproar If you're in the jujitsu community.

Speaker 1: 2:53

The Gracies have developed a system, a system to end all systems, apparently the safe wrap, the safe wrap system. So the safe wrap system is twisting arm control. It is a gift wrap based on the gift wrap series in jujitsu and, yeah, that's what it is, okay. So they have retitled a move, a jujitsu move or series and called it the SafeRap system and are promoting and pitching this to law enforcement agencies and selling it as the system that will be the safest and will eliminate needs for striking and use of force and punching people. And the marketing is very, very, probably very emotionally reactive for the public, for politicians looking to not deal with this, not deal with police having to fight people, and then for police maybe themselves.

Speaker 1: 4:03

Here's my issues with it. All right, are not the tactics. The gift wrap series is a great series. Twisting arm control is fantastic, especially for cops. It is very effective. It is one of the most effective things that I've used. Right, and if you don't know what that is like, you know just YouTube, gift wrap series, jujitsu or BJJ, and you're going to come up with a whole multitude of things, maybe even the safe wrap system, maybe not. So that's not my issue. My issue is not the tactic. Like, the tactic should be taught. The tactic should be known. It is a very, very good control place to hang out to do stuff.

Speaker 1: 4:41

It's not a final cuffing position, that's for damn sure. You can't cuff people with their arms crossed in front of their face. You have to get them behind their backs. So you're still going to have to transition into, like from point A to point B. Really, this is not even point A. It's like how did you even get there to begin with? Because herps don't just lay down on their side and give you their hand to put across their face. Like, nobody does that, you know, even like elementary school kids that fight, like, if that even still happens, they don't like, they don't put their hands in front of their face and let you just, like, rip their hand across their neck, you know. And like this, like little pretzel, twisted pretzel move. So how did you get there? Like that's a whole, that's a whole conversation by itself. Because, like, if somebody is, is intent on not getting arrested to the point where you have to use this, this move, then you're going to have to put them in a place to be able to use that. And that typically comes with some some striking. That typically comes with like a trip or a throw or a strike or something to that effect. That's, that's very violent, you know. And then the move itself is also violent, like you can't pull somebody's arm across their face and make it a safe position for them.

Speaker 1: 5:57

So, moving into my issues with it, it's the marketing. Right, it is the marketing, not the tactic. The tactic is good, right, but the marketing like, just the name itself, the safe rap system. Like you are in a fight okay, a fight like, and especially a fight in a street, wearing tactical gear and weapons. This is not a safe place. Okay, this is not a safe place. I think we can all agree that this is not safe and to pitch something as safe is pure bullshit. Like you can't pitch that as safe. You are doing something that is unsafe, right, doing jujitsu in a gym is kind of unsafe, but it is.

Speaker 1: 6:44

There are all sorts of measures in place mats, uniforms, geese, like that kind of stuff. People that are not on drugs for the most part, maybe some weed, but people that are not there with ill intent for the most part, other than maybe a psychopath every now and again that wants to go and just smash people. But even that is confined by terms of a sport. Confined by terms of a sport. Yes, I said that twice. All right, you can't take that and put it on the street and call it safe because it's safe. Even in the UFC, right, even in the UFC, where there are weight classes and rules and you can't break people's fingers, you can't gouge eyes, you can't even knee a downed opponent Okay, those are rules. Those rules do not exist in an alley, like they don't. So, like you know, in that alley, with said person on meth, who does not want to go to jail because he knows he's got a warrant that's going to put him away for six months or more, let's say, all right, even something like that, right, there aren't any rules. And as much as we try to put rules on these and rule sets like that dude doesn't have any rules sets like that dude doesn't have any rules, he has zero rules whatsoever.

Speaker 1: 8:08

And you want to put this safe rap system in effect and tell everyone that it's safe and that it's like the solution to all use of force complaints and use of force, injuries, and we don't have to beat up like the perpetrators who are really victims, like they're playing into this whole notion of nonviolent police work and that's such a lie. It is such a lie because the moves themselves, the jujitsu itself, is a violent sport. Wrestling is a violent sport. Football is a violent sport. Hockey is a violent sport. It's using force, producing force, against your opponent in a violent fashion, right, and to say otherwise is a violent sport. It's using force, producing force against your opponent in a violent fashion, right, and to say otherwise is a lie.

Speaker 1: 8:50

And this is what we talked about with you know, what I talked about with Aaron Genetti a few weeks ago is like the language of violence and it's not. It's not. It's like you can't take out out of it. And if you try to take it out of it, you're sanitizing something that can't be sanitized. You cannot sanitize a fight with a meth head in an alley right At two o'clock in the morning, when he's all hopped up on a bunch of meth and he's been on a bender and he just beat his wife or girlfriend into a coma, like this. These things happen all the time and if you want to try to sanitize that? Like go to hell. Like go to hell, cause that's mitigating what we go through as cops and and what like what actually occurs in that alley. Like you want to sanitize that, like get out of here.

Speaker 1: 9:32

That's what's got people pissed off about this. Like you were trying to sanitize everything and it can't be like. What we need is we need people to understand exactly the dirtiness and the nastiness and the bullshit that we go through. Like that would be helpful. Not coming up with a modified gift wrap, twisted arm control and calling it a safe wrap that you can then sell to politicians and agencies on our backs, on the backs of the work that we do. That's what's got people pissed off. That's what's got me upset about this is your marketing. You guys are full of shit. Stop lying with your marketing and really the tactics are fine. Nobody's going to be upset about the tactics. I haven't heard one person say that twisting arm control is a bad thing. That's not it. It's the way you're selling it. You're riding our backs.

Speaker 1: 10:25

Stop sanitizing it and stop putting it out like, oh, if you punch someone in the face, you're wrong. Strikes to the face, palm heels to the face, to the jaw, to the nose, to the brachial plexus, origin All these things are appropriate actions. Elbows to the clavicle, elbows to the face believe it or not, those things are valid, valid techniques, and to try to pitch something like you can do this without hitting someone is insane. Knees, knee strikes knee strikes are very effective and they are 100% okay to use, and to say otherwise is ridiculous. Now, the, the use of them and how you use them like that, that always has to be looked at. That's the same for the for the safe wrap system. If you use that inappropriately, you'll be wrong. Okay, like it just, it just is.

Speaker 1: 11:19

Like you know, like as much as there's no rules in a street fight, like we have professional standards that we have to go by, based on your, your agency, supreme Court, case law, granby Connor, tennessee versus Garner, like all these uses of force, things that that that govern the overarching structure of what's acceptable for policing, right, those things are in place, but like the bad guy, the perpetrators, they don't have rules, they don't have to adhere to any of those. That's not even in the consideration of resisting law enforcement. You're breaking the rules. That's not a thing. We have professional standards that we need to maintain to make sure constitutionality is in place. But once things exceed a certain point and this is a greater conversation of use of force and, like life and death, right, like lethal force, you know, like the constitutionality of lethal force Once things exceed our ability to stop them in a less lethal fashion, then lethal force will be applied and that's going to be different for every officer, based on training, based on size, based on ability, based on age.

Speaker 1: 12:37

Like, my 25-year-old self is not as skilled, but it was stronger and faster in a lot of ways. My 42-year-old self is not the same guy. There's a difference. There's a different way that I'm going to apply things now than I did then. Some are better, some are worse, it just is what it is. The burden of my ability to escalate and de-escalate is based on a lot of those factors. If I get injured during the fight, if I break a leg during a fight, if I smash my head and I feel like I'm going unconscious during a fight, all of those things need to go into consideration with use of force when it exceeds my ability to handle things other than lethally, to handle things other than lethally.

Speaker 1: 13:27

So, again, the notion of the marketing is just total nonsense, total nonsense. They're just playing politics. They're playing politics to try to get big contracts right. They want to be the only game in town for law enforcement, which from a business standpoint I kind of understand. But the way they're going about it is, it's portraying things the way it's, not to a group of people that are already wanting to see it that way and it's not true, or the public, who doesn't know any different. And then they see the Gracies with these commercials on social media and and and it's like, oh yeah, that seems way more reasonable. All you have to do is twist their arm in front of their face and then you never have to throw a punch again.

Speaker 1: 14:18

Oh, why are these cops continuing to throw punches? Oh, because they don't understand violence. Because they're normal people, right, normal people don't understand this and that's kind of okay and it's kind of accepted or acceptable. Is that a normal person kind of shouldn't understand what a street fight in an alley at two o'clock in the morning with a meth head feels like? It's like why should they? How should they? It's probably not good for them. It would probably destroy their worldview.

Speaker 1: 14:49

Again talked with Jannetty about that Like it would shatter their worldview and they wouldn't be able to handle it. Okay, and this goes into, like you can talk about terror management and you know, like different psychological theories about trauma and stuff like that, but like a normal person, like a reasonable person, would not understand, it, does not understand, it, shouldn't understand it. A reasonable officer is a different burden and that's why reasonable officer standard is used in Supreme Court case law, because a normal person would never understand what we do and it shouldn't be as like assumed that they would. So like that's part of the reason that dash cams are great and body cams are great, but at the same time they are not, because they're exposing the normies, right, the normal people of society, the average person, to things that are the reasonable person, to things that are the reasonable person, to things that are unreasonable in their world, okay, and then to pitch a system that then supports that worldview when it's not, that's not it. That's not true. It needs to be pitched inside a reasonable officer standard, not to a reasonable person.

Speaker 1: 16:01

So they're pitching it to the public. They're pitching it to politicians. They're pitching it to admin. They're not pitching it to the public. They're pitching it to politicians. They're pitching it to admin. They're not pitching it to street cops. That's the marketing. That is what they're doing, right? And if you look at the price point with it, the price point with this stuff, as far as I know and I probably should have checked the SafeRap cost of the training, but I know the GST program is expensive of the training, but I know the GST program is expensive and unless you get your agency to sponsor you, you probably aren't going to afford it. So there's that to look at too. But a price is an interesting thing. We'll talk about that in a second right.

Speaker 1: 16:41

But that is the marketing aspect of this that has got most cops, that cops that that are annoyed by this or offended by this, or like irritated, you know, or mad, or whatever, whatever emotion you want to plug in there. I'm like that's why this is why like it's not the tactics, right, it's all the other stuff that goes behind the scenes. You know, and, and I think hopefully people listen to this and and and really like it resonates with with cops that hear this, especially cops that do jujitsu. You know, I've seen, you know, black belts black belts that I really respect online are irritated about this Right. Part of it is to the, the fact that they tried to or are going to or whatever patent pending on this thing. Like they just took a jujitsu move and put a patent on it, or tried to, or trying to. It's like OK, so what? Like nobody can use this anymore except the Gracies, and if you do, you got to pay them 20 bucks or something before you can use their gift wrap series.

Speaker 1: 17:41

Like is that, is that what we're doing? Like that's like, that's, that's absurd. But what is that actually doing? Why did they do that? It seems stupid. But the only reason you would do that from a business standpoint is to patent and trademark your system so that if anybody else does a system that has this move in it, regardless of what it's called, they're going to litigate them into extinction so that they will literally be the only game in town. And that's not going to be good either. Right, that one? That'll just water down your training. If it's just a massive, just like you know, like it just won't be good because it'll turn into just departmental mandated crap which we all know isn't effective. So we all know that If the government's making you do it, it's probably not quality. So if you get linked into that, they'll make a shit ton of money, but their quality will just tank. It'll tank. This is just how public versus private goes. If you want something high quality, it's not going to be from the government, it's not going to be. That's why they're doing it. That's why this patent is pending on.

Speaker 1: 19:00

This is so that if you use that move and God forbid, you were to actually say, say crap, and they found out, they're going to litigate you right out of existence. Same thing CrossFit did. Uh, same thing CrossFit did. If you do functional fitness, if we do a workout of power cleans and pull-ups and put it a clock on it and call it a name that is synonymous with CrossFit or is uh. If we do 21, 15, nine thrusters and pull-ups and we call it Fran and we're not paying the $3,000 a year for the affiliate fee, then you are breaking the rules and we're going to litigate the crap out of you until you can't exist anymore. They'll bring out the big sticks on that big lawyers. So to an extent, as a business, like I kind of understand it, but at the same time, like you're just trying to be the only game in town. Okay, so if you do own a jujitsu gym, you train cops.

Speaker 1: 19:56

You have your own protocols of you know, combatives, defensive tactics, whatever you call it. Just make sure that you don't use their terms, never use their terms, never even say their terms in your courses, and then you'll be fine, like you can still use it. Like nobody can patent a jiu-jitsu move, like I can't just patent a double leg and call it the Anthony takedown and then all of a sudden, like you have to pay me 17 cents every time you say double leg, like that's, like that's not, that's not a thing, that's that can't happen. So you just can't use the terms. They're. They're trademarking the terms, not the actual move. That's what they're doing. But again, the only reason to do that is to crush your competitors and to be able to litigate them out of existence.

Speaker 1: 20:41

So that that's kind of that's another thing that's annoying to people and you know it just is like it's, it's, it's pretty arrogant. It really is, um, but uh, yeah, so cost, let's go back to that, all right. Uh, you know I mentioned earlier that, uh, that, like who they're promoting it to, you can tell like, typically, like the GST program is expensive enough. I can't remember what the cost is. It's several thousand dollars and unless you're an incompetent cop and you get caught on body camera sucking at fighting, then they'll comp you in. Like does anyone know these officers? I'll give them a free GST, blah, blah, blah. So, like all you have to do to get a free GST is to suck on camera, I'm like okay, like yeah, that's I understand. But at the same time it's like well, what about the dudes that are actually good and would like to go to this training? Right, what about that? Like hey, why don't you take some guys that like had great fights and like employed some a gift wrap series on camera and like, hey, this guy did really good. Let's, let's scholarship him into a program? Don't see that very often Kind of annoying. Anyway, the it's, it's just expensive enough.

Speaker 1: 21:55

Where I was like I ain't paying for that, right, it doesn't have enough value to me to pay that out of my my own pocket, right, pay that out of my own pocket, right, I'm not going to do it. Now, who gets to go? Like department instructors, academy staff, you know, upper level officers or command stuff like that, right, those are the guys that get to go typically, typically right, and it's usually the select few. It's usually the same ones that go to all the stuff, right, they get to go to this, ok, but it's because the department is paying for it. They're footing the dime. So that's that's who they want.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Is they want the departments because the departments have the money, like road cops don't have the money. They want to be able to provide a product that's just expensive enough, where it's like oh, we want the government to get it because the government's got deep pockets, right. So this is kind of their mindset with it and to an extent I understand that, because it's got to have value. It's got to have value. So this is kind of a double-edged sword here, cause, like, if the government's paying for it and I go for free, cause my department's paying for it, how much value does that have to me? Nothing, I didn't pay for it, okay.

Speaker 1: 23:15

So maybe there's a sense of like duty and honor that, that, that my agency paid me to do this and I should probably do a good job and bring it back so I can disseminate the information. But it also doesn't have any real value. So, like I didn't, I don't have any skin in the game other than a weekend of training, right, that's it. So like 50-50,. You know whether I'm really into it. If I'm really into it, then it'll have value and I'll bring it back and I'll do it.

Speaker 1: 23:45

But if I'm like meh, kind of one foot in, one foot out, or or you know, I just wanted to get go for the weekend or my buddy was gone so I conned my department to send me to like that's not gonna, they're not gonna learn anything, right, they're not gonna learn jack. Because, like, when you're, when you're, when you want change, you have to want the change bad enough to have an investment. And that's also with guys I talk to with my program. My program, one-on-one, isn't free. I don't think that it's pricing cops out out, because I think the price point is is valid, right, and I've done a lot of market research on that to verify that.

Speaker 1: 24:33

But what I run into is I'm level 10, committed to changing and to getting in shape and to losing weight and to becoming like the peak performance athlete that cops need to be Right. But and here's all the reasons why like I'm really scared I'm going to get hurt in a fight and not be able to continue to work or, god forbid, like I did get into a fight and it didn't go well, right, I talked to a lot of guys where that's, that's the clincher. Like I got into a foot chase and it didn't go well and I got through it. But it could have gone bad and this one didn't but it could have and it's very evident. You know, after thinking about it you're like holy shit, like that could have gotten ugly and it didn't. But I got to change some stuff and I'm level 10, committed to changing, until all of a sudden you're like not for that price point, I'm level zero, committed to changing.

Speaker 1: 25:26

So it's like well, what is your value? What's your monetary value that you do have in committing to your change? Because there has to be some type of skin in the game, there has to be some type of investment. And if you look at what you're already spending your money on, like that is what you're investing as important, that's it Okay. So, like, if you are sitting in, you know this is. This is not judgment on this, I'm not saying this is good or bad. Like this just is, is what it is.

Speaker 1: 25:56

If you're sitting in a big ass house and paying, you know, like like three, four, $5,000 a month for that house and then you have a thousand dollar a month car payment on a brand new truck and you have, you know, um, like all these toys and a boat and and like you know that kind of stuff. Then you are, you are investing in entertainment. You're you're investing in entertainment If you are taking, uh, vacations this is where I used to be right Is vacations. I would invest in vacations to like Orlando and go take the kids to Disney and stuff like that, like I was investing in entertainment. Okay, and that's not good or bad. It can be great or it could be negative. It just depends on where you really want to invest in you and in your future and in your family and like that kind of stuff. It's investments in the future.

Speaker 1: 26:49

Um, so you know, like, are you willing to invest some of what you're already doing for entertainment and toys and vacations and and and food and like like junk food, not like quality food, like we need to to eat, but like how much of that are you willing to uh like move and shift in order to invest in you as a human being? Okay, and as an officer, as a firefighter, as like having the the capacity to do things uh and efficiently, to sustain a longer career, to extend your ability to work longer in order to support your family, potentially like building a robust aerobic system that you can survive into retirement. Like building skill sets when you're new so that you can have a better understanding of how to maintain strength, durability and, and, like you know, mental and physical health throughout this grind of a profession. Like, are you willing to invest in those things? Well, yes, but only $200. Okay, well, is it? How much of an investment is that?

Speaker 1: 27:59

You know, for some people it might be like, yeah, dude, that's all I got. Okay, badass, get after it. But for some people it's like, oh, that's all I got. And it's like okay, is it? Is it right? It might not be. So, you know, I'm not saying that that money always has to be or is the only way to commit to things, but it usually is a pretty good indicator of where you're spending your energy and where you're sending your focus, and where you're sending, like, where. What you are labeling as important is typically that. It's typically that, like, just follow the money. If you just follow the money, that'll tell you where your investments are. And yeah, I mean, if you want something different, like you just have to change the investment and that's it. You know that's it.

Speaker 1: 28:47

Sometimes it hurts, but hey, like changing hurts. Like changing hurts it's not. Like change is not a comfortable thing, it's painful. You know what I mean. Like that's why, as you watch your kids grow up, you think back like man. I remember when I was like you know, like 10, 11, 12, 13, and like man, my knees hurt all the time, my elbows hurt all the time, and it's like stretching and growing and becoming this, like you know, this new thing, right, and, and it's it's the same. Like things cause pain when they're changing and the pain, like you, but in you pick your pain, right, you choose it. Like the pain of staying the same versus the pain of going through the process of transition and transformation. You know, like that, you pick and that's what's cool about it. It's like you do get to pick, okay, you literally choose one path or the other, and this is cool too.

Speaker 1: 29:48

Like you know, part of the hero's journey, like I really kind of going off on some rails here. But the hero's journey, joseph Campbell's life's work, his concept of the Omni myth, right, is really, I think, a critical thing to kind of understand and that's part of the reason that I chose heroic industries, heroic nation, like the hero's path and the hero's journey is really important. Industries heroic nation, like the hero's path and the hero's journey is really important. And part of that is that, uh, when you are presented with the opportunity for adventure and change and going away from where you're at currently, uh, like you deny it, you deny the call to adventure, and that's part of it. That's part of it.

Speaker 1: 30:24

And if we look back at all the like big adventures that you had in your life and you start like piecing it together and you're like, oh yeah, I did say no to that a couple of times. You know, I did say no to that once, or I, or I didn't jump on that right away. That was the denial of the call to adventure. Okay, that's what it was, and um was and um. And if you look at any story told throughout history, like you know, star wars is the ultimate kind of like, uh, like example of the hero's journey in like modern fiction. Um, like you see, where did luke not? And I'm not talking about, like the, uh, the, the newer star wars or the prequels, like uh, I'm talking about episodes three, four, four and, I'm sorry, four, five and six almost messed that up. Uh, so, like those ones right in the middle, the good ones.

Speaker 1: 31:13

Um, when you look at Luke and uh, and, and, and the way that he was called to step away from tattooing and to go into this big adventure and to fight Darth Vader and go through all the journey in the process that he did in order to become and transition and transform into a Jedi Knight and then save the universe from the evil empire, right, he denied that call, he didn't want to go do it at first. Okay, so that's something that's like well, think about. Think about that. Like did you just say this is too expensive because you're denying the call to becoming the hero and having the adventure that that that you, you know you need to. So stop denying it because it's gonna, it's gonna keep knocking until until you say yes, it'll keep knocking, it'll keep knocking.

Speaker 1: 32:10

And sometimes you deny it a bunch before you're like shit, like this thing won't go away, I gotta go with it, you know, I gotta go with it. And and it's it's painful for me. Sometimes I have conversations with dudes when it's like dude, and it's painful for me. Sometimes I have conversations with dudes when it's like dude. We have literally had this talk five times, like, how many times do we have to have this conversation before you accept the call to action, you accept the way to step into the new transformative process that you're saying no to, and it sucks. It sucks, though, because to transform, you have to leave behind certain aspects, and and I just talked to a buddy today about this where it's like I didn't want things to change, I liked things the way they were, I liked them that way. Well, tough shit.

Speaker 1: 33:00

Situations change, times change, people change. You know like things break, things need to be built New things are built around old things, and then, like you know, it's just, it's life, it's life, man, and you have to be open to see that. And when you can be open to see that, like you don't see the negatives, you actually see the doors opening in front of you, like as one door shuts, like you just have to be aware and have can be open to see that. Like you don't see the negatives, you actually see the doors opening in front of you, like as one door shuts, like you just have to be aware and have to have to be present enough and forward thinking and forward focused enough where you can see the doors opening in front of you, and that's how you navigate transitions. It's how you navigate transitions into new jobs, out of jobs, into positions out of positions you know, like we, and, and that, and that provides continued sense of purpose in the sense of this greater hero's journey. All right, that got that.

Speaker 1: 34:01

Got a little bit more intense than I wanted to, but I think it's all good information. I'd love to hear some feedback on what you guys think about any of that, from the Gracie stuff to the marketing, to the hero's journey, to investing in yourself and where you're spending your time and money. Hit me with it. All right. Also, enjoy this episode. Let me know what you think about the conversation with Mike. And yeah, that's all I got. All right, dudes and chicks, because that's all there is.

Speaker 1: 34:48

Later, awesome man, um, well, dude, thanks for, uh, just randomly um jumping on with some random dude on the internet. I appreciate it. Yeah, man, I'm here for it. Well, I always talk to people and that you know like I've done this on and off for like um, I don't know, since I had my gym, um, probably like three, four years of like randomly doing podcasts, and then you know like it's hard. I mean you know how it is like it's a grind to do these things, so then give up. But in the in the process of doing that, like I've gotten access to some really cool people and I got guys at work. They're like how do you do this? I'm like I don't know. I just shoved my way into these circles, like online, and hope for the best. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 35:34

Yeah, man, I was like people are. People are a lot more accessible than people think that they are. You know, it's just just gotta ask.

Speaker 1: 35:40

Yeah, well, cool. Yeah, basically, I was just, you know, curious as to like you know some stuff about your background I'd love to talk about like your social media and why you did it and then and then kind of get into like what you're doing now, cause I think it like I sent you in that message, I think it really relates to like transitional points in life and and like there's there's some really cool stuff that you can, that you can like dig into what you're doing now and how you kind of got there Cool. So, yeah, man, fill me in on on like kind of your background. I know you're, you're you worked in Detroit, you know, and like how kind of like where'd you grow up? Are you from Michigan? How'd you end up in Detroit? Like you know a little bit of history on on your police work side?

Speaker 2: 36:26

Yeah, yeah, so just for the the listener um, like, I definitely live in Metro Detroit and worked in Metro Detroit, but not not for the city. So uh, just just in case no one thinks I've got like stolen Detroit valor or something like that, I worked on some like bordering areas. So like, uh, in in that area, but not not for the city, especially when I went into policing they, they didn't pay. I mean, I still got paid crap, but they, they were even worse. So but yeah, anyway, I moved to Michigan when I was five so I was like came, came around the country. My parents were from here and when I was super young, they, they moved us back.

Speaker 1: 37:08

So I've been in the area since then okay, did uh when, when you were going like moving around stuff like um, play sports like stuff like that, like any background with that, yeah, I, mean I did it.

Speaker 2: 37:24

I did, uh, I suppose, all the normal kid stuff. You know little league, soccer, all that stuff. I don't think flag football leagues existed when I was a kid, I have no recollection of anyone doing that. But uh, yeah, I did all, did all those things. Did you know karate, whatever, like all the I guess, normal kid stuff. Growing up, high school sports I did wrestling one year and that was it for high school sports.

Speaker 1: 37:54

Okay, and then did you stay, obviously, or maybe not obviously, but did you stay in the area for college, going to military, anything like that?

Speaker 2: 38:01

Yeah, I went to college here in Detroit, university of Detroit, oh, ud. That's where my mom went Really. Yeah, yeah, I went to. I went to college here in Detroit university, detroit, oh, ud. That's where my mom went Really, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was there from 93 to 97.

Speaker 1: 38:10

Oh cool, um, and then did you like major in criminal justice, or how'd you end up from there into police work?

Speaker 2: 38:18

No, I started out as pre-med and then like realized I was way too stupid. Way too stupid for that. Uh, about, like, after my first semester. Uh, it could have been. It could have been, uh, alcohol consumption and late nights, or it could have been stupidity I, you know, the world will never know. But I was like, yeah, this is not happening. So, uh, I tried to figure out, well, what, what am I going to do? And I'm like, I like arguing, I like reading. So it became philosophy was my major, uh for my VA.

Speaker 1: 38:52

Oh sweet. So how'd you wind up from there into going to police work? Is it just that there's not too many like philosophy jobs on the market?

Speaker 2: 39:02

Yeah, Um, actually it was in college, like I had family that was in public safety, even when I was like really young, like my dad was a dispatcher for, uh, champaign urbana fire department and like so I I've had some type of connection or affinity to public public safety since forever. And uh, I actually met a couple of cops on campus and it I don't know the, the job like intrigued me. It wasn't my path at the time, but that's when really, I was like man, this seems like a really seems like it'd be a really cool job. Um, and then I got a job in security at if you're from the midwest, you'll know the chain meyer, uh, and oh yeah, I uh, I just I just so I.

Speaker 1: 39:51

So I'm up in uh for for the fourth I'm at my parents house. That's why I got the blurred background so you don't see all like the, the old, like stuff on the background or on the wall. But uh, I just told my sister I I go cause there's a Meyer like half a mile down the road, because there's Meyer on every corner, and I was like I'm going to track how much you're spending this week at Meyer and I guarantee it's like 2000 bucks.

Speaker 2: 40:15

Yeah, I used to catch shoplifters at at Meyer and then every time we caught them and turn him over to the police. You know I was getting, I was getting to know the local cops. And then one of my guys that I worked with all the time he went to the police academy and went into law enforcement. And that happened like four times with like different people that I worked with. They all they all made the jump from there into law enforcement and that again still stuck with me. It was it just I got married really young, started having kids very young and I was more focused on survival than choice, preference of careers, and so, yeah, again, it always stuck with me.

Speaker 2: 41:01

Then my brother actually same thing he started out in that loss prevention but then he did like, went into like make more money, like grocery management and stuff like that. But then he went to the Detroit Police Academy and got hired in Detroit and I watched his career and I was like man, yeah, I could really do this. And then finally the economy took a dump and I had a window washing business that I was running and lost a lot of clients and I was like man, I need a change. And that's when I decided to make the jump into law enforcement, and that was like 2000,. 2008, when the decision was made, 2009, when I actually like took the tests and started going.

Speaker 1: 41:46

Oh, okay, so how old were you when you did that?

Speaker 2: 41:50

Like 33.

Speaker 1: 41:51

Oh, so you were a little bit older for your class then. Huh yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:54

I mean I wasn't the oldest and I definitely, as I worked at the academy later on part-time, like I saw lots of mid late forties, even into the f 50s, coming through the academy I was like wow, but yeah 50s man, that's not even um, it's not even allowed.

Speaker 1: 42:10

In indiana they don't let like 30s. Yeah, 36 is a cutoff because you can't get into the uh pension after that. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, um, all right. So you were 33 when you got into that, so that was. You said that was 09, so how long did you, how long did you work in law enforcement then?

Speaker 2: 42:27

Uh well, I got out in 2020, so 11 years. Um. I stopped full time in the summer of 2017. And then I kept my certain stayed working, um, like a weekend warrior, um, part-time, uh, because I still kind of enjoyed it, but I knew at that point that I needed to. I needed to be moving on to something that could make me more money and give me a better future.

Speaker 1: 42:57

So at what point? At what point did you get into like social media? Because that I mean like you built, have built like and continue to build like a pretty huge brand. You know, like stuff, like is everywhere.

Speaker 2: 43:13

Yeah, it was, the whole point of doing anything on social media was to draw attention to an organization that I was a part of, starting with another lady Her name's Tristi and we started this thing, humanizing the Badge. We kind of merged. She was doing some blogging and work online. I had started a blog called Cop Life way back in the day just to start sharing experiences and whatever. And so, yeah, I was doing that, we crossed paths, we started doing this thing called humanizing the badge and we were like a year in and trying to just think how can we draw more attention to this cause?

Speaker 2: 44:03

You know, it really wasn't like a major business or anything. It was just we were thinking if we can generate revenue, we can help cop families. You know what can we donate? I mean, it's still, to this day, part of a nonprofit. It's not like a big windfall, big windfall of cash. And at the time I was watching my kids were showing me this guy, officer Daniels, on vine, and so I was like, well, he seems to be getting a lot of views. I could try to make some videos and then maybe that would like draw more attention to the page, you know, or the group or whatever. And uh, and it worked, so that I just didn't stop.

Speaker 1: 44:44

So how did you, how did you transition into like just doing it non-for-profit? And then I mean is is it, is it something that that you like? Clearly you'd be able to, but I don't know if you're doing it like as now, currently like as a revenue stream, you know, have you been able to build that like monetarily? Is that, has that ever been a goal?

Speaker 2: 45:04

Yes and no. So, like early on, it actually became problematic because the videos were doing really well and and there was a lot of attention to the videos. But I didn't like that, actually, because it was starting to be like I felt like my presence on the page and it wasn't just me. There was me, there was Tristy, there was another guy named Steven. We had, we had a bunch of people contributing to the page and to the effort and it wasn't just me, you know. So, like I was like pretty, I was feeling uncomfortable with this page called humanizing the badge being like mostly my videos, and I was just like it just doesn't feel right. I don't, I don't like this. That's when, like in 2016, I actually just made a separate page and said like I'll just keep this stuff separate and then I'll kind of like champion the, the cause, like I'll point people back to that, but let's keep the main thing, the main thing on humanizing the badge. I don't want this to be my thing. I want it to be, you know, a collective effort and so, um, but yeah, I mean, as far as monetization goes, uh, this was really early on in, like most of the Facebook days, the monetization, like there was no such thing as ad revenue like maybe on YouTube or something, but that took a while to grow, and so there was some monetization on YouTube. And then I think Facebook released monetization I want to say like 2018 for Facebook and I was banned within two weeks from it. I spent fortunately, I had other admins on my page so I could post to my page, but it wasn't like I was logged into other people's Facebooks. I spent almost 20 months banned off of Facebook. Why did they? Why did they ban you? What'd you get banned for? Do you know Conservative content and positions? Basically like post a meme or post a video, and it would just get demonetized and then removed from Facebook, blocked for just over and over and over again. So, monetization-wise, no, this never really been a thing. And then they turned it back on.

Speaker 2: 47:22

For me, I want to say it was like 2020, the early 2020, they turned it all of a sudden like my page was monetized again and it lasted about six weeks. And then, in 2021, I posted a meme on January 6th and uh, and then I spent the next 30 days completely banned from Instagram and Facebook. I was banned from meta for 30 days and then, since then my personal page gets more interaction than my 1.1 million page Facebook, easily I'm completely shut down on Facebook and Instagram. In the last 30 days, I reached 1.8 million accounts and I lost point. Reached 1.8 million accounts and I lost point. Every month since January 6th, I've lost minus 0.01% of my followers. So it's it's like there's an automatic setting to just keep removing people from me. Um, so I just fight the good fight, I guess.

Speaker 2: 48:24

Uh, uh, all that to say, yes, I was able to turn that into turn digital to analog things, and so how I did that was more through affiliate marketing and products, that kind of a thing, not really like ad revenue, but you know, whether it was a T-shirt or challenge coins or something you know, like that, and I just was learning the skills of marketing and business in that sense. And that's when, in 2017, I left the full-time policing. It was kind of risk-free because I was going to make more money and I could take a year, a year leave of absence from my department and come back if I needed to. I would lose seniority, but I wouldn't lose my position, Like I would. I would come back at the same pay, all that stuff, Like I would, just if anybody passed me in seniority then I was giving that up.

Speaker 2: 49:19

But so it was really relatively risk-free and that was to work with a company that was doing like screen printing and sublimation and product manufacturing and I was helping social media content creators, you know, create merch stores and things like that. That's what I did right when I left. That really wasn't super. I wasn't jazzed about that, and it was in that time that I kind of stumbled into the real estate thing and kind of found my, found my real path out um, did you get any shit from like your department or like co-workers, stuff like that when you're doing this social media, or was everybody pretty supportive?

Speaker 2: 50:01

I think I mean, I'm sure there's always some people talking behind your back, you know, but I mean as far as, as far as the overall thing, it was super supportive. I had been doing blog writing and nonprofit work and stuff like that for almost two years, before Mike the Cop was ever a thing. So by the time that I came to say, hey, can I post these videos? What's our social media policy? Make sure I could do that stuff. They just gave me a lot of rope because they already knew. I think that they knew I wasn't doing this Just like, I don't know, get clicks or just get attention. I had a purpose for it and I think that that helped. If, if I had just like randomly started doing it, I don't know that it would have been as received, but they had. They had already seen me doing things that no one else in the world was seeing, right, like it wasn't to the public eye, it was just like what I was doing in the profession before that. So I think, like they were super supportive.

Speaker 1: 51:13

Okay, cool. So something like you talk about humanizing the badge and I think that's that's like a, a term. Well, like, what's your take on what that means? Because I think, over the last like since 2020 for sure, like, I think that's one of those hijacked terms where it's like so many of these like um, and it's like you know the cops you see on, uh, some of the meme pages that get like reposted, you know it's those semi-troll accounts, um, but they do point out some cops that are, I my opinion, like just being idiots, you know, like clearly violating their social media policies and like, and then, just under the guise of humanizing the badge, and it's like, so what is what does that actually mean?

Speaker 2: 51:54

well, I, I don't know what it means anymore. Um, yeah, because I see that hashtag on, you know, a lot of tiktok, cops, kind of like pages and and I'm just like, what are we doing? You know, know what, what has this become? And for me I can tell you, like I articulated it for myself, like I'm like I asked myself, okay, what am I actually doing? Like what is the point of what I'm going to be doing on social media?

Speaker 2: 52:23

And for me it was to encourage cops and to educate non-cops in entertaining ways, like that's what I was trying to do. Um, and at the time, kind of like I was watching like Michael Brown situation unfold. That's what really got me to be more like I don't want to use the term activist because I don't I don't think that that's necessarily like an accurate term in this, but like I wanted to, I wanted to give more voice about the reality of law enforcement that the media was either straight up lying about or skewing right, and so I wanted to say like hey, listen, like there are real people on the other side of this that you're destroying, right? That's where the whole idea of humanizing the badge came from. Like listen, this is not just like some faceless force. You know that is occupying America. These are people, right, and I really wanted to educate people on that and show like we're just normal people.

Speaker 2: 53:32

And so I wanted two things to be true at once. I wanted I wanted cops to be able to see my content and to relate to it Like and to be encouraged. I wanted them to like be able to blow off steam and laugh at something and and get it. And I also wanted non-cops. I wanted it to be relatable to them too. No-transcript Good, bad or indifferent that's what. That's what I was trying to do.

Speaker 1: 54:31

Yeah, I think it's's, it's become something different. It's almost like and granted, like on the state of social media, everything becomes super polarizing, but it's again like it's a hijacked term, but the way that you're using it and the way that you're really like talking about it is like you know, I, I kind of look at it from a standpoint of like we have as cops, we have a history of being so silent and stoic and like don't say anything, don't talk about anything, don't talk to the public about like things behind the veil, and it's like that's not really what we need to do. You know what I mean. Like we need to show people some of it, you know, like the appropriate stuff, and then, uh, and then what you're talking about is actually just like building relationships, you know, which is almost the entirety of our profession in general. You know, and I think you know, everybody kind of forgets about that. So you know, humanizing the badge I wouldn't say like that's. That's not like a term I would use anymore if I was just starting or something, but I don't use it.

Speaker 1: 55:46

What do you really think this is going to accomplish by like attacking us at a local level, like there's all sorts of other things at play. And uh, and it's like what, what are you, what are you doing? Man, I live down the street from you. Like, why are you throwing bottles of piss at me? Like that's not, that's not effective, or anything.

Speaker 1: 56:02

So, yeah, I think that's, uh, that's really important, and I think that that we do a poor job still of like like hey, we just need to have discussions with people, but we also need people to listen and and that's and that's kind of hard to do. But I mean, you hit the nail on the head like doing it, doing it comedically, you know cause, like at least that, at least that'll keep people's attention, cause people don't want to learn things like God forbid, yeah, all right. So like, uh, with real estate, so how did you make the transition into that? And and like, give me the details on that, cause I, I looked at the. It's a 10, seven project, right, yep? So I looked at that a little bit, but like I'm still pretty ignorant. So so fill me in.

Speaker 2: 56:45

Yeah, I had a friend, uh, chris Fisher, and he and he he had actually been a part of of humanizing the badge and we we hit it off. And as we got to know each other, he was making a transition from Alabama, where he was a cop, to Arizona. He was going to do a lateral transfer. He was marrying his now his wife and he was making a big cross-country move. And then in the last two weeks of his employment in Alabama, he got in a fight with a suspect, tore a bunch of tendons in his gun hand and so he had to have surgery.

Speaker 2: 57:24

And basically the PD in Arizona was like well, thanks, but no thanks, try, try again next year, you know like. So he found himself in a, in a strange place and, uh, as he would tell it, he only had his wife and five of her family members in his phone. Those, those are the only people he knew in Arizona. And he found himself unemployed and like, well, crap, what do I do now? And ultimately that led him to get his real estate license and start down that path and he was finding some, some good success and he kept telling me I mean, this goes back to like 2015. He goes like you gotta get your real estate license, gotta get your real estate license. And I'm like I'm not a salesy douchebag, not going to happen, you know like good for you, but it ain't me, it ain't me. And so, finally, I relented and said I was traveling a lot at the time Like in that 2017, 2018, I was traveling a lot.

Speaker 2: 58:18

And so I said, all right, every time I'm on a plane, I'll do a little bit of the course and I'll, when I get in my license, I'll let you know. So I finally did, and then it was exactly what I thought it was. It was horrible. I went to some local brokerage and I was like this is super stupid. These guys wear shirts I don't wear. They want cars I don't want. I'm like this is like everybody's, like you gotta make call your leads back. And I was like, yeah, again, this is this is stupid, uh, happy gilmore, you're just in the rock.

Speaker 1: 58:48

They've all wore pants like that. I kicked my own ass exactly how it felt.

Speaker 2: 58:53

And so he's like no man, you're doing it wrong, you just you know, and it's it's hard to kind of teach that stuff from from a distance, you know, especially when you don't you're not experienced teaching people in that. So long story short is I hung my license. I basically quit. I was like, yeah, I'm not doing this. And then, not randomly, but like somebody reached out, a cop that had moved here a few years back, and him and his fiance they're like would you help us sell her place and buy our new place? I'm like sure, let's meet. And I was like I decided like I was just going to give him the full full, me, right. So I showed up in shorts and a t-shirt and this shower slides that I wear around everywhere, put my feet up on the desk and I was like I will negotiate the hell out of this for you, but you got to be okay with me being me. They're like sold fine, and and so when I did that, I was like, okay, now this is fun, right, like getting to go do this and solve problems and negotiate and help people while being myself like hell, yeah, like I'm all in on that. And I got paid Like I, like this, you know. So I really discovered in that transaction that cops are perfect. They're absolutely perfect for real estate if it's done right, because all the skills that they learn translate so well into this space. Really, any service-based business I don't care if it's lawn care or whatever, it doesn't really matter If it's a service-based business cops could move from any PD in any town USA and go right into it and do well if they, if they can just shift their brain a little bit.

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

So, yeah, that's where it kind of started. And then it then it just never stopped. I just like rolled one thing into the next and kind of like figured out me and Chris together we had gotten like some coaching and we really started to piece together what was working for us. Why was this working? Why wasn't this working? And we pieced together a whole, I guess, system, as it were, that we have like a process for how we can take a brand new person, especially from like the public safety background, and help them succeed, because we kind of carved a path for that. And so, yeah, in 2020, we launched that 10-7 project to say like, hey, let's help other people do this, and that's what we've been doing for four years and still grinding. Going to keep grinding, so.

Speaker 1: 1:01:23

Have you seen like a, like an influx of, like major numbers since 2020? It's like, honestly, I mean, you were caught for long enough. Like you see, different tipping points you talked about like Ferguson, and that was one. And then, like 2020 was a huge shift with so many things, like even down to the type of recruits that we're getting, and it was like not to get too political or, or, or you know, conspiracy theory ask. But, like you know, like even even our department, where we had riots with several thousand people and like you know, some serious violence.

Speaker 1: 1:01:54

And uh, I'm I'm looking at these, these rioters, and I'm like these are not physically tough people, they're counting on losing this fight physically. And then that, like I was like, oh, after about two days of it, I'm like, oh, they were just, they're just baiting us into a fight, they're instigating a fight so that then they can point fingers and say, look, you are what we said you were. And then I was like, well, how are they going to win this? Like, how is this a win for, for this side or this ideology? And it was like, oh, this is a war of attrition. They just want to make us the bad guy that nobody ever wants to anymore and create this power vacuum, right? So that's like the whole point of this, of this kind of like ideology and process. So like what I've seen is is like all right, like when, when you and I cause I got on an oh seven, um we're going through hiring processes I don't know how it was over in the, you know in in that side of well in in oh seven.

Speaker 1: 1:02:48

For down where I was in Indiana, it was like dude, there's like 30 spots and we got several thousand people applying, so it was pretty competitive to get on. I had to go through several hiring processes to get hired as a police officer and that was still close enough to 9-11, where I think people still wanted it. Now it's on the other way where it's like dude, we're barely filling spots, you know. So it's like they created this war of attrition and I, and like I, I have to imagine that doing something like this, you would have seen a lot of people, or or a decent amount, just like I'm out, like what else can I do? Is that? Is that what you've seen?

Speaker 2: 1:03:32

Yeah, when we, when we first came up with the idea, we had no, honestly, dude, we were, I mean, listen, I told you I'm a stupid cop like I. I realized, I realized many times that I get myself into things that I'm too dumb to complete. Uh, and this was no different. Uh, I'm very much a ready, ready fire aim it's sort of a approach to some of this stuff. But, um, when we, when we came up with this idea, we truly had no vehicle, we had no systems like we didn't have a way to actually deliver coaching to people effectively. We didn't have much of a solution to this at all. We just wanted to help and so we're like, so we put the word out there and this post went sort of like semi-viral or whatever, and we had like several thousand people reach out.

Speaker 2: 1:04:14

This would have been like the fall of 2020. And to this day, we regret that because, like there's no, we just never. We didn't follow up with almost any of them. We thought, oh, we're going to get like six or eight people to talk to me about real estate, you know, and we're like whoa, what do we even do with this?

Speaker 2: 1:04:36

You know it was impossible. Now our systems are much more refined and we could handle that today, like that wouldn't be a big deal. But yeah, we, you know, for example, just in Juneune alone, I think, we added about 260 people that registered uh on that project site, uh into our launch group where they can kind of get information and and just so everybody knows, like we have nothing, I have nothing to sell you like this, we don't, we don't sell anything, we don't, we don't sell real estate courses, we don't sell, we don't sell anything to you. So, um, so I think there's because cops are skeptical as all get out of course and uh, but yeah, now we have systems in place and we have about, we have about 230, 240 uh cops in the project now, with another 210 or so in real estate school actively right now, and that just keeps growing week over week.

Speaker 1: 1:05:35

That's awesome. So one thing, one thing I've kind of like noticed with you is based on, like your background you have. You have points where it's like you know, a lot of people get stuck at right pivot points. Okay, so, like your window washing business needing, like before you were a cop, even it's like all right. So, like this isn't working, how can I pivot and make my life work, you know, and the same thing with going through a social media, uh, you know like how, how can you make this work when it, you know it's a transitional period and then, especially with this, this is huge for like, all right, I found something else to do. Now, how do I pivot and make this happen? Now, how are you able to do that?

Speaker 1: 1:06:20

Because I see a lot of us, especially in this job, it becomes such a rigid mindset of, like this is who I am, this is how I do things. You know, I can't have a side hustle. This is not the type of person I am like and it to me it's all like dude, you're lying to yourself. But how are you able to kind of like keep that open mind and and and really see like the frame of a where one door shuts. There's like six more open. You just got to keep your head up.

Speaker 1: 1:06:47

You know, how are you able to do that?

Speaker 2: 1:06:49

Yeah, I think, for at least for me, one thing that I attribute that to is the fact that I did go into policing later in life, right, like later, compared to a lot of cops, right 33. So I dude, I already had four kids, I had jobs, I, you know, like I had boughten, like I was probably on my second or third home, you know, at that point, like I already been living life, you know. So I already kind of I had owned businesses, and so to me it was like, I don't know, it wasn't the be all and end all. I loved being a cop, I enjoyed it thoroughly, and there's a lot of great things that carry with me to this day, you know, and good friendships and experiences, and I mean that can't, that can't be taken away. Uh, but when I was able to see something outside of policing, because I had already lived 14 years, 15 years of my adult life without it you know what I'm saying so it was like I didn't feel like I needed it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:01

Yeah, that's that's really interesting Cause it's like I look at, just like outside, looking in, I look at your, your social media, your YouTube stuff, mike the cop, and you would assume that it's like this is this dude's identity is being a cop? And it's. It's really not, it's a part of your identity. You know what I mean and that's really that's really cool, cause I I've actually, I've actually tried changing my username but meta will not allow it.

Speaker 2: 1:08:26

So I people, people kind of tease me. I made a video the other day about like hey, reality check, Like it's not healthy for this job to be your identity, and so and it was a buddy of mine actually that commented like, says, says Mike the cop, you know, like, and I'm like, yeah, touche, I get it, but I can't change I, I'm, I've begged them, they, they will not let me change it and I don't know why. So it's like well, I'm, I'm stuck with it, whether I want it or not. Like, cause I was going to be like Mike was a cop or something or do something different, but they won't let me.

Speaker 1: 1:08:58

No, man, I like it. I like, I like the dichotomy of this. I really do. And it's like you know it, it's so critical that it's like listen, this is, this is a part of you. It is not all of you. And really, like you talk about transitional points and mindset and that was huge for me in 2020.

Speaker 1: 1:09:14

I was like all this stuff about, like you know, okay, what's going to happen with this profession, even down to, like you know, medical stuff coming in from the coast, like you know, like what's going to? What are they going to make us do? And I was like, am I ready to give this up? And then I had to go through a thought process where I'm like no, this is only part of me. This is how I make money. This is not all of me and I can take all these skills that I've developed.

Speaker 1: 1:09:38

Just like you said, cops are perfect for real estate and I can do a million different things.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

So really, it's terrifying at first to think about it with your life without this job, because it is pretty stable for the most part and it's fun, it's adventurous, like it gives you all those you know dopamine hits and all that kind of stuff that we get addicted to, but at the same time, like on the outside looking in, there is a life beyond it.

Speaker 1: 1:10:06

The world does continue to spin and the fact that you like you're really epitomizing that with this 10-7 project is really cool Because, like one thing that I always tell, like you know, either clients that I'm working with from a fitness and nutrition standpoint because that's what I focus on primarily but also from a mental health side like cops die on the average five years after retirement. That is a stat, it's been a stat for a long time and nobody really talks about it. And it really pisses me off and I think a lot of it is that there is no mission afterwards and like you're just like cool, you're done, see you later, here's a watch or whatever, like bye, and then there's nothing to transition to. And you have to have transition and you have to have a new purpose and, like you know, like you do that well in general and the fact that you're trying to impart that on to cops, you know, is awesome and we need more of us to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

Yeah, I mean for me at this point, I've been asking myself what is it that I'm all about now? Right, if I'm not trying, if my content is not trying to educate non-cops and and keep cops encouraged and entertain, like entertaining ways, you know, like with this, like because everybody knows if they paid attention to like I was basically doing sketch comedy, right, like short pieces, you know, like that's kind of like what I was, what I was known for, and there's certainly more to me than that. I don't want to lose sort of like that sarcastic, humorous edge and so, like, I'll throw in the, you know I'll make a meme here and there or whatever. I don't really see myself doing sketch comedy as much in the uniform kind of a thing anymore, but I can apply that. But right now, for me it's all about built, helping cops build better futures beyond the badge, right? Because it's not a matter of. This is one truth that I really want to drive home to people.

Speaker 2: 1:11:57

It is not, it's not a matter of if your cop career is going to come to an end, it's just a matter of when. Right? And are you, are you going to make that transition on your terms or on someone else's? You know it could be a catastrophic injury, it could be getting laid off. That happened to me. Like you just get a notice one day in your mailbox like, hey, thanks, thanks for being here, but you're not going to be next month.

Speaker 2: 1:12:23

You know, like, what's going to happen. You know you're going to retire and a lot of people I don't know how it is where you're at, but at least in Metro Detroit it's not as common anymore because now people have to work 30, 35 years to get their full, whatever. But 20 and out was super common. So you've got a ton of people around here that you know they get. They're 41 years old, they started when they were 21. They're 41 and they're done, they have a pension and like, ok, now what you know, you're going to go get a security job or are you going to be a court officer? Come on, man, stop it Like, do something with your life. You know like something different, something. You know something that does like create some interest or difference or change man. So yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:13:13

Yeah, and I think that when I, when I FTO right, I talk about this with rookies and I'm like, listen, you need to understand like the same thing, like this job is not meant to be forever, and I mean I really wish because I think the ATF actually has like mandatory retirement at like whatever age I think they they're actually has like mandatory retirement at like whatever age I think they they're like you're done, get out.

Speaker 1: 1:13:35

And I would really like to see states start doing that for for local law enforcement, like mandatory retirement age of something that's not going to, that's going to allow you to have a life on the back end, because it's really not to me, like I love this job and I'm going to have a hard time with not having like the adventure of the day-to-day stuff that we do. That's going to be my biggest issue. But having a mission and a focus and something on the back end of that will help to fill that hole, because this is not something that I want to do into my fifties like at all. I don't. I don't think that'll be good for me. You, I tell these rookies you've got to learn how to take these skill sets and develop it in the private sector and I really think that we should be teaching that in academy settings.

Speaker 2: 1:14:21

Yeah, I agree. I mean, there was a lot of good things communicated in the academy but they didn't talk about after policing, Right, I really didn't prepare you, Didn't didn't really prepare you for that at all. And you know, I, I can. I know of one, one of my former bosses that uh, died in his sleep, um, later in his career, died in his sleep later in his career. And then another one left, one of my lieutenants and he retired and then went to be a security guard somewhere. He died within, I think, three or four years of retirement.

Speaker 2: 1:15:01

I've seen it like unfold before my eyes, watching that stat be real. I'm just like dude, yeah, I don't want that to be me. Like I want to be, that's, I'm all about my grandkids, grandkids, man, Like I'm going to have an impact, I will be, I will be on the jujitsu mats and I will be slinging real estate or doing something business wise, like. Until it's over. There's, there's no such thing as retirement for me. There's just, you know, more, more adventure, more mission. But I think that's, that's it. You got, someone's got to tap into that sense of of of purpose for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:15:40

Yeah, and, and really I mean you can break this down as deep like you know, like philosophically, as you want to, but like, even like Viktor Frankl's, you know man's search for meaning, like what is well meaning, is giving life meaning. So if, if you're always on on a path to give it meaning, and you know, honestly, I think that can change over time and probably will for all of us. But you have to be having those conversations with yourself or you're not going to get there and then, all of a sudden, you're going to get stuck and depressed and and you know, and then life's going to be done before you know it. Yeah, yeah. And that's not just true of cops. Like, I just had this conversation with, uh, with a family member about the same exact thing.

Speaker 1: 1:16:14

Like, dude, you have to continue to grow and build and, and it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to do, but, uh, but having you know people available, and that's where social media, I think is, can be very helpful and it can be overwhelming, but it's like at least you have exposure to these different people. You know, yeah, for sure. Um, when did you get into jiu-jitsu? Was it on the job or was it after?

Speaker 2: 1:16:38

uh, I think uh, always on the job, I I got exposed to it like my first department did uh, krav maga as their defensive tactic stuff, and so then I was just like going on my own to the classes and I started to hate the classes because it was like soccer mom, kickboxing, it wasn't really I don't know. I was just like what am I doing here? And then when we did our training at work, I'm like why am I always like pushing someone's eyeballs in or ripping an adam's apple out, like how often does that? How often does that happen? Like what's going going on here? You know, like it's just a little bit, uh, I don't know, just never made much sense. And I had a great friend who is doing jujitsu at the time. He was like no, you got to do Brazilian jujitsu. So I dabbled in a few classes and whatever. Uh, and then eventually I started really actually training in 2012 was really when, like I had done a few classes before then, but like when I started, like with any kind of regularity, it was 2012,.

Speaker 1: 1:17:41

Yeah, Okay, where are you at now with your practice?

Speaker 2: 1:17:46

I'm still on the mats as often as I can be. Schedule's been a little bit crazy, so I teach a class on Friday mornings for cops, um, so yeah, I'm. I'm usually on the mat like a bad week is one time, a great week is three or four. So I'm like trying to be as much as I can still uh and create some consistency. It's not always easy with work and everything, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:18:15

How do you navigate? Um, I'm just curious, cause, like you're, you're a little bit older than me and I know what I'm going through on the mats Like I can't stand up with these. You know colleges, like 20 year old wrestlers. Cause, like I'm decent, um, I'm a guard puller.

Speaker 1: 1:18:26

Right, oh, that's what I was going to ask, Like how do you navigate your training to not just get abused by younger dudes? Like I want to keep standing up, especially because I'm still working, Like you know, I think takedowns and starting from standing is critical for law enforcement. But the volume of stand up that I can do I was like drastically lowering every day.

Speaker 2: 1:18:48

Yeah yeah, you just learn to be less athletic man. That's all I do I'm. I roll like an 80 year old right now at 48. So longevity.

Speaker 2: 1:19:00

that is the game, yeah exactly I do a lot of position anymore. Um, and I I think this needs to be like. This is a whole separate conversation about jujitsu. But, um, I go with a plan. That's really what I do. I'm I'm only working on one thing, like right now I'm working on a very particular like I'm working on escapes from half guard and side control, and I'm working on a two on one guard on my offense, like those are the two things that I'm really kind of deep diving on right now and trying to perfect, and so I don't do open, I don't perfect, and so I don't do open. I don't. I I'll do, like maybe at an open mat, one open, like totally open role. Otherwise, I'm just asking my partners like hey, can I start on the bottom and? And we just work from there and if I escape, then we reset, or if I escape, we switch positions or whatever you know, like then I'll, I just work on really specific things and that like drastically reduces some of the proclivities for injury or whatever else too.

Speaker 1: 1:20:01

So yeah, it's just much more controlled and you're actually working on new things, and that's what I found too Like, if I don't work positional stuff like that, exact like I ended up just doing the same crap that I'm good at and I never touched the stuff I suck at ever. Right, yeah, with that said, kind of like directing that back into like a law enforcement discussion, now I'm I'm sure you, you, the departments you worked on, are the exact same as everywhere, like the, the motivated cops are the ones that train, the ones that need to train. Don't ever touch it. Now, you, you being like really good with social media, marketing, messaging, branding, how can we either we as cops that are, you know, trying to reach like fitness and nutrition and stuff like that, like that's what I do Like how can we reach the ones that need it the most, that are resistant to listening, or how can and or how can, like how can, departments get the ones that really need it into training, because it doesn't happen.

Speaker 2: 1:21:03

Yeah, it says it's interesting. It's an interesting dilemma because, like, if, from a social media perspective, everything starts with the ideal client in mind, what are their pain points or what are their desired outcomes? Right, pain or pleasure is the only two motivators for human beings. So you appeal to their pain points with the solution to those things or you offer the opportunity for what they're pursuing right, so, like, it's pretty straightforward. The problem is that those ideal clients don't really exist in policing, because you can't make somebody want to be more proficient. You know, unfortunately it takes. It takes them getting their ass kicked or a terrible situation, um, and even then I've seen guys dig in and still think, well, that was just a fluke or it was because of X, y, z, it's hard.

Speaker 2: 1:22:03

I think it has to take place at an administrative level, which could be a little bit of attrition there. Like guys, the serious guys that take training like they ought to, eventually will be the bosses, right, like you hope. Right, they take the place of current administration and can, like that, culture begins to change. But until it takes place at an administrative level to where it's required, I don't know that there is going to be much of a change and there's really no excuse for it. There's no excuse that a department can't, and there is nothing that will fire cops up more than to say that there's no excuse for you to be fat and incapable Like that will make them so mad because they're fat and incapable. It's like it's just a, it's just a fact capable. It's like it's just a, it's just a fact and it's uh, you just can't, you can't make them want it, but departments could make it happen, one million percent. You could create an environment at a department where there were certain fitness standards that were minimum and tested regularly. There is no reason. That I know, because they used to call me in off the road for shooting qualifications.

Speaker 2: 1:23:21

You know, hey, car such and such report to the range, right, you go in, you put your load, your mags up, with whatever they say, you run the course, you do it. It's 30 minutes. Okay, here's your. You know, check your box. You did your qual off, you go.

Speaker 2: 1:23:35

Why can't they call a car in and go all right, uh, we're going to do pushups and sit-ups today, like you got to do. You know, 50 uninterrupted of both or whatever it is. You know, like, whatever standard you come up, why can't they do that. They a hundred, a hundred percent could, but they don't uh, they. So they could also do like hey, we're going to come in and for 15 minutes you don't have to like work up a huge sweat, but you could actually rep out some law enforcement, appropriate takedowns and cuffing, right. You could rep that out for 15 minutes and go back to the road, right.

Speaker 2: 1:24:09

Like they could do these things, admins just unwilling, because for them it's not a here's a scary truth. It's not about the safety of officers in the community for them. If they're not. I have said this to people in police administration and I'll say I mean, I have no problem taking heat for that. If you're a police, if you are, have any influence for leadership at police department and you are not requiring athletic performance and or providing and requiring defensive tactics training that's effective. You are, you are derelict, you are a danger to the profession and you are damaging it, then you're putting lives at risk and it's only a matter of time Like it's only a matter of time till you lose your ass in a lawsuit or lose your job because you didn't take the time to do what you needed to do.

Speaker 1: 1:25:06

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of stuff there that we could unpack for hours and I don't think either one of us want to do that right now. But but I think, like you know, briefly getting into it, a lot of the issue that I've seen is is many states don't have a definition, a working definition, of what fit for duty is so there. So it's like it's hard to make a standard based on no definition. That's, that's number one. So you would need to do that Like for the department that that is you're discussing and this is our standard, or you're going to go off the road and you won't be able to work part-time. It's like that'll hit people in their pocketbook and they would stay in shape based on that standard, right, you know?

Speaker 1: 1:25:48

Another issue is marketing. Like the, they need to be able to market to us and and they suck at it because, like, departments don't need to market. They're always going to exist. They can lose money every day for till eternity and they're still going to be there. But I mean, you know how, how stubborn we are as cops. It's like I need it to be my idea. So I have to figure out how to make it your idea in order to get your ass in here to train. You know what I mean. Like, like, otherwise it's just not going to happen. That's just how we roll, that's what our like, we're trained to be, that like. So you have to, you have to communicate that accordingly.

Speaker 1: 1:26:24

You know, and like you said the, that if you're in, if you're in leadership and you are not discussing this, it's such low hanging fruit for everybody. Like you are, you are derelict to the profession, for sure. And then the fact that so many people mental health is a big buzzword now and like resiliency, that kind of stuff but if you're not addressing physical health first, that's the. That's the easiest pathway to mental health is physical health and and like you don't have to, you don't have to do anything other than you know, like, talk about people's sleep and hydration, like, that's like like lowest hanging fruit for mental health. You know, you know, and it's like, if everybody listens to Andrew Huberman now, right, so, like his, his podcast is amazing and he talks about this every single time the intersection of mental health, physical health and performance is is huge, it's huge. So if you're not addressing at least some of these low hanging items, then you're not doing anything and you really only care about the perception of doing these things, not actually doing them.

Speaker 2: 1:27:28

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah, there's a. There's no doubt we need to. We need to keep the pressure on for sure and and hopefully see some changes. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:27:39

So, but the way to do that and see changes, I think is is doing it like you've done. I think you you lay out a really good roadmap to a lot of these problems and it's like we can't count on. I mean, we can bitch about departments all day, you know, but like the bottom line is is it's a government agency and it's not designed for some of that. So how do we fix this? It's like, well, we as individuals have to fill in the holes, you know what I mean and count on each other and and that's where I think the stuff you're doing is awesome, you know, like leaning into, like your skillset and developing new pathways for cops, for all of these things that we just kind of laid out quickly, but yeah, you know it's been good.

Speaker 2: 1:28:19

Um, you know, we I follow the effective fitness combatives curriculum and they're so they're, they're really, uh, contributing to changing the culture, for sure. Um, but, yeah, individual guys have to. It's like, well, my department doesn't pay for it, or my department like, well, whose responsibility is it then? What is that? Is that what your wife wants to hear when you get laid out on the street, like, is that what your kids want to hear? Is that, uh, dad didn't want to train because the department wouldn't pay for it?

Speaker 2: 1:28:53

and so he's in the hospital. Now. You know, like, what do you like? How much are you taking active responsibility for yourself? You know it's like it is what it is and most of these guys know, going in, that if they're going to get hired at department, if they're halfway smart, they know oh, they're not paying for my jiu-jitsu classes, they're not paying for this. Like well, either don't take the job there or decide to take that job with your own responsibility, to say I'm going to, I'm important enough and my family's important enough that I'll take care of it myself.

Speaker 1: 1:29:27

Yeah, well, and then and then really I've been talking about this a lot too with people is like just that, that mindset of like it is my responsibility and I have the ability to do this and take action on this, and then that will keep the frame of like that internal locus of control which is epically important for mental health, especially on the back end of, like you know, like a big fight or some shit that happens or a shooting you get into, like you've, you've, you've taken the personal control of your, of your destiny more or less, and then that helps to not only like build up before, during and after a critical incident. You know, like that's that's really really important is to keep that as, like you know, I'm in charge, I'm doing work, like it's, this is, this is me affecting, you know, my will onto the world, not the opposite way around, not being a victim yep so, um so, um.

Speaker 1: 1:30:19

well, awesome man, I don't have anything else. Uh, is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we jumped off?

Speaker 1: 1:30:25

No, we can talk about that stuff all day long, but right, right, yeah, um, so you know, I mean you got a huge following, but uh and and I don't know how many, how many people I had the last guy I talk to I was like, yeah, we might get eight views on this, Like that'd be a good day. I'm still rebuilding this podcast, so, but where can people find more about you, the 10-7 Project, that kind of stuff?

Speaker 2: 1:30:49

Yeah, I mean as far as the 10-7 Project goes, it's T-E-N, the spelled out the number seven, 10-7projectcom. You can reach out if you got questions about it on Instagram. If you look up Mike the cop on Instagram, I'll be.

Speaker 1: 1:31:07

I should be the first search, there's another guy that hates my guts. That goes by Mike the cop too.

Speaker 2: 1:31:10

He's a retired NYPD guy. He hates me. He's out there, yeah. But so, yeah, if you ask him about me, I mean maybe he'll tell you what he thinks, I don't know. But yeah, you'll find me on. Instagram is a great place to DM me. I'm I'm most active there. You know, my name is Mike Edwards. You can find me on Facebook too. I think my Facebook username is 10 seven, Mike, and so that's my personal page. You want to follow me there? I don't, I don't care. I'm pretty much an open book. I don't hide so well, cool man.

Speaker 1: 1:31:35

Well, thanks a ton. I appreciate your time and, uh, you know, like anything you ever need like, hit me up if I can help at all. I'm not, I'm. I'm honestly like a couple hours away from now, so yeah, man, likewise, just reach out.

Speaker 2: 1:31:45

whatever, you got my number.

Speaker 1: 1:31:48

Well, thanks man, all right, See ya.