Heroic Nation Podcast
The ONLY podcast addressing Physical Health and Mental Health for First Responders.
Host:
Anthony Shefferly
-Full time Police/SWAT (16+ years)
-Master's in Science: Psychology
-Tactical Strength & Conditioning
Owner Heroic Fitness/CrossFit Tactical Strength
College Football/CrossFit Regionals/BJJ/Kettlebells
Heroic Nation Podcast
Martial Arts, Tactical Shooting, and Breakdancing: Nolan Meeks on Revolutionizing Training and Law Enforcement
How can the blend of martial arts, breakdancing, and parkour revolutionize tactical shooting? Join us as we welcome Nolan Meeks, the talented video producer at Tacticon Armament, to explore this fascinating intersection. Nolan takes us behind the scenes of Tacticon, highlighting their mission to create top-notch, combat-ready tactical gear that caters to both men and women. He shares his personal journey in shooting and offers insightful perspectives on the Second Amendment, gun laws, and the broader political landscape. You'll also hear about Tacticon's innovative products and their strong social media presence, including a must-see pinned video on Instagram.
Ever wondered how the principles of movement in Kenpo karate can enhance your shooting skills? In this episode, we chat with a martial artist turned firearms expert who combines the structured movements of karate with the fluidity of breakdancing and parkour. By drawing parallels with weightlifting and running, we discuss the universal principles of effective movement and training. The conversation critiques the complexity of some law enforcement training exercises, advocating for simplicity to boost efficiency and effectiveness. Expect some lighthearted moments, like a humorous tale about a no-handed cartwheel gone wrong during a handgun transition drill.
We wrap up with a deep dive into law enforcement, moral boundaries, and personal responsibility in a society governed by intricate laws. From comparing law enforcement to parenting to examining the motivations behind joining the police force, this thought-provoking discussion challenges preconceived notions and highlights the need for continuous, well-rounded training. We also explore the hero's journey in literature and its parallels to our own lives, emphasizing the importance of confronting fears and taking risks for personal growth. Don't miss the final thoughts on Tacticon's mission and the impact of social media algorithms on the 2A community. This episode promises to be a compelling listen from start to finish.
Hi, welcome to another episode of the Heroic Nation podcast and, in case you were not aware, this is the greatest podcast ever to be recorded in the history of all podcasts. So and today was actually the greatest episode of any podcast we've ever done. So this is like this is the greatest of the greatest episode of any podcast we've ever done. So this is the greatest of the greatest. So you know, I can't understate the greatness of this show or overstate whatever makes more sense. Anyway, all right.
Speaker 1:So I talked to today Nolan from Tacticon Armament and Nolan Meeks. Nolan is the video producer, technically, of Tacticon Armament, but if you watch any of their Instagram, which I would strongly recommend checking out Tacticon Armament those videos are amazing and their social media presence is fantastic. You have to. We talked about this at length, but that first video that they have pinned to the top of the page is so cool you just got to go check it out. It is so cool. So, anyway, we talked a lot about his shooting, his background, nolan's. You know what he does for Tacticon, what Tacticon stands for, and this is straight off of their website. Actually, I'm going to read this to you Tacticon Armament is a combat veteran owned company that believes in outfitting both men and women with comfortable, effective and combat ready tactical gear.
Speaker 1:Our catalog is curated, curated combination of original, patent, patented products and tactical gear, enhanced to include features requested for our customers. We hope you enjoy all the efforts we put forth to improve upon our products, our service and ourselves. And, yeah, a really cool company. No one was awesome to talk to.
Speaker 1:He's got such a great stance on um, on politics and and you know second amendment and constitutional rights and that kind of stuff we talked about, uh, how law enforcement plays into that conversation. You know, as far as you know, like pro 2a, there's a lot of there's a lot of gray with this and you know, like gun laws and what's constitutional, what's not, and they're a really cool conversation based on all of those things, because that's another thing. If you listen to their podcast, the 2A Procast, they've got a lot of opinions on politics, which everyone does, and we discussed a lot of them. So some of it we overlapped on a lot of it and then some of it it was a little nuanced. So it was really cool stuff. But yeah, check it out and let me know what you think.
Speaker 2:There we go. All right, I got secondary audio for you too, so I'll send that over to you. Perfect, you can overlay that if I sound a little fuzzy or groggy at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, I'm sure I won't know what to do with it, but I'll have it. Hey, you'll have it. That's the important part, right? Yeah, close is good enough with this stuff, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:I honestly have no clue what I'm doing. I just know that I like doing these and it's kind of entertaining to some people.
Speaker 2:Hey, as long as you like doing it, it doesn't matter. That's the biggest thing I've learned. It doesn't matter if you know what you're doing or not. You fall into your own little kind of. You fall into your own little niche. You fall into, kind of the way you do things and people just come along or not, or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I just keep doing podcasts for like eight people and like I always, I always say at the beginning of every show I do an intro and this is literally the best podcast like that's ever been created and and like people don't understand that, like people they just haven't realized it yet, but it is literally the greatest podcast. So you are on, whether you know it or not, like the world's greatest podcast.
Speaker 2:So that's a pretty big I'm. I'm stoked, all right.
Speaker 1:I feel like I've got big shoes to to fit in here now, man, so so I actually stole that from. Uh, you ever watched Conan O'Brien, like back in the day?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So he used to open every show yeah, it's the greatest show we've ever done. I know I say that every night. But it's the greatest show.
Speaker 2:Hey, it's a great way to set up the. It's a great way to set up the mindset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, positive framing 100% absolutely well, dude, thanks for jumping on with some rando internet guy that messaged you at at like on a tuesday after I was talking about you on the range with some dudes on the SWAT team.
Speaker 2:So hell yeah, dude. Well, thanks for having me on and thanks for bearing with my horrible, horrible replying yeah, that's all good, I am the worst.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, like the internet, everything is so crazy now. Like, how old are you? I'm 28 years old, so like I'm 42. So like back in the day, like communicating was a different thing, and now it's like like my kids don't even text, they're like texting old people. I'm like, are you fucking out of your mind?
Speaker 2:Is it all?
Speaker 1:just like Snapchat and all, yeah, all just social media and it's, oh my god, so keeping up with it's pain in the ass and that's how I know I'm getting old, but uh, but I but yeah, it's no big deal, so, um so anyway, dude, so I've watched your, uh, the stuff on tacticon and like just to that, that first video that you guys have pinned of you doing the oh yeah, yeah think that's got 6,200 shares or something like that.
Speaker 1:I just looked at it and then I was looking at, I was looking at, uh at at my usage of that, like sending that video, and I think I've sent 3,000 of them, so just, well, well, thank you very much, sir.
Speaker 2:I that was. That was a labor of love that Whenever I produce a video, there's always like if it's a sales video. To be quite frank, I'm not as pumped about making sales videos. They're my least favorite out of the things to make. I enjoy giving people entertainment. I enjoy trying to make people smile. That's what drives kind of most of my video video creation. I want to inspire somebody somehow some way Right. And so when I take a sales video, even though that one wasn't, I try and kind of incorporate that same thing. So when, when somebody comes up and tells me they love that video, I'm like, yes, I did something right. Yes, I did it.
Speaker 1:Well, it was so good. I don't I. And like, just to be totally honest, like I'm I'm more of like a fitness jujitsu dude, like my gun is limited to like what I know from law enforcement, like I'm not a super gun gun geek about stuff, but the fact that you, the fact that you included a dude that you know, the way that you tagged uh, whatever his name was like, was just so, just like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jab you a little bit, but I'm not gonna be a total asshole about it. Like well, and then the way you tag, like that last quote at the end, like tied everything together so well, because it was the Van Wilder quote, like right, don't take yourself so serious.
Speaker 2:Like you ain't getting out of this alive, like we're all going to like, yeah, that that has been one of the bigger, that's been one of the bigger uh self actualizations that I've kind of had to to realize. When I was, when I was, I'll say, younger, but you know, I'm I'm still 28 years young Uh, when I was around 18, 19, I was dating this uh, really hippie girl, and so that like kind of drove me down the rabbit hole of like, oh, watch out for all these seed oils and you know all the uh, the hippie rabbit hole, right, everything's going to kill you. You have to eat lettuce every day, and you know. So that led me down that rabbit hole and just as I've been getting older, I'm like, hey, it's okay, like I don't have to be this gnarly, I should take care of myself, but I don't have to just like if I do this, I'm going to die.
Speaker 1:Well, just wait until you have, like, if you, if you end up having kids I don't know, do you have any kids at all so not yet working on it. So so, like you'll find that your first kid is like, oh my God, everything is terrible, like you're afraid to put them in a car seat and like you've got to make sure. Like they got a full, like baby Hans device and they can't move, they're locked in. And then by the time, like I had my fourth kid, they're just like chuck them in a bucket, put them in a seat and let's drive away. Maybe a seat belts on, I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, they got a. They got a foam noodle with them. They'll be good.
Speaker 1:It'll be okay, probably. So, um, yeah, so all right, so not to get too ahead of ourselves. So, like watching your videos, like what, what's your background Cause most, um, most like people in the gun space, I feel like in the tactical space have, uh, like military or like law enforcement. Do you have any of that? Like, where do you come from? How did you learn the stuff that you're doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. So I have zero military, zero law enforcement background. I have family that was in the military, but they're all like my uncles who are Vietnam war vets. So it's not like I was like, oh yeah, watching these G-WAT dudes like firsthand, like train out of the range or anything. But my background comes straight from martial arts.
Speaker 2:So when I was about 10 years old I'm a weird homeschool kid, super antisocial, you know so my mom was like, hey, listen, you need to get out of the house. You're driving me, me nuts. You need to get into some sort of sport. And I was like that sounds super dumb. Why would I do that when I've got my home and my dogs here? And so we ended up looking through, uh, the yellow pages and she was like, how does basketball sound? I'm like stupid, she's all. How does baseball sound? I'm like that sounds dumb, she's all soccer. I'm like I'm not a grass fairy, mom. And she goes how does martial arts sound? And I was like, are you kidding me? Of course I want to be a Ninja turtle like that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And so, um, I started at 10 years old and then I haven't stopped. I got into Kenpo karate. So it's a hard style, um, japanese striking martial art, so a lot of just like rigid movements which kind of set me up for for more of the shooting application, because shooting is very much in its basis. It's a hard transition. It's a hard like you punch out, go to work, right, you know little king picks. And so I did that for a while. And then when I was about like seven, 16, 16, 15, 16 area, I met a couple of guys that danced at the dance studio next to my karate studio and I got introduced into break dancing and so that kind of like evolved, the flow of, of what eventually became my shooting as well as my martial arts. And then I started getting into parkour, started doing flips at the gym, started hanging out with the gymnastics girls, so I was like that is pretty much my background.
Speaker 2:And then I took all of everything that I knew from the discipline of karate and watched a lot of shooters, watched, um, you know, stoger, I watched a lot of competition shooters. I watched uh, what's his name? I'm blanking on his name. He used to shoot for Springfield, um, out of my brain, um, but Jerry Michalak, I would watch these guys and I I've always been a very visual learner, so I just kind of put that into my repertoire. I'd watch them, I'd watch how they transition, I'd watch how they move, how they do their reloads, and I just kind of kept watching and watching and watching, um, and then just applied that from my martial arts and went, and then just applied that from my martial arts and went what is the economy of motion in this? And do I have extra movements? Do I have wasted movement? What can I trim? What seems logical and what doesn't? And that's basically where I come from and how I got to this point.
Speaker 1:That's really cool. So I really like the way that you took the hard style karate with the, like you said, the lines and the structure and then make that connection, a lot of that same connection that I've done with with lifting Right, so like weightlifting, especially like going overhead. You know you're supporting a load like a triangle right, it's gotta be and if you get too short or long on one side, you're not going to support the weight overhead.
Speaker 1:It's going to tip. Looking at the deeper, I got into, uh, like firearms training. I'm like, oh, like dudes are coming back from all these courses and they're saying like, hey, you need to have have this style of, of, like foot out further and this kind of stuff. And I'm like, oh, it's the exact same as weightlifting, like it is the same structure. And then I made that kind of same connection. Uh, kind of same connection. Uh, I didn't take a lot of karate, but I know enough about stances where I'm like, oh, like this position overhead, this position here, is this position, is this position, like it's all, it's all positionally the same. And then, if you get into even stuff like, um, oh, like pose running, like are you familiar with that at all?
Speaker 2:I'm not. That sounds familiar, but I don't think I know what it is.
Speaker 1:So the concept of pose running is really cool, and I can't remember there's a lot of people that have used that term for it, but it's basically like as you run you hit different poses and as you speed up these poses you just increase your cyclic rate and then OK so I'm looking at like, like structurally, from all this other stuff, like, oh, you're just hitting all these poses and just using them differently based on what you feel like doing that day. You know what.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, no, that that makes total sense. It really is. And like I like to try to look at stuff as philosophically and as like structurally as I can, and so when you get down to it, it's just, it's just another martial art, same with weightlifting, like you were saying, even though it's less of a destructive art. It is. In my kind of twisted brain, it is a martial art.
Speaker 2:You have to know your forms, you have to know your stances, you have to know where your elbow is supposed to be positioned when you do that bench press so you don't tear your chest. And it's the same thing with shooting. Where's your foot position? Are you on the ball of your foot? Are you flat footed? Is your, is your coccyx leaning under? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the, uh, the, the best phrase. I can't remember who said this, either. It might've been like Kelly Starrett or some physical therapist, um, but it's, it's movement practice. You know what I mean. Like it's all practice Now, what we do with that movement, whether it's going to be, you know, firearms and fighting and whatever, or lifting, like, but it's, we only have the capacity to make so many shapes, you know, and even in parkour, watch the, watch, the, the shapes that you make while transitioning from things You're like, oh well, that's very similar to you know, all this other stuff in wrestling and gymnastics and parkour, and like those poses, like those are, those are similar as well. So, you know, you, and you can break it down like philosophically, I think, as far as like, like all right, external load versus gymnastics based body, body only right, Cause you, you have to create the tension in different ways, you know, but the principle of tension is still there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, cool man, that's. That's really really cool. Economy of motion is is is a big one. That that I'm always looking at too with with like, how do you just make this as simple as possible, especially for, like law enforcement, you know, cause there there's a lot of wasted everything everywhere, and then it it it really sucks with with tactics. I feel like cause, like all the time you're seeing, especially in law enforcement, like we get bombarded with like oh, here's the new way to enter a room, here's the new way to to like shoulder a rifle from different positions.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like what is the simplest way to get to like shoulder a rifle from different?
Speaker 2:positions Right, like, what is the simplest way to get from point A to point B here Exactly? Yeah, it's I'll. I'll see it a lot if I'm training people or if, um, or if I'm watching stuff online, I'll see. You know, different online trainers be like oh, you need to do this.
Speaker 2:And I look at it and I kind of take the Glock perspective. Like when Glock first came out, everybody was super, super pumped because it was this super simple handgun with almost no parts. They were like wow, it's so revolutionary, it's got like six moving parts. And then I I kind of extrapolated that into, like, like you were saying, tactics and and and training, and I go, okay, why do we have 80 moving parts in this? That doesn't make sense. I'm not that smart. I'm not going to be able to figure this out. How do I streamline that? So, yeah, it's very interesting. You watch a lot of trainers online and they're like okay, first you need to get into this position and then you need to move into this position. It's like can I just skip a couple of those and go from A to B?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then if you look, go to that pose concept again, it's like some of that stuff is like all right, you're going from, let's say, like here to here and like this is pose one, this is pose two, it's an up drill, right, right, you don't need to go outside of that to create some more piece to add to it.
Speaker 2:Right, there's a lot. There's a lot, exactly Right. There's a lot of creating something to create something. Right, they're trying to make a new drill just to have a new drill. Right, and it's like, ok, but what is this fundamentally changing? Drill, right, and it's like, okay, but what is this fundamentally changing? Sure, if you just want to do something different, absolutely go for it, but let's not, let's not take away that just a simple up bill drill is is really what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I liked that we're having this conversation, and if we go back to that first video, the first thing is you doing a no-handed cartwheel, giving double fingers and adding in yes, sir, but not to keep going back to that, but this sometimes it jumps into my head when you're doing the handgun transition and you chuck. You chuck the handgun at the dummy and then, like, gave it a DDT or something like that. Anyway. So, thank you, sir, thank you. So how did you go from from being, like you know, dating hippie chicks eating lettuce into like pro 2A, like super, you know, like other side of the coin?
Speaker 2:So that was always kind of a part of me From growing up. My dad is very much hey, don't tell me what to do, I'm just going to do it, okay. I remember I remember one time we have a uh, we have a garage, a separated garage from my parents' house that we converted into a living space, and he had some insurance people coming out to do some insurance stuff on the house and he goes hey, when they get here, lock the doors and close the blinds. This doesn't exist and I said, gotcha. Now this explains a lot to me. But you know my dad, my dad took me shooting when I was young, started out with BB guns, went to 22 shooting, soda cans and shotgun shells and then went to shoot and skeet and then eventually to my first real like rifle and then handguns. So it's always kind of been in there.
Speaker 2:My dad's kind of always instilled in me this like hey, you need to take care of yourself, nobody's going to take care of you. Like you can't rely on other people to do that. This is what you have to do to be a man. So he kind of always instilled that in me. I always loved listening to my uncle's stories about Vietnam and when he would tell them to me.
Speaker 2:Um, I always loved listening to my uncle's stories, uh, about vietnam and when he would tell them to me and he always he did some secret squirrel stuff after his uh, after his uh, deployment out in vietnam with the marines. So he would always be like I could tell you but I have to kill you. So it was like always like in my little kid brain I'm like, oh, he's so cool, so like, even though while I was dating hippie chicks and eating lettuce that was that was still in there I always was like, hey, that's great that you love peace and love, but I understand the violence of man so great yeah, well, in in college I I totally get where you're coming from.
Speaker 1:in college I wasn't like hippie chick, like I played college football and stuff, but I but I was really into like heavy metal scene, you know, going to concerts, like kind of living in the world, and I was like the whole time I'm looking at it and I'm like you know you can listen to really heavy music and be angry about oppression and whatever else people are griping about and and also be like a good human being who agrees with like the overarching structure of this country. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Just because one thing is broke doesn't mean everything sucks.
Speaker 1:Yes, a hundred percent. And that's not to get off topic or anything, but I was listening to a podcast that Jordan Peterson did with Matt Walsh on his new movie, which looks amazingly, hilariously informative. Have you seen what he's doing now?
Speaker 2:I saw what is a Woman. That's Matt Walsh right. Yes, yeah, same Okay.
Speaker 1:So his new thing he's doing I think it comes out this week is called Am I Racist?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's going to be so good.
Speaker 1:And they did some big stuff. But I'm listening to this podcast and I'm like, oh, I understand now. Like the argument for like the neo-Marxist and stuff is like everything's broken, burn it all down, we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater and this is the vessel that we're going to use to do it. You know, yeah, and that's like and I've heard other people say this too you know, there there's an overarching structure in society that we all kind of have to agree upon and like it's already written, so like we don't have like you know what I mean. Yeah, like let's just keep using that, let's fix and modify based on today's standards and stuff, but the structure has to be agreed upon, you know and yeah, the, the founding fathers.
Speaker 2:They really wrote out a great document. A lot of people don't go back and reread the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution very much anymore, like it's not really taught in schools as much anymore and it's like when you read that you really get like this baseline understanding of what they had envisioned for the country and what they had envisioned for their fellow man. And like when you're talking about those like neo, neo Marxists or these extremists, I find it always comes from this point of like. I truly try and believe that everybody really wants the best. I believe that everybody just wants a better world. I believe that everybody wants to be happy and just be safe, and I think just a lot of people get very confused.
Speaker 2:And again, who am I to tell someone who's right and wrong? Right, it's my worldview versus their worldview. I like to believe that mine's a little bit better because it doesn't require violence towards other people, but you know it's. I think they just really want to make a better world. I don't, I don't. I know this started from neo-Marxist, so let me just say I don't condone anything they're doing, but it's, it's all. It all comes from that place and it just gets twisted and contorted into this extremism, like I have to do this to make the world better, because they get that twisted in their brain Right and I think they're on like this kind of crazy mission that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of it that I see is like it is a hundred percent what you said, like the desire to be safe, right, I think that is an underlying thing that our, that, our, that our psyche does physically and emotionally and mentally, like it is a desire to keep us like safe from damage, right, whatever that is.
Speaker 1:And uh, and then where, where things get sideways, is like all right, like there is no physical threat to me. Right now, sitting in my basement studio, you know doing, right next to my kids Legos and my you know dumb dog sleeping on beanbag chair, next to my kids Legos and my you know dumb dog sleeping on beanbag chair, like I'm not worried about anything right now physically. So if, if you go through too much time like that, like your, your body and your mind is designed to see threats and keep you safe, so you're going to start inventing them based on stories, right, and then all of a sudden things go all kinds of crazy because you're fighting battles that don't need to be fought in ways that they, that you shouldn't be doing. You know you're creating problems, you know you're borrowing stress like that, like you know, and they just people don't have the insight to assess and step back, and then they get very dogmatic, you know right it's.
Speaker 2:It's very dangerous. I like how you said uh. I like how you said uh. I like how you said that like you kind of borrow and you create that Cause. It's very true.
Speaker 2:I, the people like whether they're in hardworking jobs, like construction jobs, or they embrace the suck through training, like they go out and do martial arts, jujitsu. You're aware that you said you did jujitsu right. You're aware of the suck in jujitsu, um, or, you know, doing some sort of law enforcement or some sort of job. That puts them in a stressful situation where they have to work hard, they have to put in the hours and they have to embrace that shitty. They got to get the grit right and they get that out of their system in the day. They're the most chill people I've ever met, but somebody who you know lives in a sky rise apartment or even just like in a little townhouse. They go to their job, they come home and that's their life. They're very concerned and they're very on edge. But at least from the people that I have met through my life, that's just personal experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. So there's a. I'm drawing a blank now as well, but there's a really good book that talks about this. God author's last name is Eldridge Wild at Heart, that's what it is. It's an older book, but it is all about embracing the call for adventure.
Speaker 1:You know, and if you don't, if you don't do that and like a big thing that that, like I'm totally into for many reasons and I and I believe that this, this is, is a is a universal thread throughout life, right, is this concept of the hero's journey? And if you ignore, like that's part of the journey is ignoring the call to adventure and saying no to it, like you have to go through that, and if that knocks loud enough and you keep ignoring it, it's gonna cause you major problems, you know. And that's when you start to like, look for this adventure in spots where it's like no, no, no, you missed it. Like you gotta go back and look harder. You got to listen to something different. This is not like you're. Like I said, you're inventing and borrowing and creating these problems so you can have an adventure when really you just need to go and find the real adventure and you're just kind of skipping it.
Speaker 2:Right, right, I'm so happy you brought that up. It brought immediately into my brain Tolkien, when he writes the hobbit, you know he has exactly that adventure comes knocking and he ignores it, and he ignores it, and he ignores it. And finally, you know, the uh, the dwarves and and gandalf come to his house. They give him this offer and he ignores it. He says nope, not gonna do it. And then he wakes up the next day and he's yearning for it. Then he's like I can't miss out on this, I have to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, and then and then you look at like literary stories and movies and that kind of stuff Like the. The easiest connection with the hero journey is star Wars, you know you look at Luke Skywalker and the way he transitions through all of that and you're like oh, this is like. This is the hero's journey, like it looks like he.
Speaker 1:They wrote this based on joseph campbell's work, you know right, yeah, it is text finding finding, yeah, yeah, but finding that in our own lives, like that, is hard, but knowing that this is the structure, like this is the cycle. These are the points I'm going to go through, or probably will. It's going to look something like this Then you can keep your eyes open a little bit more, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, I find it too. You know, if you envelop into kind of that pessimistic attitude, you'll start looking at your as you're, at your struggles, as down points in your life, and you look at them as consequences and why me's right, rather than looking at them as this is leading to a better thing, this is leading to that next door opening. This is leading to the climax of the story, or at least this part of the story of this chapter. Right, this part of the story of this chapter? Right, there's, there's always, uh, there's always a bad spot before the hero triumphs over the villain. Right, there's always that concern. There's always that is the hero going to fail?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, and that's part of it too, and I I always talk about that with, like, the clients that I coach and the guys I'm working with, especially where it's like, listen, it's not a question of like when or if the struggle is going to come and if it's going to suck at some point, like you know it's going to. Like you're, you're embarking on this thing and this process, for whatever it is, you know whether it's like firearms training or, or combat, or police work, or, you know, getting in better shape. Like it doesn't matter. In better shape, like it doesn't matter. Uh, you know that there's going to come a point when you're going to ram into a problem and you have to fight through it. Like that is part of the journey, right? So get ready for it.
Speaker 1:And that's the fun part. That's always the part that everybody will see in the movies, too. Exactly, we want to see the battle. You don't want to see the downtime downtime's boring, downtime's boring. Like. We want the fight, yeah, like, like, everybody wants the fight. That's why, that's why the shit in the movies is that's the greatest part that everybody talks about is the fights, right? So, like, get ready for the fight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Nobody. Nobody wants to watch the hours that you actually, what was that?
Speaker 1:Right, oh no, I was just gonna say you actually, I think, mentioned something like this in your last podcast that you guys did where, where you were talking about the, the notion of, like you know, you're a pussy for not doing XYZ, whatever, like you said, hey, it's, it's not I'm gonna berate you, but I'm just gonna say, like, if you're ignoring this call, like fuck you for not trying. And that was really really good thank you, man.
Speaker 2:I wish I could take credit for that. Uh, my barber actually told me he saw that off a video. I'm not sure who uh gets the credit for that, um, but it uh, it's not me, me, but it is. It is true, it's just like one of the that and I, I, I used to listen to this uh, like hour and a half motivational speech in the gym on repeat. Um, and there was a part in this speech and I'm trying to remember who.
Speaker 2:Somebody is going to berate me in your comments, which is OK, but it's this guy. He's given this speech and he says that you're lying on your deathbed and all of your dreams, all of your talents, are standing around you, staring at you and looking at you, saying we came to you to give us life, and that, just like that hits me in my core, like thinking about that, like laying on my deathbed and thinking about all that I could have been Right, and so I know negative or um, I think if it is positive telling somebody to get up off their ass and stop being a bitch to you know, hey, go get it. But a lot of people don't respond well to that. So like something I'll do with my wife is something very similar. I'll be like, hey, you'll regret just not even trying, like shame on you for just not even trying, cause she doesn't like to fail at new things. Nobody does, right.
Speaker 2:So it's, it's one of those things. I'll look at her and I'll say the exact same thing. I'm like shame on you for not trying. You might like it, right. You might like doing new sport. You might like trying new hobby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a that. That's something I tell my kids too. I'm like, listen, you can't just stay in here and hide Everything. Fun is worth the risk you have to risk in order to receive that. And really there's been so many studies from psychology where people are on their deathbeds and it's like, well, what do you regret? And it's always the stuff that you didn't do, not the stuff you did. You know it's like I wish I would have done more of this. I wish it would have, you know, like filled in more life, like added more life to to your life, you know, and not just like watched it by.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's that's such a that's such a big thing is. People always regret the things they didn't do. Like there is a very I feel you know, being 28 years old as I am, but like even looking at my life now, I'm like I made some bad calls, but I don't look at it and go. I regret that it brought me to this point. You know what I mean. Like maybe I would change it If I could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hindsight being 2020, like I definitely would have chosen different things but, at the same time, I would not have learned what I needed to learn at that moment and and become who I needed to become you know exactly yeah, so um, shifting gears a little bit.
Speaker 1:I think you said that you used that quote and then you guys talked about um some. I want to go to some stuff specifically about tactic on um and just get some clarity around that and kind of talk about that for a minute. Um, like you said that in regards to the, the pro, the two-way pro course, yes, I say that right yeah okay, so.
Speaker 1:So let's start with like tacticon and like what is tacticon's mission? How did, how did? Are you an owner of that or are you, uh, in a? What's your role in the company, I guess?
Speaker 2:so I'm not an owner technically, I am an employee. Um, I you know jake, jake is the owner, he's, he's the sole owner, which is, which is cool. But he always says it's a partnership, which is cool Because when I first started with him, it was when this company had four employees and I was making holsters out of a tiny little, tiny little warehouse space, you know, not not too much bigger than like a studio apartment, and so it started from there. I am very, uh, trying to think of a good word for it. I guess I'll just go with autistic, but, um, I like to use my brain, I like to be very imaginative, I like to be creative, um, I like to tackle new tasks all the time. And so I started talking to him. I was like, hey, I've always wanted to do professional shooting, I've always wanted to make videos. Do you, will you allow me to do that for you? Like, I can create a social media for Tacticon, I can start maybe doing professional shooting for Tacticon.
Speaker 2:And at this point in time he was like maybe doing professional shooting for Tacticon. And at this point in time he was like we're not really there, we can't do that, like, we don't have the funds to be able to support that we're doing this. And at the time I was traveling three hours from Redding, california to Rancho Cordova in Sacramento here. So I would drive three hours, stay at the shop for like three, four days, bump out 12 to 15 hour days and then go home. Um, and that was just starting to take a toll on me. So I said, hey, man, all due respect, I love you. I want to work with you again at some point in the future, especially if we can get like media rolling. I was like, but right now I gotta, I gotta move on to other other things, not necessarily greener pastures, but just other things. I gotta keep my brain going. Um, he, greener pastures, but just other things. I got to keep my brain going. He was very understanding and then a couple of years later he hits me up and he's like hey, you ready to do some social media? I was like, hell, yeah, dude, let's go. But that's how I kind of got involved with it. And he kind of said, hey, like I know that you're going to be learning media and I'm going to be learning it as well. So I understand it's going to take time. Just do what you feel like you need to do and just learn and do right by me, and I was like, okay, no problem. So from there I just kind of, you know, tried my best, learned what I could, and that's why people think that I'm a owner is because it's a lot of my face in the videos Long, long explanation of why I'm not an owner.
Speaker 2:But to the question of what is Tacticon and what, what Tacticon's mission is. So we here, our goal is as crazy as it sounds. We're not here to necessarily be the best of the best with equipment. We want to provide a quality and affordable product for the American citizen. We want to make sure that every American citizen who wants to exercise their Second Amendment rights can do that. And you know that is pretty much the whole goal behind it.
Speaker 2:So everything we do, we try and base it off of that.
Speaker 2:Like is this going to be able to?
Speaker 2:Are we going to be able to hit a price point that's good enough to where somebody can afford this?
Speaker 2:Is this going to break someone's bank if they have to buy this right?
Speaker 2:So that's pretty much the whole, the entire goal with Tacticon, and that has just bled into the other things that we're creating, like the 2A Pro course that is built for creating businesses within the Second Amendment space, and Jake runs the students through how to navigate a lot of e-commerce, especially with the digital platform. And how to navigate a lot of e-commerce, especially with the digital platform, and how to avoid the pitfalls that are like, for example, your payment process or turning you off because they don't like what you're selling. Shopify will do that. If you're selling specific to a related products, like, they'll just shut off your income flow. Um, different website hosts will shut down your website If they're not a fan of it, being able to skirt around Google, ppc and YouTube ads and all that stuff. So that's kind of where 2A Pro comes from in that and so everything that's involved in that Tacticon. 2a sphere is just trying to uplift the second amendment and trying to be able to make it affordable and available to everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would say that that, like, those issues are not just specific to 2a but very specific to like certain political, uh, like identities, if you will. Yeah, anyway, cause, like I know, as a like I've made some posts and just being a cop in uniform posting stuff about fitness, all of a sudden I'm like why did I only get two views on this? You know what I mean. Like it's kind of the same thing. Like they see these algorithms, see and hear discussions probably like this, where it's like yeah, guns, whatever, like you know, cop, police, body armor, boom Black it out.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah Well, they view it as a form of extremism, kind of is what I'm kind of noticing with the algorithm and like with with how the social media companies kind of address it. Um, at least on my end and what I've kind of seen, it's the same thing. Like we'll see, um, we'll see extremist videos from the other side, right, and we'll be like well, they're allowed on here, and it's like no, no, it's the ones that slip through, like the videos of ours that slip through. You know what I mean when, when a video of ours doesn't get shadow banned or doesn't get demonetized or something like that, it's kind of like the same thing. It's like they view it kind of in the same realm, even though ours is constitutionally protected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I mean you get on rabbit holes of like, hey, who's running these companies that are in charge of this stuff? Who's actually making the algorithms that are that are seeing the extremism and certain things are being coded as that even though they are not. And uh, playing loose and fast with uh semantics and vocabulary is another thing it always comes back to black rock vanguard state street yeah, always it always lives back.
Speaker 1:I mean you really, you really can break it down like for sure, um, yeah, that that's yeah. It's crazy. You start looking at like ownership of all this stuff and who's got all the pull, and it's like, how's it always go back to this this? You know this deep state. You know like people like the same people over and over and over again, Right.
Speaker 2:Right, I just did a. I I did a podcast recently with Jake and a tack it and we kind of covered that. We covered like a lot of the entities in the two a space as well as just like outside of the two a space and it all comes back to like those big three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's nuts Like you. Look at the people that own all of those companies and it's like all right, there's left-wing own, they own left-wing stuff, they own right wing stuff, they own moderate stuff Like they own all of it.
Speaker 1:They own all of it and if you look at it, you're like wait. So they make money from all sides and they're just poking at us and making like these guys get mad at these guys and these guys yell at these guys so that everybody buys more of this stuff and that stuff, and then they're making money off all of us.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, it's 1984, man, I feel dumb. Yeah, it's like when you realize that 1984 is the reality you're living in. It's like, oh, it hits hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, spoiler alert, don't go to the end of that book Like, yeah, oh, he just goes with the program, okay, I guess Big sad. Oh, he just goes with the program, okay. I guess. Big sad. So like taking kind of a still staying in politics because I'm interested in what your like honest opinion of some things are. I feel like you like, based on the podcast I've seen and stuff like I would call you and correct me if I'm wrong more libertarian than than anything Is that. Would you agree or not?
Speaker 2:What? Yeah, me being my, my strange self. I don't necessarily like to put myself with inside of a label, because there's extremists in every group and they ruin everything. Just like you have extremists in the liberal camp, you have extremists in the Democratic camp, you have extremists in the democratic camp, you have them in the conservative camp, everywhere, and it's just like, wow, thanks guys for ruining this for everyone. But ultimately, when you break it down, I do like I do fall under more of the traditional kind of libertarian ideals. I believe in personal accountability, personal responsibility as well as personal liberties. I don't think, I do not believe that the wants of the many outweigh the needs of the one right, and so I kind of put my worldview through that. Because I always like to check myself back and go, because I always like to check myself back and go, who am I to impose my will on somebody else who does not want it Right?
Speaker 1:So it kind of falls back into that, like I just yeah, and so for the most part, I agree with that statement. There's a there's a lot of of uh, there's a lot of of gray area within it.
Speaker 1:So much nuance, so much nuance, right, uh, but so, as being a cop, right and having some of those same same views, uh, I had a drastic kind of shift in the way I saw police work in like 2020. Um so, before I kind of get into that, like, what is your view on law enforcement? What is your view on, like gun laws specifically, because there are some gun laws that you know most cops are pro 2A and they feel the same way that I do about most things Right, like I'm not an anomaly, you know, right, yeah, but we do still enforce gun laws. So what are your views on any gun laws, some gun laws, like you know, generally speaking, that's a great question, that is a good one and I'm so happy.
Speaker 2:I'm happy that I'm talking to a law enforcement officer with us, because this is fantastic. So let's start kind of with the first part there, how I view law enforcement. When I was younger, I was definitely much more brash and much more extremist.
Speaker 1:I was like we don't need cops. Cops are stupid.
Speaker 2:And then I looked at society and I'm like, oh no, dude, there is a need for cops, like there's a big need for cops. So to a degree I am pro-law enforcement. I believe that law enforcement is a good thing, the laws that you guys sometimes have to enforce. There's where the nuance starts to break in, because there are a lot of laws written in by lawyers who it's just, in my opinion, is a money grab, and I know there are officers like you who go, yeah, I'm not going to do that right, that's not morally right and it is my job to judge if that is a morally right law to enforce. That isn't the case all the time.
Speaker 2:Now, once it goes into gun laws, it's hard because I was I was thinking about this the other day and it's unfortunate because the position that we're in it almost forces a semi-extremism in the Second Amendment category, because I can, as a rational human being, or what I like to believe might be a rational human being, I can look at gun laws and go, hey, you know, maybe that guy shouldn't own a firearm, maybe right.
Speaker 2:But then, on the same degree, I have to go. He has the right to defend himself, whether I like it or not, whether it puts me at danger or not. There comes the libertarian part again and you know, whether we have it's almost like we have to take that no compromise approach because people are so ready to grab it away. If you give up an inch, you give up a mile right. So in a roundabout answer, I am very against almost all gun laws. To that degree I do understand why officers have to enforce them. There are some times that I look at it and I question the officer, but that's part of part of being in the public purview. I do things that are questioned by many people. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, so, so, yeah, so like a lot of gray area there. So much, so much gray area. So like, just to before I get into specifics, like my, my view in in, like definitely prior to 2020, but definitely when I've been on working as a cop since like 2007. So like and I think this is part of just being a young cop wanting to go out and literally just like, fight bad guys, like that's what you want to do. When it all boils down to it, like, why do you want to be a cop? Like well, cause, I want to play cops and robbers as a grownup. Like a cop Like well, cause, I want to play cops and robbers as a grownup. Like that's what I want to do, right, right, so, so like you get out there and you go and you're like I'm going to enforce every law that I can to take as many bad guys to jail as I can, right, and you view yourself very much like an enforcer of the law. Right, I'm going to enforce consequences of the law. Right, going to enforce consequences of the law. Right, and by and large, that's that's mostly what we do, right, but but in 2020, I really saw overstepping where it's like all right, you guys are going to go and throw people out of places and arrest people for not wearing masks and you're going to go and do this and you're going to go. And I'm like these are not laws, like no one is breaking laws. And then they got all these like governor mandates that started coming out. I was like the mandate is not a law, like what statute are we arresting people on? And everyone's like I don't know.
Speaker 1:And then I had, and then at the same time I had a private business that I ran. I ran a CrossFit gym at the time and we got and we got shut down. And then I had buddies of mine that worked for Indiana State Excise call me and say, hey, we're getting reports that you're open when you're not supposed to be. And I was like okay, and they were like, well, we're going to fine you. And I was like under what statute? And they were like we don't know. I'm like, well, we're just giving you a warning. And I said under what statute are you giving me a warning? And they're like let me check with my Lieutenant. And they checked with the Lieutenant and they came back and said, well, it's just a warning. I said what are you doing? What are? What statute are you enforcing?
Speaker 2:What are?
Speaker 1:you doing. I said I was like I was like guys, like I work the same job as you. You can't give me a warning on nothing. You have to have probable cause, you have to have like corroborated evidence, you have to take tips and make sure that they're valid before you just go kick in a door and give people fines and take people to jail, like this is not, this is not Russia, this is not the Soviet Union. Like we have these things in place and like how are you slipping through things? Like like this is nuts. So I had to go to my employees and do the same thing that you talked about earlier Like hey, if there's any cops that come here, cause we were legally open, legally open to sell, to sell supplements and food, but we couldn't have people in the gym working out Right Makes sense so so.
Speaker 1:So I had to tell them any cops come here, don't open the door. And they're like are you serious? I go go. Anyone who is not a paying member does not get in this facility. We are not taking new people. No one with a badge gets in, nobody. And they were like are you serious? I was like dead serious, make them go get a warrant. They won't be able to do it because there's no statute that I'm violating. I know this, right, right. So that that was. That was when I was like man, man, this is getting crazy.
Speaker 1:And it really dawned on me that my job as a cop is not just an enforcer, but it is actually just to navigate where laws need to be enforced and where people's rights need to be enforced and say no, no, this is an overstep of what I am designed to do. I'm not doing it, you're not doing it either. You know, and put your foot down with that Cause. There's. There's a lot of autonomy that we have where we're rolling around by ourselves and we're kind of leading ourselves. It's. It's a very leaderless profession in a lot of ways, um, and there just aren't enough like people able to think critically within the space and say, no, like I ain't doing that because there's no statute to enforce there, right, um so. So anyway, long story, long roundabout story is uh, is that, like my views on that are have changed a lot?
Speaker 1:And I used to be on a gang unit that we would take people's uh freedom away for handgun permit violations, and then and it was a legal, legal thing that was on the books in the state of Indiana for years, right, right. And then we went to, in the last few years, we went to a constitutional carry where you don't need that anymore. And, like, a lot of guys were like this is horrible, this is terrible. We're going to have so many more shootings and murders. These gang members are going to be rolling around with guns and it's legal. And I was like, yeah, maybe, but maybe we're making up stories.
Speaker 1:And I also said like, in a time that we are over litigating everything and we are overstepping, we've proven to be overstepping our bounds as cops. I think this is a great thing that the state's doing, because we should have power taken away from us right now, not given to us. And people were like you're crazy. And I was like, no, I think it's fine. And you know what we've seen Like no changes. We're just making less arrests and actually it forces cops to be better, I think, because to arrest somebody as a gang member now, you actually have to prove that they're a gang member. You can't just take their guns away.
Speaker 1:You have to prove a criminal enterprise and then you can take all their guns away. It just takes more work. It's harder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love what you said there. You get into the profession because you want to take down bad guys, you want to play cops and robbers, essentially right, I'm going to be the good guy, I'm going to help people and I like circling full back to how we were talking politically, different political aisles, same like, same thing that you were saying with being a police officer. You get into it, and I believe most people do, because it's not because you want to enforce law, it's because you want to help people and you want to do good for the world. And then you just get into this position and again, this is from an outsider's perspective. You can tell me to shut the hell up, but from what I see is kind of like.
Speaker 2:You get into this position and, similar to the military, you get almost a little indoctrinated with what law is and it gets this gray shift of law is moral instead of morality and law are two separate things. Right, and that's kind of what I feel like you were getting out with, with saying the like hey, we're not going to enforce this. What statute like you're? You're overstepping your moral boundaries to enforce a law.
Speaker 1:Yes, and also having the awareness to know that there is no statute. So therefore, you're actually acting immorally because you're ignorant of your job, right, like you don't know what you're doing out here, cause you're just like okay, sergeant told me to go arrest a dude, I'll arrest him. Like for what? Like your name, your name's on that PC, not his bro. Like you, you, you can't do that, right? So so, yeah, I think I think laws are based in a like we talked about the overarching moral code. I think they are based in that war at one point. But now it is so much just like I mean you know knee jerk, reactions to things, and and political, you know lobbying and money and that kind of stuff where it's like, is it anymore I, I just don't know Like every time there's a school shooting, somebody wants to take away all the guns from everyone and it's like listen, that's. We know that. That's not the problem here, you know.
Speaker 2:Right, Like you were saying, that knee jerk reaction it is. It is the, it's the fear, it's the wanting to be safe, it is the. Just because somebody else did it doesn't mean I'm going to do it. You know what I mean. Jeffrey Dahmer killed an eight people. That doesn't mean I'm going to, and not everybody should have their teeth taken out. You know what I mean. It's like it's it's that extremist approach to try and feel safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and what the kicker is with it is that you know what you talked about early, early on in the discussion here is that personal responsibility and and the fact that you, you're in charge of you. You know, like you don't need all these laws to protect yourself. You just need to know how to protect yourself. Right, and and even with Chicago is a great case study even with all the laws in the world, and DC too, like there's still massive amounts of, like I would say, epidemic level shootings and homicide in these huge left-wing liberal areas. When it's like, okay, all the laws in the world are not protecting anyone, so what are you actually accomplishing other than just creating power and control?
Speaker 2:Like I would. I would love to hear your opinion on this. Being in the law enforcement field, I've always kind of held the belief that law never stops crime. It just punishes people who get caught.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, I've. Yeah, it is. There is such a punitive effect to it where that's? That's obviously what our, what our legal system is is it's punitive, right. It's not rehabilitated, like we all know that you can say it is whatever, but it's not. It's punitive. Does it stop crime? I don't know. It deters some people, I think yeah for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:There's that nuance, absolutely so. So how much of it? I don't know, I don't know that there's a way to quantify that. You know, right, you know I, I know that it's it's. It feels to me very much like when we're dealing with, you know, crime and criminals and the criminal element and like repeat offenders and that kind of stuff. It feels very much like dealing with a, an eight-year-old, that it continually just steals cookies and you're like why are you continuing to do this? Get back in time out, get back in time.
Speaker 1:And right and sometimes, sometimes the eight-year-old gets caught and sometimes the eight-year-old gets away with it and there's that intermittent schedule of reinforcement that continues to push the behavior where it's like I got away with it three out of four times, Like man, I'll take the hit on the fourth one, I'll just keep doing it. You know what I mean. So there's not that, there's not the consistency to create a behavioral change. You know, and I don't know. I think a lot of it's just like people feel good because there's a rule about it, you know.
Speaker 1:It's like okay, well, the rule doesn't really do shit. Like I don't know Right, so right yeah. Does that answer the question?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that answer. It's what my wife always reminds me constantly, because I like to view the world very black and white, and she always goes there's more gray area than you want to admit and I'm like shut up. I know you're right, I just don't like your tone about it. You know, um, there was one. There was one thing I wanted to add, um, thinking back to what I said about you know, gun laws and everything and people wanting to be safe.
Speaker 2:The last thing that I wanted to add was it's part of the dangerous freedom that the forefathers understood when this country was created. I think people lose that a lot, especially with how kind of safe quote unquote the world is nowadays, with how less self-reliant kind of people have to be. They can go to the grocery store and have, instead of having to hunt their food. Um, I think people forget that dangerous freedom aspect. I think they forget that the idea of this country was founded on. Yeah, you, there is a possibility that bad shit could happen, but it's better to be free and have that risk.
Speaker 1:Yes, and there's so many things there that you can pull apart even from that simple statement. Right, so like dangerous freedom is a call to adventure. Like that is, you cannot have adventure without danger. Like there has to be a risk, you know.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And and and and part of this. Like my parents get mad at me or they get mad, they get confused, right? So, like my, my kids are getting older, they're starting to drive stuff like that and like we got all. We got these, these little contraptions that are basically surveillance tools, right, we surveil ourselves with them and, um, you know like, oh, you need to turn on your, your kids tracking so you know their live track or whatever the fuck it is Right. And I'm like I'm not doing it until I valid reason to do it. And I said I know I could track his behavior in his, in his movement and know exactly where he is minute to minute. Um, I don't think that that teaches him anything other than it's okay to be tracked by authority figures and and I'm not going to do that to him unless he gives me a very valid reason to do it you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And that's like.
Speaker 1:That's the kind of idea of yeah, and, and we, as as parents, we just worry, worry, worry. It's like, well, this will take some worry away, and it's like, well, will it? So now I'll just have have a live track of him. If he does get in a car wreck, I'll know exactly where the car wreck was, but it's not going to change the fact he got into a car wreck, you know right like it doesn't change anything.
Speaker 2:It just tells you're not that screen, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And in the meantime, nobody's living their lives. Because I'm worried about where he's at just staring at this thing, and he is concerned because his daddy's tracking him like get the fuck out of here. That's ridiculous. I'm not doing that, you know. And now, now, if he does something like like super illegal or some catastrophic happens and I need to put him on like a house arrest where I'm monitoring this, then we'll have that conversation, but I'm not going to overuse that.
Speaker 2:Right, but again that's where it comes back to that nuance that nobody wants to accept. It always falls back to gray area. Damn it. Yeah, but no, that's. That's so true, man, it's so true.
Speaker 1:Um well, cool man, what? Uh? So I, oh I know, going back to firearms training. Sorry, I'm kind of all over the place, but dude, you're totally fine.
Speaker 2:You've seen my podcast, you know how this goes.
Speaker 1:Well, we haven't talked about sex toys yet, so I guess, but all right. So, as far as like, like firearms training. Well, as far as, as far as like firearms training, what? What would you say? Is like like the lowest hanging fruit.
Speaker 2:That, as law enforcement, like we should be focusing on oh, okay, oh, putting me, putting me in the, put me in the spotlight here, um, okay, hold on, let me think about this for just like 10 more seconds.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, okay, hold on, let me think about this for just like 10 more seconds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as law enforcement, I think the biggest thing that should probably be focused on is actually not as much firearm training as it is restraint training, so Brazilian jujitsu and judo and Aikido and things like that being able to work with, with restraining, rather than needing to go to that deadly force option, even though, like, as I say this, I hope you don't think I'm being like, oh, you just need to restrain the dude with the machete. No, I understand, you got to pull out a gun, you got to beat violence with overwhelming violence. Um, I'm not, I'm not ignorant to that.
Speaker 2:Uh, but looking from, like, the police videos that I've watched police action, watching, you know, my buddy donut, um, watching all this content and kind of like surrounding myself in it for a little bit the biggest thing that I've noticed is the inability to make those critical decisions and be able to implement overwhelming force and put somebody down in a nonviolent manner, struggle, that initial, like they get hands on, and then the suspect, the, the purpose, I don't, I'm not fully sure what to call them the, the threat, um then starts to go for a weapon or then starts to struggle against them instead of that overwhelming force.
Speaker 2:And it might need to be a policy change within the police department. I don't know if, what, what your guys' legalities and rules are in that, but to be able to simply just strike someone, to be able to like get hands on, throw a strike, throw a kick down to the knee to get them down and then pin them down, um, that, from my perspective, seems to be something that should be really, really focused on, because when deadly force comes into it, from what I've seen, it's mostly you know, it's mostly seven to 10 yard kind of issues.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to tell me if I'm hearing this right, and I'll try to put it into different, like slightly different terms. Okay, um, so for for what? With what you said there, I would say professionalism needs to improve, right? So just being a consummate professional with, with the tactics that you have and knowing exactly how to use them and when to use them.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that is Thank you. That was very well summed up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I agree with that a hundred percent. And what you said about, like you know, using, you said non-violent, but it's, it's still going to be violence, it's just going to be a different non-lethal yeah, so um so yeah, yeah, or less lethal.
Speaker 2:I would say cause you can kill people grappling too.
Speaker 1:Right, that's a good, that's a good point, but being able, being able to being able to transition from uh, transition from action to action, appropriately and professionally.
Speaker 1:Like I'm going to grapple with you until it's no longer appropriate to grapple, and now I'm going to exercise lethal force because I'm out of options. Right, right, I, yeah, so Go for it. Oh, I was just going to say that, like I, I totally agree with that because, like we train, the way we train is very, uh, single dimensional. Right, it's very firearms day, grappling day, um, you know, talking day, like verbal judo day, whatever, but we don't blend them together and put them in a dynamic environment. Very often, um, because it's hard to do, like logistically, it's hard to set that training up, but it is what we do the most often is amic, transitional I'm talking to you, I'm fighting you, I'm shooting you or I'm backing it back down and I'm fighting with you, and then I disengage and then something else happens. Right, you know what I mean. It's very dynamic, but we need to string these things together and put them together with maps, and we don't do that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that is the biggest thing, especially from my martial arts background. It's one thing to learn how to punch, kick, chop and shuffle away or whatever it might be block, punch, kick but it's another thing when you have two dudes come at you at the same time or you know somebody. You know when you're practicing a technique which is just a preset, you know set of moves. When they throw their punch you're supposed to do your block, your punch, your kick, okay, cool. Well, what if they punch and then they throw a second punch? Cool. But what if they punch and then they throw a second punch? You know just that second punch. It immediately will stop somebody who's never done it. It immediately throws off their loop of I don't know what to do now. It's not going according to plan. So yeah, I absolutely agree. I think. I think mixing those together would be fantastic. I think that would be a well-needed adjustment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then the pushback is always well, we need to train to the least common denominator. And this is where I get into a whole thing of like all right, well, if this is what we're designed to do from a departmental standpoint, like we need to fill in the hole. There's a hole in this market. Like we need to fill it in with better training. Again, like you said, tacticons mission to provide, like to provide, like you know, your products to the bulk of people for a good price. It's like, well, we need to do the same thing with training, you know. So, like it's affordable for cops, we'll actually, they'll actually quit, but they have, like you have to go out and make an investment in training outside of the government. You know which is the lowest common denominator. Like it just doesn't work, unless you want to be the next YouTube fail. Cop on on, cop on viral videos, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I can only imagine that stress on a call. Oh my God, I can only imagine walking up and just being like is, this is today, the day Is today, the day that this goes viral? Please don't, please don't. But uh, I think you know kind of, as we're talking about this, I think a big thing about it too is people's perception of law enforcement and people's perception of of you know, the whole entity of the police force, as is I. I know that for myself.
Speaker 2:If I ever get stopped by chp or if I have a run-in with the police, my first immediate thought is please don't be an asshole. Right, because like, if, if, if the officer walks up to me and he goes, hey, how, you doing Everything good, just checking in, like maybe you were speeding a little bit, whatever it might be, you know what are you doing over here? I'm like, okay, officer's chill, he's just checking what's going on. Or he's just, you know, he's coming in to tell me hey, you were going 75 and a fucking 65. What are you doing? And I'm like I'm late to work. I'm sorry I'm being an asshole, but when they come up and they go and you can feel that aggression, you can feel that tone.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's what I'm. What I'm kind of trying to get at here is the comes down to like all right, who are you stopping? You know like there's, there's context to all of it, right.
Speaker 2:Again, that great yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is where, like professionalism, I think, comes in, because when I stopped anybody Right, like I'm, I am immediately prepping myself for a gunfight.
Speaker 2:I'm going.
Speaker 1:I'm going to that level I am. I am like I am systemically, like my nervous system is prepping for a gunfight, like that's what I'm getting ready for, so that, in case it happens, I'm not going to be a YouTube fail and I'm going to take care of business, right? Um, but like I also have to be from a nervous system standpoint, I got to stay there. I have to right, otherwise I'm not doing my job, I'm not professional. But if I also come at you verbally and I play that hand right away, like I'm ready for a gunfight and I'm an asshole and I'm super like keyed up and I'm like, hey, motherfucker, give me your license, you know, or whatever, right, or I just take you down at gunpoint for no reason and I call you up to me If I'm playing my card too soon, tactically that's bad and professionally it's bad, you know. So I have to be ready for the gunfight but present a professional demeanor where I'm semi-friendly until it's time not to be, you know.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I I hope you, I hope you've picked up that I'm an idealist at heart. I like to believe that you know we can get there, but I do very much. I understand the, the super nuance behind that. I can only imagine having to walk up to somebody and be like, okay, this could go bad, like I very much understand, like especially in some shootings that are unjustified with officers. I'm like I get it. He wants to go home. Like did he do the right thing? Absolutely not, but he wants to go home and I get that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and some of those I mean as much as, like you know, justified, unjustified, like you have to really look at how it shakes out in court and that kind of stuff right, because like, sometimes bad, quote-unquote, bad shootings are still justified. You know what I mean. And that's where raising the bar as far as training and expectations and stuff like that, like then then you can start to change that a little bit. But you know, it's all gotta be based on, on stuff that we already have, like you said, like we talked about constitution. But you also have to look at case law that's been established for years and years and years and say, all right, graham B Conner, tennessee versus Garner, like these things are in place.
Speaker 1:Like, did they do the right things based on these case loss, the right things based on these case loss statistics? And, aside from your opinions, like what did they do in regards to this in the context of these cases? You know, and if the answer is like they followed it or it might be ugly, but it might not have been what I would do, but it still is like legally okay, you know. So I don't know. There's a, there's a lot to it when you start looking at use of force and cops and you know, and you know everything right from like what we talked about, like the 2a stuff, but also, uh, like when you lethal force is is a seizure of a life, like you're taking a life potentially. So you know how does that all play into constitutionality and stuff.
Speaker 2:And it's right there's there's no easy answers no, there aren't, and that's that's the hardest bit is is there are no easy answers and there's so much nuance and there's so much just case like case by case nuance you know what I mean? Just just simply like day by day, one interaction with a, with one individual versus a different individual. There's so much nuance and there's so many different factors at play and it's it's hard to really just be able to be like yep, no, we have this one case study here that this is how you're supposed to run it. It's like what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And really I think, when it boils down right to it, I've got a buddy that's a state rep and he always calls me with with questions on use of force and stuff and I'm like, listen, I finally leveled with him. I'm like, listen, you get stopped by the cops. What happens? Your heart rate goes up, you white knuckle on the steering wheel. It doesn't matter if you're doing nothing wrong, you're scared. Right, everybody's scared. When you get stopped by the cops, stop by the cops, and so you go into a sympathetic state where it's very hard to speak, to decide, to do anything rationally. It's hard to do that. And then you have on the other end, a cop getting out of the car who's getting ready for a gunfight and it's very hard to speak, communicate, make decisions. So you just took two people and put them in the highest sympathetic state possible and put them in conflict with each other inside of a power dynamic that is hard to deal with in general, and want them to make good decisions on both ends. That's ridiculous, that's a big ask.
Speaker 2:You know that is a, that is a massive ask. Yeah, absolutely yes, that was very well put, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yes, that was very well put.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I've had a lot of practice at explaining that one.
Speaker 1:No, that was you should write a class on that, dude. That was perfect, that was well put, that was well worded. Well, thank you, I appreciate that. So what? I guess that that's all the stuff that I have. Do you have anything that that that you wanted to cover? Anything that you want to add? I know that that pro to a course. Can you tell me a little bit more more people are using that to run businesses and make money and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And yes, there's a couple of things I want to add. I'll start with the 2A pro course. So the way people are using that is essentially you sign up, you pay the entry fee and then you kind of have two choices pay the entry fee and then you kind of have two choices you can go for the plan that you pay monthly. So I think it's like I'll probably be wrong on this, but I think it's somewhere close to $30 a month. But that gives you access to everyone here on the Tacticon team. So it gives you access to me. People can text me and be like hey, I've got an idea for this video. How would you go about it? Or what do you think about this? Can you watch my video? Can you ask like they can ask me marketing tips? They can reach out to our graphic designer. Our engineer helps people cat out designs for their own manufacturing. So that is the like continued monthly plan. It gives them access to that. That um, essentially like a social media with everybody else in the course, and access to all of the team members here. And then the other side of it, which is less money and it's not a monthly fee Um, you get. You just get the coursework and you get a couple of office hours with Jake where you get to ask him some questions. But, um, that, the way people have been using that is quite simply, they join in, they start learning from the, the prerecorded modules. They have a couple um live sessions with Jake where they're asking him questions. They're talking to him on the phone, emailing him back and forth, texting him, and then he will help point them in the right direction of hey, I think this is a good idea for your product line. Um, they'll generally send him a couple ideas and be like hey, what do you think about this, this and this? And be like I like this one, this one, this one. It's up to you. This is just what I think. Let's cross-reference, let's look at the analytics, let's look at the data, um, and then the.
Speaker 2:The start that a lot of people get is they're doing a 10 K in 10 day thing. That's a little little catchphrase we got. But it's where they will um take our products if they want to, or they can take their own products and they'll take it to a gun shop and essentially, um, they'll just sell, start at a gun shop to start up that capital for their business. But from there it's just doing the work. And that's one of the funnier things, because I'll talk with Jake almost every day and he'll be like, yep.
Speaker 2:Another person asked me so does this really work? Can you guarantee I'll make money? And it's one of those things where it's like I don't know, are you going to do the work? Like, if you do the work, you will make money, but if you don't, I can't guarantee that you'll make any money. So it's, it's it's a little bit of that. It's it's predicated on the idea that you're going to do the work right. It's always based on that personal accountability. But it is the stepping stone of, you know, a decade of business, of failures, of hey, don't do that, cause that will mess you up. Like I'm telling you right now don't invest in this, invest in this mold. Instead, it'll last you way longer down the road. Um, we help people get in touch with suppliers. We just essentially help them start their business and get it rolling and then continue to help them grow.
Speaker 1:Cool, yeah, man, I like it. And then, uh, yeah, that that makes a lot of sense, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the only thing that.
Speaker 1:I, uh, oh, what else do you want to add?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, yeah, uh, I think that I was just perfect I think our latency is a little bit off, so you're like coming in a few seconds off there. But uh, the thing that I wanted to add was um being a warrior poet. Uh, you know john level talks about this a lot and I think it. I think it's something super crucial to everybody inside of everywhere. Um, at least at least for men majority, the, as the overwhelming majority.
Speaker 2:I think it's super important to take a step back and put mind, body and spirit together, kind of how we were talking about putting different training aspects together. It's not just the physical. I think I think the two way space um, just to hone in on it gets really lost in the physical aspect. I think they get really lost in this. Oh well, I'm just going to go get a gun and train and it's like well, no, you need to think about the mental aspect. You need to think about the spiritual aspect. I think you really need to recognize this as a martial art and come into this.
Speaker 2:I need to be able and capable of overwhelming violence, but I need to be smart, I need to be contained, I need to be able to leash that beast Like Jordan Peterson talks about. You need to be a monster, but have control over it and really look into the philosophical aspects of life. I think that's something that the community is really missing as a whole, and you'll see it with a lot of the infighting, because people will kind of have their own ideas of what right and wrong is and that's going to happen forever. But it's a lot of the time the infighting happens because one person is set in either the mental and one person's set of the physical and they bash and they don't see that it's all the same and it needs to be combined.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and especially in a space where, like hey, who's right, who's wrong, like it just depends on the type of athlete you are and the situation you're in as to who's right and who's wrong. So everybody's right at one point or another, you know. So there's space for all of it.
Speaker 2:Right, right, that's and I think that's a super hard thing for a lot of people to grasp is almost everybody's right in a lot of things. You know what I mean. Like you can, it's, it's that gray area, nuance, right, it's like you can look at something and go, okay, I kind of see how that could be right. But you know, and and that's hard for people to to accept because you want to be right, especially if you're tiffing with somebody right, it's like I don't know, I want to be right, you can't be right.
Speaker 1:It's like I don't know. I want to be right. You can't be right. Yeah, that's that ego. So yeah, the destruction of ego. So yeah, well, that's another. We'd be talking for another two hours on that. So where, so? Where can, where can people find more about you and Taticon and continue to learn, grow and develop Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So we have pretty much all major social media platforms. We are on YouTube, instagram, I think. We're on Facebook. I think we created a new Facebook. Our Facebook account got nuked so we had to make a new one. We're on Twitter. Those are the primary places. Yeah, facebook didn't like what we were doing so they nuked us. But, uh, those are all of them. You can find us at tacticon armament. Uh, for all of those, um, youtube's probably gonna be the easiest one to find us. We cross post everything. So, whether it's on twitter or whether it's on YouTube, you'll pretty much find the same content. Twitter, it's at Tacticoncom.
Speaker 2:For myself, it's the Almost Perfect Weapon. It's a joke. I've got that a buddy gave me from an old Kempo karate movie the Perfect Weapon, and he's like you kind of remind me of that guy, but you're not the perfect weapon. He's like you're the almost perfect weapon, and so it just kind of stuck and it's a stupid name, but same thing. I do a lot of stuff with tactic on like, like we've been talking about. I do a lot of firearms training and stuff like that. On my own personal stuff, I do more martial arts, I like to get more into philosophical aspects and kind of, you know, examining the, the, the psyche behind human behavior, and I try and put that to to martial arts aspects.
Speaker 1:Well, cool man. Well, that's all I got. And uh, I appreciate your time for today. I really do. And uh, like, I got a lot of this out of this conversation and maybe we can do it again sometime.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, brother. This was a. This was a blast. Thank you for having me on. Uh, like this was, this was super cool. So thank you, man, I appreciate it and we'll keep in touch. Absolutely, this was a great conversation.
Speaker 1:Definitely man. Thanks, of course, bye.
