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All In: Student Pathways Forward
This podcast focuses on elevating community college student voices to shape inclusive higher education and workforce development policies, practice and partnerships that create economic mobility.
All In: Student Pathways Forward
Rogue Community College & Kansas State University John E Roueche Center for Community College Leadership - RCC Student Lynne Hamblin & College President Dr. Cathy Kemper-Pelle; KSU Center for Community College Leadership Exec. Director Dr. John E Roueche
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This episode features an interview with Rogue Community College (RCC) student Lynne Hamblin who returned to school to get her GED and enroll in the college’s award winning co-enrollment/integrated education and training program that offered simultaneous access to credit courses and additional wraparound supports. Lynne was honored as the selected student speaker for the 2021 College Commencement ceremony last spring.
RCC College President Dr. Cathy Kemper-Pelle talks about the importance of adult education programs and how the co-enrollment model directly supports the college mission, strategic plan priorities, and the college shifting to being student ready. She also discusses the recent passage of Oregon HB2835, the Benefits Navigator Bill, and other critical resources.
Dr. John E Roueche, Executive Director of the John E Roueche Center for Community College Leadership at Kansas State University, and nationally recognized higher education leader and scholar, shares insightful community college history and reflects on the importance of being open access institutions that are also equally focused on student success. Dr. Roueche emphasizes the importance of faculty and staff taking a human-centered and holistic approach to supporting students.
Welcome to the All-In Student Pathways For podcast, where we're focused on elevating student voices from Oregon Community Colleges to shape inclusive policies, programs, and partnerships. This is Mark Goldberg, the host, and I'm very happy to have the chance to talk with and learn from different Oregon Community College students, as well as other higher education leaders. Thanks for listening. In this episode, I have the pleasure of talking with Lynn Hamblin, a student at Road Community College in Southern Oregon, who started her academic journey there in the GE Prep program and is now working towards a college credential. Afterwards, I speak with Road Community College President Dr. Kathy Verpel about the very successful concurrent enrollment integrated education and training program at the college that Lynn has participated in. Lastly, I'm very fortunate to have a conversation with Dr. John E. Roosh, a leading scholar in the field of community colleges for 50 plus years, and the executive director of the John E. Roosch Center for Community College Leadership at Kansas State University. I'd like to welcome my featured guest, Lynn Hamblin, who's a student at Rogue Community College in the Rogue Valley in Southern Oregon. Welcome, Lynn, to the All In Student Pathways Forward podcast. Thank you so much. So I'm looking forward to getting to know you better and learn about your experience at Rogue Community College at RCC and ask you if you could talk about your past work and college experience and how you decided to enroll at Rogue Community College.
SPEAKER_02I had a knowledge that followed me anywhere in the jewelry business. And it was when I got pregnant at 37 and had twins. First of all, I knew I couldn't go back to work right away because it just would cost us money for daycare. But then realizing my skill set was not necessarily family-oriented with long retail holiday hours and working Saturdays when kids have soccer games and stuff like that. So it really started to change to I need to have a more family-oriented job. And once the twins started at Head Start on the RCC campus, it was Head Start programs said, Hey, we'll pay for you to get your GED. And I said, Well, I guess so. Right there on the campus, we're there together. And it was my 41st birthday that I started my GED prep classes, scared out of my mind, so scared. But I fell in love instantly with the whole process, the people, just how much care and concern the teachers, the office staff, everybody has for all of the students, and really fell in love with the diversity of the classroom. There was kids that didn't want to finish high school the traditional way. There was homeschool kids. There was people older than I was. And we just all meshed really well together and took care of each other and really, really pushed each other to get it done together.
SPEAKER_00That's remarkable. And I've seen that with other students where that support network with your classmates and those connections can really make it easier. And especially for students that may be coming back to school.
SPEAKER_02And that really continued to play a role, especially when COVID hit, and my tests were canceled and my kids were at home with me, so I couldn't do the online classes, but still keeping in contact with those friendships that I had made. And even actually at Christmas time, one of those friends was homeless. He moved in with my family and I for four months. Like those are the those are the really deep connections. He was actually the one that convinced me to roll back in fall of 20 after COVID. I mean, we were still doing online Zoom classes from home, but luckily my twins were able to start kindergarten in person. There was a couple of weeks when they were home with us, but we made it work. And I will definitely be grateful for him always for making me go back and getting it done.
SPEAKER_00Wow. That's so interesting to hear how you came back in as the pandemic has rolled along and the that transition and the challenges there, but the encouragement of a classmate. And so at this point, are you taking GED preparation classes or no?
SPEAKER_02Actually, I finished my GED in May. Fall I did math and science classes as well as a concurrent enrollment psych 101 class, which the GED program pays for the concurrent enrollment classes and also support you the whole way through it. So every week I check in with the GED support teacher and just make sure we were on track if we had any questions or needed any extra help because it is a fully accredited college class. They really, really wanted to focus on making sure we're succeeding. And I did. And then in the winter, I took another concurrent enrollment class, Math 60, and did my English test and social studies test in the winter. Did my science test at the beginning of spring. I waited to do my math tests because, first of all, I was really hoping to graduate with gold honors chords. I was three points away. So I did a lot of extra study time in math. I did two more concurrent enrollment classes in the spring that directly relate to my certificate. And I'm taking one this summer. So next year I'll have six classes and I'll have my certificate because of that extra support.
SPEAKER_00And all those classes that you were able to take concurrently while you were taking GED preparation classes. Correct. And can you say a little bit more about the certificate?
SPEAKER_02It is business administrative information technology specialists. I really wanted to work in the front office of my kids' elementary school. But as my GED journey and starting college classes has kind of progressed, the journey and the emotions and how much I've enjoyed it and having that camaraderie with the friends and us helping drive and push each other. I think I'm going to switch to working for the GED program at the college in one form or another to really just keep that passion alive and share it with anybody I can share it with, everybody I can share it with.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's amazing. Just to date so far from your experience at RCC, what would you say has been your biggest success?
SPEAKER_02I don't know that I could specifically name a single success, but there's been two pretty big highlights. First, being asked to represent the 2021 class as the student speaker for our graduation was a pretty big highlight. Wow. And second, I was nominated for the Coalition on Adult Basic Education, Outstanding Adult Learner of the Year Award. Unfortunately, I didn't win, but it was a huge honor just to be nominated. And that was a nomination by my math and science teacher in the GED program.
SPEAKER_00Congratulations. That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02It hangs in my frame above my desk.
SPEAKER_00What an honor. Can you talk about any challenges that you faced pursuing your education now or in the past?
SPEAKER_02I mean, obviously, having my kids at home during COVID was a huge setback, especially that very first spring term, not being able to even continue my journey. I really almost did give up. I would felt so defeated and knowing that I'd have literally would have to start over again when I was so close to being done. So that one was a huge one. And then trying to take my tests on campus, where very few of the campus testing centers were even open. But then also having to wear a mask, which I struggle with anxiety to that degree anyway. I always feel like I'm suffocating. And so to be nervous taking a test while wearing a mask, I actually panicked and wasn't able to finish a test. So having to be able to have a computer with Windows 10 on it at home to take my tests through the college and the library will rent out Windows 10 computers to GED students just to take their tests.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's nice to have that option.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So we hear from students all the time that funding college can be a real source of stress. And I'm wondering what resources within the college or outside have been most helpful to you in addressing the cost of college.
SPEAKER_02So within the GED program, we also work with STEP, which helps us steer us in directions, helps pay for books and travel money, whether it's you know, gas card or bus passes. But Brandon in the STEP program pointed me toward TRIO, student support services, takes away every shred of stress. They know all of the loans, they know all of the scholarships, they she walked me through step-by-step FAFSA and Oregon Promise, and then afterward checked up on me to make sure there was no more questions and that I had gotten through everything okay. There was zero, zero stress to funding with going through Trio.
SPEAKER_00That's great to hear. And so internal referral to another program, TRIO, the college provided additional supports. Absolutely. You may have touched on this a bit already, but has there been someone on the campus who's helped you most in navigating benefits and getting connected to these resources? So through Trio or through STEP? And if so, how are they most helpful?
SPEAKER_02Obviously, your teachers are always your first go-to and they are very knowledgeable on where to send you to get resources and help. All the ladies in the office, like even being our cheerleaders in our successes when we pass tests and whatnot. I mean, down to the librarians making sure we have the correct books for our classes. Everyone wants us to succeed and knows where to point us, whether it's through the STEP program or into Trio or navigating the switch and change between the GED into straight college, where I'm losing my those resources that I'm used to, but also being given every resource in the next direction to make sure that I'm still succeeding.
SPEAKER_00It sounds like Rogue has layers of support and staff and faculty and all different areas that have been helpful to you.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. But I don't think I've ever come across a single teacher, staff, anybody that didn't have such a passion for what they do at the school.
SPEAKER_00That's really nice to hear. Kudos to Rogue for that commitment to student success and support. You had talked to me a little bit earlier this week. Is it a work study position or a position at the college that you're going to be starting?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was actually just accepted. It is a student work position in the STEP program where I will be of um imminent state of support for Brandon and Jasmine, helping them with paperwork, also like the first contact with students to help them make sure they're in the right place and get everything that they need, whether it's navigating the bookstore, which can be tricky the first couple times you use it, or making sure you get your gas cards filled or your bus passes get to you, things like that.
SPEAKER_00What a great opportunity. And as you described your career goals, it feels like it's a really I get to continue sharing my passion.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And an opportunity to interface and engage with other students that are just getting started, and you'll be able to share your own insights and experience as a student as well.
SPEAKER_02Yep. I'm really excited.
SPEAKER_00So, from your perspective, Lynn, what type of college policies could make it easier for students like yourself who are juggling parenting, work, and other family responsibilities with their own education at the college?
SPEAKER_02I think the college has always done a really good job. I mean, just having friends gone there before I started my journey, also having families of having online classes available even before COVID for moms at home, or evening classes for working families, or only daytime classes for when kids are at school. The school does have so many options to try to accommodate everybody's lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00So that diversity of scheduling of when classes are available online and at different times of day to accommodate students' needs and preferences based on their family situation. Yeah, life situations. What would you say is the most important thing that educators, career coaches, and others working to help students succeed can do to help?
SPEAKER_02I think the biggest thing when you're scared, like going to class, starting college is scary. And so the biggest thing is just being patient and careful with those emotions and listening to the students to really ease their tensions and their fearfulness and yeah, that makes really good sense.
SPEAKER_00And I think as you described at the very beginning, just being terrified coming back to school and you're one student, but multiply that by thousands potentially. Yes. And so just having that focus on listening to students, being patient with them to ease any of the, yeah, like you said, the emotion, the stress, and then assisting and navigating all these different systems, right?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00So I think that's really great advice. And I think to flip that question from a student side, like if you were able to give advice to other students at Rogue who were just getting started or at another community college, what would you advise them from your own experience?
SPEAKER_02Just do it, do it, do it, do it. Like we are literally the only thing standing in our way because there is help, there are resources, there are people that care. Just do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's great advice. And you described the pause during COVID with the challenges with technology and family. And I think for many students who may be returning, or even traditional students, like it is easy to find your way out or just have other situations in your life that make it more difficult. But that focus and reminder of just staying with it and doing it is really good advice. So, how has your experience at Rogue Community College been impactful in your life?
SPEAKER_02It has changed every aspect of my life with new friendships. And I mean, I've always been a fairly confident person, but I feel I guess successful is the word. Not to feel like I don't know. Gaining these huge achievements, it adds to a person in a way I never had felt before. I'm definitely a happier person. All of that, I could go anywhere from there where I never had that option before.
SPEAKER_00So and it sounds like as you've continued your studies, it's really given you the opportunity to consider uh even other options you hadn't thought about before.
SPEAKER_02And finding new passions and a passion for education at that, like I never would have thought of myself working in a school or directly with students, maybe being a teacher someday. I don't know, but I could. I could do any of that because I could share all of that passion along the way.
SPEAKER_00So what kind of teacher would you want to be if you went that route?
SPEAKER_02If I did decide to be a teacher, probably would want to be a GED teacher at the college.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Although my math teacher is very adamant that I would make a wonderful middle school math teacher. So she's been pushing me to that.
SPEAKER_00Well, it sounds like um where you're at now, your future is really bright, and you have a multitude of ways that you could take these skills that you've developed, and that your experience at Rogue has been dynamic and you've accomplished a lot already to date.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the sky's the limit for sure.
SPEAKER_00So is there anything else you'd like to share, Lynn, about your experience at Rogue for this podcast episode?
SPEAKER_02I think the biggest takeaway is just don't ever let fear stand in your way because that's gonna get you nowhere. And even small steps are a step ahead.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's really good advice. And yeah, I think getting a chance to hear your journey is motivating and inspiring, and appreciated hearing your recommendations and suggestions as well for other students, for staff, for the college. So just want to thank you for taking the time to have this discussion and can definitely hear and feel your passion for education and in support of other students who were on a similar journey.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. It's been amazing. Amazing, amazing.
SPEAKER_00Well, good luck as you start classes again this fall and you begin in this new role in support of other students in the STEP program.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it'll be great fun. I look forward to it. I can't wait.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you again, Lynn.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you, Mark.
SPEAKER_00So I would like to welcome my next guest to the podcast today, President Dr. Kathy Kemper Pell of Rogue Community College. Thank you, President Kemper Pell, for joining me. It's great to focus this episode on Rogue Community College and a great student of yours, Lynn Hamblin. So welcome.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much, Mark. It's an honor to be here.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'd like to start by asking you to just share a bit more about Rogue Community College for listeners that may not be as familiar with your institution.
SPEAKER_03Well, Rogue Community College is named after a river, and not because of any attitude that we might have. That's very rogue, but it's a fun college name to play with. We were founded 50 years ago in Grants Pass, Oregon, and we now serve both Josephine and Jackson counties, which are in Southern Oregon, right on the Northern California border. We serve about 11,000 students annually on three campuses. And we really pride ourselves on being an inclusive and dynamic college that inspires, strengthens, and transforms our students.
SPEAKER_00So that's wonderful and helpful to have. Congratulations on your 50-year anniversary. Thank you. So I know that you had the chance to listen to the interview I had with Lynn Hamblin, who's a student at Rogue, and would love to get your overall reactions to the discussion with Lynn earlier in this podcast episode.
SPEAKER_03Well, Lynn, Lynn's a great student. And you know, as she mentioned, she was a graduation speaker and has been recognized several times at the state and national levels. She's just a great, great person. And she's a wonderful reminder of why community colleges exist. We're open-door institutions and we offer more than just opportunities. As Lynn described, we support our students. We provide them with what we call wraparound services in order to help them pursue their dreams, regardless of where they started. That's really what distinguishes us from the four year universities. We are not selective enrollment and we meet students where they are. As an adult learner, as you heard, Lynn needed to make a career change. And you know, children were a driver in that. She needed to get her GED as the first step. And we emphasize in our GED program, it is only a first step, it's not the last step. But that's really a scary, scary decision for an adult learner to come back to school when they've been out for a while. And it describes a great many people in our service area who are wrestling with that dilemma of this is a very scary thing. I think I should do it, but am I capable? And this is an internal conversation that a lot of people in our service area are having right now.
SPEAKER_00And there are a lot of adults who could benefit from post-secondary education who may not have a credential, a college degree or certificate, and may start in the GED program to get their high school equivalency or may start at college level. But either way, it's an intimidating step to reconnect and to find your way. And I guess what I heard from Lynn was just this experience where she felt like she's gotten support at all levels from the college.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's exciting. Our staff are so committed to our students. And it's always great to hear that validated from the viewpoint of a student who's been here with us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I'm wondering what you heard from the conversation with Lynn that highlighted work that Rogue is doing well to address students' unmet financial needs.
SPEAKER_03As I mentioned in our mission statement, we really put a high priority on creating a welcoming environment. And I was so pleased to hear Lynn describe exactly what our intention is to surround our students with not just a person who's supportive, but a group of people that are supportive, that everywhere they turn within the institution, there are people there who are willing and able to help them. You know, our philosophy is to be student ready and meet students where they are, and also to demystify college. For so many, especially first generation college students, there's this myth surrounding college that oftentimes is of quite epic proportions, and it can really be so intimidating that it convinces potential students that they don't belong here, that they're not college material. And I try to emphasize constantly we are an open-door institution. Anyone can come here. I think one of our most important roles is to help demystify college and help students understand that yes, you are college material and that there are many pathways you can go. And in the process of your obtaining a GED, we hope that you will see many, many possibilities beyond the GED and help them do some career exploration and hopefully finding a career pathway that takes them a little further in their education. Because we know that the high school equivalency is a great start. But when you look at the data on what happens to jobs when the economy takes a downturn, it's the people with the least amount of education that are affected the most. And so we really want to ensure that our students go further in their pathway and are in higher wage jobs that are more stable jobs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's spot on. And also see the other side of that is when there are jobs coming back when we're coming out of a recession, the individuals who are able to solidify work first are those with post-secondary credentials.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I just wanted to add, it's it's great to hear you talk about career pathways efforts at Rogue, because I know that your career pathways initiative has been recognized nationally and really helping students with stackable credentials that lead to good jobs in your area, either in a certificate, uh CTEAAS degree, or even a transfer track. I know from years involved in this work that rogue has really been dynamic and a leader in that space.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. We've been very excited to be a part of the Oregon Guided Pathways work, and we're seeing the fruits of our labors. It's really changed how we do business, how we work with students, how we recruit, how we retain. It was really good to hear Lynn talk about how she met with Brandon in the STEP program. And when she expressed an interest in taking some college-level courses for concurrent credit, that Brandon immediately connected her with someone in our TRIO educational opportunity office. And that was great because the EOC office is all about helping students understand the application process and most importantly the financial aid process. Because as we all know, the the FAFSA drives the financial aid process. And it still is a very complicated form and quite daunting. And just to be able to help our students get through the FAFSA application is huge because Pell is often for our low-income and first generation students, the only way they're going to be able to afford a college education, even at a community college.
SPEAKER_00Right. Knowing that for students who are starting in GED or ESOL non-credit, they may not be financial aid eligible. And so the concurrent enrollment model has really opened up access to those credit classes and made them more affordable. So I'm wondering if you could talk about how the integrated education and training program, the concurrent enrollment that Lynn described, which aligns with your priorities as the president of the college focused on student success.
SPEAKER_03Well, our strategic plan has what we call wildly important goals. And our first wildly important goal has to do with creating a welcoming and inclusive environment for all. It's access. And Lynn described the diversity of people in her GED program and the passion that the staff had for helping students succeed. And that really exemplifies what our, while the important goal about access is all about, you know, creating that welcoming environment where students want to enter and want to stay. Concurrent enrollment for Rogue has been a really great way to help our GED students really see that they are college material. What our students really need is to experience success in a college-level course. When they realize that they've taken a college course and succeeded in it, their world is absolutely transformed. And I think we heard Lynn say that very specifically. It opened a lot of doors for her that she was not willing to even consider before.
SPEAKER_00I think to add to that is the model that Rogue has developed where those concurrent classes are part of some different stackable credentials makes it even more accessible, right? It's a remarkable model. And it was great to hear Lynn describe that.
SPEAKER_03It was. It was. Yeah, our our second while the important goal is about student success and really helping all students progress on their learning pathway. And we include holistic student supports and effective student engagement strategies in that. And really, this concurrent enrollment is a wonderful student engagement strategy because students are involved in a college-level course. And, you know, it's typically on a career and technical pathway that they know from the onset that it's the first step towards a possible credential. And that's a great way to engage a student. And our adult learners have extremely complicated lives and they have a lot of responsibilities outside of school. COVID and our regional wildfires added another layer of complexity last year. And Lynn talked a little bit about having to step out for a while. And it really speaks very highly about the level of student camaraderie and support that's developed in that program. Food and housing and security were big problems here in our service area before COVID and before the wildfires. We know that they are even more so now. And the wraparound services are really critical to keeping our GED students enrolled. We try to help connect them with everything that we possibly can to help relieve their burden while they're in the program.
SPEAKER_00And we know that those resources and benefits make a big difference for adult learners. So I'm curious what are some future opportunities for Rogue Community College in serving adult students holistically. Where will the college take this work next?
SPEAKER_03The state of Oregon just passed legislation that ensures that we will have benefits navigators at every higher-end institution in the state. And so Rogue has that position posted, and we're looking forward to having another full-time person who's available to help students get connected to the benefits that they need. SNAP is a big one. Getting our students connected to our SNAP benefits locally is a huge financial relief for them.
SPEAKER_00That actually does lead me thinking about that bill, to our Pathways to Opportunity initiative across the state in connecting students with benefits and resources we know can only be effective with strong programs, inclusive policies, and dynamic partnerships. And you just talked a little bit about SNAP as one, but I'm curious what are some of the valuable community partnerships that Rogue Community College has developed as part of your PTO work that have been most impactful in supporting students?
SPEAKER_03I think they really fall into two categories. One is services and the other is funding. In the services area, of course, having a Head Start program on our campus is a great way to connect parents with the college. We also have similar connections with the Boys and Girls Club and with our local YMCAs. And we're currently in the process of developing even closer partnerships with Boys and Girls Club in the Illinois Valley, which is an extremely rural area where they have taken over our satellite location, but we are still offering classes there. They're recruiting for us, and they actually offer the parents of our children discounts if they take classes with us. We are continually working with Access, which is a local nonprofit that helps us with our food pantries. The Jackson County Housing Authority has been a great partner in helping us identify housing. The county library systems have also been great partners, especially when we were totally remote because they provided Wi-Fi hotspots for our students to be able to access their online courses. And then one last partnership I want to mention is the Rogue Workforce Partnership, which has created a Rogue Careers website that features career opportunities that are available in the Rogue Valley. And they have aligned it to our pathways. Every career that you explore has a link back to how do you get prepared for that career, which leads them to our website and our programs. On the funding side, we've had really great support from several nonprofits. And the Rome Community College Foundation has been a critical provider of emergency funds for students when they've had difficulty with car breaking down or not being able to make rent.
SPEAKER_00That's an enormous list there. And even just going way back to Head Start, Boys and Girls Club, YMCA thinking about childcare. I mean, the fact that they're on campus, that they're recruiting for RCC and incentivizing parents to go back to school. And that's Lynn's story and how she came to the GED program. It feels like it is a two-generation approach that is dynamic. And Housing Authority, Food Pantry, Library, I mean, those are all phenomenal community partners, along with funders that you listed. And to me, it just reiterates the point that colleges can't do it alone when we think about serving our students holistically. And the more that we're able to partner with these complementary organizations, the more that our students can benefit and we can set them up for success. And it sounds like with this long list, Rogue has been really effective. It's really carrying out the vision of that pathways to opportunity framework across the state.
SPEAKER_03And we're just getting started.
SPEAKER_00More to do. So let me shift a little bit back to students. And what are some ways that you've been able to elevate student voices, particularly adult students, to shape policies and programs leading to student success?
SPEAKER_03I think one of the most successful things that we've been able to do, and this is another partnership, is partner with one of our local TV stations, KOBI, to feature marketing videos that have students in the starring role. We feature students, they are interviewed, they are shown working in our labs, they are shown working in the job that they attained after they completed their credential with us. These are phenomenal videos and they tell the story so much better than we could. We just have a constant series of these playing out, and often they are back to back with the Rogue Workforce Partnership Rogue Careers ads. They've really done a great job of linking the careers and our programs together in this marketing. We also have recently, during the pandemic, started something called student huddles. And we've tried in the past to have students come face to face and talk. And it's been really interesting that the Zoom environment has actually been much more conducive to getting frank input from students. So we're continuing to do that even as we return to campus. The board gets a summary of the student idles for the month at every board meeting. And they read them. And we have conversations about the feedback that we're getting from students in these discussions. They've been extremely helpful in helping us see from a student point of view how things look and how things work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, those two examples are really interesting ones. They're great ways to really ground in student experiences and hearing their voices. So I know we need to wrap up here. I just wanted to ask you one last question and wondering if there's anything else, President Kemper Pell, that you'd like to share on this podcast episode.
SPEAKER_03I'm really proud of our GED program. They were recognized a couple of years ago as a Bellweather Award finalist for the concurrent enrollment program. And we're very, very proud of that. That's a national honor. And that was a great boost for our GED staff. Our adult basic skills department was so inspired that the work they were doing was worthy of national recognition. And so I think it's important for us as leaders to remember to find ways to ensure that the things we're doing well are recognized. Because we not only need to support our students, we need to support our staff who are on the front lines day in and day out, working to help our students overcome these challenges. It's a great thing when we can recognize them for that work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And congratulations to you, to Rogue, and to the GED faculty and staff for that award. And I know having lived in the world of adult basic skills at different colleges, you know, students may feel marginalized because they're coming back to school, they're a non-native English speaker, they're not credit-bearing college-level classes. At times, faculty and staff may feel the same way because of how their students are perceived. And so to hear about that award and just to hear you talk about the value and importance of the GED program and adult students at the college really demonstrates the commitment to the mission, as you talked about early on, and being accessible to the community and recognizing that's the door for certain individuals in your area and to really support those students and those programs. Just want to say thank you to you for that leadership and also for spending the time talking to me on this podcast and sharing your thoughts, reflections, and really vision for the college moving forward.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for inviting me, Mark.
SPEAKER_00It is an incredible honor to introduce my next guest to the podcast today, Dr. John E. Roosh. Dr. Roosh created and directed the most substantive and successful community college leadership program in the history of higher education at the University of Texas at Austin, that has graduated over 600 leaders, one-third women, one-third leaders of color, and more than 200 leaders who've gone on to assume presidency positions. Dr. Roosh has received extensive national recognition for his research, teaching, service, and overall leadership, including the 2016 Harry S. Truman Award from the American Association of Community Colleges, the highest award given by AACC. Dr. Roosh was also honored in 2012 by the American Association of Community Colleges Board of Directors, who named their national leadership initiative the John E. Roosh Future Leaders Institute. Dr. Roosh is the Executive Director of the John E. Roosch Center for Community College Leadership currently at Kansas State University. Welcome, Dr. Roosh, to the All-In Student Pathways Forward Podcast today. Thank you, Mark. Glad to be here. Well, it's especially an honor to have the chance to speak with you on the podcast as I am a past recipient of the League for Innovation John and Suwann Roosh Excellence Award for my innovative work as the Associate Vice President of Workforce Development and Continuing Education at Portland Community College in years past. Good show.
SPEAKER_01Congratulations.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you. So would love to get started and wanted to get your perspective on the work that we're doing now through this podcast and beyond in really centering our students to better understand how they're navigating through college and how that can help us shape better policies, practices, and even partnerships to support student success.
SPEAKER_01Mark, I'm going to give you just a little perspective, a little history. I won't make it too long. 600 community colleges were created during the decade of the 60s as a major recommendation of the Harry Truman Commission, which said there should be a public community college with an easy commute of 90-some percent of the American population. Community colleges started, they were known as Democracy's College. Give us your tired, your poor, your teeming masses, and we'll give them every opportunity, blah, blah, blah. Well, being an open door college in the minds mark of many of these college presidents meant just that. Let's just open the door and give them an opportunity to go to college. And I think their notion of democracy's college was come on in, the water's fine, and we certainly give you every opportunity to see how well you can do. Well, they didn't do very well. About fifteen colleges really got serious about what do we need to provide besides access and opportunity, and they decided what about financial aid? This may surprise uh a lot of your listeners, but in the nineteen sixties there was very little financial aid available for students going to college. The Higher Ed Act passed in 1964, and that was the origin, you know, of the Pelt Grant and other kinds of federal financial aid. Well, today there's lots of financial aid available to students coming to college. The problem today is that so many of the students who come to community colleges and truly need the financial aid don't know about it, or if they do hear about it, they don't think they are eligible for it. Last year at the Texas Trustees meeting, there was a panel discussion with five recent community college graduates from Texas community colleges, because all were first generation students, and each one of them said in their own way, when we came to college, San Antonio College or Austin College, and we saw the word scholarship, we knew immediately that was not us. And so they found out about it word of mouth, on the street, from other friends and so forth, and eventually found their way into a financial aid office to get some help. So many of the students who come to us are truly first generation. And sadly, we've made very little progress in really accommodating well the needs of the students who come to us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I appreciate that history learning more about the conversations 50 years ago and where we're at now, and I'm hopeful in our work here and across the country of a deeper recognition of student realities, of unmet financial need, and creative solutions that students are driving. And as you were talking about students who were working, students who were single parents, students who are first generation, and what resources were connecting students with, even beyond Pell Grants, right? So complementary resources and benefits.
SPEAKER_01Miami Dade Community College was the first community college in the country. Now get this, 1986, and the study I did for AACC was 20 years before that. So Miami Dade was the first institution in the nation to publicly say we are going to promote excellence as much as access. And so we know we'll never get to excellence if we don't take care of the real needs, the human needs, the social needs of our students. Well, Bob McKay was the president at that time, and he got about 200 letters from presidents all over the country saying, Are you crazy? I mean, we have these students three or four hours a day, maybe five hours a day. They're working, they've got jobs, they're commuting, they've got too many balls in the air. So many of those college presidents and the board members, those first 50 years, believe that the mission was access. And once we've provided access, that's it. We don't have moral responsibility for child care and clothing or finding jobs. That's not in our statement of being. The college that probably did the best job after Miami Dade was the community college of Denver. Byron McClane is the president there, and they ended up with a process for any student coming to CCD. They put them through an interview process to find out questions like, Do you have a place to stay? Well, it was overwhelming. The number of people who were sleeping on a couch somewhere or sleeping in the back room of a facility somewhere. And so Byron networked then with public housing in Denver County as well as the city of Denver. And before the student could get a course, they got their housing needs addressed. Same thing with food, same thing with child care. The public welfare entity there welcomed the possibility of partnering with Denver Community College. The point is, before they got serious into courses and classes and who would be teaching and the like, they tried to address the human needs that the students had before they got into Denver Community College. We wrote a book about the community college of Denver. And in four years, this college, which was the most diverse community college in Colorado, was leading the state in graduation rates. They got equal results with all races and genders. It's very similar to what Miami Day did, except Miami Day did it earlier without the big picture of looking totally and building a total kind of infrastructure to make sure these students didn't get into classes and have to leave. There are good examples, really good examples. Valencia in Orlando, Florida, Guilford Tech in Gastonia, North Carolina. There are a number of colleges that have won national prizes for completion rates, graduation rates, and the like.
SPEAKER_00Right. And also know in that time, especially in the last five, 10, 15 years, the cost of attendance has gone up exponentially when you factor in not just tuition and fees, but housing costs, food costs, child care, and so these partner agencies are even more critical. That's really a lot of the work that we've been doing in Oregon in considering ways to identify what those non-academic challenges may be. And we also have research that the Hope Center did at Temple University with Dr. Sarah Goldberg-Grab in 2020, that 63% of community college students that completed the survey faced some type of basic needs insecurity over the last year. And that was either food insecurity, housing insecurity, and or students facing houselessness. And that leads me then to this House Bill 2835 that passed in our last legislative session in Oregon, which will provide benefits navigator positions at each of our community colleges, along with our six public universities. I wonder, from your perspective, how you see the role of a benefits navigator supporting student success for today's community college students?
SPEAKER_01I certainly think having a navigator is better than not having a navigator. But the key here is how does the connection get made at a normal community college with three or four or five thousand students, one person and be hard pressed to find 15 minutes per student for the population that truly could need. What I would suggest is letting that negotiator work with faculty and become a kind of lead horse and get faculty involved and let faculty understand what can be done, what connections can be made with other community groups, organizational groups, scholarships. One person's not going to be able to do the navigation, but one person might get 30 or 40 faculty members who care about student success to learn and become messengers and help students get through. One of the things that has very much distressed me over the years has been the large numbers of faculty who would say, well, the attrition rate is atrocious at our college because we take everybody and anybody, but are they human-centered? Do they see teaching as teaching Johnny how to read and write? Or are they teaching reading? And there's a big difference. I'm really sorry that in 50 years with an open-door college, we have not been able to attract more and more faculty who are proficient in the language, but who really care and want to make a difference in the life of another human being. I find there's still a strong focus on blaming the student. Students late to class, they didn't get their work done, their heart is somewhere else, they don't really care. They don't you know. Well, if you're dealing with the reality of that student, they probably shouldn't be taking 15 hours to start with if they've got a job. You know, they they probably should have been cautioned and counseled into two courses, and let's see if we can get them through those two courses successfully because we know if we get them through four classes successfully, their chance of graduation goes up dramatically. So the attrition rate is normally that first semester when they get there. But I like the idea of let's provide not just a pathway to success, but let's find somebody to help the students get on that pathway and move forward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I appreciate your insights there and recognizing that one full-time staff person is not going to be able to support the numbers of students facing basic needs and security. And there's much beyond that in terms of unmet financial need, even if someone has stable housing and food. So I think what we see is one, a community of practice so that colleges can learn together. That's part of the bill, so that we're sharing emerging practices. But also, I believe that benefits navigator, as you described, will have to be almost like a triage person because they can't work with all of the students in need, but they can help bring along colleagues, faculty, as you pointed out, and then other staff. So they become more familiar with these community partners that have complementary support that can help students. And I know colleges in Oregon have already started before this bill to build out in course syllabi a statement that talks about if you're facing food insecurity, there's a food pantry on campus, and here are some other resources. And I know that's a best practice and recommendation from the Hope Center. So there are strategies that that benefits navigator can lead and help educate their peers. I think what you talked about too, in terms of faculty and staff and institutions being student ready as opposed to suggesting our students are not college ready, and what does that truly mean? And how do we meet students where they're at and figure out how we can best support them?
SPEAKER_01I attended a community college, in fact, graduated and was working. I was the first person in my family to go to college, and I had a job. I was a packing supervisor at a textile plant. That was my ticket to go to college. There was no other way. And in October of my freshman year, the mill closed, the economy was bad, and they said we're gonna close for three to four months. Well, I knew right then I might be able to make it through the fall semester, but I definitely had no resources to go forward. I got home that night, and my mother said one of your professors at Mitchell called you and said it was very important for you to call him back tonight. And I said, Well, mother, it's 11 o'clock at night. And she said he said he would be up. It was critical to call him. Well, I mean, I was certainly not a happy camper. I just realized I was probably gonna drop out of college, and I called, and it was my history teacher, a guy named Lewis Brown. I've written about him a lot. And he said, I understand the meal closed today. I said, That's right. He said, Johnny, you were working there, weren't you? I said, Yes, sir. He said, Don't you think about dropping out of college? Don't even consider it. He said, I'm gonna call the dean of students first thing in the morning, we're gonna get on it. He said, You give me a week, and I promise you we will have another job so that you can stay in college. Wow. And he did. He got a job and I kept that job through college. But he didn't say, Well, I'm a history teacher, so I want to tell you about some history. It was like, I'm really here to help you. Twenty-five years after my graduation, our class had a reunion, and they asked me to speak, and it was the first time I told that group about Lewis Brown. Well, when I got through with my speech, I bet you 20 other people from my class stood up and told their Lewis Brown story too. Because Lewis Brown was a human-centered history teacher. And he wasn't the most creative, insightful, humorous history teacher I'd ever had, but he sure as hell cared about students, and students respond to that in powerful and caring ways. They'll work hard. They'll work harder if they believe that they're dealing with somebody who wants to be helpful.
SPEAKER_00What a remarkable story.
SPEAKER_01Lewis Brown one time said, Have you ever thought about what you might do if you really got your backside in gear? I said, But you know, I'm on the deeds list. He said, Yeah, but you could be doing a lot better. If you really decided to get it all going, he said you could have somebody pay your way to school. I didn't know that. I didn't know that there were paid scholarships. But guess what? Lewis Brown was right, and then nobody else in the college had ever said a word to me about that. From that moment on, I was a scholarship student all the way through a PhD. People who cared about you, spent time with you, told you about resources that you didn't know about.
SPEAKER_00And encouraged you to continue on with your education, saw the potential.
SPEAKER_01I like the idea of your podcast. I think it's a great idea. And hopefully it can get into the hands of faculty, advisors, councils, consents, so forth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I appreciate that and hope that we do have listeners who are faculty, staff, administrators, and students. I just want to thank you immensely, Dr. Roosh, for taking the time to have this conversation to share your expertise and just insights from 50 plus years as a pioneer and a leader and a researcher in our field. It's a true honor to get the chance to chat with you and to have you on the podcast and a lot that um reflecting on already of your emphasis on faculty and staff being human-centered and the importance of that to really support our students and even learning then of the history of how colleges stepped out and started to provide more wraparound supports and understanding the full student back to Miami Dade and Community College of Denver and even what is happening there in Austin. So just appreciate you taking the time and sharing all that you have today.
SPEAKER_01My pleasure, Mark. Keep up the good work and stay well and stay in touch.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. You as well. Thanks, Dr. Roos. Take care now. That'll do it for another packed episode of All In Student Pathways Forward. I hope you enjoyed the conversations as much as I did. Thank you for listening in, and we will see you the next time.