223: Dating After Divorce With Guest Kristin Sokol

Dating after divorce can feel like starting over in a body that remembers every hard ending. If you’ve been betrayed, ghosted, or you simply don’t trust your own judgment yet, you’re not alone and you’re not broken. We sit down with dating coach Kristin Sokol to talk about what actually helps people move forward: replacing snap conclusions with curiosity, and building a process that protects your heart without shutting down real possibility.

Kristin shares how her background in journalism and years in matchmaking shaped a research-informed approach to modern dating. We get into common post-divorce dating mistakes, why “all or nothing” thinking kills momentum, and how to create more opportunity by showing up in real life even when the activity isn’t your favorite. You’ll also hear practical guidance on dating apps, including how many apps to use at once to prevent dating app burnout and how to keep online dating from taking over your brain.

Then we go tactical: why a phone call (or better, a video chat) before meeting can save you weeks of confusion, how to use a Google Voice number for privacy, and why Kristin’s “under 90 minutes” first date rule can reduce oversharing, prevent the vulnerability hangover, and set you up for a stronger second date. We also talk about texting and pacing as strategy, not games, plus what makes a strong dating profile when you want to attract the right person, not everyone. Find Kristin @ kristinsokol.com or on social media @kristinsokol

If you’re rebuilding confidence and figuring out dating after betrayal, this conversation gives you clear next steps you can try right away. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s starting over, and leave a review to help more people find support. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Why This Show

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to Happily Even After Betrayal with Life Coach Jen. This podcast is where we talk about betrayal and divorce and what it actually looks like to live through those experiences while still being a parent, a grandparent, a partner, or just a human trying to keep it all together. If your heart feels shattered, your nervous system feels dysregulated, and your future feels unclear, you're in the right place. Here we focus on understanding what happened so you can rebuild your identity, restore your confidence, and find peace. So you can create your happily even after one episode at a time.

Meet Dating Coach Kristen Sokel

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Hey friends, welcome to today's podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Today I have a special guest and I'm so excited. Her name is Kristen Sokel, and she is a dating coach. And I think, especially me, I've been divorced for now four years. And so I thought, I think I need to talk to her. And it's funny because I was watching The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. If you guys haven't watched it, it's very entertaining and very dramatic. If you like drama, and I usually don't really like reality shows, but because this was filmed in Utah, and you know I live in Utah, I thought I better watch this one. And so the last season, she was on one of the episodes. She was the dating coach that they had talking to. Who were you talking to? Well, I was talking to Taylor, but she got along Jesse and Miranda. Yes, right. Yeah, that's right. And so, and they had like a speed dating thing. And you, if you watch a few podcast episodes, I had Bubba Page. He was also on that episode. He's on my podcast a few weeks ago. Anyway, so I thought I'm gonna reach out to her. And so I did. And so thanks so much, Kristen. And so, Kristen, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to become a dating coach.

How Kristen Became A Coach

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Sure. Well, it's such a pleasure to be here. What an honor to be invited. And so nice to meet you, Jennifer. So I got my start. Actually, I uh my career started as a newspaper reporter. Um, I graduated with a with a degree in public relations and went the journalism route. And this was in the early 2000s. Um, my last single friend got engaged to somebody that she met on Yahoo Singles. So that's how long ago this was. You haven't heard that word for a while. Yeah. So she created a dating profile against my will. She had a digital camera, which was a brand new technology in 2004. And I was off and running, and I found that, you know, this shouldn't have surprised me, but it did. My journalistic background made dating online and dating through writing very fun and interesting. So I ended up meeting my husband about four weeks into this process. Don't kill me. Oh my gosh. Um, if it makes you feel better, he had been online dating for years. Anyway, so after we got married, we've now been married 22 years. I started looking for, I just loved online dating so much, and it just didn't last very long for me. So I started actively seeking people who would let me help them, right? Or let me even do it for them. So uh my first victim was my freshman year roommate. She was divorced. Now she'd had a seven-year marriage that ended. And I created a profile for her, and she found somebody that was great. They have been married now almost as long as I have. After that, I uh she referred a friend of hers to me and I kind of ran the same program. I didn't know her especially well, but I had all these skills as a newspaper reporter. So I kind of interviewed her and figured out what she was looking for, and then I put together a profile that I thought would attract that specific type of person, and she got married, and then my brother referred one of his coworkers to me, and I helped my brother's co-worker and he got married. I love this so much. So it was just, it was, you know, I was writing, um, I was still a newspaper reporter. I was writing a government beat, you know, government beat local news articles. And so this was far more engaging and entertaining. So I just kind of ran this program for about five years, and then one of my clients ended up meeting and marrying a gal that worked for a full service matchmaker. And that was really where everything, my whole like the momentum of my life and career really shifted at that point. Working for the matchmaker, I discovered that there was a whole industry, that there was a science and a business behind romance uh education. And so, you know, I got to give a lot of credit to my this, you know, founding matchmaker who brought in skilled experts and and pointed me towards science and research that I had no idea existed. And I just became really fascinated by all of it. So I worked for the matchmaker for a couple of years and then I uh left to seek more education. I I knew that there was something that coaches, real coaches, knew that I didn't know. And so I did a graduate program, um, got a certification as an executive coach, which isn't exactly the same thing as date coaching, but actually the process of coaching is pretty universal no matter what the topic. Um I wanted a little bit more specialty, so I I also became affiliated with a professional group called the Global Love Institute. And this is where ethical and reputable matchmakers from all over the country, all over the world, meet for continuing ed and for certification and for renewal. And we have a conference every year in Manhattan. It just was a few weeks ago, and I was on a panel at the conference, I've presented at the conference, and it's been the place where I have found educated mentors. Like one of my mentors, her name's Dr. Terry Orbach, and she's a university professor in Michigan. She's a marriage and family therapist and teaches the science-based date coaching certification course for the institute. So she has become actually a friend of mine over the years. We've collaborated together a lot. She has been running this study that's now in its 40th year. So she, as part of her postdoctoral work in the late 80s, she started following 373 couples who all got married in 1986. Originally, the study, which is funded by the National Institute of Health, was intending to follow these couples, uh, 373 for the first four years. But the the insights and the the research has been so robust that it has continually been refunded every four years since then. And so there's so much good insight about what keeps people together over time, what causes the end of marriages prematurely. And I have extrapolated a lot of knowledge and wisdom and research-based insights that that helps clients in their process of dating. Yeah. So that's a little bit about my story and my background.

Biggest Post Divorce Dating Mistakes

SPEAKER_00 7:22

So awesome. I love this so much. I have a million other questions. But okay. So one one thing I did want to ask you. So what what are some mistakes that you find people make when they're trying to get out there? And for me and probably most of my clients, we're probably on our second marriage, some of us on more, but we've been married. Yeah. So especially after a divorce, yeah, right. Um very scary. Yes. There we have a lot of reflexes now that we maybe didn't have originally, right? So I work a lot with clients to shift them away from all or nothing thinking, right? Where they think, oh my gosh, if I if I get on a dating app, then it means X, Y, or Z, and this is how it's gonna end up. Or if I go out with this person one time and he's not as tall as I thought he should be, or he's not located in the area that I thought he would be, or um, he has kids that are too young or too old, or right? We have these like ideas about all or nothing, and it really quashes the idea of curiosity. And really, curiosity is what brings good opportunity towards us, right? And we don't have to worry about the end game from the beginning because there are so many steps along the way where we might decide, oh, this is not for me, right? But if we decide this is not for me before we even entertained it for five seconds, I mean you can continue to do that, and and there's no police here that will stop you, but it comes at a really high opportunity cost. There could be great people who are perfect partners for you, but it just hadn't been in at the time or at the place or at the height or at the location that you thought it might be, and we're walking away from opportunities before we even know what they are. Yeah. I totally see this in myself. But but it is true. Like I feel like online dating, though, you see a picture. So you kind of just go off the looks. It's really because I feel like I mean, I know for a fact, if I went off the looks of my first husband from just a picture, I probably would have swiped down on him. Exactly. But I fell in love with his personality, his sense of humor, right? So that's the hard part that I'm finding with online dating. Yeah, it's a total package that we end up falling in love with. Yes, right. And so, you know, you heard me utter in my long diatribe there um the word curiosity, and you'll probably hear me say it many more times. When we are looking at a dating app, your very best ally is your curiosity, right? And your biggest liability is conclusions, right? So I always tell my clients, like, we need to lead with curiosity instead of conclusions. Yeah. Right. Because we don't, the the reality is we don't know. These are strangers, like we have no idea they may be a saint, right? Or may they may be the to the devil in himself. Yes. But we can't find out which end of the spectrum that person is on until we have started to instigate a little bit of curiosity. And it doesn't even take that much sometimes, right? But our if we will go with our our knee-jerk reactions and let them drive the bus, which are by the way, are rooted in fear and are reflexed based on failure and past experience, but are not thinking necessarily about possibilities, right? Or about about opportunities, right? And and some of these things that we that we might approach really uh are not necessarily about, oh, I'm super interested in this person, but it's allowing ourselves to get closer to that type of person,

Build A Real World Referral Network

SPEAKER_00 11:16

right? Or to that tribe of places, like you know, shifting away just from thinking about dating apps, like you might, you know, you might get invited to play pickleball, right? And you're not into pickleball. But actually, it's not about if you love to play pickleball or if you're really great at pickleball. The thing is we want to connect you with with a network of active, sociable singles that can, you know, shimmy back and forth across the court without having a heart attack. Yeah, right. That's what we want to get you investing in is seeing who's there. I don't care at all if you enjoy playing Biggleball, but I want you to have these opportunities. Yeah, I I do agree with that because we have to put ourselves in places that you never know. Now, I must say I did volunteer to go to the Pray to Homes and help my friend who built this home. And I thought, you never know who I'm gonna meet at the Pray to Homes. And right, I didn't meet anyone, but I I had that thought. I'm like, maybe, right? Yeah, so absolutely, and that is definitely the attitude. And you know, anytime you have an opportunity to be in a place where you don't normally go, right? This is this is a rare opportunity to to volunteer or to be at the parade of homes. Yeah. And I would say chances that the next love of your life is going to be at the parade of homes at the same time that you are is low. But chances that you meet somebody who could potentially know that person actually are much higher. Right. So your opportunity comes from showing up at the parade of homes and being friendly and warm and engaging. And, you know, some cute gal walks by and you like her purse, you tell her you like her purse and you strike up a conversation and follow each other on social media, and she finds out you're single and then she fixes you up with her brother. Yeah. Right. And like through the parade of homes or any opportunity to be in some place, you know, a volunteering gig or somebody else's family reunion, or, you know, as people get to know you and they like you, and they also know that you happen to be single, that's how you like really start to build and activate your own referral network. But sometimes we we again we're thinking all or nothing. Either my love, the love of my life will be also at the parade of homes and I'll look good while I'm there. Yeah. And so we'll find each other in the universe, or it was a total waste of my time. Yeah. And really the opportunity is in the middle of those two things where you happen to meet, connect with somebody, you get a business card, and you know, in a follow-up conversation, they find out you're single. And but first you find out that you went to the same high school, and you know, that's where the connection gets like we're stoking a fire. Yeah. Right? Where we're putting on pieces of kindling or or dry grasses, and that's gonna happen always before we start a big, you know, log on fire. Yeah, so true. I think that's kind of why I'd like the Facebook dating app because you can see who they're friends with, and you're like, oh yeah, I I like that person, or like, oh, they're friends with them. Yes, you can see the mutuals. Yeah, you know something, which is kind of nice too. But I don't know if all I don't think any, at least I haven't experienced it. So would you say if you want to be dating, you're would you get on all of the apps, or do you think it's better just to have a couple? Like,

How Many Dating Apps To Use

SPEAKER_00 14:51

is there like a what do you think? So, you know, I think different different strokes for different folks. Yeah, you know, some people can handle five or six apps at one time. I know I could not do that. I told you I I was at this uh Global Love Institute conference in New York a couple of weeks ago, and somebody there, one of the speakers talked to shared some research about what the average is. So if you're a a dating app user, the average dating app user is on three dating apps at once. Okay. I, you know, from my so I I coach, you know, f between four and six clients a day. I've been doing this for in some form for about 20 years. And I would tell you my from my lived experience, when you are on more than two dating apps at a time, people get my clients get burned out faster. And I would say too fast, right? Because, you know, dating app is a passive way, it's an easy passive way to meet people. But if you fire it up and it takes too much time and attention, it feels like it should be producing more good candidates than it really can, then you're gonna get aggravated with it and you're gonna walk away from it. Yeah. And so so my best advice, you know, rooted in my own experience and opinion too, so take that for what it's worth, is to slow play it, right? And and I would say no more than two at a time. I do, I do like more than one. Sometimes we kind of we exhaust the one resource, right? Where we've kind of seen everybody who's decent on there. And so if we can like shift our focus to another one for a couple of weeks while we give the other one time to replenish, that is helpful. Yeah. But yeah, if we get if we get more than two, then I find that the burnout factor gets too hot and heavy. Yeah, I agree. I think I agree with that. So if someone does, we meet, we meet someone on one of the apps and we we're gonna

Phone Calls And The 90 Minute Date

SPEAKER_00 16:59

go on a date. Do you have any do's or don'ts that we should think about when we're going out? Absolutely, I do. Yes, all day, every day. Okay, so first of all, I um should we do like an always and a never thing? Yeah, I would always have at least a phone call, at least a telephone call before I met anybody in real life, right? Which means you got to give them your number, which uh many people don't want to do. And um, my answer to that is yeah, you do just get just get a Google Voice number or any burner number you want. There's a million different ways. If you give them your number, you could block them. You can always block them, but that doesn't stop them from calling you from another number. All right, but if you get a burner number or a Google Voice number, then you can kill that number and they can never reach you. Okay. I don't know. That would be the advantage. Okay. But you can so our brains do a really good job, uh, or I mean, do a job of filling in the details with what it thinks this person who you're texting is like based on your map of the world and the other people that you've known in the world, but you've in reality never met this person and you don't know if he comes from your map of the world. Yeah, right. So you can tell more about a person in a five-minute phone call than you can texting them for weeks. Um, so I I love a phone call. I actually love a video chat more, right? Because then you get context of what does their space look like. Yeah, I I'm I'm sending you intentional messages with what my space looks like, and so are you. Yes, right. And so we want to gather as much context. Plus, you can validate that this person looks on camera the same way that his photos looked. And so I yeah, they're not in Zimbabwe trying to Nigeria or wherever, like the scammers, right? The catfish. Yes, yes, these, yes, the Southeast Asia. That's where the scam farms all are. Yeah, yeah. Okay, all right. Um, do you wanna do you want the so that's my always? Do you want to hear a never? Yes, the never I do. I want to hear I would never let my first date go more than 90 minutes. Especially if it was going well. Especially if it was going well. And here's why. You know, I have worked with clients for ages, and I don't know how many first dates I've been through. And they come back and they say, Oh my gosh, the first date was so magical. We like closed the restaurant down. We were together for f almost four hours, and I can't wait to hear from them again. And days go by, yeah. Right, where they haven't heard from him again. And what happens is when we spend too much time on a first date, there's nowhere for us to grow, right? If he asks you out again and he doesn't have another four hours to give you, right? It might feel like I don't want to disappoint her, but I don't have another four hours to give this, right? And so I don't know what to do. So the, you know, the first few days of not hearing from them about their hesit or about their hesitation about not knowing what to do, and then the next few days are about like, oh my gosh, I should have reached out by now and I haven't, and now I don't know what to do, and then you just got ghosted. Right. So I was ghosted. I didn't know I was ghosted until my kids said they're like, Mom, he ghosted you. I was like, Yes, he ghosted you. You can ghosted. Yes. So the other problem with staying too long on a first date is we get into some of the vulnerable places that we ought not be. On a first date, if you've been together for four hours, well, we're probably talking about exes and betrayals and you know, stuff that is hard and deep, and it's not fun and sexy. And so chances are that you're gonna want to go on a second date are lower because of the heaviness of the fur what the first date was. Like we were both in agreement and we shared this dialogue, but now we it almost comes with a vulnerability hangover that ends up costing you opportunity in the future. Where if you guys sat at a table for under 90 minutes, and really an hour is probably better, and you found out that you went to the same high school or you went to the same college and you cheered at some of the same football games, and maybe you guys both worked at Subway sandwiches when you were teenagers, and um, maybe you have a friend in common that you both worked with and and then it was over, like you would be chomping at the bit to talk to that person again. Yeah. Right. And there would be an immediate reach out of uh of of desire and connection and hope for what the next thing could be like. Yeah. Right. But we we we reach a point of diminishing returns when we allow the dates that are going well to keep going forever. Yeah. I definitely made lots of popas on my first date. Well, we all do. That's why I have work. Yes, yes. So texting, like, is it appropriate?

Texting Strategy And The Queso Rule

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Like, I mean, I just I don't like the games, right? The thought, like, oh, you have to, you can't text someone, you know, the certain amount of hours or days or right? Like the youth, the kids nowadays have all these rules. But when I grew up, like that, first of all, there was an online dating. And so it's different. Do we need to play those games? Like, is that important? Or like what's the rule on all that? So I want you to think about this. I want to give you a metaphor. Like, you know, if you were if you were moving, right, and you were gonna put your house for sale, you don't just like let somebody come in your house lived in as is, right? You're gonna stage it and you're gonna make your house shine the way you know that your house can shine, right? So we're gonna we're gonna take pictures from flattering angles and we're gonna we're gonna remove some of the clutter and remove some of the furniture just because it seems bulky, right? And so, in a similar way, it is a little bit important to stage your time and your communication with how you onboard somebody. I just I have a client that lives in Texas, and he went on a first date over the weekend, and um they went to a baseball game. So it was a long first date. Uh-huh. And they immediately started texting, texting, texting. They held hands on the date. And so now we're entering like this like relationship territory, and we come with this reflex in our bodies, like your ancestors were survivors, right? Mine were too. We have this survival instinct. And what what that survival instinct says is safe is maintaining status quo. Right. And so if all of a sudden, in a quick manner, somebody is trying to onboard themselves into your life and change the status quo, even if we like them, we sometimes try to resist this happening. Yeah. Right. And so I won't say like it's a great idea, just text as much as you want and you know, let it all out. But I do think there is uh a psychological benefit to you giving like not crumbs, right? More than crumbs, but like being smart in in how you dose your your availability to them and what they know about you and how and and the cadence of that communication. So I wouldn't call it a game, I would call it strategy. Um, and I kind of think about it like um my clients laugh when I give them this this uh analogy, but my favorite food in the whole world is queso. I just cannot get enough. I love chips and salsa. I love chips and queso even better, right? And when they bring you, you go to a restaurant, they bring you like a little dish of queso, right? You maybe get, you know, it's like a half a cup or something. Like a half a cup. Yeah, and every bite is a treasure, right? If somebody came and brought me five a five-gallon bucket of queso, I would be so overwhelmed, even though it's my favorite thing. Yeah, like I wouldn't want to waste it, but I also I don't have anywhere to store five gallons of queso. Yeah, I know I'm not gonna be able to eat through all of that, right? So I I think it's smart for us to not overserve, especially in the beginning. So we could call that games or we could call that strategy, but you know, our psych we're working with the limitations of our own psychology and our own aversion to change. I love that analogy. And that I do, I I like strategy so much better than games. Yes. It is it is, I think, a strategy, especially for me. I'm in my 50s thinking getting remarried, I'm gonna be much more strategic and intentional than I was when I got married at 25. Yes, probably, right? Like I've so much more experience. Anyways, my yeah, whole thought process will be different. And what you'd be attracted to is gonna be totally different too, as well. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. So,

What Makes A Strong Dating Profile

SPEAKER_00 26:08

profiles, some do's and don'ts, a few do's and don'ts of a profile. A good profile has what and what it doesn't have. I can give you what I think it doesn't have, but what but tell me what you think a good profile has if you're gonna set up a dating app. Okay, great. Yeah, that's a really good question. So I I I would tell you it's really important to begin with the end in mind. What who are we writing to, right? And what is gonna bring their responsiveness to your profile? So, and by the way, there's different strokes for different folks out there, right? And yeah, you know, we were talking kind of before we started recording, we were talking about like chest hair and you know, beer belly. And some some gals are probably into that. It's not you for sure. Yeah. Um, so we've got to think about what it is that you're trying to attract. And then we want to put together a profile that illustrates that you are a catch for that person, right? And we're gonna we're gonna use items, uh, so photos and also blurbs that that are gonna be irresistible. They'll have to respond to them, right? Because uh, and that's really what makes a good profile is when you are thinking of your end user and what would bring them into a conversation with you. Yeah. So it's different for no matter for everyone, no matter what you're I mean, just depending on what you're looking for. Yeah. Oh, I love that so

Where To Find Kristen And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 27:30

much. Well, Kristen, it was so nice having you on. I have a million more questions, but we might have to have you back on because I have a feeling a lot of people listening to this, it's gonna be helpful. It's so helpful for me. I'm like, okay, I think I need a dating coach. So if someone wants to find you and get information about you, how would they do that? Sure. Well, a couple ways. I'm on Instagram, Kristen Sokel. That's very fancy handle there. Okay, that's okay. And Sokol is spelled S-O-K-O-O. Yep. And Justin with an Justin with an I-N. Yes. Okay. Just like you would spell Justin with an IN. Okay. Kristen with an E N, but that's but that's not the way that's not the right way. Um and then I also have a website, which is Kristen Sokel.com. Okay. Um on that on my website, I have a contact me form. I have a start here form. You can read all about, you know, the services that I offer. I have I have a group coaching uh cohorts that I am not always the doors are not always open for that. Um I'm actually just starting a group tomorrow. So it might be a few weeks before my doors are open again, but always good a good idea to get on the waiting list. Yeah. And then I do work with people one-on-one as well. Okay, where, you know, I have a lot of insights and almost like a curriculum that really helps daters kind of no matter where you are, do a reset and a rethink. You know, we have reached some of these conclusions a long time ago and for very valid reasons, but those conclusions are now outdated, right? They've reached a point of diminishing returns. And so, really, my main job as a dating coach is to help people see what's working for them and do let's do more of it. Let's maximize it and then see what's not working for them, and let's find a way around some of these obstacles. And I do that through one-on-one or group coaching, right? Or you can just follow me. I'm happy to do big thing or you're so good to have an email list and and uh keep in touch with people. I'm I'm not the greatest at that, but I am always putting out content on socials and and for my clients. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I hope everyone found this as helpful as I did. And anyways, thanks so much for being here today, and I will talk to you next week. Have a great weekend.

Free Betrayal Quiz And Closing

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Happily Even After Betrayal. If you want to understand what stage of betrayal you're in, head to my website at lifecoachgen.com. That's Jen with one N, and take the free quiz. It's a simple step you can take today toward creating your own happily even after.