The Flowing Church! ... English & French

What if the difference between a stagnant ministry and a multiplying one is a single idea: flow. We unpack how movement—not mere activity—creates life in a church, drawing from vivid biblical metaphors of rivers that bring renewal and a bloodstream that sustains the body. With guest pastor and author Brother Sayers, we chart practical pathways that guide people from seekers to believers, believers to disciples, and disciples to ministers, while guarding against the bottlenecks that keep gifted people on the sidelines.

We break flow into three domains—into, within, and out of the church—and examine three vital streams across them: people, resources, and service. You’ll hear how to build ministry pathways that actually move, why rotating and releasing leaders accelerates growth, and how to spot red flags like centralized control, unclear roles, and overprogramming. On the resource side, we talk cheerful giving, financial transparency, and the mindset shift from scarcity to stewardship that funds mission without burning out a few faithful givers.

Service culture gets a hard look too: how to cultivate joyful volunteers, avoid burnout, and extend impact beyond four walls through collaboration, district events, and community service. We also introduce a simple measurement model—lead and lag metrics—that helps leaders audit momentum and make spirit-led, practical adjustments. The challenge lands personal and clear: tend your spiritual inflow through prayer and the Word, then pour out. Be a river, not a reservoir.

Along the way, we share updates from Europe, celebrate church milestones, cast vision for the New York crusade, and invite you to join a movement that measures what moves and sends people with purpose. If you’re ready to replace busywork with meaningful motion, press play, take notes, and start unblocking the stream. If this spoke to you, subscribe, share with a leader who needs it, and leave a review with one action you’ll take to be the flow.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1639030158?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_VZBSV9T4GT4AMRWEWXJE&skipTwisterOG=1

Transcript

Prayer And Opening Blessing

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Himakaya sidi and dormosata la la ba sata. In the name of the Lord. Hallelujah, Marikad. In the name of the Lord, in the name of the Lord, in the name of the Lord. So Yasanda la bashataya si. I plead the blood over every nation, every city, every state, every region that is represented here today. I plead the blood. In the name of the Lord, in the name of the Lord, in the name of the Lord. I greet you in the mighty name of Jesus from Columbus, Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Salute Seigneur Jesus depuis Columbus in Ohio.

New York Crusade Vision And Mobilization

Guest Introduction And Setup

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I just got in last night from uh Germany, from Bonn, Germany. And what a joy it was to spend this last weekend with Pastor and Sister Mario and the Church of Acts in Bonn. We were celebrating their eighth-year anniversary service. As you know, they're in a new building. And it's beautiful what the Lord has done through that transition. And to see such a move of God in that brand new building under the leadership of Pastor and Sister Marillo and their team, it was just an incredible joy. And of course, they are still needing some financial assistance with that transition and bringing that building up to readiness for for the kingdom work that God has ahead of them. We talked about how to reach Europe. How to reach the unaffiliated community, the other denominational churches in that region. Then of course I got uh I come back back uh home and I actually had a another six-hour layover in in New York. And so I left the airport and went and did a little prayer walk in Times Square again and walked the city. And I want to remind everybody about uh the crusade in New York that's going to be our May 24th through May 30th. And I want to encourage everybody to be on that crusade team for New York next year, May 24th through the 30th. Um on the at the end of this month to plan this crusade. And I just want to encourage everybody to be praying for New York. Be praying for that crusade. It is the only crusade that we're gonna have from January to July next year. And it is going to be a very exciting mission, New York. And so pray about how you're gonna be there, how you're going to help fund it. But I know it's going to be such a blessing to God's global church. But today we are exceptionally excited about our guest on Apostolic Mentoring. I'm pretty sure that's offensive. I'm not sure, but I think the wow was in reference that we must be old. Pastor Brother Dunn, that is the wrong time to put wow in a chat. Now we have people putting wow with three exclamation points. Yes, yes, brother Sayers and I are old. But he is much older. That makes me happy. I will always be younger than him. That makes me happy. And matter of fact, I think one of the first teams that I ever led overseas, Brother Sayers was my assistant on that trip and came with me. And we traveled, I don't even, I think we did like six or seven countries in like an eight day period of time. It was the classic Brother Robinette and Brother Sayers on acid move.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

In fact, I think the first we have he was my assistant. We have visited uh six people, and it's long, but it was a moment.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

We were just out of control. We thought we could just take we could take Europe by storm, and in eight days we just visited as many countries as possible. As we got off, they just kept going. The first book is called Indefensible.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

The premier Sans Defense.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

And the second book is called The Flowing Church.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

And the two Croissant.

The Flowing Church Concept

SPEAKER_01 14:11

And don't worry, once I turn this over to Brother Sayers, I will put this in the Facebook chat, the Zoom chat. You'll have a link to that, you can go right to it. But I am so excited to have my friend Brother Sayers here today to impart and equip us for kingdom work. And I'm so thankful for all the years the Lord has allowed me to serve alongside of you in his kingdom all around the world. We lost Sister Corinna.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Sister Corinna, I lost you there, huh? Yeah, I got you again.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

There you go. All right, Brother Sayers, I love you. Take your liberty, do whatever God says to do.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Amen.

Flow In Scripture And Theology

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Thank you, Brother Robinet. I appreciate the uh kind introduction, and uh it's it's hard to be online with you without reminiscing. When you're in the church of Almighty God, or you're gonna make memories. That's just the way it goes. So I'm gonna uh share my screen here, and hopefully everyone can see this. And um today it may be a little bit different than a typical uh apostolic mentoring format. Um I'm gonna take some elements from the uh book The Flowing Church and present it in a little bit more of a presentation form. And this is an idea the Lord gave me almost about a year ago. And um so I wrote a book. And um I'd like to start just by praying and asking the Lord to guide us. Can we do that? Lord, I thank you for this group tonight and for this opportunity. Lord, be glorified in every word, in every thought, in every gesture, in every question that comes up, in every uh way, Lord, we ask that you would guide us in your spirit, that your church would benefit, that your church would grow, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Lord, we thank you for the power of the Holy Spirit that goes with us and before us. And I ask in the name of Jesus that you would anoint every translator, that you would anoint every hearer, and Lord, that this would be a prophet to your kingdom in the name of Jesus. Amen. Amen. So um the the tagline uh of the flowing church, and again I'm gonna go uh sort of quickly here, is the a flowing a flowing church is a growing church. And the goal that I have today in presenting this are these. First, to introduce the idea of flow. And what that means in the context of the church. To make flow visible flow visible to saints and ministers in the church with the purpose of directing action, uh, also to give some tools for assessing church health, and as an encouragement to make spirit-led practical adjustments for movement and sustainability in the church, for le movement. And lastly, I'll say uh this book came out pretty quickly, so it I encourage feedback on the contents and especially of examples, and I'll talk more about that at the end. So I want to start just by saying that flow is biblical. And it starts with time. Time flows without stopping. Indeed, life comes and goes. And time passes us without stopping. And Brother Robinet was commenting how old I am. And I think the older you get, the more you have the impression that time is accelerating. The more years you have behind you, it seems the quicker the years come at you. Also, flow is vital, uh, Ezekiel 47 and 9. Everything that liveth which moveth, the rivers shall come and shall live. Sorry if I'm going too fast, sis.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Okay.

Defining Flow And Why Motion Matters

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Um everything shall live whither the river cometh. Now, this is talking about, you know, you could interpret this a couple of different ways. But I believe the Lord uses flow in connection with life, and I believe also with the life of the church, repeatedly. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh and whither it goeth, so is everyone that is born of the spirit. So let's look at some traditional definitions of flow. Webster tells us it's an to issue or to move in a stream. Or to circulate. Movement is inherent in flow. And in that, I believe God is interested in our condition or our level personally and as a church. But I would propose God's more interested in our motion. Where are we going, individually and corporately? What's our movement? Flow is important. Psalm 1 and 3 tells us he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water that bringeth forth his fruit in his season. His leaf also shall not wither, and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. Is that flow is also personal. And Luke 6 45 goes a little bit further.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Luke six carried sine va a plus loin.

River And Bloodstream Metaphors

Three Domains Of Church Flow

SPEAKER_00 24:23

It says, out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks. The first is a river. Psalm 46, 4 says there's a river whose streams make glad the city of God. And it goes from high to low ground. It operates with gravity. And so I believe God's power and mandate pulls us forward in similar nature. If you are living in the spirit of Almighty God, that spirit will propel you like water in a river. And it'll be reinforced by the mandate that God gives us in the Great Commission. So we could use some of these features of a river and make some analogies to the church. And then there are obstructions like sin and fear and maybe bottlenecks within leadership. Leviticus 17, 11 tells us the life of the flesh is in the blood. It's driven by the heart, and the heart beat. It just needs to be in certain limits. So we could make an analogy of blood pressure's leadership tension and stress, and that that urge to move forward. Inside within the church, inside. That the church be strengthened. And after that happens, we see in Galatians 6 and 10. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men. Especially unto them who are of the household of faith. So this would be an example of works, helps flowing out of the church. So in addition to those domains, I'd like to talk about these three types of flow: people, resources, and service. So if we want to think of it here, using our three domains. We have uh a flow of resources. Um, and actually this should be people. I'm I uh the should the sorry this should be people uh flowing uh into the church in the form of visitors. Within the church, into various ministries, roles, and tasks. And people flowing out of the church for things like church planting. So that's the first one. So people flow, the basis of that, Ephesians 4 and 11, as we just read. Acts 6, 1 and 7, we read that.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Acts 6, verse 1 and 7 for multiplying ministry.

People Flow: Pathways And Signs

SPEAKER_00 34:01

And 1 Corinthians 12 and 7. Where every believer receives a manifestation of the Spirit for the common good of the church. So I want to take each of these uh types of flow and look at it a little bit closer, uh, and look at the direction or the objective of this people flow. Taking people from being seekers to believers to disciples to ministers. From not knowing God to serving God. To take people from observation into participation into leadership. This is the vital lifeblood of the church. From being one group of people in a church to equipping leaders, to preaching points, to daughter works. So we could look at what are the signs of healthy people flow. How do we know the people are flowing in the in the kingdom of God? First, we could see the people are engaged beyond just being in service on Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Bible studies, prayer meetings, house group meetings, service outside the church, service, also clear discipleship and ministry pathways, like that river bed, directing the flow.

Removing Barriers To People Flow

Resource Flow: Giving And Transparency

SPEAKER_00 36:23

And I I'm sure we've all seen uh uh canals that have been dug out to direct the flow of a river. Interesting story here. I was last week in Strasbourg, France. And right near there the Rhine River comes through, dividing Germany and France. And an engineer in the 1800s had the idea to take this meandering river and to make it straight for the purpose of facilitating ship navigation. And it affected the actual border between these two countries. Rotation and the release of leaders, not static roles. Or maybe somebody uh in a in an assistant position where really they could be a very capable leader with given challenge. Also the church leadership looking for new opportunities inside and outside the church. Sometimes we've seen ourselves and others maybe uh consumed with what's going inside the church and not ever looking for a challenge. Now, if anybody's ever spent any time with Charles Robinet, you will find challenge. Because that's just the kind of person he is. As soon as he's got a routine down, he will find a challenge. And I believe that's what the Spirit of God does in us, we are not uh uh satisfied with the status quo. Also the regular integration of new believers. Getting people plugged in. They don't even they can't even pronounce the word holiness, but we can use them for something. They may not have any understanding of scripture, but they can be used somewhere. To feel a part of the church. Also teaching that equips all believers for ministry. And not just a select few. And I suspect if we did, we would see some growth. So there are things that could block flow, like centralized leadership without delegation. A lack of clarity on spiritual gifts and callings, a man spiritual and over programming. So we could ask ourselves, are people being equipped and empowered? Is there a place for every person to serve and grow? Is leadership being multiplied? And that's a tough one. Not that we're necessarily inventing things to do for people, but we're looking for opportunities to plug people in. And is the church sender sending or endeavoring to send? So that's the flow of people. Now let's take a look at resource flow. 2 Corinthians 9 talks about a cheerful giving. With the result of abundance. So if we look at the flow of resources going in could be tithes, offerings, gifts, and talents. Anybody ever been involved in a youth fundraiser? I think we've all been there. That's flow inside the church. That's flow of resources to invest in our youth. Many examples there. But we could ask ourselves, has a ministry ever been stopped or stalled because of the lack of resources? That's flow within the church. And the flow out of the church is giving to missions, to benevolence, and also community investment. So we could look at healthy resource flow as consistent giving. Financial transparency. Investment in ministries and external missions. Resource sharing with other churches. And also church planting and outreach. Barriers could be the fear or lack of or scarcity mindset. Lack of transparency. We don't know where the money's going, so we don't give. And accountability goes along with that. Maybe a lack of teaching on stewardship. God is given to us, and so we have a responsibility with what God gives us. Or an over reliance on a few donors. There's a hard, it's a di it's difficult to flow inside the church. So next is service. Galatians 5 talks about serving one another in love. And 1 Peter 4 talks about using gifts to serve others. So if we look at the flow of service, we could look at the fivefold ministry and other support and building flowing into the church. Inviting guest ministers. Flow of service into the church. Within the church, ministries supporting each other. People supporting and serving each other. And flowing out of the church, we could look at maybe district events, might be a camp or a conference. Something in the community. Or supporting maybe other churches in the district. Sending them a musician if they need one. Helping them with some aspect of ministry. Signs of healthy service flow could be a sustainable volunteer culture with joy. Ministries to both spiritual and practical needs. Barriers could be burnout. Anybody ever felt that way after uh a summer where you've been going to camps and doing all kinds of things? Or there could be an inward focus of the church with no in community engagement, just focusing on what's happening in the four walls. Or maybe just some confusion because of a lack of clarity in roles. Into the church, within the church, and out of the church. Putting together the three domains and the three types. And so we could look at that matrix of these that combination. Observing what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

Observing.

Measuring Flow: Lead And Lag

SPEAKER_00 51:11

How many people have gone through some training? Once we know what to measure, then may we audit that every once in a while. Then we get together as a leadership team and assess it. And then doing all these things, we use a healthy combination of lead and lag measures. So a lead measure might be, for example, uh how much we do in uh uh promotion and and getting the word out in our community. So that we can then attract people to come and visit. Or maybe it might be uh how we reach out as individuals to our friends to invite them to coffee and talk about or maybe have a Bible study. And a lag measure might be uh how many people we had in church. It might be um you know how how many uh churches we've planted over the last ten years. So this is a way of managing our church flow. So having seen all this, I want to encourage every one of us online tonight to be the flow. To activate flow. To not be slaughter in business, but fervent in the spirit, serving the Lord. And to be encouraged. It's talking about flow. And the final call I'd like to give is to tend to the flow into you. You could call this spiritual hunger or spiritual thirst. Pray. Hear the word of the Lord, read the word of the Lord, take flow into your life personally, take stock of where you are and what you're doing, and do something about it. Be a river, not a reservoir. Don't look at what you can attain and hold for yourself, but look at what you can pour out of yourself. If flow is missing, pray and consider how to create flow. The flow in the church comes from individual flow. Be a conduit and not a consumer. You're not part of the church just to be in the church. You're part of the church to be the church and to flow through the church. And the reason for that flow is to give life. Where the spirit of God flows, life flows. And you're going to be the person that flows to your friends, to your family, to people that you work with. And what flows into you can flow out of you. So as we're wrapping up here tonight. If you're interested in more detail here and I go into a lot more detail in the book, you can uh get the flowing church. And you can follow this link for more information and also for a newsletter and even to set up an appointment to talk. And Brother Robinet also mentioned the other book, Indefensible. It's kind of a challenging book. Because I was very challenged and it kind of flowed from that challenge. And so with that, I will give the word back to uh Brother Robinet.

Be The Flow: Personal Charge

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Amen. Praise the Lord, everybody. I'm trying to figure out how to get my screen back here. Awesome. Thank you so much, Brother Sayers. That was an awesome, awesome lesson. Uh I did not mention to you in the beginning, but Brother Sayers also has his own consulting firm. And I would encourage every pastor, every minister, anybody who's involved in any type of ministry locally or globally. Brother Sayers, could you put that in the Facebook chat as well while we're live right now? Maybe. I'm not logged in. Okay, don't worry about it. I can do it in just a minute. Okay. Um actually, I know Sister Bishop's actually online Facebook right now as well. Sister Bishop, would you copy that email address and the link that Brother Sayers just put in and put that in the chat? Um, I want to encourage everybody, please, please, please. Um, this is tremendous. Um, Sister Robinette was texting me while the session was going on, and she was loving this, and she was saying, This is the how. Not on accident, but intentionally. Not being unwilling to look over our processes and pathway and flow. But intentionally looking at what's flowing in, what's flowing out, and I loved what he said at the end. That we have to be intentional and personal about uh the flow that that we're engaged in. What is the spiritual flow look like in my life? What is the ministry flow look like in my life? What is the word flow look like in my life? An objective review of those questions would probably be a catalyst for continued growth in your life. So I want to encourage everybody, number one, get the book. Number two, reach out to Brother Sayers and and schedule a time that you can have a consultation about flow, both from a church perspective and even a personal perspective. And we've said a lot about Brother Sayers today, but he's also a missionary to Germany. And he speaks German, Spanish, French. A little bit of English. I think he actually speaks another language, don't you, Brother Sayers? Well, a little Italian. But my point is there's So many audiences on apostolic mentoring from a linguistic standpoint. And those those Spanish speaking, French speaking, uh German speaking, Italian speaking communities that are a part of Apostolic Mentoring that need help with flow locally, personally, globally, can reach out to Brother Sayers and be a part of this community coaching uh initiative.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

The community parle Italian, Espanyol, Almond, France or Angle have connected facility to have a rendezvous for aid to the flow.

Books, Consulting, And Next Steps

Host Reflections And Applications

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Yeah, thank you, Brother Torsi. He just put in the chat, please sign me up. This is this is what we need. We need to talk about flow. We need to be open about where we are and where we want to go. So thank you again, Pastor Sayers. Thank you for your missionary leadership in Germany. Thank you for writing this great book. All the books that you've written, we we thank you for that. And again, I just want to say thank you to the Apostolic Mentoring Community and the Global Harvest Community. You can strap it to your belt or you can pull it out and go to work. I want to go to work. I want to get in the flow. I want to be the flow. If you want to be the flow, why don't you just type that in the chat right now? Be the flow. I don't want to just talk about the flow. I want to be the flow in the kingdom of God. It's so important. To be intentional about being the flow in God's kingdom. Stagnant water is dying water. Flowing water is alive. And I want to be the flow in God's kingdom. But what a great, great session we've had here today. It's the last crusade of the year. We leave there on Monday. It's been such a blessing. But uh just wanted to make mention to our community. And the Pentecostals of Geneva, of course, are always helping the apostolic mentoring community. And I want to ask our community to be praying for Pastor Acca and his family. Be in prayer for the Pentecostals of Geneva. I know they're all carrying a heavy burden right now for Pastor Acca and for his family. And Sister Corina, who is translating today, is out of the Pentecostals of Geneva. And of course, she has great love for Mama Acca, and of course, for Pastor Acca as well. And I surely didn't mean to pull on your heartstrings, Sister Corina. That was an accident.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

But we love the Pentecostals of Geneva and we love Pastor Acca. And I was talking to Sister Caroline from the Church of Acts in Bonn and Pastor Sayers as well. And of course, Mama Akka, I pastored Mama Akka for over a decade. But when Bri was born, she's this little white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed baby. And when we'd show up to church on Sundays, Mama Akka would strap that little white baby to her back. She'd strap her to her back like she was a Ghanaian baby. She'd dance around the church with my baby strapped to her back. And she'd spoil my little baby just rotten. But I can remember so many times looking down while I was preaching and Brebri being completely asleep on Mama Akka's shoulder, oh right behind her. Mama Akka is a great woman of God. Mama Aka is who has impacted so many nations and so many people all around the world. She invested in so many lives, including my daughters very personally. So many people are putting stuff in the chat that were connected to Mom Akka, and I appreciate that. But if you would just please be in prayer for Pastor Akka and the Pentecostals of Geneva. And Sister Debbie and the Vinkelar family in Great Britain and Netherlands. And there's family members, of course, of Mama Akka in Ghana and even in, like I said, Great Britain. And we just want everybody to show their love to Pastor Aka and their family around the world. Well, we love you all. Thank you for being on Apostolic Mentoring today. And I will be coming to you live from Zambia next uh week. And looking forward to a great apostolic mentoring session together. Why don't you do what you always do? Take yourselves off mute and say goodbye. Thank you, brother Sayers. Greetings. Thank you, brother Sayers. Thank you, brother Sayers. God bless you. Thank you, brother. Mr. Kumon, Brother Sayers.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Excellent. God bless you.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

Thank you, brother, for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

We love you, brother and sister Robert.