Niche Business Strategy: Why Narrow Focus Beats Going Broad

Clementine Schouteden built a multimillion-pound e-commerce business selling premium products for Guinea pigs.

Not small pets. Not rodents. Just Guinea pigs.

As founder and CEO of Kavee (bootstrapped across UK, Europe, and US), Clementine spent 10 years being asked "why not expand?"

Her answer changed how to think about focus.

What you'll hear:

Why 100% relevance to a small community beats 1% relevance to millions. Clementine explains the math behind this that most founders miss. It's not what you'd expect.

The choice she made at the growth inflection point. Expand to more species or expand geography? One would've been a vanity move that probably killed the business. The other built the foundation for everything.

How to create a market that didn't exist. Before Kavee, there was no premium Guinea pig market. Clementine built an eight-figure market from scratch. She explains what that actually requires.

The shift that unlocked growth after two flat years. Clementine changed one question she asks about everything. That question changed how her team works, how they ship, and what they're willing to do.

Why she gives her team permission to miss deadlines. This sounds risky. What actually happened will surprise you.

What "ambitious actions" means vs ambitious words. Clementine was always ambitious. But there was wishful thinking in the middle. She breaks down what changed.

The question every founder should ask. "What does my business need that I can give it?" How Clementine answers this determines everything.

The reality:

Focus is underrated. Most founders spread too thin too early. Clementine was nowhere near tapping her market when people said expand.

Going narrow built muscles she can use anywhere.

One action: Listen to the end for the question that changed everything.

More from James:

Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I stumbled across a gap, an enormous gap, which was the guinea pig market, or rather the small pet market. Um and I literally remind my you know, like I can remember Googling was the next best thing. If I can get a dog, what is the the best the best proxy to a dog? And Google came up with guinea pigs and I was like, okay, interesting, you know.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Wow. And so how how do you feel then staying small? Because you have stayed very focused on guinea pigs. How do you feel that gives you an operational advantage?

SPEAKER_02 0:32

The best way to to express it is I am 100% relevant to a small community. If I was a general pet brand, I would be one person relevant to millions of people. You know? The beauty of having a business is that you can you can take it many places, you can transform it, you can make it evolve, you can you can try different things, right? And that's what's exciting me nowadays, is like, okay, well, what can I do next if I want to take this to be like a multi eight-figure business? What does it take?

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Hi, I'm James Johnson, founder and CEO coach, and this is the Peer Effect Podcast, where your peers will tell you what's unlocking their 10 million plus business. My guest today is Clementine Schutenden, the founder and CEO of Cavi. They're an e-commerce business focused on premium guinea pig products. She's managed to bootstrap it across the UK, Europe, and the US. And today we're going to be talking about how starting small can help you grow big. So, Clem, welcome to Piraffect. Thank you. Now, before we start, I've got to ask, what is with the metal detector?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Um okay. So I have always been obsessed about, I guess, finding treasure. And the metal detector was I guess it was my pentamin gift at the time I lived on the El of White, really close to a beach, and when lockdown happened, I figured this is the best time to get a metal detector. And I did find some really cool things. And um and I I kind of drew a parallel between metal detection and building a business because you are just finding you're finding gold, you know, you're looking for gold, you're finding it sometimes. Some often you don't find it at all, but it's this, you know, um concept that if you try hard enough, something will happen, something good will happen, you'll find something.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

It's amazing. I think so it's very much into like your background. So you start with lots of a PhD in genetics, and now we're guinea pigs. Maybe we'll talk us through sort of that that transition as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, I know it can sound surprising, but there is a conducting, you know, a theme and and uh uh uh the dots connect somewhere. So I was born an animal lover, I was always obsessed by animals and pets, and I constantly bugging my parents for a dog, and they were not quite keen on a dog, but I did get all the other pets, like cats, hamsters, and all the other guys basically, which I think gave me that kind of sensitivity to exotic pets. Um and I I was always fascinated by biology in the natural world, so I decided to study biology purely out of passion. And I loved learning and I loved school and and I wanted to do PhD just because I never wanted to leave school. So I did as much studying as I could really. Um but um I finished my PhD and I realized academia wasn't really for me. I was more of a tangible kind of um real life person. I wanted to talk to people, I wanted to solve problems, I wanted things to go fast, I wanted variety and diversity in my life. And I switched gears and I became a business consultant. So I joined McKinsey in 2014. And I absolutely fell in love with you know the world of business, in fact. Um, understanding what makes a business relevant, what makes a business resilient, what makes the business survive in a world that is constantly changing. How can a business stay, you know, in touch with its customers and and provide constantly evolve their offering to, you know, to preserve brand equity, brand value. I was I was completely in my world. And um towards the end of my McKinsey career, I I I stumbled across a gap, an enormous gap, which was the guinea pig market, or rather the small pet market. I had guinea pigs myself. I've obviously still wanted a dog, but at that stage I was still craving, you know, a dog. Yeah. But with the McKinsey lifestyle traveling every week, it just wasn't possible. Um, and I literally remind my, you know, like I can remember Googling was the best thing. If I can get a dog, what is the the best the best proxy to a dog? And Google came up with guinea pigs. And I was like, okay, interesting, you know, and they are like mini dogs. They're very expressive. Yeah, they're very expressive, very communicative, they can be very cuddly, they will interact with you during daytime. And uh and they are a lot less maintenance than dogs. So I was like, cool, let's give it a shot. And I realized there was no cages that was big enough for guinea pigs to actually have a proper run, have a proper kind of move, you know, naturally. And and I was like, that is so cruel, that is so sad. Um and there was no way on earth my pets would have been given that life. Yeah. So I DIY'd myself, my first cage, and I figured I could buy a few materials, so I invested 10,000 pounds of my own savings. Yeah. Um, and I bought a few things in China. Um and I went on Facebook at the time, it wasn't Meta, it was Facebook. I posted um in in a guinea pig in a guinea pig owner forum. I I posted about my cages, and I was like, I have these school cages, they're quite big, they're they're great. Does anyone want one of those? And I remember a guy inserted and the money was transferred to my personal bank account, and I was absolutely amazed. And I was like, Okay, I think I'm onto something here. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

The only way the story would be better is actually if you'd found the parts on a beach with your metal detector.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

If you could run I just and I feel like you just I did literally stumble across this opportunity, and I wasn't looking for a big opportunity. And I think for a long time I was like, this is just a sight thing, obviously. It's only just guinea pickages. I for a long time I didn't I didn't have the ambition or I didn't give myself the means to make it a big thing. And um nowadays I am definitely trying to make it a big thing. Um but it took me a bit of time to even realize how big the market was.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Hmm. I mean this this is kind of the niche of a niche, isn't it? So it's not even just small pets, it's guinea pigs. You started with cages and and so where did it grow from cages outwards or how far has it grown from cages?

SPEAKER_02 7:49

We've developed everything now you would need for housing. So the cage, the liners, the bedding, the beds, the accessories, uh all kind of the uh hard goods that you need to keep a guinea pig or two guinea pigs. Um we have expanded internationally. So we were born in Europe, we then conquered the UK, then conquered USA. Um and we keep trying new things. We're constantly developing, we're looking after um food and hay, which are big consumable. We have developed cleaning products that are specific to our customer needs. Um there's a lot we could do still.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Wow. And so how how do you feel then staying small, because you have stayed very focused on guinea pegs? How do you feel that gives you an operational advantage?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

In terms of having that focus? Um I I think the best way to the best way to to express it is I am 100% relevant to a small community. If I was a general pet brand, I would be one person relevant to millions of people, you know? And I love that I am I can stand behind my products and say this is a great product. It's going to literally change your pet's life. And you know, this has been a big part of ten years of my life. And being able to know that you have such value, you have created such value, to me that's important.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

There must have been temptation at some point to go, okay, well, we are we've hit this growth point in guinea pigs. Do we go wider? Because you you have gone international. What what was that decision point turns like, let's go international rather than going wider?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Yeah. Um I think it was easier because we didn't have to develop new products. We it was we knew there was a market pool because we had customers from the US almost immediately. We knew there was a market fit. So our products were selling really, really well in the UK and in Europe. Um we had we had tested the financials and the operational side of things, this side of the Atlantic. So we knew quite confidently that we could go after the US with the same model. Um I think nowadays I have the resources to go into developing new range, exploring new species, um and so on. But I do really love the fact that we are the guinea pig brand because there is no better way to be trusted as a brand than to be very uh very near and a specialist. And you mentioned size and you said m small. My ambitions were never very big for a long time. So to me we were never small. We were big enough for what I was trying to do. In fact, we were we we grew so quickly that even I was like, oh okay, in fact, you know, it's not small.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

So did you ever look at sort of when you're starting, what is the sort of the full market potential of it, or was it very much sort of something that kind of just grew organically from that sort of first pain point?

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I think I am I often reflect about my niche and I think I am creating a market, um, if I can say, because before me no one was retailing premium products for guinea pigs, you know, or small pets even. So if you are a guinea pig owner or small pet owner, there there is absolutely no there is very little option for you than buying something that is very cheap on Amazon or Timu or a big pet store. So I am my market is what I make of it in a sense. Uh if I'm able to develop and market a a product that I sell for 800 pounds, that is, you know, it is it is on me basically to to make this happen. Innovation in my space has been almost zero for a very, very, very long time. Um so that gives me, you know, a really a really big um sandbox to play with.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Because interestingly when you when you're talking about it, when you said like, oh, they're they are guinea pigs like dogs. I don't know anything about guinea pigs, really. But so one thing I do know a bit about is mini daxons, having a mini Daxon. And people go, I can see up and go, oh well the dog market is a dog market. And I go actually probably the mini Daxon is a very clear, distinct part of dog market. They probably need different products, they they're probably treated differently by their owners, by the nature of their backs, they are more vulnerable. Like so actually there's probably quite a big niche just looking at the mini Daxon market.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yeah, and I think I w I feel like 20 years ago, guinea pigs didn't didn't benefit from the same level of care and love from their owners. But nowadays they are at on equal on an equal level field, you know, with dogs and cats. If someone has guinea pigs or rabbits, they will care for them as much as they care for a dog or a cat. So the market is here and they want, you know, they want great products, they want products they are proud and happy and they relate to, they want trends, they want quality, they want premium shape and lifestyle. And that's what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

So for sort of other fans listening, it's kind of this taking the niche, like you've very much stuck to your niche in terms of you built a reputation better to be really relevant to like 100% relevant than 1% relevant. What are some takeaways that having been in this niche for sort of 10 years that you think other people would find useful?

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Um I feel like focus is underrated, you know. Um so many times people came to me and asked why am I not trying something else, you know, retailing for rabbits or rats or hamsters. And I I kept saying to them, I am nowhere near having tapped my market. I know it, you know, I I can I can tell it from my numbers. And it would be it would be a terrible move from a business point of view to to spread myself in. Bear in mind I was bootstrapped. So there was not a lot going on in terms of of you know money or talent. We were very lean for a long, long time. So had I made that move, I think it would have been a vanity move and it would have probably killed the business or weakened it very, very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Yeah, so actually accused me of saying that. Do you feel that there's often marketing go, okay, well I I can never get more than X percent of my market? But it sounds like what you're saying is A, that market number can change quite dramatically because you can create new products which dramatically change the potential. But I'm also wondering if do you think your growth rate potentially can increase as your as your market sort of dominance increases because you get better known. So actually rather than like slower growth, you might get faster growth?

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Absolutely. So to give you an example, very quickly we realized, yes, I'm talking to a small group of people, but I can ex I can excite this this small group of people about new products every six weeks or so, or every month, or every three weeks even. And if I'm able to come up with something that is really exciting on a regular basis, they will buy. They will, you know, our retention game is extremely strong because we had no choice. You know, we were talking to such a small group, and there are things like this I had to do very quickly, develop a strong retention um ability. We have an amazing product development ability for for a small small business, we developed um hundreds of products every year and launched them seamlessly on a monthly basis. We are global, we have global fulfillment uh abilities. Um and those are things that take years to acquire. And and and and the the beauty of this is that if one day I decide to leave my niche and conquer a bigger market, I have all those assets already. So I I think I've walked a really difficult path, but it's going to pay off.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

So finally it's that that the muscles you've honed as a business you can use it in other places, but you've also got quite a strong moat in terms of it'd be very hard to come into your market given audience loyalty, yeah, sort of expertise, ability to respond.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah. Yeah, I think you know what there's a reason why we're the only one. It's it's very difficult, it's it's niche, it's probably too small for most business. But the beauty of it is I never thought it was too small. Maybe naively, I thought it was going to be big enough. It was big enough for what I wanted to do. And when it wasn't big enough for what I wanted to do, I I I I fought really hard about how to make it bigger, you know. I think the beauty of having a business is that you can you can take it many places, you can transform it, you can make it evolve, you can you can try different things, right? And um and that's where and that's what's exciting me nowadays, is like, okay, well what can I do next if I want to take this to be like a a multi eight-figure business, what does it take?

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah. Because obviously the business already is a million pounds or multi-million pound business. But what feels quite interesting here is this sort of the potential to be like eight-figure and and bigger, but also just how you we're talking before about how as you're figuring out what excites you, that unlocks new sort of paradigms for the business.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yes, and what I have learned with KV, with this niche, I feel like I can apply it elsewhere, whether or within Kavi or you know, another brand. So to me it was the best business school I've ever been. Um so yeah, I think I'm quite excited and confident about the future.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

Even better than McKinsey.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

In a different way. Yes. It's been very hands-on. I define myself as an operator nowadays.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Yeah, yeah. Um McKinsey beaten up by guinea pigs. I love it. That's not going on the recruiting marketing into universities.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Well, they do see I think 85% of like McKinsey alumni succeed at building a business. Um, which tells you, you know, just something about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yeah. Is that right? Is it that high?

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

It's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

What what do you think? I'll come back on a bit. What what do you why do you think that is? Why so high?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Um we've seen it. You know, we have when you leave McKinsey, you have seen a lot of businesses, and I think you have seen a lot of when you're a consultant, you're called in because something is going wrong. So I think you have a good sense of what not to do, in fact. Um and you are often very excited about business, as I was saying. I I you know, it is something that is um gets under your skin, basically. And um and having the ability to convince, you know, like I I can be I I can be very bullish. Like I can be very excited about like my prospects as an entrepreneur. And you need to convince people to like join in and do this with you. I always say I'm not on my own, like I I sit here alone in the studio, but that is such um it's it's not the truth, you know. Like I have 20 people helping me doing this. Yeah. And each of them I had to convince that this was a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

It's quite like I think maybe I discounted the power of that convincing, because I I think that I've seen the Dane sometimes with stretching side, like it's quite strategic, but not necessarily that practical. And therefore, sort of once you get into the doing, that sort of can sort of un unpin some of the the the sort of the plans that look quite great on paper. But actually I think that being able to convince people, whether it's from a funding perspective or a drawing, like that that looking good on paper, but it's actually really important for convincing people to to come with you on the journey.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah, I think there is this. Um I think there's also creativity. Like I had to be extremely creative at times to navigate difficult situations. I still have. Um, and at McKinsey, creativity is one of the core, you know, skills they recruit for. Uh stress resistance is another one. I've been in my kinsey's extremely high stress environment. And you have to not only resist it, but even actually like it a little. Um and I building my own business was the most stressful, stressful thing I have ever done. Um But I can I can see myself I can see myself reacting under stress, and I can see how it unlocks, you know, like something in me. I'm like, okay, this is like really, really, really risky, and I'm gonna need to find a solution, you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Well, it's almost unlocks like a higher level of performance, like a bit more stress unlocks better performance or better better.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

100%. I feel like I and I'm not a doctor or anything, but I feel like physiologically I can feel myself stressed, and I will literally be stressed for a couple of hours. And then my wood my brain goes, okay, now we need a solution, you know. Like we've allowed you a bit of time to be stressed about it. But the need for a solution doesn't go away. So and I I know, you know, like I I never walked away from my business, and I say that's because even if I had walked away from my business, I am certain I would find myself fighting the same situation down the line. So I might as well solve today's problem in opposition to like walk away and come across the next problem in ten years.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

I think it can be tempting, can't it? Like that sort of that that knowing when to stick and when to twist for entrepreneurs is really hard. Like when do you stay with the same product and just fight your way through the problem? Or when is the problem a stage where actually this is not the right product or in business and move on to the next one?

SPEAKER_02 22:19

That is very true. That is very true. And I think for me it's been one of my blind spots. Um because we have been we've been pioneering, you know, in our niche. We've been the f we were the first one, literally. But that was eight years ago. And then at some point I walked into a room and my team was brainstorming the next campaign and the next ads. And I saw their messaging and I was like, hold on guys, this was okay eight years ago. But the world has changed so much. We have Timu, Amazon, uh a new competitor every week. Um it's never been easier and quicker to open an e-commerce store nowadays and to source things in China. And so what do we stand for, right? And and no one could really answer that. And and it's really hard when you're a market leader to stay on top of your game because at some point you are going to, you know, take things for granted, basically. Take your market for granted.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

So how do you avoid how how do you keep that excitement? How do you keep that sort of what keeps you caviar?

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yeah. I think for me it was one very simple question. Um my resolution this year is to do the best with at Kavi. So I want us to develop the best products, have the best campaign, have the best website, have the best visuals, work with the best colleagues, find the best collaborators. And just because it is what I want for myself, really. And if I apply this filter to what we are doing today, I would say 60% of it is not the best, right? And that has it gave us so much momentum. The moment we're asking, is this the best? No. Okay, so what is the best? It hasn't looked so many things for us. But I feel like in the past I could not afford to ask that question. I was like, I need to pay the bills. You know, if I if I start wondering is this the right color, is this the right texture, is this the best, I feel like I I just I just needed to like come up with something, anything very quickly. Uh I didn't maybe have the confidence to think that I could afford to demand something better, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

And what gave you what gives you now this confidence that you that you can?

SPEAKER_02 24:46

It's just because it is what I want. I think at this stage of my life, um I have I feel like I've done what I wanted with Kavi for the last eight years. And when I look ahead, um I'm more excited about saying we have led innovation to the next level. We have invented things that you know the world had not seen. We have redefined how people care for small pets. We have created a market that didn't exist, you know, a innate figure market that didn't exist. Like I'm more excited about this than saying, you know, I have paid my bills and made a lot of money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Because it's it sounds like almost giving yourself permission to change the what success looks like is at the heart of this.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

So going on Yeah, 100%. 100%, yeah. I think it's like how can Kevin be the most exciting business? That is that is the North Star. And if you if you really make it the most exciting business, um you do not fear competition. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Yeah, you're less looking over your shoulder, more like they're never gonna catch me.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Well, because I'm not trying to like beat anyone, you know, like it's it's purely an internal compass of are we really excited about what we do. Not just me, but my team as well. Like my ambition is to be market leader in the UK and in the US for small pets, but I also want to be a top ten person workplace in the UK. Like, you know, attract the best people, give them the best working environment, a place that is inclusive, kind, collaborative, where everyone is doing their best work and learning. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

How does this north style of like being the best and being exciting? How does that allow the whole team to make decisions? Because that feels in some in some ways that's clear for you. But if everyone's defining exciting and best for them, how how do how does so how does that practically sort of play out within the team in terms of making decisions?

SPEAKER_02 26:49

I feel like I've seen um I've seen the team becoming more critical. Um so we are okay missing deadlines if something's not good enough. We are okay being, you know, working with maybe less less buffer because we we want to iterate on on something until it's the best, you know. Um I've seen my team achieve targets and see things to me like, yeah, but um we could have done better. And I'm like, wow, well we have achieved our targets, you know, so we should be really happy. So and I think if you give people the permission to um be critical with with themselves, you actually do not need to push them at all. Um so I can see my product developers coming back to me and saying, I've tried this and that, but I do feel like maybe there's a a third version that will, you know, be better. And I'm like, yeah, of course, yeah, I agree with you. You know, so I think people just need the permission to like know that we we want, we want them to experiment, we want them to fail. I love when I love it when we fail because I'm like, the next thing is gonna be really cool. Like everyone wants to like prove themselves at the end of the day and be proud of what you do.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

This sounds like then quite a big change in how you're operating as a leader and how the business is operating to go from to give people permission to do this, like you're saying, like I you can miss deadlines, you can you can reduce profitability, you like there's quite a few sort of knock-on effects from this change. Like if we're gonna move from a thing of traditional method of let's hit deadlines, let's hit target, let's hit like do what we say, to let's focus on exciting, you've got to be giving your team permission to do that differently and maybe operating differently as a leader. I'm just wondering how how how you've done that.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

I think it takes lots of courage. But I think I got to a point where I didn't want to be I didn't want to be that funder anymore, you know, who had to who had to kind of push an entire organization towards deadline, entire organizations towards it. I think that there comes a time where it becomes bigger than one person can even handle, right? So if you don't have the right culture, you are going to struggle. You know, I I cannot drive this anymore. In fact, more and more I feel like my role is is to be in the room. To have the person who has the vision and has the ambition and explain how I want us to get there. But the rest is really it has I have to to be less and less involved. I have to be less and less needed, um, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

I think what I'm hearing is like you're still very needed in terms of just what you're doing is different. So maybe you're in the room less. Or you're you're in the room, but like contrary less, but maybe just creating the room is what you're doing. Yes. So like you're creating the environment and the culture and permission and like you're creating a culture of safety to do some of these things because if if you don't do that, you can go, oh well, miss deadlines, fit profit, and then people do that, you know, profit's down. Let's you can quite easily create, you can say one thing and do another, which will create cognitive dissonance. So it feels like you're what you're doing is has shifted.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Yeah, I think it is really about creating a culture of safety and honesty as well. You know, if we don't hit targets, I can't risk you. I can't risk you it, right? So we are all collectively responsible for, you know, having a job in six months, basically. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

And w what have you found like so the theory is you can sort of let it go a bit, create the culture of safety, empower your people, worry less about sort of like things happening on time and on budget to get like a better outcome. How has that actually played out for you in terms of the results?

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Really well, in fact. Really, really well. I am um I'm I've seen changes that I didn't believe could be possible in such a short time. Um I think I tell my people, whatever you need, you can get it. As long as as long as we can afford it, as long as we hit target. You know, like my role is purely solely to um find the resources to make that happen. Set the bar, set the ambition, convince everyone that it is 100% achievable. And in fact, if I see we can reach 50 million, I'll say, you know what, maybe it's AT. Like I am like, I I know my market, I I I truly hundred percent believe in this. Um they see me they see me working really hard as well. Like I, you know, like I'm I'm all in. Um I do as much as I can always.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

What what does all in look like in this context? Because you're saying that you're trying to be like not you're trying to be in the room but not dominate it as much.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yeah, I think uh a nervous shift as well, which has helped me a lot, is um I'm not focusing on I'm not focusing on fixing what's going on today or even next week. I'm six months ahead. You know, I'm working on projects that are going to impact us six, nine months ahead. And I'm always like I'm always like, okay, I I should have at least two to three moves that make me very confident about the business that will develop in six to nine months. And always I'm constantly like, what's the next thing? What's the next what's next in the pipeline, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Hmm. It's really nice. I I think a lot of founders get stuck in this kind of like this hero bit of like swooping in to save the day and like in the now, and actually if you're doing your jobs and like the shift into the future of going, almost your team almost aren't aware of all the work you're doing because either you're removing problems they haven't even hit yet, yeah, or they're seeing the benefits. And that takes a lot of confidence again to go, I'm valuable, I'm doing valuable stuff, I don't need to be seen to be busy or in the moment because actually I'm I'm I'm confident of creating value and I'm more valued this way.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Yeah, and I think my team values this because they don't like I'm not the bottleneck, I'm not signing off on any word or image or video. I I I look at it, I I I give my opinion, I support them, I you know, I I keep an eye on it, but I'm not the bottleneck, and I think they feel hopefully they feel like they have um earned my trust and my confidence and they are autonomous and independent and they can they can run the show and they earn the credit for today's victory. But then equally when we regroup, I can tell them something really incredible is on the horizon that I've been working on. And so we're equally we're in that very sweet spot of celebrating the present and getting excited about the future. But I think having been able to do that, I think that it's been such a gift for the organization because yes, I was stuck in are we going to make next week's targets for so so long. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

And it sounds like it is quite a big shift, and you've just almost got to back yourself that that's gonna happen. I imagine the first month or two months of making that change were a little bit uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Um I think if you have the right people, this will naturally happen. You know, my team told me like you're the CEO, you should be thinking about what's happening in six to twelve months, and I was like, yeah, 100%. So let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Has it changed the way you hire people then? Because it sounds like you've been you had your business for a long time, a lot of your team you'll have known for a long time. So you you're you're making a change from position of quite a lot of knowledge. But you're probably also adding people to the team with this kind of new approach in mind. Yeah. So ha has that changed what you look for in people or how you go about hiring people?

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Um I try to I try to hire the best, to be honest. I um I I think there is the culture shift and the expertise. Um I am trying to build a tech business. E-commerce is is a tech business, you know. I'm trying to build a plane. Um I need engineers, I need mechanics, I need people who will be able to do things that I will never be able to do in my life. Um so a big, big part of my role is is to find this talent. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Having having gone through all this, what is like one thing that you think other founders could do today after listening to this this episode?

SPEAKER_02 36:02

I would like them to reflect on what what is a gift you could give to your business? And by gift I mean what kind of resource can you give to your business? And th there are the obvious ones like um uh funding, financing, money, talents, support. But I think focus is a big one as well. So what does your business need that you can give it? Yeah. And if you don't have it, how can you find it? That is truly the the core question to me.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

And for you that was focus?

SPEAKER_02 36:40

It was focus, but not just focus. It was resources as a whole. Because if my focus is to find resources, whether it's talents or or capital, then what we can achieve is is limitless.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

And what would you say your focus would have been before that then? So it's kind of like the business you can give a focus on is on getting these resources, what would have been pulling your focus before?

SPEAKER_02 37:04

I think I was stuck in the weeds, you know, like um I think we're all we all have very busy lives. And I would I would open my calendar and be like, oh I have to, I guess, insert my emails and do my one-on-ones and and now I'm like a bit more rebellious with my to-do list. I'm like, is there anything in that to-do list that is helping the business today, right now, you know, in five days, in five months? And if the answer is no, I go off piste, and I'm like, no, instead let me reach out to this, you know, um to this bank or to this person on LinkedIn, or let me listen to this funder's interview who's gonna help me think about how to grow the business. Like I'm really like hyper focusing on what does the business need and how can I unlock it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

So I love that. Okay, really if it was just giving yourself permission to be free, to just going, I'm con I now know what I think I now know what's gonna create value for the business. I don't want to spend my time on that.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

And if I'm not doing it, then I need to figure out where I can do it.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Yeah, because you know, at the end of the day, I feel like it's really easy to to blame external factors or even internal factors for your business not growing. And and my business wasn't growing for the best part of two years. And it was a case of yes, we had the tariffs, yes, we had the pandemic, yes, we had this, this and that, right? But if I'm truly honest, I think I wasn't maybe I didn't understand some fundamentals about what a business needs to grow. And it's it's it's you need to fuel the machine, right? You need to give them something to work with, whether it's new products, um a marketing budget, a really cracking leadership team, like are you actually giving your business something to you know, a chance to grow? Or are you just hoping it will happen with a bit of a bit of this and a bit of that and and and hoping, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:14

I love that. So the whole thing I've put fast, like taking back control, it's kind of like Yeah, taking back control.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

And I think you need to be relentless about um about getting to to where you're trying to get to. Like I I was ambitious, I was always ambitious, but I think I wasn't um I was ambitious metaphorically, like um I don't think I was ambitious in my action. I don't think my actions reflect in my ambition. Because you can't grow an eight-figure business without um without having an amazing product pipeline, without an amazing leadership team, without having access to capital if you need it. So I think there was some wishful thinking somewhere in the middle.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Amazing. I love that. Ambitious actions. Well, Clem, thank you so much for sharing with that today. It has been enlightening.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Thank you, Gigi.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Such a good episode today with Clem. As ever, if you liked it, press subscribe on whatever platform you're listening or watching on, and come back either next Monday for a Peer Effect postback episode with Freddie or a guest episode on Wednesday. Send us any questions at hello at peerffect.com. And in the meantime, thanks for listening and happy scaling.