How Do You Stabilise Your Team When Nothing Is Certain? | Peer Effect Post Bag

Ben asked how you hold a team together when you can't give them certainty. James and Freddie get into why that framing is already part of the problem - and what good leadership actually looks like when everything is shifting.

If you've been avoiding the harder conversations with your team because you don't have all the answers yet, this is the episode to listen to before your next all-hands.

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Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Pure Effect Post Bag. I'm James Johnson, joined by Freddie Burley. We ask for your questions, and Freddie and I are going to tackle them together. These aren't theoretical case studies. It's the stuff keeping you up at 2 a.m. Let's get answering. Welcome to the Pure Effect Post Bag. This is where we answer your questions. I'm James Johnson. I'm Freddie Burley. So, Freddie, what have you been up to this week?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

What have I been up to this week? Well, I became an auntie. Congratulations. I know. Actually, so exciting. Um, and really, really surreal. We don't I I never really had many babies in the family growing up. And so meeting my nephew was just honestly almost like it's just the most surreal experience in the world. Seeing my brother become a dad and seeing my brother's face in this tiny, tiny human when he like just arrived, and being able to hold him. And it's just honestly, it's been magic. It's been absolute magic. So I feel um, it's really rare in life that you have like a moment that makes you genuinely change so much of how you see the world. And I feel like meeting Monty, my brother's baby, was one of those moments where I was like, gosh, this just put so much into perspective around what's important, and and just watching a whole family come together around the baby as well. And it's kind of a new generation because Lucas is the first baby, and it it suddenly makes me feel like a grown-up adult. I know I'm 33, so I am, I am in theory an adult. But there's something about being someone's auntie, and I'm gonna be the role that it just it's kind of like wow, very cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

I I really think they do bring families together. Like it's just it gives families a reason for being. It's like the next generation just pulls everyone. Sonic gives you a topic that you can talk about endlessly.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Totally, totally. And that they need you, right? You you want to be involved and around in their lives. And I think when everyone's adults has their own lives, it can be quite easy to there's there's not there's not obviously like birthdays and Christmases and things and natural gathering points, but suddenly when there's a tiny human around, like they need help all the time. So there's always an excuse to hang out, um, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Have you got a list of things you want to to do to do with him or to get him?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Honestly, I'm very excited about the clothes, to be frank. I love outfits, especially small, small outfits. And there's a part of me that really wants to coordinate my outfits with his, which I think will be a bit too much for my poor brother's wife. So mainly excited about the outfits, also excited about honestly, just knowing his personality. I'm like, who are you, you small human? Like, what's going on in there? And he has very wise eyes. So yeah. Um, lots of fun to be had.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

At some future stage, I've got to see a coordination outfit.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Oh, for sure. I will I will bring it in. I I like I've already got a mood board going. So yeah. Um, so fun. So, in other news, a question from Ben this week. How do you stabilize teams when nothing is certain?

SPEAKER_02 2:58

I mean, that feels pretty much pretty much where we are in the world at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

But it's weird, I I think it feels like where we are, but it also feels like where we've been. We've actually been through a lot of change. I mean, I like we had COVID not too long ago, or the you're bringing it back.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Exactly. Patient zero over here.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

But I remember like times in my career, like where you go somewhere and just I went to the Philippines and it was quite an unstable time. And like you read the newspaper, oh my god, everything's just gonna fall apart. Like there were two, two military lockdowns while I was there in the first six months. You're like, Wow. But actually, life goes on. I think I think we we see this time and again, life just does go on. But I think it makes it hard as a leader when you don't have that certainty. I think you never truly have certainty, but you often feel like you have a sense of like what the economic environment's gonna be like, where the direction of travel is. But certain things do come along, like AI, like COVID, which just kind of almost like upset the whole board and go, I genuinely have no idea what what everything's gonna look like in a year's time. And I think that can be quite hard because I think our teams like to have certainty or like the illusion of control. I think as human beings, like, oh, the the bureaucrats that control everything. Like it's it's comforting to think that someone has a grand plan somewhere. Although my experience of life is that people rarely do. 100%. But I think in this case, the one thing that you can do, and I would say the same same thing applied during COVID, is just give certainty around, like increase your consistency of communication or increase the frequency for communication and be clear, like what you will do in response to what. So you can't, I don't think you can give sort of clarity on, I will be doing this, we will be doing this, because you can't reason without certainty. I think you can be explicit in that. Like, I cannot give you certainty on these things because that is not what the environment is allowing us to do at the moment. But what I can tell you is we will stick to our principles. We will do like if this happens, we will do this as much as possible, we will protect like jobs. So I I think you can come back to principles and be explicit that you're that you're not, but just keep keep that message of of communication. Because I think particularly then when times are changing a lot, people assume they haven't heard something, something has changed. So even if nothing has changed in your thinking, it's still helpful just to say, nothing's changed in my thinking. Yes. Nothing has changed in my thinking.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Because that's quite reassuring as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

It's so true. And people just want someone to tell them that everything's gonna be okay. And and also people know that in change, being clear about what we do and don't know. And the don't know's are often like the outputs. Like we don't know what the outcome's gonna be in the outputs. The things that we do know is if we behave in this certain way or if we focus on these things, it's gonna increase our likelihood of being successful in this really challenging time. And so, like, how do you anchor people back into how do we show up to this challenge in the best possible way? How do we like rely and lean on each other? What kind of mode of operating happens in like crisis scenarios that actually increases the likelihood of outcome? Exactly as you said, like rhythm of communication, increasing the frequency of that so that people feel tapped in and connected to what they can't yet see yet, but they want to feel. And if they can't see safety yet or they can't see the outcome that they're looking for, but they feel the sense of connection and commitment from the team, it it um people can feel really in sync.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

And I think people could also, I think the first giving is to try and nudge people out of denial. Because I think some people do get stuck, and I saw this during COVID. Some people get stuck and think of I don't want things to change. And it's like, well, I understand that. Like, I don't want it either. Yeah, but they've changed. Like these responses we're making as an organization are not happening out of nowhere. They are in response to something that is that is that is changing. Like, you might want to still work in the office, you can't work in the office. Like you may still want to receive full pay, but our company is receiving like 20% of its revenue that it was a month ago. Like, yes, you don't want to change, but like I cannot allow you to live in this denial bubble because it will impact other things. So I think it's more powerful as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

That's so true. And I what's that quote of like the only thing that's certain in life is change, and also all growth happens in change. And often when people are attached to a lack of change in any circumstance, whether it was like a crisis or we weren't, even if we weren't going through this AI revolution, it all growth exists in change. And so, as human beings, if we want to evolve and if we want to keep adapting, we we have to change. And I think also it's almost like people get, if you think about like a lobster analogy, sometimes people get overly attached to their shell and they forget that actually they they'd outgrown it already and they need to let go of it in order for their new shell to form that they can grow into. And it again in change, leaders being connected to the purpose of change and how this is going to benefit everyone. And I think that's also really important to speak to.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Yeah, I do think sometimes we can forget how painful change can be because often we're the ones that are instigating it. And actually having change done to you is a lot less comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, because it feels like everything's out of your control. And so people feel, yeah, this is so true.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

And I think just acknowledging that as well, that people aren't necessarily fighting back against something out of maliciousness or thing. They just genuinely it it may have personal impacts. For example, if someone's let's go back to COVID example, if suddenly your income drops by 20%. For a lot of people, they don't have 20% room in their earnings to cover their outgoings. Yes. So there is a real fear attached to that change, and practically it might not work for them. So it is almost kind of rational to try and push back against that change and see, okay, if I push back against enough, maybe you or the company will absorb it on my behalf because I don't think I can. And that's not necessarily a bad strategy, yeah, given your real life realities. Yes. It just makes it very hard as a leader because then you're sort of going, Well, I can't. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if I do for you, then I'm gonna have to do it for everyone else, or I will do it for you and I won't do it for everyone else. Yeah. And that actually is gonna cause me a much bigger problem. So I think then as a leader, you need to be quite strong and go, I feel your pain, I understand your pain, but I need to be fair to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah. And the sustainability of the business is if I compromise this for you now in the short term, then the long term the business might not work out at all, and then we'll all be out of a job. And so, like that balance between fulfilling what people desire and need and also holding your responsibilities for the long term as well in the same breath. And it's it's tough. It's really, really tough. But again, if you have a relationship with your team that is transparent and is based on trust, then this is when I think crises is when reality comes to the surface often. And if there were big cracks or a lack of trust in the team before the crisis, you'll be sure that there'll be absolute chaos when a crisis ensues because people, you don't have those foundations, you don't have that like bed or that rock of trusting your leader to do the right thing for the team and the company, not just the company at the cost of the team. And so I I also think in this time or in change, the the characteristics or like the good behaviours get really rewarded.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Yeah. And I yeah, and I also think if you've if you've molecoddled your team and not shared any bad news ever before you hide all the bad news, that really comes home to Rush to say we're in a bad time because they're just not used to receiving anything other than positivity. Yeah. Which I think is dangerous. Whereas you go, if you're being transparent and go, this is working, this is not working. In many cases, you say, in change times comes growth. But if they can respond to it calmly because they've received bad news from you before, actually they're much quicker to shift into solution mode and go, okay, where is the growth here? Where is the change? Where is the opportunity? Like can be quite energizing once a team all together make that step and go, okay, let's acknowledge where we are. You've got a good team, there's a lot of good ideas, a lot of good energy. And actually it can be super like that kind of high-intensity, deadline-based, we were all in this together. Yes. Can be really rewarding and really bring a team together.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah, a hundred percent. That's such a good point. Because I think sometimes, in especially in startup life, people want to avoid challenge or they want to avoid what's not working and just focus on what is working. And there can be this anxiety around it, just focus on the positives, but also that prevents people from feeling there's like a maturity to being aware of reality and aware of, and I think it also gets the team into problem-solving mode as opposed to sort of fantasy mode. So, yeah, I think that's a great point. Yeah, that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

I think startups as a whole generally are in a in a irony six traumas wrapping crisis anyway. Like you go through fundraising rounds to a degree you're on the clock for the moment you close your round. Like, I think it's good for people in these businesses to all understand that reality and not feel like we're nine nine months before we need to fundraise again. Yeah. That's not that's not necessarily a crisis. That is a built-in feature of being a startup. And if people are in there and don't understand that reality and you feel like you can't have that conversation with a team, I would question like sort of what conversations you do feel comfortable having with your with your team.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, a hundred percent. Okay, so in summary, stabilizing teams when nothing is certain. What am I taking away? I feel like I'm taking a lot from this. A lot around how leaders anchor themselves and around how um how they stay in reality themselves, how they communicate that and more frequently than in other periods or periods of crises. Um, how you rely on each other and in a crisis as well, how you stabilize is like this is the reality. How do we all work together to solve these challenges? What are you taking away? What are the things that you're left with?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

I just read out your point right now. This is like a continuation of previous good behaviors. Like part of your role as a leader is to prepare your team for times when things are not as good. And therefore, if you have done that, then in these times it's actually a lot easier. So I think that's a lesson to take forward, even post this AI change, is just what is the culture that you want? And a sort of a more mature, problem-solving, able-to-hear bad news culture pays dividends in bad times, but probably also pays dividends in good times because you can have harder conversations. So I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Yeah, amazing. Cool.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Well, that's it for today, then, and we will see you guys next week for another episode. In the meantime, happy scaling.