The Ultimate Dish
The Ultimate Dish
Accidentally on Purpose: Chef-in-Residence Kristen Kish on Life, Mentorship & Meaning
In today’s episode, we chat with Kristen Kish, Escoffier Chef-in-Residence, award-winning chef, and host of Bravo’s Top Chef.
A Korean adoptee raised in Michigan, Kristen discovered her passion for cooking at a young age. After working in various Boston kitchens, she competed on Season 10 of Top Chef, ultimately winning the coveted title. Since then, she’s published a cookbook, starred in hit shows like Fast Foodies on TruTV and Iron Chef on Netflix, and in 2023, took over as the host of Top Chef for its 21st season—earning Primetime Emmy nominations for both herself and the show. Kristen is also the chef/partner of Arlo Grey in Austin, TX, the creator of KISH Aperitif, and the host of Restaurants at the End of the World on National Geographic/Disney+.
Join us as Kristen discusses her role at Escoffier, how she balances ambition with authenticity, and gives us a peek into her new memoir, Accidentally on Purpose.
TRANSCRIPT
Kirk Bachmann: Hi everyone. I’m Kirk Bachmann, and welcome back to The Ultimate Dish. Today, I’m very excited to have a VERY special returning guest, Kristen Kish, who just happens to be Escoffier’s very own Chef in Residence and the host of Bravo’s Emmy Award-winning “Top Chef.”
As Chef in Residence, Kristen plays a key role in inspiring our students through exclusive lecture classes, special content, and interactive engagement opportunities.
Beyond Escoffier, she’s the chef and partner of Arlo Grey in Austin, Texas, the host and producer of “Restaurants at the End of the World” on National Geographic – Disney Plus, and the creator of Kish Aperitif.
A Korean-adoptee raised in Michigan, Kristen found her passion for cooking at a young age. After working at various Boston kitchens, she competed in Season Ten of “Top Chef,” ultimately winning the coveted title.
Since then, she’s published a cookbook, starred in many hit shows like “Fast Foodies” on trueTV and “Iron Chef” on Netflix, and 2023 [she] took over as the host of “Top Chef” for its twenty-first season. Both she and the show went on to earn prime-time Emmy nominations for Outstanding Host and Best Reality Competition Series.
Kristen’s been featured on “Time 100’s” Next list, “Adweek’s” Creative 100, and “Marie Claire’s” Power List.
Now she’s adding another book to her resume, her first memoir, “Accidentally On Purpose,” which hits our shelves on April 22 of this year.
Join us as we chat with Kristen about her role as Chef in Residence, a sneak peak into her exciting virtual class she’s leading at Escoffier, and a behind-the-scenes look at her highly anticipated memoir.
I’m out of breath, but hello. Hello, hello, hello. How are you?
Kristen Kish: I’m great. That’s a lot. That’s a lot.
Adapting and Relinquishing Control
Kirk Bachmann: That is a lot! That’s you! It’s all you. It’s amazing! It’s amazing. It’s amazing.
I saw you last week. It was amazing to have you on campus for our Young Escoffier Competition, which was made that much better because of you, and I mean that sincerely. For you to hop on a plane, fly in from New York for just a few hours, turn around and go back home, I’m so grateful. You’re so grateful.
How do you know sometimes where you are? Honestly.
Kristen Kish: Well, I don’t. I think my life 90-percent of the time runs off of my calendar. I look at it the night before, look at what’s happening the next day. I like to think I’m a regularly organized person. Even without the calendar, I’m sure I could figure out where I am and where I need to go. It’s the chef part of me. No matter how much my life goes off into different avenues and different categories, my brain is still organized the same way it is in a kitchen. I think that’s exactly how. I keep things moving.
Kirk Bachmann: I love that. Able to adapt. The word pivot is probably used too much, but it’s really true in the kitchen. You’ve got to adapt.
Kristen Kish: You have to adapt, and you also have to relinquish control a little bit, which I have to do to my calendar and my schedule.
Kirk Bachmann: Ooh, relinquish control. I like that. I would struggle with that.
Kristen Kish: But once you do and you realize the things that you give that control to someone else, and realize how much greater and how much other space you have within your own self? Oh. I wouldn’t take it back. Happy to pass it along.
Kirk Bachmann: My kids, the big term these days is “it’s satisfying,” so is it satisfying to relinquish some control?
Kristen Kish: It depends on what? What category.
Kirk Bachmann: I’m glad you said that.
Kristen Kish: Some of them don’t feel satisfying. Some of them feel more terrifying, but I will say, for the majority of stuff, I have really great people around me. Being able to give up control to people that could probably and are doing it better than I do, then I’m happy to do so.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s so well said. So well said.
I said this the last time you were on the show, and I would be remiss if I didn’t add it – and I hope I don’t get in trouble for this because I’m supposed to stick to the script – but on behalf of everyone here at Escoffier, and me personally, I just want to congratulate you on “Top Chef.” Last season was amazing. This season is equally incredible. I’m not going to give anything away to anybody, but I’ve been watching. Congratulations.
You make it look so easy. We all know that it’s not. I don’t know how much you can say or can’t say, but I know it’s hard work. I know it’s hard work.
Kristen Kish: I think the chefs have the hardest job-
Kirk Bachmann: Sure!
Kristen Kish: Because they’re the hardest workers in the world, but they don’t know what the next challenge is. They don’t know what’s ahead of them. At least for me, I can’t say it’s hard. I think it’s personally challenging in a lot of ways, but the job and task at hand is not difficult. I get to eat great food from amazing chefs and get to have conversations around the food, and hear what other opinions and insights others have. I get to learn along the way and to sit at tables with my peers and those that I’ve looked up to for a very long time to hear what they have to say and how their brain[s] work. It’s not hard; it’s personally challenging in just the sense of putting myself out there and hosting. That wasn’t a natural behavior characteristic I would say I had before I had it.
Kirk Bachmann: You’re incredibly humble. You make it look easy and fun.
Kristen Kish: Fun is yes.
Takeaways from Young Escoffier Competition
Kirk Bachmann: Which is really, really, really good.
Can you take a moment and just share a few takeaways? After chatting with some of the young culinarians last week during our Young Escoffier Competition, maybe some who are considering the industry, but they really had fun at the event. And they had fun with you. Any takeaways that you witnessed?
Kristen Kish: What was really great and how I love how this culinary landscape is changing is that there are so many different avenues that culinary students can take. It doesn’t mean just going to culinary school to then go into a restaurant and then open up your own cafe, or restaurant, or business afterwards.
When I was talking to all of them, some of them were like, “I’m not sure yet. This is a really great way for me to exercise that muscle and see if it’s something I want to do.” Some are like, ‘You know what? I’m just doing this for great fun. What a cool elective this must be to have in high school?” And then you have some that are just itching to graduate and get into the programs at Escoffier and get to work so they can move on with their careers.
I think the takeaway is really that there is not just one path. I think that’s really important for me to hear a lot of times, and also to hear from the students. It inspires me. They’re dreaming big. They’re dreaming of anything that’s possible out there, and if it’s not out there, they’re going to make it happen for themselves, and they’re going to create that lane. Being able to hear so many different stories, it’s not just, “What are you looking to do after this?” It’s not the same answer every single time. It’s a relief and an inspiration, and I think just a really bright spot in knowing that our industry has taken so many different career avenues and has put that in play for a lot of different people.
Marking Milestone Moments
Kirk Bachmann: That’s so well said. It’s so nice to know that young people have choices today. One bit of trivia that I mentioned earlier before we got started. I got a photo from one of the coaches who was here eight years ago, who actually won last Friday. She’s on our board, and she has been doing this for forty years. She didn’t slip me any dollars or anything like that, but her team brought it home for her in final year. That was the gal that sent me the photo this morning. You can tell she’s still thinking about it. It really meant a lot to her.
About a year ago, you were on this very hot seat on The Ultimate Dish, February of last year. We rarely have guests come back. They’ve had enough of me. They never want to come [back]. “Yeah, thanks but no thanks.” We needed to have you back because we needed to talk about you as our Chef in Residence, which I think is just the coolest thing in the world.
For those who don’t know, Kristen was our guest speaker at our graduation ceremony here in Boulder back in November. In many ways, that moment up on stage – you were so elegant – it felt like the beginning of your journey with us as our chef in residence. I’d love for you to go back to that day through your lens. There were 2000 people there. It was a big crowd. What was special about that moment for you, looking out, knowing that you were in that position years and years ago? It was magical in many ways, watching you looking out at that crowd. Any thoughts about what was special to you?
Kristen Kish: I love being able to be part of moments that mark people’s new beginning. We’re going to have several through our [lives.] Hundreds. There are just endless possibilities about how many new starts and new beginnings you get to have in life. I think that’s a really beautiful thing.
There were people, when I was looking out there, the culinary graduates who either were career changes and – I don’t know how old – but then you have the ones that are coming right from high school and they’re going into a culinary career. To be part of something and to be invited into a room marking a moment that is a new beginning for everybody in that room, you kind of take a step back, and you really think about it. It gives you goosebumps and chills.
To be part of someone’s life for a very split second – I was up there for maybe three minutes – but those three minutes, I got to be part of their world and their experience. They could take away whatever they took away. It’s totally fine, but to be in the room and be invited to be part of their journey. I think that is the most special thing.
There’s that one picture where it’s from behind me and it’s looking out.
Kirk Bachmann: It’s what I’m always envisioning. Yes.
Kristen Kish: I got to be part of their day, and that’s a true honor and a privilege for me.
Kirk Bachmann: Chills, chills, chills.
And as you were just saying that, I was thinking about the families. Many of those graduates are the first to graduate from anything in their families. Their families are there and you’re helping validate their journey.
Your speech was incredibly moving. I think it was a little bit longer than three minutes.
Kristen Kish: I think it was.
Mentoring and the Meaning of Life
Kirk Bachmann: I actually pulled one of my favorite quotes from it. This is beautiful, and I quote, “Your metrics for success should reflect your philosophy, your sense of integrity. At the end of the day, kindness matters as much as the craft.” Wow. “Compassion is as important as cooking. Social responsibility and engagement in your community are as critical to your career as any social media statistics, awards, or star rating. Honing in on who you are and staying true to that person and lifting others up as you go through life will bring you more satisfaction, joy, and sustained fulfillment than any following or flash-in-the-pan food trend.”
Wow! “Kindness matters as much as the craft.” I just love that. And, Kristen, you’ve achieved much in your career. I wonder what it means to you, not just for Escoffier, but for many; what does it mean to step into the role of being that mentor?
Kristen Kish: I think it’s been a slow build for me to understand that I am that to many people that I’ve never met in my entire life. I’ve had great mentors in my life that I worked side-by-side with. We lived in the same city. We were going down the same road.
To now have a position where I don’t know everybody that looks to me for something. I have no idea. I may never meet them. That is something that does not weigh heavily on my shoulders, but it is definitely pressure to make sure that I do my part and my due diligence in saying the words that I say at commencement not just for the people in the room but for everywhere else. The responsibility that I have, that I’m gifted to have, to impact others, it’s a position that I never knew was going to be for me, but one that I definitely feel great purpose in.
The meaning of life is to encourage and to support and to celebrate those around you. I’m certainly living what I think a great meaning of life is. The more I do it for other people, the more it’s done for me. It’s just this interaction and exchange. It’s just not me doing for others. I get so much out of people by way of messages from strangers or coming to Escoffier to speak, or the Young Escoffier competition. Interacting with the future of our industry and the future of this world; that is a meaning of life. That is definitely a box within the things that are important in life.
You Are Not Your Job
Kirk Bachmann: Really beautiful. Really beautiful. You recently wrote a blog for Escoffier on defining personal wellness in the food industry. Why is this such an important topic, not just for you, but for all of us?
Kristen Kish: I think we all can get lost in what we do. We blur the line a little bit about what we do and who we are. I found that challenge. For a very long time, I wasn’t able to differentiate those two things. They kind of melded together. For so long, [I thought] “Cooking’s what I do. Cooking’s who I am.” But what ends up happening is the thing that differentiates you from all the other people who cook and that’s who they are – or whatever the profession is – is that the only differentiating factor is who YOU are. What brings you joy? The things that inspire you, your point of view.
Without being able to separate the two, you almost become part of this mashup of – I don’t want to say you get lost, because there’s certain ways of doing it where you definitely stand out in that way – but for me, I got lost in the shuffle a little bit. I wasn’t able to actually form who I am and what I wanted to say. It’s really important to be able to separate those two, and it really does start with the harmony and trying to find the healthful balance between who you are and what you do. They are two very different things that work together to create something even bigger. I think that’s a really important thing to remain in focus and not get lost in the actual job or profession that you did, that you have chosen.
Accidentally on Purpose
Kirk Bachmann: I’m so glad you used the word “harmony.” Isn’t that just a gorgeous word? I worked with a pastry chef years and years and years ago. That’s how he described what he was trying to achieve. This balance and harmony. I absolutely love this.
We gave away a little of this in the intro, but another big announcement is that you’ll be teaching and participating in a two-part virtual class at Escoffier. Many of our students will be excited. All of our students will be excited and active participants. As we get closer, we’ll send out more details, so students can register.
I bring that up now because it’s a beautiful segue to “Accidentally On Purpose: A Life Story Worth Telling.” What a title! April 22, 2025, coincidentally everybody, it’s the day that this episode will air!
But let me get to you. Stacy London states, “She’s written a recipe for a life worth living with purpose, curiosity, forgiveness, luck, and of course, what every recipe relies on, love.” Jose Andres mentioned, “Kristen has one of those larger-” I can see him saying it! – “She has one of those larger-than-life stories to tell, from her childhood to her journey as a rising chef, to being known by every single food person in America. It would be a fairy tale if it wasn’t all true.” So amazing, so beautiful.
What can readers expect when they dive into your memoir?
Kristen Kish: I’ve been asked this question a lot, and I will only continue to get asked this question through the release of the book and everything. If you haven’t realized this by now, I really try to feel the answer that I’m going to give. I’m just not going to give you an answer to give you an answer.
I relinquish control into the hands of the reader. I don’t know what people are going to get out of this. I don’t know. I don’t need to know ahead of time. I think that the beauty of a story being told – this book is obviously my stories and very specific details and nuances to experiences that I have lived through. That being said, it is not a singularly unique story in saying that no one else has ever journeyed through or felt the things that I have felt.
The beauty of a memoir, I feel, is that regardless of how I got to certain things and how I’ve come to reach certain decisions and points in my life, there are universal truths to all of our lives. We love; we feel heartache; we go through challenge; we have moments that really test the boundaries of who we are and where we want to go. All of these things, we know what that feels like. If I tell you, “Do you know what love feels like, or grief feels like, or challenge feels like?” you’re going to tell me, “Yes.” I don’t know if there’s a single person out there who would be like, “No, I don’t know what that feels like.”
When the book reaches whoever is reading it or listening to it, my expectation is that hopefully they just find something in there. That could be inspiration. That could be hope. That could be a lot of different heavy, hard-hitting feelings, or it could be something as simple as entertainment. That’s okay, too. Or they could close the book and feel nothing from it. That’s also okay. I don’t know. My hope is that you just take something away from it. That is the expectation in the book, that hopefully you can walk away with something from it.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s such a responsible and humble answer. I was going to ask next how you decide which moments in your life to share in the book, but hearing that answer kind of makes me think you relinquished some of that and let it happen. I’m going to use that term all day today, by the way.
Kristen Kish: I wanted the book to reach not just cooking people or chefs or people wanting to find the arc of how I ended up on television. It’s the stories that I feel are universal are the ones that went in there. It’s the ones that really taught me a lesson moving forward. There is purpose to what is in that book.
I’ve gone through with my writer and my editor. Certainly, there were chapters and paragraphs and stories that we took a step back and said, Sure, it’s a good story. It happened in my life, but is it adding value to the purpose of this story? In a lot of cases, sometimes it was no. That might be just a one-off story I tell on the book tour or if something prompts it. There were a lot of things that just didn’t make the book. Obviously, it’s 360-something pages. If I could fit my entire life, my 41 years, in 360-something pages, I would encourage myself to go out and do a little bit more. Obviously, we had to make it something that people could follow along and feel what was being written in there.
Kirk’s Wall of Rock Stars
Kirk Bachmann: I love it. I love it. Mine’s ordered.
I don’t know if you noticed my background is a little different now. I’m going to embarrass you. I set it up a little bit different. There’s your first book right there.
Kristen Kish: Awesome!
Kirk Bachmann: I’ve got Marco Pierre-White up there. Then I’ve a few albums. I’ve got Crash because my wife, Gretchen, loves Dave Matthews. I’ve got U2. I’ve got Bob Seeger. I’ve got Hotel California. This is my wall of rock stars. The last time we talked, we talked a little bit about how chefs in many ways love music, and they love motorcycles and moving fast. I just want you to know, you’re on the rock star background. I love it. It’s a beautiful story to tell.
We also know that you, Kristen, love to stay busy, between writing your memoir and your first book, hosting “Top Chef,” working with us and working with others. You have a full plate. What else is there? Can you give us any sneak peeks of what’s in the pipeline?
And I didn’t mention that I went to Arlo Grey about three or four weeks ago. They were so great. The food was amazing. It just kept coming. Everyone from the kitchen came out. It’s like, “We know somebody!” I just want you to know that they were on point. The wine was beautiful, too.
What’s Next for Kristen?
Kristen Kish: Well, good.
I think there is a fine line. I stay busy. I’ve learned what it feels like to stay busy to avoid things. I’ve learned what it means that I am busy because of really great things that add value to my life. I made that transition. In 2020, I really learned what it meant to stop. The brakes, screeching halt, and then I started to reassess.
My life is full. I’m very, very grateful to have a very full life professionally and personally, but I will say, I have slowed down. I have found the excitement, almost, in the steadiness of it all. I’m busy, and it’s steady, but with really great things that I find add great purpose and value to my life.
What’s next? Yeah. I don’t know; let’s just try to fit it in there. Let’s try to open another restaurant because that sounds great.
Kirk Bachmann: Yay!
Kristen Kish: We’re hoping for 2025, TBD, as we know how restaurants go and timing. We are deep into the planning stages, so that’s happening.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s great.
Kristen Kish: I will say, I do want to shout out [to] all the support and the people in my life because, obviously, I can’t do this all by myself. I’m able to stay busy and do the things because I have a lot of great people to work with that help keep things moving.
We’re going to focus on the restaurant. Of course, there’s another filming of “Top Chef” this year that will start again in the summertime. We’ll get that one going.
The book is a really big focus for this year and making sure this goes out. We do everything we can to make sure it’s promoted.
Patience and Grace
Kirk Bachmann: So exciting. So exciting. We spend a lot of time helping our students understand front of the house, back of the house. We have a lot of business focus in certain parts of our curriculum. I look at your body of work and your life. The word entrepreneur pops up. In many ways, you’re an entrepreneur. If you had to give one tip to students – and I say this all the time, what they don’t see is the work. They don’t see the body of work leading up to us having this conversation. I think I know what you’re going to say, but what’s that one tip for that young person who sees you and is inspired and wants to follow a similar journey? What should they keep in mind?
Kristen Kish: That the way I did it is not the way that you need to do it.
Kirk Bachmann: I knew you were going to say that.
Kristen Kish: There’s a lot of patience and grace that you have to give yourself. I certainly wasn’t on a linear path. I’m still not on a linear path. Every opportunity and experience that I choose for myself or otherwise is presented to me, there is something to learn within each of these stepping stones. One step leads to the next leads to the next, but you don’t know what’s going to happen and all the arms that are going to come off of that next step.
You might feel like…and it’s the same way because I was this way. When I was younger, I looked at the executive chef up in that really great restaurant. I was like, “Oh my God! How do I get there? How do I do that?” I was trying to find a fast track to get me that title, that job, get me in that space. What ended up happening is that I was so hyper-focused on that one point at the top of the mountain that all the other stuff between where I was and where that person was, all that other stuff, I missed completely. I don’t know how they got up there. I don’t know how you earn something like that. I don’t know the lessons that were learned from Point A to Point Z.
My one true piece of advice is patience, not only with the process, but with yourself.
Kirk Bachmann: Perfect. I have to write that down because I’m going to take that lesson myself! Instagram! You know, I follow you. I’ve followed you for a long time. I’ve never really paid attention, but it’s @KristenLKish. L.
Kristen Kish: Yes.
Kristen Kish’s Current Ultimate Craving
Kirk Bachmann: Perfect. Perfect. I’m going to send all of our students there and all of our listeners there.
Before I let you sneak away, but I’ve asked once before, some time has passed. Chef, what is the Ultimate Dish?
Kristen Kish: I’m pretty sure what I said last time, and I’m going to give you a different answer this time.
Kirk Bachmann: Yay!
Kristen Kish: One that I’m craving right now in this moment – and sometimes the ultimate dish is what you want right now in this moment – and for me, a griddled, pressed meatloaf sandwich.
Kirk Bachmann: You did not say that last time, but I love that answer.
Kristen Kish: I said chicken fingers last time, didn’t I?
Kirk Bachmann: You did.
Kristen Kish: Yeah. Right now, I could really use a meatloaf sandwich with extra ketchup, mayonnaise, pickles, diced white onion on a rye toasted bread.
Kirk Bachmann: And there you go. We’ve never had that one before. Are you going to have that today? Are you going to have that today? You’re going to find it!
Kristen Kish: Kirk, the only thing that would throw a wrench in the works is that I don’t make meatloaf, and I refuse to make meatloaf because my mother’s is the best. I’ve once tried before, and it was never the same. And I refuse. I’ll have to wait until [she can make me meatloaf.]
Kirk Bachmann: That’s respect. That’s respect for the craft, right there.
Kristen Kish, thank you. Thank you. Congratulations on all the success. Can’t wait to see you again. We’ll be watching. Thanks for being our friend.
Kristen Kish: Thank you. Thank you.
Kirk Bachmann: Thank you for listening to the Ultimate Dish podcast, brought to you by Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts. Visit escoffier.edu/podcast to find any materials mentioned during the podcast, including notes, links and other resources. And if you can, please leave us a rating on Apple or Spotify, and subscribe to support our show. This helps us reach more aspiring individuals ready to take the next step toward their dream careers. Thanks for listening.