The Ultimate Dish
The Ultimate Dish
Eden Grinshpan on Letting Go of Perfection and Cooking with Joy
In today's episode, we chat with Eden Grinshpan, TV food personality, cookbook author, and beloved host of Top Chef Canada.
Eden opens up about what it really means to follow your curiosity and trust where it leads. Her story starts at Le Cordon Bleu in London and winds through Europe, India, Southeast Asia, and Israel—each stop adding new flavor to how she sees food and the people behind it. She shares the unexpected moments that shaped her career: the phone call that landed her Top Chef Canada, the restaurant that "only lasted a whole year" (and why she's proud of it), and the seven months in India that taught her food is a connector above all else. Eden talks about letting go of perfection, learning to cook with feeling instead of fear, and finding her voice both as a chef and as a person.
Join us as Eden reveals why vegetables deserve "main character energy," the power of condiments to transform any dish, her philosophy on entertaining (casual, bountiful, and happy), and introduces us to her latest cookbook, Tahini Baby—proving that veg-forward cooking should be exciting, not restrictive.
TRANSCRIPT
Kirk Bachmann: Hello everyone. My name is Kirk Bachmann, and welcome back to The Ultimate Dish! Today, we are thrilled to welcome Eden Grinshpan, TV food personality, cookbook author, and the beloved host of Top Chef Canada.
Eden’s journey is a masterclass in following your passion across continents and cultures. After earning her culinary degree at Le Cordon Bleu in London, she traveled and ate her way across Europe, India, Southeast Asia, and Israel, where she spent summers growing up. This exploration resulted in her culinary travel show for the Cooking Channel, Eden Eats, which she produced and hosted at just 23 years old.
Since 2017, Eden has been the host of Top Chef Canada, bringing her relatability, raw sincerity, [and] infectious goofiness to one of the culinary world’s most prestigious competitions. Eden is also the creator of the wildly popular online platform Eden Eats, known for her big, bold, veg-forward cooking that’s both approachable and absolutely delicious. Her first cookbook, Eating Out Loud, established her as a voice for joyful Middle Eastern and Mediterranean-inspired cooking.
Now, Eden is back with her highly anticipated second cookbook, Tahini Baby, which launched this past April. The book offers over 100 veg-based recipes that showcase her joyful, playful, and always forgiving – we’ll talk about that – approach to Middle Eastern and Mediterranean-inspired meals. Eden splits her time between Toronto and New York with her husband, Ido, and their two daughters, Ayv and Romi.
Get ready for a conversation about the magic of tahini, the art of hosting, and why veg-forward cooking is having its moment.
And there she is. Good morning! Good morning, good morning.
Eden Grinshpan: That was a beautiful introduction.
Kirk Bachmann: That was pretty good. We have to pick a couple of things apart. Right off the bat – and I wrote these down earlier – having its moment. I’m totally stealing that. I’m stealing it from you.
Eden Grinshpan: After this, can you send me that little [intro]? It just summed up my life so well. I’m still struggling to write a frickin’ regular bio for my website.
Veg-Forward Cooking
Kirk Bachmann: I just love it. Why is veg-forward cooking having its moment? That’s so beautiful.
Eden Grinshpan: You know what? It is, and I think it’s because people are just excited about seeing different ways to eat and cook veg. I think our knowledge behind it was very straightforward for a really long time. Obviously with health, world pollution, and overall, and budgets, people are starting to veer more and more into veg-forward cooking. Also, it’s feel-good food.
For me, this happened very organically over the last five years since I came out with my first book, Eating Out Loud. In my first book, I had to put together over a hundred recipes to describe the way I cook, my favorite food, and how I like to feed my family and friends. It just so happened to be very veg-forward. I was like, “Oh, this is clearly something that I am attracted to, something that I like to serve my friends.” My friends always complimented me on the simplicity but also the way I showcase vegetables with spices, condiments, and layering. When people started talking to me about those recipes, everyone was always really intrigued by my veg chapter, my salads, my dips. Also, again, the way I cook, contemporary Middle Eastern Mediterranean, those particular kinds of flavors and cuisines, are easily veg-, legume-, grain-forward.
Over the last five years, it was something that I just leaned into and focused on and wanted to celebrate even more. Tahini Baby was a no-brainer, and I just focused on making it completely vegetarian to showcase that nothing really felt like it was missing from the table when you would put together all these beautiful varieties of dishes.
Eating Out Loud
Kirk Bachmann: When you were talking about Eating Out Loud, the first thing that I didn’t think about earlier, what was that a metaphor for?
Eden Grinshpan: Oh, the title?
Kirk Bachmann: Yeah.
Eden Grinshpan: I really wanted that title to really showcase the way I cook, who I am, the way I entertain. I actually sat with my husband. I’ll never forget: we were eating at Cafe Mogador in Williamsburg. We were workshopping the title. I feel like “eating” just felt like it made sense with Eden Eats. We’re not grazing. We’re not tasting. We’re eating. We’re enjoying. We’re eating.
Ido [said,] “Let’s use words that describe you and describe the way you cook and the way you entertain.” I have never in my life – I am still looking for this at almost the age of forty – found my indoor voice. I think that really translates to the way I connect with people and the way I cook for people. So “loud” was very much a word that we kept coming back to. When we started saying “out loud,” we’re not hiding. We’re bold. This is going to be bold cooking. This is a bold way. You’re not being precious or perfect. We’re being bold, we’re being loud, and we’re celebrating. And we’re just eating. I talk about it in the intro. “Your pants better be unbuttoned.” It’s licking your face a little. That just really summed up who I am and how I do things.
Kirk Bachmann: I think it jumped off the page for me a little bit, too, because I grew up in a European household [where] dining was time for family, but it was also time to sit up straight and keep your elbows off the table. You chewed with your mouth closed. My fourteen-year-old boy, who is a sophomore in high school, he’s a monster. He’s over six feet tall, 185 pounds. He eats loud.
I’m always like – his name is Joseph Henry – “You’re eating with your mouth open.”
He’s like, “Dad, it’s so good!” Gretchen cooks very plant-forward at the house. We celebrate at the dinner table much like you’re talking about, but we eat loud. We eat out loud.
Eden Grinshpan: So do we.
Kirk Bachmann: You can see the joy of a great salad or a crunchy pepper or something.
Eden Grinshpan: It’s funny because my husband grew up in a German household where manners were everything. I grew up dancing around the dinner table with my [family].
Kirk Bachmann: It’s identical to my family.
Eden Grinshpan: Literally putting on performances. Dinnertime was our time to connect and to perform. We were always just wild and free, obviously not in a crazy way, but it was always our safe space to express ourselves and be loud and excited. Food was always something we all loved. We loved to eat. I don’t know. It felt right.
Be Human
Kirk Bachmann: I love that. We were talking before the show started about this thing, right? [*holds up a phone*] That’s the one rule that Gretchen has. We just pause from these for a bit so that the dinner table can be a celebration. We’re all running a million miles an hour, and it’s the one time we can find out why Joseph Henry got a C in French and why Grayson wants to skip gymnastics and all that kind of stuff.
A forgiving approach to cooking. What does that mean? Giving yourself grace to some degree?
Eden Grinshpan: A hundred percent. I feel, especially…. Listen, I went to Le Cordon Bleu. I have this amazing – as you said earlier – chance to train under incredible chefs. I’ve worked in kitchens, and I absolutely love and respect the industry. I also felt sometimes, though, that it really stopped me from being able to really express. Sometimes, not being perfect when I didn’t cook a certain way, or it didn’t feel technical. I think the way my food has evolved over the last ten years, even more, is more of a relatable, home-style way of cooking. I find that a lot of people don’t take chances because they’re afraid it’s not going to turn out perfect, or they don’t have every spice, so they can’t make that recipe.
Cooking is an expression. I wouldn’t put baking into this category, but cooking, you have more flexibility to play. I think, for me, telling people that I don’t always get it perfect, or sometimes I mess up, it gives them that reassurance that it’s okay to take the chance even if it’s not going to be perfect. For me, that’s really important because you have to try it to learn. You have to make it to understand.
Listen, I’m a mom of two. I don’t have all the time in the world to get everything perfect. You have to sometimes use the shortcuts, get a little messy, and sometimes-
Kirk Bachmann: And that’s okay.
Eden Grinshpan: I think that’s actually something to really embrace. We’re all human beings. I’m trying to make it fun, make it light, and as approachable as possible. Always.
Kirk Bachmann: I love that. A little serendipitous history between the two of us. I want to talk about Escoffier for just one second because you said something really impactful just a second ago. You said that your cooking has evolved. Interestingly enough, a hundred years ago August Escoffier said, and I quote, “Cooking, like fashion, must evolve with time and take into account the changes in people’s lives.” I’m getting chills because that’s exactly what you’re relating to.
What’s really interesting is, as I talked about in the beginning, I spent twenty years with that Le Cordon Bleu organization, and the focus was on techniques. That’s what I love. The same with Escoffier. The focus is on the techniques, and they can be applied to any item, any culture, any cuisine. What we have to focus on is the quality and the celebration around the food, today maybe even more than ever before, knowing where that food comes from. Know a local farmer.
It’s funny: one of the first things I do often is I’ll go into the classroom, and I’ll say, “Hey! Do you guys know where those carrots came from?” And they’ll say, “Whole Foods.” I’ll say, “Well, not the answer I’m looking for.” We’ll teach you a little bit about where the things come from.
Gosh, can you tell that I’m really, really excited to have you on the show today. We’re going to talk about Tahini Baby. What a name! I know it’s been out for a few months, but Wow! In my mind, hot off the press. But can I just say, Eden, really quickly: your social media is adorable. It’s infectious. It’s intoxicating because I can see the joy, I can see the staircase. I can see your personality and your family’s personality coming through. It’s not staged, as you mentioned. It’s not the perfect shot. It’s reality. It’s genuine. It’s honest.
Eden Grinshpan: I’m the worst liar. Now that I talk about it, I’d be the worst actor. I can’t lie.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s good! Congratulations, though, on that because I know that’s you. That’s you staying honest with yourself. You’ve been doing this for a long time.
By the way, this is Toronto, right, not New York. Yeah. I’m not stalking you, I promise, but I do follow.
Eden Grinshpan: I do want to go back. You were talking about the techniques you learned. When I went to Le Cordon Bleu, I knew literally nothing. I was so nervous because I was like, “How can I go to culinary school and have no background in food and cooking?” Exactly what you said. I actually feel very lucky because I got to go in that really important phase in my career in the space because I got to get those techniques ingrained in me right off the bat. That’s something that whether or not I pay attention to it, it’s just part of who I am in this kitchen and how I cook.
Kirk Bachmann: It’s muscle memory. Yeah.
Eden Grinshpan: I will always have that experience and those techniques and those tips basically ingrained. That’s the backbone of everything I’m doing in the kitchen. That’s where a lot of that confidence comes from. Also, what you said, too, it’s the ten years-plus of experience where it’s the evolution of who you are as cook and what your culinary voice is. What interests you, and based off of what you do in your life, it completely transforms the food that you serve. I think it’s really interesting.
I have evolved completely as a cook from eighteen to thirty-nine. It’s exciting because your level of expertise just shifts. It’s cool.
The Journey from Le Cordon Bleu to Top Chef
Kirk Bachmann: And you’re always learning. I imagine, as busy as you are, as busy as many thought-leaders in the space are, to write a book is a labor of love, but it’s also a lot of work. It’s a lot of work. I’ve always felt that when you’re learning, you’re the best teacher you’ve ever been. It all comes together. “I’m going to put this together to share my story, but I’m learning also as I go through it.”
Let’s talk a little bit about you. You’re the host of Top Chef Canada. We talked earlier that our Chef-in-Residence here at Escoffier is Kristen Kish, who does the same here in the States. What a beautiful connection point. I absolutely love it. What’s it like, if you can say, being part of the Top Chef family?
Eden Grinshpan: Oh my God!
Kirk Bachmann: And where did that come from? I don’t know the story.
Eden Grinshpan: It’s a journey. It’s a journey I’ll try to keep short and sweet with the important–
Kirk Bachmann: I have all day.
Eden Grinshpan: I do want to just say, Kristen! I’m just so obsessed with her. Aside from just being incredibly talented, she is so genuine and down to earth and just an awesome person. We’ve become good friends. I’ve been on Top Chef, and she’s been on Top Chef Canada. We’ve had some really fun times. She’s just really special, just like, wow!
Kirk Bachmann: That’s so great.
Eden Grinshpan: I’ve been a part of Top Chef Canada since Season Five. Season Twelve is currently airing.
Kirk Bachmann: Oh my goodness!
Eden Grinshpan: It has been truly one of the greatest honors of my personal career and one of the biggest things I’ve been able to do and one of the best gigs that I get to do, honestly.
I went to Le Cordon Bleu when I was eighteen years old. I did a lot of backpacking, as you said. I moved to New York City, and ended up quickly getting into the television industry. I created a show with a friend of mine. It was called Eden Eats. It was a food and travel show where we traveled around America, we met people who immigrated from all over the world, and we learned about their stories. We saw how they recreated their culture and customs through food in America. It was a travel series, and it was so fun. Unscripted. Travel. Kind of Anthony Bourdain-style, but in America. That was my biggest dream when I started in this industry, and then it happened, which was insane.
After that, I sold another show to the cooking channel called Log On and Eat with Eden. It was so ahead of the time. The reason I say that was because it was about online food influencers and learning about their lives. We couldn’t find any of these online food influencers because it was Facebook. We were on Facebook looking for them.
Anyways, after that I was on this circuit of guest hosting on different food competitions shows. I judged Iron Chef America. I was on Beat Bobby Flay. I was a judge on Donut Showdown, Sugar Showdown. I am, obviously, originally from Toronto Canada, and I got a call about being a judge on Chopped: Canada.
Eventually, I got a call from a producer. He said, “Listen, we’re bringing Top Chef Canada back. We want to have you come in and read some lines for us.” I was literally in shock.
I was like, “Moi?”
They were like, “Yes, you.”
I was like, “Before I can, I need you to know a couple things about me.” I warned them before I even went in and auditioned. “This is who I am. I’m a little bit like this.”
They were like, “Just come in. Just come in.”
I booked the gig. I swear, every time they renew the season and we walk onto set, it is a real pinch-me moment. It’s surreal. I don’t know if you’ve seen it. It’s actually, unfortunately, quite hard to find in the States. I told my producers, “We need to find a way to show this.” It would be so amazing, but it’s very similar in quality to Top Chef.
We get chefs coming in from all across Canada to compete for the title and a really big prize. Then we have all these incredible guests come in from all over. We have Daniel Boulud. We have Andy Baraghani, Kristen Kish, Gail Simmons. We have the best of the best come in from the US as well to judge. It’s a really big opportunity. It is the most prestigious culinary competition in Canada. And I get to taste all their food!
Kirk Bachmann: What is that energy like because you’ve got to be on point every single time. Yes, taste the food. There’s a lot of emotion. I always say to very successful people that what our listeners often don’t see and understand is all the work that went into that moment. That moment when you’re just doing your thing. What is that energy like on the stage? I’m sure you see some tears, too, right?
Eden Grinshpan: Oh. This particular season, Episode Two airs tonight of Season Twelve, which is hilarious that we’re even talking.
Kirk Bachmann: Oh isn’t that something? Wow! Wow.
Top Chef and Its Influence
Eden Grinshpan: I think this is the most emotional season yet. Especially being the host, I’m on set every day. I get to be a part of this entire process from beginning to end. Obviously, I’m in charge of delivering the line when we cut a chef from the show.
First of all, it’s a huge production. There’s so many cameras. I don’t think a lot of people know that the hours are pretty insane. These chefs, they leave their lives for a nice chunk of time: their jobs, their families. They’re staying in a place where they are not with anyone but each other. When I tell them they have fifteen minutes to cook that quick fire dish, they have fifteen minutes to cook that quick fire dish. That’s not a lot of time. That’s not a lot of time to come in and win these amazing prizes to get to the next level. There’s so much pressure. These chefs are the best in the country. It’s not about the fact that they can’t do it. The competition is just really, really hard.
Also, when they come into this kitchen, they’ve never cooked in this kitchen. They’ve never cooked under television lights. They’ve never cooked in front of twenty cameras. They’ve never cooked for a lot of these chefs. These people, when these guests come in, the chefs are freaking out. When you cook for Daniel Boulud, it’s a really big deal.
Kirk Bachmann: Unbelievable.
Eden Grinshpan: So many iconic chefs have come in and over the course of the last seven years, and it’s been a big deal for most of these chefs who are competing. It’s an amazing thing to watch, and it’s an incredible thing to be a part of.
Kirk Bachmann: You mentioned pressure and the pressure that you’re seeing. Fifteen minutes is fifteen minutes. There’s no smoke and mirrors. This isn’t edited for television; this is real. This is a tough question, probably unfair. Do you have a philosophy around hosting and how you approach this? Does it change? As the host, as the person who’s keeping it calm to some degree, keeping it positive to some degree.
Eden Grinshpan: Yeah. I think that it’s a combination of delivering the lines the way I have to. I have to be very clear, very straightforward, but there’s always going to be…. I always end up bringing some sort of lightness. They’re so stressed. There’s so much pressure. There’s so much on the line. I have always been a goofball. I can’t take myself too seriously. I will make the biggest food of myself, always, to make everyone else around me feel light and comfortable. I think that’s something I’ve leaned on in my career.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s the answer I thought you were going to give. If you were yourself, I imagine, at least to some of these contestants, it doesn’t make it any easier, but it makes it more real.
Eden Grinshpan: But I also think it’s my job to make them feel comfortable. It’s not something I’ve ever really thought too hard about. I think it’s just because naturally, it’s how I am with all people around me, whether or not there are cameras. I’m always aware of that.
So when we’re on set, I may be standing far away, but I’m maintaining eye contact. I’m always smiling. I want them to know that I’m always going to be there.
Kirk Bachmann: It’s real. I’m comfortable! I’m super comfortable today.
Eden Grinshpan: I hope so.
Kirk Bachmann: You’ve made me so comfortable.
You know, when it comes to Top Chef and your own cooking, which continues to evolve, and your own perspective on the industry over all these seasons, all these people that you’ve met and who have impacted your life in some way, it’s kind of a family to some degree. Has it changed or created some sort of perspective for you on this industry? These are the best of the best. They’re trying to be even better and further their careers. How has that show influenced the way that you view this industry?
Eden Grinshpan: Oh, I think it’s been very positive. Listen, we’re all people. We’re all human beings. We all want to do our best. We’re all trying our best. Especially when you’re a chef, I think about the sacrifice that is required. Especially to see where these chefs are in their careers. I know how much time and energy they take in their day-to-day lives to make these restaurants and businesses function and be successful. That’s so much. That’s something that I think is so beautiful, too, about this industry. It’s such a creative outlet. It’s so personal to each person. They have a story. They have a POV that they’re trying to share.
I think, if anything, it makes it feel that I hope this show makes people feel so much more. It’s this relatable level. They are seeing a deeper look into how these chefs work, what their stories are. You get a better look into the industry.
For me, I think it just makes everything – I don’t know what the word is. Before I worked in television, I worked in the industry. You go to work, you do your job, and you see the other chefs working, and they’re doing their jobs. You don’t really get the time, sometimes, to really get to know. In this particular industry and this part of it, I really do get to hear the stories. It just makes it so much more relatable.
Advice and Opportunities
Kirk Bachmann: Yeah. And real.
Along those lines, again, people will listen to this and they’ll love your success and they’ll want to do what you did. Is there any advice you might give to someone who was you several years ago?
Eden Grinshpan: To get into this industry?
Kirk Bachmann: Or even to just have a good experience. Maybe to experience some success, but just to have a good experience.
Eden Grinshpan: It’s so interesting because when I started – I feel like I sound so much older than I am! – when I started twenty years ago.
Kirk Bachmann: Oh my gosh!
Eden Grinshpan: For real, when I started in this industry, there weren’t that many different kinds of job opportunities in the culinary space. You are either going to be a chef in a kitchen, or maybe have a catering company. There are so many different things you can do with a culinary degree now.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s such a good point.
Eden Grinshpan: So many different ways to just be a part of the conversation. I think it’s really about focusing on what that is. Food stylist. Food photographer. Work in books. There are literally so many different things that you can do. Make videos. Whatever. For your Instagram. There are so many different ways to celebrate food and be a part of the conversation.
For me, I think the advice I would give myself if I was starting – and I think I did it on some level, but I don’t think I realized it in the moment – is you really have to find out what you’re really passionate about. It’s good to know what’s going on around you, but it’s also really important to stay true to who you are and kind of put the blinders up a little bit. You have to put a hundred and twenty percent into whatever that is. It’s really hard, especially these days, with your phone and seeing what your peers are working on, and seeing their highlight reels, and getting intimidated, or changing your idea because you see that it worked for someone else. “Maybe I should do this instead.” It’s so easy to get off track. If anything, figure out your shtick and put your blinders on and just really put your head down. Believe in it.
Culinary Wanderlust
Kirk Bachmann: That’s going to be such a highlight reel that we’re going to steal from this show because I love how you presented that through your lens. What advice you would give to yourself twenty years ago. Really beautiful.
It’s interesting. We offer so many different programs now. Twenty years ago, you’re right: you’re either going to be a cuisine chef, or you’re going to be a pastry chef. That’s all that was out there. Today, we offer studies in food photography and entrepreneurship, and hospitality. So many different ways that you can find your voice in this place, and the craft of cooking, if you will.
I want to jump back to your culinary wanderlust, if you will. It’s really fascinating. It wasn’t that long ago. You took a leap of faith. As an eighteen-year-old, you went to London, went to Le Cordon Bleu, and then you traveled to Europe, and India, and Southeast Asia, and Israel. First, I’d love to just hear how much you loved London. What stood out? What was the first thing you ate? Was it fish and chips? Beautiful city. What was that like for an eighteen-year-old?
Eden Grinshpan: That’s so tough. First of all, I was legal drinking age. What do you think I did?
Kirk Bachmann: Let’s just cut to the chase here! Okay. Let’s go to the pubs. There you go.
Eden Grinshpan: All I’m going to say is I can never drink cider ever again. Ever again! It’s done!
It was a while ago. I did love living in London. It was my first time living away from my family. I was exploring those freedoms a lot more. I also feel like the culinary scene in London has just blossomed so aggressively. When I went there, everyone was like, “You’re going to London to learn how to cook? What are they eating?” It was back then when it was more like fish, chips…and it was just starting to evolve.
It’s actually really interesting. Oh my God! When I went to Le Cordon Blue, I worked in a bunch of different restaurants, and it was right next to this Italian restaurant where Gennaro Contaldo was giving cooking classes. That is Jamie Oliver’s teacher.
Kirk Bachmann: Oh my goodness!
Eden Grinshpan: Do you know who that is?
Kirk Bachmann: Now that you just said that. Yes.
Eden Grinshpan: He’s an incredibly passionate, Italian man. So talented. I remember, I got a job helping prep his cooking classes or something. There are things that I’m thinking about. I haven’t thought about this in so long! I remember, I would do really interesting things. There was this really cool [place]. It’s still around. It’s called La Fromagerie. For the longest time, I wanted to open up this specialty cheese shop, and it was completely inspired by this store. They would import all these beautiful jams and preserves from all over Europe, fresh breads, and had this cheese room that was unbelievable. It’s still there, so you should check it out. It’s right off of Marylebone.
Kirk Bachmann: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn’t it amazing, as a culinary student, you can go around the city and find cheese shops and tea shops and bread stores? All of this. If you go to school for math, there’s no math stores.
Eden Grinshpan: No, but that’s what makes it so exciting. Ottolenghi. I remember going and eating at Ottolenghi and I was blown away. This is the beautiful part about being in this industry.
First of all, I graduated culinary school, and then I called my parents and was like, “I need to backpack.” I was interested in backpacking because I wanted to see the world, but I also wanted to learn about the food. I feel like you learn so much about a culture and country when you eat the food.
Kirk Bachmann: Through their food.
Eden Grinshpan: Learn about the food. I would take cooking classes in India. I took a Tibetan cooking class in Dharamshala.
Kirk Bachmann: Oh wow!
Eden Grinshpan: Really! I felt like that immersed me even closer.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s what I was going to ask next. Did you already have a plan? “I’m going to London. I’m going to go to Cordon Bleu, and then I’m going to see the world.” Or were you inspired while studying? “I need to grab a backpack and I need to see these cultures and experience this before I become a line cook or something like that.”
Eden Grinshpan: Literally, nothing in my life has been planned. Nothing.
Kirk Bachmann: I should have known.
Eden Grinshpan: That’s why I explain. I was like, “I don’t want to go to university.” My dad planted this seed. He said, “You should go to culinary school.” I was like, “That’s –
Kirk Bachmann: That’s great! Wow!
Eden Grinshpan: And he goes, “You should go to Le Cordon Bleu in London.” He suggested it!
Kirk Bachmann: No way!
Eden Grinshpan: There were no other options.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s amazing.
Eden Grinshpan: He was like, “Go to Le Cordon Bleu in London.” I was like, “Bye-eee!”
Kirk Bachmann: I’m going. I’m going.
Eden Grinshpan: Left the house. Lived there for two years. I worked in kitchens. While I was there, I was traveling in Europe. I went to Prague for a weekend. I went to Italy. Because my eyes were opened to food on a different level because of culinary school – I’m learning about spices and I studied pastry and cuisine – so I was learning about everything. When I was traveling, I was exploring, I was taking note, and I was looking at things differently.
When I graduated culinary school, I feel like the travel bug really hit me. I loved that feeling of being in new environments and trying new foods. Seeing new things. I didn’t know. Should I work in kitchens? What should I do? My sister was actually the one. She enrolled in this travel program called “Leap Now,” I think.
She was like, “I’m going to go to Central America with them. Why don’t you come?”
I was like, “Oh, sure! Let’s go.”
Kirk Bachmann: I’m in.
How India Changed Eden’s Life
Eden Grinshpan: We enrolled. Then we paid a deposit. Then they were like, “We actually are so sorry, we can’t let siblings go together.” It’s one of these “explore the world and get to know yourself” kind of trips.
I was like, “Great. I paid a deposit. Where else do you go?” They were like, the first place they mentioned was India. I was like, “I don’t need to hear anything else. We’re going to India.”
I ended up going with several strangers. I didn’t know anyone. I got on a plane, went to San Francisco, met seven people. Then they took us to India. It was one of those trips where they weren’t like, “Oh, we’re going to this city.” They were like, “We’re going to go. We’re going to immerse you in all these different things.” I lived with different families in different cities. For instance, we started in Dharamshala, which is where all the Tibetan refugees are. I lived in the Dalai Lama’s temple with a family for two weeks. Every day I would eat lunch with eight monks. We would have butter tea. It was the craziest experience, and so amazing.
Then I would learn about Ashtanga Yoga. Then I took a Tibetan cooking class. After we left there, we went to Rishikesh, and we volunteered at an orphanage called Ramana’s Garden. We did a trek through the base of the Himalayas. It was amazing. We went to Varanasi, and I lived with another family. I volunteered at Mother Theresa’s hospice. This trip completely changed my life. One hundred percent shaped the person I am today. This trip. This one trip.
I just fell in love. My father, he was born in Israel. After I went to India, I was like, “I’m going to go to Israel. I’m going to work and live with my cousin.” I moved there. I worked in kitchens. I saved up, and then I went back to India. I spent almost seven months there.
I went back to that orphanage in Rishikesh, and I was like, “I’m going to volunteer for an extended period of time.” They had this cafe. It wasn’t being run. I was like, “I just graduated culinary school. I could get this up and running for you. Then you could have this business. Then you can have this stream of money coming in.” So I reopened up the cafe for this orphanage. My dad had this idea. My dad is very creative, clearly. He was like, “Oh me, go buy a camera and film this.”
I was like, “Dad! I’m so busy. I have so many things to do in the cafe!”
He’s like, “Just do it.” So I ended up grabbing a camera, and I started filming it. Fast forward. After I moved to New York, we ended up getting it cut into a sizzle reel. That reel was how I got into television.
Kirk Bachmann: I just love it. I love the support of your family, of your father. There’s so many things. I’m way off script. I just want to mention little hints that you give me. You mentioned a second ago that you studied both pastry and cuisine at Le Cordon Bleu. I want people to understand the significance of that. The way their curriculum is set up, you could either do pastry or you could do culinary, but it sounds like you achieved what they call the “grand diplôme,” which is not easy to do. Congratulations on that. You’re so humble, you didn’t even emphasize that, but I’m going to. It’s very, very difficult to do that.
You touched on it just a little bit, but it’s a beautiful thing that you did. It sort of highlights and demonstrates who you are as a human being. I read about your time with the orphanage, Ramana’s Garden, but the fact that you re-opened a cafe not for your own goals, but to help raise money and awareness for the orphanage, I think it’s absolutely spectacular. In this day and age, you and I talked before the show about how much time we spend on these things. That’s life, right there. I’m wondering, Eden, how did that experience [shape not] just your cooking, but also maybe your perspective on the power of food to help create change?
Eden Grinshpan: Wow! Actually, you know one thing that I really couldn’t believe when I got to India and I started working on the orphanage was I couldn’t believe how much money – even a little bit of money – could make such a big difference in that part of the world. As I said, I worked in kitchens. I saved up. This is money that I saved up. I felt like I was able to actually make such a big difference and a change. That was a very powerful feeling that one person could do that. I feel like I got really excited about that.
Also, the idea of re-opening the cafe was a no-brainer for me. I saw this beautiful space. I was like, “This should be hosting people. You should be bringing people in. You can make this work.” I felt like what that entire experience really, truly taught me was how one person can actually make a difference. I was very fortunate enough that I had the skill set, and I was able to cook and bake, and I could bring that to the space. It was very much a connecting thing.
Food is a connector. I always say that. Whatever project I worked on. It really connects. Even baking in the kitchen with the kids, those are really strong memories for me. We come from such different places, but we were in the kitchen baking together in that one moment. It was such a connecting, beautiful experience. Then we got to work on this project together. I don’t know. I think what I learned was that one person can actually do something really cool if given the opportunity. You can actually make a difference. Food is a really connecting, celebratory thing that can bring people together.
TV to Restaurants to TV Again
Kirk Bachmann: I love the term “connector.” It says it all.
You spent summers in Israel while you were growing up. Your food is clearly very influenced by Middle Eastern and Mediterranean flavors, which I adore as well.
When you came back to New York – all these tough questions – how did you translate those global experiences, like what you just explained?
Eden Grinshpan: I didn’t actually find my culinary voice for a little bit of time. I was working in television. I was working on these travel shows, and I was really focused on learning about different cuisine from all over the world. That was very much my focus for many years. It still is. I love it. That stuff really excites me. Going into a new grocery store, and people have different foods, going into new restaurants, trying new dishes. I’m like, “Where is this from? Tell me your story.” I love that.
After I sold my show, I was like, “I’m in television.” What happened was I felt very lucky. I was able to get an agent, and then I started understanding how this industry works. I’m waiting now to book another show. Interview and audition. I’m very goal-focused. I like to have projects in the works, and I like to stay really busy.
In between a gig, I was like, “I want to get back to the kitchen. I’m going to have a pop-up.” I was living in Williamsburg, and I ended up talking to a restaurant that I was a big fan of in Williamsburg, and I said, “Can I do a pop-up here? I’ll promote it on social media.” Yada yada. It was just after a recent trip that I had to Israel. I was very inspired by a lot of the flavors. I wanted to put my own twist and spin. That’s the other thing. It doesn’t matter where I travel to; I’ve always had this love for introducing people to new flavors and to new combinations, and just showcasing what I learned and what I saw.
I started playing around in the kitchen. Really what happened was I started to create my own style of reinterpreting a lot of the flavors that I love. I had a pop-up. It was very successful. They extended the pop-up, and I ended up going and competing in Burger Bash with one of the dishes that I served at the pop-up. I was like, “Well, this is exciting. There is a lot of positive feedback.” What I ended up doing – it really encouraged me to – check out the industry.
In between my television gigs, I ended up reaching out. I don’t know if you remember. There was a fast-casual concept in New York City called By Chloe. It was plant-based fast-casual. Anyways, I loved what they were doing, and I loved the fast-casual concept. I ended up emailing them. I was like, “I want to take this kind of cuisine and turn it into a fast-casual concept.” We ended up meeting, and we opened up a fast-casual restaurant called Dez. It was in Nolita. It lasted a whole year!
[Kirk Laughs] What?
Kirk Bachmann: You could have said that in a different way! It lasted a whole year! Yeah!
Eden Grinshpan: You know what, I want to say something. I learned so much.
Kirk Bachmann: So much. Yeah.
Eden Grinshpan: It’s still an incredibly positive experience. I wanted to actually say this before. You have to take chance. You have to take risk. You can’t be afraid of – I wouldn’t even call this failure, honestly.
Kirk Bachmann: No!
Eden Grinshpan: People are afraid if something closes. “You failed.” First of all, I got a book deal out of it, which was unbelievable. It’s because the food was really well received. As the executive chef of the restaurant, I felt very excited that the food – people loved it as much as I hoped they would. It’s just that the New York City restaurant industry is incredibly, obviously, competitive.
Kirk Bachmann: To even get a restaurant open in New York is an achievement. I tell my kids all the time, “Fail fast; learn faster. Period.”
Eden Grinshpan: I don’t think I’ll open a restaurant again – any time soon. I had an amazing experience. I loved my partner. We’re still friends. Everything’s been great. Nothing bad. It was just a really tricky thing to figure out.
Tahini Baby: For the Love of Condiments
Kirk Bachmann: Sure. Sure.
I want to be so respectful of your time. You’re so busy. We have to talk about Tahini Baby. The title alone makes me smile.
Eden Grinshpan: Let me grab the book. You see it.
Kirk Bachmann: Yeah, let’s get it on camera. Look at that! Look at that! Look at the smile. Tahini Baby! Over a hundred veg-based recipes. You describe them as joyful, playful, always forgiving. Tell us a little bit about the book, but what’s really interesting to me is that your family is plant-forward, but not one hundred percent vegetarian. You’ve kind of migrated to that mostly plant-based for a lot of reasons. The real key here, Eden, is how do you make great vegetable-forward cooking feel exciting versus restrictive? It’s always had this medicinal aura around it.
Eden Grinshpan: It’s so interesting because I feel like it just needs time and attention. It needs love. It can’t feel like a second thought. I feel like growing up, it was like, “Let’s eat chicken with some broccoli. Let’s eat chicken with some Brussels. Let’s eat chicken with this.” Don’t get me wrong; I’ll put chicken with potatoes and shallots and fennel and lemon and garlic. I’ll keep it with, but what I mean to say is, I think vegetables should be treated like a main protein, like you would a chicken. Sometimes you need to marinate. Sometimes you need to roast it low and slow. I’m a really big condiment person. Whether or not I’m eating plant-based, I feel condiments are like the best way to include flavor and depth, texture.
There’s a lot of layering, sometimes, to my dishes. It’s not about a crazy technique; it’s really so much about a flavor combination. If you look through my book, you’ll notice I talk a lot about spices. I lean heavily on spices. I find that they can impart so much personality on a dish. I use a lot of cheat ingredients, like preserved lemons. I give you some different ways to make it if you can’t find it, but for me that feels like a cheat ingredient. It’s got so much flavor, a pop of brightness, super lemony. You have that saltiness from it. When you add that, you create a dimension that just elevates whatever dish you put it on.
For me, what it comes down to is the simple techniques like knowing how to roast as well. I’m roasting at 500 degrees. Don’t overcrowd your pan. You want some caramelization. That’s another layer of depth and flavor. It’s really about simplifying the techniques, talking about them. What makes those little tweaks. What makes all the difference with those little points, and then layering over a lot of delicious yummy things that have love into them.
I’ll give you an example. This is actually a dish –
Kirk Bachmann: What’s your favorite condiment, while you’re looking for that?
Eden Grinshpan: I think it’s pretty obvious. The book is called Tahini Baby.
Kirk Bachmann: I set you up there. That’s the assist.
Eden Grinshpan: First of all, if you haven’t made a garlicky tahini, stop everything now and go and make yourself a big batch of garlicky tahini. Keep it in the fridge. Throw it on literally everything. Ever-y-thing!
Kirk Bachmann: That’s eating out loud! That’s eating out loud!
Eden Grinshpan: That’s eating out loud. That’s tahini, baby. First of all, nutty, rich. There’s body to it. It’s beautiful.
Kirk Bachmann: But healthy, too. Can you talk about that a little bit? The calcium, the anti-inflammatory, so important today. Antioxidants.
Eden Grinshpan: It’s incredible. It’s a good source of protein, which I was assuming everyone who is going to be eating more veg-forward is interested in knowing. A great source of calcium, magnesium, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant. I call it a super food because you get so much from this one condiment. Tahini will save the day.
Kirk Bachmann: Will save the day.
Eden Grinshpan: Will save the day. I use a lot of yogurt, tzatziki, labena which is a strained, thick yogurt, super tangy, gorgeous body. Also, both of those – I’m not this person – but a great source of protein as well. I have celery zhug and my other book, just regular zhug, which is a Yemen hot sauce. I love heat.
Kirk Bachmann: We’re going to put a link to the book when we post the chat.
Eden Grinshpan: I have my fast and fresh harissa. Another thing that separates this book from my other book is I had another baby before this one came out. I’ve had less time. For me, trying to find cheat versions of things was very important because I didn’t want to lose out on flavor. I wanted to get food on the table faster. It’s really about finding those really cheat ways of doing things. This is another favorite. This is my favorite because it’s so simple, but the flavor and the impact that you get from adding this, it’s my grated tomato for everything. You literally grate fresh tomatoes, and then you add garlic, chili, olive oil, salt. Put that on everything. Happiness.
Mom’s Cheesecake
Kirk Bachmann: Happiness. Talk about your mom’s cheesecake.
Eden Grinshpan: My mom’s cheesecake! Okay. I’ve been getting asked about this cheesecake because I talk about it every time. Over the last couple of years on my Instagram. Everyone’s like, “Hey, what is this cheesecake?” I was like, “I am going to keep that recipe for my next book.” Which I did. It’s an Austrian-style baked cheesecake, and the way you need to eat it is standing in front of the fridge, taking a slice, and eating it basically like a sandwich. No plate required. No utensils. Slice off a chunk of that cheesecake, stand in your fridge, and just eat it. It will be gone within seconds because it’s so delicious.
Eden Grinshpan: It’s not one of those creamy New York-style cheesecakes. This is very light.
Kirk Bachmann: I love it.
Kirk Bachmann: The name of our show here is The Ultimate Dish. We’ve had a lovely chat, the final question is what is the ultimate dish?
Eden Grinshpan: I’m not going to say one dish. I’m going to say a table. For me, sitting down to a table of salads, fresh pita, and kebabs.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s such a good answer. What a great chat.
Eden Grinshpan: This has been so fun. I really appreciate it.
Kirk Bachmann: Thank you for listening to the Ultimate Dish podcast, brought to you by Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts. Visit escoffier.edu/podcast to find any materials mentioned during the podcast, including notes, links and other resources. And if you can, please leave us a rating on Apple or Spotify, and subscribe to support our show. This helps us reach more aspiring individuals ready to take the next step toward their dream careers. Thanks for listening.